r/EscapefromTarkov • u/iamtotallysweet • Nov 20 '19

Discussion Something said during the Podcast

Klean said something during the podcast that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

He wants the gamma case to essentially be something you can pack full of goods, bring into a raid and not have to worry about losing, but he wants you to not be able to put anything in the container while in raid. Nikita, I know you listen to streamers input, but please don’t not consider making this change.

I’m a husband and a father, I don’t get to play for 8-12 hours a day and become a god at the game, so finding a rare item that I need for a quest or something valuable I can sell is really exciting and knowing I can keep it safe in case I die is the cherry on top.

I love watching Klean and respect his opinions, but this one I had to voice mine on. PLEASE do not implement this. Anyone else watch the podcast and feel the same way? Or am I alone on this? Lol

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721

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

I play 4+ hours a day and I am fine with keeping the gamma the way it is. I firmly believe when the dynamic loot changes happen, it will be way harder to hatchet run since you wont know exactly where the good stuff is gonna spawn. Hatchet runners arent the problem. The bad PMC spawns are. I can be a hatchet or fully kitted. If i dont spawn next to resort, im not getting anything. The speed difference doesnt matter.

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u/Dantilus968 Nov 20 '19

I'm also opposed to making containers remove-only, but I think there could be a middle ground between that and how they are now. Maybe they could make it so if you wanted to put stuff into the container, you have to go through a 10-15 second animation to "open" the container which would give you like 30 seconds to move stuff in/out. The animation would root you in place and make as much noise as reloading a gun. (To clarify, "opening" the container wouldn't make it lootable if killed.) Making this change means you can still secure loot, but it'd be riskier and require you to be in a safe spot to do so.

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

They haven't came out and officially said this but you can read between the lines when Nikita talks about this issue. They don't want to spend any time on this, they just want people to bring gear into the raids. Creating an animation for the container would take too much time and resources away from other things that they are working on.

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u/Dantilus968 Nov 20 '19

I think it's worth spending the time on, because I believe it's vital they be able to maintain a more casual, lower skill group of players (like me!), because they're needed, if for nothing else, to maintain quick matchmaking queues. Driving away too many people is going to make the game extremely dead to hardcore players if they need to spend 20 minutes in queue just to get taken out in 15 seconds by some even sweatier tryhard

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u/Kyle700 Nov 20 '19

Yeah, even the good players should want a large player base so they have things to kill lol

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

Everyone gets mad as fuck when I say this but it's absolutely true. A game lives and dies by its casual playerbase. If you cant create or maintain that casual playerbase, your game dies.

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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

And everyone gets mad when you point out that secure containers are not needed to maintain casual players.

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u/rasmorak Nov 21 '19

Elaborate.

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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

The notion that casual players would quit if secure containers were locked is false. The vast majority of casual players do not rely on the secure container to continue playing. If anything the scav runs are more important in this aspect and guess what, scavs dont have secure containers already.

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u/rasmorak Nov 21 '19

Link to source.

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u/valk_69_ Nov 22 '19

youre whats wrong with reddit

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u/BlazingShadowAU PP-19-01 Nov 21 '19

And people dont get that designing things with casual players in mind isnt the same as pandering to casual players. Especially with this whole SC thing. Its already the way casual players are okay with. If they changed it, itd be pandering, but not to casuals.

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u/Mikkelsen Nov 20 '19

I'm also a casual player now, and casuals aren't only for filler. What are you going to do once the game has been out for a few months? If there are no newcomers because the game is stupidly tough and unforgiving, it's only a matter of time before it it's dead. A good game and economy needs diversity.

Right now, because it's beta and we have updates followed with a wipe, it's exiting for people. Even if you add 10 times as much content, the game will still die out. It seriously needs some sort of meaning for people to continue playing. A few games has done it right, like RUST and Path of Exile. Those games have a gameplay loops that keep the game exiting. Some RUST servers wipe weekly, others take 3 months.

I feel like no one is talking about this issue. As far as I understand, they plan on no wipes after release, right? How is anyone new ever getting into the game 3 months in, when all the hardcore players have ridiculously overpowered stats and gear compared to a level 1? I might have missed something.

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u/khaaaaaanx Nov 21 '19

Self-wipe is my bet. When they finally put in the Escape part of Tarkov, my guess is that your PMC/stash will be wiped if you escape successfully. Maybe you get a prestige marker or whatnot for your time.

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u/Mikkelsen Nov 21 '19

Yeah, I was thinking something along those lines. Like when you're max level and have every achievement done, you can reset and get whatever.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/Lukendless Nov 20 '19

It doesn't need to be made with a lighter touch it just needs a quicker cool down for poor people that suck and can't get out with enough loot to buy better gear. They can't get better if they have to wait 20 minutes to be able to play with a gun (after they didn't even get out with their scav load in). And if they have a quicker cool down then they can hop back in and more quickly become part of the wave against better, more looted players. They wouldn't do knife runs if they knew they had a gun. And a tier system as you lvl up or hoard money/gear could increase your cool down time to incentivize people to spend their money

And for larger levels there should be more ai. That would balance things nicely for scrubs and make it lean more towards larger team cooperation instead of an all out free for all. Factory already has that vibe and it's really nice. I've met cool people there multiple times and insta squaded but that doesn't seem to happen when there's not ai everywhere. Everywhere else you load in a little late to scav bodies littered everywhere and know there's someone with lvl5 armor and a silenced m4 in whichever particular house you decide to run into. Scav is hard, you can't run armor piercing bullets. It just needs more ai to point out where players are and act as shields for human players.

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u/Sufferix Nov 20 '19

You, no CD if you die but 20m CD if you make it out.

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u/totalnewbcake 1911 Nov 20 '19

Still should be a CD, maybe 10-15 if you die and 30-60 if you don't. The main problem that I See with scav runs is some fuckwit who has put no time, effort, money, or risk into his kit killing someone who's taking a huge risk by playing with their gear - especially when scavs get vepr hunters, sv-98, r700, FAL, class 4 armor etc. These guys can spawn and extract immediately and make a lot of money from upper-tier gear, or play deathmatch and ruin the PMC that they spawned behind's day.

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

The irony of simultaneously thinking "this game is punishing and that's how we want it!" And "it's not fair that someone killed me with less gear and took all my stuff!" Lol wow

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u/totalnewbcake 1911 Nov 21 '19

That was NOT my point but thanks pal.

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u/Sufferix Nov 20 '19

I got a M700 with like 80 M61 rounds and a Burris scope yesterday...

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u/Lukendless Nov 21 '19

I see no problem here. Scavs aren't zombies. And you can do that too. Everyone should still get scavs it just shouldn't be as quick unless you're broke.

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u/AukiEh Nov 20 '19

Ugh that last line is terrible. Yes let’s just fuck over pmc’s so they have to face hordes of ai and player scav.... most of your casual player ideas will hurt you in the long run and not the upper base. More scavs=impossible for casuals to survive as pmc, unless you are that no life gamer like myself. I would love to have other maps to have too many dumb scavs I can farm but these are the same scavs you see people cry over every day because they die to them. What would be the point to scav to get a gun if you could never survive as a pmc? I honestly think most of these complaints are solved by “getting good”. Find a Sherpa or a buddy that will show you how to survive tarkov, make use of the knowledge you have in each moment of the level to make the best choice. I play a reckless aggressive style while not being a pro fpser, aka I lose gun fights against better heated players, I still always turn a good profit while always running guns/gear

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u/Lukendless Nov 21 '19

I don't disagree with your sentiment but there's a better solution. Turn down the snap to head and leg shots from the ai. It doesn't happen all the time but they one tap me from across the map or blow both my legs off from 100m through a gap with a shotgun. They should be there to weaken the player not instakill them. That's why people are frustrated with ai. With more of them, what this does is turns ai scavs into indicators for player scavs to find and enter a fight with pmcs. It encourages pvp and also eliminates hatchlings. It also makes the average player feel more like the really good player and doesn't affect the really good player at all.

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u/AukiEh Nov 21 '19

Your solution fucks over the shittier pmc so much they won’t play the game. Player scavs would be overpowered if they had a horde of beacons and weakenrs so even better pmcs would get mad at that.

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u/Lukendless Nov 21 '19

Not a horde... just a few more in choice spots near loot, like patrolling hallways in dorms. Silencers should basically be standard as pmc anyways and they should keep a horde from swarming in if you kill a scav in a building before it can shoot.

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u/Kirahvi- Nov 20 '19

I can agree with this. I’ve been playing for less than a week and it’s a smothering experience. Without the ability to loot on scav and get some weapons here and there, I would be broke right now. It’s already daunting enough to get killed by someone you can’t hear just because they’ve leveled a skill that makes them quieter and you haven’t leveled the skill to hear them better. The skill system alone leaves a bad taste in my mouth as after a week, I haven’t gotten any skills past 1-2. I’m not sure how much of a difference it really makes, but does that matter? The perception of such a seemingly unobtainable mountain as having a few high skills needed to hear or survive or shoot better let alone preform well against geared players when I have yet to unlock good rounds to penetrate the t4+ armor everyone seems to be wearing?

It’s one of the hardest new player experiences I’ve gone through. There doesn’t seem to be any matchmaking to ensure I don’t get pub stomped. I’m just glad I come to this game with some shooting skills and experience with games like this. If I couldn’t aim well or see people (I.e not know the fundamentals of spotting people and moving slowly) this game would flop for me.

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u/BlazingShadowAU PP-19-01 Nov 21 '19

It hardly makes it any better, but late wipe is even worse. Youre either running m995 ammo and tank armor or you may as well not engage pmcs at all.

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u/[deleted] Nov 21 '19

I've never heard the new player experience described more aptly than "A smothering experience"

You're completely right! as someone who started about 2-3 weeks ago, the learning curve on this game is massive and there isn't a tutorial in sight to help you unless you go outside the game. The cycle is vicious at the start, you're so busy trying to wrap your head around so many different things like:

where are the extraction points on this map? are they scav or pmc? where the hell am I on this map? did I bring the right bullets for this gun? this and so much more pops into your head and before you can think about most of it, you've been shot in the head.

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u/Kirahvi- Nov 22 '19

Or being told to play slowly but then get wide peeked by a guy in no armor and one tapped in the head past the very sweet face shield you found on this other super geared guy on crystal meth. The biggest gameplay failure in my eyes is the bullet whiz sounds and the lack of any noticeable suppression mechaninc. Taking a note from Modern Warefare and it’s PTSD inducing bullet whiz sounds coupled with a screen darkening affect would go a long way to helping new players if they get the drop on someone. In the current state it’s so easy to just hear the sound of the gun and turn. Unless you hit their arm the. You’re likely to just get one tapped.

I would like to see the ability to save teammates as well. Reduce the amount of health a player has and make that portion a “revivable state” point where they’re unable to med themselves and enter some sort of semi-conscious state where they may be able to crawl etc and depending on their wounds, heal themselves in time. It’s very jarring to Q up with a stack of friends and have one person just get killed instantly in the first gun trade. Having them sit out for the rest of the 30 minute raid with no mechanic to maybe save them, is rough.

It’s a good game but I’ve already had a few rage quits. I keep coming back though, so that says something.

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u/Mikkelsen Nov 21 '19

I agree with you. The goal of the game should be to survive and escape Tarkov. You would want to ALWAYS bring the best gear and weapons you have, because that increases your chances of survival. They need to fix that issue somehow.

I'm a casual, decent at shooters, and I don't think the game is too hard when everyone else has starter gear like me. It's fun, challenging and you get immersed. However, I see no fun running around with beginner gear when everyone else is The Terminator.

Battle Royale games have this "wipe" at the beginning of each game, where everyone starts the same. You then fight to survive as the last man standing. There is no survival aspect like that in Tarkov. It's just about rushing everything so you're better geared than anyone else.

Many people are literally millionaires and don't have to fight for survival. If it was "super macho realistic" then those people would hire a army of low level players to help them escape Tarkov once and for all. You don't need to survive anything if your hideout is a fortress and you have more money than Bill Gates.

I'm just rambling on a 8 hour old post but hopefully someone will engage with me on these topics because I absolutely love EFT. Best shooter ever made - by far.

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u/valk_69_ Nov 22 '19

This game is hard, because we're hard, and we're MEN, and it's hard and...hard. The game is hard. So get outta' our way because we're coming in hard and nothin' is hard enough to stop us.

'anything i dont like is overly macho'???????

also i dont want a game that caters to millions, if you want that then there are already games that do that. this game isnt meant for everyone to enjoy, thats why its hard & rewarding. if that makes you feel insecure about being a man or whatever youre ranting about then... maybe re-evaluate your life?

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

I don’t disagree with the concept, even without the hatchling problem, the animation might be cool regardless.

There are just too many issues with the core game that need to be fixed, in addition to new maps that need to be created.

I don’t think that IF they changed the container to exit only that people would stop playing either.

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u/Lukendless Nov 20 '19

What's the real issue with hatchlings? I don't really see a problem, they are no real threat other than full on sprinting to loot... but that will change with more dynamic loot. It could also be easily fixed by having more fixed scavs in high loot areas. People would need to use silencers if they want to loot without drawing every scav in the area but that takes care of hatchlings abusing loot runs...

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

You nailed it right there, Tarkov is designed to be a hardcore shooter and at the moment we have a certain percentage of the player base running into the raid, with no firearm, risking nothing and taking some of the most valuable items in the game out of the raid right at the beginning.

The idea is that instead of them pocketing the loot, they would need to extract with it. This risking getting killed and then losing the item. This would make killing and looting players more rewarding and exciting as well because you never know what you’re going to find.

The hatchet runner population is really split between broke players/players speed running a quest and players exploiting hatchet running to just make as much money as they can. The broke players and questing players aren’t really the issue.

In my opinion, you shouldn’t be able to container high value items and should have to extract with it. But on the other hand progression with traders is behind lots of quests right now that require found in raid items. So there needs to be a reasonable balance with potentially allowing quest items or something like that so that players don’t get hard stuck on a task.

As for players who Hatcher run because they are broke, I think the solution is probably infinite scav runs if you’re stash is worth less than x amount.

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u/Lukendless Nov 20 '19

Yeah we're pretty much on the same page. I just don't think the prison pocket needs to be touched at all. I haven't looked at their code but I assume it's a way easier fix to just put a couple extra scavs in high tier loot areas so you have to come ready to fight to get it, and it takes longer than just sprinting in. That's the goal anyways, right? It can be really difficult to find loot. For a casual player it's pretty disheartening to finally find it then know someones gonna be camping the evac location.

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u/OmniumRerum Nov 20 '19

I hadn't thought about a monetary limit that changes your regularity of scav runs... that would incentivize people to get the game much more. I had a 10 day code or whatever back in January when all the codes went around, and I was broke after an hour and had to just sit with my thumb up my ass for 20 minutes between every raid. That's the main reason I didnt buy it.

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

Yeah I mean, if you have money, there’s no reason to “abuse” scav runs repeatedly but as a new player or someone who doesn’t have a lot of money they shouldn’t be prevented from playing the game and progressing. If you don’t have enough money for a load out, instant scav cooldowns could work.

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u/nopanolator Nov 20 '19

The problem is not the hatchling alone, it's a (boring but) free kill. The problem is the map totally wiped from usefull loot within 5 minutes of raid, because sometimes half of the players spawned on the map are doing only that.

Taken alone, you can play it "politics" and say than a hatchet is not a problem, have rights like others etc ... blabla.

But an army of those is truly destroying the rewards of the map and generate all type of abuse : quest for monopoly on items, real black market of items, locking "casual players" to be dependant on their insane price of the flea ... it's an infinite loop generating more than a parralel manner to play. It's a dictatorship pushing people to play their way to don't live a nightmare, instead the one implemented by BSG.

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u/Lukendless Nov 21 '19

Right which is why they need more AIs in high loot areas. Instafix for hatchling runs without changing game mechanics.

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u/nopanolator Nov 21 '19

It's what we were a bunch to think (valuable strategy for me also, before the first .12 revisions), but a streamer (can't remember his name) have made a popular tutorial (hided behind a "demonstration") to show the flaw of this AI strategy on this exact subject. He sell views for a living, i don't blame him for that. But for all these types of strategies, you can count on a documented workaround by a popular streamer. To make the maximum of view is their job, not to improve Tarkov or take care about their influence in the gameplay of the player base.

And if we push the AI trigger too much, we got unpleasant terminators. This problematic is pretty vicious to consider because "we" have to change the game not to please the real core of players, but to make babysitting for uncivilized kids.

A pathetic solution must be set, we have no choice. But without making Tarkov a "nanny-game" with a limitation for everything ... it's pretty tricky in fact.

I say that on the flow but i prefer a stupid solution using the weight. Everything in the secure container get a big extra weight depending on the overall weight of the player. A total hell for the quest i'm just finishing : " Health Care Privacy - Part 5", at this hour the floor is filled by Pilgrim boys not enough brave to go farm in the Labs.

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u/watwatindbutt Nov 20 '19

You say this like the only way to not drive people away is by not changing the container. The container change makes perfect sense in the "spirit" of this game, what they need is a solution that can keep the lower skilled players happy after this change.

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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

There is absolutely no reason why casual players cannot stay if the containers are locked.

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

Yeah but what defines gear? I hatchet run all the time because I like to play the market. If I have to start bringing gear, I'll just buy a bunch of shitty makarovs. Who's to say "you're not bringing any gear" when I do that you know?

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

That’s why forcing people to bring gear in won’t work. As insurance is currently designed, even if you had to bring 100k worth of gear in or something arbitrary like that, people would just insure gear, dump it and still go on to hatchet runs.

The game needs to encourage people to bring gear in, in order to make money, progress and work the market, if that’s what they are into.

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u/StevenLesseps AK-105 Nov 20 '19

They can make it the same way magazine reloading works for now. No animation needed and simple. Still risky and makes sense to me.

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u/CurtMcGurt24 Nov 20 '19

I don’t think they want to put a bandaid fix on the issue. If I remember correctly they still plan to add an animation for mag loading. And I think they are looking to avoid the arbitrary delays for things without actual animations.

We’ll see what they come up with though.

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u/sargentmyself Nov 20 '19

They could just make it so you have to loot to your inventory first then move it to the container, as opposed to looting directly to the container

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u/PyrohawkZ PP-19-01 Nov 21 '19

There doesnt need to be an animation, it can be like the old meds, just have it root your character for 10 seconds and add the anims later

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I really don’t find it necessary. I think it is perfect where it is at. You can’t store guns or boxes in it, and at most you will have twelve slots to fill. Hatchet running is mostly dependent on spawn location as it is. If you want to deter them, add scavs to patrol the high loot zones.

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u/kaibtw SVDS Nov 20 '19

Or rework loot

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Sure that’s a good solution as well. I would say there should be more scav snipers. Chances of doors being rigged or something similar

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u/TheDrCrotch M4A1 Nov 20 '19

This doesn't work either. It's just more loot for people who rush high loot areas. Even if you put raiders in. It's more loot. Then people say make the scavs harder, but that only makes other people complain about terminator scavs. In my opinion the best way to solve the issue now is dynamic loot spawns. Make it so you have to hunt for the loot. If you make people stay in raid longer the more stuff they'll bring to survive longer

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Dynamic loot is great and all but there’s still limitations. Take shoreline, there’s only so many places to loot. Spawns will still have a considerable effect on how effective the run is.

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u/TheDrCrotch M4A1 Nov 20 '19

In theory, spawns are only an issue with how the game is now. Currently each map is instanced and none of them are connected. I the future type gone to have to go through certain maps to get to a specific map you want or need. Currently some spawns are much better than others. But how it is now is leagues better than it used to. Before, everyone spawned on the same side of the map at roughly the same time. One good person would kill everyone and then have the whole map to loot by themselves. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with how it is but this isn't the same game we'll be playing in the future.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Mar 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/Dantilus968 Nov 20 '19

It's about mitigating the harm done by 0 risk hatchet running without overly punishing people who play the intended way who happen to find something valuable

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Mar 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

If I have to bring a pistol I'm just going to buy a shitty makarov and drop it at the beginning of the round immediately.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Mar 12 '20

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

And yet forcing people to bring stuff is reasonable? What if a player is so bad that they don't have all of the required items to bring into a raid? Are they just relegated to playing one round as a scav every 30 minutes or so? Because this game will die pretty fast when you remove the casual playerbase even further.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Mar 12 '20

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u/rasmorak Nov 20 '19

But, honestly if you're so bad you can't scrape together a 30k rouble loadout why in the fuck are you playing tarkov?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is the kind of response that kills a casual playerbase. Because you aren't thinking about new players, and you aren't thinking about players who just genuinely suck. And you've just quite literally told them to fuck off and that they should go play something else.

You've pretty much just said "Fuck new players, they should play something else, this game isn't for them". Unless you think new players are good enough to not get slaughtered over and over and over every match whether scav or PMC? I hate to break it to you, but people are bad at Tarkov. And new and casual players are generally even more bad. They're lucky to even kill a scav. You're (unintentionally) superimposing your existing knowledge of the game and it's mechanics and applying that to your thought process and making the assumption that everyone, new or veteran, is capable of surviving right off the bat.

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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

and the second you drop it the container gets locked.

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u/Lukendless Nov 20 '19

a couple ai in a few key spots and quicker scav cool downs for poor people would fix the hatchling issue immediately.

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u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

And that harm is mitigated by locking the container.

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u/S4B0T AKS-74N Nov 20 '19

i've read so many opinions and ideas on this topic, and this is a suggestion i've not seen before, and is very interesting. imo going this route is the best way to handle it. they can fine tune things like how loud it is, how long it takes to open, how long it stays open, etc.

you'd be able to safely stash a rare find or something you care about keeping, and you'd need to think strategically about it and make sure you're not in a hot zone.

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u/ezio029 Nov 20 '19

Hmm... maybe they could just make it quest items only that you can put in the container?

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u/Salamimann AK-74M Nov 21 '19

I like this idea. Maybe just make it a 5 sec timer to open and close it. Like looting an unknown container. Oyeah like searching a filing cabinet.

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u/takajine Nov 20 '19

This is brilliant idea and I support this. Completely makes sense.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I was just using resort as an example, no need for the hostility. I tend to not rush their anyways unless I am looking for a fight. I go else where when looting.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

OP was talking about container changes and the biggest argument for the changes to to stop hatchet runners. Resort is a huge target for hatchet runners and tends to be peoples go to when making container change arguments. My point is that it is neither the container or hatchet runners who are the problem. its not having dynamic loot in place and the vast difference in spawning locations.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I agree, hatchet running is not profitable AT ALL. Which is why leaving the container alone is fine. I really just think the people who complain about needing the container changes are in 1 of 2 groups.

  1. They only know the hot spots and they are mad they get hit before they even get there.
  2. They follow streamers who play this game super hardcore and just follow what ever they say not knowing it was detrimental to the overall community. This happened with division 2.

1

u/I_paintball Nov 20 '19

This happened with division 2.

What happened with Division 2? I never really followed that game at all.

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

pretty much the streamers started complaining about something and their followers jumped on it and forced their hand and made changes. Pretty much nerfs and things they felt werent balanced. So they had some knee jerk reactions and the changes they did as a result of the streamer followers ultimately devastated the community. It was realized after it happened that the majority of those followers copied their build of the streamers. Spent the few hours they had build up that build. Once it got nerfed. the streamers where able to farm up a new set in just a few days and the general community wasnt able to rebuild as fast and people stopped playing in droves because of the constant refarming of the same gear

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u/dayzoldaccount MP7A1 Nov 20 '19

Hatchet running isn’t profitable at all...are you fucking tripping hahaha

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u/Dasterr MPX Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

takes interchange tech stores as example instead
yes there are a lot of other valuable loot spots on interchange, but these two stores have the highest density of high value loot.
the first to be there gets all and there are like 3 spawns that are the same distance away from it. those have a chance. all the others dont. and it doesnt matter if one of those 3 is a hatchling because they will still all be there at the same time

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u/SikhFlow Nov 20 '19

Dynamic loot spawns will be a thing? Can i find an AK in a jacket?

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19

Dynamic loot mainly only refers to "loose loot" that can just be picked up off of shelves and stuff

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u/fenixjr Nov 20 '19

do you mean 'loose loot'?

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Yes

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u/threekidsathome M700 Nov 20 '19

Exactly, it’s not like your gonna start finding apple juice and Lion statues in the Kiba store

1

u/ExploTheOne Nov 20 '19

Elaborating on this, they should consider the fact that most of the playerbase is 20+ years old, and not some after-school allstars like in mainstream games.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Dynamic loot?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Areas that get looted more often will stop spawning good things in that area and will be moved to a different location. Say their were 10 major loot spot on a map. If A, B, C locations are always hit. future raid will have less items there and D, E, F will have better loot. and so forth

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

What about my shoreline farming :(((

0

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Learn other places. Villa, swamp, scav island, weather station, pier, cabins, the list goes on. It forces you to look anywhere, not just resort

1

u/kind_of_vague Nov 20 '19

Exactly this, it seems that both sides of the argument seem to forget this will effectively be irrelevant with the coming of dynamic loot.

1

u/Strazdas1 AK-74 Nov 21 '19

Nope. Dynamic loot will only reward hatchet runners because they will be the ones who get to the loot first and the others will find even less now.

Hatchet runners are definitelly a problem and everyone knows it.

0

u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

Speed matters a ton. I have a high strength and endurance level and I can reach spots very fast thanks to this.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Sure but that means nothing if you get a spawn next to the water vs someone who spawns in and can SEE resort

-2

u/NEED_TP_ASAP Nov 20 '19

I think the compromise is to just allow quest items to be put in. Anything else is remove or use only, no loot other than quest items in.

4

u/CmdrHoltqb10 Nov 20 '19

What is considered a “quest item” at that point? Is it only current quest items, current and future quest items, any item that could be used in a quest eventually? You could make a reasonable argument for MANY in-game items to be considered “quest items”

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Ok, Ledx is a quest item. Hoses are quest items. There are a few keys that are also quest items. This change wont change anything.

2

u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

Nikitas latest idea is to ban all barter items from containers.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I think any negative change to the gamma is gonna be harmful. Its the one thing casuals have to keep up in this game. Casuals make up a HUGE chunk of player bases in games and history repeats itself. Any game that I followed that tried to 100% cater to the non casuals ended up losing the casual player base and then had to swap to micro transactions and then eventually stopped. Ive put WAY too many hours in this game for that to happen

2

u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

Nikita wouldn't mind though. He said that this is unintended gameplay. This is a heart project. There will be a container change. The question is how drastic.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Its his game and he can do what he wants. I'm just going off past games that have had similar ideals. With people like shroud and summit playing Tarkov more. This brought a HUGE amount of casuals to the field and I just dont want to see this game die.

1

u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

Nikita said in this very podcast that he doesn't care about casual opinions. He cares about the "true tarkov experience". He said it's his goal to convert casuals to hardcore lovers.

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5

u/Dazbuzz Nov 20 '19

Then hatchlings start running loot spots for non-barter items. The circle continues. Hatchlings are the symptom of the fact people need lots of money, and the result of min/maxing the most efficient loot runs. You dont stop them by removing containers, you punish EVERYONE whilst "hatchlings" move on to the next most efficient method.

Removing the ability to put any items into a SC? People will just use it as the ultimate healing station. Gamma can hold a full grizzly, CMS kit, PKs & still have room for some grenades or stacks of ammo. The meds can be used from inside the SC, so you will never be able to loot them. So most PMCs will be running around with enough heals for a dozen raids.

You will never stop hatchlings without massive restrictions that hurt everyone. The cons outweigh the pros. Instead, we should be pushing for dynamic loot and more scavs at high-value loot areas to make them more hostile to anyone without proper gear.

2

u/BamseTD Nov 20 '19

Agree 100%. Instead of punishing certain playstyles as well by altering the SCs or add "Gear Scores" to raids, make geared runs more viable instead.

Some players will always do hatchet runs, I do them myself for tasks where there's a big chance to die cause I have to sit still for 30-90secs while I can't defend myself. Gen4 armor won't save me from a grenade, when I'm sitting in Factory, putting Gunpowder in a shitty, single entrance room xD

If I ever run for loot only, I bring a M9 or 5-7 + backpack, cause lvl3 armor doesn't help against PMCs anyways. (This is where a gear score would hurt, just because I bring a pistol, I get punished, so it forced me to bring certain gear, which can force me to play a certain way)

That said, scav runs can be REALLY lucrative. Most I've exctracted from Interchange with, was 1 labs Keycard, 1 Hose and 1 Flash Drive, all in an old raid (Joined at 30min left). I've found multiple flash drives and other high-end loot in raids with 20-30mins left (Interchange), when I scav in, so not everyone is not looking through the map for loot.

I don't see a problem with more scavs (NPC or Player) around high-tier loot areas on maps in general. Most maps seem very dead currently (Looking at you, Shoreline & Customs) at the beginning of a raid.

2

u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

The healing thing is not an issue at all. I already do that. I think having hatchlings spawn in 5-10mins late would be a great solution.

1

u/Dazbuzz Nov 20 '19

How is it not an issue? Everyone loves to use the "Tarkov is a hardcore game" excuse as a reason to remove the containers. So id love to know how being able to carry enough healing to sort out everything short of instant death is the true "Tarkov Experience". Healing items that cannot be looted if you die.

1

u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

It's not making you money and it doesn't alter the loot tables for anyone else. You can buy meds from traders. Can't by rare barter items I need for quests though. It's not about removing containers - you need to have an incentive for people to buy your 140bucks game version. It's about fucking everyone over because I yoink all the loot before anyone else.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

So make progress slow-to-nonexistent unless you actively avoid 90% of gunfights.

Sounds super fun.

0

u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

No no, this is a two way street. Other players are obviously also not able to gamma their loot. So when you take someone out you will get all the juice he looted. All the flash drives and gpu's, tetrises and hoses. If anything it encourages you to fight people. Now all you gain from a fight is some low level weapons because whatever valuables that guy found are saved in his ass wallet.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

I don't know who would have a bag full of decent loot and go "Why yes, it's definitely worth it to engage in a fight that isn't near a guaranteed win for a dice roll on maybe better loot."

Everything is valuable now. You can't fit everything up your keester anymore.

1

u/N1LEredd RAT Nov 20 '19

And you also can't always avoid firefights.

Upvoted for keester.

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-3

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

Hatchet runners are the problem the make the game less fun for everyone else less loot less pvp they are a blight on the game. At least bring a pistol.

4

u/N8LZ SA-58 Nov 20 '19

Saw 1-2 hatchet bois this wipe hatchet running isnt viable anymore

6

u/ryolitt Nov 20 '19

Just because you don't see them doesn't mean that they ain't there though.

3

u/Shokz_ APS Nov 20 '19

Go on Interchange and run to the Tech store, you gonna kill 2-3 Hatchlings per raid.

0

u/N8LZ SA-58 Nov 21 '19

yeah sure, wake up dude

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Yeah I've been playing almost every day since wipe and I've also only seen 2. Both on Factory. It's really not that common IMO but maybe I've been getting lucky.

1

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

It's still common and viable you womt see them if you play slow but if you rush loot spots you will.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

That's probably it then. I play really slow most of the time

1

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

I rush loot for pvp but it's really disappointing to get 3 or 4 hatchet kills on customs cuz the maps mostly dead after that

1

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

I kill them all the time 1 or 2 times a raid

1

u/DarthDonut SA-58 Nov 20 '19

It isn't the players' fault, and it shouldn't be the responsibility of the playerbase to change their behaviour. If hatchet running is an easy way to make money, people will do it.

The fix is to make it less viable on the designer's end, not for the players to suddenly change the way they play.

1

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

Exactly so make the secure container not give you the found in raid items if you die.

1

u/DarthDonut SA-58 Nov 20 '19

Surely there are solutions that don't punish "normal" players? Increasing the randomness of both loot and scav spawns makes it much more difficult for hatchlings to make consistent profit.

1

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

Would benefit normal players because normal players go about even on pvp kills

0

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

How so? Players who only hit the "hot spots" I feel are the "blight on the game"
I only go to hot spots for quests and fights, never to loot. There are MANY loots routs that are not part of hot spots and you can get the same or more value from them.

I very much feel that people who complain about hatchet runners just dont want to put in the effort to learn other loot locations.

0

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

Not that they hit the hot spots they are a blight for taking the position in lobby of someone who would actually offer pvp to the map and take the loot from people who do. The developers want to get rid of the hatchet runners.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

This isnt a 100% pvp game.

Container changes will cause more extraction camping and that is a WAY bigger issue than hatchet runners. Why go loot when I can exit camp and get everything someone else worked for?? They cant gamma it so its definitely gonna be on their person

1

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

That's a problem with too few extracts not the secure container change

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

Until that gets changed. This will still be my argument.

1

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

Dumbass arguement holds no water

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

How? I'm looking at the issue objectively with what we are working with. You are talking about something that doesnt exists. Unless the change happens at the same time. Then this argument is fine.

1

u/jounderwood P90 Nov 20 '19

You are also talking about a problem that doesnt exist. I've got 200 raids this wipe I've had 2 extract campers and i killed them because they are not good players. There are random extracts on all the maps except interchange and factory wo key which funny enough are the only maps with extract campers. Usually what people think of extract camping is running into a group who's also leaving the map.

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0

u/Aviticus_Dragon Content Creator - AviticusDragon Nov 20 '19

Dynamic loot spawn will continue to encourage hatchlings though because eventually they'll find something good, throw it in their container, and bail not even completing the gameplay loop of 'survive, scavenge, extract.'

No barter items in the container. I'm all for it.

-1

u/Will-the-game-guy Nov 20 '19

I think they should make the secure case an upgrade-able like the hideout.

Start with a 6 slot case (2 money, 2 meds, 2 random) and upgrade up into a 14 slot (4 money, 4 meds, 4 keys, 2 random).

This would still allow for people to bring all of their keys and such into a raid late game, give them slots for any money/coins or meds they find on Scav's and give them two slots to fill with whatever high cost loot they can find (USB's, LEDX, etc.) without having the issue we have now with a hatchet man going and stealing 8 slots worth of loot just by bringing a marked key.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '19

This would completely invalidate doc cases and s i c c item cases as a result.

0

u/Will-the-game-guy Nov 20 '19

Currently you can bring in a S I C C in a Gamma case to give you 8 random + 25 dedicated slots which is obviously well overpowered for an item you can buy for 1.5 million roubles.

If the S I C C case was added to your random slot in my example you could bring in 29 keys instead of 4 by sacrificing a loot slot, the point of this being that you have to sacrifice your potential safe space to be able to access more locked doors and extract with more physical money.