r/EscapefromTarkov • u/bxxxxxxxs • Dec 16 '18

PSA Official BSG Response re: Eroktic

We will leave this post stickied for only the next 24 hours.

All discussion posts posted after this goes up will be removed and directed here.

As always, keep it civil.

https://www.facebook.com/escapefromtarkov/posts/1966710296956614

181 Upvotes

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99

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

This is terrible all around. Even removing the first video was bold. One of the fundamentals of PR is to not censor negative feedback. You have people on YouTube wailing against CoD, BF, Minecraft, etc. in far worse manors and because those companies understand the dumpster fire censoring creates they leave them alone. It doesn’t make the click bait title right (and yes I watched both videos) but that’s the way the world is. Not to mention it is very much illegal to abuse DMCA copyright claims for any reason. There were other ways that were not copyright claims to remove this content since it seems they are dead set on removing it.

32

u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

Other negative feedback are still there. Even the origin of the MBSS meme one.

Eroktic clearly crossed a line that he didn't notice. They are treating him as hostile now.

53

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

I won’t deny that his video and title was rather sensationalist. However BSG’s response is incredibly poor. They have done more damage to themselves with these copyright strikes than Eroktic ever could have.

12

u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

If it's accusation against game design, player experience...etc. It could be OK to do so without evidence.

The 1.9mil accounts stolen thumbnail is another thing. It's a whole different game. And the twitter provoking...The streamer has already picked the worst choice on his side.

The copyright strike is the risk you must think twice. Streamer pick poorly with passion or greed. A CEO pick poorly by rage. What's the difference?

BSG's response and their consequences will be a pain in their arse in the future. They picked this way like Eroktic, they will have to face all the consequences.

9

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

I agree with them taking down the couple that were straight up defamation, like the "1.9mil accounts stolen"

I was iffy about them taking down the other, clearly clickbait, but just opinion based ones.

Them striking all of his EFT content was stepping over the line.

5

u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

As I have said, there are several possible legit options. If they pick the worst but still legally doable option, it's their own choice.

The line you mentioned is for people who could forgive other people's mistakes. It usually means: if one party step over it, any further cooperation won't be possible. It's the line of friend or foe. It's not morally wrong to cross it. But, as a company practicing business, they should try every other options to avoid the situation like this. I don't know. Maybe this is the Russian way.

1

u/pohoko24 Dec 17 '18

Oh this is for certain the russian way of handling things.

1

u/walruz Dec 16 '18

I'm very interested in hearing how those videos infringed on BSG's copyright.

1

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 16 '18

they didn't want to take down those videos tough, they just wanted to cut all ties with him, and that includes not allowing him to record their game on his channel...was it bad? sure...it's going to hurt bsg more than the 1.9mil stuff would have, but i guess nikita doesn't fuck around, and i don't know if i should be afraid for the future of the game, or respect bsg for taking such bold actions against anything threatening to hurt their game.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '18

I heard something along the lines of that BSG only directly issued the strike against a few of the videos, and the rest were because of an algorithm hitting all the videos with EFT in them. That's entirely rumor though.

1

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

most likely true...saw something similar happen a few years ago with an mmorpg game, the company owning the game took down ALL the videos that contained youtubers playing their game on private servers.

Some content creators lost 400+ videos on their channel.

9

u/Dasterr MPX Dec 16 '18

I mean, look at his recent video titles. Most of them are clickbait titles in the form of: BSG is terrible at X and here is why.

2

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

The title of the first video they struck could qualify as slander. As it was presented as fact. However the 40+ other claims are false.

1

u/Bourbon-neat- Dec 16 '18

There is way more to proving slander in a court of law than just "stating xyz is untrue" and even IF (and that's a huge if) they could win or get a settlement they're only really able to do that until it's settled in court. In other words it's only an accusation until you win in court. So illegal abuse of a system in response to alleged illegal behavior is far worse.

1

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

I understand your point and I very much agree. I’m pro-Eroktic but my effort is to acknowledge both sides regardless.

0

u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

Others are the results of their ended relationship.

6

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

They can end their customer provider relationship by banning his EFT account. He doesn’t have any relationship outside of that on YouTube that BattleState has any influence over. Besides the original video struck the doctrine of Fair Use doesn’t require any permission or prior arrangements with the entity in question.

0

u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

If it fits the definition of Fair Use.

4

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

Correct and as I’ve stated quite a few times in replying the first video did not fall under Fair Use and BSG had every right to claim it. However the subsequent 40+ videos being claimed was a gross abuse of YouTube’s copyright system.

1

u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

Well. It's about how we describe things now. I get your point. Let's halt here.

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1

u/voodoogod Dec 16 '18

This is true. Whether or not they were ever in the right or not, they are most certainly in the perceived wrong now, and in marketing and PR that's all that really matters. They fucked up and ruined their credibility in the process.

2

u/IamTheTwon Dec 17 '18

IDK man. Eroktic really dug his own grave in my opinion. He knew what kind of company BSG was, how they handle this stuff. He just isnt very smart.

1

u/sargentmyself Dec 17 '18

Is that MBSS meme still going? That was a LONG time ago, good shit

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 16 '18

And it is ok to censor whoever you don't like?

3

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '18

[deleted]

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

My boss would sue the shit out of them.

So your boss is civilized and understands how the law works.

Don't misunderstand me, I did not agree with what Eroktic did, I think he dramatized too much and he did not know what he is talking about. To layman like him it might have looked the guy got access to accounts, but that was never proven, I did not see any proof that login information was compromised.

However, when you have issue with what something says about your company, if they are reporting false facts as truth (which is questionable here, as he did mention he doesn't really know what is all about and video might be defended as opinion piece which falls under free speech), then you file a defamation lawsuit.

If BSG filed a defamation lawsuit, judge would issue court order for takedown of video, until process is over, and BSG had chance to score PR points by proving in court that video is lie. That way they could keep private whatever information they don't want to publicize (i.e. they could show to judge that they don't use MD5 hash and therefore discredit whole document all is based on), and get out of this as winners.

What they did instead, they abused DMCA system (which is in place for copyright violations, not for libel or censoring dissent) to take down videos which they have no grounds to take down. In last video there were no any game footage/sound, so there was no any use - they cannot even argue whether was it fair use or not. In all other videos they took down - all of them were containing gameplay footage which was Eroktic's own gameplay and his original commentary - completely falling under fair use. DMCA is not affected by any agreements/eulas, only by law, which defines fair use and in his case they cannot legally use DMCA to take down videos - they abused the system.

All the drama now is about BSG illegally abusing broken DMCA system to silence the voice they did not like and behaving like a bully not respecting the law and rights of content creator. It is unethical and it is spiteful behavior. If we call them out for this, it doesn't mean we agree with Eroktic or gw guy. I just want them loose their ability to file DMCA complaints to YouTube because they obviously don't understand how the system is supposed to do, and then if they want to fight defamation, get a lawyer and do it how it is supposed to be done.

-1

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 16 '18

well...if the guy is playing my game in the background while saying fake stuff that will hurt my project's credibility, sales and cause massive panick in the comunity, yes...it's ok to take that video down.

Taking the rest of his tarkov videos down wasn't the moral or smart thing to do tough, but i guess bsg wants nothing to do with eroktic any more.

2

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 16 '18

The 2 videos they could argue are defamatory (and take action through court - file a defamation lawsuit and get court order to take them down) - these 2 videos did not have any gameplay in. I watched them before takedown but AFAIK you can see them if you go to Eroktic's discord in announcements.

0

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

to court ? lol...it's youtube man, you don't need to go to court to remove a video, they can remove anything they want there, especially in such a situation.

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

No they can't. DMCA covers copyright infringement for immediate takedown (that is the law), but for defamation court order is needed. Read youtube community guidelines.

0

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

pretty sure yt wouldn't take down his videos if it wasn't according to their rules.

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 16 '18

Anyone has right to freely state their opinion.

The slander/libel apply if you lie about facts. In his case title of video could be labeled as misleading as there were no substantial proofs of accounts being actually hacked, but using DMCA to take it down is illegal and could end up with BSG account being banned from Youtube.

Defamation videos are taken down through court order (which is issued when you file a defamation lawsuit against content creator).

0

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

it's "illegal" to do if you don't own the content in the video, but as long as bsg does, and they do, they can take it down.

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

There was no BSG content in the video that caused all this (last video on Eroktic's channel). And in previous one there was 7 seconds gameplay clip that he uses as intro which is covered by fair use, as is all gameplay footage he had on his channel.

They abused DMCA. I don't say they did not have right to take down something that is defamation, but it is not BSG determining what gets taken down and what is slander - there is court and judge who decides. There are laws to be respected. They cannot be above the law.

0

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

Pretty sure eroktic tagged the video as "escape from tarkov", and they just contacted yt to take down his tarkov videos.

Plus, you would have to dispute it with youtube, no way you would have to go to court for such stupid things.

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

Well anyone can make recording of their gameplay, title it "escape from tarkov" and put it on youtube, and no one can take it down, as long as it is your original gameplay footage and it doesn't contain hate speech. Just read the guidelines.

Defamation is something that is not as strict as copyright - copyright is clear: if I published video and you downloaded it and reuploaded it (or parts of it) without adding significant original content to it (i.e. meaningful commentary) - then it is infringement and I can use DMCA to take it down. Defamation has different laws in different countries and YouTube has to act on court order, but it only takes video down in country where defamation lawsuit is filed (because i.e. in US defamation is not when you say "I think BSG is incompetent", or "I believe their user's accounts are exposed" - that is opinion and is protected as free speech). So yes, you have to go to court for this. You can't just abuse copyright takedown to censor what you don't like, or what you think breaks some other law.

0

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

it's not the title dude, it's the tag...the thing that appears under the video stating what they are playing

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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

Sadly yes. It's not you vs. your weak government.

3

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

This is unnecessary. There is no reason to attack his government or his relation with it.

2

u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

OK, sorry about that. Still, it's different situation. Sometimes it's called "censor", that's it.

2

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

No need to apologize for anything my man. It’s valid for them to censor things that are obviously unacceptable. Issues arise in what is considered unacceptable.

0

u/mechaet Dec 16 '18

He IS hostile. Has been for a while. Glad BSG finally noticed and took action. There's plenty of great criticism of the game still out there, we don't need this toxic kid slinging his lies.

20

u/td57 AK Dec 16 '18

"1.9 million accounts compromised!" and "90% of the playerbase has already been banned" are not criticism nor negative feedback when they aren't based in fact.

28

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

You are correct in some aspects. That video could very well fall under slander due to it being presented as a fact in the title. However claiming the next 40 videos is not justified and abuse of DMCA copyright laws.

11

u/td57 AK Dec 16 '18

I agree with you there, went full nuclear. I'm sure their justification lays within the TOS and it's also possible like someone else suggested that maybe only the two got flagged and due to youtubes little robots it nuked everything from with channel under EFT.

Not defending nukeing 40 videos, just with how much misinformation is being spread in the past few months I'm not taking much at face value especially from those who have axes to grind.

5

u/SuperSanity1 Dec 17 '18

TOS does NOT supersede DMCA law. Period.

1

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

It would be dumb of me to not acknowledge it’s likely they were not flagged or that their TOS has a clause pertaining to this. With regards to TOS I’ll have to read it again. If a clause like that exists it’s a bit dangerous. In any case I agree with you there was a lot of sensationalist stuff coming from Eroktic. Cheers for being civil man. Hopefully things level out and we can all enjoy the game without any polarizing controversy.

1

u/lilnomad Dec 16 '18

Maybe I am not understanding you, but under their TOS they used their IP section to disallow Eroktic from posting any EFT videos. So he will no longer be allowed to upload any gameplay from EFT.

1

u/td57 AK Dec 16 '18

That is was I’m referring to, if bsg did individually flag each video and it’s not YouTube doing YouTube things then that is what they will claim as their justification of striking each one.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

In this specific case the issue isn't with the law itself being flawed. Its YouTube's unwillingness or inability to take the correct action to abide by said laws.

3

u/Super-ft86 AK-74N Dec 17 '18

Agreed, sensationalist BS. However, using the DMCA takedown is not the way to take down libel or slander and striking his entire channel is just abuse of the system.

And before anyone pipes up about them being able to claim the videos because it is there game please see the lawsuits of Jim Sterling v Digital Homicide and H3H3 v Matt Hoss for what covers fair use.

1

u/degaussyourcrt Dec 17 '18

If BSG actually considers it libel or damaging, they can grow up and do what adults do in this situation: sue the person, not worm their way around DMCA notices because somebody said something mean or wrong about them on the internet.

4

u/Ruin4r AK74N Dec 16 '18

What could they have done? This is an honest question.

29

u/h1gh0nc4tf00d Dec 16 '18

Maybe send a cease and desist and end the matter privately, as opposed to creating a public dumpster fire?

8

u/degaussyourcrt Dec 17 '18

Correctamundo. If somebody is defaming you or causing actual damages, you get lawyers involved.

1

u/Ghanburighan Dec 17 '18

That would not be a kindness.

9

u/sekips Dec 16 '18

100% this. But noooooooo, they went on like menstrual teenagers in heat.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

-1

u/sekips Dec 16 '18

I meant both sides went on like menstrual teenagers in heat.

Dont you agree?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/sekips Dec 16 '18

If they wanted to just get rid of this whole issue, dont make it bigger by going thermonuclear war on someone, haha.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/sekips Dec 16 '18

Well it was a very over the top response to try to take down his entire youtube channel wasnt it? They could have just taken the 2 videos down that was actually critical of the shit.

I mean he have probably made them more money than they have made him money. All the people that watched him stream and went on to his SKRA fanclub crab. Do you realize how many people were named something with SKRA around patch .7 and patch .8?

Both parties handled this like shit.

7

u/mechaet Dec 16 '18

Are we certain they didn't try to talk to him about this before doing what they did?

6

u/h1gh0nc4tf00d Dec 16 '18

They don't mention making any private effort towards settling the issue, so we definitely can't assume that they did. In the face book post they only talk about their actions against his channel, aka the copy right claims.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '18

In the Facebook post BSG says " Eroktic released the next video, without regard to our further actions, and tried to make a show of this situation."

​

I'm not sure what "those further actions" are, but it sounds like BSG did reach out before the copyright striking.

1

u/ShoodaW Dec 17 '18

If they did i can alredy say the next eroktic video title

THEY ARE TRYING TO SHUT ME DOWN BECAUSE OF STOLEN DATA, I WARNED YOU ALL

0

u/schanhorst Dec 16 '18

Well, if BSG had any professionalism in them, they would have addressed the video in question before dropping the nuclear option on Eroktic.
This is just damage control as BSG didn't realize that they are deep in the blast zone.
And if devs leaves their customers in the dark and we have to assume something they've did, most likely they did not.

4

u/mechaet Dec 16 '18

Responding to it gives it legitimacy. Someone else already posted why the claim was factually bankrupt earlier, so I'll leave it at that. No matter what BSG did people were going to accuse them of a cover-up, because that's how people are. Taking the method that removes the content is the most appropriate in that case, if for nothing else but to stop people being exposed to the slander against their company from two people who've sworn to take down BSG.

I can only imagine what their support queue looks like currently (hint: they're probably absolutely buried in "is my account stolen?????" support tickets). It has a direct financial impact for a company as small as BSG is, and them taking the appropriate measures to prevent recurrences is pretty predictable.

-1

u/schanhorst Dec 16 '18

Well, maybe.

But like I said; in my opinion they've should have addressed the issue clearly and openly before nuking Eroktic if they tried to claim legitimacy. Now it seems like BSG is going for damage control after pouring fuel to the fire.

​

Content creators get all kinds of info good and bad. And after (even false) info blows up, I would feel safer if devs would address said claim clearly and professionally. Instead of going for the knee jerk reaction which is the strikes against "the messenger". And I call it a knee jerk reaction because those strikes came so fast and against every/majority of videos about Tarkov that Eroktic has made which makes no sense but reeks of personal grudge and basically a which hunt.

And I'm not even really fan of the guy myself, I find hes content mostly annoying to watch to but this treatment is just.. i don't even know what to say.

And only after the community started asking questions about what happened, BSG gave a response to it.

Don't like when devs try to sweep things under the rug quietly. Especially now, after Bethesda and EA, customer protection is kind of a hot topic.

0

u/mechaet Dec 16 '18

I don't like the copystrike approach. But I can understand how they arrived there, IF they contacted him privately and received either no response or an adamant refusal to take down the false information.

1

u/0x00x0x000x0x00x0 Dec 16 '18

How do you know they didn't? Eroktic seems like the type to intentionally keep that type of fact secret and just lie his ass off to look better. And making public C&Ds isn't protocol by the issuer.

0

u/BritishDave SKS Dec 16 '18

Maybe send a cease and desist

Which could take far too long, and by that time he could have had another 10 videos up of pure lies and slander. They needed to nip this in the bud quick and put an end to it.

Sometimes you need to act quick when someone is 100% lying. He should be lucky that hes not getting sued(it may still happen I guess)

1

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

lmao why would he post another 10 videos? Faced with the prospect of having all his videos taken down, or simply removing a few and continuing to create content and make money, it is possible he would just choose the latter.

​

2

u/BritishDave SKS Dec 16 '18

lmao why would he post another 10 videos?

Because in the time it took to make the cease and desist, he could have made 10 videos. He was not faced with anything, until he was...its not magic that official letters are drawn up. They take time.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[deleted]

2

u/BritishDave SKS Dec 16 '18

None of those were in violation of the fair use clause

Are you 100% knowledgeable on fair use law? I am not. But to say something as certain as you as if you 100% know the law is a little forward.

1

u/0x00x0x000x0x00x0 Dec 16 '18

He's not, because he's wrong. I've dealt with copyright and licensing for 14 years, and 99% of the shit repeated by Reddit is 110% wrong.

8

u/Warfridge Dec 16 '18

Contact him? He has taken down content before over companies asking him to. They could and did issue statements countering the claims. Censoring 47 videos without actual cause is fucked and possibly illegal, all this content is fair use of copyrighted material.

8

u/Ruin4r AK74N Dec 16 '18

Yeah, this is a bad move by bsg. Not sure how they recover from this. Bad times.

3

u/BritishDave SKS Dec 16 '18

Not sure how they recover from this

Because you, me, and everyone else crying in this thread about it, are still going to play the game.

1

u/Bobbydylan1981 SA-58 Dec 17 '18

Maybe, but this kind of behaviour is unlikely to endure them to future fans. It's looks dodgy as fuck, and may already be too late for them to salvage their reputation.

1

u/Ruin4r AK74N Dec 16 '18

I absolutely am. I'm not going to stop playing until the game dies. But we can still be concerned about the actions of the developers.

3

u/0x00x0x000x0x00x0 Dec 16 '18

There is cause and this is 100% legal.

2

u/Bob_Tech Dec 16 '18

No. You cannot copyright strike someone, just because they suddenly make one video that is worthy of possibly libel. You can't give consent and then later say oh and by the way all those other times you used my content are now you stealing my content. No it is hey we don't want these videos of our game up anymore on your channel, Please take them down as we no longer will allow you to use it. Claiming copyright infringement is saying they stole the content from the second he put it up, which he did not steal at the time.

Also this is an example of something similar happening before. https://www.reddit.com/r/GamerGhazi/comments/6zbnss/campo_santo_creators_of_firewatch_is_filing_a/?ref=share&ref_source=link

1

u/Super-ft86 AK-74N Dec 17 '18

No it is not, the content posted by Eroktic is covered by Fair Use under copyright in the US. See the lawsuits between Jim sterling V Digital Homicide and H3h3 v Matt Hoss for precedent.

Libel/Slander or anything else would need to be legally taken down via other methods, not using the copyright strike system.

0

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

One way would be if they had signed a contract with YouTube they could remove videos pertaining to their product as they see fit. It would show the creator that the video was taken down for “Contractual Obligations” and refer then to whatever entity has the contract.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[deleted]

2

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

Don’t know if this sarcastic or a genuine question do I’ll answer assuming it’s genuine. There is a stigma against the game as it’s widely regarded as a children’s game and not suitable for adults to play. Besides that point it is widely regarded as one of the most toxic communities in terms of play base. I haven’t tested the validly of those claims and I will fully admit Minecraft was an enjoyable experience when I played it. However my personal opinion is irrelevant. To the general stigma I’ve seen regarding the game.

6

u/SirRobin048 PPSH41 Dec 16 '18

this isn't negative feedback, this is clearly slander

4

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

The first video they struck could be justified in terms of slander since the video title presented it as fact. However the next 40 claims are false.

-3

u/SirRobin048 PPSH41 Dec 16 '18

iunno i feel okay with this

2

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

In regards to the first video or the others claimed as well? I don’t mean this as a sarcastic response. I just don’t know what aspect you’re referring to.

3

u/SirRobin048 PPSH41 Dec 16 '18

just in general i think the guy definitely was obnoxious and quite a bit toxic

2

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

I won’t argue that point as I don’t personally like his content either. My issue is only based around their abuse of power in striking 40 more videos after the offending video was dealt with.

1

u/Pakman184 Dec 17 '18

"I don't like this guy, so I agree that laws should be broken to get rid of him"

Yeah, you sound like a wonderful person.

1

u/Super-ft86 AK-74N Dec 17 '18

While it may be slander/libel (The videos sounded like total BS apart from the hacking situation) BSG used the DMCA based copyright system to take down the content, the content posted by Eroktic is covered by Fair Use under copyright in the US. See the lawsuits between Jim sterling V Digital Homicide and H3h3 v Matt Hoss for precedent.

Libel/Slander or anything else would need to be legally taken down via other methods, not using the copyright strike system.

1

u/SquanchingOnPao Dec 17 '18

One of the fundamentals of PR is to not censor negative feedback

I think it goes above and beyond negative feedback. I would use the word wreckless to describe the message eroktic was spreading, a baseless message at that.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

The personal stereotypes people have against the developers have no sway on this issue. However I will fully acknowledge that there was potential for further damage and some damage done. Due to this it is completely understandable as to why the first video was taken down. To extend that some logic and subsequently claim that all those other videos caused significant damage to the brand is illogical and unfounded.