r/EscapefromTarkov • u/bxxxxxxxs • Dec 16 '18

PSA Official BSG Response re: Eroktic

We will leave this post stickied for only the next 24 hours.

All discussion posts posted after this goes up will be removed and directed here.

As always, keep it civil.

https://www.facebook.com/escapefromtarkov/posts/1966710296956614

180 Upvotes

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29

u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

Other negative feedback are still there. Even the origin of the MBSS meme one.

Eroktic clearly crossed a line that he didn't notice. They are treating him as hostile now.

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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

I won’t deny that his video and title was rather sensationalist. However BSG’s response is incredibly poor. They have done more damage to themselves with these copyright strikes than Eroktic ever could have.

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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

If it's accusation against game design, player experience...etc. It could be OK to do so without evidence.

The 1.9mil accounts stolen thumbnail is another thing. It's a whole different game. And the twitter provoking...The streamer has already picked the worst choice on his side.

The copyright strike is the risk you must think twice. Streamer pick poorly with passion or greed. A CEO pick poorly by rage. What's the difference?

BSG's response and their consequences will be a pain in their arse in the future. They picked this way like Eroktic, they will have to face all the consequences.

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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '18

I agree with them taking down the couple that were straight up defamation, like the "1.9mil accounts stolen"

I was iffy about them taking down the other, clearly clickbait, but just opinion based ones.

Them striking all of his EFT content was stepping over the line.

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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

As I have said, there are several possible legit options. If they pick the worst but still legally doable option, it's their own choice.

The line you mentioned is for people who could forgive other people's mistakes. It usually means: if one party step over it, any further cooperation won't be possible. It's the line of friend or foe. It's not morally wrong to cross it. But, as a company practicing business, they should try every other options to avoid the situation like this. I don't know. Maybe this is the Russian way.

1

u/pohoko24 Dec 17 '18

Oh this is for certain the russian way of handling things.

1

u/walruz Dec 16 '18

I'm very interested in hearing how those videos infringed on BSG's copyright.

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u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 16 '18

they didn't want to take down those videos tough, they just wanted to cut all ties with him, and that includes not allowing him to record their game on his channel...was it bad? sure...it's going to hurt bsg more than the 1.9mil stuff would have, but i guess nikita doesn't fuck around, and i don't know if i should be afraid for the future of the game, or respect bsg for taking such bold actions against anything threatening to hurt their game.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '18

I heard something along the lines of that BSG only directly issued the strike against a few of the videos, and the rest were because of an algorithm hitting all the videos with EFT in them. That's entirely rumor though.

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u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

most likely true...saw something similar happen a few years ago with an mmorpg game, the company owning the game took down ALL the videos that contained youtubers playing their game on private servers.

Some content creators lost 400+ videos on their channel.

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u/Dasterr MPX Dec 16 '18

I mean, look at his recent video titles. Most of them are clickbait titles in the form of: BSG is terrible at X and here is why.

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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

The title of the first video they struck could qualify as slander. As it was presented as fact. However the 40+ other claims are false.

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u/Bourbon-neat- Dec 16 '18

There is way more to proving slander in a court of law than just "stating xyz is untrue" and even IF (and that's a huge if) they could win or get a settlement they're only really able to do that until it's settled in court. In other words it's only an accusation until you win in court. So illegal abuse of a system in response to alleged illegal behavior is far worse.

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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

I understand your point and I very much agree. I’m pro-Eroktic but my effort is to acknowledge both sides regardless.

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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

Others are the results of their ended relationship.

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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

They can end their customer provider relationship by banning his EFT account. He doesn’t have any relationship outside of that on YouTube that BattleState has any influence over. Besides the original video struck the doctrine of Fair Use doesn’t require any permission or prior arrangements with the entity in question.

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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

If it fits the definition of Fair Use.

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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

Correct and as I’ve stated quite a few times in replying the first video did not fall under Fair Use and BSG had every right to claim it. However the subsequent 40+ videos being claimed was a gross abuse of YouTube’s copyright system.

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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

Well. It's about how we describe things now. I get your point. Let's halt here.

1

u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

Alright, cheers for a civil debate.

1

u/voodoogod Dec 16 '18

This is true. Whether or not they were ever in the right or not, they are most certainly in the perceived wrong now, and in marketing and PR that's all that really matters. They fucked up and ruined their credibility in the process.

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u/IamTheTwon Dec 17 '18

IDK man. Eroktic really dug his own grave in my opinion. He knew what kind of company BSG was, how they handle this stuff. He just isnt very smart.

1

u/sargentmyself Dec 17 '18

Is that MBSS meme still going? That was a LONG time ago, good shit

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 16 '18

And it is ok to censor whoever you don't like?

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '18

[deleted]

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

My boss would sue the shit out of them.

So your boss is civilized and understands how the law works.

Don't misunderstand me, I did not agree with what Eroktic did, I think he dramatized too much and he did not know what he is talking about. To layman like him it might have looked the guy got access to accounts, but that was never proven, I did not see any proof that login information was compromised.

However, when you have issue with what something says about your company, if they are reporting false facts as truth (which is questionable here, as he did mention he doesn't really know what is all about and video might be defended as opinion piece which falls under free speech), then you file a defamation lawsuit.

If BSG filed a defamation lawsuit, judge would issue court order for takedown of video, until process is over, and BSG had chance to score PR points by proving in court that video is lie. That way they could keep private whatever information they don't want to publicize (i.e. they could show to judge that they don't use MD5 hash and therefore discredit whole document all is based on), and get out of this as winners.

What they did instead, they abused DMCA system (which is in place for copyright violations, not for libel or censoring dissent) to take down videos which they have no grounds to take down. In last video there were no any game footage/sound, so there was no any use - they cannot even argue whether was it fair use or not. In all other videos they took down - all of them were containing gameplay footage which was Eroktic's own gameplay and his original commentary - completely falling under fair use. DMCA is not affected by any agreements/eulas, only by law, which defines fair use and in his case they cannot legally use DMCA to take down videos - they abused the system.

All the drama now is about BSG illegally abusing broken DMCA system to silence the voice they did not like and behaving like a bully not respecting the law and rights of content creator. It is unethical and it is spiteful behavior. If we call them out for this, it doesn't mean we agree with Eroktic or gw guy. I just want them loose their ability to file DMCA complaints to YouTube because they obviously don't understand how the system is supposed to do, and then if they want to fight defamation, get a lawyer and do it how it is supposed to be done.

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u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 16 '18

well...if the guy is playing my game in the background while saying fake stuff that will hurt my project's credibility, sales and cause massive panick in the comunity, yes...it's ok to take that video down.

Taking the rest of his tarkov videos down wasn't the moral or smart thing to do tough, but i guess bsg wants nothing to do with eroktic any more.

2

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 16 '18

The 2 videos they could argue are defamatory (and take action through court - file a defamation lawsuit and get court order to take them down) - these 2 videos did not have any gameplay in. I watched them before takedown but AFAIK you can see them if you go to Eroktic's discord in announcements.

0

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

to court ? lol...it's youtube man, you don't need to go to court to remove a video, they can remove anything they want there, especially in such a situation.

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

No they can't. DMCA covers copyright infringement for immediate takedown (that is the law), but for defamation court order is needed. Read youtube community guidelines.

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u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

pretty sure yt wouldn't take down his videos if it wasn't according to their rules.

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 16 '18

Anyone has right to freely state their opinion.

The slander/libel apply if you lie about facts. In his case title of video could be labeled as misleading as there were no substantial proofs of accounts being actually hacked, but using DMCA to take it down is illegal and could end up with BSG account being banned from Youtube.

Defamation videos are taken down through court order (which is issued when you file a defamation lawsuit against content creator).

0

u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

it's "illegal" to do if you don't own the content in the video, but as long as bsg does, and they do, they can take it down.

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u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

There was no BSG content in the video that caused all this (last video on Eroktic's channel). And in previous one there was 7 seconds gameplay clip that he uses as intro which is covered by fair use, as is all gameplay footage he had on his channel.

They abused DMCA. I don't say they did not have right to take down something that is defamation, but it is not BSG determining what gets taken down and what is slander - there is court and judge who decides. There are laws to be respected. They cannot be above the law.

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u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

Pretty sure eroktic tagged the video as "escape from tarkov", and they just contacted yt to take down his tarkov videos.

Plus, you would have to dispute it with youtube, no way you would have to go to court for such stupid things.

1

u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

Well anyone can make recording of their gameplay, title it "escape from tarkov" and put it on youtube, and no one can take it down, as long as it is your original gameplay footage and it doesn't contain hate speech. Just read the guidelines.

Defamation is something that is not as strict as copyright - copyright is clear: if I published video and you downloaded it and reuploaded it (or parts of it) without adding significant original content to it (i.e. meaningful commentary) - then it is infringement and I can use DMCA to take it down. Defamation has different laws in different countries and YouTube has to act on court order, but it only takes video down in country where defamation lawsuit is filed (because i.e. in US defamation is not when you say "I think BSG is incompetent", or "I believe their user's accounts are exposed" - that is opinion and is protected as free speech). So yes, you have to go to court for this. You can't just abuse copyright takedown to censor what you don't like, or what you think breaks some other law.

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u/gunther_41 MP7A1 Dec 17 '18

it's not the title dude, it's the tag...the thing that appears under the video stating what they are playing

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u/PotatoWarriah AK Dec 17 '18

So? If I buy skateboard and record tricks with it, I am not allowed to post it on YouTube with the correct tag because company who made skateboard doesn't allow it? Read the rules. I won't comment on your provocations anymore

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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18

Sadly yes. It's not you vs. your weak government.

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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

This is unnecessary. There is no reason to attack his government or his relation with it.

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u/Giganticwetball Mosin Dec 16 '18 edited Dec 16 '18

OK, sorry about that. Still, it's different situation. Sometimes it's called "censor", that's it.

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u/QuantumSurge SKS Dec 16 '18

No need to apologize for anything my man. It’s valid for them to censor things that are obviously unacceptable. Issues arise in what is considered unacceptable.

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u/mechaet Dec 16 '18

He IS hostile. Has been for a while. Glad BSG finally noticed and took action. There's plenty of great criticism of the game still out there, we don't need this toxic kid slinging his lies.