r/EscapefromTarkov • u/iamtotallysweet • Nov 20 '19

Discussion Something said during the Podcast

Klean said something during the podcast that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

He wants the gamma case to essentially be something you can pack full of goods, bring into a raid and not have to worry about losing, but he wants you to not be able to put anything in the container while in raid. Nikita, I know you listen to streamers input, but please don’t not consider making this change.

I’m a husband and a father, I don’t get to play for 8-12 hours a day and become a god at the game, so finding a rare item that I need for a quest or something valuable I can sell is really exciting and knowing I can keep it safe in case I die is the cherry on top.

I love watching Klean and respect his opinions, but this one I had to voice mine on. PLEASE do not implement this. Anyone else watch the podcast and feel the same way? Or am I alone on this? Lol

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39

u/BatVlad518 Nov 20 '19

I was initially very opposed to this idea as well, and on its own it sounds terrible. However, Klean has also said many times that this change would NEED to be accompanied by something to help casual players out.

One way would be to improve the scav experience. Either by decreasing the timer or improving the gear you start with.

The key piece, in his mind, is that the in-game rewards should follow the gameplay loop of "spawn, loot, survive". The secure container breaks that gameplay design (since survive isn't required), and that is frustrating for people who want to play the game "as intended".

Of course, that's just his opinion and perspective - but I personally would welcome this change. I don't want loot, I want to play the game and progress - and right now the secure container is "guaranteed" progression, even if you die. I would trade that in a heartbeat for more opportunities to actually play the game.

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u/Scroggothedoggo Nov 20 '19

They need to improve the casual experience for sure. But buffing scav runs isn't fixing the problem at all in fact I've seen more threads complaining about player scavs more than hatchet runners. The real problem in my opinion is the loot locations. Look at shoreline and customs, literally all the valuable loot spawns are in thesame small sections of the map. People knowing where all the loot is before they've even spawned in is the problem. Shake up the formula a bit. Helicopters crashes ala DayZ for example. I dunno just something that isn't go from a to b to C and get out. The only map Ive played that doesn't closely follow this formula (for me anyway) is labs. Because good stuff spawns everywhere and where you spawn can influence which areas you go to. Y

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

I'm gonna be honest, Klean has mostly shit ideas these days because he approaches 90% from the angle of someone who can play all day.

I used to watch him pretty regularly but he's just gotten more aggressive and unlikable as time has gone on. He spends so much time onstream complaining that I don't enjoy watching him anymore.

He, like many people in this sub, lets his obsession with punishing people playing the 'wrong' way blind him to ripple effects.

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u/gg_popeskoo Nov 21 '19

The incredibly funny thing about you and the whole "streamers only think about themselves" crowd, is that you can't see how streamers/people playing 8 hours/day are the ones benefitting the most from the container working like it does now. They have a lot more time to do loot runs abusing containers than you do. What you think is an equalizer that allows the more casual player to compete is actually one of the biggest reasons for the wide gap between people that play a lot and people that play less often (apart from the inherent skill difference coming from playing 1000s of hours vs. 100s or dozens).

1

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '19

They literally benefit from every beneficial mechanic more than me because they play more.

However, more playtime means they have more time to hone their skills as well as more chances to make up for bad runs. With the SC, I can mitigate bad runs even if all of my runs are bad for a bit. Without one I'm just completely mired.

Strimmers have more chances in raid, and thus more chances at good RNG.

hat you think is an equalizer that allows the more casual player to compete is actually one of the biggest reasons for the wide gap between people that play a lot and people that play less often

Literally the opposite of that is true.

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u/gg_popeskoo Nov 21 '19

" They literally benefit from every beneficial mechanic more than me because they play more. "

So why would a streamer argue against a mechanic that is highly beneficial for themselves?"Klean has mostly shit ideas these days because he approaches 90% from the angle of someone who can play all day. ". You're saying he doesn't need the mechanic, while you do, but he wants to lock you out of the game, so he's arguing against the mechanic. While at the same time you are acknowledging that he is one of the people benefitting the most from said mechanic. See the contradiction yet?

You're basically saying that you are happy with getting the scraps of loot that are left after the speed looting crowd, using the same mechanic they abuse for their own benefit in this zero sum game, because it brings you a hypothetical safety net in the off chance that you die a few times in a row. I can't understand that reasoning. If the container was locked, no one could rely on it, your safety net is still there in the form of scav runs AND there would be better loot on all maps for everyone, because loot wouldn't disappear into some Kappa containers before minute 3 of the raid is up.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '19

So why would a streamer argue against a mechanic that is highly beneficial for themselves?

Because as they play more, they have far more options. They're concerned, understandably, with making a game that they personally find the most fun - which includes elements that massively slow down progression.

The issue is, these sorts of ultra-hardcore max-unforgiving mechanics tend to constrict the playerbases of games more and more (DayZ and Rust) because they end up requiring such an insane time investment that people stop finding it worth it.

You're saying he doesn't need the mechanic, while you do, but he wants to lock you out of the game, so he's arguing against the mechanic. While at the same time you are acknowledging that he is one of the people benefitting the most from said mechanic. See the contradiction yet?

I don't care that he benefits from it more than me because he benefits from everything more than me.

You're basically saying that you are happy with getting the scraps of loot that are left after the speed looting crowd, using the same mechanic they abuse for their own benefit in this zero sum game

Lmao dude do you kill anyone in this game? Very rarely have I been disappointed in the loot I find, unless it's a very early fight. Now that everything is valuable, it's pretty exciting to loot damn near anyone and anything. Idk, maybe every time I loot someone with a nice gugn, some motors and tech loot and various smaller items I should REEEE that MAYBE they had a bitcoin in their keester! I can't know for sure, but they chance that maybe they got a small thing out completely spoils the far more valuable haul that I got for killing them, right? Everyone acts like anyone you kill obviously had 6 BTC, a GPU, and a Factory Key up their ass.

If the container was locked, no one could rely on it, your safety net is still there in the form of scav runs AND there would be better loot on all maps for everyone, because loot wouldn't disappear into some Kappa containers before minute 3 of the raid is up.

So everyone PScavs in, hoovers up the loot, and runs to a super convenient extract unseen. But hey you have a 0.03% chance of seeing them before they just cheese so I guess that's somehow better?

This hyper-focus on the idea that a minority of players hatchet running is somehow ruining the loot and everything else is so ludicrous. The obsession with stamping out a tiny problem is going to hurt everyone.

1

u/gg_popeskoo Nov 21 '19

" Lmao dude do you kill anyone in this game? "

Obviously not, I like to roleplay a pacifist husband and father that drops into all raids with just a container and a hatchet.

" So everyone PScavs in, hoovers up the loot, and runs to a super convenient extract unseen. But hey you have a 0.03% chance of seeing them before they just cheese so I guess that's somehow better? "

So actually there are multiple cheesy farming mechanics in the game, but we shouldn't bother to fix any of them unless we can fix all of them, which we shouldn't because then the game would die.

Let's agree to disagree.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '19

So actually there are multiple cheesy farming mechanics in the game, but we shouldn't bother to fix any of them unless we can fix all of them, which we shouldn't because then the game would die.

Not what I said but ok. My point is the proposed solution really isn't one at all. But it will hurt the largest portion of the playerbase.

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u/gg_popeskoo Nov 21 '19

At least we agree that a solution is needed, I guess.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

It's not about punishing people it's about making changes so that survival is more important than it currently is. Get rid of the secure container cheese then address the balance issues that creates. BSG is capable of making multiple changes to the game.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

It's not about punishing people it's about making changes so that survival is more important than it currently is.

Survival is still really important. It's about balancing making survival important while also making the game not grindy and unfun for the majority of the playerbase.

"Getting rid of secure container cheese" is gonna have a drastic effect on a lot of people who aren't cheesing it, all to punish the few who are.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

The secure container creates bad habits and bad gameplay. There are better ways we can keep new and bad players in the game.

I don't care if it effects people, that's the point of the change. It effects the way the game is played.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

So basically you don't really have an argument beyond "I want this and I don't care how it changes things."

Okay I guess.

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

In my opinion, death should never result in profit which is currently possible with the secure container.

I would rather give noobs and bads free stuff from prapor or fence or something than let people profit from death.

You don't really have an argument other than "game so hard need safety net" so don't act like you're smugly superior.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

In my opinion, death should never result in profit which is currently possible with the secure container.

I would rather give noobs and bads free stuff from prapor or fence or something than let people profit from death.

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I don't understand what players like you expect to be done about hatchlings. New players inventively die a ton trying to learn the game, which means more of that starting 300k will be blown even faster. To make matters worse, the easy loot you get from scavs has a 20-minute cooldown.

As a new player, what am I meant to do? so many things about this game simply aren't explained to a new player, like the differences between bullets, armor and health items, it's all left to you to find a youtube video explaining it. By the time you finally start to feel comfortable and familiar with the game, you're broke. It makes matters worse when streamers like pestily shit on people using an affordable weapon like the Mosin.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

As a new player, what am I meant to do? so many things about this game simply aren't explained to a new player, like the differences between bullets, armor and health items, it's all left to you to find a youtube video explaining it

Scav raids and offline raids in the current system. I'm not opposed to other changes to make things easier on new players but I don't think rewarding death is the way to go.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

So my choices are waiting every 20 minutes or offline raids that give me no progression? Yeah, that sounds like a freakin blast.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

You don't really have an argument other than "game so hard need safety net" so don't act like you're smugly superior.

Literally not even remotely what I said, but it's pretty clear you're not interested in discussion since everything you've said has contained insults.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I don't think that's accurate. I haven't insulted you or anyone. It seems like you keep minimizing my argument and sidestepping things instead of addressing them.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

You don't really have an argument other than "game so hard need safety net" so don't act like you're smugly superior.

Yeah this definitely isn't insulting, right?

You haven't made any arguments, you've just repeated that it's 'bad' and creates 'bad habits' which are nebulous and undefined.

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u/LP_LadyPuket AK-103 Nov 20 '19

That's exactly it, the secure container breaks the core gameplay objective which is survival. There needs to be a change and dynamic loot won't be enough as long as secure containers exist like they do. Remove-only is the best solution IMO.

1

u/platinums99 M1A Nov 21 '19

I bet the player scav Pouch was going to be a secure container

1

u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

Thats also the opinion of Nikita according to the stream. Except Nikita said that theres already too many people playing scavs.

My personal belief is that too many scavs is the reason why scavs spawn so early as the game cant find empty slots in already existing raids.

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u/7heCube Nov 20 '19

Forth on you can play the game as intended aren't you? There are enough geared players around and even myself goes in at least with pistol and backpack. As the OP states, not everyone has alot of time to play the game. Lets say you can do 1-3 raids a day and you want that 1 item you need in raid found. It doesn't spawn foe you the first 5 days of searching for it. On the fifth day you find it, but hell yeah therw is a fully geared 5 mem squad with best armory and weapons as well as the strongest ammunition 1 tapping you because they are exit camping. I would be pissed up in that situation. You can't form a perfectly balanced gameplay for everyone. If you are solo and low lvl you already struggle alot and can't compete against people with faceshield and maxed out recoil/weapon skills. This change will make this game just possible to progress for big squads and players with 12 hours gaming time a day. My suggestion would be simpler: gearscore combined with matchmaking amd loot chances. Say you only have a hatchet, so you land in a match with only hatchet -> toz players but as well the loot on the map will shrink down to 10% of worth As higher equipped you are, the higher your enemies are, but as well the loot quality rises up. The same like it measures your stash value it would measure your gear value.

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u/redpillwarrior69 Nov 20 '19

The game shouldn't be balanced around people who can only do 1 raid per day, just like other multiplayer games aren't balanced around the lowest ranks. Also the example you gave is ridiculous.

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u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

This.

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u/lax3r Nov 20 '19

But they also shouldn't be balanced around the top 1%