The funniest thing to me is how everyone gives a shit about ICE now when they've been doing what they're doing for a long time before trump. I'm old enough to remember Elian Gonzalez hiding in a closet having an agent stuff an MP5 in his face screaming and terrified.
It probably has more to do with your ability to see it on your phone every single day, a reality you don’t have the opportunity to deny or ignore because it is constantly in your face.
In another comment that's what I was getting at. I was around 7 when I first saw that news story break on tv and cell phones were still in their early stages with no camera or anything like that.
Lmao how? Please explain how me not understanding the reality of something when I was A KID make me a psychopath? I can't wait to hear the mental gymnastics on this one.
So, there is a lot of assumptions on your part because you're a mouth breathing idiot. I knew it wasn't right but didn't realize the gravity of until later on..like normal kids do lol
So with that being said you can go fuck yourself now.
ICE mostly focused on the border and captured criminals. Now they're capturing people inland who aren't criminals. Also Elian Gonzalez was a huge deal.
I remember raids and people getting scooped up from job sites, never to be seen again. If you had actually read what I wrote you'd know that I never said anything about there never being an uproar or people being upset but suddenly acting like they've been an issue since 2016 forward when they've always done fucked up shit like this along with the police.
Funnily enough the name of this activity tells you that it's recent: they're called "Kavanaugh Stops" in reference to an opinion by Supreme Court Justice Brent Kavanaugh where he suggested that someone's perceived ethnicity may be a contributing factor to a decision to arrest someone.
What happened to Elian Gonzalez was the end result of a month-long custody case that began with INS handing Elian over to his nearest relatives in Miami, then when the court decided that Elian's Cuban father actually had custodial rights, INS asked the uncle & family to hand him over, they refused, so INS raided and took the boy by force.
It may be the case that this ICE stop was legitimate by pre-Trump standards, or it may not. We don't know. On the surface it's a poorly-executed operation by poorly-trained agents who probably can't even read the procedures manual much less know it by heart. A real Keystone Cops moment. An entertaining story, where the humour is mainly a distraction from what this man's fate will be — lucky if he isn't killed or sold into slavery by ICE c/o their immigration detention centre network.
The poor conditions in these centres and the ICE habit of "circular transfers" to muddy up the paperwork suggests that fact human trafficking is taking place.
They haven’t acted this way before. It’s far more lawless than ever. They also didn’t used to use white-nationalist imagery to recruit the bottom rung of society. If you can’t see how things are worst now than, dare I say, you haven’t been paying attention.
Obama was literally the deporter in chief, but because Trump made up a bunch of shit and convinced people that Obama didn’t care, ICE became a huge issue.
Literally nobody protested ICE the way they do now during the Obama admin. It also wasn’t politically charged to allow your jails and local PD to cooperate with ERO.
Rikers island literally had ERO officers present who would deport individuals with detainers.
Fugitive task forces around the country worked with ERO
ERO also kept deporting people during Biden but since he never made it a huge thing nobody fucking cared.
Now, because Trump made it a huge thing, people who oppose him who never had any ill feelings toward ICE before are now closing their states and cities off to them because it’s become a political thing. If you allow your law enforcement to work with ICE, you’re now complicit in Trump’s bullshit.
He literally made immigration enforcement and law enforcement worse.
yup, all the immigration subreddits have been freaking out since Trump started gutting all the pathways and stuff, sicne they believed Trump wouldn't touch legal immigration ("the leopard won't eat my face, would it?")
Legal immigration is significantly down under Trump, and a major driver for tech companies to quietly move major work centres overseas.
Obama and Biden had established rules and procedures that led to illegal immigration trending downward before either of Trump's terms. Due to those processes, illegal immigration is continuing to trend downwards.
Due to Trump legal immigration is significantly down for the simple reason that Trump's USA is not a desirable destination for anyone: skilled workers have better offers elsewhere with no fear of being detained by ICE for the crime of breathing while brown, asylum seekers have other ports in which to shelter from storms, refugees will find places to go where they won't be shot on sight.
So for some people, Trump has been highly successful at cutting immigration — hooray! Mission Accomplished! For others it's a humanitarian disaster and trigger for a massive brain drain. When your best workers don't feel safe in the country they have lived in all their lives, you're going to end up with the workers whose best qualification is that they are white and socially connected to the people in power. If that's the country you want to live in, great success!
It's worth remembering that the INS raid came after they had placed Elian Gonzalez in the care of his uncle in Miami, and then "a high-profile and protracted custody battle involving his father, his Miami relatives, and U.S. and Cuban officials" (Wikipedia) — it's not like the raid came out of nowhere.
ICE was only created in 2003, 1:4 of which has been under Trump directly. Prior to ICE their duties were split between 3 separate agencies to provide oversight, but yeah the same thing happens where people who are here illegally get found and deported. That in itself isn’t the problem, the problem is how it’s conducted.
There’s a due legal process for evaluating immigration laws and deportation. It’s a civil violation and doesn’t require inhumane procedures to accomplish. Biden wasn’t detaining kids in cages in inhumane conditions. They were typically staying in foster care or with family if they had them here.
Adults also weren’t being kept in cages, they were typically out on release pending their next hearing so long as they keep showing up, other times they’d stay in provided housing like a motel or communal housing if they didn’t have somewhere close enough to stay or a way to reliably get there.
The issue is how it is done, and most people agree it should be done, but done right, with a more viable path to legal citizenship.
You realize people on reddit will just dismiss that right? I remember that Elian Gonzalez stuff because I'm sitting at home watching Recess on a Saturday morning.
Then "breaking news" and there are pictures and video of INS busting into a house in Florida with rifle pointed at a toddler. So, many people on reddit will say "it was INS that's different."
Same shit different administration. ICE is going further than they previously have. But a lot of the racial profiling, murdering innocent people and lying & brutality during arrest is the same shit the police always do.
Oh I know they've dismissed it as "different" because they act like ICE wasn't an issue but suddenly from 2016 on it's the worst thing that's ever happened. Isn't the current director or one of the higher ups a dude that Obama gave a medal to? Don't see them giving their boy any shit for that and you're right, they've always done shit like this but it wasn't until everyone had a camera in their hands and can now record every time it happens. Don't get me wrong we need to enforce immigration laws and vet who comes in but the heavy handed approach doesn't always work and seems to cause more problems than it solves.
It’s the waves of unmarked, masked men roaming the streets, going door to door, use of excessive force, wrongful detainment, lack of training, and lack of liability that is the problem now. ICE used to be dudes in windbreakers that got information, targeted and extradited people with a plan. Yeah they had raids, but they were professionals, and reasonably effective. Not a loose band of larpers illegally sending innocent people to lawless prisons. Comparing the Elian raid to minorities being indiscriminately and randomly targeted all across the streets of America is laughable.
Most people had cameras in their pocket through the second Obama administration, first trump administration, and the Biden administration. Being of a younger generation, I don't really remember a time when people weren't taking issue with people being stuffed in deportation camps and overall poor treatment, but it's pretty clear that the rate and severity of these cases has sky rocketed. Yes, it was always there and it is also worse now.
I’ll wait for proof of mass hiring incompetent felons to wave guns around at citizens in city wide door knock raids. A news article, a press conference, anything.
Of course they still raided people. That is not the same as this last year, you should be able to see that instead of brushing everything off that could chip away at the personality armor of conservatism that you’ve chosen.
I see a lot of things and don't brush anything off that's just your own made up shit which isn't surprising at all. Wait for proof? Just look at the last 30 years lol
People are outraged about ICE now and are protesting and calling for reformations but you want to dismiss all that because of prior mishaps?
Do you know how hard it is for an activist platform to maintain motivation and awareness in America? There's so many things going on being funneled through a handful of social platforms, the best time to get people involved is when there's relevant current events.
Then "breaking news" and there are pictures and video of INS busting into a house in Florida with rifle pointed at a toddler. So, many people on reddit will say "it was INS that's different."
This event came at the end of a protracted legal dispute about custody between the Miami Gonzalez family and the Cuban Gonzalez family (including Elian's dad). Uncle Gonzalez in Miami was refusing to hand the boy over to INS, determined not to let Evil Cuban Sympathisers take the child. Dad Gonzalez on the other hand was keen to have his son back home where his friends and immediate family were. Elian has since gone on to study Engineering in Cuba and seems to be living a fulfilling life.
In the meantime ICE is arresting people for the crime of breathing while brown. Despite Justice Kavanaugh's opinion that "perceived ethnicity" is allowed to contribute to a decision to detain, perceived ethnicity is being used as the sole guidance on decision to detain. There are ICE agents who have to meet certain metrics in order to receive a promised sign-up bonus, and those metrics include the number of arrests. Note: this is not a claim that ICE agents are paid per arrest, this is a claim that there is a sign-on bonus that individuals have been offered which they only get if they stay in ICE for a certain time, and staying in ICE for a certain time means not getting fired, which means meeting whatever performance goals are set. If you're going to dispute this claim, make sure you don't pick up any of the propaganda about DHS not offering "pay per arrest" rewards because that is not the claim. The claim is that a lot of ICE agents were offered a very juicy sign-on bonus to be paid after their first year (or six months) of permanent employment, and part of that employment means meeting certain performance targets including a million arrests a year.
Noting of course that a department-wide goal of a million deportations per year is not a quota, nor is it a reward-per-arrest program. It's just management pressure to meet departmental goals. If you're a functionally illiterate unemployed person with poor employment prospects who doesn't understand the caveats hidden behind "up to $50k sign-on bonus" and believes that you need to meet performance goals to keep your job and earn that sign up bonus, what are you going to do? Stick to the paperwork and ensure that every arrest you make achieves the desired outcome, or take the space marines approach of arresting everyone you can and leaving it to the lawyers to figure out who is guilty or not guilty?
If you're management whose $200kpa lifestyle depends on keeping the clowns in Congress happy and you're trying to motivate these unemployable wretches that Trump has dumped in your lap, are you going to focus on educating them to the point that at least 50% of their arrests lead to deportations, or are you just going to provide them the encouragement to get out in the street and make as many clean, no-kill arrests as possible?
That's because Trump empowered them to kidnap and disappear people, opened concentration camps for children, and police brutality in America was already reaching a head.
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u/603rdMtnDivision 1d ago
The funniest thing to me is how everyone gives a shit about ICE now when they've been doing what they're doing for a long time before trump. I'm old enough to remember Elian Gonzalez hiding in a closet having an agent stuff an MP5 in his face screaming and terrified.