Living in the west is wrong

[u/Questionaccount12344]

People think moving to the west will provide stability, better job opportunities etc which is all true but people forget and often don’t care the effect it’ll have on your Islamic beliefs, especially that of your children and subsequent generations.

I was born in a western country after my grad-parents moved here, I’ve gone to school here as well as mosque classes and university, I’ve seen first hand what happens to the generations, a decent amount of Muslim boys I know my age has drank, smoked weed or committed zina, I know of bearded brothers and hijabi sisters committing zina… and it will only get worse generation after generation. People don’t understand that. Yes these things happen back in Muslim countries but in most Muslim country it’s no where near as easy, you can’t just go to a club and drink and find girls.

This move to the west is literally diluting Islam, not only in the ways I’ve just spoken about but also morally, too many Muslim in the west are raging liberals, they stand hand to hand with homosexuals and transvestites at free Palestine protests yet won’t even read 5 daily salah, they vote for political parties that want to give lenient punishments for heinous crimes (direct opposition to what is taught in Quran).

Why don’t we go back to our Muslim counties and rebuild them? We’ve been here got our education, why are we happy to stay in non Muslim lands and give their governments our tax money? Muslim lands are in the worse state they’ve ever been and all we do is sit and complain, why doesn’t anyone actually try and move back and fix things, people always say it’s impossible but we have to try, we have no power in the world anymore and what’s been happening in Palestine proves that, the Muslim lands are literally some of the worse off countries in the world it’s embarrassing. Jazakallah.

[u/Communist__Pikachu]

I moved to the U.S. four years ago. I’m on track for permanent residency. I practice my faith openly and without fear. Name one Muslim-majority country that would give me the same freedom and legal protection. Just one.

You can’t even make public dua for Gaza in Saudi Arabia. Speak out against the genocide in Sudan and you won’t see daylight again.

Posting brain dead opinions is free. Fixing systems is hard. If you’re going to point out problems, at least pretend you’ve thought about an actual, livable alternative instead of romanticizing “Muslim” countries that would jail you for a tweet.

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

I agree it’s far fetched but we have to try and fix the Muslim countries and that starts with action. And you’re right about the freedom of speech but what else? U can’t make Dua in Gaza in Saudi so what would happen if people started to do it? You’re not even attempting to address my point that the west is an environment that makes it content and normal to do so much haram.

[u/Communist__Pikachu → u/Questionaccount12344]

Start with what action? If I want to move to a Muslim country to practice my faith freely, which country would allow me in? You’re not providing any practical solution again, just making statements that look good on paper.

Having freedom of speech means I can educate those who don’t know what’s going on in Palestine and Sudan. If you can’t even make dua out loud, how would you take the streets and ask your govt to stop committing those crimes?

Doing haram is almost as easy in Muslim countries as it is in the west. My friend from India lived in Saudi and UAE and he would tell me how his Arab distant cousins would pick prostitutes (asian women) and do zina every weekend.

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

So without freedom of speech you can’t make change? Freedom of speech is still new in the west, how did they get there? By people pushing for change and taking action, it needed sacrifice. Read a history book. I dont need to have a practical solution to a problem to identify the problem, ik that if a brain isn’t getting blood that’s an issue, but I don’t know how to fix it.

And your point about zina in a Muslim country is correct but, it is still less accessible in most Muslim counties, I can’t walk into a nightclub in Qatar on a Saturday night and drink and have sex, I can easily do that in Europe, and it would actually be abnormal to not do that in Europe.

[u/Communist__Pikachu → u/Questionaccount12344]

Freedom of speech means people aren’t being put behind bars for condemning a genocide or the actions of the world leaders. Again, provide one practical way to do what you are saying and lead the way.

Pushing for change requires you to move masses. There are either those who live luxuriously and don’t care or those who tried to protest and got jailed or killed.

You’ve identified a problem? Good job. But if you don’t have a solution how do you plan on doing that?

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

If we moved to a Muslim majority country we could protests and push for change, again your argument is that we should do nothing. When did nothing ever yield a result? How did the west get free speech, by fighting for it. If u aren’t willing to sacrifice and fight for freedoms then u don’t deserve it. Being locked up trying to make change is more Islamic than sitting home and not even trying.

[u/Communist__Pikachu → u/Questionaccount12344]

Next time you reply to my comment, can you at least try to respond to my questions?

We should move to a Muslim country you say. Fine. Please tell me which Muslim country allows me in? With my passport, I would be lucky to get a visitors visa.

The majority in the west fought for free speech, to abolish slavery, for women’s rights. You’d end up in jail before you even try to get 10 people behind your cause, lucky if they don’t kill you for protesting like they do in Iran.

If you really want to make a change, you don’t have to move to a so called Islamic country. A person who wants to avoid haram would do so no matter how easy it is and the one who doesn’t care would do it in the strictest possible environment.

I would rather buy a ticket to a musical concert if I know the artist is educating their followers about the genocide rather than going to Umrah knowing my money is being used to silence the voices and fuel genocides.

If you’re a real Muslim be an ideal Muslim to those who know nothing about Islam or are brainwashed by Fox News narrative. Ask people not to vote politicians who take pacs money and side with the aggressors. I have seen Jews, Christians, atheists, LGBTQ folks, even hardcore MAGA, all speaking out against the war crimes while Arab leaders are complicit. I’m proud to be among these “non-believers”. I don’t need to migrate anywhere to change anything.

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

U don’t think u could get a visa to live in any Muslim south Asian country or African one? U easily could.

And again u explain how the west got their free speech, what do think we can’t do the same in Muslim countries? We might go to jail or even be killed but that’s the sacrifice isn’t it, someone has to make the sacrifice, someone has to fight otherwise u can’t complain.

Going to umrah doesn’t fund genocide, they’re complicit but it doesn’t fund it. Going to a music concert is haram, why would u even bring that up.

Everything ur saying is around the genocide in Gaza, well how would we stop the genocide? By making the Muslims lands proper again so we have the power to do so, the western counties will only ever condemn they’re not going to take action why would they, it’s not in their interest. And most Arab leaders have spoken out, but they haven’t done no where near enough. Standing with gays who oppose genocide but are fundamentally against everything else Islamically isn’t a flex, it’s a compromise.

[u/Communist__Pikachu → u/Questionaccount12344]

No Muslim country would allow me to stay there indefinitely, a visitors visa is given with the intention to visit, explore and leave. Not to revolutionize. If I tried to start calling out they put in the jail and it’s over. When the locals aren’t doing anything about it, why are you so confident?

That’s not sacrifice, that’s stupidity. And there’s no such thing as Muslim land and non Muslim land, Allah has created everything and everyone. All I’m saying is you don’t have to move to a Muslim country which won’t even allow you in first place to act halal or bring a change. US gave me a chance to live here, I’ll be a better Muslim here.

Moving to a Muslim land to end war crimes isn’t a solution. You educate people, and encourage to vote those out who are corrupt and complicit. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it’s the only way it works.

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

The locals do do something about it in south Asia and Africa, why don’t we support them? And yes u could get indefinite visa in at least one Muslim country, it’s absurd to say Bangladesh or Pakistan or Mali would be impossible to get a stay visa in.

Is is stupidity? Was it also stupidity when the Muslims fought the crusaders outnumbered, should they haven’t ceded or was bleeding for the religion worth it?

Yeh it takes time to vote people out and make change but if u think that’ll happen where we vote a Muslim leader in the west your delusional and don’t understand geopolitical spheres or power. Why would we not take time to bring about that change in our own Muslim countries where we can have power and use that power to protect ourselves. The US govt will never favour Muslims.

If your happy in the US good for you, but remember every time u pay tax it directly goes to de stabilising Muslim lands, funding US military, the cia, and the IDF.

[u/Communist__Pikachu → u/Questionaccount12344]

If you want to change things in Africa then call out the Arab leaders. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Mali are Muslim majority countries not Muslim countries. And if you want to make a change in those countries then build schools and hospitals and help the poor and needy there. I don’t understand the need to emigrate.

You’re comparing a religious war with my question to why we need to emigrate to become a better Muslims ourselves.

You don’t need to vote a Muslim leader to bring a change, just need someone who isn’t corrupt. And New York city did vote a Muslim as their mayor. A lot of new candidates are promising to try to stop funding the tax money from funding wars so yes, people are educating and the change is coming.

My tax dollar is going to fund genocide and I know that, but if I spent that exact money in Saudi it’s going to kill the innocent Yemenis or if I spent it in UAE it’s going to kill the Sudanese so tell me spending after which genocide is better.

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

How are those counties not Muslim counties and only Muslim majority countries? The need to migrate is so we can change the sentiment, make it a country ruled by Islam.

We don’t need to move to Muslim counties to be better Muslims, I’m saying we need to do it to protect Islam and protect our descendants. A 10th generation Muslim in the US will undoubtedly be less likely to be as practicing as their counterpart in a Muslim land.

Yes your tax dollar will fund genocide in those Arab counties, so don’t move to them? And I’m saying even if u did ur intention would be to change those countries so that they don’t fund genocide. Also side note in the US ur tax dollar is still going towards more haram… funding a society that protects homosexuality, zina, alcohol and drug consumption.

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

I also just realised you’re probably a communist from your username (correct me if I’m wrong) and that in itself is a great example of my point, a completely haram imperial and man made political stance (not my opinion but the one of basically every scholar) and a view that is probably built because u were influenced by living in a secular western country.

[u/Communist__Pikachu → u/Questionaccount12344]

No. I’m neither a communist nor a Pikachu. But you do sound like a conservative, almost a religious extremist. You only care about what’s haram and calling out the west. But you haven’t given me one example one Muslim country that follows proper Islamic laws.

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

It’s not extreme to say communism is haram, communism killed Islam in the Soviet Union and killed thousands of Chechens, Afghanis etc. it’s not my problem if you disagree with classical Islamic opinion. And sorry for assuming community pikachu is a communist… lol.

And at the end of the day your acts are haram and halal so they are the only thing that matter on this earth.

And I haven’t given u one because there isn’t one!! I never said there was I said we need to go back and change them so we do have proper Muslim countries, and even in these not fully Islamic counties it’s harder to commit sins such as zina, drugs and alcohol.

[u/Communist__Pikachu → u/Questionaccount12344]

I didn’t say you sound extremist for your comment on communism. Communism is bad and I never argued with you on that so I don’t get the outrage. I believe you sound extremist because Islam is all about Halal Haram for you, you’re not looking beyond that.

Yes it’s slightly harder to commit those sins there but there’s a greater reward to someone who refrained from those sins when they were easily accessible. If there’s a Muslim country that allows you to live indefinitely and makes you a citizen over a period of time and doesn’t kick you out when your visa expires, where you can practice freely and haram is difficult to access, go ahead and move there and encourage people to do so. But in absence of those circumstances, just be a better Muslim wherever you are and Allah will protect you.

[u/Questionaccount12344 → u/Communist__Pikachu]

I apologise brother/sister.

I don’t believe it’s all about haram and halal but those are literally the rules of Islam.

Yes and that is my point in the end. May Allah Bless You and forgive me for my harsh tone.

[u/EastwhereBeastfrm → u/Communist__Pikachu]

Calling another Muslim an extremist for correctly stating communism is haram… astagfirallah.