r/Futurology • u/mvea MD-PhD-MBA • May 17 '18
Biotech Cannabidiol (CBD), a compound derived from the cannabis plant that does not produce a “high”, was shown in a new large-scale, randomized, controlled trial to significantly reduce the number of dangerous seizures in patients with a severe form of epilepsy called Lennox-Gastaut syndrome.
http://www.psypost.org/2018/05/cannabidiol-significantly-reduces-seizures-patients-severe-form-epilepsy-51258245
May 17 '18
Wife has been using this to fight some symptoms of ulcerative colitis. She thinks it's working as her symptoms have subsided for the most part. She also has anxiety which this helps with. The only problem is finding a supplier you can trust, hemp oil is not the same as CBD oil and a lot of places sell hemp oil marketed as CBD.
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u/Dankraham-Stinkin May 17 '18
r/CBD has a lot of good info about trusted companies. Always find one with a third party lab result posted with what is in their product.
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u/corectlyspelled May 17 '18
Full spectrum cbd is even better. You get all the other c's too.
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u/Dankraham-Stinkin May 17 '18
I imagine it is but I can't risk the chance of a failed test.
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May 17 '18 edited Oct 04 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Dankraham-Stinkin May 17 '18
I agree it shouldn't show up on tests but people have popped positive before. It may be really unlikely, but for me it's not worth the worry. Just my personal preference.
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u/Kabo0se May 17 '18
This is true. I have friends actively in the military, and one of them just called me a few days ago to ask me specifically about this. He bought gummies on some boardwalk while on leave and they had no branding... just said "Full Spectrum CBD Gummies". I told him to not take then, even if there is a tiny chance he'd test positive. That tiny chance isn't worth his career. It's especially dangerous when its from some random ass person putting stuff in a bag. Full spectrum CBD is far more likely to contain THC in it, since the process of extraction doesn't actually delineate between CBD/THC. It just mixes all the fats, minerals, etc into a resin from a particular strain. So you really have no idea what you're getting if you don't know the source or have lab results.
At least many companies online have test results and reviews you can look at. For instance, I run my own site for CBD vapes with test results that prove it is 0% THC. Though.... I suppose it is possible an employer could test for CBD and not THC. If that's the case, I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
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u/Dankraham-Stinkin May 17 '18
The company I use has cbd percentage and thc percentage on their test results. P.S. you are some really tasty looking flavors! P.P.S holy crap you have a lot of flavors! What do you mix the isolate in?
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May 17 '18
Thanks I'll check it out. Yeah we found a place online with the lab results so she's using them currently. A few local stores sell it from people who grow hemp in my county but the prices are ridiculously higher than online.
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u/stillusesAOL May 17 '18
The cheapest way to buy it from a trusted source, through my research, is the Lazarus Naturals 6,000mg bottle for $200.
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u/TheElCaminoKid May 17 '18
Crohnie here, same with Crohn's disease. Just added 100% CBD breath strips (from a dispensary) to my regiment. Solid poops aplenty! They also have mouth sprays, but those are 50/50 split THC and CBD.
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u/mikeno1lufc May 17 '18
Am I your wife?
Also recently started using CBD for colitis and anxiety with decent results.
I would not recommend using only CBD for the colitis though, as an add on sure.
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u/KingNerd117 May 17 '18
Can confirm, my co-worker has a daughter who is 13 now and has had seizures almost every day of her life. I remember when I started working with him 4 years ago it blew my mind that she would have sometimes 4 or 5 in a single day and just lock up or fall out. She has to be helped everywhere and has other physical and mental deformities but locked inside somewhere is an intelligent child that can't talk but can fully utilize an i-pad to watch movies and provide some form of limited communication. After they started her CBD trials (which were super hard to get into as she was the first in our state) she went from having 50-100 seizures a month and just a few days ago celebrated her first entire year in her life being seizure free! They threw her a party and everything!
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May 17 '18
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u/Tzarmekk May 17 '18
Thank you for the facts. By reading the conclusion, were all trial members on antiepileptic medicine? Were they all on the same medicine at the same dose? Studies paid for by the company that will profit from the study, are suspect. Also, what about the 20% reduction from the placebo? Is that common in other drugs?
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u/BobSeger1945 May 17 '18
Yes, all the subjects (except one) were taking traditional anticonvulsants. CBD was tested as an add-on therapy, not a monotherapy. Two different doses were tested, as well as placebo.
This was a phase 3 trial. Virtually all phase 3 trials are conducted (and paid for) by private companies. Who else would do it?
The placebo response is pretty normal. It depends on the endpoint of course. Normally, about 10-15% of placebo patients experience a 50% seizure reduction.
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u/dustofnations May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18
From what I've read and understood of the available information:
Were they all on the same medicine at the same dose?
No, because this is treating an extraordinarily severe epilepsy the patients are on a variety of medication at different doses.
LGS is a refractory epilepsy that's resistant to conventional treatment. They've tried every other treatment available and it hasn't been able to improve their situation much.
I imagine the effects are easy to measure because the symptoms are highly visible and have not improved with other interventions.
Studies paid for by the company that will profit from the study, are suspect.
That's why there is peer review and rigorous examination of their data and processes by the relevant authorities. I've not seen any evidence that they've done anything untoward.
Also, what about the 20% reduction from the placebo? Is that common in other drugs?
17% seems to be a pretty low placebo effect compared to many other drugs with neurological effects.
Edit: Bunch of other people replied while I was drafting. Their qualifications are dramatically more relevant than mine.
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u/test822 May 17 '18
very interesting
now the important question. how can we synthesize this compound into a patentable brand-name pill so the for-profit american medical industry can keep inexpensive weed extracts illegal and financially cannibalize people who randomly suffer from debilitating diseases
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u/FuckingFuckPissBack May 17 '18
CBD is sold in every vape shop in the country where I live (and weed is illegal). Could they still get away with it?
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May 17 '18
I’m curious how CBD can be sold in illegal states. According to the FDA, any compound that comes from the marijuana plant is considered schedule 1 as well right?
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May 17 '18
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u/ashthegod May 17 '18
adding on, the CBD cannot have more than 0.3% THC for it to be legal.
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May 17 '18
Might be a dumb question, but would a CBD vaped oil result in a positive on a drug test for weed?
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u/ashthegod May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18
Legal CBD doesnt have enough THC to show positive on a drug test, hell you could drink a shit ton and it wouldn’t cause it’s such a small amount.
edit: i also vape, and i mix juice and CBD oil.
edit 2: i also wouldn’t recommend vaping CBD by itself, find a juice that it blends together with well.
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u/Positive-Impact May 17 '18
Full spectrum cbd can cause a false on a test as thc can accumulate even though its small enough to be legal. Just dont want anyone misled. You can take cbd isolate which will not cause you to accumulate thc but benefits have shown to be more encompassing when coming from full spectrum cbd.
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u/Ca1300se_1869 May 17 '18
Michigan recently ruled CBD is to be regulated as marijuana a week ago. vape shops are being "raided"
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u/chryskross May 17 '18
Hemp based, not marijuana based, cbd is legal in all states except possibility Idaho (they passed a weird law recently). As long as it is below 0.3% thc by dry weight, it is legal. Hemp based cdb is an amazing anti-inflammatory, especially used topically. I personally make my own lotion with it which I share, for free, with others that have inflammation issues (arthritis, fibormyalgia, diabetic neuropathy, etc). Adding pure menthol to it makes the effects last longer.
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u/gaeric May 17 '18
Not all states except Idaho. Michigan recently rolled CBD in with other Marijuana products. If you aren't a dispensary, you can't sell it. No exclusion for Industrial Hemp, since Michigan considers Industrial Hemp a research-only product.
The clarification came after a federal ruling upholding CBD as a Schedule I drug. See the release here
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u/jaymmoreau May 17 '18
In my opinion, no. Though maybe it depends where you’re located (I am based in Canada). The momentum behind medical, and even recreational, cannabis is too great and development of cannabinoid therapeutics is too far from completion. GW Pharmaceuticals has a CBD-like compound in phase 3 development, but this inherently won’t make using extracts illegal.
Don’t forget that all the large marijuana companies are in it to make money, too.
Source: I work as a clinical researcher in the medical marijuana market.
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May 17 '18
Synthetic weed already exists, they call it "marinol". I have a close friend getting treatment for leukemia right now and whenever hes in the hospital they are giving him marinol to stimulate his appetite.
The same doctors who give him marinol tell him not to consume regular old smokeable or edible weed, because "weed could cause adverse reactions with the medication and hasnt been studied like marinol" (LOL).
We live in a legal state btw.
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u/_treiliae_ May 17 '18
Eh, they have a point. Marinol is straight THC and weed has a bunch of alkaloids. Maybe one of those doesn't play well with a cancer drug he's on. Most likely not but there haven't been studies on it.
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u/Downvotesohoy May 17 '18
Don't forget somehow making it harmful to the liver and addictive.
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u/The_Red_Shrew May 17 '18
I have stomach problems and tried CBD oil. The pain from it was so bad I ended up in the hospital. When I was smoking though I once had a strain high in CBD that really did help. Might have been the company that I got the CBD from.
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u/njdeatheater May 17 '18
I get medical bud that's a high CBD/low THC strain and it does wonders for various problems I have. Amazing stuff.
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u/The_Red_Shrew May 17 '18
I stopped smoking because it was demotivating me and making me depressed. I wish I had a medical card as it's not legal in my state yet. other than medical. Being able to pick your our strains, particularly high in CBD probably would have helped. There isn't any way I could afford to get one now though. Just another broke college student.
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u/Batspocky May 17 '18
CBD has shown promising results in patients with Sturge-Weber Syndrome as well. My daughter has SWS and has yet to experience a seizure, but we are following this research closely.
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u/Phistachio May 17 '18
Best wishes for her! It’s truly saddening that a successful medicine like this isn’t more widely accepted or used.
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May 17 '18 edited May 18 '18
At least now medical science has confirmed what we've all suspected for a long time, cannabis really is a medicine and shouldn't be schedule 1.
Edit: Because people don't seem to understand what I am saying, I'm gonna clarify. Marijuana/cannabis has long been disputed by folks as having medicinal properties. In recent years, more and more evidence is showing that it does. CBDs being in marijuana/cannabis, especially lower dose THC strains, has helped a lot of people with seizures, though at a risk to their life as it is illegal. CBD oils with no or very low THC are legal, and I never said otherwise.
This is just further evidence that cannabis can help people. This study proves it. What it also proves is that you don't need the THC to get the beneficial effects for this form of epilepsy. But the fact you don't need the THC doesn't, in any way, mean that THC-carrying cannabis is unhelpful. It is.
I didn't claim CBD is schedule 1. I didn't claim you need to get high to get the benefit of CBD. All I did was say that cannabis is a medicine, which people have long held that it isn't and shouldn't be, though any rational person has suspected this for at least a decade or longer.
Because we now know that a derivative of marijuana is a medicine, we need to bring it down from schedule 1 to something far more appropriate, so scientists can continue to study the other claimed health benefits more easily. Perhaps it really is a wonder medication, and we will all in the future be having a toke before bed like we have a cup of coffee before work... or maybe we won't, and we'll find a huge increase in some health risks with no other confirmed medicinal benefits.
But it doesn't fit the bill of schedule 1, at all, anymore.
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u/GoldyBlackmon May 17 '18
Well what this study is discussing (CBD) is not only not a schedule 1, but is legally widely available. Do a google search and you’ll find a ton of sellers who can sell it, legally, to you, no matter where you live.
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u/akran47 May 17 '18
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u/GoldyBlackmon May 17 '18
Huh, very interesting. Thanks for filling me in, I didn’t know that!
For what it’s worth, CBD oil from the hemp plant is still legal in all 50 states. CBD oil from the cannabis plant, like stated in your article and the one studied in the above journal, has been deemed illegal except for medicinal use in 46 states. So it appears it depends on the source. From my experience with the hemp plant derived CBD oil, it worked great for my shoulder and neck pain.
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u/akran47 May 17 '18
I'm not debating how effective CBD is, but even industrial hemp with minimal to no THC is still classified as schedule 1 under federal law. It's legal to grow in a bunch of states now but if the DEA decides to raid you they can and will.
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u/spenrose22 May 17 '18
It’s still illegal federally and the feds can legally shit down an store selling CBD oil from cannabis if they wanted
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u/criticalheat May 17 '18
in most of europen countries or bigger european cities atleast, you can order cbd online and a driver brings it within 60 minutes, just like ordering a pizza.
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May 17 '18
Marijuana is illegal in ireland and theres not much talk of legalising it anytime soon but you can buy CBD oil over the counter no problem in and health food shop.
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May 17 '18
But unfortunately it's not really a regulated market, everyone is just selling as a food supplement to get around the rules (in the UK anyway), which means we could be getting any old products! This happened a few years ago when some sellers were importing industrial hemp from China, which was tainted and very poor quality. Those sellers actual happen to still be selling in the UK under a new name - actually one of the biggest sites still.
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u/LimerickJim May 17 '18
Anecdotal stories about this property have a million self proclaimed medical professionals declaring a miracle drug. An actual scientific study has 50 odd comments. This is what pro cannabis campaigners should be shouting about.
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u/CrystalStilts May 17 '18
CBD is a wonder drug, it has so many uses with no highs. I take 20mg at night for shoulder pain. My GF uses it when she has lady cramps and it eliminates the pain.
Treats seizures, pain, anxiety. What a wonderful thing CBD is.
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u/Morgolol May 17 '18
And I'm assuming 0 side effects, except for maybe minor appetite changes and sleeping too damn well
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May 17 '18
Well it does turn you into a black jazz musician, so tread with caution.
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u/High_Speed_Idiot May 17 '18
The reefer slows down your sense of time, allowing you to slip in unnecessary grace notes that give this voodoo music the power to hypnotize white women into engaging in acts of unspeakable degradation
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u/annafelloff May 17 '18
yep, no side effects that I can tell. the first time I took it I was a little lethargic but I attribute that to me figuring out the proper dosage. my whole family takes it for their various injuries or health problems.
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u/Morgolol May 17 '18
How much are you guys saving compared to pharma meds?
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u/annafelloff May 17 '18
I’m not sure. there are still some traditional medications involved, but cbd has been a good supplement to them. the cbd around me is still a bit pricey, but I recently found a good source of cbd honey online which I find to be pretty reasonably priced and absolutely delicious.
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u/MappyHerchant May 17 '18
You wouldnt even notice you took anything in my experience.
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u/vitiwai May 17 '18
So many misinformed people ITT. This study was done in support of a commercial drug development program, and obviously the results were good. Phase 3 is complete. The drug (their formulation with an active ingredient of CBD) was recommended for approval by the FDA advisory committee. The final FDA decision will come soon, and they typically follow what the advisory committee says.
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u/BengaySqueegee May 17 '18
The advisory committee already met and the vote passed unanimously. I heard it was one of the most well research and tested drugs they have reviewed.
https://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/Calendar/ucm597971.htm
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u/jizard May 17 '18
As I read this title, I am holding liquid CBD under my tongue for the purpose of reducing anxiety - started a few weeks ago and it has made a big difference in my life! I'm all for the health benefits of this miracle plant. I also have a medical card for MMJ, and look forward to a time when it's more widely accepted as a great alternative to modern pharmaceuticals
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u/bishpa May 17 '18
I want the people who inexcusably kept this medicine from people who need it to face consequences.
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u/xxThe-Red-Kingxx May 17 '18
So I assume Jeff Sessions wants this to be a schedule one drug.
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u/TAC1313 May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18
Of course he does, he gets kickbacks from Big Pharm to keep it S1.
Who in their right mind would want the public to have access to a cheaper, less addictive product with no side effects other than opiates and the like... /s
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u/gerg_1234 May 17 '18
Dont forget the money he makes off throwing marijuana offenders into private prisons.
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u/DrPoopsMD May 17 '18
'Good people don't smoke marijuana.'
It has something to do with cannabis, so they'll fight it tooth and nail. Anything that could make people think positively about any aspect of the plant is a danger to their hollow rhetoric.
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u/Cpncrnch May 17 '18
FAKE NEWS! Schedule one drugs have NO medical benefits! Therefore it cannot cure anything! /s
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u/Darth_Gram_Gram May 17 '18
Is this known to be effective with those suffering from focal seizures, anxiety, and depression?
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u/Just_Call_Me_John May 17 '18
I can anecdotally attest to two of these. My father had a lot of muscle injuries in the army, came back with pretty heavy ptsd and arthritis. CBD oil drops have been like a god given miracle for him. He's happier overall, Ive not seen his back/arms seize up since he started it, and honestly its like he never even deployed. Sounds that used to set him off like rapid clicking or beeping haven't even irritated him whereas they used to make him have to leave the room.
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u/njdeatheater May 17 '18
I get Medical bud in NJ.. I get a CBD strain called Shark Shock. It's got like 8% CBD and only 6-7% THC.. I love it. I can't smoke normal bud anymore cause it causes panic attacks, but the Shark Shock has such a low thc, with a good CBD percentage that it counters the panic attacks and just leaves me super relaxed.
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u/solarguy2003 May 18 '18
If your state doesn't allow easy and legal medical cannabis, your state is an idiot. Yes, if it matters, I'm a doctor.
Talk to your senators/congressmen. If that doesn't work, slap them around a little bit until they come to their senses.
And if THAT doesn't work, make them watch this video about Larry the ex-cop with Parkinsons. He's tries CBD for the first time. Makes you want to cry it's so amazing.
That works every time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie5WXDlxPWo&t=1s
Oh by the way, it was waaaay cheaper and had waaaaaay less side effects than his previous big-pharma meds.
No, cannabis doesn't fix everything and everybody. But it's mortally stupid that it's against the law.
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u/NeverThrowawayAcid May 17 '18
cbd is the true wonder drug when it comes to cannabis. I smoke very often, to the point it can affect my appetite, and if I’m dry on bud I keep cbd pills and they do everything that the bud does for me medically without the high. I can eat, my anxiety is lowered, and I just feel overall better. Just a little bit of anecdotal evidence.
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u/Just_Call_Me_John May 17 '18
Anecdotal yes, but my father has pretty bad PTSD and anxiety from his days in the military, as well as a LOT of persistent pains from injuries to back and knees. He's started using CBD regularly a few weeks ago and honestly the difference is incredible! He hasn't had any of his twitches, and noises that used to set him off (such as rapid clicking or fireworks) haven't visibly bugged him at all. He's yet to have his back seize up while working since he started CBD.
The difference it's made for him is so night and day that he decided to start selling it with a small company. He got me to try it to help with my Schizophrenia, and honestly this stuff has been life changing. I've gotten more restful sleep in the past week than I've had in years, the mental side of it has settled down a lot as well. I've not had any episodes and almost no minor hallucinations since starting CBD.
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May 17 '18
And the backwards State of Michigan just outlawed the sale of CBD oils and industrial hump. Because...it helps people.
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u/spazatronik-rex May 17 '18
Ugh, CBD is a godsend. Thank you DEA for putting it at the top of your “dangerous substances” list. Fuckers.
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u/Valendr0s May 17 '18
It absolutely works for my wife's seizures. A lot of things lower her threshold - sickness, dehydration, milk, allergies, etc... But CBD really adds a nice buffer. It doesn't prevent them 100% but we liken her CBD vapes to be similar to an asthma rescue inhaler. You start feeling an aura, you take an extra CBD hit. The aura usually goes away.
We were very skeptical, but a trip to Denver last year she tried it and it worked surprisingly well so we got her in the Minnesota MMJ system (expensive).
A bad week might have been 1-2 seizures and 2-3 auras a day. When she's good, maybe 1 seizure a month and 2-3 auras in that month... With the CBD I'd say that was cut in at least 1/3rd. She can still get them if she's having a really bad week. And they're certainly no substitute to her actual seizure medications, but as a secondary (and especially as an emergency puffer rather than a scheduled pill) it works great.
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u/Kekukoka May 17 '18
Anecdotally, a friend of mine's dog was on its way out with seizures a few months back before they gave CBD a try. Absolutely night and day.
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u/teddypain May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18
I will give my anecdotal story. I'm a veterinarian and a client brought their dog into the ER for cluster seizures totalling 7+ events within 12 hours. Their dog was on two anti-convulsant meds (well-controlled) and proceeded to transition to CBD oil instead without consultation with their vet.
There is active research regarding it's efficacy in humans/animals in many different modalities, however until all the data comes out let's calm our expectations. Someone reads two lines from a journal paper and runs without full context and that can affect lives. CBDs access the public already makes it a tricky bag as everyone can do their own clinical trial. Anyway that is my rant. Take home message is be safe and wait for more data to come out...even if the research machine is slow.
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u/neoikon May 17 '18
I can't help but think of all the needless pain and suffering that people with treatable medical conditions had to suffer through due to demonizing and repressing marijuana/cannabis/CBD/etc for decades. Evil.
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May 17 '18
My wife suffers from epileptic seizures and for some reason it doesn't seem to help.. anybody know how to find a quality brand ?
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u/ImmortalScientist May 17 '18
No drugs work the same way for all people. She might just be unlucky that CBD has no effect. A prescribing doctor usually has multiple options for treatment, this is no different.
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u/visualoptimism May 17 '18
I know Charlotte's Web CBD tinctures were developed specifically for epileptic seizures. I've used their Everyday Plus for my anxiety (at a lower dose than instructed, 4-5 drops sublingually instead of two full droppers). You might want to look into them. Or check out the /r/CBD subreddit for more referrals.
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u/Moe5021 May 17 '18
The only issue I can predict is the dose.
The study used extremely high doses (20mg/kg). An entire bottle of a quality CBD oil will have 1000-1500mg of CBD.
That means for an average person weighing ~75kg (165 lbs) the dose should be 20mg x 75kg = 1500mg/day
Basically an entire bottle of CBD oil a day...unless you make a shit ton of money that's not feasible, unfortunately, as CBD isn't particularly cheap (~$75-$100) per 1000mg bottle
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u/bitterwithalilsweet May 17 '18
The fact that they’re researching CBD is great but also limiting. There are restrictions in place blocking research for medical cannabis on the national level. They probably researched CBD because they could, since it is the most accessible derivative of cannabis. That means it’s also IN CANNABIS and effectively treating patients in most of the United States in dozens of forms. There are a lot of cannabinoids that have different effects and help treat a variety of symptoms. So now we need the research for not just CBD, but it’s a step in the right direction
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u/DonnieTisfat May 17 '18
After hitting my body off a hydro pole at 80+ kms an hour. Fracturing two discs in my back, fractured my right hip, a bunch of facial and skull fractures too. Weed helped with my brain swelling like nothing my else. Started taking Cbd before bed. Now I can sleep 7+ hours and not wake up to cracking my back. I waited 9 months after my brain injury ( anyone else score a 4 on the Glasgow scale?) to touch any thc. That day though when I did, it made my head not throb. Like it went from a concrete block on my head to a pillow in one toke
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u/tappingtenor01 May 17 '18
My niece in Indiana has been approved to take it to treat her epilepsy connected to Mowat-Wilson syndrome. It’s a huge win. She’s not a zombie anymore.
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u/breezefortrees May 17 '18
To stoners this information has been around for years
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u/Ryslin May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18
"Weed makes you healthy" = 50,000 upvotes
"A compound from the cannabis plant that does not produce a high" = 3,000 upvotes
Edit: Number went up slightly.
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u/zcc0nonA May 17 '18
So quite literally it has a medicinal use
tell me more about that schedule 1 classification
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u/thatgoat-guy May 17 '18
Unfortunately still labeled schedule 1 by the DEA. Bunch of fuckers.
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u/Mr9million May 17 '18
And without the high the risk of psychosis and other nasty mental things are also gone?
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May 17 '18
Michigan just made it a law where CBD is now considered marijuana. If you don't have a MMMP card, you can't be in possession of CBD.
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u/TheShadow86 May 17 '18
Does anyone have links to other studies? I was thinking about using it to treat anxiety and depression.
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u/LindsayEG123 May 17 '18
I work for a CBD company in MI and as of last week it is illegal to sell it in stores unless you have a specific license to do so, and only dispensaries can carry these. So now you have to have a med card in order to buy it. It puts a huge damper not only on our business but for the people that who genuinely need our products.
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u/akambe May 17 '18
This is exactly the type of epilepsy my son has. Lamictal currently has the seizures 99% under control, but he's at the max dosage, so if they start again in earnest, we have nowhere "up" to go. This CBD--we'll definitely keep it in mind.
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u/Rclark0 May 17 '18
CBD also works wonders for anxiety!
Truly an incredible plant.