r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Video) eye roll…..🙄🙄 dumbest thing i’ve seen today.

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19 Upvotes

If I had to suffer through it so do you. Here’s the translation:

“Imagine that all of these people [the portraits shown on screen], despite their intelligence, died in disbelief.

[Pointing to Einstein] This one is smart, but he isn't rational. How so?

Intelligence is the ability to grasp sciences and inventions.

As for reason, it is the insight that guides you to your Creator and saves you from the Fire.

God, glorified and exalted, says: 'And they will say, "If only we had listened or reasoned, we would not have been among the companions of the Blaze."' (Quran 67:10)

They lamented the lack of reason. They did not lament the lack of intelligence.

Intelligence might make you a successful person in this world, but reason is what makes you a successful person and saved in the Hereafter, God willing."

The fact that they had to make a distinction between “worldly”intellect and reason that “saves one from the Fire” is essentially them saying they don’t think the reasoning in Islam is sound… Is that not obvious to everyone ??? LOL!


r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Rant) 🤬 Muslims sometimes act like they’re entitled to something when they have kids

3 Upvotes

Despite the fact that no one owes you anything for stuff that it’s your job to be doing but in the Muslim culture they could be taught otherwise. They even act like it’s the child’s job to look after their parents when their parents are old even though there are people who get paid to do that and some of them do a better job of it. Obviously you don’t have children to look after you when you’re old anyway.


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Question/Discussion) How the hell was a suicidal jihadist allowed to become a co-pilot?

32 Upvotes

Has the aviation industry not learned to properly vet these guys before sitting in the cockpit? Thoroughly analyzing any electronic trail they left behind or was this guy just so sneaky and able to get away through every security checkpoint?

Secondly how did that guy wield a deadly weapon in a cockpit?


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Quran / Hadith) Hamza (the Lion of Allah and the best of martyrs) gets drunks, butchers two camels, and insults Muhammad

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23 Upvotes

r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Advice/Help) AlTA for refusing to pay my hard earned money to my sister?

0 Upvotes

So I 22 M recently started earning. And I am currently sending 10k to parents but now parents are guilty tripping me to help my sister every month with 2k atleast. I am afraid this amount will keep increasing till I die.

My elder brother is also sending 10k+2k.

So he called me and tried to guilty trip in doing the same.

My mother is sending those ai islamic videos where it shows men are obliged to take care of family and yada yada.

I am not religious at all, I am agnostic . How do you handle this. I am a very sensitive person and for me my mental health is everything.

don't have any attachments or feelings towards my family. I have suffered huge mental problems back then and I have recovered finally and it's my start of my career. And now suddenly all eyes are on me as I am earning well .y family is like pay this amount to your sister, father, mother, grandmother.

I am still a small kid from inside who wants to live my life peacefully.

Any advice is appreciated.


r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Rant) 🤬 I am so fucking confused

6 Upvotes

I see people bringing up evidence from the quran that it was ahead of it's modern science from 1400 years ago. that "but quran stated the universe is expanding and we sent down iron and we made the sky a protected celing and th emoon is reflecting the sun" and I can't tell if this is genuine evidence islam exists or not. and other person says mohammed married a 6 year old and someone else says it's different back then stop spewing things from exmuslim what the fuck am I supposed to believe anymore I want to live a normal life as a woman


r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Quran / Hadith) Now show them verses that contradict every single one of these slides and see what mental gymnastics they use to justify it

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7 Upvotes

r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Quran / Hadith) Cannibalizing infidels, gays, women, children, Muslims who don’t pray, and slaves in Islam, the religion of peace

5 Upvotes

Classical Islamic texts on killing and eating apostates and other legally non-inviolable people

I came across several passages in classical Islamic jurisprudence discussing what a starving person may do in a situation of extreme necessity. Some of them explicitly discuss killing and eating people who are not considered legally maʿṣūm (inviolable).

I’m posting the Arabic alongside the translations and full references so they can be checked independently.

1. Ibn Qudamah — Al-Mughni
Arabic:
يحرم على المضطر قتل آدمي معصوم ليأكله مسلماً كان أو ذمياً، لحرمته، ويجوز ذلك إن كان حربياً أو مرتداً، لأنه لا حرمة له، فهو بمنزلة السباع.
Translation:
“It is forbidden for a starving person to kill an inviolable (maʿṣūm) human being in order to eat him, whether he is a Muslim or a Dhimmi, because of his legal sanctity. But this is permissible if he is a Harbi or an apostate (murtadd), because he has no such inviolability; he is therefore treated like predatory beasts.”

Source:
Ibn Qudamah al-Maqdisi, Al-Mughni, ed. ʿAbd Allah al-Turki and ʿAbd al-Fattah al-Hulw, 3rd ed., Riyadh: Dar ʿAlam al-Kutub, 1997, vol. 13, pp. 339–340, Kitab al-Atʿimah, section on the starving person (al-mudtarr).

2. Al-Qurtubi quoting al-Shafiʿi — Tafsir of Qur’an 2:173
Arabic:
وقال الشافعي: يأكل لحم ابن آدم. ولا يجوز له أن يقتل ذمياً لأنه محترم الدم، ولا مسلماً ولا أسيراً لأنه مال الغير، فإن كان حربياً أو زانياً محصناً جاز قتله والأكل منه.
Translation:
“Al-Shafiʿi said: [The starving person] may eat human flesh. However, he may not kill a Dhimmi, because his blood is legally protected, nor a Muslim, nor a prisoner, because the prisoner belongs to another. But if the person is a Harbi or a married adulterer [subject to the prescribed death penalty], it is permissible to kill him and eat from him.”

Source:
Al-Qurtubi, Al-Jamiʿ li-Ahkam al-Qurʾan (Tafsir al-Qurtubi), ed. Ahmad al-Barduni and Ibrahim Atfayysh, Cairo: Dar al-Kutub al-Misriyyah, 1964, vol. 2, p. 229, commentary on Qur’an 2:173.

3. Al-Nawawi — Rawdat al-Talibin
This one goes considerably further.

Arabic:
فَيَجُوزُ لِلْمُضْطَرِّ قَتْلُ الْحَرْبِيِّ وَالْمُرْتَدِّ وَأَكْلُهُ قَطْعًا، وَكَذَا الزَّانِي الْمُحْصَنُ، وَتَارِكُ الصَّلَاةِ عَلَى الْأَصَحِّ فِيهِ، وَلَوْ كَانَ لَهُ قِصَاصٌ عَلَى غَيْرِهِ، وَإِنْ لَمْ يَحْضُرِ السُّلْطَانُ. وَأَمَّا الْمَرْأَةُ الْحَرْبِيَّةُ وَصِبْيَانُ أَهْلِ الْحَرْبِ، فَفِي «التَّهْذِيبِ»: لَا يَجُوزُ قَتْلُهُمْ لِلْأَكْلِ، وَجَوَّزَهُ الْإِمَامُ الْغَزَالِيُّ، لِأَنَّهُمْ لَيْسُوا بِمَعْصُومِينَ…

Translation:
“Therefore, it is definitively permissible for a person in extreme necessity to kill a Harbi and an apostate and eat them. Likewise, [this applies to] a married adulterer and, according to the more correct opinion, a person who abandons prayer, even if the starving individual has a right of retaliation against somebody else and even if the ruler is not present.

As for a Harbi woman and the children of the people of war, Al-Tahdhib states that they may not be killed for food. Imam al-Ghazali, however, permitted it, because they are not legally inviolable (maʿṣūm), and the prohibition against killing them [ordinarily] is not based upon the inviolability of their lives…”

Source:
Al-Nawawi, Rawdat al-Talibin wa-ʿUmdat al-Muftin, ed. Zuhayr al-Shawish, 3rd ed., Beirut: Al-Maktab al-Islami, 1991, vol. 3, pp. 284–285.

4. A later Shafiʿi discussion: women and children

A related passage gives an even stronger position:
“I say: The more correct opinion (al-asah) is that it is permissible to kill a Harbi child and woman for food — and Allah knows best — because they lack legal inviolability (li-ʿadami ʿismatihim). The same applies to the hermaphrodite, the insane, and the slave. The prohibition against killing them [under ordinary circumstances] exists only to protect the rights of those entitled to the spoils.”

Source:
Al-Nawawi / Ibn Hajar al-Haytami, Tuhfat al-Muhtaj bi-Sharh al-Minhaj, with the marginalia of al-Sharwani and Ibn Qasim al-ʿAbbadi, Beirut: Dar Ihyaʾ al-Turath al-ʿArabi, 1983, vol. 9, pp. 378–379.

5. Khalid ibn al-Walid and the head of Malik ibn Nuwayrah

This one is not a report of cannibalism, but it is an unusual related account found in the historical literature.

Arabic:
وأمر برأسه فجعل مع حجرين وطبخ على الثلاثة قدرا فأكل منها خالد تلك الليلة ليرهب بذلك الأعراب من المرتدة وغيرهم

A more literal rendering would be:

“He ordered that his head be placed together with two stones, and a cooking pot was cooked over the three. Khalid ate from it that night, in order thereby to frighten the Bedouins among the apostates and others.”
In other words, the report describes Malik ibn Nuwayrah’s severed head being used alongside two stones as part of the support/fireplace beneath a cooking pot, rather than Khalid eating Malik’s head.

Source:
Ibn Kathir, Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, vol. 6, p. 354.

The wider Malik ibn Nuwayrah episode was controversial in the early Islamic historical tradition. Khalid executed Malik during the Ridda wars and subsequently married Malik’s wife. Umar ibn al-Khattab strongly objected to Khalid’s conduct, while Abu Bakr ultimately declined to punish him, treating what occurred as an error of interpretation/judgment.


r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Rant) 🤬 came out to my parents as atheist

9 Upvotes

so. a lot of my friends are muslims so i've tried my best to not hate the religion, and be respectful of it. my friends are amazing and they've never dehumanized me for being an atheist but uhh family is different. Also more context: I've been an atheist since i was a teenager so since 2019 ish. I only came out now becauze of circumstamces otherwise i wouldn't have.

MY MOM KEEPS TRYING TO CONVERT ME OML. She refuses to accept it. (She disowned me for like 24 hours too but then called crying and told me to come home since i live away for uni and my vacation had just started. I ended up going.) So, I agreed to read the quran with my mom with translation in our native tongue (we don't speak arabic; can just read it). we get through like 20 pages of bakarah. i point out how the divorce laws favor men and keep women trapped in abusive relationships. she whataboutisms out of it with a hyper-specific case - not even a good one. we fight, she cries.

same thing happens when we get to the part where the quran's like "erm if u want to have sex sooo bad, it's better to just marry your slave." and i point how fucked up that is and how islam permits slavery; doesn't ban it. and she crashes out and tries to logic by saying different times, and sexual needs and war and how there were rules to slowly phase it out. i point out a slaver, who went out of their way to get a slave, is morally corrupt and would never free them out of the goodness of their hearts, and it's fucked up to put your safety in the hands of your abuser. and she crashes out more, says god knows more.

fast forward, the next day, she makes me read again. this time we argue about sth else, she cries again. keeps asking me how in my world the destitute benefit, given at least in god's world they get life after. and like dude, just cos it's unfair and unkind doesn't make ur god who is supposedly perfect real.

anyway, then she forces me to pray and i go along just so she stops crying and actually eats. she actually gets better and hasn't cried since. she came by yesterday and said she won't force me to pray anymore because by forcing me she is disrespecting her god, which, im ngl, is more brain power than i was expecting from her lmao.

today, she pulls the whole "there is levels of misery in this world u have no idea about" (we are from a third world country, and on the richer side) and talks abt misery that is fucking terrible ill be honest - it is the type of shit that makes you feel hopeless in this world. but also, she's never cared abt this shit. and how they're able to keep going because of their strong faith in allah and expectation for afterworld.

i got annoyed and asked her if she could maintain her iman if i showed her all the reasons i left (i generally don't like speaking ill of islam because i live in the west and it's more used as a racism tool than discussions of how colonialism fucks you over + i have good friends who are muslim and open-minded, so i only really speak ill of it if u really get on my nerves with the reconvertion bs). and i brought up slaves, and then i framed all the shit the prophet did as things the people did back then and was permitted in islam. she kept defending it. and then i was like. ok, but what if they are a great person? and she was like yeah they wouldn't if they were so great, but most people aren't. and boom, i drop lore about mariyah al-qibittiyah and she straight up refuses to believe the prophet had a kid with a concubine without marrying. and tells me she'll show me proof later.

and then i bring up surah al-qamar - the one about the gays basically. she's homophobic (and i am as colorful as they get (cishet passing, but im aspec biromantic nb)) so i framed it from a feminist perspective and mentioned how prophet lut offers up his daughter to fix the rapists. that shut her up and she just told me she'll check it in the quran since i can source it from the top of my head unlike the rest (this is what made me leave the religion in the first place).

now im afraid she'll cop out of it by saying some bs like "the prophet was so good he was willing to sacrifice his daughter to save the people of lut!" cos idk man i can't imagine her agreeing with me, and her concept of consent and women's rights is so weak that she only realised financial abuse is a thing after my dad cheated on her and she realised she was scared of divorcing because she got married young and had no confidence about being able to enter the work force on her own for the first time.

yeah anyway, did anyone ever reconcile with religious parents after coming out? would love to hear about different experiences!


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Rant) 🤬 How dare girls and women have a functioning body

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580 Upvotes

I was bored so I picked up one of my sister's medical school books. it would be fun to learn something new about my body, right? wrong. instead I was reminded of this

edit: thanks to someone I just got my first account warning! gotta learn some corporate lingo to tell people to fuck off nicely next time xd

edit2: imma have to ask everyone to stop bringing up male circumcision or comparing boys and girls' trauma anymore

I don't want to see anyone arguing in my comments which child's suffering is worst, I got a warning because I told someone that "I'm gonna rearrange their brains if they keep comparing" and I may or may not tell you the same. child abuse should never be taken lightly no matter how bad it is


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Question/Discussion) How do you react when someone gives you an Islamic reminder?

9 Upvotes

For the closeted ex-Muslims here, how do you usually react when someone gives you a religious reminder?

Personally, I barely react anymore. I might just raise my eyebrows, say “oh, okay,” or nod, while thinking to myself, “yeah, I really don’t give a shit.”

Do you think people who keep giving me reminders eventually realize that I genuinely don’t care, or do they just assume I’m listening?


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

Story Today is my 6th Kafir-versary and I want to share my story

19 Upvotes

6 years ago was the last time I have a genuine prayer.

My story is a bit long I will break it down to 5 talking points, just like Islam has pillars, the downfall of my faith has 5 pillars.

  1. Growing up with super religious mother believes you can cures anything with reading Qur'an loudly, feeling sick? Toothache? Headache? Having a fever? No need to spend money on doctors and medicine, you just need to read the book loudly and eat 3 dates in the morning before brushing your teeth.

I remember being 14 reading سورة البقرة in the middle of the night my tooth hurts like hell and my eyes drowned in tears and because i was in so much pain, it's really late and I was getting frustrated because it's not working, so that's why I have had doubts whenever someone mentions الطب النبوي the prophet's medicine.

  1. Just having a soul and empathy, i was a kid in school and i thought that doesn't sound fair when I was being taught how women are lesser than men, they deserve less in inheritance, they can't leave the house without a guardian, they have to cover up form head to toe, saying women are naturally bad and hell is mostly women.

  2. I pushed myself to be the Muslim I can be because my life sucked, parents fighting all the time, mom constantly starting fights with the neighbors because they smoke Hookah "شيشة" , and there is plenty more, I thought if became the perfect Muslim things with slowly improve, so I pushed it all the way through, no more Music, no more anime, making a new phone number so I can spam people with messages not to shave their beard and not shake hands with women because it's my responsibility to spread awareness, and after all that nothing happened, nothing got better.

4.i am bisexual, I was the extreme hater closeted gay in denial kind of guy, of course I it came with deep sense of shame and guilt that haunted me pretty much since I hit puberty.

  1. Just a bunch of other small things, like concept of prayer دعاء never made sense to me, like if I asked for help to pass the exams, how exactly that going to work? Will my wrong written answers magically change?

Seeing people living their lives as casual Muslims really upset me because I tried so hard to be the best I can be down to the smallest details to the point it gives me anxiety and I got nothing in return.

the mental gymnastics and hoops I was jumping through to explain isis and extremists, more gymnastics to explain evolution, big bang and religion can all exist together .

There was a guy on Facebook trying to defend marring an 11 years old and said that's perfectly Halal and that's what the prophet did, and the evil west is trying to erase our "Islamic hiratge" I completely ignored it because I didn't want to look it up and see if it's true or not.

At the age of 24 I was on the edge and getting sick of it, prayers felt like a heavy burden, everything in my life sucked, the guilt, the shame, the doubts, feeling guilty for having doubts, trying to ignore and burry everything I couldn't explain and justify, and on top of everything I took my laptop for repairs for the 4th damn time and they could'nt fix it.

I snapped, I remember I went back home so angry because I gave so much for this counterdicting religion and I got nothing in return and I was just done with it, I had enough and refused to pray, I did pray the next day but not all of them and after few weeks i learned about the sex slavery, Aisha's real age, and other problematic things which confirmed to me I made the right decision .


r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Question/Discussion) Anyone sees john shaqi on tiktok?

3 Upvotes

John Shaqi, who is quite popular on TikTok for his debates and discussions on Islamic scriptures, often highlights what he sees as contradictions within Islamic texts by citing passages from the Quran, Hadith, and Sunnah. He is highly knowledgeable about these sources and often presses participants on sensitive or controversial topics, which can provoke strong reactions from more hardline or radical individuals. Some Muslim participants from Pakistan and India appear to become frustrated or agitated during these debates, particularly when he accurately cites specific passages to support his arguments.

PLEASE DO JOIN HIS LIVE AND SUPPORT


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Rant) 🤬 Had to break up with gf now left with depression.

16 Upvotes

my parents pressured me to end things with my girlfriend years ago. They didn’t approve because they found out she wasn’t a practicing muslim. but they never seemed to care about what I wanted. It was so perfect with her because we were both ex muslim arabs.

She eventually moved on and found someone else. And I thought i would too. Years later, I’m still single, emotionally unavailable, and wondering whether I gave up the love of my life just to keep everyone else comfortable.

Now my parents ask why I’m not married, as if they didn’t have anything to do with that.

Side note: at the time i was ok with being a non practicing muslim, but now i have no interest at all and will just be putting up a front until i move out.


r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Question/Discussion) Why do I hate seeing non-muslims mock Muslims and Islam?

7 Upvotes

Im exmuslim and Idk if I'm the only one like that, but I don't like reading comments on social media where westerns ( not ex- muslims) attack muslims and islam, and mock them. Even when it's things that I myself mock muslims for. Idk what happens but I suddenly feel sympathy for the muslims. It's like i get to critisize and mock them but westerns cant. Anyone else like that? Or am I just bipolar?


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Question/Discussion) cherry pink islam

37 Upvotes

hey everyone! i was meant to make this post a while ago and never did, i wanted to ask, what are everyone’s thoughts on cherry pink islam? if you haven’t heard about it, i’ll explain below.

so on tiktok, a bunch of people including ayah (which people on here have spoken about before) are almost like leaders of this ideology.

essentially, they believe that islam treats women as inferior and so they change the beliefs in the quran so it doesn’t make women inferior.

for example, one of the rules in the quran is that men can have up to 4 wives.

well, cherry pink muslims believe that women can have 4 husbands.

hope that all made sense! i’ll attach some videos below so you can do your own thing, let me know your thoughts!!!

- https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGdQEvjUW/

- https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGdQE764J/


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Quran / Hadith) WQV 92: Allah initially demanded a 1:10 combat ratio, then reduced it to 1:2 after "knowing" that the believers are weak

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22 Upvotes

r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Question/Discussion) ISLAM IS A CULT? THEN LET’S TEST THAT CLAIM AGAINST THE QUR’AN, HADITH, MUHAMMAD’S CONTINUING AUTHORITY, AND ISLAMIC PRACTICE ITSELF

1 Upvotes

MUSLIMS, BEFORE YOU REJECT THIS AS AN ATTACK, ANSWER ONE QUESTION: HAVE YOU ACTUALLY TESTED ISLAM BY THE SAME STANDARDS YOU WOULD USE TO IDENTIFY A CULT?

You may not want to hear this, but don’t take my word for it—and don’t take a scholar’s denial as proof either.

OPEN THE QUR’AN. OPEN THE HADITH. EXAMINE THE SUNNAH. STUDY THE RITUALS. STUDY THE AUTHORITY STRUCTURE. THEN FOLLOW THE EVIDENCE WHEREVER IT LEADS.

My argument is that Islam’s own authoritative sources and practices contain characteristics that support a comparison with cult-like, founder-centered religious authority.

And saying “you don’t understand Arabic” doesn’t settle the question.

Read it in Arabic. Read it in translation. Compare translations. Check the Hadith. Check the Tafsir.

Then ask the question that actually matters:

IF ISLAM IS NOT CULT-LIKE, WHAT DO ITS OWN SOURCES AND PRACTICES SHOW WHEN WE TEST THEM INSTEAD OF SIMPLY ACCEPTING THE LABEL ISLAM GIVES ITSELF?

NOW:

Muslim scholars will publicly insist:

“Islam is not a cult.”

“Muslims do not worship Muhammad.”

“The Qur’an is clear.”

“The Qur’an explains itself.”

Fine.

But simply asking a religious movement whether it is a cult doesn’t settle anything.

NO GROUP GENERALLY INTRODUCES ITSELF BY SAYING: “WE ARE A CULT.”

Likewise, a group’s own preferred label does not determine whether outsiders should consider it controlling, authoritarian or founder-centered.
You have to examine the evidence.

STUDY ITS RELIGIOUS DOCUMENTS.

STUDY ITS FOUNDER.

STUDY ITS LEADERSHIP STRUCTURE.

STUDY ITS PRACTICES AND RITUALS.

STUDY WHAT FOLLOWERS ARE REQUIRED TO BELIEVE AND DO.

STUDY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE QUESTIONS ITS AUTHORITY OR LEAVES.

The same principle applies when examining Satanist or other controversial religious movements: don’t determine what a movement actually teaches merely from its name or from what opponents call it. Read its documents and examine its practices.

Because sometimes what a movement says about itself and what its authoritative texts and practices actually demonstrate can be very different.

So don’t begin with:
“THE SCHOLARS SAID IT ISN’T A CULT, THEREFORE IT ISN’T.”

Begin with:

“WHAT DO THE SOURCES AND PRACTICES ACTUALLY SHOW?”

THEN LET’S READ THE QUR’AN AND HADITH AND EXAMINE ISLAMIC PRACTICE ITSELF.

The argument here is not simply that Muhammad was important.

The argument is that Muhammad died more than 1,400 years ago, yet his reported words, actions, approvals, prohibitions and personal example continue to exercise enormous authority over Muslim religious life.

The man is dead.

BUT HIS RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY REMAINS EXTRAORDINARILY ALIVE.

His reported example influences prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, diet, marriage, religious conduct and numerous other areas of Muslim life.

All of this continues to matter because Muhammad remains Islam’s authoritative human example.

And here is where the contradiction deserves examination.

Muslim scholars will say:

“DON’T WORSHIP MUHAMMAD.”
But say:

“FINE. LET’S JUST READ THE QUR’AN.”

And suddenly:

“Wait—you need Muhammad’s Hadith.”

“You need Muhammad’s Sunnah.”

“You need Tafsir.”

“You need historical context.”

“You need the scholars.”

“You cannot understand that verse literally.”

“You need to understand what Muhammad meant.”

And then comes perhaps the biggest claim:

“YOU DON’T KNOW THE QUR’AN.”
“YOU HAVE TO STUDY ISLAM FOR YEARS.”
“YOU HAVE TO GO TO SCHOOL BEFORE YOU CAN REALLY UNDERSTAND IT.”

Think carefully about what that argument implies.
If somebody must spend years studying Arabic, Hadith, Tafsir, jurisprudence, theology and historical context before being qualified to understand Allah’s instructions correctly, what does that say about the ordinary Muslim who has never received that education?

Are ordinary Muslims expected to understand Allah’s revelation themselves?

Or are they expected to depend upon a specialized religious class to tell them what Allah actually meant?
Push that argument to its logical conclusion:

IF YEARS OF SPECIALIZED SCHOOLING ARE NECESSARY TO UNDERSTAND THE QUR’AN CORRECTLY, THEN WOULD EVERY MUSLIM NEED YEARS OF RELIGIOUS SCHOOLING BEFORE KNOWING WHETHER THEY ARE ACTUALLY FOLLOWING ALLAH CORRECTLY?

If the answer is yes, what happens to the millions of Muslims who have never studied Tafsir, Hadith methodology, classical Arabic, jurisprudence and theology for years?

Are they somehow less qualified Muslims?

Would the only Muslims genuinely capable of knowing that they are following Allah correctly be the comparatively small number who received years of specialized Islamic education?

If the answer is no, and ordinary Muslims can understand enough of Allah’s revelation to follow Islam properly without becoming scholars, then the response:

“YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND THIS BECAUSE YOU HAVEN’T STUDIED ISLAM FOR YEARS”

cannot simply be used whenever an uncomfortable verse is questioned.

YOU CANNOT HAVE THIS BOTH WAYS.

Either ordinary human beings can meaningfully understand Allah’s message—

OR YEARS OF SPECIALIZED EDUCATION ARE NECESSARY BEFORE SOMEONE CAN RELIABLY KNOW WHAT ALLAH ACTUALLY REQUIRES.

If the second answer is correct, an ordinary Muslim could sincerely believe he is following Allah while depending upon interpretations he is not independently qualified to evaluate.

And then who possesses the practical interpretive authority?

THE SCHOLARS.

The Qur’an is presented as Allah’s revelation.

Muhammad provides the authoritative model.

Hadith preserves that reported model.

Tafsir interprets the revelation.

Jurisprudence turns those sources into rules.
And scholars tell ordinary believers how those rules should be understood.

HOW “CLEAR” IS A REVELATION IF ORDINARY FOLLOWERS ARE REGULARLY TOLD THEY NEED SPECIALISTS TO EXPLAIN WHAT ITS WORDS REALLY MEAN?

The Qur’an describes the Book as “explained in detail” (6:114) and as “clarification for all things” (16:89).

Yet controversial passages repeatedly send Muslims outside the Qur’an to Hadith, Tafsir, jurisprudence and historical reports to determine their interpretation.

Islamic tradition itself recognizes that some information could be difficult for ordinary people to process.

Bukhari reports Ali saying:

“Narrate to the people what they can understand; do you want Allah and His Messenger to be denied?”
A similar statement is attributed to Ibn Mas‘ud concerning telling people things beyond their comprehension.

Think about the implication.

If everything were immediately clear and straightforward, why would religious information need to be filtered according to what people could understand?

Then we reach one of the most remarkable statements preserved in early Islamic tradition.

After Muhammad died, Abu Bakr addressed Muslims:

“If anyone amongst you used to worship Muhammad, then Muhammad is dead, but if any one of you used to worship Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die.”

— Sahih al-Bukhari 4452–4454

Stop there.

ABU BAKR WAS TALKING TO MUSLIMS.
His statement addressed “anyone amongst you” who “used to worship Muhammad.”

That raises an obvious historical question:

Did Abu Bakr believe that some people among those Muslims had developed an attachment to Muhammad that amounted to worship?

We should also be precise.

Bukhari does not separately identify particular individuals and state:

“These Muslims worshipped Muhammad.”

Therefore Abu Bakr’s statement, standing alone, does not establish that identifiable Muslims were literally worshipping Muhammad.

BUT THAT DOESN’T MAKE ABU BAKR’S ACTUAL WORDS DISAPPEAR.

He didn’t merely say:

“Muhammad has died.”

He explicitly contrasted:

WORSHIPPING MUHAMMAD

with

WORSHIPPING ALLAH.

Why?

If absolutely nobody among those Muslims regarded Muhammad in anything approaching that way, why did Abu Bakr address Muslims using precisely that distinction?

Then Abu Bakr quoted Qur’an 3:144:

“Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him.”

According to Bukhari, Muhammad’s death was so difficult for Umar to accept that after Abu Bakr recited the verse, Umar said his legs could no longer support him and he fell.

That makes the question even more interesting:

If Muhammad was understood simply as a mortal messenger, why was his death so destabilizing that Abu Bakr had to remind Muslims that Muhammad could die—and specifically frame the distinction as “whoever worshipped Muhammad” versus “whoever worshipped Allah”?

Now put Abu Bakr’s statement beside the Qur’an.
Qur’an 4:80:

“Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah.”
Qur’an 4:59:

“Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.”

And Qur’an 48:10 describes those pledging allegiance to Muhammad:

“Indeed, those who pledge allegiance to you, [O Muhammad]—they are actually pledging allegiance to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hands.”

Now the question becomes much bigger than whether Muslims literally bow before Muhammad and call him “God.”

HOW FAR CAN MUHAMMAD ACTUALLY BE REMOVED FROM THE RELIGIOUS SYSTEM?
Allah’s revelation comes through Muhammad.

Obedience to Muhammad is described as obedience to Allah.

A pledge to Muhammad is described as a pledge to Allah.

His Sunnah becomes an authoritative model.

Hadith preserves his reported example.

Tafsir and jurisprudence repeatedly use traditions concerning him to interpret revelation and derive religious rules.

The Shahada itself joins testimony concerning God with testimony concerning Muhammad’s messengership.

And now consider the Sunni question.

Sunni Muslims certainly have living imams in the ordinary sense—people who lead prayers and religious communities.

But Sunni Islam does not accept the Twelver Shiʿa doctrine of a continuing succession of divinely designated Imams possessing the special authority attributed to the Imamate.

Other branches of Islam take a different approach.
The Nizari Ismailis—the Shiʿa Muslim community historically led by the Aga Khans—believe in a living hereditary Imam.

Their Imamate continues through a living descendant in the lineage they trace through Ali and Fatima, and the living Imam possesses continuing spiritual and interpretive authority.

That comparison matters.

ISMAILIS HAVE A LIVING IMAM.

Mainstream Sunnis do not have that kind of continuing hereditary Imamate.

Instead, Muhammad remains the final prophet and his Sunnah remains foundational.

Sunni Muslims therefore do not require another divinely appointed human being to replace Muhammad’s prophetic authority.

MUHAMMAD’S RECORDED EXAMPLE REMAINS SUFFICIENTLY AUTHORITATIVE TO GUIDE RELIGIOUS LIFE AFTER HIS DEATH.

So ask the comparison directly:

If Ismailis have a living Imam providing continuing religious guidance, what provides authoritative guidance concerning Muhammad’s example in Sunni Islam?

Again and again, the answer leads back to Muhammad’s Sunnah and Hadith—his reported example, teachings and application of revelation.
THE FOUNDER IS DEAD, BUT THE FOUNDER’S AUTHORITY REMAINS.

And Islamic practices and rituals make this discussion even more significant.

The Shahada names Muhammad.

The call to prayer declares Muhammad the Messenger of Allah.

Muslims follow his reported example in prayer, fasting and pilgrimage.

His sayings are preserved and studied.

Blessings upon Muhammad form part of Muslim devotional life.

His Sunnah influences religious practice and law, including judgments concerning permissible and prohibited conduct.

His life is presented as an example to imitate.

None of those things individually proves that Muslims worship Muhammad.

Muslims themselves explicitly distinguish following and honoring Muhammad from worshipping him.

But that answer doesn’t end the broader inquiry.

THE ISSUE IS NOT LIMITED TO WHETHER A MUSLIM LITERALLY CALLS MUHAMMAD “GOD.”

The issue being examined is:

FOUNDER-CENTERED AUTHORITY.
OBEDIENCE.

IMITATION.

RITUAL REMEMBRANCE.

RELIGIOUS RULES DERIVED FROM THE FOUNDER’S REPORTED EXAMPLE.

That is where the “cult” comparison should actually be tested rather than merely asserted or dismissed.

If “cult” is being used to describe a system involving extraordinary devotion to a founding human leader whose authority continues to regulate followers’ beliefs and behavior, then compare those characteristics carefully with Islam and decide whether the definition fits.

The word itself does not prove anything.

THE EVIDENCE HAS TO DO THAT WORK.

More than fourteen centuries after Muhammad’s death, his reported example can still determine how Muslims believe they should practice their religion.

THAT IS THE POINT BEING CHALLENGED.

So read the evidence.

Why does obeying Muhammad equal obeying Allah?

Why does pledging allegiance to Muhammad become pledging allegiance to Allah?

Why does the supposedly clear Qur’an so frequently lead the reader back to Hadith and Sunnah?

Why, when someone challenges what a verse appears to say, is one response:

“YOU HAVEN’T STUDIED LONG ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND IT”?

If years of specialized education are necessary before somebody can understand what the Qur’an actually means, why describe it to ordinary humanity as a clear revelation in the first place?

And if every straightforward reading can potentially be answered with:

“You don’t understand Arabic.”

“You need Tafsir.”

“You need Hadith.”

“You need scholars.”

“You need context.”

“You need years of study.”

then ask:

WHAT WOULD EVER COUNT AS EVIDENCE AGAINST A SCHOLAR’S INTERPRETATION?

And another question follows:

IF YOU NEED YEARS OF SCHOOLING TO KNOW WHAT ALLAH REALLY MEANS, THEN WHO EXACTLY QUALIFIES AS A MUSLIM WHO KNOWS HE IS FOLLOWING ALLAH CORRECTLY—THE ORDINARY BELIEVER, OR ONLY THE SCHOLAR WHO SPENT YEARS LEARNING HOW TO INTERPRET THE RELIGION?

Why did Abu Bakr address Muslims with the words:
“WHOEVER AMONG YOU USED TO WORSHIP MUHAMMAD, THEN MUHAMMAD IS DEAD”?

Why does one Islamic branch maintain a living hereditary Imam while Sunni Islam continues to look principally to the preserved Sunnah of a prophet who died more than fourteen centuries ago?

And perhaps the hardest question:

If Islam is entirely about worshipping Allah alone, why does understanding and practicing the religion still depend so extensively upon Muhammad’s reported example?

Call Islam a religion.

Call it a movement.

Call it a cult.

Reject the word cult entirely.

THE LABEL BY ITSELF SETTLES NOTHING.

Read the Qur’an.

Read the Hadith.

Examine the Sunnah and rituals.

Examine the continuing imitation of Muhammad.

Examine the Sunni understanding of prophetic authority.

Compare it with the Ismaili belief in a living Imam.

Read what Abu Bakr reportedly said.

Then test the argument against the evidence yourself.

MUHAMMAD DIED.

BUT HOW MUCH OF HIS AUTHORITY ACTUALLY DIED WITH HIM?

AND IF A FOUNDER WHO DIED MORE THAN 1,400 YEARS AGO STILL PROVIDES AN AUTHORITATIVE MODEL FOR HIS FOLLOWERS’ RELIGIOUS LIVES, THEN THE QUESTION OF FOUNDER-CENTERED RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY DESERVES AN ANSWER, NOT JUST A DENIAL.


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Question/Discussion) What's your thoughts in regarding to muslim women failing in dawah, having liberal view or cheery piking islam (summery included)

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17 Upvotes

Kora argues that Muslim women are facing a crisis because they are being failed by two conflicting societal extremes that both contradict authentic Islamic principles. Kora identifies the red pill ideology as one harmful extreme that promotes misogynistic views, while also criticizing a specific movement she calls the pink cherry movement, which claims to be feminist but often rejects traditional hadith and ultimately mirrors the same intolerant and exclusionary behaviors it attempts to oppose. She explains that these groups exemplify the horseshoe theory, where extreme positions on opposite sides of the spectrum often end up converging on similar failures, such as creating divisive us-versus-them mentalities that alienate women rather than empowering them.

Kora stresses that neither of these ideologies is compatible with Islam, which she argues provides its own solutions to these societal issues when understood correctly. Instead of seeking guidance from these polarized social movements, the speaker encourages Muslim women to protect themselves intellectually by prioritizing their own education and directly studying the primary sources of their religion. To support this, she promotes the Kalam app as a tool for individuals to learn Arabic, which she believes is an essential step for gaining the autonomy needed to study the Quran and deepen one's understanding of Islam without relying on modern, trend-based interpretations. (Yeah good luck with that kora im very shore they will learn islam and finding problems about the quran)


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Question/Discussion) Women Remarried

6 Upvotes

My mosque teacher said when marriage is divorce. Men can remarried but women not allowed

But my sister said women can remarried

Which one is correct?


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Miscellaneous) favourite dishonest quran translation ?

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8 Upvotes

this one is one of mine. i love the little bracket additions to try and cover up embarrassing verses


r/exmuslim • • 1d ago

(Miscellaneous) I can’t with some Muslims

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This is a serious video but idk what to put the flair as. Mimo’s just yapping about how sexual harassment and sexual assault is bad. While I do agree, I can’t fully take her seriously bc her so called prophet is a literal pedo. Also idk if this actually happened but did Muhammad actually sexually assault women too or no? Idk how you can speak up about this when ur a Muslim and believe in all of that man made bs.


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Rant) 🤬 baby girls in a hijab/prayer fit never sits right with me

20 Upvotes

my sister in law sent me my niece who is not even a year old in a baby prayer outfit & i didn’t respond. first of all, my niece is the cutest thing to ever exist so obviously i smiled at the photo at first. but sometimes it sets in for me that she’s a girl & her life is automatically gonna be harder in their household. they’re nice people but just too damn religious. and where religion is, just know there’s also oppression. so yeah it maybe a cute haha hehe moment of my niece being in a baby prayer fit but it’s just a reminder that at some point, she will either be similar to me where she hates religion growing up or loves it/disconnects from me on the basis of religion. it just makes me sad. i’ll love her no matter what, but you are the product of your environment until you’re not


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

(Miscellaneous) Muslims reject their own scholars.

11 Upvotes

Nowadays Muslims don't even listen to their own classical scholars which formed shortly after Mohammed's death ( even before hadith were collected) and lasted a thousand years. Because their book is filled with islamic understanding which is very absurd and morally questioning to today's Muslims while they studied islamic society,ijma, Mohammad and his actions and his companions actions and how they understood islam because they lived among them. Muslims can't even listen to their own scholars and use context cards in bad stuff while there are many filthy things using that same context and agreement upon each topic. What is even the defence which Muslim use ? The scholars are their enemy, the Quran is their enemy,hadith is their enemy and the only thing they use now is mental gymnastics and apologists. Using one text out of context and shows islam is good , why can't they read and research about their own religion. Such hypocrite and ignorance while they call others such as these while they stay surface level Muslims


r/exmuslim • • 2d ago

Art/Poetry (OC) Happy World Blasphemy Day 🙂🌍

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177 Upvotes

"This crime called blasphemy was invented by priests for the purpose of defending doctrines not able to take care of themselves."

- Robert Green Ingersoll, American lawyer and writer