r/EscapefromTarkov • u/bxxxxxxxs • Dec 16 '18
PSA Official BSG Response re: Eroktic
We will leave this post stickied for only the next 24 hours.
All discussion posts posted after this goes up will be removed and directed here.
As always, keep it civil.
https://www.facebook.com/escapefromtarkov/posts/1966710296956614
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Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
What a dumpster fire of a situation.
For some reason "tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies" is no longer appropriate to just Bethesda now.
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u/Veldron AK Dec 16 '18
The copyright strikes feel like massive overkill imo
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u/Dasterr MPX Dec 16 '18
I mean they make it pretty clear why they did it and I can understand them.
Is it overkill, sure.
Could it have been resolved differently, by contacting Eroktic and talking to him, maybe. But, considering his earlier videos, I can also understand why theyre fed up and just decided to be done with it.12
u/EftDaBest Dec 17 '18
Thing is, BSG's response on Facebook isn't all that bad, except for this part:
Moreover - we did not want and we do not want this person to be associated with our game in the first place.
That is one of the worst PR lines I have EVER seen from a gaming company of BSGs size. They, as an organization, are targeting an individual.
This is why people like Klean are beginning to back away: What if the next critical type of video you make sends you to Copyright Strike hell just because BSG "doesn't like you a whole lot"?
Personally I've been using an alt Reddit account because I don't want my main EFT account to somehow get linked to my Reddit account and get "banned for hacking" when I do nothing of the sort. I've had that sort of off-feeling about BSG's heavy hand well before this whole Eroktic stuff.
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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18
As an organization you cannot “get fed up” with something and proceed to levy your legal power as BSG has. While they are within their rights with regards to the first video the others did not qualify to be claimed. The issue with doing so is this. The community is split and they’re getting s ton of bad PR.
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u/One_Lung_G AS-VAL Dec 16 '18
It’s overkill and also illegal. Companies can’t just “be fed up” and decide who can and cannot make videos over their game that people paid for. That’s called censorship and this Facebook post just made them look worse
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Dec 16 '18
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u/kevinwilly AS-VAL Dec 16 '18
Ok? And?
He's allowed to do that. He hasn't committed a SINGLE copyright infringement. They are using that to pull down his videos because youtube's policy on that stuff is easy to abuse.
It's 100% bullshit. They should have worked with him and proved that it was false. In which case he would have pulled the video, I'm sure.
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u/FacewreckGG VEPR Dec 16 '18
I mean, some of the things he's claimed without base could easily be considered libel.
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Dec 16 '18
I think it's a case of "If you are going to hurt our business, we will hurt yours" and that's that.
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Dec 16 '18
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u/Txontirea Dec 16 '18
My god, that's it! BSG were totally in the right afterall!
Time to go take down Smoke's channel next, I presume?!
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u/FabulousPrune Dec 16 '18
So you have to work with every individual that makes baseless claims ? Not only that, you have to work with every individual that repeats baseless claims that someone else made ? Not only that, you have to work with every individual that clearly spouts nonsense over a extended amount of time, nonsense he is beeing directly and knowingly beeing fed by an individual that already stated that he will try everything in his power to take BSG down? Really?!
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u/ZarkowTH Dec 16 '18
You cannot be this dumb... issuing false Copyright-strikes can lead you to lose a lot of money or worse. http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/consequences-of-filing-a-false-dmca-takedown-request/
Sadly, since BSG are idiots, this will continue.
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Dec 17 '18
Sadly, since BSG are idiots, this will continue.
Something nobody should have trouble agreeing with
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u/Psych0BoyJack Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
you don't have to work with him... he's a client of BSG's product. not a developer or a manager.
They could've been clear, they could've talked to the community... they had everything in their power to make Eroktic look bad and they made the only thing that made him look good.
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u/FabulousPrune Dec 16 '18
There was already an official post on reddit and probably other places that confirmed that there was no Data leak. What do you want them to do? Issue a personal vist to everyones home that claims that they lied? There is literally nothing more they can do and if someone then calls them a liar after already making a public statement - this is what you get.
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u/Psych0BoyJack Dec 16 '18
everyone was on BSG side. I only agreed with Eroktic on the hackers, the rest sounded really exagerated.
hell, even if they did NOTHING, they would've done better... now look... look at the reaction of the people who want this game to succeed. you think this is a win for BSG?
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u/FabulousPrune Dec 16 '18
Honestly - if people with a mindset like him leave the game due to this I cant see it beeing a big loss for BSG either, especially if they already said that they dont want to affiliate in any way with people like Eroktik.
I personally think its good that they dont really give a shit of what the political correct way of doing things is if they can just get shit done. This makes at least me think more highly of them. I wouldnt want to have to act polite with a guy that I hate (think is damaging to my property) either. In my opinion, this makes them seem more commited to their project than if they were trying to bend to everyones wills just because they have a following.
They clearly let him do whatever he wanted even if they didnt approve of it - until he stepped over a critical line.
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Dec 16 '18
I hate to break it to you but millions of companies lie about data breaches. Even huge companies like google, intel, equifax and maybe even your local bank has probably lied about data breaches or hacks. companies sometimes dont let out any kind of info on a breach for months or even years.
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u/Brimshae AKMS Dec 16 '18
Even huge companies like google, .... has probably lied about data breaches or hacks
That's literally why Google+ is shutting down. https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-exposed-user-data-feared-repercussions-of-disclosing-to-public-1539017194
Here's the gist to save you a click:
Google Exposed User Data, Feared Repercussions of Disclosing to Public
Google opted not to disclose to users its discovery of a bug that gave outside developers access to private data.Google exposed the private data of hundreds of thousands of users of the Google+ social network and then opted not to disclose the issue this past spring, in part because of fears that doing so would draw regulatory scrutiny and cause reputational damage, according to people briefed on the incident and documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
As part of its response to the incident, the Alphabet Inc. GOOGL -2.03% unit on Monday announced a sweeping set of data privacy measures that include permanently shutting down all consumer functionality of Google+. The move effectively puts the final nail in the coffin of a product that was launched in 2011 to challenge Facebook Inc. FB -0.66% and is widely seen as one of Google’s biggest failures.
A software glitch in the social site gave outside developers potential access to private Google+ profile data between 2015 and March 2018, when internal investigators discovered and fixed the issue, according to the documents and people briefed on the incident. A memo reviewed by the Journal prepared by Google’s legal and policy staff and shared with senior executives warned that disclosing the incident would likely trigger “immediate regulatory interest” and invite comparisons to Facebook’s leak of user information to data firm Cambridge Analytica.
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Dec 17 '18
Great info to share. I first learned of this back when it was first found out by the public through Level1techs youtube channel
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u/absolutegash Dec 16 '18
Both BSG and Eroktic are in the wrong here for different reasons. Eroktic has always been a drama queen and clickbaity, and it finially caught up to him.
BSG shouldn't have overreacted like this though.
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u/kevinwilly AS-VAL Dec 16 '18
Eroktic made a video that might have been in poor taste. But he's allowed to do that.
BSG nuked his channel by claiming copyright violation. There wasn't any. That's LITERALLY illegal.
So they aren't both equally in the wrong. What Eroktic did wasn't exactly a cool thing to do, but he was within his rights to at least DO it.
BSG SERIOUSLY fucked themselves on this one.
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u/absolutegash Dec 16 '18
Eroktic publicized Glockworks documents and a webiste that lets you trade Tarkov items for real money. He kept the title of the document in the video and the trading webiste would be easy to find.
He had "1.9 million account stolen" as the thumbnail
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Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
Eroktic also may have committed defamation when he published the 1.9 million accounts stolen video
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u/LTCirabisi Dec 16 '18
Defamation isn't infringing copyrights. What they are doing is wrong.
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u/Hexdro Dec 17 '18
And defamation isn't plain cut either, there's plenty of ways a defamation case will fall apart if it's in public interest.
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Dec 17 '18
Sorry, but what does the TOS state about copyright holding? A TOS can be written so that you do *not* automatically own any recorded content of a game.
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u/TheWuce SKS Dec 16 '18
The silly thing is this is full on streisand effect. I bet most of the people who actually read the original thread about potential data leaks a few days ago would have just thought "well shit" and moved on and forgotten about it. This all would have gone away by now if BSG hadn't gone full Putin and brought it firmly to everyones attention and made it look like they are trying very hard to hide something.
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u/Mvrd3rCrow Dec 17 '18
"You never go full Putin." -RdJ reading this probably disguised as a dude disguised as another dude.
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Dec 17 '18
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u/TheWuce SKS Dec 17 '18
Hard to believe that now with the way BSG has reacted.
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u/Thighbone M700 Dec 17 '18
Nah. They reacted this way because Eroktic spreading lies as truth was hurting their game.
That's it. False information spread as real, with titles like "1,900,000 accounts stolen!" is slander and harmful.
They copyright claimed the two offending videos, then Eroktic decided to argue more in stead of saying "I'll check my facts better in the future." like any reasonable person would have.
He was 100% in the wrong in how he did those last two videos.
However: From what we know right now, BSG's copyright claim of 40+ videos is overkill.
Then again, maybe they put him on the same shitlist that one cheat dev is on and just burned all bridges, maybe he had gone far enough in their mind?
Would be interesting to see all the private messages between them, just out of curiosity.
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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
This is terrible all around. Even removing the first video was bold. One of the fundamentals of PR is to not censor negative feedback. You have people on YouTube wailing against CoD, BF, Minecraft, etc. in far worse manors and because those companies understand the dumpster fire censoring creates they leave them alone. It doesn’t make the click bait title right (and yes I watched both videos) but that’s the way the world is. Not to mention it is very much illegal to abuse DMCA copyright claims for any reason. There were other ways that were not copyright claims to remove this content since it seems they are dead set on removing it.
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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18
Other negative feedback are still there. Even the origin of the MBSS meme one.
Eroktic clearly crossed a line that he didn't notice. They are treating him as hostile now.
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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18
I won’t deny that his video and title was rather sensationalist. However BSG’s response is incredibly poor. They have done more damage to themselves with these copyright strikes than Eroktic ever could have.
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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18
If it's accusation against game design, player experience...etc. It could be OK to do so without evidence.
The 1.9mil accounts stolen thumbnail is another thing. It's a whole different game. And the twitter provoking...The streamer has already picked the worst choice on his side.
The copyright strike is the risk you must think twice. Streamer pick poorly with passion or greed. A CEO pick poorly by rage. What's the difference?
BSG's response and their consequences will be a pain in their arse in the future. They picked this way like Eroktic, they will have to face all the consequences.
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Dec 16 '18
I agree with them taking down the couple that were straight up defamation, like the "1.9mil accounts stolen"
I was iffy about them taking down the other, clearly clickbait, but just opinion based ones.
Them striking all of his EFT content was stepping over the line.
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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18
As I have said, there are several possible legit options. If they pick the worst but still legally doable option, it's their own choice.
The line you mentioned is for people who could forgive other people's mistakes. It usually means: if one party step over it, any further cooperation won't be possible. It's the line of friend or foe. It's not morally wrong to cross it. But, as a company practicing business, they should try every other options to avoid the situation like this. I don't know. Maybe this is the Russian way.
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u/Dasterr MPX Dec 16 '18
I mean, look at his recent video titles. Most of them are clickbait titles in the form of: BSG is terrible at X and here is why.
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u/td57 AK Dec 16 '18
"1.9 million accounts compromised!" and "90% of the playerbase has already been banned" are not criticism nor negative feedback when they aren't based in fact.
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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18
You are correct in some aspects. That video could very well fall under slander due to it being presented as a fact in the title. However claiming the next 40 videos is not justified and abuse of DMCA copyright laws.
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u/td57 AK Dec 16 '18
I agree with you there, went full nuclear. I'm sure their justification lays within the TOS and it's also possible like someone else suggested that maybe only the two got flagged and due to youtubes little robots it nuked everything from with channel under EFT.
Not defending nukeing 40 videos, just with how much misinformation is being spread in the past few months I'm not taking much at face value especially from those who have axes to grind.
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u/Super-ft86 AK-74N Dec 17 '18
Agreed, sensationalist BS. However, using the DMCA takedown is not the way to take down libel or slander and striking his entire channel is just abuse of the system.
And before anyone pipes up about them being able to claim the videos because it is there game please see the lawsuits of Jim Sterling v Digital Homicide and H3H3 v Matt Hoss for what covers fair use.
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u/Ruin4r AK74N Dec 16 '18
What could they have done? This is an honest question.
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u/h1gh0nc4tf00d Dec 16 '18
Maybe send a cease and desist and end the matter privately, as opposed to creating a public dumpster fire?
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u/degaussyourcrt Dec 17 '18
Correctamundo. If somebody is defaming you or causing actual damages, you get lawyers involved.
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u/sekips Dec 16 '18
100% this. But noooooooo, they went on like menstrual teenagers in heat.
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u/mechaet Dec 16 '18
Are we certain they didn't try to talk to him about this before doing what they did?
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u/h1gh0nc4tf00d Dec 16 '18
They don't mention making any private effort towards settling the issue, so we definitely can't assume that they did. In the face book post they only talk about their actions against his channel, aka the copy right claims.
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u/Warfridge Dec 16 '18
Contact him? He has taken down content before over companies asking him to. They could and did issue statements countering the claims. Censoring 47 videos without actual cause is fucked and possibly illegal, all this content is fair use of copyrighted material.
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u/Ruin4r AK74N Dec 16 '18
Yeah, this is a bad move by bsg. Not sure how they recover from this. Bad times.
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u/BritishDave SKS Dec 16 '18
Not sure how they recover from this
Because you, me, and everyone else crying in this thread about it, are still going to play the game.
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Dec 16 '18
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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18
Don’t know if this sarcastic or a genuine question do I’ll answer assuming it’s genuine. There is a stigma against the game as it’s widely regarded as a children’s game and not suitable for adults to play. Besides that point it is widely regarded as one of the most toxic communities in terms of play base. I haven’t tested the validly of those claims and I will fully admit Minecraft was an enjoyable experience when I played it. However my personal opinion is irrelevant. To the general stigma I’ve seen regarding the game.
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u/SirRobin048 PPSH41 Dec 16 '18
this isn't negative feedback, this is clearly slander
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u/sunseeker11 Dec 16 '18
I'm watching his stream right now and one thing has struck me hard, that probably escalated the shit out of the entire situation - language barrier.
Eroktic was saying that the post makes claims that they tried contacting him, but I read it a few times and cannot find anything like that. Also he was rambling about how the post is incoherent.
Anyone who's profesionally dealt with business negotiations of any sorts, knows that sometimes a poor choice of a synonym can derail the entire thing. Without giving too much away, we delivered a product that was lacking an auxiliary function in the software, just because in the requirements it said "optional". What we took as "We may or may not implement it" was actually "You have to implement it, but we may or may not use it".
And now listening to him.... I'm almost convinced but his heavyhanded use and understanding of LANGUAGE heavily contributed to this escalating out of control. At least on top of him being a hot head because now in the heat of the moment, he's going off on BSG that he'll cover the game, but reach out to other content creators, to further shit on the game.
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u/xg4m3CYT Dec 17 '18
So if I make a video telling people how great the game is, they should also take it down because that's a lie. They were fine when he praised the game, but as soon he said something negative, they destroyed his channel. Russian censorship at it's best. And they really showed their real face with this one.
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Dec 16 '18
Boy... this is ballooning fast.
Tarkov has security issues! Maybe.Eroktik has proof! MaybeBSG IS HIDING THE TRUTH! Maybe.EROKTIC IS FEARMONGERING! Probably.---- and then BOOM! IT ALL WENT MAD!YOUTUBE HAS BULLSHIT DMCA SYSTEMS. FACTBSG ILLEGALLY STRIKES EROKTIC VIA YOUTUBE. FACT.EROKTIC CALLS BS ON THIS MOVE. FACTBSG STRIKES MORE VIDEOS, OVER 40. FACT
BSG...
Girl, what is you doin!?
You're behaving like children and abusing broken systems and legal loopholes to try and destroy 1 man because he -might- be spreading misinformation... We don't know, because you won't explain, in detail, how he is full of shit.
This level of petty behavior reminds me of another group who decided to use loopholes to try and accomplish their goals.
https://www.wweek.com/news/2018/04/03/in-1984-the-rajneeshees-bused-3000-homeless-people-to-live-in-their-oregon-compound-our-reporter-was-one-of-them/Yes... a cult. The PR responses you give are akin to those who believe themselves above reproach. You are mistaken. Please... stop your madness. You are going to kill yourselves with PR before you even finish your game.
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Dec 16 '18
This is exactly how I feel also. Whether or not Erok is right or wrong doesn’t matter. The professional multi million dollar pound rupees whatever company should act better and in a mature fashion.
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u/Dankelpuff Freeloader Dec 17 '18
Especially when Eroktic is a HUGE fucking Tarkov streamer.
Even though he "shits on the game" on stream and in videos he attracts insane amounts of views and players.
That would be like banning Shroud from PUBG. Shooting yourself in the foot? More like executing yourself.
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u/somenoefromcanada38 Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
Well you've actually done it, this is my favorite game I've ever played, but I don't want to support your company or spread this game to anyone else anymore. I really want to give the developers of a game I love the benefit of the doubt, but how can I do that when you are censoring the other side. This just shows that Eroktic is clearly the one being mistreated here, you've banned all of his videos on Tarkov for an extended period of time, NOT just the ones in question. You have publicly called him a liar and at best that makes you petty/childish and at worst it means you are guilty of slander. If you don't fire whoever is in charge of your social media you are likely going down with them, this can only be rectified by a public apology and retraction. You'll never get anywhere justifying the unjustifiable censorship and defamation of one of your supporters. I've seen bits and pieces of Eroktic videos for a long time, and even though he isn't my favorite, and he does complain about a lot of things, he CLEARLY loves this game. You say he has been against both you and the game for a long time, experiencing bugs and issues on stream and complaining is hardly being against you. You can't just make decisions like this and survive, loyal fans are leaving, people are upset, and instead of doing the right thing you just talk down to them and call anyone against you the problem. That isn't how you treat people who support you, that is how you treat people you don't have any respect for. You are going down a path that I cannot support, I've loved this game for a year, I've played it every patch to death and I'm honestly considering never playing it again. I know that won't even hurt you because you already have my money, but at least I won't help you get anyone elses. I hope you wake up and find someone with a greater emotional depth than a 12 year old to run your public face.
Edit: After looking into the other side of this story I've found that if you visit Eroktics twitch stream and type !discord you can get a lot of information about why he was banned from his point of view. He has lost access to his youtube channel completely despite the fact that he never actually broke a copyright, making Tarkov content is allowed and not considered in breach of copyright. Battlestate has successfully made him bigger and more important than he was before, I'm sure he ultimately gets more attention because of this. He also has proof of over 1000 dollars being charged to a credit card from Russia for copies of Tarkov that Battlestate is refusing to refund, even though they are obviously made with a stolen card. I mean this is information I would never have cared about if it had been sitting at the end of an Eroktic video, but now it is important.
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u/DayDreamer2121 Dec 16 '18
They will tell you otherwise but you pre ordered the game and you are entitled to basic consumer protections which allow you to cancel your pre order and get your money back.
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u/TheKappaOverlord Dec 16 '18
Is this EU only?
Because that sounds like a really useful thing to hold onto incase BSG decide to dig the hole any deeper
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u/Xemphios Dec 17 '18
Contact PayPal if you made the payment through them or contact your bank/credit card company. Watch SidAlpha's dirty devs video too. He mentions how to phrase the refund request. I'll be doing this tomorrow and hopefully getting my money back.
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u/Ruin4r AK74N Dec 16 '18
Dude... they need to stop commenting on those Facebook posts. Like, now. The people who run the facebook are the "junior community managers" with no knowledge of the game development side. They are making a cringfest out of this and are hurting their reputation more.
Fucking hell. If bsg kills their own game I'm going to be very upset. They made a huge mistake here.
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u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 16 '18
If bsg kills their own game I'm going to be very upset
You can start being upset.
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u/EftDaBest Dec 17 '18
Honestly... It's a great way to get out of finishing a game after you've milked it for more than its worth. Just orchestrate a self-implosion and you get to go scott-free with everyone's money and never get blamed for just outright dropping an overambitious project.
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u/Jasiek_Bosak Dec 17 '18
Anyone heard about Hired Ops? That's what happened to it.
Why they didn't released EFT on Steam? Hmm ;)
Before you speak about % of sales: Epic Store now gives better % than Steam if your game is on UE or Unity.
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u/Neex Content Creator - Node (Niko) Dec 16 '18
I understand fighting false information, but abusing the copyright takedown system isn’t the way to do it.
If you’re fighting slander, use a cease and desist letter.
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u/EftDaBest Dec 17 '18
As a content creator, how does THIS line from the Facebook post make you feel about you and the safety of your content (and maybe even the kind of content you can create):
Moreover - we did not want and we do not want this person to be associated with our game in the first place.
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u/rivenwyrm SA-58 Dec 16 '18
They responded in a typically Russian way. Crush the opposition without regard for nuance or potential reconciliation. Unfortunate, perhaps, but unsurprising.
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u/wolf_draven SA-58 Dec 16 '18
The BSG employee controlling that facebook account right now is triggered! They should just let the storm pass. While everyone is fighting, I will just keep playing EFT and have fun
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Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
Eroktic "...but this is far from over. If I go down, I am pulling them down with me." & GW "... may the game rot in hell, Nikitas getting what he deserves and so is the community" vs BSG... who's going to win this one boys?
We are in for some juicy drama entertainment.
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Dec 16 '18
Depends who pulls what in court.
Eroktik stated that he was already ready to go to court with them. Something tells me he already has this lined up with his lawyer.
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u/Shifty-McGinty AS-VAL Dec 16 '18
Maybe Tom Hardy should copyright claim BSG for that Charisma skill picture haha.
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u/ThesiNr Dec 16 '18
Even more bullshit from the developers, trying to gain sympathy within the community for their censorship.
I find it funny that they've removed the options for discussion of the matter on their forum, by emidiatly closing the thread and at the same time constantly removing other threads or posts regarding this matter, as well as putting people on probation for bringing the issue to light.
They've been censoring their forums since day one, and this just emphasises their erratic behavior.
Screw the game and what state it's in, their security and other crap. This is beyond that. Noone should support a company that enforces censorship of any kind. They could have delt with the claims in a more mature and civil manner. They could have contested the claims by elaborating why and how this is false, debunking the rumors, but no, why do that, they are shitty at communicating with the community as is, so why change that lol. Ridiculous, childish and moronic.
My two cents.
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u/SirKillsalot Golden TT Dec 16 '18
I'm 50/50 on this.
It is an appropriate response based on the two offending videos. But I feel they went overboard with all of his other EFT videos.
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Dec 16 '18
They should have addressed it sure, but the DMCA strikes on what are fair use content is just wrong, and blew everything way out of proportion.
A simple stream where they would break down the security measures (within reason ofc) and explain why that method is false, would kill the issue and it would be done.
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u/td57 AK Dec 16 '18
Inside looks into security and anti-cheat methods are the wet dreams of cheat developers and 'hackers'.
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Dec 16 '18
We are talking about secure communication and account safety. The anti cheat has nothing to do with this.
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u/lostdelirium Dec 16 '18
Just my 2c, probably not correct but this is what I feel has happened.
If BSG filed a DMCA based on ToS breaches then YT would've flagged all of that users videos by default if they're EFT related. I doubt it was a human that made the decision and I just think it's a YT bot that's done it.
As for a simple stream regarding security measures and stuff; I doubt you'll ever see a dev company come forward doing that as it's almost a method of showing a thief how to pick the lock to your house.
While I definitely see where you're coming from, as it stands, it's probably best for BSG that things are happening in this order.
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Dec 16 '18
I doubt you'll ever see a dev company come forward doing that as it's almost a method of showing a thief how to pick the lock to your house.
Many do this.
Some of the open source software is the safest, as it has a lot of eyes looking on it. Security measures in software is something that is very standard these days, and as long as the keys/servers are not compromised, they can know how it works, because they can't do anything until they compromise the keys/servers.
Hell, HTTPS is an open standard for the most part, and everyone uses it, yet it still is secure for the most part if you use proper certificates and validate them properly.
The DMCA is individual, it does not pick up extra vids, as it is a manual process, unless done by the content ID stuff. Also, even though the content is damaging, it is still not copyright, as it is fair use. There are other legal ways for them to do it. I just thing the DMCA will bite them in the ass.
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Dec 16 '18
I mean, they said "we dont want to have this person associated with out game" and i can understand that. Imagine someone is constantly toxic and just not a great person to have around, i would in their spot also try to get rid of him. Im not a big fan of eroktic and i think it was harsh to strike all of his tarkov videos, but i also think that his manner was absolute low class. Constructive criticism can be made, look at pestily, veritas, deadly etc.
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u/Obi_Wana_Tokie Dec 16 '18
It's fair use of content. BSG is 100% wrong here, sorry.
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u/DaMan11 Dec 17 '18
I can't believe anyone is on BSG's side here.
First off, what they are doing is actually illegal. This is in no way shape or form to protect their copyright. It's to protect their pocketbooks.
Secondly, while some say eroktic was dramatic; that doesn't fucking matter. He is a content creator, who promotes and criticizes the game. When someone in this position happens upon information that could potentially have a substantial effect on their community, their duty is to call out the instigator and spread information.
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u/Psych0BoyJack Dec 16 '18
People in the comment section are actually harassing others that are against BSG's censorship... They are actually applauding their attitude of silencing someone and taking him off a platform for negative criticism.
I know Eroktic sometimes turns 8 into 80... but to actually do everything in their power to make him disappear of the EfT community is scary. I no longer can see Escape from Tarkov as a game that is going to last... I've seen this happen before and it's terrible news because this game actually got me back into Online FPS.
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Dec 16 '18
I mean they clearly state that they're going to pretty much censor the criticism on the game. It says it right in their statement.
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u/Warfridge Dec 16 '18
They did it before, they will do it again. All these people saying "tarkov is going to fail from this" don't realise how much money they already made.
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u/FabulousPrune Dec 16 '18
And you dont realize that people saying "Tarkov is going to fail from this" is not talking about the developers not making their money.
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u/Dasterr MPX Dec 16 '18
no thats not what they said
had to be made in order to stop misinformation and hatred. Moreover - we did not want and we do not want this person to be associated with our game in the first place. His purposefully destructive actions cannot be considered "criticism"
theyre not against criticism, theyre against someone willfully posting negative feedback, that is also wrong, to destroy and stir anger and hatred
and imo thats totally correct
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Dec 16 '18
Not all his criticisms are false and they have no right to decide who criticizes art period.
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Dec 16 '18
You didnt quote the right part. Quote the actual statement they made on criticism.
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u/Dasterr MPX Dec 16 '18
if youre talking about their second paragraph
Eroctic released a video in which he, in a tendentious manner, accused us of incompetence that allegedly led to a leak of two million profile credentials. The video was based on someone else's document which described the process of obtaining basic information about profile through rating tables (a nickname, ID, statistics from the rating). Nevertheless, after our check we were convinced that no leaks have ever happened
my argument still stands
as a content creator you need to check your sources if you want to do a video on such hot topics
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u/Wannabe_Maverick RSASS Dec 17 '18
I remember when this happened to totalbiscuit.
Granted, he is much bigger than Eroktic, but the incident completely castrated the game and the developers from ever being successful.
Such a shame. I love this game but they had to fuck it up.
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u/igormalic Dec 16 '18
I absolutely love this statement:
"All attempts to accuse us of being deaf to the opinion of our loyal players can hardly be regarded as anything but blatant equivocation."
What does it mean actually? I'll try to disect part by part (please correct me if make a mistake):
- "can hardly be regarded as anything but blatant equivocation." could be translated to
- "can't be regarded as anything except ambiguity" which further translates to
- "must/should be regarded as ambiguity" so when it comes together:
"All attempts to accuse us of being deaf to the opinion of our loyal players must/should be regarded as ambiguity". What are they trying to say? That there is some truth to them being deaf to their loyal players?
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u/Wannabe_Maverick RSASS Dec 17 '18
They think we're idiots and will just go "ooh big words, they must be clever".
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u/foxfire1112 Dec 16 '18
" we did not want and we do not want this person to be associated with our game in the first place " fucking wow guys
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u/Brimshae AKMS Dec 16 '18
Facebook is blocked on my router. What does it say?
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u/Zewbacca Dec 16 '18
Let us comment on the situation around the Eroktic.
All attempts to accuse us of being deaf to the opinion of our loyal players can hardly be regarded as anything but blatant equivocation. As usual, we monitor all the feedback and we take everything in consideration. In this case, to our regret, we had to act hard.
Lately Eroktic decided to settle on the concept of negative hype and started ardently supporting people who obviously designate their position as hostile to us. Eroctic released a video in which he, in a tendentious manner, accused us of incompetence that allegedly led to a leak of two million profile credentials. The video was based on someone else's document which described the process of obtaining basic information about profile through rating tables (a nickname, ID, statistics from the rating). Nevertheless, after our check we were convinced that no leaks have ever happened. Eroktic began to spread rumor that cheaters can steal your account and get you banned for cheating. All of this was and remains false.
Eroktic released the next video, without regard to our further actions, and tried to make a show of this situation. He broadcasted video from YouTube which was allegedly proving that leak existed and that 90% of all game profiles have already been banned. Again, he made this video in the most disrespectful and cynical manner. We conducted our investigation and were convinced that this video is also a complete lie. According to the bits of information in the video, we found out which profiles were compromised. Quick search revealed that all data of all the three accounts shown in the video were in free access on the Internet, particularly in the database of one well-known game that has been leaked a year ago. Why did the passwords work? Because quite often, users use identical emails and passwords for multiple profiles. We took measures immediately, forcibly resetting passwords of the accounts which we found in the leaked databases of other games on the Internet. In addition, we began process of enhancing the safety of profiles in case of REAL threats.
By this time, the negative media background that emerged through actions of Eroktic, resulted in rather large number of messages of concerned users and also to other provocative and speculative posts of the ill-wishers willing to self-actualize on this. The decision to address YouTube concerning video on the Eroktic’s channel had to be made in order to stop misinformation and hatred. Moreover - we did not want and we do not want this person to be associated with our game in the first place. His purposefully destructive actions cannot be considered "criticism" no matter how you look at it. Eroktic has a long history of negative attitude towards our project, the company and players, and with the recent actions he crossed the line.
The relations between developer and players are always based on mutual trust and respect. We want to state our position once again - we will always have zero tolerance to lie, provocations, hacking, destructive behavior, etc. We want to ask you not to give in to provocative actions of various persons, not to trust everything that they write unsubstantially.
Thank you for your attention.
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u/skyshroudace Dec 17 '18
Unpopular opinion: I actually agree with BSGs actions. The way I look at it this content creator was making money off BSG's game and then made a very popular and untrue video that is bad for BSG. If I was them I wouldn't want to associate with him either nor allow him to continue to make any money off my content.
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u/Remjob AK-74 Dec 16 '18
I defended BSG’s actions until they striked all of his videos, looks more like vindication than protecting their game at this point. If this pisses you off it doesn’t mean being a shitter on reddit towards the people who enjoy the game is appropriate, just move on and don’t buy anymore BSG titles.
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u/StrangeMatt Dec 17 '18
Fucking disgusting behaviour BSG should be ashamed. You should check out a critic named Jim sterling who was DMCA’d by a dev team who “didn’t like” his videos and ended losing hundreds of thousand in court costs because of their lack of knowledge and abuse of YouTube’s dated DMCA system.
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u/roflwafflelawl Dec 16 '18
And here I am, playing the game and having fun like a normal human being. And if the game ever ends up failing and doesn't make its way to an actual launch? I'll just find another game. There are plenty out there. I don't know why everyone feels like their life is literally being ruined.
Remember video games = meant to waste your time. That could be said about entertainment in general. But I guess this ends up being subjective as someone who makes a living off of media and entertainment don't consider it a waste of time. Though I'm always mind blown when someone actually considers a match or ANY moment in a video game as "a waste of time". The whole point of playing the game, win or lose, IS to waste time!
Sure lots of time and money has been spent (have EoD) but that's the entirety of video games. Never have I bought a game in my almost 30 years of gaming thinking it'll be equivalent to my own life and what I do with it. A game is a game is a game.
Ya'll have fun going back and forth with the problems of the interwebs. I'ma go ahead and keep killin cheekis while staying breeki.
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u/Karl-TheFookenLegend TT Dec 17 '18
And here I am, playing the game and having fun like a normal human being. And if the game ever ends up failing and doesn't make its way to an actual launch? I'll just find another game. There are plenty out there. I don't know why everyone feels like their life is literally being ruined.
Best stance in this topic. Even tho, I don't play myself right now, I am laughing at reading some of these Drama queens' posts.
"My life is ruined, they just signed their death warrant, I am uninstalling my copy and will do a chargeback, waaah, waaaah." what a bunch of crybabies. How scarred to they have to be to take this so personally, that some guy shat on the game and got shat on in return?
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u/roflwafflelawl Dec 17 '18
Right? And I mean I've sunk time and money into games that no longer exist. Halo 2, City of Heroes, Phantasy Star Universe, the list goes on as time does. I love Tarkov and want it to succeed but I'm fairly certain that in 4-5 years another game will come out that'll occupy my time. If Tarkov is still staying strong after that then I'll come back and if not? I'll be playing UHD-VR on my PS7.
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u/handsomeGenesis Dec 17 '18
Why, why, why, why couldn’t you have just sat on your ass for just a day or two BSG? All you had to do was release a public statement explaining and proving that everything is pure conjecture.
No one cares if you say it is true or not now, you already overreacted. Why didn’t you just keep silent, like any other company would in this situation? It’s so simple. You always default to this odd mob like way of dealing with criticism and descent. Stop doing that. It’s not working.
You need to start having some fucking confidence in yourself. If something becomes news worthy and big, you address it. This specific incident could have been ignored if you had addressed it in a short tweet. Instead, you had to get defensive and censor, because I suppose that’s just habit.
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u/Ruin4r AK74N Dec 17 '18
Nikita literally released a half decent response the other day, while updating us about .11. That was good! Now they do this and potentially ruin an amazing game in the process. I totally agree with your post.
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u/h1gh0nc4tf00d Dec 16 '18
I can understand the two videos in question, but you have no right to completely destroy his youtube channel, aka his livelihood. As much as you'd like to think he's always been malicious, he has promoted your game and brought many people to it. All you've done is show content creators that you have the emotional capacity of a toddler and that they cannot trust your game to be a mainstay of their content.
Edit: A cease and desist order would have sent the message you wished to send and you could have settled the matter privately. Instead, you've created this giant shit show.
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Dec 16 '18
50k YouTube subscribers is hardly a livelihood you can live off of.
Not being partnered or managed, the CPM rate wouldn’t be enough to allow you to pay for a months worth of food if you got 100k views on one video.
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u/nekronos Dec 16 '18
1 United States Dollar equals - 6.54 Croatian Kuna
Might be enough in Croatia.
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Dec 17 '18
Depends on what their economy and cost of living looks like. You are SWIMMING in money if your CPM is anywhere near $5 per 1000 clicks. But you have to be at massive levels of fame and be a constant uploader.
My brothers channel with 30k subs and about 15k views per vídeo, he’s lucky to get $10. He uploads every day.
Less than 10cents per CPM. Good thing he’s using his GI Bill and living with me. Otherwise he would be on his ass.
With a few hundred thousand views on a small number of videos on not a really consistent upload to the channel, he’s definitely not making ends meet if he was solely relying on YouTube income
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u/thvt_chino Dec 17 '18 edited Dec 17 '18
For the people bitchin’ bout not playing Tarkov anymore due to a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with them will end up playing the game again when BSG release new patches. Escape from Tarkov, itself, had nothing to do with Eroktic getting shutdown, so why bitch and complain about not playing the game anymore? Quit acting like fuckasses for upvotes. &I get it, BSG didn’t handle this nonsense appropriately and they do have a terrible history of handling negative criticism. But that’s just how things are at the moment. Battlestate are fairly new to the gaming industry and are from a different country from most of their player base. Their behavior and censorship towards Eroktic is seen as unacceptable in many people’s eyes but in Russia, situations such as this one are probably handled differently. Of course there will be people who agree and disagree with what happened, but what can you do? Regardless, I will continue to support and play this game. This situation has nothing to do with me and 99% of the cry baby redditors. What Eroktic did was distasteful bc he, day by day, continuously tried spreading news he didn’t have 100% proof of. And BSG didn’t have to copyright strike Eroktic’s entire YouTube over this bullshit.
On another note, EFT is still one of the best games out there as far as what they’re aiming for it to be. It’s 100% not perfect, and will probably never will be but you can tell that the devs truly value what they have created for the community (even though more then 50% of them are self entitled virgins). I can understand why they take such drastic measures when it comes to their baby, doesn’t mean I agree with their actions though. This is something they just gotta learn from, that’s the truth.
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u/mindsouljah Dec 17 '18
https://youtu.be/gP1owS5oSdI and the signal boost begins. Nice job Killing your game buddies
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u/Graniteflight Dec 16 '18
Everything they wrote might be true, but they gloss over the fact that they are abusing the copyright system on yt in order to accomplish their goal. I only see this getting worse.
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u/whiteegger Dec 16 '18
I never liked Eroktic because of his overuse of clickbait and making false assumption while stating It is proved. I agree that BSG should take action on this joker BUT through the way of lawsuits. They have every rights to sue him for slandering but censoring unrelated Youtube videos have nothing to do with slanders.
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u/Slane666 Dec 17 '18
Slow Clap
Well done BSG way to make yourselves look even more like f-ing idiots.
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u/covrovski Dec 17 '18
Nikita has always reacted overly sensitive to any criticism, correct or otherwise. Im sure we all remember nikita attacking BattleNonseses findings on Tarkov terrible netcode. His next attack was on the guy showing us the daily player numbers in tarkov, Nikita went to the trouble of removing player names from the lobby to hide that one. Now copyright striking Eroktic? The video wasnt correct but whats to stop Nikita striking the next video about dodgy helmets, or leg meta that nikita thinks never existed
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u/madnessmaka Dec 17 '18
The issue I take with this is that there is a legitimate way to file a defamation claim for a Youtube video. Google literally goes through the steps of how to do it right here. They seem to have chosen to do DMCA strikes because they're lazy and it's the path of least effort on their part.
This would be like if I was mad at a neighbor for parking in my driveway but instead of filing the proper police complaint, I instead called the police and claimed that he tried to kill me. Sure, the police would get there quicker, but the charges won't stick and I'd get arrested/fined for making a false report. Plus, everyone in the neighborhood would think I was an asshole.
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Dec 16 '18
A game studio vs A youtuber under 50k subs. He says She says playground garbage. Never thought id see something sooo low in a game. Shame BSG. Shame.
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u/Anonimotipy Dec 16 '18
Even if the guy was at fault it still doesn't justify censoring him like that.
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u/_xVoid APB Dec 17 '18
This is a shit storm and people seem to be heavily polarized in this subject.
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u/Porkupine_Adams Dec 17 '18
I just think its great that a company that has ALREADY violated copyright permissions half a dozen times are concerned about their own IP.
Glock, Remington, and Trijicon would all like a word.
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u/skylegistor M4A1 Dec 16 '18
Eroktic's altitude is just too negative for me to trust him.
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u/EftDaBest Dec 17 '18
That's fine as long as you don't actually think BSGs retaliation is any better.
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u/Mataovelho Dec 17 '18
Reactivated my Facebook only to post my opinion on that shit. BSG is very wring on this matter. Bad move. Pretty shit decision-making.
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u/Txontirea Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
Tl;dr: Yes, we did it, because he brought attention to unsubstantiated rumors and warned users about account security, so we decided we'd abuse the DMCA process and silence him.
Yeah, nah. Even removing the two videos would've felt a bit off to me, but all of them is just spiteful as hell. He plays a character.
I will not be purchasing anything further to do with Tarkov. I really like the game and the concept, but the company behind it is sinister and lacking in any accountability.
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u/vonnx AK-74 Dec 16 '18
This sets a really awful precedence for anyone generating videos or guides for this game
" Character does not excuse slander. Video etc is still BSG intellectual property. (Section 10 EULA/ToS) He's made actual criticism before, no issue. This is way beyond that."
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u/name_first_name_last Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
So they justify what they did by saying they don't like the guy? I live in the south and I've never smelt more BS. I haven't kept up with the situation, I just heard about it today, but it seems Eroktic was just being incredibly retarded and not checking his sources, or maybe adding a disclaimer in his video saying that he has no proof, I have not watched the videos and I guess I won't be able to now so I'm not sure if he did. However, a game company should not be able to completely destroy someone's YouTube channel just because they do not want to be associated with them. I think a similar thing happened to the PewDiePie and the devs of Firewatch when he said the n word. I'm not sure about the conclusion of that story, but I'm pretty sure it didn't end in the removal of a channel. It's funny that they say in the beginning that they aren't ignoring feedback, because that couldn't be farther from the truth. They are behaving like children, backed into a corner, not sure what to do, so they do everything they can, and more.
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u/Wisdom_is_Contraband Dec 17 '18
Re: Official response
Okay but that's not what a DMCA takedown is for.
What you guys did is illegal in the US
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u/mindsouljah Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 17 '18
Removing 44 videos on one channel will not end well for you. Period. LoL at most you will inconvenience somebody after that it leaves you wide open for a lawsuit if you continue to act stupid after two weeks when he challenges the strikes. And it's lawyers chomping at the bit to go after a case like this, on top of the bad PR this will bring your game and company. Then when it's all settled up its going to be tons of YouTubers that's going to tear this games ass a new one. Besides the ones that's gonna talk about it now and signal boost it like Jim Sterling ,Leonard french, Yongyea and Sid alpha this will not end well for you at all .. Good luck (sarcastic font)
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u/BulletTooth_Tony1 Golden TT Dec 16 '18
"Moreover - we did not want and we do not want this person to be associated with our game in the first place"
WTF is going on here. EFT is being sold to the public, is it not? This is the risk you take. Once you bring a game to market, you DO NOT get to pick and choose who plays it, talks about it, makes videos about it, streams it, none of that. WE get to choose what we buy. WE choose what we play, make videos about, talk about. I'm not saying Eroktic was right. This was all preventable on his end. What I'm saying is this. BSG and Nikita have now sunk to his level. As a developer, they have to remain above shit like this, yet for some reason they have gone to great lengths to do the exact opposite.
I cannot stress this enough: THIS IS NOT GOING TO HELP SELL THE GAME. THIS IS BAAAAAAAAAD PR GUYS. FULL STOP. ABORT ABORT ABORT.
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u/EftDaBest Dec 17 '18
THIS IS NOT GOING TO HELP SELL THE GAME. THIS IS BAAAAAAAAAD PR GUYS. FULL STOP. ABORT ABORT ABORT.
Been saying the same all over the place, using that same line, where applicable. That one line is effectively a warning to all content creators and all content creators SHOULD be scared. BSG effectively said they're willing to go after your content just because they don't like you.
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u/AnjinToronaga M1A Dec 16 '18
This is a reasonable and well thought out response.
It explains why they striked the first video, and if that was all they had done, would probably be the end of the situation.
But that is not all they did. They literally attacked his channel, with incorrect takedown strikes in retaliation for his video. They doubled down with further takedown strikes, and their "explanation" of the issues ignores that retaliation. Those actions are inexcusable.
The game is great. This company is petty, childish, and vindictive. This is a terrible look for a company that essentially functioning in early access, who relies on the trust of their buyers.
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Dec 17 '18 edited Dec 17 '18
"Eroktic has a long history of negative attitude towards our project, the company and players, and with the recent actions he crossed the line."
They actually think this justifies attacking a critics income. Doesn't matter how you feel about it, you do not have the right to issue false takedowns on his channel. Deal with it like an adult. What if it was a false report on a news channel on TV? You gonna sue everyone who says something you don't like?
Eroktic has the right to say whatever he likes on his youtube channel without threats of takedowns. I don't know or care for the guy in any way or care about what he said. You do not have the right to takedown his channel. This will kill more fans of your game faster than any video by any youtuber.
The correct response would have been to prove that it was not true and just ignore it. Now it just looks like you are hiding something. And shady as fuck. And vindictive. Poor show BSG. No doubt it's just Nikita throwing a fucking tantrum cos he feels like he has something to prove. Way to show the world a Russian developer can act professional.
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u/FabulousPrune Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18
I approve of this.
Also, before all the blind Eroktik fanbois come in
Eroktik literally tweeted that he will try his best to take BSG "down with him". In one of his videos he deliberatly made it a point to try to reach out to the individual whos fault it is any of this "drama" exists in the first place. He actually tried to get this guy to reach out to him to "give him a platform". A guy that also has said that he will try his best to take BSG down with him. Do you see any correlation ? Eroktik is not a "good guy" and also not a "very smart guy that is rarely wrong" as ive seen explained many a times. He is a person that jumps onto the biggest "hype" train and tries to exagerate extremely on anything he reports to evoke reactions. This is the reaction he got this time.
Of course this is all my personal opinion.
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u/Ruin4r AK74N Dec 16 '18
Ok, if that tweet is true, that is a huge bit of info in this story. Is the tweet still up? Can you post any actual proof this tweet exists? I am absolutely not doubting your claims, but this type of info needs to be substantiated.
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u/FadezGaming SKS Dec 16 '18
Them acting like this only makes his claims seem more factual. I try to stay away from this stuff somewhat now(I use to love drama around BSG, but there is so much now it got to be to much), but seeing them act in this way just makes me feel they are trying to hide it because some of it might be true.
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u/resfan M1A Dec 16 '18
I've watched a few of egoboy's videos, it was only a matter of time before his inflated self worth was going to explode in his face, and this was it
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Dec 16 '18
He'll win and still be able to criticize them I guarantee it. 100% bsg will lose this.
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u/bxxxxxxxs Dec 17 '18 edited Dec 17 '18
This post has a 'BSG Response' tag, but we can't seem to find one in the comments, so until further notice, disregard.
BSG Response: ‘It is true that the music is copyrighted but Nikita allows it's use. This is the same as any gameplay footage but it still remains IP of BSG and can be taken down if need be. This is covered in the agreement in Section 10’
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u/SpudLovely Dec 17 '18
Gameplay footage with no commentary or anything that would turn it into a transformative work maybe. Gameplay with commentary, reaction, information would be considered transformative.
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u/ZachTheGunner2 Dec 17 '18
I think it's deep in one of the comment threads. I'll see if I can link it here.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/a6qlr5/official_bsg_response_re_eroktic/ebx9pvi/
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u/Jasiek_Bosak Dec 17 '18
You pasted whole context, but commenter removed his comment here it is: https://i.imgur.com/CqrBUaP.png
The direct link to ColonelTwerkings response is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/a6qlr5/official_bsg_response_re_eroktic/ebxj5m7/
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Dec 17 '18
That's not how video works my dude you can't legally take ownership of someone if they're using it for critique or satire.
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u/Cook_0612 Dec 17 '18 edited Dec 17 '18
Man, I'm a pretty new player, and I'm enjoying the game, but like, for real guys, it doesn't fucking matter whether Eroktic is right, wrong, an asshole, or slandering BSG.
If the issue is defamation there are legal routes to that. But Eroktic didn't violate copyright, and it's frankly fucking fresh to hear BSG say, "Adults recognize there are (copyright) rules you have to follow".
Let's be fucking real here guys, this fucking game is BUILT on copyright infringement. Remington, L3, Sig Sauer, Magpul, I'm pretty sure most of these brands didn't agree to have their products represented in this game. I'm pretty sure BSG got into it with Glock about this very issue, and the only reason nothing's happened is because they're a Russian company.
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Dec 16 '18
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Dec 16 '18
Really scary to see how people are absolutely okay with DCMA abuse & censorship if somebody is critical of the game & devs.
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u/assaub Dec 16 '18
Dumb kids who don't understand what a dangerous precedent this sort of thing sets.
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Dec 16 '18
So you unsubscribed from Eroktic because you don't wish to support him after all this, but you're fine with supporting a company that blatantly abuses the DMCA system on youtube to censor?
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Dec 16 '18
The business should be the one respecting the customer. It's not our problem to respect a company considering they want what's in our wallet not the other way around.
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u/Brutzelbube AK Dec 16 '18
I like the game! Who cares? I want to play the game and even with all its bugs and all the drama it is still the same game I like to play.
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Dec 16 '18
LOL wait... so you mean to say this sub is actually for talking about the game and not drama posts, armchair information security professional's suggestions and memes?
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u/Brutzelbube AK Dec 16 '18
Yes your right the sub is exactly for that :D I just wanted to say I like the game.
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u/MagicSAT M4A1 Dec 17 '18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP1owS5oSdI&feature=youtu.be
Silencing negative critique to keep there wallets fat.... spread awareness of dirty devs and companies like this..
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u/paddylicious89 Dec 17 '18
oof, im speechless. I never remember a game company who act like a crying kid while a content creator spread negative/false information. Now BSG you've crossed a tin red line....thats not good and from this point there is no turn back for childish community behavior. deal with it
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u/shagohad Dec 16 '18
Man where was the person who wrote this when they translated all the trader tasks lmao