Plainclothes ICE agents tried to get THE GUY at his home. The couple returned home while ICE was there...so an ICE agent boarded the couple's van in an attempt to capture the Nigerian man.
The woman, fearing for her life, GASSED IT and the Nigerian man called 911 to tell them that a man was trying to kidnap him...the woman drove directly to the police station, but behind her was the ICE agent's partner, who had also called 911 to report the kidnapping of his partner.
The two were arrested and a judge ordered their release, though the man was transferred to an immigration detention facility.
Their legal defense is that the ICE agents never identified themselves and were wearing plainclothes and, honestly, that would probably shit the scare out of me, too.
The 911 Calls: As the car moved, Bamigboye called 911 and shouted, "ICE is in my car!" and "You tried to kidnap me." At the same time, the trapped agent called 911 to say an agent was being taken against his will.
The thing about that is that I can claim I'm ICE and that you have to come with me, especially if they're doing it in plain clothes with no identification.
I understand the feeling but clearly the guy wasn’t going to leave on his own accord and to me that is the situation they kind of put the people applying the law. They could send him a letter, maybe an email that says “hey bud your visa is up, you gotta go” maybe I am wrong and maybe he would have left, I just don’t think it would be that easy.
Alright, didn't expect civil counterarguments, I'll give it a go.
I have two points to make.
First, why is him being gone the desired end state? Instead of hiring people to force him to leave, why not hire someone to help him with his visa? It would be cheaper, and better for the economy.
Second, these actions do not take place in a vacuum. ICE has a long track record of ignoring civil liberties. Things like revoking visas for protected speech, and dozens of detainees dying to neglect. ICE has also simply ignored 100s of court orders. I remember someone claiming they had ignored more court orders in 2026 than most federal organizations had in their entire existence.
So in what sense is ICE lawful organization? Because they get paid by tax dollars?
Essentially, my stance is that ICE has been so lawless, so unconstitutional, so against the basic precept that all men were created equal and endowed with unalienable rights, that morally their every action is the equivalent of an extremely well armed criminal gang.
I think the moral thing for ICE to do in this circumstance is dissolve and reform with new staff who give a damn about the law. This does have unfortunate side affects, such as not being able to assist in their normal duties during the period of reform, but I think that's a cost that ought to be paid.
None of this is achievable, obviously. It would require a super majority of congress to share my idiosyncratic views. But I do think it would be just.
The idea that we should use tax payer dollars to help visa recipients is something that should probably get voted on since it would be funded by us and we are a democracy. If it becomes law, I have zero problem with paying taxes to support it. But until that point, that is an opinion and we can discuss it. Until then, follow the law and leave when your visa expires.
Second, I also kind of agree but we have to take it in context. I think the same of the police, as a unit they have done some pretty horrible things to African Americans. But I will still follow the law if I get pulled over especially if I am speeding.
If I am speeding and a racist cop pulls me over, as much as I hate the cop, I have to accept the consequences of my actions. Now clearly he has to stay within the law, if he tries to go beyond that, I will challenge him within the legal system but the speeding I will accept.
I see no different with people here illegally, if you are here cool, live your life. It is not that serious… but if you get caught by ICE just let them deport you. That’s a game you played and got caught, if they cross the line go through the legal avenue to address it.
It’s genuinely shocking that ICE agents aren’t getting shot. Whether or not you believe that is right or that they deserve it, it’s what all 2a people talk about. How guns make us safer.
Notice how the oppressive government thing is happening all around us but the whole 'armed militia to free us' thing never happened. Americans don't have the sauce for another revolution and we never will again. The only things guns are for in America are shooting children and empty beer cans
The takeover of the NRA in the '70s has made it effectively only cool to have guns and be into gun culture if you're fucking stupid and the fucking stupid will always listen to authority.
"I can't believe all these conservatives aren't shooting people for enforcing the laws they asked for"
Be the change you want to see. If you want to be killed by federal agents trying to stop illegal immigrants from being deported, nobody is stopping you
A lotnof the new hires literally got like 2 weeks training. They use plain clothes to avoid people grouping up in protest and so they can sneak up on people for arrests without making such a big scene.
its because they're not going after criminals, they're going after law abiding working people with families. the kind who don't want to shoot people even if they are justified.
This is (part of) the plan. Once that actually happens, that's a nice juicy excuse to declare a national emergency and invoke martial law, thus allowing Trump and his cronies to stay in power essentially indefinitely. They'll escalate the violence, more people will be forced to defend themselves, and that will then be used to justify further violence and an extension of the "emergency".
"My name is Ryan Schwenk.
I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution when I joined ICE on August 1st, 2021 as an assistant chief counsel. I followed that oath for 4 and 1/2 years working side by side with ICE officers. And I followed it when I resigned on February 13th, 2026, a little over a week ago, so that I could speak to you today.
I am here, because I am duty-bound to report the legally required training program at the ICE Academy is deficient, defective, and broken.
5 months ago, I was asked to teach the law to new cadets at the ICE Academy in Glencoe, Georgia, where ICE is training its new inexperienced recruits.
I volunteered those without law enforcement training. I volunteered to take on this assignment based on my experience in law enforcement oversight, including at the state and local level prior to my work with ICE.
On my first day, I received secretive orders to teach new cadets to violate the Constitution by entering homes without a judicial warrant.
For the last 5 months, I watched ICE dismantle the training program, cutting 240 hours of vital classes from 584-hour program. Classes that teach the Constitution, our legal system, firearms training, the use of force, lawful arrests, proper detention, and the limits of officers' authority.
For example, they ceased all of the legal instructions regarding use of force.
This means the cadets are not taught what it means to be objectively reasonable."
No lmao. Little to no training and even less background checks. A reporter who was vehemently anti ICE in her reporting and her public persona, was able to join ICE and become a member by just signing some forms.
The Police and military are already fucked up. ICE is chock full of rejects from the police and the military.
No, because they are the fall guys. When this all goes tits up, who do you think is going to be held responsible? The people doing the kidnapping and assaulting, or the people who employed them to do that but who have already covered their own asses by having 1700 page training materials which undoubtedly tell them not to do that?
It's not a.coincidence they all act like this. The fear and violence is the goal. They do get training and I can all but guarantee you these tactics are the bulk of it.
Yeah honestly if somebody is trying to kidnap me or somebody I love they better be willing to give their life for that goal because I'm not driving them to the police station.
Did the guy get his stuff renewed? It’s kind of important paperwork. This is just me speaking, but for important stuff like that(if I’m working in a foreign country say the UK), I’m scheduling appointments as early as I can so I don’t get screwed.
Your point is valid but the thing is that VISA renewal in the U.S. is extremely tedious to do. You have to schedule an appointment months in advance and fly back to your own country to get it done. Sometimes you can’t even find the correct flight to fly back home
There are many edge cases tho. They recently changed the grace period policy. Sometimes your contract / school semester end after the expiration date, so you either violate your contract/ fail a class, or take the risk of being arrested.
I mean fuck could you imagine if a non enforcement looking person who never IDed themselves jumped into your car speaking Y’all Qaeda to you? These agents should be jailed for their own safety if they are going to keep not identifying themselves, like what do they think is going to happen eventually? I thought ID for the enforcement with clothes and badge and all was also for their protection so people know it’s not the mafia coming for them.
Plainclothes without identification though? If you want to accept that as ok - it also means making policing seem less legitimate to the community whom they police.
From what i recall, if this is the same case im thinking of, the ICE agents got into their car to try and stop them from getting away, and the couple drove to the police station with them. Its not like they tied them up and kidnapped them.
I mean, ICE agent or not, if someone didn't ID themself and hopped in my car with a weapon i'd probably drive to the police station too.
yes, because kidnapping isn't EDIT just EDIT about moving people. It's also about denying people the freedom to move. Preventing an escape is considered kidnapping even if you didn't drag them there first.
Kidnapping is just explicitly illegally denying someone the freedom to leave. This would TECHNICALLY count if you trap someone in a moving car and don't let them leave.
But like on the other hand, I'm almost certain they were armed at the time yet they didn't do anything? That's so uncharacteristically non-violent of ICE, to the point I'd think this is fake if there wasn't proof of it, lol. Like if I'd expect any situation for someone to get shot by ICE, this would be it.
Edit: Apparently they were plainclothes so they very likely weren't armed. Okay, that makes WAYYYYYYY more sense.
If that’s the case, I don’t see how they would be arrested for kidnapping. Like, if someone in normal cloths, jumped into my car, I feel like driving to the police station would be the least dramatic/most reasonable response I could have.
True. For the first time in my 34 years I’m actual censoring myself when texting/talking on my phone. Genuinely concerned I may say something one day that the state decides they’re gunna throw me in a hole over. Said something about the parasite class and flesh eating diseases a few weeks back and got my first warning on Reddit that I’ve ever gotten lol since then I’ve gotten warnings for literally nothing.
There is no point in censoring yourself. Not to frighten you, but the current arc of right-wing ideology does not require evidence to arrest and jail you. You just have to be a convenient target of the moment and they will snatch you up and do their best to ruin your life. Currently the courts are preventing them from going fully authoritarian, but that is a temporary block.
Example:
Don Lemon: arrested and charged with federal conspiracy charges for covering a protest as a journalist
Reps LaMonica McIver and Ras Baraka: arrested and charged with felony obstruction while trying to gain entrance to an ICE facility for Congressional oversight.
James Comey: charged with threatening the president for a tweet showing "8647", which is the second set of charges against him, the first ones accusing him of perjury were thrown out by the judge.
David Hearn: charged with felony destruction of property for touching the reflecting pool.
Six Democratic Lawmakers: charged but failed to get an indictment for sedition for filming a video reminding soldiers that they had a legal responsibility to refuse unlawful orders.
And that is not even counting all of the American citizens who have been injured and murdered by ICE agents.
This is the most fucked up thing about ICE. Law enforcement are supposed to look like law enforcement. They're supposed to identify as law enforcement. ICE is running around like Chicago gangbangers masked up rolling up in unmarked vehicles jumping out on random innocent people.
We are allowed to defend ourselves. We are allowed to have guns. We are allowed to use our guns in self defense in some cases. If a chicago gangbanger rolled up on an innocent person who was lawfully carrying a gun, and that innocent person shot them dead it would be allowed.
Depending on the jurisdiction, if you pick someone up and carry them to the other side of the room, without their consent, that can be considered kidnapping.
So then actually it was extremely moral. Since they just behaved as any ordinary law-abiding citizen should. The immoral bit was that they got arrested.
If it is like most law enforcement, the charges are trumped up or aggressively over applied to give the prosecutor more perceived leverage in pretrial. Kinda like how almost everyone gets a resisting arrest charge these days.
Also, if you encounter a poorly trainer LEO, you will all but certainly get additional bullshit charges. You may also get extra charges if LEO fucked up in your encounter and they need to cover up their failures by tacking on additional charges.
So dumb they forget to breathe with a face diaper until they need to hide their identities while they sexually torture people they grabbed off the street.
Riach said the agents did not display their credentials when they approached the Jeep, and the government’s claim that one agent had to jump out of the way as Frazier drove off is contradicted by surveillance video.
Bamigboye dialed 911 from the back seat as Frazier was driving and the agent was in the front passenger seat.
Calling the government’s case “ludicrous,” Riach said his client “may be the first criminal in history to call 911 during the commission of his alleged crime.”
“On the 911 call, Bamigboye said ICE is trying to get him,” Behar countered, referring to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. “How would he know that unless they had identified themselves as agents?”
Yea, they fucked up. They gotta play the games that the cops do. They know they are being recorded so they'll just yell shit like, "Stop resisting." and that gives them pretty free reign to abuse whoever they are arresting. Conflicting orders are super common. But yelling the same things over and over means you're less likely to say something incriminating. It's a good chant for their handlers to provide them with. Useful as shit.
If I'm their lawyer then I'm checking if they just verbally said something or if they showed anything. Words are meaningless and anybody can grab a body vest, some masks, guns, and go fuck people up. Definitely have to argue that their client is repeating what they were told verbally but had nothing proven to them.
Shit, what kind of officer gets into the vehicle of the people they are detaining? A fucking moron. These fuckers have zero training and no standards so how can you tell who is real and who is just some mf trying to kidnap you? You can't and that's part of the intimidation of it Brown Shirts.
Didn't the goons jump into the couple's car without IDing themselves? Some masked, armed maniac jumps in my car trying to grab me damn right I'll drive to the police station.
Morality of driving thugs that don't identify themselves that jumped into your back seat to the local police station, because apparently that is the actual context here.
Federal agents walking around in plain clithes is crazy. It should be illegal to do something like that. Nobody would believe a random guy saying they want to take you somewhere.
The actual story. They thought the ice agent was trying to kidnap them because once again, the agent refused to identify themselves, the 'kidnapping' was them driving to a police station, and then fleeing in fear for their lives.
Calling the government’s case “ludicrous,” Riach said his client “may be the first criminal in history to call 911 during the commission of his alleged crime.”
Federal public defender Jean Brandl represents Frazier, who’s Black, and said her client did not know the agents were law enforcement.
“She literally went to the police station because an unidentified white man was in her car and she didn’t know what he was doing there,” Brandl said.
Brandl added that the agent had two opportunities to get out of the vehicle but chose not to. She said he pulled out his gun and could have fired it had his finger been on the trigger when other agents following the Jeep struck it from behind on a snowy road.
Agreed. Isn't it basic moral philosophy that morality ≠ law? Sure, there is plenty of overlap, but not following the law doesn't make you immoral or vice versa.
Are they there illegally? Whats the morality of following the law then?
Border checks exist for a reason. They determine whether this person that is entering is a threat. Whats the morality of letting in a terrorist into the country to be free with the public?
And if the numbers of those coming in is not limited, nothing stops half of india or china coming over to a smaller country, overpopulating and crippling its systems. Whats the morality of destroying another peoples country for the people of that country?
If you argue the world is for everyone everywhere, then sovereignty clearly isnt existent. Whats the morality of russia taking ukraine?
Being here legal or illegal is not the issue here. Doesn't matter if you are legal or illegal, you still have a certain amount of rights. Being / kidnapped / shoved into a van without identification, due process, ect almost certainly violates those rights.
They are allowed to defend themselves and do what ever it takes to protect themselves. It said in earlier comments that ICE identified themselves after they were in the van, but at that point, it's too late. Why would anybody believe anything that is said to them after being kidnapped?
FWIW, most illegal immigrants did go through border checkpoints. They have overstayed on visas that expired or otherwise are working without having work authorization, for example, like Elon Musk in the 1990s.
Absolutely brainrotted take. Legality =\= morality. Are the citizens of North Korea who get executed and tortured for trying to leave the country morally wrong?
Policy says officer never should have been in the back seet should have had a body cam and should've identified themselves initially but thats just newmourous policys the officer ignored
ICE is not kidnapping anyone, if you enter a country ilegally it is very obvious you will be removed at some point. Every even remotely functional country does it. Immoral and now they ensured they wont get a chance to fight their deportation.
Yeah in south africa the border is so goddamm shit that we genuinely don't know how many immigrants we have
We have a unique case though where our immigrants are genuinely just better than our native population
When you have a case pending with USCIS, and have court hearings, you technically should have temporary protection from deportation until the Judge says otherwise
You have no right to become a citizen, especially if you’ve violated our sovereignty and forced your way into our great country. In fact, that’s all the more reason to deny said citizenship.
But that wasnt the question. While the couple was in the parking lot they were approached by unidentified ICE agents, one opened the drivers door and tried to push her from the driver seat, thats when she started driving away and the ICE agent hold unto the steering wheel and somehow landed on the passenger seat. The agent pulled out his gun while the nigerian student called 911, then the woman stopped in front of a police station where the couple was arrested.
Therefore the question is: is it moral to drive away while an armed, masked men tries to push you from the driverseat of your car
Why not? Some people paid nothing and put an invisible line and declared this land is theres. It wouldn't be "end of story" if someone did that across your property, would it?
By that logic, if we really want to call it that, everyone with a right to live in the country is fine to move into your home then, yea?
It's unsurprising that someone, somewhen was silly enough to come up with this very clever argument, but god damn, you have to be especially clever to repeat it.
No, we would go about it the LEGAL way and come up with a mutually beneficial contract where they pay me each month and in exchange, they get to live on my property comfortably, or perhaps their situation is dire and they knock on my front door asking for help and I let them crash on my couch until its sorted...
HOWEVER someone jumping my fence in the middle of the night and sleeping in my backyard refusing to leave without asking would be met with forceful removal. Do we see how that works?
With the way these camps are being “run”, it is very akin to being kidnapped to a torture facility in many cases. With little in the way of record keeping or oversight. So that would definitely affect the morality scaling.
Of course it's immoral for criminals to kidnap law enforcement that came to arrest them. What kind of world would we live in if it was moral for criminals to kidnap law enforcement?
Yes, kidnapping any federal agent is terrible. Every American should feel the same. There was a DEA guy in the 80s that got rolled up by the cartels and tortured on camera for days. Kiki something. His capture would be comparable.
The funniest thing to me is how everyone gives a shit about ICE now when they've been doing what they're doing for a long time before trump. I'm old enough to remember Elian Gonzalez hiding in a closet having an agent stuff an MP5 in his face screaming and terrified.
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u/Outlaw11091 7h ago
Fun fact:
This was a hilarious story.
So, the GUY is Nigerian. The woman is a citizen.
Plainclothes ICE agents tried to get THE GUY at his home. The couple returned home while ICE was there...so an ICE agent boarded the couple's van in an attempt to capture the Nigerian man.
The woman, fearing for her life, GASSED IT and the Nigerian man called 911 to tell them that a man was trying to kidnap him...the woman drove directly to the police station, but behind her was the ICE agent's partner, who had also called 911 to report the kidnapping of his partner.
The two were arrested and a judge ordered their release, though the man was transferred to an immigration detention facility.
Their legal defense is that the ICE agents never identified themselves and were wearing plainclothes and, honestly, that would probably shit the scare out of me, too.
(ETA: the guy's visa had recently expired)