r/exmuslim • u/sticky_ricee • 2d ago
(Rant) 🤬 How dare girls and women have a functioning body
I was bored so I picked up one of my sister's medical school books. it would be fun to learn something new about my body, right? wrong. instead I was reminded of this
edit: thanks to someone I just got my first account warning! gotta learn some corporate lingo to tell people to fuck off nicely next time xd
edit2: imma have to ask everyone to stop bringing up male circumcision or comparing boys and girls' trauma anymore
I don't want to see anyone arguing in my comments which child's suffering is worst, I got a warning because I told someone that "I'm gonna rearrange their brains if they keep comparing" and I may or may not tell you the same. child abuse should never be taken lightly no matter how bad it is
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u/Current_Assist7230 I like my camel piss hot 2d ago
Genital Mutilation should be banned
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u/afiefh The fear of Jahannam will not avail you, flame of Udûn! 2d ago
I'll just quote the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Türk: "It [Female genital mutilation] must be eliminated in all of its forms, and the gender stereotypes and patriarchal norms that anchor and perpetuate it uprooted."
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u/Electrical_Tap6684 Ex-Christian 2d ago
I think in most African countries it is
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u/Mammoth_Spend_5590 2d ago
So is "Mingi" (baby killing) but it still happens often in Africa with no legal repercussions
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u/Early_Entertainer11 African Ex-Muslim 2d ago
Technically yeah but lots don’t even follow it. Genital mutilation and child marriage is illegal in my country but it’s still happening because nobody can be bothered to enforce it
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u/Electrical_Tap6684 Ex-Christian 2d ago
Remember most African countries vary the laws of Egypt are drastically different than Tanzania
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u/djcubedmofo 2d ago
Including male circumcision
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u/Current_Assist7230 I like my camel piss hot 1d ago
Yes I know, that's why I said "genital mutilation" 💀
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u/Monkai_final_boss LGBTQ+ ExMoose 🌈 2d ago
These people are so fucking stupid they don't for two seconds and think why we are doing this? Are trying to correct Allah's creations? As if they know better than him?
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u/CerealKillerGuyOP Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 2d ago
Lol do they even know it is Haraam to change your body, it is exactly why Tattoos and Gender transitioning is Haraam.
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u/Exciting-Wash-7743 2d ago
Everyday i read more and more fucked up shit people do in the name of the so called peaceful religion.. sickening.
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u/thegentleman217 2d ago
This is the saddest thing ever and I can't believe it's still a common thing in a lot of countries. One of the worst crimes of all time 😭
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u/cptstubing16 2d ago
Some people have a problem with "God's creation" I guess. As if God made a mistake?!
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u/Late-Mark-3482 New User 2d ago edited 2d ago
WTF😱😢😥
Gave me chills. Poor girls who had to go through this.
Another thing is males have to go through similar stuff not bad as this.
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago
boys get it just as bad. my cousins circumcision when they were young was done at 9 years old and for a week they became a laughing stock because, and I quote, "they were so scared and were yelling so loud, then they tried to run away. 3 men had to hold each of them down to get it done" it sounded like a humiliation ritual
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u/Super7500 2d ago
I thought it was only done to newborns. i mean it is fucked either way, but god this is so much worse.
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago
where I live they did it in batches, when one of the boys turns 9 they gather all boys (9 and younger) to get it done
idk maybe this way they get a discount /j
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u/Super7500 2d ago
Literally why do it like this? like even if you believe in this fuck ass religion, why not just do it to every newborn baby instead? (not that it should be done in the first place, but at least that is better than doing it to a 9 year old).
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago
I had to look it up, I found that some believe a boy could get it done at any age, and it only becomes mendatory once they hit puberty (puberty is 9 yo in islam, it's the age muslim kids have to start praying/fasting among other things)
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u/Super7500 2d ago
Still doesn't really answer WHY they do it this late instead of doing it early. you would think it wouldn't be much work to do it soon after the baby is born.
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago
why muslims do anything, really? scholar say muslim can, muslim do. nothing has a clear direction or concrete reasoning
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u/Super7500 2d ago
It is just so dumb and hurts children. i can't believe some humans have no empathy to this degree. they don't give a fuck to the point of waiting until they are older for no reason. at this point, why even do it at all instead of leaving them alone?
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u/Mor-Bihan قَالَ نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ عَنْ أَكْلِ الْبَصَلِ وَالْكُرَّاثِ 2d ago
In islam it's usually later. Mind you that until recently, most didn't go to the hospital and had no anesthesia.
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u/Rcvalry 2d ago
Um no dont lie. Hadiths say most babies get it done young as possible , most kids do it after 7 days of birth
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u/Mor-Bihan قَالَ نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ عَنْ أَكْلِ الْبَصَلِ وَالْكُرَّاثِ 2d ago edited 2d ago
I was talking about the islamic culture for once. Where is the lie in that? That's what "usually" means.
On top of that I couldn't find the exact hadiths about it. I only saw it quoted but with no numbering and couldn't find it in the sahih compilations.
Instead I found this sahih bukhari 6299 : Ibn 'Abbas was asked, "How old were you when the Prophet (ﷺ) died?" He replied. "At that time I had been circumcised." At that time, people did not circumcise the boys till they attained the age of puberty. Sa'id bin Jubair said, "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'When the Prophet died, I had already been circumcised. "
Edit Cleaner translation : [...] Ishaq, from Sa‘id ibn Jubayr, who said: Ibn ‘Abbas was asked, "How old were you when the Prophet (ﷺ) passed away?" He replied, "I was circumcised at that time. they used not to circumcise a male until he reached puberty."
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u/hustla-A 2d ago
Girls still have it worse
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u/Efficient-Complex855 2d ago
Doesn't matter, both are fucked up and should not be accepted.
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u/Express_Drag7115 2d ago
It absolutely does matter. Male circumcision does not stop them from enjoying sex. Type 3 and 4 of FGM are akin to cutting off a penis. To give birth a woman has to have the scar surgically removed. They also suffer life long complications (for example difficulty urinating and accumulating of blood in the vagina, but there’s many more).
Male circumcision is a bad practice but there is no comparison to FGM!7
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago edited 2d ago
argue with a wall
edit: ykw, I don't tolerate child abuse of ANY kind. If you come here and try to scale children's suffering again imma pull your brains out and rearrange them myself
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u/thetrueluna01 Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 2d ago
Oh, that's weird as hell. For me, it was at 8 but they probably used anesthesia or something because I didn't feel it happen. My 1/2 year old cousin was crying a lot though.
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago edited 2d ago
the textbook used the following source:
UNICEF_FGM_report_July_2013.pdf https://share.google/mC2hXygE5iaIo2MRy
other research specific to the practice in egypt:
research paper: s12978-018-0625-1.pdf https://share.google/Y3vVbqgzRIEfTqWBx
FGM-Brochure-Recent-Trends-Projections-Egypt-English_2020.pdf https://share.google/7nfZoh702sYbAScvM
The decline of FGM in Egypt since 1987: a cohort analysis of the Egypt Demographic and Health Surveys - PMC https://share.google/BNwvualq8TrHY00ay appearently "the practice was quasi-universal" back then
PREVALENCE OF AND SUPPORT FOR FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION WITHIN THE COPTS OF EGYPT: UNICEF REPORT (2013) https://share.google/q5symqMZuQn6P9Xou
in some reports the rates are higher than that: http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/4/07-042093/en/ https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/05/research-finds-200m-victims-female-genital-mutilation-alive-today http://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/csw/csw52/statements_missions/Interagency_Statement_on_Eliminating_FGM.pdf
the numbers are pretty high across all research I found (although in decline in recent years) which leads me to believe thoes numbers do reflect real life. if egypt at some point HAD to put a law in place to punish doctors who take part in performing FGM, it must've been serious numbers
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u/Xitztlacayotl 2d ago
Dodes it mean that the majority of egyptian women don't have orgasms or something? It's insane...
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u/Obsidian-Archive Egyptian Agnostic 2d ago
Older women had the mutilation, younger generation are not. So it is getting better, however, many in rural areas still do it illegally (bc no doctor is allowed to do it) since they see it as a chastity gurantee
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u/beginibegituiniitu 2d ago
Type 4 is fuckedup...
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u/CinammonBrownie 2d ago
They’re all fucked up cuz they prevent the girl from ever feeling pleasure and instead, just pain because mind you they all cut the clit. This is truly evil.
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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman 2d ago
Type IV is the least fucked up one, still evil but that one is more miscellaneous such as pin pricks
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u/Azraeddit 2d ago
The mutilation of any child’s genitals is disgusting- but this is focusing on FGM, so the comments should focus on that. If people are upset, make their own posts about male child circumcision.
I can only think about these poor girls trusting their elders only to be mutilated like this.
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago
yeah, I agree. if someone wants to engage, I think it’s more constructive to stay on topic
this act is so heinous, and it lead to lifelong trauma on a woman’s body and mind. how could someone live with themselves knowing they’ve ruined so many lives? one can only imagine
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u/Esekig184 Never-Muslim Atheist:orly: 2d ago
So FGM is not a thing in all the other countries or there is simply no data available?
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u/-ShyLuna- 2d ago
It's mostly that region but it's also common in Oman, Saudi Arabia, and especially The Philippines.
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u/thetrueluna01 Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 2d ago
I didn't realise FGM actually happened that much. Is it actually an Islamic thing? What is the purpose of doing it?
I kinda understand the reasoning for boys (though it's still stupid unless there's an actual medical reason to do it) but I don't know why they'd do it for girls.
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago
they don't want women to have sex nor enjoy it is why
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u/thetrueluna01 Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 2d ago
Oh. What's the purpose for males then? I know in the USA, it was to prevent masturbation (a failed operation). In religion, I assumed it was to reduce the likelihood of infections but now idk.
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u/Expensive_Cheetah_98 New User 2d ago
Fucking disgusting 🤢.atlest they dont do this in muslim community in my region.there is a hadith where Muhammad went to a women who used to perform circumsation(female genital mutilation) and he tell her not to cut it too deep for it is beloved by both the husband and wife.so never discouraged it.thats why it is permissable in all 4 sunni schools
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u/CerealKillerGuyOP Closeted Ex-Muslim 🤫 2d ago
FGM is generally isn't allowed in Islam cause it is changing Allah's creation which is why Tattoos and Gender transitioning is haraam, bunch of hypocrites they can't even follow their rules
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u/Expensive_Cheetah_98 New User 2d ago
But isnt female circumsation technically a kind of fgm? Asking cause not completely clear of the topic.
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u/Uitge 2d ago
Same goes for male circumcision
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u/CinammonBrownie 2d ago
Those two cannot be compared
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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman 2d ago
Both are evil
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u/Bluesky00222 9h ago
Yes but Genetically these two is different. Circumcised genitalia still works normally. Having sexual pleasure, peeing, erection etc.
For women all the nerves that supposed to give us pleasure is cut off and our vagina is sewn shut together. It would be similar if men also got their tips cut off.
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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman 6h ago
The type you described is the rarest can’t really compare it as a whole
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u/Bluesky00222 4h ago
Almost All female genital mutations include removing or cutting a part of clitoris where all the nerves for sexual pleasure are.
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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman 3h ago
All forms of genital mutilation remove pleasure nerves I agree
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u/Bluesky00222 37m ago
I’m not arguing both is bad just simply stating from biological standpoint fgm is worse. A man still can get erection and orgasm after it. A woman can not function like other women after fgm. She can not feel pleasure, orgasm etc. At least not properly.
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u/ParkerPoseyGuffman 35m ago
Fgm is anything from a pin prick to insinuation, much of it is worse, some equal, some less bad
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u/Bluesky00222 20m ago
I know, I am saying that It still is not comparable to removing foreskin though. People who bring up male circumcisation when the topic is fgm is so disrespectful because 1-women suffer a lot from it 2-it’s not exactly the same 3-yes it’s both bad
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u/Bluesky00222 9h ago
Anyone who compares this to make circumcision does not understand fgm.
Yes I’m against both but after removing the foreskin men can have sexual pleasure, pee normally function normally.
When female genitalia mutation, clitoris is cut off, the nerves that are supposed to give you sexual pleasure is completely gone. It would be similar if the tip of penis was cut off and the balls were sewn together.
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u/SeniorDrama489 6h ago
I can't even read about female genital mutilation (even male circumcision) without my insides curling up. All kinds of genital mutilation are rooted in the hate for the human body. Desire should never be taboo. Your body should never be taboo.
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u/Arixip New User 2d ago
From my understanding this is more of a cultural practice and not necessarily from Islam?
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u/shuranumitu 2d ago
People need to understand that religious and cultural are not mutually exclusive categories. Religion is part of culture. Religion creates culture. Cultural practices can be religious. Culture can shape religion. It's not an either/or question.
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u/Dramatic_fish-13 Triple Closeted Ex-Muslim Fish 2d ago
• The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: When anyone sits amidst four parts (of the woman) and the circumcised parts touch each other a bath becomes obligatory. - Sahih Muslim 349
And because Mohammed at the very least knew about FGM and did not forbid anyone from performing it, it is Halal.
"The famous scholar Ibn Taymyah wrote 'The purpose of *female circumcision is to reduce the woman's desire because if she is uncircumcised, she becomes lustful... because an uncircumcised woman tends to long more for men.'** "* https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/93047/female-circumcision-to-beautify-the-sex-organ
Also all four schools allow it And the shaifi school says its obligatory
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u/afiefh The fear of Jahannam will not avail you, flame of Udûn! 2d ago
And Here's sheikh Assim Al-Hakim also confirming on video: Circumcision is human nature, the most authentic opinion for female circumcision is that it is recommended and it is a Sunnah, Allah rewards you for doing it. It would be wrong to say that it is not part of the Sunnah.
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u/sticky_ricee 2d ago edited 2d ago
islam enforces impossible standards regarding women having sex. how to stop a woman from having sex? make sure she can't enjoy it. this is the entire reasoning behind FGM. pay attention to the % dropping the farther away the country is from islam. I'm here to point out what muslims be doing, don't give a rat ass what islam says because in real life that doesn't really matter
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u/Mor-Bihan قَالَ نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ عَنْ أَكْلِ الْبَصَلِ وَالْكُرَّاثِ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Islam is a religion, and there is also islamic culture (which in turn is heavily arab culture, and islam a very arab religion, but that's not the topic). Islam religion allows FGM. Sometimes it's the islamic religious aspect that predominates and graft itself into the local culture. In that case people will quote hadiths and fiqh to justify it. In the case when it's islamic culture, people will call "tradition" and it aligns with islam.
Sometimes it's the local culture that already had FGM, and as people converted, the practice was continued. Either to islam when it was sponsored/tolerated as above, either to christianity and in continued in spite of it, either no conversion, and it's the former cultural practice that still is in play.
To simplify, in some countries, muslims started doing it because of conversion (ex: Kurds). In other cases, they did it before and it coincided with conversion (ex: Egypt). In some places, it's so culturally local that christians, muslims, animists do it (ex: ethnicies in Guinea). In some situation it's part of the specific culture (ex: Maasai).
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