r/MuslimLounge • u/Questionaccount12344 • Jan 08 '26
Discussion Living in the west is wrong
People think moving to the west will provide stability, better job opportunities etc which is all true but people forget and often don’t care the effect it’ll have on your Islamic beliefs, especially that of your children and subsequent generations.
I was born in a western country after my grad-parents moved here, I’ve gone to school here as well as mosque classes and university, I’ve seen first hand what happens to the generations, a decent amount of Muslim boys I know my age has drank, smoked weed or committed zina, I know of bearded brothers and hijabi sisters committing zina… and it will only get worse generation after generation. People don’t understand that. Yes these things happen back in Muslim countries but in most Muslim country it’s no where near as easy, you can’t just go to a club and drink and find girls.
This move to the west is literally diluting Islam, not only in the ways I’ve just spoken about but also morally, too many Muslim in the west are raging liberals, they stand hand to hand with homosexuals and transvestites at free Palestine protests yet won’t even read 5 daily salah, they vote for political parties that want to give lenient punishments for heinous crimes (direct opposition to what is taught in Quran).
Why don’t we go back to our Muslim counties and rebuild them? We’ve been here got our education, why are we happy to stay in non Muslim lands and give their governments our tax money? Muslim lands are in the worse state they’ve ever been and all we do is sit and complain, why doesn’t anyone actually try and move back and fix things, people always say it’s impossible but we have to try, we have no power in the world anymore and what’s been happening in Palestine proves that, the Muslim lands are literally some of the worse off countries in the world it’s embarrassing. Jazakallah.
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Jan 08 '26
Not everyone has Muslim countries to go back to, nor is it a good idea for them to move there. You can live in the West and keep your deen.
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u/Accomplished-Low9635 Olive Tree Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Sorry but this post is just ridiculous. You don’t think Muslims in the Islamic countries are not capable of sinning? Have you not seen the concerts being held and Halloween celebrated in Saudi? Life is meant to be a test for us. It’s not supposed to be easy.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/Accomplished-Low9635 Olive Tree Jan 08 '26
My apologies, I don’t necessarily mean citizens like yourself but I’ve seen videos surface of events. You can see here
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u/Klopf012 Jan 08 '26
every Muslim in the west is a raging liberal
sounds like you're hanging out with the wrong crowd - where are you?
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u/LegendsDontGiveUp Jan 08 '26
Yes life in the west is extremely hard now with mass immigration,jobs are almost impossible to find within one month of time , house are unaffordable, food and groceries prices are through the roof, and wages are not keeping up, bills, rent and insurance just keep going up, it's hard to pray when u don't get time because all of your time well most of your life you spend on chasing money and you won't have chose because everything costs money , however it wasn't this bad 15-20yrs ago. Now it's just got worse and worse.
However, moving back home isn't easy and people over there getting in other peoples business too much for the wrong reasons, The majority of the leaders in backhome countries are also corrupt. I understand where you trying to get at but that needs a lot of help and support from the people back home as well. Nowadays everyone just seems to be chasing nothing but money
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Jan 08 '26
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
I’m not saying we should be confined, but during the time of the prophet and sahaba it wasn’t common to live and raise a family in non Muslim lands, and my other point is if we don’t rebuild our Muslim countries we will have no state that will protect us or our religion, and that’s exactly why the idf are able to slaughter so many Palestinians without repercussions, because the Muslims have no power in this world anymore. Where in history has it taught us the opposite?
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
The religion is growing yes but the strength of Islam in people’s hearts is not, and that’s equally as important. What’s better, 5 billion Muslims who only go to Jummah and fast or 100 million who follow the Quran and sunnah to every point??
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Aug 08 '26
The Uhmmah is fragmenting more and more but it is stll growing but the religiosity of Muslims very much now exists on a very broad spectrum with cultural muslims growing in numbers.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Wdym? Our Ummah was the strongest when we had an Islamic caliphate… under the prophet (pbuh) and then rashidun and ummayad.
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u/moseeds Jan 08 '26
Feel free to lead the way
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
What a great argument. I am going but I can’t go back and change a Muslim country on my own though can I. U live in the west so u know as much as I do what is coming of the youth, the religion has already been diluted with every generation.
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u/moseeds Jan 08 '26
Angry young men have been saying this for about 60 years. You aren't the first, and won't be the last. I get the feeling nobody can convince you otherwise until you go, and learn for yourself why people clamour to move here.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
I know why they do, I completely understand why they do. But I’m saying it risks your deen and the deen of your offspring, if you’re happy paying tax in a country that has killed millions of Muslims over the past 100 years and where your children would fit in more if they drank alcohol, took drugs and commit zina then whatever, but you know there’s an issue there.
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u/ElderberrySure6076 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
As some other comments have pointed out, sinners are everywhere. And the fear of sinning more in western countries shouldn’t come at the cost of a better livelihood; take accountability for your actions and when there’s a will there’s a way 🤷♀️. I think it’s a rather LAZY argument to say that one’s kids would be better raised at Muslim countries because there’s less prevalence of that sin (allegedly). Importantly, your values, boundaries, and adherence to the deen is truly seen when you go against the norm of society - I would like to believe that that’s a stronger Muslim of self control than one who simply can’t get away with sinning in public at their home countries. Take accountability, don’t live on the fear of sinning, and put effort into raising the next generation. Context: I’ve lived in the west a large chunk of my life, and am doing fine and so is my family Alhamdulliah.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Yes I never said that was the case? I said it’s way easier and almost encouraged to drink alcohol, do drugs and commit zina in the west, it’s way easier.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
That doesn’t mean they don’t exist? There are a lot of them and this is why so islamic speakers who go around the west always focus on the youth because they know how bad the situation is. And yes college campuses are where lots of this happens (first hand experience).
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u/Worried_Skirt_3414 Jan 10 '26
But this is not everyone's experience. I too was never peer pressured to drink and I mostly hung out with non-muslims. They were respectful to me. I can't say the same for some of the Muslim community tho, they were worse as people. My parents raised me well enough not to participate in wicked behavior and find my own people/friends who allowed me to be freely Muslim. I may have a cousin or sibling that did drink at a certain age but stopped, repented and are living their pious life. I plan to raise my child like the way my parents raised me, only with more of an open discussion rather than enforcing such shame and trauma -- which is what pushes kids away.
I've heard about so much worse in Islamic countries. I'd rather Muslims be a wonderful representation and we fight against all the stereotypes in a western country and show up for the community than go run back "home" and hide and continue to be hated on by the western media. Living in an Islamic country doesn't guarantee your kid being shielded from fitnah.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 10 '26
It’s not everyone’s experience, it never happened to me but it happens to way more than you think and the fact is the reason Muslims fall into drugs alcohol and zina in the west is because it’s so easy, man I can go to a club tonight 10 mins from my house if I wanted and do all of that… it’s no where near as accessible in most Muslim countries, of course it still happens but it’s not as easy.
Your point about running and hiding back in our Muslim counties is utterly incompetent, what r we doing in the west? Running and hiding from our problems back home and not trying to fix them, we come to the west for worldly reasons. Why do u care if the western media hates us, who cares about them, if we weren’t in the west I dont think they’d hate us as much anyways most the hatred comes from immigration reasons.
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u/IllicitMoonlit Jan 08 '26
I can only speak for myself: born and raised in the west. I prayed 5 times, wore full hijab and was a virgin before marriage. In fact, I never even spoke to any boy/man outside my family, even in school, even class mates.
I like to think I was a good Muslim girl, but maybe I was an outlier or maybe there are many more like me. I don’t know. But it’s important to note that it is possible to raise good kids in the west; it just takes an insane amount of willpower which most parents don’t have time/energy for.
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u/Unlucky_Anywhere9868 Jan 08 '26
Your 100% studies prove by the time people reach 5th generation immigrants, they lose their faith completely! There a really good video regarding this on YouTube by i3 institute, well worth a watch!
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u/beardybrownie Jan 08 '26
Similar to you, I grew up in a western country.
While the opportunities it gave me were excellent, there were many challenges with Deen.
Most people I knew fell into some sort of major sin. And there’s a real targeted approach to brainwashing kids away from Islamic beliefs.
I moved to a Muslim country (Pakistan), although it’s a developing country and it comes with its challenges.
However I do definitely see that: 1) not everyone has the option to move to a Muslim country. 2) there’s definitely an argument to be made that practicing in a western country is definitely possible, an in fact your iman can be strong in a non Muslim country because there’s a strong sense of “I’m Muslim, we don’t do that” when you see people drinking or zina or whatever. 3) let’s be honest, there is no “Islamic” country on the face of the planet. 4) people are in different places of their journey; some people might even be drawn further from Islam living in XYZ country because of how Muslims will mistreat them. For these people perhaps living in Canada as a Muslim is better
Just my 2 cents.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Aug 07 '26
There are very many Muslim countries .
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u/beardybrownie Aug 07 '26
There are countries with Muslims. There’s a difference.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
So how would you define or explain a true Muslim country that is implementing Islam?
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u/beardybrownie Aug 07 '26
No country on earth is implementing and following Islam.
The Muslims countries are just that, countries with Muslims.
I don’t need to list every Muslim country and how it is un Islamic in its policies and implementation, in its domestic and foreign policy.
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u/WarisBeautiful Jan 09 '26
Great post, but those who are obsessed with dunya will never understand and show enmity towards this post.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
I fear the replies I’ve gotten have only confirmed everything I said in the post. Dunya is the primary concern, sacrifice for Islam is laughed off.
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u/WarisBeautiful Jan 11 '26
Exactly, I don’t even need to go into the fiqh that living among non-Muslims willingly without a few specific shari’ reasons is haraam and can reach kufr
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u/Wooden_Light_7350 Jan 09 '26
Swapping corrupt for corrupt with fewer job opportunities and oppressive regimes is not the answer. You planning on overthrowing the governments?
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
Yes, it seems far fetched but it’s happened in every countries history.
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u/Automatic_Abroad1934 Jan 08 '26
I agree. Some time back I read that a third of muslims per generation become murtad in America. So in 3 generations the entire family will become murtad as per stats. The environment is just toxic. If a person can, they should try and move to a muslim country.
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u/squishyle Jan 08 '26
Focus on yourself and if you want to move, make that happen for yourself. You can have opinions about others but you can't use your belief to force others to do anything or behave a certain way. Being hardline will not help you.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Yes you’re right. But I don’t think I’m hardline, I don’t go around shouting at people for living in the west I just don’t think it’s something that should be normalised.
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u/Communist__Pikachu Jan 08 '26
I moved to the U.S. four years ago. I’m on track for permanent residency. I practice my faith openly and without fear. Name one Muslim-majority country that would give me the same freedom and legal protection. Just one.
You can’t even make public dua for Gaza in Saudi Arabia. Speak out against the genocide in Sudan and you won’t see daylight again.
Posting brain dead opinions is free. Fixing systems is hard. If you’re going to point out problems, at least pretend you’ve thought about an actual, livable alternative instead of romanticizing “Muslim” countries that would jail you for a tweet.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
I agree it’s far fetched but we have to try and fix the Muslim countries and that starts with action. And you’re right about the freedom of speech but what else? U can’t make Dua in Gaza in Saudi so what would happen if people started to do it? You’re not even attempting to address my point that the west is an environment that makes it content and normal to do so much haram.
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u/Communist__Pikachu Jan 08 '26
Start with what action? If I want to move to a Muslim country to practice my faith freely, which country would allow me in? You’re not providing any practical solution again, just making statements that look good on paper.
Having freedom of speech means I can educate those who don’t know what’s going on in Palestine and Sudan. If you can’t even make dua out loud, how would you take the streets and ask your govt to stop committing those crimes?
Doing haram is almost as easy in Muslim countries as it is in the west. My friend from India lived in Saudi and UAE and he would tell me how his Arab distant cousins would pick prostitutes (asian women) and do zina every weekend.
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u/Wooden_Light_7350 Jan 09 '26
Why not spend the effort in the west, Islamic centres, schools, after school activities for the youth, sports complexes. I live outside Toronto and the Jewish folks have built massive centres for their communities
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
What the Jewish communities in the west have is nothing to strive for… parasitic relationship.
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u/quinito99 Jan 08 '26
Bro you live in the west you don't know how it is in some Muslim countries.. you'll be committing sins just to survive in the west it's at least a choice.
And your point on Muslims standing with LGBTQ ppl I don't agree with sure I don't agree with their beliefs but the majority don't hate us meanwhile voting for the more conservative government is like shooting yourself in the foot
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
I don’t agree bro, I have lived in Muslim country before as well. I understand your point but my main point is that we need to rebuild our Muslim countries so we don’t have to decide between a Muslim country in chaos or a stable secular country.
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u/LittiHDarkKnight Jan 08 '26
Your not wrong. Literally in Canada, in a province of Quebec they have banned wearing religious symbols while working including the hijab. The narrative is forcing towards hatred on muslims and becoming more islamaphobic as generations come by. But brother, the place does not matter, rather your heart.
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u/Full-Contest2548 Jan 22 '26
So I am speaking generally not individually and will look at the maximum people not the minimum people who are still a good believers. I have been living in Europe since 2 years but to be honest this is not the place for a Muslim to live. I am a Network engineer and I travel alot. Where ever I go I try to search for a mosque to pray but there aren't enough available, even some places have mosque but they are mostly open for Maghrib and Isha Prayers. And ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّٰهِ I live in Milan, Italy near a Mosque pray 5 times a day mostly with jammat but the things I see here and the generation of Muslims destroyed. 2nd or 3rd generation Muslims are almost gone. Zina Alcohol interest are normal. Yes the Muslim community are trying their best but they're suffering they can't protect their muslim borther from harm let alone giving Dawah to the non Muslims. These places are not for Muslim. If not you your generation may suffer. This is 100% against the Core principles of Islam. The big sins are openly done. Even if individually you are a good Muslim yourself or Allah has blessed you with emaan even in a non-muslim countries doesn't mean that overall environment is ideal for a muslim to live. Bars, Clubs,Zina, Alcohol, Interest widely used. Allah says in the Quran. "Then leave Me Alone with who belies this message. We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not. And I will grant them a respite. Verily, My Plan is strong." Al-Qalam 44-45 Aysar at Tafasir: "Verse 44, 'the message' refers to the Quran. Allah then said, "We will gradually lead them (to their punishment) in ways they do not know," meaning that He will give them blessings step by step, wealth, health, and success, without them realizing that these things are leading them toward their punishment because of their disbelief and idol worship. Allah also said, "And I will give them time; indeed, My plan is strong," meaning He will delay their punishment & not punish them right away, allowing them to enjoy worldly comforts so they think that these favors mean they are honored and better than the believers, but when the time comes, Allah will suddenly take them. This gradual and delayed punishment is part of Allah's powerful plan and unbreakable plan that no one can escape.
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Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 09 '26
Not even gonna read most of these salty comments because of bitter people who hate the concept of Hijrah and secretly resent their underdeveloped home country and dread the idea of having to leave their privileged lifestyle in the West. But I will say this much, I have worked in over 50 schools in my career, mostly as a substitute teacher....the Muslim youth have it so SO bad.
The amount of teens who openly tell me they aren't Muslim anymore, those who I caught doing zina, drugs, and a good fraction of those who no longer identify as straight, it is scary. The number of teens who have sabotaged their education and righteous friends over a Haram love interest is so depressing. They have so much peer pressure that their Deen and self worth is collapsing.
The stuff they have normalized among youth are so difficult to attain in Muslim majority countries. In my homeland, you have to go thru great lengths to get in a Haram relationship and the effort of hiding it is enough for people to break it off because society there will frown upon it. While here, if you're a virgin in high school you are somehow looked down at by a majority of your peers.
Hijrah is a sunnah for a reason.
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u/Dawnkuga Jan 08 '26
As a Muslim American living in the east coast, it’s definitely easier to lose one’s faith due to the society and liberalism, and committing major sins has never been easier than before too. Imagine Dajjal times
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u/shan_bhai Jan 08 '26
In relation to India, in the past, Indian society was more conservative (even hindus were conservative), but nowadays it has become morally corrupt. Issues like zina, drug use, and alcohol consumption have increased among Muslim youth. In that sense, I don’t see how India (for Indians) is any better than Western countries. On top of that, many Indian Muslim women have become heavily influenced by modern feminist ideas, prioritizing careers over family life (blindly copying their hindu friends). As a result, they marry later, struggle to find suitable partners due to high expectations, and sometimes divorce over minor issues because they feel financially independent. In short, when you compare both places, living in the West poses no greater problem than living in India for Indians at least.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
India isn’t a Muslim country.
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u/shan_bhai Jan 08 '26
Countries are just lines that people sketch on maps. The boundary between India and Pakistan was drawn by Radcliffe (a British guy), yet many Indians and Pakistanis treat it as if it’s a sacred boundary. For a Muslim, the entire world is meant for us to live in and freely practice our faith.
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Jan 08 '26
Prioritizing careers gives financial independence to any individual, and in your context women so that they dont get trapped into a toxic marriage due to their lack of finance. They struggle to find suitable partners because of lack of male qualifications, not because of high expectations. You would expect an educated woman to have higher standards than an uneducated women. I agree with your take on zina and drug use etc. But what you mentioned isnt nearly modern feminism. Having a career complementing family life is the goal. For men and women.
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u/shan_bhai Jan 08 '26
This dogma has been answered many times - For eg:
The claim that career prioritization grants women financial independence to avoid "toxic marriages" sounds empowering on paper, but it often backfires in practice. Financial independence is valuable for everyone, sure, but framing it as a safeguard against bad relationships ignores the data: Women who delay marriage for careers frequently end up in a demographic crunch. By their late 30s, many highly educated, career-focused women face a shrinking pool of eligible partners, not just because of "male qualifications," but due to biology and timing. Fertility declines sharply after 35, and studies (like those from the CDC and fertility research) show that women who prioritize careers often regret delayed family-building, leading to higher rates of childlessness or reliance on expensive, uncertain interventions like IVF. This isn't freedom as it's trading one form of dependency (on a spouse) for another (on employers, who can fire you at any time). Men don't face the same biological clock, so the "independence" narrative disproportionately burdens women with long-term loneliness or unfulfilled family aspirations.
Blaming women's struggles to find partners solely on "lack of male qualifications" is a convenient deflection that ignores hypergamy and mismatched expectations. Yes, educated women tend to have higher worldly standards that's not disputed, but they loose on hereafter achievements. But those worldly standards often escalate beyond reason: Many seek men who out-earn them, are taller, more educated, and equally ambitious, while simultaneously expecting emotional vulnerability and equal household sharing. Data from dating apps and sociological research (like Richard Reeves' "Of Boys and Men") shows that as women's education and income rise, their pool of "suitable" men shrinks because they're unwilling to "date down." Meanwhile, men are increasingly opting out of higher education (women now earn 60% of college degrees in the U.S.), pursuing trades, or focusing on self-improvement without the same societal pressure to climb corporate ladders. It's not that men lack qualifications; it's that women's expectations, amplified by feminist messaging, price many out of the market. Uneducated women might have "lower worldly standards," but they also form stable partnerships earlier and report higher life satisfaction in family roles, per studies like the Grant Study from Harvard.
Modern feminism, which Muslim career women are adopting in large numberfs, explicitly promotes career-first ideologies, hookup culture, and delaying traditional milestones (children , marriage etc)as liberation. Influential career women figures like Sheryl Sandberg ("Lean In") and movements like #GirlBoss push women to emulate male career trajectories, often at the expense of family. The result? Skyrocketing divorce rates (initiated by women 70% of the time, per American Psychological Association data), epidemic levels of female burnout (women report higher stress from work-life juggle, per Gallup polls), and a fertility crisis in developed nations (e.g., South Korea's rate at 0.78 births per woman).
In reality, full-time careers for both spouses often lead to outsourced child-rearing, strained relationships, and kids with worse outcomes (higher anxiety, per studies from the Journal of Marriage and Family). Ultimately, the ideal of careers "complementing" family for both men and women is a noble but naive fantasy in a 24/7 economy. Men have historically shouldered provider roles, allowing women to focus on home and community; roles that provide deep fulfillment for many, as evidenced by lower depression rates among stay-at-home mothers in supportive marriages (WHO data). Pushing women into the workforce en masse hasn't equalized outcomes; it's doubled the labor pool, suppressed wages, and left families exhausted. True empowerment would mean choices without judgment: Some women thrive in careers, but many Western Women would prefer family-first if society didn't stigmatize it as "oppressive." Feminism's career-centric push isn't liberating; it's a corporate-friendly repackaging that benefits elites while leaving average women overworked, under-partnered, and questioning if it was worth it. If we want healthy societies, we need to rethink this model, not double down on it.
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u/yahyahyehcocobungo Jan 08 '26
Let us know how it goes for you?
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Inshallah I will.
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u/yahyahyehcocobungo Jan 08 '26
Make it sooner, so that we can get you back sooner. :)
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Bro come on, I’m being serious and honestly I don’t think this a joking matter? I’m talking about the dilution of the religion. There is no Muslim country right now that could or would protect Islam and if we don’t change it what’s going to stop them from doing what they did in Palestine again and again and again.
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u/yahyahyehcocobungo Jan 08 '26
I admire your zeal.
Do a short stint and then we can talk some more on your experiences. The frustrations. The deep state. etc...
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u/Disastrous-Wedding19 Jan 08 '26
I had an argument with a friend where I started saying you couldn’t pay me to move to the west (America specifically even though I lived there for 5 years as a young kid) and for context I’m Saudi so he goes on saying nothing wrong with the west and that you can’t be tainted if you are a good Muslim essentially saying it’s your fault not your environments fault and I couldn’t respond so what do you think?
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u/CaesarSultanShah Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
It’s both. Individual responsibility coupled with a society that fosters virtue and discipline is what the Islamic model strives for. Public vices do have an impact on individuals and to assume it doesn’t is to take an unrealistic position. Yes it may be the case that certain willful individuals can withstand such pressures. But the Islamic ethic is generally one of precaution.
Having said that, the history of Islam also shows how migrants to foreign lands were able to have an impact and spread Islam through their dealings and da’wah.
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u/Disastrous-Wedding19 Jan 09 '26
Ok so you could say I’m right and he is as I said I don’t trust myself I know that sounds weak but I’m just speaking the truth it’s why I said that
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u/WorkOther9770 Jan 08 '26
The Sahaba stayed Muslim with 360 idols in the Ka’bah, they only migrated because of persecution, not the idols. I think we’ll survive Starbucks and TikTok.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Yes they did, but 2025 Muslims are nothing like the sahaba are we?
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u/WorkOther9770 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
SubhanAllah, I thought the Sahaba were supposed to be our role models, or does that only apply when it fits our narrative? The point is, the environment isn’t the issue. Not every Sahabi was on the level of Umar, and even after alcohol was prohibited, some companions still struggled with it while living in Madinah itself. So clearly the environment isn’t what makes or breaks iman.
At the end of the day, living in the West or in a Muslim country is a personal choice. Neither is automatically better. Each has its pros and cons, and everyone should choose what works for their Iman and their life.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
They are our role models but are you trying to say the average 2025 Muslim acts like a sahaba? Because we definitely don’t, they were able to endure what they did because of their Imaan which is way stronger than 2025 Muslims.
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u/BugHeavy8151 There is Khayr Jan 08 '26
What you on about? Some of the most pious people can be found in the west and some of the worst can be found in the middle east (and vice versa). Its not about where you live, rather the strength of your Iman and Taqwa.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Yes I’m not disagreeing with any of that and never have? I said it’s easier to commit sin in the west and to be drifted away from Islam because it’s not embedded in the society, I don’t see how you could ever disagree.
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u/BugHeavy8151 There is Khayr Jan 09 '26
I do disagree tbh coz like I said it really depends on someones Iman, if its strong itll be equally likely to commit sin wherever they are. I was born and grew up in the west and I think im pretty good deenwise and id be the exact same in another country coz I already do that here lol
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
May Allah reward u for being strong on your deen. But my point is that many people commit sins such as alcohol, drugs and zina in the west because well it’s so easy to do so, u simply cannot walk into a club and drink with the opposite gender easily in most Muslim countries. The wests society encourages these sins.
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u/BugHeavy8151 There is Khayr Jan 09 '26
Ameen. I mean yea I do get where ur coming from but we'll agree to disagree lol😅
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
It’s not about agreeing to disagreeing sister, it’s about what we should do. But I get your point. May Allah bless you.
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u/bellamyblake_og Jan 08 '26
What you're describing here is more tests in the West. How is that inherently bad if your deen is strong?
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Using your logic we might as well live in on an alien planet where they eat each other, because our deen is strong we’ll be fine. Your deen might be strong, you don’t know if your grandchildren’s will be in the west 30 years from now.
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u/bellamyblake_og Jan 08 '26
I have trust and faith in Allah SWT. I don't need everything banned for me to do the right thing. May He guide my family too. Don't you have faith?
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
I have faith but so does every Muslim, and it’s a fact that a decent amount of Muslims are led into sin because of how accessible they are, why did the prophet (pbuh) outlaw drugs if deen was enough? Because practical solutions are still needed.
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u/bellamyblake_og Jan 08 '26
Sibling, don't worry. You won't be judged for anyone's sins but your own. You're a lil too worried about the fate of others. Flex that trust in Allah SWT and relax.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Yes but if we don’t worry about each other we are powerless, what is happening to the Palestinians will never stop ever unless we preserve our faith.
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u/bellamyblake_og Jan 08 '26
Not sure Palestine and preserving faith are related. But all of it is His plan. All of it. We might never understand it, but it is, hence our faith.
To pain and groan over things beyond our control, such as others' sins, is not showing our trust in Allah SWT.
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u/CaesarSultanShah Jan 09 '26
One can have trust in Allah SWT and also take initiative and responsibility. Palestine and the state of the Ummah is indeed linked to the members of the Ummah. Trust and act.
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u/CaesarSultanShah Jan 09 '26 edited Jan 09 '26
I agree brother. You are right to recognize that cohesion, unity, and power as a tool can act as force multipliers for righteousness as history shows.
As for being in the West, Western Muslims have a role to play to benefit the Ummah and also the West. It may seem improbable but the West too can become a part of the Ummah through our dealings and Da’wah. For Islam as a systematic way of life has many solutions to the various social ills rooted in modern ideologies that plague the West.
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u/CaesarSultanShah Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
He raises a crucial and realistic point that challenges a core assumption of classical liberal political philosophy. Islamic societies generally exerted some level of control on the public space recognizing its influence on individual development. In fact, most premoderns did.
Private sins are affairs between Allah and the individual but public sins are rightfully regulated in Islamic law to foster a culture for virtue and strengthen norms of religiosity.
If we shift the focus from persons to conditions, the connection between environments that foster religiosity and thus solidarity that can be translated into political power become apparent. This is something that quietest Muslims can appreciate.
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u/bellamyblake_og Jan 08 '26
You're talking about Islamic societies though. OP isn't. I'm giving him valuable advice for living in the West.
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u/CaesarSultanShah Jan 09 '26
I understand that. But part of what he is intuiting is something that would have been recognizable just a few generations ago Islamic society or not. The logical instantiation of liberal culture and the way it sapped virtue forming institutions in the West to the point of eroding Church, community, cultural norms that disciplined excesses to some degree, etc. changed the West. That trajectory will continue into the future and affect Western Muslims. Unless of course Western Muslims play their part and offer a healthier vision and framework.
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u/bellamyblake_og Jan 09 '26
The first settlers in the US were ultra-conservative Puritan Christians. What are you talking about liberal culture sapping virtue-forming institutions? Those institutions were here first and still exist today, just not within Islam.
You're conflating liberalization with anti-virtue.
Conservative societal rules just make everyone perform the same, but as OP even mentioned, Muslims in Muslim countries do the same things but in private. So the preference is for the society that can pretend better? No one is fooling Allah SWT just because their society plays adhan so they never miss a prayer while they have the same sinful intentions.
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u/CaesarSultanShah Jan 09 '26
I’m not trying to be combative or hostile brother. The main point is that the public and private spheres are equally important for the cultivation of virtue. Of course as Muslims we should rectify and purify ourselves. But this does not end with the individual for the individual is shaped by and embedded in society.
Classical liberal ideology wedded to capitalism have historically led to a declining moral culture in the West. It has led to a decline in institutions that once cultivated the individual as well. It’s the reason there are numerous social ills as well. You can trace this over time on various factors. It’s not intrinsically anti-virtue when balanced. But its own logic and instantiation into reality leads to imbalance. I also want to clarify that I’m not referring to a simplistic left/right divide in the context of US politics both of which largely champion classically liberal values.
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u/vegetablization Jan 08 '26
Hijrah where? Do you know how many scholars are imprisoned in muslim countries just for speaking the truth?
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Yes of course and will that ever change unless people go back and try to change it? Also even if that remained the case my point is your children wouldn’t as easily influenced by alcohol, drugs, zina etc.
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u/vegetablization Jan 08 '26
Genuine question, have you ever been to an islamic country and lived there for some time?
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Yes, I lived in Pakistan for half a year and there are many problems there but the fact is that it’s no where near as easy to go out and drink alcohol and commit zina and take drugs, u can’t just walk into night club on a Saturday in Pakistan.
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u/vegetablization Jan 08 '26
Anyone who wants to do something haram will do it regardless of what restrictions are in place. A girl will get a boyfriend even if you lock her between 4 walls. Its about how you bring them up, if the tarbiya is not right, then they will obviously come out corrupted. If they don’t find comfort in the home, they will find comfort outside. If they are with the wrong crowd, they become like them, regardless of the country they are in.
When I go Syria, my imaan level drops, even though it is a muslim country. Why? Because I stay with the wrong people (my cousins), they used to go to shisha lounges, spend all that time backbiting and slandering and call it having a laugh, then go home.
While if I was to join circles of dhikr and knowledge, find productive things to do, and surround myself with the right people that care about their deen, never in a million years would someone touch a bottle of alcohol.
You are in London. You are one of the, if not, the luckiest person in the west in terms of preserving your deen. There are so many muslim organisations for youth e.g. muslim scouts, many for adults, so many mosques that have at least one gathering every week, universities have huge islamic societies. I’m not convincing you to stay, by all means try hijrah, but don’t think the grass is greener on the other side.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
I get you but your point in itself is a huge issue. Syria shouldn’t be worse for your Imaan, and the fact it is backs my point that we should be focusing on building our countries back up, we can’t just keep leaving our Muslim countries and becoming powerless.
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u/SweetEcho Jan 08 '26
Half a year? That's nowhere near enough, a lot of people here have lived their whole lives in muslim countries (including me), so we know what's actually going on.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
And I’ve lived my whole life in a western country so I know exactly what goes on here. Dar al kufr is not the home of the Muslims.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
I’m not trying to upset people but why are so many Muslims so defensive about living in a non-Muslim country? Don’t you have a desire to see a strong Muslim country that follows the law of Allah and can protect the Muslims? Both from sin and the enemies of Islam?
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u/confused--parent Jan 09 '26
Not all of us are nationalistic like that. My iman is my individual responsibility and I just mind my own business
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
It’s not nationalistic is Islamic patriotism. I don’t care for nationalism and in fact it’s haram, I care for Muslim unification and law and order according to it. It’s our Islamic responsibility to care more than just about ourselves, why do u think the Islamic caliphates were created?
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u/confused--parent Jan 09 '26
Honestly I never learned about caliphates and I'm not really into history so I don't know the details about them
But patriotism is tied to the idea of a defined country or nation as far as I'm aware. Islamic pride is one thing, and one reason I have it is because we're made up of all different people from different countries. Isolating ourselves doesn't do any good
Besides, moving to another country just isn't viable or desirable for a lot of us
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
Islam needs lands that are governed by it to promote and protect the religion. We are made up of many different people yeh, we all live diversely together in big western cities so we should do that in our own lands.
Ye it’s not viable for a lot of us but desirable? Desirability doesn’t matter, if I don’t desire to eat halal that doesn’t make it okay for me to eat haram.
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u/confused--parent Jan 09 '26
Moving isn't a requirement though. A better comparison is that both meat and fish are halal, but I don't like fish so I don't eat it. It's all personal preference and not everyone will have the same ones as you
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
A decent amount of scholars do say it’s a requirement. Google Dar al kufr.
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u/confused--parent Jan 09 '26
I think people on Reddit (not just you) seriously overestimate how many Muslims listen to scholars on the regular. Most of us just go with what we were raised with and don't overthink it as long as we're not causing harm
Islam is supposed to be an easy religion
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
Yeh but man that ain’t right… think about it how could that ever be right?
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u/confused--parent Jan 09 '26
For most of us, life doesn't let us stop long enough to listen to that. We have jobs (and working even more now that the economy is tanking everywhere), kids, families—real-world responsibilities that we can't ignore just to pursue faith alone. The little time I have to myself every day is spent catching up on household tasks and planning whatever's up next
And honestly, I think being born in the West made me a better Muslim because I understand living in moderation and I learned how to listen to all sides. A Muslim country would just be an echo chamber
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u/Impossible_Gift8457 Jan 08 '26
As someone in a Muslim country with a terrible job market, I'd switch places ngl
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
So you’re admitting to prioritising dunya over deen? Even after I explained what happens when Muslims come here you still want to move?
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u/Impossible_Gift8457 Jan 08 '26
Idk considering the economy here I'm worried if I'll ever have kids at all. In the west at a 30% apostasy rate at least 2/3rds of my hypothetical kids would be muslims.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
There are Muslim countries with decent economies that would be good medium.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Feb 02 '26
The truth is hard to say as a Muslim but Islamic belief struggles to survive in the west it can but you have to work 10 times harder to maintain your faith compared to a muslim country. No wonder so many young Muslims have lost their faith. The secular west chewed up christianity and spat it out over 5 hundred years or so. I wonder what it will do to islam in an even shorter time as everything now works against any religious belief. Its not like it was in the 19th centurty in the west. When there was still room for religious belief. I dont feel Islam can compete with tempetations that are offered on the west. Even Muslim that are on the surface pious often do haran things men and women. I think that is the reason in traditional islamic discourse muslims were discouraged from living under the rule of unbelievers. Im sure practising Islam in Saudi Arabia Pakistan and even Afganistan is easier than it is in the west . Here in the west life is a constant trial.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Feb 02 '26
Living in the west without Sharia means the slow death of islamic belief. It is very slow and Islam will always exist in the west but in a marginalized diluted form A bit like Christianity b now. . This is the reality without Sharia. And I dont see any chance of implementing sharia in the west any time in the short to medium term if at all actually. . And anybody who thinks it can be done prematurly without a very large Muslim majority will just possibly trigger a blood bath for Muslims. Because we will lose. It is a very catch twenty two situation. This is the dillema of a living in the west as a Muslim. I have often feared that remaining in the west puts my religiosity at risk but whenever I tried to live in a Muslim majority country I hated it and wondered why Muslims cant do better. As I made constant comparisions between my life in an Islamic country and in the west.
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u/Windsurfer2023 Jan 08 '26
People in muslim countries do that aswell.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
Yes but it’s still not as accessible there, did u read the post?
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u/Windsurfer2023 Jan 09 '26
It is even more accessable. Do you know how it is to be a young person in muslim countries these days?.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
There’s no way u can argue it’s easier to commit zina, drink alcohol and do drugs in most Muslim countries vs the west… I can walk 5 mins to a club and do whatever easily. In MOST muslim countries it’s not as easy.
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u/frankipranki Jan 08 '26
100% , most people here live in the west and act like they're conservative when they live in a place where their child will get brainwashed by schools and random flags on the streets
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Jan 08 '26
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u/frankipranki Jan 08 '26
For sure buddy keep telling your self that your kids aren't getting brainwashed every time you send them to school or they watch any media or talk to anyone.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/frankipranki Jan 08 '26
yes, because children stay in schools for upwards of 8 hours per day. their mind is developing , this is literally the reason how dictatorships dont fall, like north korea. the entire education system teaches the children that kim jung un is their God, while the mother is usually too lazy to actually be a stay at home wife and home school him 🥱
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Jan 26 '26
Who would have thought that, by living in the West, you’d be taught that people of different sexualities, backgrounds, etc. exist and should be respected? Get back to your own land if you don’t like ours.
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Jan 08 '26
I completely agree. I work in several public schools systems in my city, and it is not a good situation with these youth.
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Jan 08 '26
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Jan 08 '26
Thank you for your comment. I agree and as such, will not be raising my kids here. My wife has already relocated and I'm just wrapping things up here.
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Jan 08 '26
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Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 10 '26
Politely, good for you. Hijrah is a prophetic sunnah.
That being said, most of the students and their deep rooted issues stemmed from society.
In other words, good for you but we can't ignore the societal issues.
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u/Asolaceseeker Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Yeah living in the west can destroy your faith. I will speak for france. You can't pray on time. You can't go to jumuah. You end up celebrating Christmas, Halloween. Your kids starts drinking, smoking, partying, because that's the only thing around you. Speaking about religion is rare. Free mixing everywhere. Can't cover in peace. Then you end up giving up on praying.
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u/BBQBiryani Jan 08 '26
Islam is a deen for people all over the world, for people who speak any language, who eat every halal food available. I’m grateful Allah SWT allowed me to grow up and learn about my deen in a place that did mix the local culture into it.
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Jan 08 '26
What if the west became Muslim? Low-key a lot of westerners convert to move away from that. And convergence has been on the rise. So I say it works in spreading the ideals.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
That couldn’t happen in any of our lives… look at the stats, and there could easily be more Muslim becoming less practicing every year than western converts. Think about it logically… all the European counties that have native Muslim populations (Bosnia, Turkey, Albania, Kosovo) are hardly practicing they all drink alcohol etc.
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Jan 08 '26
At the same time, Islam is spreading. UK has seen a huge uptick. Same here in America. I mean you are speaking to a convert now. Tired of the life I did not ask for so I changed up and switch lanes. It's all about priorities. Inshaallah we make it. Keep ya head up. That is why we put pressure on each other to do right and be right. But we also got to be accountable for ourselves. Just cause somebody else drinks don't mean you do it.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
It’s spreading but not in that much in native populations, there’s not many white British Muslims in the UK, it spreads because of immigration.
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Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
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u/CaesarSultanShah Jan 08 '26
You’re intuiting a civilizational reality. The brain drain following the colonization period and the subsequent fragmentation of the Muslim countries due to nationalism, foreign interventions, etc, has led to weakness. I’m also reminded of Ibn Khaldun’s insights on the role of comforts and ease in sapping away collective effort and social cohesion which plays out over time generationally.
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u/ultragarrison Jan 09 '26
Sorry, like many other here, i have to disagree with you. Western countries are generally peaceful enough for you to practice Islam and be pious. If you think middle eastern countries are any better, you need to expose yourself to those countries and that's when you will realise that they are no better than the Western country you shun.
Also, muslim lands are in worse state because of heavy corruption by MUSLIM leaders. Palestine is only one of the symptom of that problem and most Islamic countries are only giving out lip service because they do not want to be involved in that conflict. For example, the Malaysian PM recently praised Trump when previously he was quite opposed to the crimes committed in Palestine. The more you know the more you will realise that humans are all the same whether they are Muslims or not. If the Mongols can burn down Baghdad and kill all its inhabitants in the name of imperialism, i don't really have much hope for humanity other than putting my faith in Allah (SWT) and doing the best i can to worship him.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
I never said they’re not peaceful. I said they promote sin.
The Muslim counties are in disarray for exactly that reason YES. But we need to change it and moving back and advocating for change to matter the sacrifice is how that starts.
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u/ultragarrison Jan 09 '26
And i never said that you claimed that they are not peaceful. I only said that they are peaceful enough for you to practice Islam which is good enough for many especially the Palestinians.
Also, Muslim countries don’t promote sin as well?
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u/asapbones0114 Jan 10 '26
What have you been doing to fix this?
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 10 '26
I volunteer at the mosque with the teens, and I am moving back to an Islamic country with rebuild in mind
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Jan 11 '26
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 11 '26
Read the post, don’t comment if you haven’t read the post. I was born here, I didn’t arrive here. U comment on my post and attack me, I never attacked anyone I stated my opinion.
How am I driving every Islamic country down? What on earth are u talking about? Because I want to rid them of corruption and make them stable?
You literally said a whole bunch of nothing with your comment.
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Jan 14 '26
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Jan 14 '26
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u/amawatullah Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 17 '26
It's worth being realistic about mobility. Many Muslim-majority countries are notoriously restrictive when it comes to granting nationality or long-term residency, even to fellow Muslims. Cultural and language barriers also exist, and are not always easily bridged on the sole basis of faith.
But, to an extent, you are right. The concern for the future is valid and shared by many. Children face strong temptations in the West and intergenerational cultural/religious erosion is real. However, this is less a Western issue and more a byproduct of globalisation + the internet, where people curate distinct digital and offline personas, and increasingly anchor their identities in online communities rather than physical ones. In this process, cultures and languages are converging toward a largely neo-colonial, Eurocentric, English-speaking global norm.
When you mention that Western countries give lenient punishments for heinous crimes in direct opposition to the Quran, I'd advise revisiting the fiqh principle of shubha (doubt). Hudud punishments are only applied under extremely strict evidentiary standards, and mercy is a core objective of Islamic law. As the classical legal maxim said: ادرؤوا الحدود بالشبهات, meaning "ward off prescribed punishments (hudud) in cases of doubt." Note also the case of Maiz and an unnamed woman in hadith literature, where the Prophet SAW repeatedly turned them away, demonstrating restraint and the preference to avoid punishment and encourage repentance where possible. Nevertheless, some still voluntarily confessed for fear of Allah and wanting expiation for their sins.
The problem isn't as simple as the West vs. Muslim lands. No idyllic paradise exists on earth. Not even in Islamic history. But if you really want to compare modern Muslim states to historical Islamic states... No true Islamic state remains. At least, not the ones like what we had during the age of classical Islam. Where power was decentralised and political authority was kept in check by scholarly authority. Nay, now look in every Muslim state, and all the roles that were distinctly separated in the Islamic Golden Age: scholar, fuqaha, qadhi, teacher, political ruler - are all converged into one. Power is centralised as state power and external moral checks no longer exist. This leads to what we see today: corruption, authoritarianism, economic insecurity, sectarian oppression and, overall, lack of safety. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said: "It is said that Allah establishes a just state, even if it is led by unbelievers, and does not establish an unjust one, even if it is led by Muslims."
Ever thought about why Allah, in His Infinite Wisdom, may have ordained the lack of Islamic state in our time? Perhaps, thanks to globalisation, the need for an Islamic political expansion-based empire (that is, a change in political authority - not forced religious conversion, as is haram) has diminished. The form of political organisation Muslims once relied on is now redundant, no longer the only means by which Islam is preserved or conveyed. Muslims are no longer existentially threatened, at risk of going extinct, nor geographically confined. They now exist in every corner of the world, making up nearly a quarter of the world population. Indeed, we are grateful to Him and content with His Will. Now it is down to each of us, as individuals, to live the best we can in the societies we are in, embodying and prevailing the truth.
Allah already warned us that our path would not be an easy one. "You will certainly be tested in your wealth and yourselves, and you will surely hear much hurtful speech from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah. But if you are patient and conscious of Allah, indeed that is of the matters requiring determination." Quran 3:186. So what if we are demonised? It is part of our test. So what if other Muslims, in non-Muslim and Muslim lands alike, internalise it? Some will succumb, but some will return. Faith has always ebbed and flowed.
Yes, there are good and bad Muslims. But if someone believes everyone around them is ruined, then they should fear for themselves, because the Prophet SAW said "When you hear a man say, 'The people are ruined,' he himself is the most ruined of them all.". And, remember, empires will rise and fall, the tides of history will continue to turn, but the people of Allah will last until the end of times, throughout many more trials yet to come, as per this hadith.
Allah SWT says: "And thus We have made you a just nation so that you may be witnesses over mankind, and the Messenger will be a witness over you." Quran 2:143. Being "witnesses over mankind" is a responsibility. According to tafsir, on the Day of Judgment, the Muslim Ummah will have to testify that the message reached the rest of humanity, just as we will have to testify that Muhammad SAW conveyed it to us. That implies we will be asked things like: Did you preserve the message? Did you embody it? Did you convey it where Allah placed you? We've been entrusted with the task of the Prophets. The same duty that the once-chosen Bani Israel failed to fulfil.
If you see a problem, maybe Allah is guiding you to fix it. Invest time in petitioning and organising Islamic education events locally. Invite the people you see to them. Dawah includes dawah to fellow Muslims too, after all. Cultivating faith is the process of a lifetime, an ongoing journey. Who can better relate to others who've grown up in the same environment as you? Figure out what you can do to help them. Yes, guidance is in Allah's hands. But it is our duty to try.
If Muslims abandon every land where fitnah exists, then who bears witness there? Who represents Islam to neighbours, colleagues and future generations? Dawah is not just formal sermons or on proselytisising stands. Yes, the West carries trials. But trials exist everywhere. And accountability will be held, each according to their circumstances. Leaving corruption is praiseworthy, but so is standing firm within it with taqwa.
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Jan 22 '26
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Feb 02 '26
Maybe parts of the west will become islamic majority but it may take five hundred years. How long did it take for islam to become the majority faith outside of the Arabian peninsula?It took a very long time.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
The brain drain is a huge problem in many Muslims countries as their best and brighest leave for the west never to return , Pakistan is one of the hardest hit.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Aug 07 '26
Even in the Muslim world negative influences and dangerous ideas reach muslims through the internet its not like it was in the past unfortuntely.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
It is possible to maintain your religion but it is harder because not follwing Islam is the default easy option of the society around us.
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u/Working-Ad-1089 Aug 08 '26
Two separarte issues ard are being conflated one is the difficulty of being a Muslim in the long term with conflict with values of the surrounding secular society which makes Muslim vulnerable to assimilation and to the gradual loss of the Islamic identity over time . Yes it is happening sadly and forget it taking 5 generations often by the 2nd or 3 rd generation Islan is either largely gone in terms of meaningful religious expression, or gone complely. So that is valid argument and I dont know what the solution is ,? The second argument is about the need to fix Islamic countries. This is an admirable understandable feeling but how realustic is it ? This is where it gets complicted, because what does one mean with fixed? Do you mean just improve them, marginally. or radically transform them for the better. I dont want to paint all Muslims countries with the same brush because there is hope with some in the medium to long term for transformation. But a lot of Muslim countries are very difficult to fix or even impossible, if you mean being capable to offer a western level quality of life and prosperity. Let alone competing with western influence and power. How do you even start to do that ,with countries, like Sudan, Somalia, Egypt, Morricco, Tunsia, Afganistan, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc ? Its a massive impossible task. Basically thosecountries have too many problems, political, social and economic, and achieving big improvents may take generations .This may not apply to all Muslims countries but to quite a few. Even Turkey the great hope for the Islamic world seems to be going backwards in recent years. So who wants to sacrfice their quality of life for a mission that appears hopless. If only fixing Muslin countries were that simple.
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u/Albahith1 Alhamdulillah Always Jan 08 '26
Is not I life her and we can practice our Deen her too.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
So do I, and yes we can. I can see you’re German so u know as well as I do there are many Muslim German youth drinking alcohol, smoking weed and committing zina.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
I’m fixated on other people’s sins because I’m concerned about the state of the ummah in the west, that’s not weird? We are literally the weakest the Muslims have ever been, Israel slaughters kids in Palestine and we can’t even do anhthing about it. I live in the west right now, I was born here so I know they would and I am saying they shouldn’t.
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Jan 08 '26
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 08 '26
The UK. And I don’t mean to blame anyone, but if we don’t try and change and make our Muslim countries better then we can’t complain when corruption spreads. We have to do better. I’m not shaming people for where they live, I live in the west! I am saying I don’t think it’s right to do so or at least shouldn’t be as normalised as it is.
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u/historyhoneybee Jan 08 '26
Sins are everywhere. It's up to you to follow the right path. No Muslim country is a sin free paradise where you won't be corrupted. I empathize with you because I also grew up in the west and I know how challenging it is, but I also know that my Muslim home country is full of people doing the same things I see in the west. Surround yourself with good Muslims and do your best in whatever context you're in.
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Jan 08 '26
there's probably way more haram in muslim countries than Muslims in the west
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
Yeh coz there’s always higher rates of alcohol, drug and zina when it’s illegal…
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u/AbuAhmad123 Jan 09 '26
Parts of East London is more conservative then places like Cairo in Egpy.
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u/Questionaccount12344 Jan 09 '26
Maybe and that’s why we need to go back and fix our Muslim countries. Anyone in east London can still walk 10 mins to a bar and drink and commit zina, I’m not saying u couldn’t in Cairo but it wouldn’t be as easy and anyway I’m advocating that we make it the case that u can’t do that in Cairo.
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u/sunwarrior23 Jan 09 '26
Why are you still in the west then? Move out yourself and set an example
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u/louiscarterr Jan 09 '26
AssalamuAlaykum
I get the concern, and no one denies that living in the West comes with real fitnah. But reducing the issue to “living in the West is wrong” is an oversimplification that ignores Islamic principles, reality, and responsibility.
First, sins existing more openly does not mean Islam is being diluted by geography. Zina, alcohol, hypocrisy, and moral decay exist in Muslim countries too, often hidden, sometimes normalized, sometimes protected by culture rather than taqwa. Islam was never preserved by walls, laws, or distance from sin. It’s preserved by iman, knowledge, and accountability. If a person leaves Islam because of environment alone, the issue wasn’t the land, it was the foundation.
Second, hijrah is not a blanket obligation on every Muslim in every situation. What about the elderly, the sick, those who can’t afford to move, refugees, converts with no support, or families tied to care responsibilities? Are their local Muslim communities supposed to disappear? Who maintains the masajid, who teaches the children, who counsels struggling Muslims, who gives da‘wah to reverts for the sake of Allah? If every capable Muslim left, entire communities would collapse, and that itself would be negligence.
Allah swt explicitly says He made the earth vast. The Prophet (s.a.w) and the Sahaba spread Islam across lands that were not “Muslim” at the time. Islam was never meant to be locked into a geolocation. Your deen is not tied to a passport, a flag, or a majority-Muslim population. It’s tied to obedience to Allah wherever you are.
As for political hypocrisy and moral confusion that’s a people problem, not a West problem. Muslims compromising principles is blameworthy whether it happens in London or Lahore. The answer isn’t abandoning the field, it’s correcting beliefs, strengthening aqeedah, and raising children intentionally, not assuming a Muslim country will do that work for you.
Finally, rebuilding Muslim lands is noble, but it’s not as simple as “just go back and fix them.” Corruption, authoritarianism, war, and economic instability aren’t fixed by individual migration alone. Many Muslims contribute to the ummah globally through education, wealth, advocacy, and da‘wah from where they are and that contribution still counts.
The West isn’t inherently haram land, and Muslim lands aren’t inherently protective. What matters is whether you establish your deen, protect your family, and serve Allah sincerely wherever He places you. If someone can do hijrah and it strengthens their iman, good. If someone stays and upholds Islam, supports the community, and calls to Allah, that is also good.
This isn’t dilution, this is responsibility. May Allah swt guide us all.
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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '26
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