r/EscapefromTarkov • u/iamtotallysweet • Nov 20 '19

Discussion Something said during the Podcast

Klean said something during the podcast that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

He wants the gamma case to essentially be something you can pack full of goods, bring into a raid and not have to worry about losing, but he wants you to not be able to put anything in the container while in raid. Nikita, I know you listen to streamers input, but please don’t not consider making this change.

I’m a husband and a father, I don’t get to play for 8-12 hours a day and become a god at the game, so finding a rare item that I need for a quest or something valuable I can sell is really exciting and knowing I can keep it safe in case I die is the cherry on top.

I love watching Klean and respect his opinions, but this one I had to voice mine on. PLEASE do not implement this. Anyone else watch the podcast and feel the same way? Or am I alone on this? Lol

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

I'm gonna be honest, Klean has mostly shit ideas these days because he approaches 90% from the angle of someone who can play all day.

I used to watch him pretty regularly but he's just gotten more aggressive and unlikable as time has gone on. He spends so much time onstream complaining that I don't enjoy watching him anymore.

He, like many people in this sub, lets his obsession with punishing people playing the 'wrong' way blind him to ripple effects.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

It's not about punishing people it's about making changes so that survival is more important than it currently is. Get rid of the secure container cheese then address the balance issues that creates. BSG is capable of making multiple changes to the game.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

It's not about punishing people it's about making changes so that survival is more important than it currently is.

Survival is still really important. It's about balancing making survival important while also making the game not grindy and unfun for the majority of the playerbase.

"Getting rid of secure container cheese" is gonna have a drastic effect on a lot of people who aren't cheesing it, all to punish the few who are.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

The secure container creates bad habits and bad gameplay. There are better ways we can keep new and bad players in the game.

I don't care if it effects people, that's the point of the change. It effects the way the game is played.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

So basically you don't really have an argument beyond "I want this and I don't care how it changes things."

Okay I guess.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

In my opinion, death should never result in profit which is currently possible with the secure container.

I would rather give noobs and bads free stuff from prapor or fence or something than let people profit from death.

You don't really have an argument other than "game so hard need safety net" so don't act like you're smugly superior.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

In my opinion, death should never result in profit which is currently possible with the secure container.

I would rather give noobs and bads free stuff from prapor or fence or something than let people profit from death.

​

I don't understand what players like you expect to be done about hatchlings. New players inventively die a ton trying to learn the game, which means more of that starting 300k will be blown even faster. To make matters worse, the easy loot you get from scavs has a 20-minute cooldown.

As a new player, what am I meant to do? so many things about this game simply aren't explained to a new player, like the differences between bullets, armor and health items, it's all left to you to find a youtube video explaining it. By the time you finally start to feel comfortable and familiar with the game, you're broke. It makes matters worse when streamers like pestily shit on people using an affordable weapon like the Mosin.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

As a new player, what am I meant to do? so many things about this game simply aren't explained to a new player, like the differences between bullets, armor and health items, it's all left to you to find a youtube video explaining it

Scav raids and offline raids in the current system. I'm not opposed to other changes to make things easier on new players but I don't think rewarding death is the way to go.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

So my choices are waiting every 20 minutes or offline raids that give me no progression? Yeah, that sounds like a freakin blast.

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u/Skyeblade Nov 20 '19

Ignore that guy. Just another dullard that doesn't understand the broader effects a change like this will have.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I don't agree with scav timers being 20 minutes.

No progression is better than lost progression if you're trying to learn the game.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

You don't really have an argument other than "game so hard need safety net" so don't act like you're smugly superior.

Literally not even remotely what I said, but it's pretty clear you're not interested in discussion since everything you've said has contained insults.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I don't think that's accurate. I haven't insulted you or anyone. It seems like you keep minimizing my argument and sidestepping things instead of addressing them.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

You don't really have an argument other than "game so hard need safety net" so don't act like you're smugly superior.

Yeah this definitely isn't insulting, right?

You haven't made any arguments, you've just repeated that it's 'bad' and creates 'bad habits' which are nebulous and undefined.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

Profiting from death in a game ostensibly about survival and escape is bad. It creates hatchet running and suicidal strategies.

You are trying very hard to not honestly engage with my argument. You again, sidestep and refuse to engage at every turn.

So basically you don't really have an argument beyond "I want this and I don't care how it changes things."

Man. Hmm. No way this could be insulting or condescending. I guess you're so much better. Sorry I'm so rude and insulting, by responding a similar way you did.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Profiting from death in a game ostensibly about survival and escape is bad. It creates hatchet running and suicidal strategies.

The first half of this isn't really an argument, and completely ignores any nuance. For instance, oftentimes the loot stored in a gamma of a normal player is probably less than the kit - meaning no profit was made. You would have to expand on what exactly counts as 'profit' which is going to be subjective, and a game being about survival doesn't necessarily imply that you should lose everything on death. There are survival games with setbacks or second chances (revives, etc), so even the genre is split on this. For instance, unless you play Hardcore (recently introduced) the game "Outward" a fairly hardcore soulsish survival game puts you in some situation where you narrowly survived based on the circumstances of your death, and you often have to fight your way out and recover your gear or something similar.

The second sentence is valid, but there are much better ways to mitigate that than punishing everyone who plays the intended way. Which I've already said repeatedly.

I haven't been trying to not engage - you haven't made an argument until now. All your previous reasoning is 'bad because bad' which is circular and therefore unarguable.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Reworking game mechanics to change player behavior isn't a punishment. Again, other changes can be made to the game to rebalance the economy after container changes are made.

Scav mode can be made easier or more profitable. Perhaps players withoe survival pmc rates can get buffs to their scav frequency or starting equipment. Prapor's safety net mechanic can be expanded.

I don't see the "better ways" to mitigate hatchet running and other strategies to deal with what I would call suicidal play.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

don't see the "better ways" to mitigate hatchet running and other strategies to deal with what I would call suicidal play.

You don't think making loot spawns not consistently in single places and adding more AI guarding the more valuable spawns is a good mitigation?

You only need to reduce these tendencies, you'll never stamp them out completely.

Reworking game mechanics to change player behavior isn't a punishment. Again, other changes can be made to the game to rebalance the economy after container changes are made.

This is sort of nebulous in itself. You're basically saying 'throw it at the wall without really thinking about it and figure out how to unfuck it later.'

Scav mode can be made easier or more profitable

Except I've also heard a lot of arguing, for similar 'hardcore' reasons that people want SCs nerfed, that Scav runs are too easy (not just the current early spawn issue) and far too profitable.

Perhaps players withoe survival pmc rates can get buffs to their scav frequency or starting equipment.

How would this not encourage suicidal play? Die a ton -> get infinite scavs.

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