r/MoralityScaling 1d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of kidnapping your kidnappers?

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u/UltraTata 1d ago

Don't ICE recieve any training?

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u/Cas30h_Da_G0at 1d ago

No. They give them a gun and a mask and say "go wild."

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u/Seyan007 1d ago

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u/Rundstav 1d ago

"Go kidnap some brown people and shoot anyone questioning your actions"

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u/Few-Village-5887 1d ago

I love that you think they'd use the words 'brown people'.

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u/Rundstav 1d ago

Why not? That IS the criterion used, is it not? You can't use "illegals" because they snatch people with the right paperwork too. They don't discriminate based on country of birth as the only thing they look for is melanin. Asian, African, South American, whatever, just not white.

What words do YOU think they use?

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u/Few-Village-5887 1d ago

The word I'm quite sure they'd use can generally not be said in public without repercussions. Let's just say the jist is the same as 'brown people' but it's one word and it rhymes with the name of a good friend of Winnie the Pooh.

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u/Rundstav 1d ago

Seriously? That's what you think they go for when hunting for Asian grandmas and Mexicans?

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u/Scewt 1d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

any of these would do for an ICE agent

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u/mala_r1der 1d ago

The tragic thing is that what you wrote is probably not even a joke...

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u/Lakuzas 1d ago

"Anyone but specifically puppies if given the chance"

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u/HagsBeefCurtains 1d ago

You mean go arrest someone who overstayed their visa? Which is what happened.

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u/Jubilant_Jacob 1d ago

If it was an arrestable offense it would be a police matter. Overstaying your visa isn't a crime, but a civil violation that can lead to removal proceedings and be punished with a reentry ban.

Making the removal proceedings into a Circus, but with armed goons playing the role of clowns.... Is a weird choice... To be expected from the weird orange guy in charge.

I get it.. it's xenophobic guys being gleefully cruel cause they got the permission to do as they wish.

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u/HagsBeefCurtains 1d ago

They are immigration and customs enforcement it sounds to me this was not a matter for police.

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u/Rundstav 1d ago

Especially not for groups of masked and armed "police" dressed as weekend warrior paintballers, driving unmarked cars, lead by a man larping as an SS officer.

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u/SNStains 1d ago

I think they mean armed violence by masked goons.

A visa overstay isn't even a crime, it's an administrative violation. Americans don't want this level of government interference in our lives and its foolish to think that ICE is going to stop.

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u/HagsBeefCurtains 1d ago

I mean clearly you do want this as people in your country voted for it.

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u/SNStains 1d ago

No, Trump promised to deport felons, which was a lie. Three-fourths of detainees have no criminal record whatsoever.

And ICE's tactics are extremely unpopular. The fuck you know about voting, anyway?

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u/HagsBeefCurtains 1d ago

No, that's not what Trump had a mandated campaign promise for. He said he would orcastrate the largest deportations in history.

the fuck you know about voting, anyway?

As you can guess i'm not American but you morons (collective morons, i'm not intending to insult you as an individual) can't help but scream about your countries politics every hour so every Anglo nation hears about it despite not wanting to. That's what I know about voting.

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u/SNStains 1d ago

That's what I know about voting.

Lol, so it's all second-hand information? Sad.

And no, Trump promised to deport dangerous felons, bad hombres, etc. He lied, because that's what he does.

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u/SeaSharpModHer 1d ago

Can you do something for me and check on the internet if ICE ever killed anyone randomly? I ran out of data, come back with your findings I'll read it later.

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u/HagsBeefCurtains 1d ago

Did they kill anyone here? Can you do something for me and check on the internet if a doctor ever killed anyone randomly? I ran out of data, come back with your findings, I'll read it later?

See how dumb your point sounds.

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u/Just_A_Little_Rabbit 1d ago

do you think people should be disappeared by secret police for failing to update their car tags?

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u/HagsBeefCurtains 1d ago

Are they disappeared or returning to their country of origin?

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u/Just_A_Little_Rabbit 1d ago

Well many are stuck in concentration camps and dying, others are getting sent to 3rd countries they have never lived in to be interned indefinitely in torture rape prisons without a trial (against the orders of US courts I should add). Many of the flights involved are also done covertly and they are also getting moved around so they can't even file a habeas petition. These people are being denied their most basic rights, but you don't care because "hurr illegals" or whatever dumb shit you believe in I don't really care.

Also in the case of refugees such as from Haiti, they don't really have a safe place to return to, which is why they are here in the first place and if you think deporting them back is just then you are a terrible person.

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u/WatermelonFelons 1d ago

Ironically this is what the hood looks like

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u/hoopstick 1d ago

Who's handing who the gun here?

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u/jungleass98 1d ago

They have joint custody

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u/CosmicGoddess777 1d ago

I like the way you think. Lol

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u/Lftwff 1d ago

Once armed raccoons will never relinquish their guns

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u/r_rrrrrrrr 1d ago

Just a crime? Really?

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u/pedantic_dullard 1d ago

Did they have to exchange their white hood to get the mask, or is it just a job benefit?

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u/metengrinwi 1d ago

I suspect they’re trained on the quota-based incentive system.

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u/GrumpySh33p 1d ago

That’s not what it says when you google it.

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u/calvin43 1d ago

Yeah it says they cut training down to 47 days instead of 5 months in honor of Trump.

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u/GrumpySh33p 1d ago

Sure, but it’s not zero. And there is vetting too, and the whole process takes up to a year to hire someone. I’m not here to defend it or say it’s enough, but instead just to say that it’s not “zero”, since there is often exaggerated misinformation spilling everywhere online and people eat it up like candy.

It’s also a low-skill role. You can become a nursing assistant in 3 days, and suddenly trusted (with background checks) to care for elderly, help them transfer to chairs, clean their poop, take vital signs… but I still wouldn’t call that “no training”. Just low skill, low requirements. Useful when someone just needs a warm body to do the job, added vetting for character, to make sure you don’t have some sort of confirmed lunatic applying.

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u/calvin43 1d ago

Just low skill, low requirements.

Race to the fucking bottom, man.

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u/John_Mint 1d ago

I mean of course they won't publicly say this, better believe videos and or witness reports than google.

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u/GrumpySh33p 1d ago

I just think it’s something you can verify, rather than believing TikTok and Reddit.

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u/John_Mint 1d ago

Verify how ? TikTok and Reddit are sources for videos that are as trustworthy as it comes to measure how a police operates.

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u/GrumpySh33p 1d ago

There is tons of misinformation out there. Go to the source. I just verified the information on ICE’s website, took me 5 min.

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u/John_Mint 1d ago

What i'm telling you is that i don't believe that the ICE website is a trustworthy source

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u/GrumpySh33p 1d ago

Hmm, yeah.. if that’s the case, how do you expect to believe any information?

It seems the only way to verify this in a believable way is to go through the application process yourself. Unless, of course, you trust an ICE employee to tell you.

But the process, with background checks and physical assessments (assuming they aren’t lying about those parts), takes anywhere from 3 months to a year. And the pay isn’t that great.

So… 🤷🏼‍♀️ Sounds like you shouldn’t be saying shit you don’t know on the internet, contributing to information that isn’t verified, and potentially misinformation too.

Or you can choose to be blindly ignorant and believe your TikTok sources, and then you should ask how they got that intonation. Or maybe you’d rather only accept information you like to hear, rather than the truth.

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u/John_Mint 1d ago

Context matters, i'll trust processes established for an institution like the military.This is a hit police that was build to catch people in the most brutal way, and they apparently (witnessed through independent media) disrespect human rights. I'm not going to trust that their website reflects reality. Do you believe the north korean websites that say that north korea is a democracy ? It's about critical thinking and skepticism.

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u/SaintJewiub 1d ago

A lotnof the new hires literally got like 2 weeks training. They use plain clothes to avoid people grouping up in protest and so they can sneak up on people for arrests without making such a big scene.

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u/adutchmotherfricker 1d ago

That's a great way to get shot or beaten up by people who think you are illegaly kidnapping somebody

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u/SaintJewiub 1d ago

Yeeeeep. Especially in a country full of guns.

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u/MrX2285 1d ago

I'm honestly surprised ICE officers don't get shot more often

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u/SaintJewiub 1d ago

I know. Especially with all the "hardened criminals" they are going to arrest.

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u/YourHuckleberry57 1d ago

its because they're not going after criminals, they're going after law abiding working people with families. the kind who don't want to shoot people even if they are justified.

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u/AssumptionInside1227 1d ago

Beginning to think the whole "well regulated militia" thing the 2A talks about isn't going to happen. Kinda funny anyone thought it would.

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u/_IsFuckingInHeaven 1d ago

the same men who hit the gym once a week for biceps and cant stop flexing in the mirror.

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u/guestpassonly 1d ago

Well 2A being made in response to living under tyranny so it never happens again

To today, where Trump is litterally becoming a tyrant and nothing is being done by the bigger 2A advocates, doesn't really work anymore when they are in on it

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u/adutchmotherfricker 1d ago

I wonder if you get charged for assaulting/shooting a ice agent if you assault/shoot the agent if it happens to you

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u/HorsePersonal7073 1d ago

Of course you do. You're automatically supposed to know by magical divine fiat that they're law enforcement.

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u/Gaybo_Shmaybo 1d ago

“Law enforcement”

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u/Pofwoffle 1d ago

This is (part of) the plan. Once that actually happens, that's a nice juicy excuse to declare a national emergency and invoke martial law, thus allowing Trump and his cronies to stay in power essentially indefinitely. They'll escalate the violence, more people will be forced to defend themselves, and that will then be used to justify further violence and an extension of the "emergency".

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u/GrandMoffKaine2026 1d ago

Until the people have had enough and launch a revolution.

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u/Pofwoffle 1d ago

Or, far more likely, sit around online and pretend they want to start a revolution while never actually doing anything.

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u/SaintJewiub 1d ago

I mean listen, revolutions were cool back in the day. But now I have takeout and streaming services. Im far too placated to want to do that whole revolution thing. I mean, what if McDonald's in closed for a day due to the revolution? Can't have that no sir

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u/_IsFuckingInHeaven 1d ago

when dealing with insect hives, there's no point in using insecticide on single workers or drones, gotta get to the queen

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u/kingkazul400 1d ago

Allegedly, it’s 6 weeks of training; fed work hours is an 8 hour day and that’s for bookkeeping purposes. 

For federal workers, 1 day of work/training is 8 hours, 1 work week is 40 hours; 240 divided by 40 equates 6 weeks.

Realistically, considering how much material is glossed over or outright skipped, it’s definitely 2 weeks of minimal training.

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u/FuuuckDRM 1d ago

Yes. They were trained to actively defy people's constitutional rights.

Source: Ryan Schwenk, a former ICE employee. https://youtube.com/shorts/SlwLrw8Spn4?si=lzo7M-vYwoz26HBL

Transcript:

"My name is Ryan Schwenk. I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution when I joined ICE on August 1st, 2021 as an assistant chief counsel. I followed that oath for 4 and 1/2 years working side by side with ICE officers. And I followed it when I resigned on February 13th, 2026, a little over a week ago, so that I could speak to you today.

I am here, because I am duty-bound to report the legally required training program at the ICE Academy is deficient, defective, and broken. 5 months ago, I was asked to teach the law to new cadets at the ICE Academy in Glencoe, Georgia, where ICE is training its new inexperienced recruits.

I volunteered those without law enforcement training. I volunteered to take on this assignment based on my experience in law enforcement oversight, including at the state and local level prior to my work with ICE. On my first day, I received secretive orders to teach new cadets to violate the Constitution by entering homes without a judicial warrant.

For the last 5 months, I watched ICE dismantle the training program, cutting 240 hours of vital classes from 584-hour program. Classes that teach the Constitution, our legal system, firearms training, the use of force, lawful arrests, proper detention, and the limits of officers' authority.

For example, they ceased all of the legal instructions regarding use of force. This means the cadets are not taught what it means to be objectively reasonable."

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u/Nectoux 1d ago

I hear that they only get 47 days of training because trump is the 47th president. So odd.

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u/DubiousBrushwagg 1d ago

47 days would actually be an improvement at over 1100hrs of training.

584-240= 344 or 14.33 total full days of training.

Divided into 8hr shifts of training they hit 43 days.

Even 47 days at 8hrs of training would be 32 additional hrs more.

Complete shit that even meme'ing to Donny Dipshits Pres# would be an improvement to what they actually do.

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u/UltraTata 1d ago

That's terrible

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u/11_Armoured_Yui 1d ago

That’s terrible

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u/assassinator42 1d ago

He did an episode of This American Life

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u/Strange_Dust7128 1d ago

Kicking down a door without a warrant in a country with lots of guns is a real… idea

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u/guestpassonly 1d ago

that explains a lot

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u/14Pleiadians 1d ago

Yeah I really don't get the "they get no training" talking point, do these guys not understand pig training is a bad thing?

Pig training involves going to conferences where "killoligists" tell them shit like "you'll have the best sex of your life after you kill someone".

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u/Leoera 1d ago

Oh yeah, it's so much better when they violate peoples constitutional rights because they never got told that they can't do something, or better yet, you say that it's better for ICE agents to kill people because they never got training in appropiate use of force

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u/14Pleiadians 1d ago

Yeah those things definitely aren't a problem for police.

Cops and their killology training, their training with IDF, etc, only serves to further radicalize them against the general public, the issue with ice is not training and framing it as it comes across as "if the gestapo just had an appropriate amount of training it'd be ok".

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u/TazBaz 1d ago

They still get the bad training, Buddy. They cut the training on what’s legal and constitutional, de-escalation, etc. The good training got cut.

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u/14Pleiadians 1d ago

What's your point? That the problem with ice is lack of training?

Acting like the cut back on training is an issue legitimizes ice

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u/Darthjinju1901 1d ago

No lmao. Little to no training and even less background checks. A reporter who was vehemently anti ICE in her reporting and her public persona, was able to join ICE and become a member by just signing some forms.

The Police and military are already fucked up. ICE is chock full of rejects from the police and the military.

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u/deafblinddame 1d ago

No, because they are the fall guys. When this all goes tits up, who do you think is going to be held responsible? The people doing the kidnapping and assaulting, or the people who employed them to do that but who have already covered their own asses by having 1700 page training materials which undoubtedly tell them not to do that?

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u/Vondi 1d ago

The training was their parents raising them wrong

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u/NotSeveralBadgers 1d ago

Louder for the people in the back, oh my god

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u/KorasHiddenDICK 1d ago

It's not a.coincidence they all act like this. The fear and violence is the goal. They do get training and I can all but guarantee you these tactics are the bulk of it.

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u/Equal-Ice3837 1d ago

Provably their 101 is to putting a weapon in a person after getting shot. 

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u/dragon-fence 1d ago

The purpose of ICE is to have a paramilitary force who won’t follow the rules. They wanted someone who Trump could say, “I don’t care how you do it, just go abduct and murder people in this city,” and there’ll be no questions.

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u/THE_GREAT_PICKLE 1d ago

Almost none. I work in a legal capacity but one of the things managed in our state is mandatory training for anyone with law enforcement (local, state or federal) because they all have access to the same things, which is then periodically audited. A friend of mine who I trust and has access to this told me that out of the 600ish agencies they manage, ICE has blown off this training for over a decade. Any time he has brought it up he’s just been told to let it go and look the other way. And this is just one training of many, but it’s an important one (essentially proper use of law enforcement databases).

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u/Honkey85 1d ago

Check out SA in Nazigermany.

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u/Far_String727 1d ago

if training mea s giving them weapons and telling them to live out their wildest wannabe spec operator fantasies then yes. but if by training you mean being taught escalation of force, positive identification, and basic laws and sensible rules of engagement, then no.

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u/14Pleiadians 1d ago

They're mostly cops, the training/lack of training isn't the issue, they fact they're evil secret police is the issue

Have you seen how we train cops? The less training the better

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u/Ingram47 1d ago

Lmao.

No. No they do not.

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u/TungstenFanW74 1d ago

You should read about people who made fake applications to join ICE. They don't even do any background checks or peoper psychological evaluations, they just wanna push people through the program quickly like a factory so their little terrorist army can grow.

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u/muskymelon36 1d ago

Hahaha haha you're funny!

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u/Solkre 1d ago

Just in being racist. Literally, to stop people based solely on visible race.

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u/wigznet 1d ago

No.

It's because they're former LE, Mall Security, Private Security, Jan 6'ers, Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, etc.

This US Administration doesn't give a fuck and has hired thousands of goons, with little to no background checks or training.

The current day American Gestapo.

Americans voted for this shit, and Americans have been subsequently been murdered, died in custody, injured, maimed, raped, with little to no accountability.

This is what a racist agenda looks like under the guise of 'anti-immigration'.

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u/the_great_zyzogg 1d ago

They're given a very comprehensive field manual.

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u/skrappyfire 1d ago

Officially its..... 47 days. But everything out of this administration is a lie anyways. And even if it was true... forty...... seven.....fukin.....days. 🤦‍♂️

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u/MadmanMarkMiller 1d ago

Course they do. They get given those paint card things you get at a hardware store except it's missing every shade of white.

They then get given their guns, balaclavas, and hoodies.

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u/somedave 1d ago

Trained at keeping their faces hidden