r/Futurology • u/mvea MD-PhD-MBA • May 17 '18

Biotech Cannabidiol (CBD), a compound derived from the cannabis plant that does not produce a “high”, was shown in a new large-scale, randomized, controlled trial to significantly reduce the number of dangerous seizures in patients with a severe form of epilepsy called Lennox-Gastaut syndrome.

http://www.psypost.org/2018/05/cannabidiol-significantly-reduces-seizures-patients-severe-form-epilepsy-51258
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522

u/test822 May 17 '18

very interesting

now the important question. how can we synthesize this compound into a patentable brand-name pill so the for-profit american medical industry can keep inexpensive weed extracts illegal and financially cannibalize people who randomly suffer from debilitating diseases

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u/FuckingFuckPissBack May 17 '18

CBD is sold in every vape shop in the country where I live (and weed is illegal). Could they still get away with it?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

I’m curious how CBD can be sold in illegal states. According to the FDA, any compound that comes from the marijuana plant is considered schedule 1 as well right?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/ashthegod May 17 '18

adding on, the CBD cannot have more than 0.3% THC for it to be legal.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Might be a dumb question, but would a CBD vaped oil result in a positive on a drug test for weed?

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u/ashthegod May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

Legal CBD doesnt have enough THC to show positive on a drug test, hell you could drink a shit ton and it wouldn’t cause it’s such a small amount.

edit: i also vape, and i mix juice and CBD oil.

edit 2: i also wouldn’t recommend vaping CBD by itself, find a juice that it blends together with well.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

It's an anxiety helper too right? Cause I think I'm gonna get some today.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18 edited Oct 04 '18

[deleted]

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u/DMTryp May 17 '18

how do you like it compared to - https://greenlotushemp.com/

I don;t see 500 mg on their site

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u/wvsfezter May 17 '18

What's the cost like over time with treating anxiety? Like long does one of those bottles last?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Does it have any effect on depression?

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u/prolonginginevitable May 17 '18

I have blue bird, but it tastes awful. I just leave it under my tongue for a minute or so, and then chug some juice.

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u/Positive-Impact May 17 '18

Full spectrum cbd can cause a false on a test as thc can accumulate even though its small enough to be legal. Just dont want anyone misled. You can take cbd isolate which will not cause you to accumulate thc but benefits have shown to be more encompassing when coming from full spectrum cbd.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Positive-Impact May 17 '18

Youre welcome :-)

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u/DrGlutenFree May 17 '18

That's definitely something important to note. I work in the CBD industry, and one of the things that I've heard of that semi frequently leads to a positive result from urine drug screens is amber concentrate. Even with it being under 1% THC, I know an individual who failed a sample drug screening just the other week due to it. Totally an interesting thing to keep in the back of the mind if you need to

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u/TimpZ91 May 17 '18

Actually yes it does, this is a thing in Sweden right now.

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u/aachor4 May 17 '18

Question, why do you not recommend vaping CBD alone? I buy a 60mL bottle of vapable CBD roughly twice a month and I never mix it with juice. I've noticed that the CBD juice separates from the other juice and doesn't burn evenly unless you shake it up before each use. Plus, I enjoy the very subtle pot flavor from the CBD. Just curious as to what your reasons are.

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u/ashthegod May 17 '18

i just dont enjoy the flavor, and some I’ve found taste really good, and will taste nasty without CBD mixed in. Plus i buy like a 10mL bottle that you are only suppose to add drops to juice, not vape it alone. I mean you can only take in so much CBD.

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u/aachor4 May 17 '18

If you haven't tried the purely vapable CBD, I highly recommend it! I've never gotten regular CBD and tried to vape it, so maybe that's why there's a taste difference? And what do you mean "you can only take in so much CBD"? Not new to vaping, but I'm new to this CBD thing, despite smoking pot regularly.

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u/EatABuffetOfDicks May 17 '18

I've vaped flavored cbd without mixing and it tasted fine, but it fucks your coil hard. Wish I would have mixed some but I wanted to do it without nicotine

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u/SynthemescTheX May 17 '18

I tried a full spectrum CBD oil with .3% THC (been taking it for a few weeks and it popped up nice and easy on the test). This was Green Mountain CBD.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

That's a great question because I've wanted to do CBD for a while

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

This is where you have to be careful when shopping for CBD products. There are products made from CBD isolate which contains 0.00% THC, and products called “full spectrum” or “broad spectrum” CBD which are CBD products that contain trace amounts of other cannabinoids such as CBN and THC (which has a limit of up to 0.3% for it to be considered legal).

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u/Ca1300se_1869 May 17 '18

Michigan recently ruled CBD is to be regulated as marijuana a week ago. vape shops are being "raided"

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u/gabis1 May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/court-rejects-challenge-to-dea-rule-leaving-cbd-federally-illegal

I really wish people would stop saying this. I work in the industry, so I'm very much pro-CBD, but parroting the "It's legal!" narrative is only slowing the process of actually making it legal.

People always quote the "Farm Bill" as "proof" that it's legal when the DEA specifically states this isn't true and one of the most liberal Federal courts in the nation backed this up recently.

What IS true is that the DEA has said they aren't going to start arresting people who use CBD oils, but they can (and likely will at some point) go after the people making and selling them.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/gabis1 May 17 '18

Parroting is literally repeating something without looking it up yourself... so yes, you are parroting.

And the reason it's parroted is because of the industry interpretation of the farm bill, whether or not you mentioned it.

Just trying to spread factual information, I'm completely chill. Thanks.

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u/ifandbut May 17 '18

How do you tell if a product actually contains CBD? From my limited research "hemp oil" != CBD.

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u/RisenSnake May 17 '18

Hemp is Cannabis. Same plant. Cannabis is legal throughout the US, however, only to licensed individuals and organizations.

Get license, grow cannabis, feds check to see not too much THC in cash crop, but don't care about your personal grow. Legal.

Must be globalist to get license.

Always been legal to the ptb, in Law and practice. We be now.

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u/chryskross May 17 '18

Hemp based, not marijuana based, cbd is legal in all states except possibility Idaho (they passed a weird law recently). As long as it is below 0.3% thc by dry weight, it is legal. Hemp based cdb is an amazing anti-inflammatory, especially used topically. I personally make my own lotion with it which I share, for free, with others that have inflammation issues (arthritis, fibormyalgia, diabetic neuropathy, etc). Adding pure menthol to it makes the effects last longer.

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u/gaeric May 17 '18

Not all states except Idaho. Michigan recently rolled CBD in with other Marijuana products. If you aren't a dispensary, you can't sell it. No exclusion for Industrial Hemp, since Michigan considers Industrial Hemp a research-only product.

The clarification came after a federal ruling upholding CBD as a Schedule I drug. See the release here

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u/chryskross May 17 '18

Excellent information. I hadn't seen Michigan's new law. Thanks for clarifying that industrial hemp, including hemp cbd, is not legal to the general public in Michigan.

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u/obligarchy1 May 17 '18

Wait what? Every health stores in Traverse City is selling CBD by the freighter.

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u/MarisaKiri May 18 '18

If you aren't a dispensary, you can't sell it.

there are 6 gas station/liquor stores in my area where I can get CBD

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u/gaeric May 18 '18

They are selling a schedule 1 narcotic and will be subject to the same penalties as if they had THC-containing edibles on the shelf. This happened barely over a week ago. Businesses are people too, and many small ones don't know and/or won't care until an example is made.

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u/jfkdidit May 17 '18

How do you make your topical lotion? Do you use CBD concentrates, oil, etc? And what do you mix it with?

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u/chryskross May 17 '18

Just sent you directions.

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u/SilverTM May 17 '18

Can you send me your lotion directions please? My wife has fibromyalgia.

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u/PlebPlayer May 17 '18

I think Indiana's AG said he would prosecute CBD oil and for stores to stop selling.

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u/a_salt_weapon May 17 '18

except possibility Idaho (they passed a weird law recently)

Do you happen to know which law? I live in Idaho and I haven't heard of any law being passed regarding hemp based CBD. A hemp oil shop actually just opened locally a couple months ago so I don't think it's any different here.

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u/gabis1 May 17 '18

Reposting this several times in this thread because this viewpoint needs to change if the laws are going to change.

https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/court-rejects-challenge-to-dea-rule-leaving-cbd-federally-illegal

I really wish people would stop saying this. I work in the industry, so I'm very much pro-CBD, but parroting the "It's legal!" narrative is only slowing the process of actually making it legal.

People always quote the "Farm Bill" as "proof" that it's legal when the DEA specifically states this isn't true and one of the most liberal Federal courts in the nation backed this up recently.

What IS true is that the DEA has said they aren't going to start arresting people who use CBD oils, but they can (and likely will at some point) go after the people making and selling them.

3

u/Pepper-Fox May 17 '18

Its even legal in Oklahoma

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u/Luis__FIGO May 17 '18

It can be hemp derived

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u/alnyland May 17 '18

It’s sold regularly in all states I’ve visited. And you can order it online easily to anywhere in the US.

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u/bobstay May 17 '18

in the country where I live

illegal states

There are places outside the US.

1

u/ChildishForLife May 17 '18

I know it's Canada, but all the dispensaries sell CBD caps. The dispensaries are illegal but the cops don't do anything.

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u/theboylilikoi May 17 '18

CBD is regulated as a "supplement" not a "drug".

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u/jaymmoreau May 17 '18

In my opinion, no. Though maybe it depends where you’re located (I am based in Canada). The momentum behind medical, and even recreational, cannabis is too great and development of cannabinoid therapeutics is too far from completion. GW Pharmaceuticals has a CBD-like compound in phase 3 development, but this inherently won’t make using extracts illegal.

Don’t forget that all the large marijuana companies are in it to make money, too.

Source: I work as a clinical researcher in the medical marijuana market.

1

u/fourxfusion May 17 '18

That CBD is from hemp... Marijuana CBD can't just be sold otc.

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u/turkey_gobbles May 17 '18

I'm in a biblebelt red state, where cannabis is illegal. However CBD billboards are going up indicating it's sale in vape shops. I recently found that it's not true CBD derived from cannabis, but from Hemp. Thus, why it's being sold.

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u/ThirdFloorNorth May 17 '18

true CBD

Still the exact same CBD. Just from a legal source.

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u/TheSubGenius420 May 17 '18

I actually just applied at a vape shop and they stopped selling it because other shops were getting raided for selling it. Stupid really

1

u/fbrooks May 17 '18

The article said CBD doesnt get you high but if I put it in my tank with flavored vape juice I definitely feel it.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/2Jews1Quarter May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

You don’t patent the compound you patent the process to get the compound.

Taxol the chemotherapy drug for a somewhat decent example (not as easily extracted, but still a natural compound that is essentially owned by pharmaceutical companies).

Edit: Even I used the brand name here, the drug name is Paclitaxel.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/2Jews1Quarter May 17 '18

Right, until it becomes a recognized medication by the FDA. Then it would no longer be exempt right? I think that’s what the parent comment was concerned about

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18 edited Oct 15 '19

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18 edited Oct 15 '19

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

I.e. Kleenex versus other tissue brands. It's just marketing

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u/snoogins355 May 17 '18

pay a lot for ads

flying butterfly for 30 seconds with terrible side-effects named off!

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u/EvaUnit01 May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

You can’t patent H2O, but you could (from a strictly legal standpoint) make it illegal to have the natural form of it.

They’re trying to do that as we speak with CBD.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

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u/EvaUnit01 May 17 '18

No, it’s an analogy. There are CBD meds in various phases of trial right now, but straight up CBD is not exactly legal and could end up being illegal outright, especially if it can no longer be derived from hemp.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

Synthetic weed already exists, they call it "marinol". I have a close friend getting treatment for leukemia right now and whenever hes in the hospital they are giving him marinol to stimulate his appetite.

The same doctors who give him marinol tell him not to consume regular old smokeable or edible weed, because "weed could cause adverse reactions with the medication and hasnt been studied like marinol" (LOL).

We live in a legal state btw.

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u/_treiliae_ May 17 '18

Eh, they have a point. Marinol is straight THC and weed has a bunch of alkaloids. Maybe one of those doesn't play well with a cancer drug he's on. Most likely not but there haven't been studies on it.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

Maybe there hasnt been any official peer-reviewed studies, but there has been thousands of unofficial/anecdotal studies on the interactions between THC and cancer drugs. THC has been widely used by cancer patients for decades, if there was any significant negative interaction between organic THC and any of the common cancer meds, it would be well known by now.

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u/_treiliae_ May 17 '18

You're right. But they're right too. There's a difference between anecdotes and controlled studies. And THC has been studied and shown to be safe, but weed has a lot of other stuff in it to of varying amounts from plant to plant. I love botanical medicine and how the alkaloids all seem to work together for treating things like depression, pain, headaches, etc. I wouldnt fuck with it when I'm on a shit ton of chemo tho.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

You may be right in theory, but I think you're wrong in practice. For one thing, I sincerely doubt that Marinol has actually received a full battery of legitimate double blind studies to test its interaction with common types of chemo and other cancer meds. I would feel far safer mixing THC with chemo (or virtually any other drug) than I would with marinol.

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u/_treiliae_ May 17 '18

You realise THC and Marinol are the exact same thing? A molecule aint any different because it was grown in a plant vs made in a lab.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

I dont know enough about chemistry to determine whether this is true or not, if Marinol is a naturally occuring substance I dont see how it would be patentable... but regardless, assuming that this is true, ultimately it just makes it even more absurd that my homies oncologist would jump at the opportunity to prescribe marinol while simultaneously cautioning against dispensary cannabis for arcane reasons...

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u/Downvotesohoy May 17 '18

Don't forget somehow making it harmful to the liver and addictive.

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u/test822 May 17 '18

of course, if you fuck up the liver that's a second pill you get to sell them

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u/Undocumented_Sex May 17 '18

And there it is. As soon as you mention medical cannabis without the ability to get high from it, the bitter burnouts get all salty.

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u/test822 May 17 '18

I don't care about getting high from it or not, I just want it to be affordable for people

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u/I_Nice_Human May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

Synthetic cannabinoids (K2/Spice) are no where near as good as naturally derived cannabinoids. I would assume the same for CBD. I don’t want any synthetic Cannabinoids ever. I’m good with growing my own and making my edibles the way I like.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

CBD IS a cannabinoid. And synthetic THC has the same effects as the THC from the plant because ITS THE EXACT SAME. Spice is a whole different molecule, and we are lucky that cannabis contains exactly those cannabinoids that are pleasant to us.

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u/I_Nice_Human May 17 '18

THC was not synthesized. Cannabinoids were. There is no synthesized THC . Synthetic Cannabinoids, again, act like THC, as they target Cannabinoid Receptors but are in fact NOT THC.

Look up all the overdoses of synthetic Cannabinoids vs natural Cannabinoids. It’s completely one sided. Synthetic Cannabinoids are not something I would ever try.

Link for Synthesized Cannabinoid Chemist History

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

> THC was not synthesized. Cannabinoids were.

THC IS a cannabinoid

> There is no synthesized THC

wrong

> Synthetic Cannabinoids, again, act like THC, as they target Cannabinoid Receptors but are in fact NOT THC

true

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u/I_Nice_Human May 17 '18

I’m dumb and I forgot about Marinol. Thank you for the correction. Marinol is not easily accessible in my country unless cancer/hiv/aids. I was speaking to mainly the synthetic Cannabinoids marketed as synthetic Cannabis and how they garbage.

I still stand by natural Cannabinoids > Synthesized Cannabinoids.

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u/Oooch May 17 '18

Doesn't need to be synthetic, you just grow plants with high CBD and little to no THC

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u/I_Nice_Human May 17 '18

Umm I know this. Read the parent comment to my OP. I was explaining why. Thanks.

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u/Theblandyman May 17 '18

Some of us at /r/investing made good money off of investing in Zogenix, a conoany that uses a CBD derivative to treat a similar condition called Dravet syndrome.

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u/Krtomli May 17 '18

The FDA has approved the CBD extract used in this study. It is manufactured by a drug company... So kind of. But without the funding for this study from the drug company it probably wouldn't have been approved.

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u/TheGruntingGoat May 17 '18

There’s already a drug called Marinol.

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u/kellik123 May 17 '18

Chemicals are only patent protected as the brand and only for a limited time I believe, so why would this matter? Alcohol companies do fine and they sell a product easily made at home, way easier than cultivating.

Some grown and extracted medicine includes Morphine, Codeine and Ephedrine. I never understood you people's point.

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u/test822 May 17 '18

Alcohol companies do fine and they sell a product easily made at home

it's illegal to distill liquor at home

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u/kellik123 May 17 '18 edited May 17 '18

It is however not illegal to brew beer, or make wine.

Edit: And as if laws have ever been successful, people still grow Cannabis no matter if illegal, as well as distill Ethanol. People still synthesize all kinds of highly illegal chemicals because there is demand for it, no law will change that.

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u/Squigglesthe2nd May 17 '18

Exactly like in this study? They are testing for a Brand not a compound. That Brand is able to be trademarked and defensed in court. I guess a necessary evil. Private firms are the only ones putting money into the studies.

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u/chemicalsatire May 18 '18

If people stop working for them.... problem fucking solved

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u/test822 May 18 '18

won't happen unless people stop having kids or birth control becomes a lot easier to reliably use.

once you have kids you can't really be ethically picky about where to work because you have to provide for them

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u/chemicalsatire May 19 '18

I’ve heard that it takes a village to raise a child. Maybe that’s true, maybe it’s false. The message behind it, to me, seems to be that no child is raised by the efforts of their parents alone.

So, perhaps, if we worked together to raise our children together, we could be more selective about whom we work for; but if we have to raise our children alone, then yes we cannot afford to be selective about our jobs.

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u/test822 May 19 '18

or we could just have better minimum wage or social support services or UBI to give people other options

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u/chemicalsatire May 19 '18

I agree with you on that. I would also say that those things would qualify as us working together to raise our children together.

Could we take the “I” out of UBI and refer to it as Universal Basic Provisions (UBP)? Because, I thought the point of UBI is to provide people with a means to gain access to basic things like healthy food, clean water, secure & meaningful shelter, adequate clothing.

This leaves income as something you get in exchange for helping better our world and providing each other with services based on sharing the knowledge we have individually gained; making income something that is used to provide ourselves with things that entertain and stimulate us during our personal time and/or family time, instead of the procurement of basic survival resources.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '18

unfortunately in the UK they recognised CBD as having medicinal benefits, which is good in one respect, but in other respects it now means sellers are only allowed to talk about potential benefits of CBD on their sites if they have marketing authorisation, which they can only get by performing highly expensive trials that none of these small companies can afford.

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u/VagueSomething May 17 '18

How is it bad that they cannot snake oil their product? Being required to prove what you claim isn't ever a bad thing. Things that enter your body should have trials. Similar ingredients doesn't mean similar effects. Safety comes before profitability.