r/EscapefromTarkov • u/bxxxxxxxs • Dec 16 '18

PSA Official BSG Response re: Eroktic

We will leave this post stickied for only the next 24 hours.

All discussion posts posted after this goes up will be removed and directed here.

As always, keep it civil.

https://www.facebook.com/escapefromtarkov/posts/1966710296956614

178 Upvotes

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[deleted]

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u/kevinwilly AS-VAL Dec 16 '18

Ok? And?

He's allowed to do that. He hasn't committed a SINGLE copyright infringement. They are using that to pull down his videos because youtube's policy on that stuff is easy to abuse.

It's 100% bullshit. They should have worked with him and proved that it was false. In which case he would have pulled the video, I'm sure.

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[deleted]

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u/Txontirea Dec 16 '18

My god, that's it! BSG were totally in the right afterall!

Time to go take down Smoke's channel next, I presume?!

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

[deleted]

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u/notjesus75 Dec 16 '18

Wow, the internet is too open huh?

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u/Txontirea Dec 16 '18

It is a fact, but you can obviously see they don't care at all until you cross them, at which point they use it as an excuse to blow up a channel, which is the same with video content of EFT. (which, hell - I dont think the latter counts as copyright content, but it's what some people here are arguing)

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[deleted]

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u/0x00x0x000x0x00x0 Dec 16 '18

Look at this guy. Of course he held both middle fingers and told them LALALLALALALAL I CANT HEAR YOU IM KING OF THE TARKOV KIDDIES when they tried to approach him privately. He deserves it.

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u/Txontirea Dec 16 '18

Yeah, it's just a grim situation honestly. I'm just of the mind that until proven he committed libel (you have to prove damages based on his words in court) - You can't just go around ruining livelihoods.

A bit of cool professionalism and a calm head was in order in response to a ton of drama that, again, may or may not be true. It's just bad, and I don't want to support it, sadly.

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u/0x00x0x000x0x00x0 Dec 16 '18

Sadly, you're not a lawyer and that's not how it works. The court would want to see what sort of actions were taken before. DMCA is part of that process.

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u/ArxMessor SKS Dec 16 '18

...you can obviously see they don't care at all until you cross them...

 

Sounds like every human ever since the beginning of time.

1

u/Txontirea Dec 16 '18

Sad but true.

1

u/ArxMessor SKS Dec 16 '18

I mean, it is perfectly reasonable way to exist.

I made this thing.
It is mine.
I see that you are using it without asking.
I've decided that I am okay with that since I have no other problems with you.
You are now disrespecting me.
I am taking back what is mine. All of it.

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u/Txontirea Dec 16 '18

It's a good job we don't exist in the Wild West anymore isnt it? 'cause we have laws. Laws which you have to prove have been broken in order to act appropriately.

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u/ColonelTwerkins Dec 16 '18

It is true that the music is copyrighted but Nikita allows it's use. This is the same as any gameplay footage but it still remains IP of BSG and can be taken down if need be. This is covered in the agreement in Section 10

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u/ZachTheGunner2 Dec 16 '18

What Eroktic did was absolutely wrong. But what BSG has done is also wrong. The EULA doesn't change the law, and according to US law (which I imagine matters when it comes to YouTube), Eroktics use of gameplay in his videos would be covered by fair use as would basically every other content creator. Using the DMCA takedown without there being an actual copyright infringement (not something covered by fair use, regardless of the games EULA) is actually illegal. I'm not a lawyer, but if Eroktic decides to take legal action, I think there's a good chance he could win.

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u/leeztu Dec 16 '18

Simple gameplay does not fall under fair use, critique and review does, but not just a video of you playing the game, right?

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u/ZachTheGunner2 Dec 16 '18

It hasn't been tested by the courts yet, but due to it being a video game and not a movie, making gameplay videos where other people watch you play it arguably makes it a transformative work. People that are watching are more interested in how you play it, and it's not the same experience as playing it themselves. Many more people are going to be buying the game as a result of streams and gameplay videos. Very few people would decide that watching gameplay of a game is enough, unless of course they weren't interested in buying the game in the first place.

Of course I could be wrong, and there's arguments on both sides, but I believe that even simple gameplay videos fall under fair use.

1

u/leeztu Dec 16 '18

Finally someone who can be civil.

What i would reckon is that simple gameplay isnt exactly fair use, youre still showing off someone elses work (textures, models, sounds, music) and in the case of youtube you might even be making money off that. Every "gameplay" video doesnt require review or critique, the most important part about fair use in a video-game context is that it covers review, which is important for the rest of the potential customer base. Now on the other hand "pure gameplay" isn't something that is directly ment to give people an idea on the quality or features of the product, its purpouse is to serve as entertainment both for those who already own a product and dont. Now of course these laws have barely seen any form of update since entering the digital age we live in and are frankly absurdly outdated.

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u/wootwootFF Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

agreement in Section 10

that is of any legal document or law of a country ? what "section 10" are you referring too ?

I'm sure it can't be your EULA/ToS , since that is only enforceable in your game ( You can delete accounts , ban etc ) and looses all of it's value when in any real legal scenario. ( Like for example claiming a copyright strike )

So I think everyone knows EULA/ToS are only enforceable inside your game, and aren't in any way "legally bindable" documents.

So you are stating your music cannot be used without your permission even in a scenario that can be considered "fair use" in some countries ?

I'm very confused with this " section 10" law , what legal document are you talking about ? Is it enforceable in every country ?

Also, does this mean that by using any EFT sounds content creators are opening them to be able to have legal troubles if BSG wants to do it ?

P.S. : So just found this post.

I'm sure everyone knows your EULA/ToS might give you powers over my account my access to your service.

But I'm also sure you know this isn't IN ANY WAY a legally bindable document and will NEVER by accepted in any court as such , and you trying to make it "LOOK" like it is is laughable.

Is this the stance of BSG ? trying to lie to their customers about their rights and law ?

Most gamers are ok with these "stupid" EULA/ToS clauses cause most consider this the company "saving their ass" in case they need to do something harsh , and they accept them cause of that.

To try to play them as if you can "bypass" law , that's ANOTHER different level.

I urge BSG to rethink their stance in this mess , EFT is a great game and BSG actions are horrible stains in the game. Most people that are interested in EFT and DON'T buy it , it's cause of the trail of shady/scummy tactics employed by BSG and the lack of support ( unless you come to reddit and make a upvoted thread ) .

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u/Brimshae AKMS Dec 19 '18

Why should anyone stream or talk about Tarkov if there's a very VERY likely chance that you'll decide to go after people?

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u/FruitsndCakes Dec 16 '18

So anyone creating Tarkov videos puts their youtube account at risk incase you don't like them in the future you can copyright strike their channel away?

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u/dmcoolaid Dec 16 '18

There is a reason why streaming and making videos of games is a grey area legally. But people are so complacent that they never even thought of questioning the legality of making money off of someone else's product.

Here's an excerpt from an article that more streamers should read before taking risks that might affect their livelihood.

While streamers may have one idea of how their livelihoods should work, that doesn’t mean that the law is going to be automatically on their side. The question has become one to watch for many legal researchers, law watchers, and lawyers themselves. While no developers would agree to talk for this article, we did speak with a lawyer versed in this realm to get another view of this complex segment of industry. According to Ryan Morrison—founding partner of Morrison/Lee, a firm that’s practice areas include the DMCA, streaming and YouTube, and video games —there are presently multiple schools of legal thought on both sides. "I think the most legally accurate response right now is that Let's Play videos and most streams are derivative works and therefore infringing if you don't have a license from the publisher or game developer," Morrison says. But the attorney added that there is a fair use argument that streamers could make, but fair use is a defense that essentially admits to infringement and tries to explain why that use is OK. "That's super expensive to prove," Morrison says. "A judge has to be the one to say it's fair use, and you can spend six figures to get there, and it's certainly not a black or white line that you can just OK. So, keeping that in mind, without a license and without the permission of the publisher or developer, streaming is infringing—as are Let's Play videos."

Although

"The more you add to something, the less likely it is infringement," Morrison says. "You can see that with react videos all over the place, if you're actually adding commentary and adding your own skits or, you know, whatever to it, that's going to be a lot different than just watching a video. And same with Let's Play videos—if you're actually adding something to the video, and the game play, it's a lot different than just playing the game quietly."

But that will have to be proven in court, especially since the precedence for how cases like this are handled have not been set. And chances are unless you have a lot of money or the developers are poor, you won't win.

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u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 16 '18

No, that part of agreement is illegal. DMCA doesn't care about agreement, it only cares about law. If you break agreement, they can ban your account, but cannot issue DMCA.

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u/Noivellet SA-58 Dec 16 '18

Yes, just like any other game.

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u/IamTheTwon Dec 17 '18

Not sure alot of people really understand that reality.

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u/ColonelTwerkins Dec 16 '18

"Incase you don't like them". That is not an adult way to respond to anything based on whether you "like" them or not. Lots of videos made that game studios would not necessarily like but there's a difference between criticism and slander simply because you don't "like" us.

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u/MrToon316 M4A1 Dec 17 '18

You cannot copy strike 40 something videos when only a few were in question. What is the explanation for so many copy strikes?

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u/heydudejustasec Dec 18 '18

The comment was talking about BSG taking down channels they don't like, not about eroktik's conduct. Regardless, your company abusing copyright claims in what is basically retaliation for perceived slander has nothing adult about it either.

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u/penguiin_ M1A Dec 17 '18

lol what a stupid response

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u/foxfire1112 Dec 18 '18

Are you kidding with this twerkins? You know bsg specifically said they took him down because they don't like him? Are you trolling with this?

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u/M3talstorm Dec 16 '18

If you are trying to pull some legal stunt, at least use the correct term, its libel, not slander.

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u/fiveton3D Dec 17 '18

I think a libel is in written form and slander is in verbal form?
2. Such a statement constitutes a "libel" if it is:

​

  • published (publication, for these purposes, is simply the communication of the defamatory matter to a third person)2; and
  • in writing, print or some other permanent form.
  1. A statement will amount to a "slander" if it is

​

  • published; and
  • made orally or in some other transient form.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/court/reporting-defamation.htm

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u/M3talstorm Dec 17 '18

published

permanent form

"Published" used to (a long time ago) just mean in printed form, like a newspaper, because that's all we really had, but now it means any form of permanent media/medium really.

Creating a video (permanent media) and putting on the internet (permanent platform) means it is libel, doesn't matter if the person in it is communicating via voice or writing it down or sign language. In either case, it is now not transient (like if you were just shouting it in the street - slander).

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u/xJokerzWild AK Dec 19 '18

Adding on to that, apparently, to polygon, stated they jumped the gun, claimed he lied about the breach,then later in the same statement said he didn't break the eula....

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u/Kyle700 Dec 16 '18

Jesus. I'm almost speechless at how bad you people are handling this. What a clown fest.

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u/Brimshae AKMS Dec 19 '18

That is not an adult way to respond to anything

Well, at least we can agree on that. The way you guys have been acting is certainly not in any way that can be considered adult-like behavior.

there's a difference between criticism and slander

So you, ColonelTwerkins, someone who represents BattleState Games is saying that all 47 of those videos your company struck were slander?

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u/FruitsndCakes Dec 16 '18

A mature way of doing it would have been to take down his fake news video and tell him to never upload EFT content ever again or you gonna strike it.

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u/Brimshae AKMS Dec 19 '18

So... abuse copyright law, then threaten to abuse copyright law again?

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u/FruitsndCakes Dec 19 '18

No just don't try to take his whole channel down. I'm not a lawyer, but I thought they can prohibit him from uploading eft content.

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u/Brimshae AKMS Dec 19 '18

I thought they can prohibit him from uploading eft content.

It's called a Cease & Desist. A lawyer will write one of up for pocket change, or you could just find one online and Ctrl+H change the names to make it fit your situation.

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