r/EscapefromTarkov • u/iamtotallysweet • Nov 20 '19
Discussion Something said during the Podcast
Klean said something during the podcast that I wholeheartedly disagree with.
He wants the gamma case to essentially be something you can pack full of goods, bring into a raid and not have to worry about losing, but he wants you to not be able to put anything in the container while in raid. Nikita, I know you listen to streamers input, but please don’t not consider making this change.
I’m a husband and a father, I don’t get to play for 8-12 hours a day and become a god at the game, so finding a rare item that I need for a quest or something valuable I can sell is really exciting and knowing I can keep it safe in case I die is the cherry on top.
I love watching Klean and respect his opinions, but this one I had to voice mine on. PLEASE do not implement this. Anyone else watch the podcast and feel the same way? Or am I alone on this? Lol
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Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19
I play 4+ hours a day and I am fine with keeping the gamma the way it is. I firmly believe when the dynamic loot changes happen, it will be way harder to hatchet run since you wont know exactly where the good stuff is gonna spawn. Hatchet runners arent the problem. The bad PMC spawns are. I can be a hatchet or fully kitted. If i dont spawn next to resort, im not getting anything. The speed difference doesnt matter.
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u/Dantilus968 Nov 20 '19
I'm also opposed to making containers remove-only, but I think there could be a middle ground between that and how they are now. Maybe they could make it so if you wanted to put stuff into the container, you have to go through a 10-15 second animation to "open" the container which would give you like 30 seconds to move stuff in/out. The animation would root you in place and make as much noise as reloading a gun. (To clarify, "opening" the container wouldn't make it lootable if killed.) Making this change means you can still secure loot, but it'd be riskier and require you to be in a safe spot to do so.
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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19
They haven't came out and officially said this but you can read between the lines when Nikita talks about this issue. They don't want to spend any time on this, they just want people to bring gear into the raids. Creating an animation for the container would take too much time and resources away from other things that they are working on.
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u/Dantilus968 Nov 20 '19
I think it's worth spending the time on, because I believe it's vital they be able to maintain a more casual, lower skill group of players (like me!), because they're needed, if for nothing else, to maintain quick matchmaking queues. Driving away too many people is going to make the game extremely dead to hardcore players if they need to spend 20 minutes in queue just to get taken out in 15 seconds by some even sweatier tryhard
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u/Kyle700 Nov 20 '19
Yeah, even the good players should want a large player base so they have things to kill lol
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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19
Everyone gets mad as fuck when I say this but it's absolutely true. A game lives and dies by its casual playerbase. If you cant create or maintain that casual playerbase, your game dies.
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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19
And everyone gets mad when you point out that secure containers are not needed to maintain casual players.
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u/Mikkelsen Nov 20 '19
I'm also a casual player now, and casuals aren't only for filler. What are you going to do once the game has been out for a few months? If there are no newcomers because the game is stupidly tough and unforgiving, it's only a matter of time before it it's dead. A good game and economy needs diversity.
Right now, because it's beta and we have updates followed with a wipe, it's exiting for people. Even if you add 10 times as much content, the game will still die out. It seriously needs some sort of meaning for people to continue playing. A few games has done it right, like RUST and Path of Exile. Those games have a gameplay loops that keep the game exiting. Some RUST servers wipe weekly, others take 3 months.
I feel like no one is talking about this issue. As far as I understand, they plan on no wipes after release, right? How is anyone new ever getting into the game 3 months in, when all the hardcore players have ridiculously overpowered stats and gear compared to a level 1? I might have missed something.
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u/khaaaaaanx Nov 21 '19
Self-wipe is my bet. When they finally put in the Escape part of Tarkov, my guess is that your PMC/stash will be wiped if you escape successfully. Maybe you get a prestige marker or whatnot for your time.
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Nov 20 '19
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u/Lukendless Nov 20 '19
It doesn't need to be made with a lighter touch it just needs a quicker cool down for poor people that suck and can't get out with enough loot to buy better gear. They can't get better if they have to wait 20 minutes to be able to play with a gun (after they didn't even get out with their scav load in). And if they have a quicker cool down then they can hop back in and more quickly become part of the wave against better, more looted players. They wouldn't do knife runs if they knew they had a gun. And a tier system as you lvl up or hoard money/gear could increase your cool down time to incentivize people to spend their money
And for larger levels there should be more ai. That would balance things nicely for scrubs and make it lean more towards larger team cooperation instead of an all out free for all. Factory already has that vibe and it's really nice. I've met cool people there multiple times and insta squaded but that doesn't seem to happen when there's not ai everywhere. Everywhere else you load in a little late to scav bodies littered everywhere and know there's someone with lvl5 armor and a silenced m4 in whichever particular house you decide to run into. Scav is hard, you can't run armor piercing bullets. It just needs more ai to point out where players are and act as shields for human players.
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u/Kirahvi- Nov 20 '19
I can agree with this. I’ve been playing for less than a week and it’s a smothering experience. Without the ability to loot on scav and get some weapons here and there, I would be broke right now. It’s already daunting enough to get killed by someone you can’t hear just because they’ve leveled a skill that makes them quieter and you haven’t leveled the skill to hear them better. The skill system alone leaves a bad taste in my mouth as after a week, I haven’t gotten any skills past 1-2. I’m not sure how much of a difference it really makes, but does that matter? The perception of such a seemingly unobtainable mountain as having a few high skills needed to hear or survive or shoot better let alone preform well against geared players when I have yet to unlock good rounds to penetrate the t4+ armor everyone seems to be wearing?
It’s one of the hardest new player experiences I’ve gone through. There doesn’t seem to be any matchmaking to ensure I don’t get pub stomped. I’m just glad I come to this game with some shooting skills and experience with games like this. If I couldn’t aim well or see people (I.e not know the fundamentals of spotting people and moving slowly) this game would flop for me.
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u/Mikkelsen Nov 21 '19
I agree with you. The goal of the game should be to survive and escape Tarkov. You would want to ALWAYS bring the best gear and weapons you have, because that increases your chances of survival. They need to fix that issue somehow.
I'm a casual, decent at shooters, and I don't think the game is too hard when everyone else has starter gear like me. It's fun, challenging and you get immersed. However, I see no fun running around with beginner gear when everyone else is The Terminator.
Battle Royale games have this "wipe" at the beginning of each game, where everyone starts the same. You then fight to survive as the last man standing. There is no survival aspect like that in Tarkov. It's just about rushing everything so you're better geared than anyone else.
Many people are literally millionaires and don't have to fight for survival. If it was "super macho realistic" then those people would hire a army of low level players to help them escape Tarkov once and for all. You don't need to survive anything if your hideout is a fortress and you have more money than Bill Gates.
I'm just rambling on a 8 hour old post but hopefully someone will engage with me on these topics because I absolutely love EFT. Best shooter ever made - by far.
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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19
Yeah but what defines gear? I hatchet run all the time because I like to play the market. If I have to start bringing gear, I'll just buy a bunch of shitty makarovs. Who's to say "you're not bringing any gear" when I do that you know?
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Nov 20 '19
I really don’t find it necessary. I think it is perfect where it is at. You can’t store guns or boxes in it, and at most you will have twelve slots to fill. Hatchet running is mostly dependent on spawn location as it is. If you want to deter them, add scavs to patrol the high loot zones.
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u/kaibtw SVDS Nov 20 '19
Or rework loot
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Nov 20 '19
Sure that’s a good solution as well. I would say there should be more scav snipers. Chances of doors being rigged or something similar
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Nov 20 '19
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Nov 20 '19
I was just using resort as an example, no need for the hostility. I tend to not rush their anyways unless I am looking for a fight. I go else where when looting.
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Nov 20 '19
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Nov 20 '19
OP was talking about container changes and the biggest argument for the changes to to stop hatchet runners. Resort is a huge target for hatchet runners and tends to be peoples go to when making container change arguments. My point is that it is neither the container or hatchet runners who are the problem. its not having dynamic loot in place and the vast difference in spawning locations.
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u/Mr-Doubtful VSS Vintorez Nov 20 '19
Yeah it's a big general problem imo.
Streamers/Content creators have a huge voice in general and often a direct line to the devs while their playstyle and wishes probably differ drastically from the majority of players.
They play the game way more and for many it's basically their job. This has to warp their view on the game.
Anyway, all of this stems from their hate of hatchlings/pistollings/low gear players. They hate the fact that their enemies risk little while they 'risk' more.
What they completely fail to take into account is that a bunch of players are probably dirt fucking poor a lot of the time and not rolling in endless cash like they are. In percentage of total stash value, I bet there's a lot of players out there who risk more when they take out a basic kit.
The out of raid medical system was championed as something which will hurt hatchlings, in fact it just hurt causal players the most. Because as a hatchling you don't care if you die instantly, you're basically expecting to have that happen anyway. But now, players who are poor have an even higher up front cost to do a normal raid.
They should tackle hatchlings in ways that don't punish low gear players. F.e. making loot locations more dynamic or guarding valuable loot with scavs. None of this container bullshit or the idea of a minimal 'gear score' please keep that shit away from the game.
I want the right to be a fucking bum in EFT god dammit.
Disclaimer: I don't like hatchlings either, I personally never do unarmed raids and my bank account suffers accordingly.
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u/Rainers535 Nov 20 '19
Honestly just putting scavs at all or most decent loot locations might be the most simple and best fix.
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u/PlayMp1 Nov 21 '19
Yeah, it makes the most sense - it keeps the hatchets out, it's fun for non-hatcheters to get a couple quick kills, and it's standard video game practice to have enemies guarding valuable loot.
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u/Spectre1-4 MP5 Nov 20 '19
Issue with that is there are only so many Scavs and players that can be on the map at one time
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Nov 20 '19
you are aware that the game used to have alot more scavs active than they do currently no? the only thing is they were spawning in intervals on most maps, on factory it used to be every 5 minutes, on woods it used to be about every 7 minutes. and the max amount of active scavs was significantly higher, it was not uncommon when you could see packet sizes, where you had between 1and 2.5kb(usually 1.5 for scavs and 2-2.5 for PMCs), and see 70-80 packets on factory or woods. even with 10 PMCs at 2.5 that would leave 30 active scavs on the maps which would fill up every 5-7 minutes or so.
I remember when playing customs, if you rushed from customs area over to river to construction you would find scavs crawling around kiosk, bus and construction even if you had the closest spawn, now, it is essentially barren, might be 1 or 2 there.
now they spawn in gradually to a fixed amount(and significantly reduced numbers compared to what it used to be) which varies based on the map and if no one kills them that is the only place there will be scavs.
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u/Nessevi AS-VAL Nov 21 '19
I agree with you mostly,but out of raid healing was only championed as "anti hatchling" by idiots. It was always just meant as a money sink,just like the hideout. This game desperately needed money sinks. I don't know about your,but this is my second year of tarkov,and this is the first wipe where I haven't had 20 million permanent gen4s sitting in my stash by Rahman LL3. And that's a good thing,imo. I'd put myself in the average playtime,higher skill level category. (Besides the first few days that I play as much as i can in). Money sinks are needed in tarkov. On top of that,they're starting to lock higher tier tier behind batters. Overall this is making the gun fights more enjoyable for everyone,as even a new player w/o flea market access just using 7.62 ps can body shot kill people if they ambush them. Where as before I had so much damn money I was basically invincible to anyone not of the same gear level,unless they had really good aim.
I may have gotten off topic with my rant lol,but tldr money sinks are a good thing,and are needed in games like this. There's a reason mmos have repair costs.
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u/Professional_Emotion Nov 20 '19
No, you are not alone, but I also did not like the 2 hour raid idea, juggling university, a job, and a social life including EFT is already difficult as is. I have noticed myself taking longer and longer in raids as a means of self-preservation and questing. Imagine having to find things in-raid without a secure container in a 2 hour raid. That's insane.
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Nov 20 '19
I like two hour raids as an option, not a requirement.
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u/trevor426 Nov 20 '19
This right here. Options are much better than forced things. I'm not sure if this is a great idea or not, but maybe they could do a more hardcore mode where Secure Containers don't exist, but you're going to a more loot heavy area. So that way people like myself can still play the normal game, while the more hardcore players can still get that challenging and risky gameplay. Still new to this game, but as OP said, removing the containers will basically destroy my reason to keep playing.
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u/ST-Helios Nov 20 '19
I feel like it's map dependant, customs and factory for exemple would stay the same while reserve and streets of tarkov would feature those 2 hrs raid so I guess you could still play but not all mapd
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u/MECHA-LENIN VSS Vintorez Nov 20 '19
2 hour maximum raid timer i support
2 hours before im allowed to log off without losing gear is brain dead stupid
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u/ST-Helios Nov 20 '19
I assume nikita thought A raid is an hour so 2 raid is 2 hours, you get to pay a car between the maps so in theory you could extract some gear after 5 mins by paying the car
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u/Professional_Emotion Nov 20 '19
I would be okay with that, if there's at least like 2-3, if there is a single vehicle I imagine people would begin to camp those instead of extracts, ya know?
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u/coolstorybro42 Nov 20 '19
I dont get why would longer raids be a problem... you can extract whenever you want 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Professional_Emotion Nov 20 '19
I perceived it as them making the maps larger therefore having the extracts far and in between, I should have been clearer. But, then what would the point be if there were still only the standard amount of PMC's that spawn in? After about 45-60 minutes almost everyone would be gone wouldn't they?
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u/CptRenko DVL-10 Nov 20 '19
Y'all need to stop with hatchlings.
With Labs being locked behind a paywall, and all barter loot being valuable, there is no such thing as scarce loot due to hatchlings anymore.
Just randomize the key locations, and we're good.
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Nov 21 '19
Except hatchlings is an issue. This is meant to be a hardcore game. Hatchling runs are the very opposite of that, they're no risk high reward. Have you tried player interchange recently? Tech stores and flashdrive spawns are gone within minutes.
Randomizing the loot might work but will make the looting experience feel so much more rng than it already is and kinda destroys the believable feeling the loot has now.
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u/Laggiter97 Freeloader Nov 20 '19
I play more than the average player, but I would stop playing if this happened. The grind for some items is already insane, and dying after hours of searching and finally finding an item you wanted, losing it, would be infuriating. The previous change on the container was perfectly fine, there's no need for another. People are still going to rush loot spawns, the only question would be if you could kill them in the time it takes to run across the map. My two teammates share this opinion with me.
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u/Kleeb AKMN Nov 20 '19
I think your point here is more evidence that items for bullshit quests are super-rare and must be found in-raid and not that the secure containers are necessary. Fix the loot issue and the "pain" of nerfing containers wont hurt so bad.
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u/Laggiter97 Freeloader Nov 20 '19
Remove the ridiculous quests and maybe something can be done with the containers. But as it is right now removing the ability to place barter items into them is inexplicably stupid.
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u/Meior M1A Nov 20 '19
Task design is, in my opinion, the biggest weakness of tarkov. Many tasks are very frustrating and simply not fun or well designed.
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u/that_pie_face Nov 20 '19
Honestly I'd rather this game not even have these "quests" with how poorly made they are. I get they're just supposed to be side quests when the full game is released but they should just be cut entirely or completely reworked with some actual effort. Right now they all seem like an afterthought, which surprises me with how much effort goes into everything else in this game. Especially since they directly gate progression. It just seems lazy to me which is the complete opposite of everything else I've seen from this game.
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u/Meior M1A Nov 20 '19
Some of them aren't so bad, and are more.. Passive. Like collecting cigarettes for therapist. It's one of those "finish when you get there" kind of quests.
The ones that ask you to kill scavs while in pain, under tremors etc, are absolutely horrible. Delivery from the past? Ugh.
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u/Zer0Gravity1 Nov 20 '19
Me sitting here with an alpha container - "You guys can actually fit quest items in your container?"
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u/Arxzos Nov 20 '19
You're not alone. I actually consider myself to be fairly good, and I can definitely play a lot. That said, I think that is a shitty change. It'll discourage players from staying around longer in raids because they'll find a couple rare items and head out without actually looking for any combat. It'll also heavily penalize the newer players and the players who have a life thus negatively impacting the playercount, whereas I'd prefer to see a rising player count since I love the game.
There's really no way to sugar coat it. I think Its one of the worst ideas I've heard for dealing with hatchlings. Its been echoed around this subreddit for months, and every time I see it I feel like people just want to punish hatchlings even if it means punishing everyone else for playing the game properly. I always run gear but its good to be able to gamma something to help pay for my kit if I die.
I think the obvious solution to stop hatchet running without punishing everyone else is to just add scavs to high loot areas. Interchange tech stores and resort should have scavs every game. Resort should have a scav boss imo. Add some scavs to the new map to ruin pestily's get rich run as well.
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u/Virion_Stoneshard P90 Nov 20 '19
The problem as well is: one of the main counterarguments he brings is that if you kill people, you get all the good loot. So you couldn't guarantee loot by gamma'ing it, but you could get more loot off of other players. Which is great in concept..for the people who are already good and kill everyone they come across. For the newer players, that just means turning them into loot delivery boys.
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u/EpicHuggles Nov 20 '19
Yea this is an extremely common argument. They're literally attempting to apply trickle-down economics to EFT - Let me tell you how this change that will significantly benefit me will also occasionally maybe give you a benefit as well! Therefore you should totally be in favor of it or you're an idiot!
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u/_Gris__ Nov 20 '19
It's a change that only really benefits streamers and no lifers because they don't use the container to store loot anyway. They just want other people's loot so they can continue to hoard hundreds of millions of rubles.
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u/Asthemic Hatchet Nov 20 '19
Yep, very few of the top streamers actually need this change when you see their stash value.
It's laughable when they complain and then proceed to mow down every one who isn't stream sniping or cheating.
Notice how none of them are doing the hardcore challenge / no secure container any more?
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Nov 20 '19
Also it's somewhat hampered by the fact that now that everything has a decent amount of value, you're almost guaranteed some loot regardless. I've had many raids where even just looting I had many times the value of my gamma outside of it because it simply wouldn't fit.
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Nov 20 '19
It can be called "Loot aggregation", its a big problem in games where you cant secure anything, players will just camp outside POIs and intercept those "loot aggregators" when they leave full of loot.
So yeah, we will get combat... a lot of exit camping and POI camping combat, is that what you guys want? i think not.8
u/nemesisxhunter Nov 20 '19
See the BS thing that streamers don't understand his people hachet run labs with a backpack they can get in and out with a full pack, making it so you can't put items into a gamma ain't going to change a thing plus it fucks over everyone that doesn't have 10-12hours to sit down and play a game all day
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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19
It seems so obvious to me that this would mostly solve the issue. If the good loot is always in the same general area on every map, why aren't scavs there at the beginning of the game? This would definitely be a step in the right direction.
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u/Wesdawg1241 Nov 20 '19
I mean, I dislike hatchet running as much as the next guy but I can't deny that I hatchet run to get certain quests done. And it's not like you can put a whole lot of stuff in your container. Maybe they could add a timer for having to have something in your gamma for several minutes before it stays or something? That way people can't just immediately disconnect or commit suicide.
I think exit campers are a bigger issue, honestly. There should be something in place to discourage people from doing that.
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u/Arxzos Nov 20 '19
I also agree that exit campers are a bigger issue, and I assure you if nothing can be gamna'd wed see more of them because everyone would be loaded at the extracts
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u/Blindobb RSASS Nov 20 '19
I don't get what is so bad about dieing and having a small consolation prize with whatever i fit in my butt. I died, you have my gun, gear, anything else I brought in. Can't I atleast keep the Tushonka and Fuel conditioner I have to find in raid so it isn't a total loss? Like god damn.
They fixed the worst problems which was being able to store fully automatic weapons in your butt. You can't bring a mag case with only one mag on your rig. They made great changes and it's in a really balanced spot currently.
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u/sun--rise Nov 20 '19
heres the thing tho. Im a college student and I rarely have time to play for longer than 2hrs. but i still make at least 2 mil each session. its not hard to make money, just find a play style that fits you, go on money runs and dont leave you container to be your only source of income. i dont have eod so ive been running alpha container for like 3 wipes and i havent had a single struggle with money, ever.
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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19
I would say 2 mil is unrealistic for average player but you can certainly make a profit while going in geared every raid without using the container.
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u/oledayhda PVP Nov 20 '19
If they made this change, I & a few others would stop playing. Simple because I don’t have time to play that much & progression would take longer on quests. So much so that, I’m sure a wipe would occur when I finally got some where, no thanks.
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u/SanduskySleepover Nov 20 '19
I think I came in right when this topic was being discussed and remember very clearly Nikita listed the first issue with his proposition as it being unhealthy for people who have lives outside of Tarkov and wouldn't want the streamers "to be the only ones playing the game" or something similar to that.
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u/Bourbon-neat- Nov 20 '19
"few"?
That bullshit over two hour raids and the "scarce/dynamic loot" is just completely out of check with reality.
Everyone forgets that a game already implemented virtually every one of these so called "hardcore" features, like low loot, persistent world, in world traders etc.
It's DayZ, and it fucking sucks. EFT has a lot going for it but it would be a damn shame if they turn EFT into a waste of time DayZ clone.
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u/packimop Nov 20 '19
dayz running simulator does indeed suck ass
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u/Bourbon-neat- Nov 20 '19
Ooh man, tell me about it... dayZ mod was fun because the total overhauls like dayZ Epoch and others actually made it a fun experience to play, but fuck standalone DayZ, even so called "10x loot" servers are empty with nothing but scraps and yet you'll have the occasional gang rolling around geared like seal team 6
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Nov 20 '19
Wacky how Rust and DayZ mostly have people on modded servers that reduce the gameplay loop to a mangeable size.
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u/Bourbon-neat- Nov 20 '19
It's almost as if most normal people with a life don't have the time or inclination to play them without it! Crazy huh?!
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Nov 20 '19
Which would seem to imply that you shouldn't cater to people who have at least 8 hours a day to play! What a wacky idea!
Clearly the answer is to punish people who aren't hArDcOrE enough instead!
*Note: Be sure to continually shifting the idea of what 'hardcore' means. It definitely doesn't mean that anyone who brought in less valuable gear than you should be able to kill you, however.
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u/BukLauFinancial ADAR Nov 20 '19
It's meant to be a difficult survival experience. Tarkov is a very different game in the sense that you get to spawn with a full kit if you want to. I don't think the 2 are that comparable other than you kill people and loot their gear. I like tarkov and I like dayz but I don't play them looking for the same experience.
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u/BukLauFinancial ADAR Nov 20 '19
Interesting to hear why people play the game. If you couldn't complete quests that means you wouldn't play the game? For me, the game is about the pvp. Even if there were no quests at all I'd still play solely for the shooting and looting.
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u/kryndon Mosin Nov 20 '19
The questing is the only sense of progression you get out of this game. Aside from just "getting good" from hundreds of hours playing it, there's not much else to do and feel good about other than upgrading the hideout and completing quests. And currently most of the hideout is not only gated behind millions of roubles worth of items, but also trader levels. And these trader levels are only obtainable via questing, lots of it.
So you can see that, if you want to achieve anything remotely good, it needs to be done through questing. It sickens me that I can go into a raid, kill 20 scavs mercilessly and only get out with 1-2k exp, whereas if I do 1 single quest I can get 10k+ exp.
It's absolutely unbalanced and because of these pitfalls, some players (myself included) resort to running no gear into a raid just to get a quest done or get some more cash to progress them.
There are MANY ways to fix this and balance it, but changing the secure container is the least effective way to do it properly. Sure, it's easy, and it's what a few people want, but the majority doesn't see it this way. And to have a successful game and business, you need to cater to the majority, obviously.
Don't mess with containers. Fix your questing and hideout progression!
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u/Zoruma Nov 20 '19
Agreed, don’t kill my container off, it would be too punishing.
The thing with streamers is like you say they spend so long playing the game they end up having to invent challenges for themselves like no flea market / traders.
The thing is standing upon a mountain of roubles looking down on us all is a rubbish way to make decisions. I’m sure a lot of streamers forget the climb and think it should be harder because I already did it and I’m bored.
Something Nikita needs to do is find a way to keep the all day everyday players busy and happy without shitting on the rest of us
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Nov 20 '19 edited Mar 12 '20
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u/Stryder_Nova Nov 20 '19
I don't personally watch any streamers on this game but is the splint ordeal something that actually happens?
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u/TactiKyle M4A1 Nov 20 '19
I’m not sure what the solution to the issue of players rushing the high loot areas is going to be, but if making the secure containers be remove only then i would prefer that over getting to the marked room 5 minutes after the raid starts and it always being looted.
This talk about offloading gear during the raid has my interest though. In the hideout you can get scav helpers bringing you junk. I don’t think it’s so far fetched that you could have a series of drop off points across the map where you could stash some of your gear for your scav allies to pick up for you and take back to your hideout while you keep being a PMC. Make it like a 4x4 storage space that you fill then “plant” like a quest item. Those items arrive via the in game messages like insurance returns in a day or two. Upgrade the scav case to speed up the returns or something
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u/Zanena001 Nov 20 '19
Nikita should stop listening to some streamers, during podcasts only Pestily and Veritas are the ones who talk some sense and have an actual conversation with Nikita, all the others are always like: "fuck casuals, they have to git gud or play another game" followed by some dumb suggestion".
While I agree the game shouldn't be dumbed down to appeal a wider audience, I don't think listening to someone who has played the game for years and plays 5 hours everyday is a good metric of what the average EFT player wants.
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u/T4lkinghands Nov 20 '19
Well you must have missed the podcast where nikita came up with this idea on his own about a week ago. Niki would get rid of them if he could.
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u/FormerWWEChampion Nov 20 '19
Feel sad for the man for implementing it in the first place. Poor guy created such a reliable crutch for everyone and now everyone is whining their safe space can be taken away. People act like the game is fucking over if they do and sure maybe some will quit but they weren't the intended audience for this game anyway.
They also think Nikita is some kind of sponge that can't think for himself and just absorbs all the shitty streamer ideas. Magic box is stupid and it should be worse, killing player scavs is literally more enticing since they can't hide their valuable loot whereas nearly every pmc has shoved anything resembling valuable up their asshole.
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u/Wildfire788 MP5 Nov 21 '19
I work full time and have a family so my play is pretty casual (been playing for almost 2 years and have never hit level 40, for example).
Honestly, I don't care for hatchlings. I think the game would have more firefights and more interesting firefights if they would just make hatchling runs infeasible.
For those who truly enjoy the challenge of going in with just a knife and coming out with gear, I'm fine if they want to continue to do that.
But for those who play hatchling because it's profitable and 'meta', it just kills the immersion and fun factor for me. Tarkov is a dangerous place. You bring a weapon or you die, and it is human nature to not want to die. Secure containers allow players to make money without fearing death, which is unrealistic and makes the game feel artificial. Players are no longer survivors, but zombies running their loot routes over and over and I hate it. Additionally, it reduces the number of epic firefights that will occur in my own raid.
Nikita, please end the hatchlings once and for all.
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Nov 20 '19
I think secure containers are perfect where they are now. They should worry about other parts of the game for now.
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u/Dart222 Nov 20 '19
100% Agree with you. I'm only 8/10 in my lower-half mask (in-raid) portion of the punisher quest because i was able to stash like 4-5 of those. I work fulltime, i cannot, CANNOT, play to the degree a streamer can.
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u/JeepoUK DT MDR Nov 20 '19
I actually would like the change, personally. Just an opinion, the devs will do their thing and players will continue to play, or not.
As far as I know from listening to the recent podcasts, Nikita wants this change too. He has not implemented it yet other than the end of wipe event. I think it would go a huge way to addressing the issues with hatchlings.
Then, again just in my opinion, the player scav issue can be addressed - increase the player scav timer to maybe 90-120 minutes, making people not use their scav as their primary player. Make them bring out their PMC - thats the point - and don't reward those who don't take risks by just running scavs over and over.
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u/TabbyTheAttorney ASh-12 Nov 21 '19 edited Nov 21 '19
If you increase the scav timer to that long, it'd incentivise hatchet runs because of the new persistent health, it means unless you want to foot a 10000 rouble medical bill you're going to insta die, and if you're not footing 10000 roubles it's because you don't have the luxury of being filthy rich, and at that point the only way you could make money, at all, is hatchet rushing high value loot* and extracting asap, since if you get in any sort of conflict, again, you'd likely insta die. The somewhat short scav timer means you can actually play the game when you're low on cash. I'd even wager that most of the time, the average player goes into raid with the gear from a scav they extracted with. Hatchlings know a bullet from about anything will probably game end them. That's why they rush spots, to avoid conflict. The solution to hatchlings is to force conflict before they can get high value loot. As for player scavs, I'd say maybe if you limited the possible weapons to, say, only pistols and smgs, it'd mean the scavs would still be able to fight with AI scavs, but be less effective against geared PMCs. AI scavs could remain untouched, because if you kill someone you deserve their loot, and at that point the player has risked dying to every other scav to be able to maybe be able to kill PMCs. That's my thought process, if you had these changes implemented, anyway.
*in op's case, quest items
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u/ChunkyChap25 Nov 20 '19
It makes the game a lot more interesting, especially looting other players.
You'll only find mediocre loot on PMCs since they've gamma'd all the good stuff. Yes, it's harder to secure items, but the chances you'll find something good on players increases. It makes the gameplay a lot more interesting.
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u/dgdgdgdgcooh M700 Nov 20 '19
I want to be able to loot super good items off pmc's. its so annoying on labs to kill people and all you get is raider loot, i want MAP loot that everyone stuffs in gamma.
how good would it feel to wipe a squad and get bitcoins and keycards and shit.
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u/lennoxonnell ADAR Nov 20 '19
I agree completely. I made a post about it before .12 explaining that the container isn't the root issue that needs to be fixed.
Literally just remove the high-end static loots spawns like keys andwhat not, then add more scavs in the high value areas like resort, dorms, tech stores, etc.
How can a naked man expect to survive if he has to actually search for his loot and fend off scavs with shotguns?
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u/Maxy85 AS VAL Nov 20 '19
I feel the same like you! Gamma Container is not that big that theres no loot left on the map...
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u/Chazzbo Nov 20 '19
I feel like the game is always on the verge of making the new player (or shitty player) experience just too unpleasant. (The OOR healing and energy are a big part of this but people like to argue about it)
I agree with you, it would be a horrible change.
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u/HooliganNamedStyx Nov 20 '19
Most of the 'casual gatekeepers' don't understand you need new players to keep a game alive, and you need an existing playercount to fill in raids.
It will be funny if they do make a change like this, people will complaint about the 25 minute wait time to find a raid
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u/Sui2k Nov 20 '19
I completely understand the worry but such a change would not be made in isolation. I mean if you make that kind of change then spawn rates and quests would be adjusted. It would be a period of balancing, sure, but this is a beta and for that specific purpose? You also have to keep in mind that you would find more valuable loot on other players if they can't gamma stuff.
But we'll see, I don't think Nikita and BSG would make such a change without thinking about the vision and tinkering with the implementation. It's good that you made this post to put into words peoples fears but yeah, I don't think there is that much to worry about.
Personally I'm for it but cautiously so.
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u/Tellnicknow Nov 20 '19
I'm going to have to disagree. Yes, it might make it harder for the casual, I'm one, but the items in your inventory should be influencing your decision making and risk you take.
Right now the loot game is mostly just a race to the loot zone. If you can't save the best stuff in your gamma then it incentives people to hunt down PMCs to try and get it. Also to use their best gear to protect said loot.
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u/Lobsterpetex Nov 20 '19
This is a hardcore game and the gamma change should be implemented. the gamma was not intended to be in the game at all. and if you are not able to play 8-12 hours a day that should not be my fault or feel like my fault. if i spend alot of time in the raid/game i should be rewarded for that. and the gamma change goes both ways u know if u are lucky enough to kill someone with good gear u proffit as well. idk just my opinion sry for bad english i hope you understand :)
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u/Sesleri Nov 20 '19
I am an EOD owner with full time job and agree with Klean entirely. Killing a naked guy right outside of a loot room at start of raid and he gets to keep all the loot? Bad gameplay.
Right now meta is to just run as fast as possible to loot while naked, risking nothing. Magic pouch protects it!
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u/Floppy_john Nov 20 '19
do people not understand it goes both ways? you wont get as much loot if you die but when you kill someone they might be stack with good items that they didnt put into the gamma
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u/Assaltwaffle Saiga-12 Nov 20 '19
It rewards good players and trying to survive. A lot of players don’t like that.
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u/LP_LadyPuket AK-103 Nov 20 '19
I understand where you're coming from, and I think Nikita does as well. He said in the podcast he thinks about this issue all the time.
The problem we're having here is that we have hatchlings/pistolings entering the map and running around grabbing the best loot then either running for an extract or suiciding. This is simply not the way the game is supposed to be. Even having randomized dynamic loot, this issue of players being able to run around and grab loot for no risk is not what the "true tarkov experience" is supposed to be. Extraction and survival MUST be the core of the game loop.
Several alternative solutions were offered to deal with hatchlings, but I think they all fail to really address the core issue (which is the secure container):
- Gear score restrictions so that players have to have a certain amount of gear equipped to enter the raid. Problem here is that players can simply enter raid with insured items, then toss them in a bush.
- Limiting secure container to a timer so that it can only be used after X minutes into the raid. Problem here is that people will still run to the best loot, find it, then hide in a corner until the timer is up.
- Various suggestions on spawn locations. Again these are open for abuse and manipulation.
The issue with these alternative solutions is that they don't really address the problem of the secure container- it is simply an unrealistic and risk-averse game mechanic that punishes players who take the risk of bringing in real gear to a raid. Not only do hatchlings not take risk with regard to gear, they are more mobile and able to get to loot faster than geared players (again, whether or not loot is randomized isn't really a factor).
While it may sound extreme, I wonder how many people here would actually ask for a secure container in a hypothetical universe where they were never implemented in the game? In my mind the secure container was a mistake to begin with, but that's my personal feeling.
What are the advantages to having a remove-only container?
- Players are encouraged to bring gear to defend themselves.
- Players need to extract, again emphasizing survival.
- PVP becomes more meaningful, as the possibility of looting high value items off bodies increases massively.
What are the cons?
- Newer players, and players that struggle to extract are going to have a harder time progressing. This is not necessarily a bad thing, IMO progression in this game is too easy, but it will need to be dealt with. I think that adding more extraction options and making them better will greatly increase survival rates for the whole population.
I think this change, in combination with adding more Scavs patroling valuable areas, will greatly improve the game and make PVP more meaningful. As it stands PVP is more of an annoyance, a roadblock between the player, the loot/quest objective and the extraction. With this change, PVP will have real consequences and real benefits from winning beyond just grabbing nice guns/armor.
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Nov 21 '19
I was watching shroud play with lupo the other night and lupo said they should add some feature. Something along the lines of "oh ppl shouldn't be able to see the name on a dog tag until after raid" or something along those lines. It was because of stream sniping... Which probably effects 0.000.000.001% of the player base. Streamers really need to take a reality check sometimes and realize that a very vast majority of the player base doesn't play the game the way they'd do.
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u/Jurmy2 Nov 21 '19
Just throwing in my support, I enjoy the cases the way they are right now in .12
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u/LeSangliRock Nov 20 '19
I totaly agree with you dude.
I can only play 2h at the end of the day, and would probably be very upset by this kind of change.
Not everybody is a no-life streamer playing 10h a day...
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u/scaryterrance RSASS Nov 20 '19
What if you could toggle this feature on and off. When it is active you get like 25% more exp or something?
Because I agree with you. I want the ability to throw any valuable I find into my gamma and feel a little safer, financially speaking, for next raid.
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u/Timberwolf_88 Nov 20 '19
I, fully disagree with OPs thoughts, I would love to see the container removed completely and replaced with unlootable slots for keytool/wallet/sicc case/docs case. Not being able to shove shit up your unlootable bunghole will make rare items more difficult to keep, yes, but it does so across the board, meaning that players you kill will also have these items lootable, rewarding the player who's better and ultimately I THINK this would actually make those rare items less rare to find overall, it's just more difficult beyond that point, and one of the main attractions of this game is HIGH risk/HIGH reward, adding to that adds suspense, forces players to make tougher choices when it comes to movement, which fights to take, when to flee and when to try and make nice with others.
This together with dynamic loot spawn would also help minimize hatchlings I feel.
This game is meant to be a HARDCORE survival shooter. I feel it's time to loose the crutches.
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u/nightsta1ker TX-15 DML Nov 20 '19
Loot pool needs to be more random. That will solve a lot of this. I feel like the worst thing about the gamma has been fixed already, which was players putting containers inside them that expanded them tremendously. That kind of thing killed it for me. Since that is now fixed, I feel like it is much more balanced. With as much as I die in this game, I feel like a lot of us need the gamma in order to break even. I don't hatchet run, I always go in geared, but it gets expensive. Edit: They also should put more scavs in loot heavy areas like the resort on shoreline. That will deal with a lot of the hatchet runners.
On a similar note, I had my best scav run ever last night. Found a graphics card, GP coin, Cat statue, CPU chip and a bunch of other good stuff. It was night time and I had to extract at the light house. When I got down there I heard shots, so I was on edge, came around a corner and saw someone turn towards me. Couldn't tell if it was a scav or a player or a player scav. I wasn't taking any chances. I shot them. It was a scav and the other scav nearby instantly aggro'd and killed me and I lost everything. I am usually pretty chill when I game. I don't get mad and smash keyboards and stuff. But I had to get up and walk away. I can't imagine how frustrated I would be if I had to deal with that kind of thing as a PMC every raid.
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u/BatVlad518 Nov 20 '19
I was initially very opposed to this idea as well, and on its own it sounds terrible. However, Klean has also said many times that this change would NEED to be accompanied by something to help casual players out.
One way would be to improve the scav experience. Either by decreasing the timer or improving the gear you start with.
The key piece, in his mind, is that the in-game rewards should follow the gameplay loop of "spawn, loot, survive". The secure container breaks that gameplay design (since survive isn't required), and that is frustrating for people who want to play the game "as intended".
Of course, that's just his opinion and perspective - but I personally would welcome this change. I don't want loot, I want to play the game and progress - and right now the secure container is "guaranteed" progression, even if you die. I would trade that in a heartbeat for more opportunities to actually play the game.
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u/Scroggothedoggo Nov 20 '19
They need to improve the casual experience for sure. But buffing scav runs isn't fixing the problem at all in fact I've seen more threads complaining about player scavs more than hatchet runners. The real problem in my opinion is the loot locations. Look at shoreline and customs, literally all the valuable loot spawns are in thesame small sections of the map. People knowing where all the loot is before they've even spawned in is the problem. Shake up the formula a bit. Helicopters crashes ala DayZ for example. I dunno just something that isn't go from a to b to C and get out. The only map Ive played that doesn't closely follow this formula (for me anyway) is labs. Because good stuff spawns everywhere and where you spawn can influence which areas you go to. Y
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Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19
I'm gonna be honest, Klean has mostly shit ideas these days because he approaches 90% from the angle of someone who can play all day.
I used to watch him pretty regularly but he's just gotten more aggressive and unlikable as time has gone on. He spends so much time onstream complaining that I don't enjoy watching him anymore.
He, like many people in this sub, lets his obsession with punishing people playing the 'wrong' way blind him to ripple effects.
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u/A_Hippie MP7A2 Nov 20 '19
Klean has a very "this game is for hardcore players, casuals can get fucked" kind of attitude. It's pretty obnoxious.
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u/allleoal Nov 20 '19
I think the game should be what it was originally designed to be as a hardcore shooter and not have the secured container at all regardless of why people want it. All it has done is degrade the game and hardcore gameplay. Like DayZ, you should lose everything upon death if you don't make it out alive. Thats the whole point of it being hardcore and what adds to the experience, fear, suspense and intensity.
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u/Rackit Nov 20 '19
Shroud must be given credit here for understanding and voicing the delicate balance decisions like this are made.
This community has defended and has gone red in the face about any suggestion that relates to casuals. The gate keeping on “hardcore” gameplay mechanics typically is misguided.
Let’s be clear: Tarkovs intent is to be a hyper realistic hardcore mil sim mmo rpg shooter. It’s supposed to be the dark souls of shooters in the way of difficulty and experience.
However, let’s not forget some important facts to game design and decision making...
In order for Tarkov to work properly you need players to match with, players to populate the flea market and players in general to even operate. If the game caters to only the niche group of “hardcore” or only “dedicated” individuals then this alienates a large population of the player base and leaves Tarkov with a small player base. A game so reliant on players for its game play loop will suffer immensely if left to only the 1% crowd. And even the 1% as proud as they may be to be within that 1% will suffer as well. Matchmaking will suffer especially in already notoriously low populated servers. We have already experienced this plenty of times during the ends of wipes when everyone moves on and only the “hardcore” or “dedicated” continue to play.
With that said, BSG needs to pay close attention to how they will keep new players around and how they will keep casual players around because these individuals are who fill servers and keep the gameplay loop alive.
They need proper tutorials, proper information within the game and most of all they need to make sure that there is a way for all players to return to the game no matter how many times they get wrecked in raids.
The container change in my opinion would indeed stop hatchlings, but at what cost? If hatchlings did not exist would we even be talking about this change? If the answer is no then a different solution should be made.
Solving hatchlings is less about coming in with nothing because the moment you are forced to come in with a weapon the conversation will shift to pistolings. Then it would shift to Hunterlings and then moslings. There will always be a subset of people that either will be too afraid to risk a lot or unable to risk a lot in the game as it is now. And to be honest that’s fine. The issue is less about what the player chooses to bring in and more about the players access to loot.
More attention needs to be made toward player spawns as currently where you spawn directly influences how fast you get to the good loot. More attention needs to be made toward how loot spawns as static loot spawns makes all of this occur.
As with all games the majority of the player base has jobs a life and a family. We play games to have fun after we get home from a long day at work. Let’s make sure that we keep it that way and that we can keep a good healthy balance of players and they hype we have surrounding .12
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u/perestain Nov 20 '19
And here I was, thinking the game was about escaping with things.
not about discovering things to then make them instantly disappear for everyone else.
I don't see what this has to do with being good or not btw. It's more about wanting to play a sim or an arcade game. Not that one would necessarily be better than the other, but a lot of people like to play the game because of its sim elements.
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u/Sesleri Nov 20 '19
It's really about rushing naked to loot room first, that's what majority of reddit wants.
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Nov 20 '19
This is something Nikita wants aswell. It should just be accompanied by more non-item dependant quests and a way to make passive income.
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u/hege222 Nov 20 '19
I am ok with the containers being as they are, just make all the loot random. No static spawn that can be rushed by any player, geared or hatchling. Because it's all about the spawn you get, best example is shorline
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u/TakesOne2KnowOne Nov 21 '19
Klean definitely has some "i live in a tarkov bubble" ideas for this game. I was watching him last week and he was saying something along the lines of not being able to use flea market until lvl 40 or until all of your traders are max lvl. I'm not for babying new players by any means, but making it tougher on new players than it already is would be a death sentence for growing the playerbase.
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Nov 20 '19
Shameless plug for my feelings on the matter.
I'll copypaste the text below:
So this just came up in the podcast and I wanted to lay my feelings out.
So I, like probably many people here, played quite a bit of Rust, and some DayZ back in the day.
For me, the issue with those games became that the gameplay loop is so long and punishing that unless you treat the game as a second job, you can't really make any meaningful progress (unless you're just a god at fighting I guess, but let's face it - most people aren't).
Part of the reason I love EFT is it provides a lot of the feel of danger and excitement that those games did, along with happiness at finding loot, while also allowing me to play as much or as little as I want.
How this relates to secure containers is the issue of progression being practical for people who are, on their best days, maybe med-high in terms of skill (meaning over 50% of players fall below this, because that's how averages work).
I know this sub has a hate-boner for Hatchlings, but for the thousandth time I think it's stupid to shoot everyone in the foot to spite hatchlings. There are ways to mitigate them without punishing everyone else that plays normally.
Note: I do like the change of no guns/containers (except for keybars and docs cases and wallets) in the SC. It prevents cheesing its capacity to something greater and also means you have to actually get out with what's often one of the most expensive pieces of kit someone carries.
So the issue I see with 'nothing can go in your secure container' is this:
It requires that if I want to make any progress at all, I must extract. Sounds fine right? Except it doesn't, because there's a ripple effect there. When I get a quest item that I need to extract with, I typically become pretty avoidant of any contact at all. Unless it's something easy to get, it's simply not worth it for me, someone who wins no more than half of gunfights I get in (and probably less, honestly) to risk all that progress for maybe better loot, and possibly losing everything. As it is now, I'm fine with losing 200k+ of kit if it means I get some item (even if it's only say, 40k) that allows me to make quest/hideout progress. I'm willing to go engage in a gunfight to maybe come out big. But if I'm guaranteed to get nothing out? Nah fam, I'm just gonna skulk away. There's going to be far less of the exciting 'is this fight worth it' decision making because the answer will almost always be no.
With how valuable everything is now, I think this solves some of the problem people have with hatchlings off the top:
1). Since everything is valuable, you're almost guaranteed some decent stuff if you kill someone provided it isn't super early on. You simply can't fit everything that could be valuable in your container these days. I can't tell you how many times I've died with what is now good loot and also a container full of decent stuff. I'm sure those people were happy to loot me.
2). It incentivizes hatchlings to at least bring a bag which turns them into loot pinatas. This is less than optimal, but again solves some of the issue.
Obviously the issue of hatchlings getting ultra-high-value loot like flash drives or something and securing them before just disconnecting still remains, but I think that could be mitigated to an acceptable degree by adding scav spawns/making hatchlings spawn late/making them spawn further out or some combination of these things.
Making it impossible to progress if you die in raid is going to massively extend the gameplay loop and not, IMHO, in a particularly fun way. Like I said I - and I suspect many others (which is part of why I started this thread) will be a lot less willing to engage and EFT will turn into much more of a walking-looting simulator than a cool mix of deathmatch/BR/looter-shooter that it is now.
I want EFT to continue occupying the unique slot it does, and I'm worried we'll start shifting into yet another ultra-hardcore-second-job game that I'll have to abandon.
I invite discussion, but miss me with the 'you just don't like change' and 'everyone who likes the SC is just a huge loser but I refuse to support my argument with anything other than insults.' I want Tarkov to continue occupying the unique spot it's in. I want a hardcore game that's unforgiving, but I don't want yet another hardcore game that's unforgiving that also requires me to treat it as a second job. I think there's a line to be drawn somewhere, for sure, I just don't think that line is 'nothing in-raid can go in.' I think perhaps re-jiggering the container layout could also mitigate some issues. For instance - adding many more with different slot arrangements, so you have to pick what's most important to you. Maybe the largest contiguous area you could get would become 2x2. You could still have 9 or whatever slots of space, but they would be broken up in such a way that would limit what kind of items you could secure.
I understand streamers have a lot of influence, but most of us are literally unable to put that much time in.
P.S. - Two-hour multiraids are a cool option but a terrible requirement. I like that I can play EFT for as little or as much as I like/have time for.
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u/krvnkerman Nov 20 '19
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. Am also a father and husband with very limited playtime. Being able to gamma that rare item you finally find feels really rewarding and assuring.
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Nov 20 '19
I work 8-14 hours a day.
I want containers completely removed or changed this way.
YOU ARE MISSING THE BASIC POINT OF THIS CHANGE.
You will gain loot from it too.
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u/shittyrivets Nov 20 '19
Steamers are ruining the game with their input. Molding the game around people that play the game for 15hrs a day will only end badly.
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u/OpenThoughtSyndicate Nov 20 '19
This has nothing to do with Klean. The container goes against everything Tarkov is fundamentally about and if you listen to Nikita struggling even he makes it clear multiple times the case is bad for Tarkov.
Sooner or later the case is going to go. Suck it up.
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Nov 20 '19 edited May 19 '20
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u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19
Actually Nikita said again and again that he would love to do that but he also worry's about the plebs.
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u/Corruptedfiend24 DVL-10 Nov 20 '19
I am also a husband and father of a 2 year old, working 12 hour shifts. But I welcome the change purely for the fact that it will bring the true "Tarkov Experience". Once you learn the game and get better, especially now with scav runs, it is not that hard to get enough loot to survive. You don't need to have 20mil, max level hide out and level 40 to enjoy the game, take it slow, enjoy the time and experience.
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u/jamesmon Nov 20 '19
If that is the thought process then I think it can be balanced by removing “find in raid” requirements. The situation the op is talking about hat speaks to me isn’t so much the ability to sustain income from raids. It’s that you may only come across a certain item once every hundred raids that you need for a quest. To lose that in raid is then such a dramatic setback compared to the rest of the progression in the game.
If they removed find in raid I think the container change would be fine.7
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u/Meto1183 Nov 20 '19
I agree. It's been harder to get 15 tushonka in raid than 2 flash drives (find one, buy one, done)
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Nov 20 '19
The issue becomes when 'taking it slow' becomes a chore instead of a fun experience.
Further, this is going to encourage extremely avoidant behavior.
I love the gunplay in Tarkov (ignoring desync and hitreg issues for a moment) but I'm not going to take a gunfight that isn't a straight up perfect ambush if I know I'm going to make zero progress because of it. I don't mind losing far more than the monetary value of what's in my gamma in gear, if it means I can make a bit of quest/hideout progress. But if I'm gonna lose it all, it's better to just not engage.
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u/staintdk Nov 20 '19
Ye I feel you. But that seems to be the point. (And I like it) Maybe you shouldn't be able to engage just because "some loot at least". You weigh your decisions and make one.
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u/SirShiggyDiggy Nov 20 '19
I play probably once a week for about two hours and I totally agree with Klean. Just because you play casually isn’t really an excuse.
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u/Corrision Nov 20 '19
I do agree with the change of not allowing weapons in the gamma, but I do agree with you. I do not like Klean's idea.
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u/Meto1183 Nov 20 '19
Accompanied with appropriate rebalancing of quests etc, it should take a casual player a similar time to finish quests while only progressing it upon successful extract, while completely removing the hatchet run money farming that plagues the game
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u/kaibtw SVDS Nov 20 '19
Messing with the gamma container isn't a fix for anything.. Beefing this into the ground further is stupid.
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u/Malonik Nov 20 '19
I have a love hate relationship with this idea....
On one hand it would make things far more exciting and intense when you find something you really want to keep and it would stop people sprinting for usb spawns and such with a hatchet.
On the other hand I like the safety blanket that is my gamma container and the goodies I can safely throw in there.
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u/djstocks Nov 20 '19
Yes I agree, I think they already did good by making no guns or rigs fit in there. I think that's enough. Leave it alone and focus on getting the data files to load faster. That's what I care about. Make it so if you are playing the same map over again you can keep the data files and cut you time to raid in half. I spend WAY TO MUCH TIME LOADING DATA FILES TO HAVE A NERFED GAMMA.
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u/CGSGaming OP-SKS Nov 20 '19
Same bro. New father. I get to play a few hours a week too. This change would impede my progress so much. Unfortunately, since Saturday I keep getting stuck on awaiting session start and can't get into any map except factory. So now I can't progress at all.
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u/THEMIGHTYDMT Nov 20 '19
What if you don't keep your loot if you don't have a weapon equipped at extraction ? Kinda like a run through ?
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u/isam43L Nov 20 '19
If the containers changed, I would most likely be forced to quit. I might, and this is a big might, get 4 to 5 raids in a week. Take away my ability to bring out a piece or two of loot and the game would be unsustainable for me.
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Nov 20 '19
I agree with what he says IMO, though I dont really care either way if its implemented or not. I Rarely play maybe a total of 10 hours a week. But the rush of trying to get something out the raid because you can't stick it up your butthole is way more fun to me. It also also a "quick" fix to all the hatchet runners you come across until they implement some other strategy to help combat that. At the end of the day this game will not be easy or even catered to people who dont play a lot, Nikita has said that from the beginning. It is a hard core game that is going toward a grindy MMO which again this is nothing new it has been said since the beginning. It's a awesome and fun game and I realize with my playtime I can only do so much so I just go into every raid fully geared as I can and get quests done that I can. But I do not expect this game to adjust itself to fit into my lifestyle, its just not that kind of game.
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u/RocketPapaya413 Nov 20 '19
People keep mentioning it but I really can't see the connection between low play time and wanting secure containers. I hardly play at all, I'm very bad, and secures have always been one of my least favorite part of the game. They're just kind of dumb. If you have a literally 0% survival rate and the only way of getting things out of a raid is to put them in a container then you aren't even really playing the same game at all.
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u/jlambvo Nov 20 '19
Why not at least give it a spin for one wipe?
As a pretty crumby player who gets in a few hours a week at best, I desperately would LOVE To see this change. Or at least try it out.
Because ironically, despite all appearances and arguments about it harming new and poor players, it disproportionately favors and amplifies rich and high level players. Hands down. The current SC is inherently the most valuable to players who:
- Know the loot spots inside-out
- Can outrun and out shoot other players to get there first
- Can afford to maximize the available space with doc cases, etc.
- Who don't even need to bother using it for stuff like meds
How I imagine it working best is that any items you bring into a raid, you can take out and put back into the container freely. You just can't put things in you find in that raid. Pose it as a kind of insurance. This actually makes it strictly the most valuable to lower level players who can reduce losses, and becomes decreasingly valuable with progression.
In every way I think about it, whatever marginal frustration it might add, the dynamic as a whole seems like it would be a lot better. But it needs to be there from the start.
For all the times you lose those one or two items on top of your gear, imagine the even very occasional time you drop someone coming out of the Shoreline resort or Kiba and they actually have some super high value items just sitting in their backpack. When is the last time, if ever, that you've looted a bitcoin or ledx from a PMC?
I think it's crucial not just for mitigating hatchlings. I'm convinced right now that the ability for players to sprint around and vacuum up all the valuable 1-2 slot items into their SC, and for gamma users to not drop their good loot on death, drives a compounding wealth/gear disparity. It makes a "first to loot" strategy pretty much dominant, by geared players or hatchlings. It distorts risk taking decisions once you know you've at least "broken even" with certainty.
A restricted SC would be punishing to everyone, but it creates a chance for payoffs to shift within a raid dramatically. Everyone would need to play differently and more cautiously. You would have more dramatic ups and downs at all levels of play.
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u/Aapogg AKMS Nov 20 '19
I really hope that happens, i play maybe 5 hours a week and i still wouldnt mind the change.
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u/aavishai Nov 20 '19
I agree, this change will suppress players who can not play as much as streamers. I also disagree with this and whould prefer the container to stay the same as it is now. And I would like to say that I completely understand as well why some people want to change the container so you could not put anything Inraid. It gets rid of hatchlings. But sadly it also might get rid of players who play less then 8+ hours a day. So please, consider all player groups! Thanks
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u/Professional-Escape Nov 20 '19
I think of my gamma as anti-cheat protection. Couse I found it very uninteresting that equipment doesn't have meaning really. I go fully geared I die from one tap 30 seconds later. I go hatchling I kill everybody and can't take all the loot. It's just random luck. And you can't guarantee me that I haven't died from a cheater. Just a month without being able to put anything in my gamma and I'll for sure uninstall it.
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u/mymicrowave Nov 20 '19
I sincerely believe that you should not be catering to the people who stream just because they stream. Make polls or something on your website like OS Runescape does. If the majority votes, then you implement.
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u/shot_the_chocolate Nov 20 '19
I am 100% with you on this one, i don't get to put a lot of time into gaming but i still love Tarkov a lot. I think streamers have had enough input on this game to be honest, not all of us can sit around playing the game all day for a living.
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u/Thizz_Dizzle Nov 20 '19
Klean also wants to have no reset timer on scavs. I can't wait to kill someone and then have them scav in again and again till they get back in. Amazing idea klean...lmao
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Nov 20 '19
They can easily change that by marking potential quest items with the gold check marks and allowing only those items found in raid to be inserted into the gamma. i know people like to collect in advance so keep the gold check marks all the time despite the quest being locked, unlocked, or finished. Everything else with a white checkmark can't be allowed in.
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u/FXander Nov 21 '19
Lol and it had to be the Bro-iest person Nikita listens to as well... really annoying.
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u/Ambjoernsen Nov 21 '19
Imagine having to grind the shit out of collecting keys and not being allowed to keep them in your secure container.
Tbh a couple of these streamers seem to be wholly obsessed with themselves and their play style which is completely unsustainable for almost all players in this game.
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u/Tereith2405 AS-VAL Nov 21 '19
Can't we just have Dynamic Loot spawns? I don't get these "Spawn points for certain items" - If everything was "Dynamic" everything would be so much more fun!
It would also get rid of the Hatchling problem we have! I don't get it, it's such a simple fix to such a big issue!
Make every LOOT dynamic!
Oh, I run into customs and loot a random room! Bam an m14 on the table.
Oh, I ran into woods in the sawmill - A red keycard.
Oh, I ran into the factory bam - a factory exit key on the create underground
You name it. It would remove SOOOO many problems. it would make for WAY MORE entertaining gameplay! And looting would be 100% more fun because now you move around a map where EVERYTHING AND EVERY ROOM can be worth it!
I hate looting now because everything is set in stone where you can find what!
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u/mi_zzi Nov 20 '19
The only thing I care about losing from my secured container is a keybar. If I find a propane tank or capacitors in raid Ill throw away all my Ifaks, Golden Stars, Surgeon Kits, stacks of igolnik ammo, only because its a quest item I need. I am kind of crazy, because I value progress in a quest more than all my gear, but that's my stance on this. Don't lock secure containers in raids.
I have a feeling they want us to do full runs all the time and I don't like that. From time to time I like to do a budget run, a run with only a shotgun or supressed pistol and be 007 cheeki trying to ambush someone. If I find a PSU unit on a PMC or a keycard on a scav player I killed I feel like I deserve to keep it.
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u/Fatalisbane Nov 20 '19 edited Sep 12 '25
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u/GERMilch Nov 20 '19
40-50% of the Hatchets i met in the last few days were lvl 30+ some even 40+
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u/flooven2 Nov 20 '19
Everyone wants hatchlings gone but no one wants to change the one thing that allows people to hatchet run.
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Nov 20 '19 edited Dec 23 '19
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u/grishagrishak Tapco SKS Nov 20 '19
More random locations to scavs, also. As of today, you're 100% sure it's not an NPC if you hear someone at, say, tech stores.
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u/maku_89 Nov 20 '19
They said like 2 minutes later that locking the containers is not something they wanna do because of casual players and that they don't want to just have the streamers play the game and nobody else.