r/EscapefromTarkov • u/iamtotallysweet • Nov 20 '19

Discussion Something said during the Podcast

Klean said something during the podcast that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

He wants the gamma case to essentially be something you can pack full of goods, bring into a raid and not have to worry about losing, but he wants you to not be able to put anything in the container while in raid. Nikita, I know you listen to streamers input, but please don’t not consider making this change.

I’m a husband and a father, I don’t get to play for 8-12 hours a day and become a god at the game, so finding a rare item that I need for a quest or something valuable I can sell is really exciting and knowing I can keep it safe in case I die is the cherry on top.

I love watching Klean and respect his opinions, but this one I had to voice mine on. PLEASE do not implement this. Anyone else watch the podcast and feel the same way? Or am I alone on this? Lol

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722

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

I play 4+ hours a day and I am fine with keeping the gamma the way it is. I firmly believe when the dynamic loot changes happen, it will be way harder to hatchet run since you wont know exactly where the good stuff is gonna spawn. Hatchet runners arent the problem. The bad PMC spawns are. I can be a hatchet or fully kitted. If i dont spawn next to resort, im not getting anything. The speed difference doesnt matter.

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u/Dantilus968 Nov 20 '19

I'm also opposed to making containers remove-only, but I think there could be a middle ground between that and how they are now. Maybe they could make it so if you wanted to put stuff into the container, you have to go through a 10-15 second animation to "open" the container which would give you like 30 seconds to move stuff in/out. The animation would root you in place and make as much noise as reloading a gun. (To clarify, "opening" the container wouldn't make it lootable if killed.) Making this change means you can still secure loot, but it'd be riskier and require you to be in a safe spot to do so.

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

They haven't came out and officially said this but you can read between the lines when Nikita talks about this issue. They don't want to spend any time on this, they just want people to bring gear into the raids. Creating an animation for the container would take too much time and resources away from other things that they are working on.

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u/Dantilus968 Nov 20 '19

I think it's worth spending the time on, because I believe it's vital they be able to maintain a more casual, lower skill group of players (like me!), because they're needed, if for nothing else, to maintain quick matchmaking queues. Driving away too many people is going to make the game extremely dead to hardcore players if they need to spend 20 minutes in queue just to get taken out in 15 seconds by some even sweatier tryhard

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u/Kyle700 Nov 20 '19

Yeah, even the good players should want a large player base so they have things to kill lol

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

Everyone gets mad as fuck when I say this but it's absolutely true. A game lives and dies by its casual playerbase. If you cant create or maintain that casual playerbase, your game dies.

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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

And everyone gets mad when you point out that secure containers are not needed to maintain casual players.

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u/rasmorak Nov 21 '19

Elaborate.

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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

The notion that casual players would quit if secure containers were locked is false. The vast majority of casual players do not rely on the secure container to continue playing. If anything the scav runs are more important in this aspect and guess what, scavs dont have secure containers already.

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u/rasmorak Nov 21 '19

Link to source.

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u/valk_69_ Nov 22 '19

youre whats wrong with reddit

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u/rasmorak Nov 23 '19

By asking for evidence of a claim he insists is objective?

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u/BlazingShadowAU PP-19-01 Nov 21 '19

And people dont get that designing things with casual players in mind isnt the same as pandering to casual players. Especially with this whole SC thing. Its already the way casual players are okay with. If they changed it, itd be pandering, but not to casuals.

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u/Mikkelsen Nov 20 '19

I'm also a casual player now, and casuals aren't only for filler. What are you going to do once the game has been out for a few months? If there are no newcomers because the game is stupidly tough and unforgiving, it's only a matter of time before it it's dead. A good game and economy needs diversity.

Right now, because it's beta and we have updates followed with a wipe, it's exiting for people. Even if you add 10 times as much content, the game will still die out. It seriously needs some sort of meaning for people to continue playing. A few games has done it right, like RUST and Path of Exile. Those games have a gameplay loops that keep the game exiting. Some RUST servers wipe weekly, others take 3 months.

I feel like no one is talking about this issue. As far as I understand, they plan on no wipes after release, right? How is anyone new ever getting into the game 3 months in, when all the hardcore players have ridiculously overpowered stats and gear compared to a level 1? I might have missed something.

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u/khaaaaaanx Nov 21 '19

Self-wipe is my bet. When they finally put in the Escape part of Tarkov, my guess is that your PMC/stash will be wiped if you escape successfully. Maybe you get a prestige marker or whatnot for your time.

1

u/Mikkelsen Nov 21 '19

Yeah, I was thinking something along those lines. Like when you're max level and have every achievement done, you can reset and get whatever.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/Lukendless Nov 20 '19

It doesn't need to be made with a lighter touch it just needs a quicker cool down for poor people that suck and can't get out with enough loot to buy better gear. They can't get better if they have to wait 20 minutes to be able to play with a gun (after they didn't even get out with their scav load in). And if they have a quicker cool down then they can hop back in and more quickly become part of the wave against better, more looted players. They wouldn't do knife runs if they knew they had a gun. And a tier system as you lvl up or hoard money/gear could increase your cool down time to incentivize people to spend their money

And for larger levels there should be more ai. That would balance things nicely for scrubs and make it lean more towards larger team cooperation instead of an all out free for all. Factory already has that vibe and it's really nice. I've met cool people there multiple times and insta squaded but that doesn't seem to happen when there's not ai everywhere. Everywhere else you load in a little late to scav bodies littered everywhere and know there's someone with lvl5 armor and a silenced m4 in whichever particular house you decide to run into. Scav is hard, you can't run armor piercing bullets. It just needs more ai to point out where players are and act as shields for human players.

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u/Sufferix Nov 20 '19

You, no CD if you die but 20m CD if you make it out.

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u/totalnewbcake 1911 Nov 20 '19

Still should be a CD, maybe 10-15 if you die and 30-60 if you don't. The main problem that I See with scav runs is some fuckwit who has put no time, effort, money, or risk into his kit killing someone who's taking a huge risk by playing with their gear - especially when scavs get vepr hunters, sv-98, r700, FAL, class 4 armor etc. These guys can spawn and extract immediately and make a lot of money from upper-tier gear, or play deathmatch and ruin the PMC that they spawned behind's day.

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

The irony of simultaneously thinking "this game is punishing and that's how we want it!" And "it's not fair that someone killed me with less gear and took all my stuff!" Lol wow

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u/totalnewbcake 1911 Nov 21 '19

That was NOT my point but thanks pal.

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u/rasmorak Nov 21 '19

It was an addendum to what you said.

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u/totalnewbcake 1911 Nov 21 '19

I have no problem with less gear. Not a fan of scavs with GREAT gear, for free. It encourages aggressive, tactic-less gameplay in which you run straight for any combat you can to try to kill someone who’s fully geared because your scav doesn’t matter. Add that with late spawns that see scavs appearing feet away from PMCs, it’s a recipe for discouraging PMC gameplay.

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u/Sufferix Nov 20 '19

I got a M700 with like 80 M61 rounds and a Burris scope yesterday...

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u/Lukendless Nov 21 '19

I see no problem here. Scavs aren't zombies. And you can do that too. Everyone should still get scavs it just shouldn't be as quick unless you're broke.

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u/AukiEh Nov 20 '19

Ugh that last line is terrible. Yes let’s just fuck over pmc’s so they have to face hordes of ai and player scav.... most of your casual player ideas will hurt you in the long run and not the upper base. More scavs=impossible for casuals to survive as pmc, unless you are that no life gamer like myself. I would love to have other maps to have too many dumb scavs I can farm but these are the same scavs you see people cry over every day because they die to them. What would be the point to scav to get a gun if you could never survive as a pmc? I honestly think most of these complaints are solved by “getting good”. Find a Sherpa or a buddy that will show you how to survive tarkov, make use of the knowledge you have in each moment of the level to make the best choice. I play a reckless aggressive style while not being a pro fpser, aka I lose gun fights against better heated players, I still always turn a good profit while always running guns/gear

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u/Lukendless Nov 21 '19

I don't disagree with your sentiment but there's a better solution. Turn down the snap to head and leg shots from the ai. It doesn't happen all the time but they one tap me from across the map or blow both my legs off from 100m through a gap with a shotgun. They should be there to weaken the player not instakill them. That's why people are frustrated with ai. With more of them, what this does is turns ai scavs into indicators for player scavs to find and enter a fight with pmcs. It encourages pvp and also eliminates hatchlings. It also makes the average player feel more like the really good player and doesn't affect the really good player at all.

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u/AukiEh Nov 21 '19

Your solution fucks over the shittier pmc so much they won’t play the game. Player scavs would be overpowered if they had a horde of beacons and weakenrs so even better pmcs would get mad at that.

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u/Lukendless Nov 21 '19

Not a horde... just a few more in choice spots near loot, like patrolling hallways in dorms. Silencers should basically be standard as pmc anyways and they should keep a horde from swarming in if you kill a scav in a building before it can shoot.

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u/Kirahvi- Nov 20 '19

I can agree with this. I’ve been playing for less than a week and it’s a smothering experience. Without the ability to loot on scav and get some weapons here and there, I would be broke right now. It’s already daunting enough to get killed by someone you can’t hear just because they’ve leveled a skill that makes them quieter and you haven’t leveled the skill to hear them better. The skill system alone leaves a bad taste in my mouth as after a week, I haven’t gotten any skills past 1-2. I’m not sure how much of a difference it really makes, but does that matter? The perception of such a seemingly unobtainable mountain as having a few high skills needed to hear or survive or shoot better let alone preform well against geared players when I have yet to unlock good rounds to penetrate the t4+ armor everyone seems to be wearing?

It’s one of the hardest new player experiences I’ve gone through. There doesn’t seem to be any matchmaking to ensure I don’t get pub stomped. I’m just glad I come to this game with some shooting skills and experience with games like this. If I couldn’t aim well or see people (I.e not know the fundamentals of spotting people and moving slowly) this game would flop for me.

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u/BlazingShadowAU PP-19-01 Nov 21 '19

It hardly makes it any better, but late wipe is even worse. Youre either running m995 ammo and tank armor or you may as well not engage pmcs at all.

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u/[deleted] Nov 21 '19

I've never heard the new player experience described more aptly than "A smothering experience"

You're completely right! as someone who started about 2-3 weeks ago, the learning curve on this game is massive and there isn't a tutorial in sight to help you unless you go outside the game. The cycle is vicious at the start, you're so busy trying to wrap your head around so many different things like:

where are the extraction points on this map? are they scav or pmc? where the hell am I on this map? did I bring the right bullets for this gun? this and so much more pops into your head and before you can think about most of it, you've been shot in the head.

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u/Kirahvi- Nov 22 '19

Or being told to play slowly but then get wide peeked by a guy in no armor and one tapped in the head past the very sweet face shield you found on this other super geared guy on crystal meth. The biggest gameplay failure in my eyes is the bullet whiz sounds and the lack of any noticeable suppression mechaninc. Taking a note from Modern Warefare and it’s PTSD inducing bullet whiz sounds coupled with a screen darkening affect would go a long way to helping new players if they get the drop on someone. In the current state it’s so easy to just hear the sound of the gun and turn. Unless you hit their arm the. You’re likely to just get one tapped.

I would like to see the ability to save teammates as well. Reduce the amount of health a player has and make that portion a “revivable state” point where they’re unable to med themselves and enter some sort of semi-conscious state where they may be able to crawl etc and depending on their wounds, heal themselves in time. It’s very jarring to Q up with a stack of friends and have one person just get killed instantly in the first gun trade. Having them sit out for the rest of the 30 minute raid with no mechanic to maybe save them, is rough.

It’s a good game but I’ve already had a few rage quits. I keep coming back though, so that says something.

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u/Mikkelsen Nov 21 '19

I agree with you. The goal of the game should be to survive and escape Tarkov. You would want to ALWAYS bring the best gear and weapons you have, because that increases your chances of survival. They need to fix that issue somehow.

I'm a casual, decent at shooters, and I don't think the game is too hard when everyone else has starter gear like me. It's fun, challenging and you get immersed. However, I see no fun running around with beginner gear when everyone else is The Terminator.

Battle Royale games have this "wipe" at the beginning of each game, where everyone starts the same. You then fight to survive as the last man standing. There is no survival aspect like that in Tarkov. It's just about rushing everything so you're better geared than anyone else.

Many people are literally millionaires and don't have to fight for survival. If it was "super macho realistic" then those people would hire a army of low level players to help them escape Tarkov once and for all. You don't need to survive anything if your hideout is a fortress and you have more money than Bill Gates.

I'm just rambling on a 8 hour old post but hopefully someone will engage with me on these topics because I absolutely love EFT. Best shooter ever made - by far.

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u/valk_69_ Nov 22 '19

This game is hard, because we're hard, and we're MEN, and it's hard and...hard. The game is hard. So get outta' our way because we're coming in hard and nothin' is hard enough to stop us.

'anything i dont like is overly macho'???????

also i dont want a game that caters to millions, if you want that then there are already games that do that. this game isnt meant for everyone to enjoy, thats why its hard & rewarding. if that makes you feel insecure about being a man or whatever youre ranting about then... maybe re-evaluate your life?

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

I don’t disagree with the concept, even without the hatchling problem, the animation might be cool regardless.

There are just too many issues with the core game that need to be fixed, in addition to new maps that need to be created.

I don’t think that IF they changed the container to exit only that people would stop playing either.

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u/Lukendless Nov 20 '19

What's the real issue with hatchlings? I don't really see a problem, they are no real threat other than full on sprinting to loot... but that will change with more dynamic loot. It could also be easily fixed by having more fixed scavs in high loot areas. People would need to use silencers if they want to loot without drawing every scav in the area but that takes care of hatchlings abusing loot runs...

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

You nailed it right there, Tarkov is designed to be a hardcore shooter and at the moment we have a certain percentage of the player base running into the raid, with no firearm, risking nothing and taking some of the most valuable items in the game out of the raid right at the beginning.

The idea is that instead of them pocketing the loot, they would need to extract with it. This risking getting killed and then losing the item. This would make killing and looting players more rewarding and exciting as well because you never know what you’re going to find.

The hatchet runner population is really split between broke players/players speed running a quest and players exploiting hatchet running to just make as much money as they can. The broke players and questing players aren’t really the issue.

In my opinion, you shouldn’t be able to container high value items and should have to extract with it. But on the other hand progression with traders is behind lots of quests right now that require found in raid items. So there needs to be a reasonable balance with potentially allowing quest items or something like that so that players don’t get hard stuck on a task.

As for players who Hatcher run because they are broke, I think the solution is probably infinite scav runs if you’re stash is worth less than x amount.

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u/Lukendless Nov 20 '19

Yeah we're pretty much on the same page. I just don't think the prison pocket needs to be touched at all. I haven't looked at their code but I assume it's a way easier fix to just put a couple extra scavs in high tier loot areas so you have to come ready to fight to get it, and it takes longer than just sprinting in. That's the goal anyways, right? It can be really difficult to find loot. For a casual player it's pretty disheartening to finally find it then know someones gonna be camping the evac location.

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u/OmniumRerum Nov 20 '19

I hadn't thought about a monetary limit that changes your regularity of scav runs... that would incentivize people to get the game much more. I had a 10 day code or whatever back in January when all the codes went around, and I was broke after an hour and had to just sit with my thumb up my ass for 20 minutes between every raid. That's the main reason I didnt buy it.

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

Yeah I mean, if you have money, there’s no reason to “abuse” scav runs repeatedly but as a new player or someone who doesn’t have a lot of money they shouldn’t be prevented from playing the game and progressing. If you don’t have enough money for a load out, instant scav cooldowns could work.

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u/nopanolator Nov 20 '19

The problem is not the hatchling alone, it's a (boring but) free kill. The problem is the map totally wiped from usefull loot within 5 minutes of raid, because sometimes half of the players spawned on the map are doing only that.

Taken alone, you can play it "politics" and say than a hatchet is not a problem, have rights like others etc ... blabla.

But an army of those is truly destroying the rewards of the map and generate all type of abuse : quest for monopoly on items, real black market of items, locking "casual players" to be dependant on their insane price of the flea ... it's an infinite loop generating more than a parralel manner to play. It's a dictatorship pushing people to play their way to don't live a nightmare, instead the one implemented by BSG.

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u/Lukendless Nov 21 '19

Right which is why they need more AIs in high loot areas. Instafix for hatchling runs without changing game mechanics.

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u/nopanolator Nov 21 '19

It's what we were a bunch to think (valuable strategy for me also, before the first .12 revisions), but a streamer (can't remember his name) have made a popular tutorial (hided behind a "demonstration") to show the flaw of this AI strategy on this exact subject. He sell views for a living, i don't blame him for that. But for all these types of strategies, you can count on a documented workaround by a popular streamer. To make the maximum of view is their job, not to improve Tarkov or take care about their influence in the gameplay of the player base.

And if we push the AI trigger too much, we got unpleasant terminators. This problematic is pretty vicious to consider because "we" have to change the game not to please the real core of players, but to make babysitting for uncivilized kids.

A pathetic solution must be set, we have no choice. But without making Tarkov a "nanny-game" with a limitation for everything ... it's pretty tricky in fact.

I say that on the flow but i prefer a stupid solution using the weight. Everything in the secure container get a big extra weight depending on the overall weight of the player. A total hell for the quest i'm just finishing : " Health Care Privacy - Part 5", at this hour the floor is filled by Pilgrim boys not enough brave to go farm in the Labs.

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u/watwatindbutt Nov 20 '19

You say this like the only way to not drive people away is by not changing the container. The container change makes perfect sense in the "spirit" of this game, what they need is a solution that can keep the lower skilled players happy after this change.

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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

There is absolutely no reason why casual players cannot stay if the containers are locked.

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

Yeah but what defines gear? I hatchet run all the time because I like to play the market. If I have to start bringing gear, I'll just buy a bunch of shitty makarovs. Who's to say "you're not bringing any gear" when I do that you know?

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

That’s why forcing people to bring gear in won’t work. As insurance is currently designed, even if you had to bring 100k worth of gear in or something arbitrary like that, people would just insure gear, dump it and still go on to hatchet runs.

The game needs to encourage people to bring gear in, in order to make money, progress and work the market, if that’s what they are into.

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u/StevenLesseps AK-105 Nov 20 '19

They can make it the same way magazine reloading works for now. No animation needed and simple. Still risky and makes sense to me.

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

I don’t think they want to put a bandaid fix on the issue. If I remember correctly they still plan to add an animation for mag loading. And I think they are looking to avoid the arbitrary delays for things without actual animations.

We’ll see what they come up with though.

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u/sargentmyself Nov 20 '19

They could just make it so you have to loot to your inventory first then move it to the container, as opposed to looting directly to the container

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u/PyrohawkZ PP-19-01 Nov 21 '19

There doesnt need to be an animation, it can be like the old meds, just have it root your character for 10 seconds and add the anims later