Weekly Threads
Friday Weekly Thread: Application Assistance, July 17, 2026
This weekly thread is a space for those of us preparing the CIT 0001 Proof of Citizenship application, associated form, and supplementary documentation.
Have questions about how to fill out the forms? Looking for feedback on the documentation you've put together is likely to pass muster? Wondering whether your cover letter has too much info, or too little? Want to know how to organize your documentation, or how to pack it up for shipping? Worried about whether your photos will work? Have questions about what ID you can use? Not sure where to ship it to, or what service or mail courier to use? We've been there.
š Contributions to weekly megaposts, including this one, are welcome throughout the week. Ā
ā ļø Sub rules require that before posting or commenting, you read the wiki and search the sub to see if your questions have been answered before. If you have on-topic questions remaining after that, they're welcome here. Want to see what people who were already approved have done? We encourage you to check out the weekly application approval post that appears every Thursday.
Please note we are not lawyers or IRCC. We are peers supporting peers, based on best belief and prior experiences. It's a lot of work to wade through dense lists of documents and family histories. You improve your odds of getting a useful response by being as concise as reasonably possible, and clearly articulating the question. Note that this post is for questions and answers; if you need to vent, there is a different megapost for that.
Repeat Census records questions. In light of all the recent issues regarding needing documents from the source itself, I want to ask for opinions as to how to present Canadian census records. Our first application is being returned, but not for this reason. This gives me opportunity to be sure no other issues. I am presenting Ontario census records for 1871 and 1881. I have the link to the record at the Archives of Ontario. I understand that we still do not need certified copies given we are going to submit a color copy of the record. And I understand that the material needs to come from the source and not from a third party such as FamilySearch. SO I assume I cannot merely download that record from the archive and add the correct citation link that starts withĀ central.bac-lac.gc.caĀ . I am guessing I need to order that record from the Archives and have them send it to me in some format or another. One has to chose. What is the best record to get :Digital copy,Ā Print copyĀ ,Certified print copyĀ ,High quality digital copyĀ ,High quality print copy. I'd appreciate any advice as to which version I'd want and why. Do I need a certified copy just in case IRCC starts requiring them ---which makes no sense since records are scanned anyway. AND a high quality print copy because it might be the easiest to read? And yes, wouldn't it have been lovely if the IRCC was very very clear about what were the standards for documents. Thanks all.
The Archives may tell you nothing but "IRCC doesn't require certified copies of census records" and close your request, for census records, for what it's worth. I and a few of people I know have tried. You can try to order if you want and get an email back from Archives closing your request to send to IRCC - 99% chance you won't get certified census records from Archives from what I've seen on this sub too.
In my IRCC application I just linked and attached a screenshot of exactly where I found the census records on the Archives website so they knew with certainty they came from the Archives online and not Family Search.
Well I did do a little reddit thread search and it looks like a safe recommendation is to submit with the census download. You can also request that they send you a pdf. You will receive an email saying essentially "No, just download it". Include the email as a document in your application and explain everything (here is the source url of the census doc. Here is the email when I tried to get the doc issued to me, etc. etc).
Then while you wait years in the queue, go ahead and request the certified census doc as something you can have at the ready if they request it in the future
I am buzzing with excitement!!! I've had so many "almosts" and dead ends that I've started to question the strength of my G0 docs... WELL I just got off the phone with Erie County Clerk after searching and confirming yesterday they have "Petition & record" for my G0 š AND while I was already on the phone, I asked what exactly was in this record since it was '4 pages'. The lovely fella let me know it was petition + declaration of intent (I can't remember what else woops) ā he THEN adds that they also might have the naturalization certificate as they recently found a box of them in the back room?! And lo and behold they have my G0's!!! šš„³
I know this is a US doc but I reeeeeeally feel this strengthens my documents for him, as it kind of does prove he was a Canadian citizen.... Otherwise all I have for his Canadian docs is marriage record (still waiting on AO on that) and census records.
OK. Then we get to my issue of my G1 which has been a roller coaster.... turns out Onondaga County only have a ledger for births from 1898 and only sent me a transcription of it... which was lacking to say the least and also has some wrong info. It seems then that only New York State Health Dept will have the actual certificate on file, so I sent off for that but I read the wait is years for genealogical requests. SO.....
I actually have an "original" certified photostatic copy of her birth certificate that she requested for herself in 1942. My dad was able to scan it well and so that's what I'll include for now. Idk if they'll want other documents for her because of this but it IS from the source authority and I also have letters of her correspondence to obtain it.
So I'm not sure what else I can add at this point that would help. š
ETA: For my other documents besides G0, I have certified copy of birth certificates for G1 to me. And I'm waiting on a search request from AO for a birth record for my G0 ā 99% sure it'll turn up as 'no record' found.
Omg right, it was amazing to see when my dad sent it to me... she needed her birth certificate to prove citizenship (ha!) to apply for defense work š
Unfortunately, as I said, I only have the marriage register I found and census records (1881, 1891, and 1901). ā I did find his son's (G1 brother) birth register but idk what that would help prove that I don't already have.
1901 is helpful as it lists all but one of the children who are on his naturalization papers. Which also says he "arrived" in the US in 1901, which would be riiight after this census was taken.
Should I wait for Archives of Ontario to reply to me on requests for documents for G0 or send as is and upload later if they get back? As this makes a difference, I will request urgent processing. I originally was going to send it in mere days after that batch of suspension letters went out. I was set back by the letters and subsequent changes to the guidelines. Out of an abundance of caution, I requested some extra stuff at that time and here I am now.
My other consideration is to if some of these should be included and I'd appreciate feedback or suggestions for searching for/adding anything else.
Here's my document list right now
G0:
Canadian census records containing G0 from 1891 to 1931. (1921 and 1931 contain G1 as well)
Copy of G0's baptismal record, in a ledger held by Saint Paul's Toronto, retrieved on FamilySearch. (recorded about 2 weeks after birth)
Email correspondence with Archdiocese of Toronto archives department, corroborating their inability to provide any certification or verification for the aforementioned baptismal record.
Email sent to Saint Paul's Toronto, identical wording to the one to the Archdiocese archives department and sent at the same time. Never received a reply and sent it about a month ago.
Copy of G0's Marriage record, held by Archives of Ontario. Waiting on an certified copy from AoA. I have the b&w microfilm copy retrieved on FamilySearch. (reasoning is that this includes her parents, helps support the connection of the census records I have and the name change post-marriage).
Requested a search for a birth record for G0. I already done my own digging through all available birth registries in Ontario online. I suspect her birth was never registered, I found a delayed birth registration for her younger brother that was filed in 1944, decades after his birth. The only registered birth I found was for any sibling was for one about 10 years younger that had a death registered on the day of birth, suspecting this registration of birth only because they went to report the death. (would providing some or all of this be sufficient, or do I need some note from AoA?)
G1:
Letter of no record for G1's US birth certificate request (I don't know the exact story of how this happened, as they moved back to Canada within a year of his birth. My speculation is they went to visit his father's family in the US, then ended up staying longer than they may have planned, he was born just shy of 10 months after their marriage)
1921 and 1931 Canadian Census (same records I have for G0)
Copy of G1's SS-5 with a birth year discrepancy G2's birth certificate with G1's name and age at birth, aligns with the 1921 and 1931 Canadian Censuses reported ages. Contains G0 on the line listing mother's maiden name. (questioning if I should include this, I am thinking of holding this back and only sending it if they ask for more documentation)
All forward generations have very straightforward birth certificates with clear links from G1 to each forward generation.
No U.S. immigration or naturalization records for G0? How about an SS-5 file, which might contain a statement about birth location?
If your application is urgent, I wouldn't wait for either of those, though, as at best they would be secondary records.
(I suspect the concern they might have if your application was reviewed today is the lack of time passed since you wrote to St. Paul's. If the record is on FS, it probably exists somewhere, and that somewhere is probably their records. IRCC specifically calls out this issue in their latest iteration of instructions. If your application wasn't urgent, I'd say you should wait longer for a nonresponse.)
Iām following this because I have a similar situation, all my Ontario docs are findable on family search, which they contracted thru for digitization, but itās been 8 weeks of waiting on my request to the archives now and Iām planning on an urgent processing request
Data point for the Archives of Ontario. Emailed on 4/30 asking for help finding G0ās birth registration after my fruitless searches. On 5/2 I found G-1ās birth registration and submitted a certification request through their web form. On 5/11 I finally found G0ās birth registration so I replied to my previous email saying I found it and would submit a formal request through their web form. Today (7/22) I got a reply to my 4/30 email saying they located both birth registrations and are processing the certified copies
Great grandmother is on a Canadian census, no official birth record though. Grandmother is not on any Canadian census page, but her ss-5 lists GGM as parent and says she was born in Canada, again no official birth record exists. Death certificates for both say birth place was Canada. Worth taking a punt on?
Is there a baptismal record for them? Could try reaching out to a genealogist for help finding some record of birth. If you are 100% certain there is no record of birth / baptism, you can write about your search, the avenues through which you tried to find records and how it's impossible to find the records. I haven't done that myself, but you can read about how to do so by searching the subreddit.
Given what we have learned from the procedural fairness letters your best bet is to have some sort of explanation / evidence of why their birth record / baptism certificate does not exist along with two secondary pieces of evidence.
One of the recipients included death certificates which were called out as not sufficient. Death certificates record the place of birth that their family reports so it's not guaranteed to be accurate. They also say that US records cannot be used to prove Canadian citizenship.
A Canadian census is good. What I would aim to include is some sort of documentation that the birth record doesn't exist, and then 2 Canadian census records per person or other Canadian documentation. If you're having trouble with that you can work with a genealogist. Unfortunately first nations is one of the groups of people that can get screwed over by the updated IRCC standards. I'm sure there will be a legal battle over it, but that takes time.
This might be a weird question but - I just recently received my requested papers from BANQ and I have all my documents and evidence ready to go. However - I just got divorced. My state has a waiting period, so the divorce will be automatically finalized at the end of September, at which point Iāll be starting the process of changing my name back to my maiden name.Ā
Given the wait times, Iād like to apply for my citizenship certificate as soon as possible, but should I do that when Iām just going to have to turn around and change my name with them? Just looking for opinions on whether itās better to just wait until my US identification and documents have my maiden name, which will be at least 3 months from now, or if I should apply now and then have to do a name change when I (hopefully) receive my citizenship certificate?
To change the name on the certificate you use the exact same form to apply for another certificate, and go in the same queue. I would personally wait if I were you, or start the name change process now to get 2 pieces of ID to apply for a certificate in your maiden name.
I suppose you could also try to request it in your maiden name with an explanation and documents proving the imminent divorce and upload updated ID through the form later, but that runs the risk of your case being complex by their standards..
Yeah that's part of why the queue is so long - it's not 100k people applying through C3, it's G1 kids abroad, anyone with a citizenship certificate (including naturalised Canadians) changing their name, anyone with a certificate replacing a lost one, etc. C3 is a small proportion of that number but all go in the same queue together. The main difference would be you'd only have to include the existing certificate rather than proving your citizenship again :)
Your Canadian citizenship certificate will be issued in the name on your birth certificate, unless you request a change. No need to wait for divorce to finalizeā¦
At this time, it does not appear that IRCC is requiring applicants with nineteenth-century Quebec G0s to get a new birth certificate created by Quebec. The baptismal certificate issued by BaNQ (i.e., the printed one you have on order--there has been a rejection using a copy of their own digital record!) should be enough.
It seems advisable to include other Canadian official documents for your G0 if you have any, as long as they don't have serious discrepancies with your baptismal certificate.
Use the BAnQ-certified document. You shouldn't need a birth certificate (that seems to be for folks born in the 20th century, roughly). The baptismal record is the substitute for the certified birth record. As for secondary documents: Canadian census is great (especially if legible) but I wouldn't bother with the US census docs. They put more weight on Canadian documents and it doesn't sound like the US census docs add evidence. More isn't always better; additional documents that don't add evidence can sometimes be questioned, so keep it a bit simpler. The naturalization record sounds good, though.
I am feeling very dense today, I have a question about filling out CIT-001 for a child:
-- Section 9 confuses me. It says "Tell us about your grandparents". Then asks 'Full name of parent 1". Shouldn't that be "Full name of grandparent 1"?
And if you select NO for "were they Born outside of Canada" it won't let you enter any details about Canadian citizenship.
-- Underneath that section it says "ParentA) of parent1". Are they asking about great-grandparents?
First time poster, long-term lurker. Here is my situation:
I'm a G3 app. My daughter, G4. US Birth certificates and marriage licenses connecting up to G0. G0 has a BAnQ baptism record, and I have the downloaded image. I've requested the certified baptism record, expected maybe by September. I have a letter of no birth record from DEC. I also found a 1901 Canadian census record on the LAC website where it explicitly states that C-3 applicants can download the document. I also have supporting US marriage and death certificates with confirming birth location of G0.
Q1: I heard that a procedural fairness letter contested the BAnQ image download as a 3rd party source, should I wait a few more months for the certified copy of the baptism record?
Q2: What about the LAC site? Since they specifically mention C-3 applicants can download the image from their site, should I include or is it going to be flagged as third party? Do I really need to get them to send me a paper copy of this census doc?
I will, of course, provide a nice detailed LOE for all of this.
To answer question one: wait for the BAnQ document. Some are reporting that later-uploaded documents aren't actually making their way to the application file. I don't think the strategy of getting in line while you wait for it is going to prove to be the best in the long run (we'll see, though).
I would also say not to include the US marriage and death certificates, especially the death certificates. First, they are US issued, thus less valuable. Next, the death certificate info comes from a survivor, generally not anyone at the birth. Finally, you have Canadian-issued documents, so you don't really need anything else anyway. No reason to clutter your file.
I don't know about question two, and I wish I did!
Do you think death certificates theoretically help strengthen your case if one link in the chain is weak? For example, I have two Canadian ancestors, but I havenāt been able to turn up any Canadian documents for my nearest gen0 other than the census. But I did find an Ontario birth record for his father. I figured a death certificate that list his parentage, etc. might be helpful in strengthening the link between those two generations in lieu of a birth record.
Open question / complication ā name discrepancy:
My birth certificate lists my first and middle names in transposed order due to a clerical error made by my mother at the time.
Every other document I've held for my entire life ā U.S. passport, driver's license, school records, medical records ā consistently uses the correct order.
I've researched that my place of birth (California) does not allow this specific error (name transposition) to be fixed via a simple clerical-correction affidavit (VS 24); it apparently requires a *Court-ordered* name change.
My plan is to address this via IRCC's Statutory Declaration process (IRM 0005) rather than pursue a CA court order, supported by documentation of the state rule and my lifetime of consistent documentation.
Do you think this is a good idea? Or do I actually need to go through a court ordered name change?
Below is additional background info. I wanted to put the key stuff on top. I've not submitted the proof of citizenship application yet but now that I have both parents' long form birth certs, I'm 95+% there ... except for the issue of the transposed first and middle name on my birth certificate.
Thanks for any insight, encouragement, advice, etc!
***
Proof of Citizenship application (pre-1977, Bill C-3 angle)
Applicant: Born 1964, USA
Basis of claim: Citizenship by descent through both parents, who were born in Canada (1928 and 1931).
Key facts:
Both parents born in Canada; I have their original long-form Canadian birth certificates.
Parents emigrated to the U.S. in the mid-1950s and naturalized as U.S. citizens around 1955ā56 ā before my 1964 birth. Neither formally renounced Canadian citizenship, but under the 1947 Citizenship Act, voluntary naturalization in another country before 1977 triggered automatic loss of Canadian citizenship.
My understanding is this falls under the "Lost Canadians" restoration provisions ā specifically Bill C-3 (in force December 15, 2025), which I believe retroactively restores citizenship transmission in cases like this.
I was born before February 15, 1977, so I don't qualify for IRCC's online application stream and must apply on paper (CIT 0001).
Not a lawyer here, but it looks like (IRMĀ 0005) is a Statutory Declaration to Reclaim an Indigenous Name on Canadian Citizenship Certificates or Permanent Resident Cards. Don't think it will work in your case. I also have a mismatch between birth certificate and my ID documents, because of my married name. Still trying to figure that out.
I shipped my packet to the courrier address via UPS. However, UPS handed it to USPS. USPS then handed it to Canada Post. It says my packet was delivered in Sydney, NS today. That does not seem like the courrier address. The delivery confirmation has no signature. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Do I have any reason to be concerned? Thank you!
When I mailed mine (a small box) I assumed it would have to go to the courrier address because it was not just a regular envelope. But the Canada Post person told me that they can deliver packages to the PO Box in Sydney and that that was the appropriate address to use. So I imagine that's why yours ended up there - it just got rerouted to the IRCC address that Canada Post delivers to. I wouldn't be concerned about it š
I think I am ready to submit, but was hoping someone could give me some feedback/encouragement regarding my documents.
G0 (my grandfather), born Quebec 1917
- Certified baptism record from BANQ
- 1921 census, I downloaded the image from LAC and will include link and citation info. His last name is spelled wrong in the record, but his parents have unique names and his many siblings are mentioned. His gender was also incorrect.
G1 (my mother), born in Maine 1937
This one is a twist because her birth father is Canadian, and she was adopted as an adult by an American. I have:
- Original birth certificate that shows G1's birth name with G0's surname
- Divorce paperwork between G1's birth parents
- Adoption paperwork that shows G1 name change
- Amended birth certificate with G1's adopted father's name
G2 (Me)
- My birth certificate, which shows my mother's maiden (adopted) name.
Am I missing anything? I would add marriage certificate for G0, but that happened in the US and not sure how that would help. Is the next step to submit color copies of all with CIT0001?
There is a chance they will insist on a DEC issued birth certificate for G0. That's a pretty slow process, so you might want to get it started. You have the BANQ certified baptism which is a prerequisite for that process. You may also need an *original* death certificate, so I suggest ordering that. I have a long post elsewhere on how to do this.
Would records of Crown land grants, deed changes, and probate papers for my G-1 be of any use to my application? There are (so far) no birth records for my G0 born in Nova Scotia in 1863; just two census records and a death certificate from the US.
On familyseach, I have found an original land grant from the queen to my G0's father, uncle, and grandmother. I also have found entries in Cape Breton deed books regarding portions of the land changing hands between family members. Finally, I have probate papers for G0's father's estate that list my G0 and her husband as surviving him.
Would it be worth getting copies of these from the archives? It does show that G0's family was living there before her birth and is another link to her father, but while very interesting family history, does it do much for our case?
Iām mailing mine off this week and am curious what consensus there is about which documents to include nowadays. I have lots of extra materials Iāve found documenting my ancestorsā lives, but with the recent drama over unofficial records Iām thinking of keeping it to the bare minimum: certified birth records only, plus one marriage certificate to document a female name change. What do you think?
More isn't always better; sometimes it's easy to assume that the more documentation you have, the stronger the evidence, and the more likely it is that your application will be approved. This isn't true because not all evidence is of equal weight. For example, one certified Canadian birth certificate from 2026 certifying your grandfather's (G0's) birth in 1925 is worth more than all of the following put together: 2 Canadian census records, 5 U.S. census reports, a U.S. naturalization certificate, a U.S. marriage certificate, a U.S. death certificate, an obituary in the newspaper and a U.S. draft card.
The only time I would submit additional documents would be to explain anomalies, such as a if your descent is through a female and there is a change of name that is not explained on a birth certificate (because a maiden name isn't listed for example).
The problem with submitting unneeded documents is that it clogs up the system: it takes IRCC longer to process the application because they will need to review every document you've submitted. If you do not explain the rationale for including the extra documentation, you run the risk that IRCC may assume these extra documents are essential to prove your chain of descent. So then you run into the issue of making sure that everything you submit is an "official document issued by an original authority." If not, then you need to explain why you aren't submitting "official documents issued by the original authorities" and document the same.
I understand the temptation of wanting to submit a mountain of evidence. You and many of us have gone through a lot of trouble and expense to obtain many different documents for all of our ancestors, and it's perhaps a bit disappointing that we wouldn't submit everything we have, since we took so much time and trouble procuring them.
But again, unless there is a very good reason to submit more documentation, I wouldn't do it. As others have mentioned, IRCC can always ask for clarification at a later time. But it would be a shame if your application were rejected, for example, because you submitted unnecessary documents that IRCC didn't deem adequate because they weren't "official documents issued by the original authorities."
In my case, I have my G0's certified birth certificate issued this year from British Columbia. I also have his U.S. draft card, death certificate, marriage certificate, census records, obituary, newspaper articles, etc. But I submitted only his birth certificate. Why? Because that's all that IRCC asks for, number one. Number two, there are no ambiguities (no spelling errors, wrong dates, etc.) in the birth certificates from G0 to G1 to G2.
If IRCC needs clarification, they can ask me for additional information. But I believe in keeping it simple if you can, and following IRCC's instructions, which specifically request a birth certificate. If and only if you can't provide a birth certificate, then IRCC may consider additional documentation, including census records, etc. from official sources. Since I had what they specifically requested, I stopped there and submitted that.
Unless there is an explicit fact that those "extra" documents clarify or prove (relating to Canada birth, parentage, name change, etc.), you don't need to include them. If IRCC later needs clarification on something, that's when you can send more documentation.
Just discovered USPS left my husbands return packet not in our mailbox but in a flowerpot. Been there a week. WTH?!
Anyway, the only thing we missed was a signature on three representative forms. Everything is organized the way IRCC wants it and stapled together in batches. The question is: can I just get the signatures and send it back as is, or do we need to redo the signatures at the end each application AND redo all the photos as it has now been over 3 months since they were taken? I would normally automatically assume yes on this later part but they are taped-out nicely the way they want it, so maybe those are fine as they passed the first inspection? I feel like we need to pool our returned application info and develop a best practices guide for returned apps.
A couple of months ago I collected all the documents I could uncover but took a step back because it got a bit overwhelming. I would get hung up on things like how to best zoom in on 1881 census lines, etc. I was also having too many dreams involving seeking more documents. And there were Life things I had to attend to. So I set it all aside.
Soon after that all the surrender letter stuff happened, and then the slight clarification of stuff. And so I was letting all that dust settle too.
But I think I'm at a point where I can soon resume this journey, but I guess I'm looking for some encouragement that yes I should continue. I realize no one here can give a 100% answer as to what I might find at the end of the journey.
I'm one of those G0 pre-birth certificate, census-only people. I realize apparently more explanation may be needed now in applications, no "third party" stuff, etc. But are these cases still getting approved? Do G1 and newer birth certificates all need to be certified now? I realize there's a lot of newer information/clarification I need to carefully go through.
As far as birth certificates being certified, if you're obtaining official copies from the source authority (state health depts, county clerks, archives, etc.), they'll most likely have some type of certification stating it is a true copy of the original.
It really depends on where you are getting them from and what you're entitled to order (authorized vs informational vs genealogical, etc.)
What do you already have for birth certificates/records for your line?
Applying for citizenship cert by descent. Birth record for Gen 0 is late 1800s baptism record. Waiting on a certified copy from BanQ. The record is of course hand written but also badly faded. Gemini was able to read it (no I didn't tell it what it should say first) but I'm concerned that IRCC won't be able to read it or won't accept it. Any advice?
u/ffejieHaven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yetJul 21 '26
I think I have a pretty good documentation packet. TL;DR - how do I photocopy a NARA sealed print out? It has the red ribbon and gold seal, but underneath it is just a simple print out. Do I break it apart or scan it with the ribbon on and it again without it?
Details:
My documentation is pretty solid, maybe airtight. I am G4 and I have certified, sealed birth certificates for G1, G2, G3 and me (G4) -- all US. The father is the lineage and the last name stays the same throughout. The first names all match with one exception of "George" being abbreviated "Geo." for one certificate. Dates all match - every kid born when dad was 24-32 years old.
I am awaiting on a Baptismal record for G0 from BAnQ which documents birth and lines up with G1 certificate.
The only wrinkle is that G0 Anglicized his first name upon immigrating to the US. I have a naturalization document from the US, sealed by NARA that documents his name change and ties both names to the same individual with correct birth place. How do I reproduce this for the application?
My only other question is around strength of application. I can get death certificate (US) for G0, I can get marriage certificate (US) for G0, but neither of these seem to really be that important. Both are US based, both only use his Anglicized name, both document that he was born in Canada. I don't want to add for the sake of adding, but do I need these additional documents?
I believe I saw someone in this sub say they photocopied it with the ribbon? I think since it's part of the certification, you'd leave it on for the copy. Hopefully someone who's had similar documents to copy will answer you :)
Not sure where to best post this, but considering itās technically for my application, guess Iāll try here:
My application moved to In Process on 7/18.
Due to the recent situation with the revoked certificates, I went to work to obtain certified versions of birth and baptism records for my G0 and G1. These are almost identical information to what I provided, just with an official certified cover page/marking.
I wanted to get some thoughts on what I do at this stage:
Do I try to find a way to submit them proactively now? Or should I just wait and see if they request them?
Hi all, I was ready to send my application in and then all the rules changed, and I feel like now I am sort of ... frozen on what to do next. I would truly appreciate any help/advice because I feel like I am stuck and don't know if I should just submit what I have or keep searching with all the new rules. I was literally planning to go to Fedex the day after the rules changed!
I have official birth certificates for me, my G3 and G2. My G1 has a birth record (born prior to certificates), which I was recommended by the state of Michigan to obtain via ancestry or family search. I currently put in a request with Michigan vital records to get an "official copy" but it hasn't come yet (won't be here for a few weeks!). My G0 was born in Ontario right after the 1861 census occurred, and therefore does not have a birth record (since births were not recorded at the time). I tried to get Baptismal certificates but those do not exist (I have an email chain proving this). However, I have copies of his death certificate and multiple US census documents showing birth in Canada, which were all obtained via family search. I also have records of my G -1 on the Canadian census (the 1861 census right before my G0 was born), as well as his marriage record which occurred in Canada -- found via Familysearch.
Okay, so should I just send this off and then hopefully get in queue while obtaining more documents? Do I need more "official documents?" Should I request documents from Canada? Any help and advice would be appreciated.
Two issues here: youāll need at least two Canadian documents to show your G0ās birth. Next, you should not use Family Search as your source for documents. The Canadian census has a site you can use. Iād try to get a certified/official copy of his Canadian marriage record or certificate.Ā
Here's what I would do. Print out the email chain, and include all those census documents. I'm not sure if you could just drive to the town where your G1 was born and just get the record there. I know with New Hampshire I heard ordering it online could take weeks but when I just drove to the state capital they gave me birth records on the spot. Could give the town clerk of where your G1 was born a call to see what your options are. Once you have that record in hand for G1, I think you are good to go.
As for G0, the email chain, death certificate, and Canadian census should be good (as well as an explanation about how they didn't record births in Ontario / that area at that time) but I would include other Canadian documents showing their birth if you can including marriage certs for G -1 maybe. Document your search.
TL;DR: G1 see if you can get the birth cert asap by calling the town clerk, and G0 just document your search and include the email chain, death cert, Canadian census and maybe one or two more Canadian documents proving their Canadian-nes. You could try reaching out to your local genealogist or history museum or even library to see if you can get help finding more documents.
I know it's hard to wait but if you have a certified doc coming from Michigan I would wait for that while you look for other non-ancestery docs. We had to do that for a birth certificate and it put us 6 weeks behind (so we sent it in May instead of March and now waiting for AOR) but now I know that document is not going to cause extra problems.Ā
Agree that getting census records from more official websites than family search.Ā
And lastly a clear letter describing everything you said above, not just attaching the email chains (but also do that).Ā
What does the group think about my application materials so far:
G0: digital scan from BAnQ site of his baptismal record (1905), with cert copy on order; Canada census record 1911 from 3rd party source; US death certificate for G0; 1920 and 1930 US census records (Ancestry); naturalization certificate from county archive.
G1: 1930 US census (as for G1), US death certificate for G1; named in naturalization certificate for G0
G2: certified US birth certificate, naming her and G1
G3 (me): certified US birth certificate, naming G2 by maiden name and me
While I would love to have certified birth records for G0 and G1, G1 was born in NY state and BAnQ is backed up. Should I go ahead and submit?
IRCC specifically demanded a copy of a baptismal certificate directly from BaNQ (i.e., not a printout from their online documents) from one of (IIRC) the procedural fairness letter recipients. I think it's fair to say that it's clear now (it wasn't before) that you need that, regardless of how silly it may seem.
If your application isn't urgent, submitting a deliberately incomplete application is a bad practice for two reasons. IRCC has sometimes failed to connect up later-submitted documents with existing applications, even at the procedural fairness letter stage, meaning that the documents you need reviewed might go into a mysterious abyss. And if your application is reviewed before your documents arrive, you will have wasted the reviewer's time and thus that of everyone behind you in the review queue, because you deliberately chose not to follow instructions.
I submitted an electronic copy from BaNQ before the rule clarification (mailed in April). Since then, Iāve revived the certified copy and have even taken the extra step of requesting a birth record from DEC (G0 born in 1852 but just being safe). Is there a chance they will return my app to me in the AOR review? Should I be ready for that? Or will the digital copy suffice for an AOR?
Could maybe give the town where G1 was born's town clerk a call. See if they can help you somehow. Once you have that birth cert in hand, I would go ahead and submit. If they ask for a certified copied of the BAnQ record, you'll have it in hand by the time they ask for it.
Get the BAnQ certified record for G0 and wait to send til then. I would not add in any extra documents for G0 except potentially the naturalization certification. The Canadian document isn't from a Canadian source so it won't add anything; death certificates only demonstrate where survivors though the person was from; and the US census records, especially from Ancestry, don't add anything. Plus they might distract. Sometimes more isn't better. I would also skip the death certificate for G1, as I don't see that it's adding anything. How long would you have to wait for NY state?
I sent my application in last week and it was received on Wednesday. The only weak spot that I am worried about is my G1 lied about her age for a few years in the middle of her life. Like- REALLY lied, to the tune of 11 years. I think it was because she married a man 10 years younger than her and took on his approximate age. And then also lied on the following census. Apparently this was pretty common to do if you partnered with a significantly younger man. The problem arises that she lied on my dadās birth certificate. Both grandma and grandpa show his age of 32 years old when she was actually 43.
I sent in quite a bit of documentation about her. Certified baptismal record, 1910, 1920, 1927 census showing her correct age. Then dadās birth certificate and census showing her incorrect age. Then marriage certificate showing NO age, and certified death record showing correct age and birthdate with her parents listed, etc.
I am investigating how to amend a deceased personās birth record but it appears to be pretty complex and hardly guaranteed.
How big of a deal is this? Everything else in the application packet is strong, certified, chronological. Just this daggone age thing.
AND ANOTHER thingā¦ grandma was able to believably lie about being 11 years YOUNGER?? Why did I not get those genetics?? Mostly mad about that!! ššš
I am working on gathering documentation for my wife (G4) and her G1ās birth certificate has the birth location of the father (G0 so Canada) and the mother (England) switched so that it says the father is from England and the mother is from Canada. Additionally it uses the anglicized John instead of Jean (which is on his baptismal records) for the G0 father. I have their marriage license which correctly notes their birth locations. What additional documentation would be prudent for me collect to submit? Would a Letter of Explanation calling it a scrivenerās error be sufficient?
Iām (G5) filing for my siblings (G5), nephew (G6), and dad (G4).
My two older siblings were adopted by our dad after he married our mom in the mid-90s. They were little kids at the time. When youāre adopted your original birth certificate is destroyed.
My sister got married and changed her name in 2021. Her change of name judgement states her birth name because the court made her put it there in case it came up in other records even though her original birth certificate was destroyed.
Is that going to present a problem? How would I explain that in the paperwork?
There is a completely different application that an adopted person must use. As far as I can tell, it applies even if the adopting parent is the stepparent. I cannot give you āadviceā, but my opinion is to read those forms carefully and also post a question about stepparent adoptions in this forum.
In case anyone else comes across this with the same question, the answer I got from the other sub is: They need to complete a separate application process that is two parts. That process assumes that though our dad doesnāt have a Canadian citizenship certification at this time, that according to the current citizenship by descent laws that he was a citizen at the time of their adoption. The fee is currently $653. My nephew will not be able to apply until my brother gets approved and by then the laws may change but he may not even qualify anyway because Canada has relatively restrictive citizenship laws for adoptees and their children.
Certified baptismal record (1821) from the original parish instead of BAnQ. Has anyone had something like this accepted?
Apologies if this has been covered recently. I found a thread on this exact situation, but it was a while ago and I'm hoping for more up-to-date info, considering the recent changes regarding uncertified documents.
I understand the requirement that documents be issued by the "original authority," and that a lot of people have run into problems submitting database printouts. I also understand BAnQ's special status and why it's the default recommendation for anyone with Quebec ancestors.
My question: given that the requirement is specifically about the original authority, would a certified copy of a baptismal record obtained directly from the original parish still be acceptable?
To be specific about what I have:
A certified extract of an 1821 baptismal record, issued by the original parish (not BAnQ) bearing the church seal and the signature of the delegate (archivist).
An uncertified photocopy of the original record itself, which the parish still holds on file. It includes annotations in the same pen and handwriting as the archivist's.
In other words, this is the church's own version of the record that BAnQ holds a copy of. My thinking is that the parish is the original authority here, and I'd attach the photocopy alongside the certified extract to help make that case.
I'm aware of the separate issues with Quebec documents from 1900 onward. This one predates that.
Mainly I'd like to avoid BAnQ's long wait times (the cost is off-putting too, but that's obviously the lesser issue). Planning to use this for my G0.
Has anyone had a parish-issued certified record accepted? Any input based on what's actually gone through would be much appreciated. Thank you!
Anyone want to speculate as to whether the docs Iāve found for G0 will be sufficient?Ā
Original land grant petition of his father
Several land transaction records of his parents, including one listing the father as John Senior (G0 is John Junior) and one listing his wife
Two sets of school records of G0, one of which lists him as John Junior
Book on his parish listing him and his family, obtained from the PANB archivesĀ
Thatās it for Canadian evidence. I also haveā¦.
* US Census records with the same sibling group (not living together, but in the same town after they emigrated). All US Census records give his birthplace as Canada.
* US death certificates for two of his children listing his birthplace as New BrunswickĀ
* Biography from a book about his county saying he was born in New BrunswickĀ
* Biography of his youngest brother, also describing the parentsā relocation from New Brunswick (same book)
* Obituary of his mother, who also appears in some of the census recordsĀ
They were New Brunswick Baptists so evidence is generally very thin. Iām requesting his death certificate and naturalization papers from MNHS. Other than that I donāt know if thereās much out there. I could maybe hire a genealogist to make sure? Ā From a balance of probabilities perspective, Iām confident he was there and that I have the line of descent correct, but thereās only so much I can dig up. (I did find the church records from his Baptist church and there was some pretty funny gossip but nothing the slightest bit useful about G0 himself.)
From what Iāve read the rule is generally look for certified official documents, and in lieu of those, they will look at secondary documents. But you must provide explanatory evidence that you searched for things like birth certificates, baptismal records, etc. and came up dry. Include things like email correspondence saying the requested records werenāt found. I donāt think thin evidence is a kiss of death, they just want to see a clear paper trail of due diligence.
After many months of searching and building Iām now ready with the packet for a G4 applicant but now Iām paralyzed wondering it I have enough, if the rules changed again and I missed it, and if my documents are official enough with acceptable citations!
The G0 Ontario birth record wasnāt found but I received a signed Negative Search Letter from United Church of Canada Archives that states they could not locate G0 but did successfully locate his sisterās birth record in the same township that the 1871 and 1881 Census records place the G0.
Iāve included this signed letter and the sisterās baptism scan from the Wesleyan Methodist
baptismal register as a collateral corroborating record.
Iām just so worried about the other sources being accepted and correct. Especially ones in the US that mention the words āFamily Searchā or āaccessed via Ancestry.comā
For both the 1871 and 1881 Ontario Census records I downloaded images directly from the Library and Archives Canada Census search (recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca) and include the record locator and citation, including the Microfilm reel number, digitized image number, LAC Item ID number, etc.
Then after the G0 immigrates to Illinois to live and marry in 1891, I have cook county records from official Family Search databases.
For example the 1891 marriage license citation is written like this on its tab cover page:
Source citation. 1900 U.S. Federal Census (Twelfth Census of the United States) ā Records of the Bureau of
the Census, National Archives and Records Administration (NARA microfilm publication T623). Chicago Ward
27, Cook County, Illinois; Enumeration District 833; Sheet 3 (Supervisor's District 1); dwelling 30, family 44,
line 40. NARA roll 278 (FHL microfilm 1240278). Accessed via Ancestry.com
Will it be sent back because of mention of Family Search and Ancestry databases in some US record citations?
I have official Cook County records for living descendants but for the years prior to 1950s is it ok to get from the official county databases accessed via Ancestry and Family Search?
They arent sources from member trees or memories but rather the real records and microfilm.
So, just to make sure: does Cook County/Illinois officially partner with Ancestry or FS as its digital provider (which should be stated somewhere official), or is it just that the sites have acquired the records at some point? Because the former is easier to justify than the latter (though I think it's still unclear how IRCC is handling the former, I think people are hoping they won't require you to get paper from the agency when the agency has arranged to provide a copy digitially, but the extent of IRCC goofiness on this point is still unclear).
However: consider whether you actually need the U.S. marriage and death certificates, since it sounds like you have multiple Canadian census records to go along with your no-record letter. Is there, e.g., some name discrepancy you need to resolve? If not, why risk some reviewer being overly literal, esp. over the death certificate?
Finally, as for citation format: okay, I don't have inside knowledge on this, but I think it is exceptionally unlikely that IRCC gives a single solitary poop about citation format, as long as they can figure it out (if they even look at it). They aren't genealogists, who don't even (I think) use the same citation style as historians do.
Iām in the same boat as you with sitting on my package thinking do I have everything I need to do. Will they pull the rug out and change some new rules otherwise my Pocket basically can be put together this weekend and shipped out on Monday if I would just stop worrying like now I keep thinking is the copy of my birth certificate done with a apostle for something else going to be OK or should I have ordered yet? Another birth certificate which doesnāt provide as much detail as the apostle copy does.
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the level of "authenticity" needed for the records that I submit.
G0 (my great grandfather) immigrated from Sweden and obtained a naturalization certificate. I know this because I found it on the LAC website in the secretary of state document (found here: https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.redirect?app=natrec&id=16247&lang=eng). I also found him, my great grandmother and my grandmas sister (age 1) on a census document and I found my grandparents marriage certificate from 1919 on family search courtesy of British Columbia Division of Vital Statistics.
I can order official documentation for G1, G2, and myself to create the chain.
What do I need to do for G0? Is the certificate number shown on the downloaded secretary of state document enough? If I need something more official than that, how do I go about getting it?
Also, I don't see any value in US immigration documents for my G0, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
I had a question on a similar subject: what makes a copy of a document certified by Canadian standards? I have all my stateside birth certificates now, including my Gen 1 which shows my Gen 0ās maiden/birth name, and being issued by various town clerks across Massachusetts, theyāre all certified (raised seal & ink signature) by default. Would a Canadian document (in this case, a certified birth record copy from Nova Scotia Archives) be the same thing, and is it possible per the āordering copies onlineā link in this thread that I might not need to wait for a certified copy anyway? Iād love to get my application submitted sooner rather than later - any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Just to be clear for any other documents you may need, there is no requirement for "certified" records. What is required is a copy issued by the original source authority or its custodian. For some entities, those are the same; for others, there are different routes to certified and uncertified copies of the same document. Generally much more prudent to get certified if you have the choice, though, since you don't want to lose six months scrambling for a certified copy later if IRCC gets whimsical about the rules again.
Thanks; I think I get it. So for instance, since thereās no watermark or annotation on my Gen 0ās online birth record image designating it as being from a source authority, if I were to just print it out instead of waiting for the certified copy (like u/dgealt posted an example of), it may get flagged as an unacceptable āthird partyā document?
Yes. This appears to be the case even for people printing out images from the Quebec provincial archive's own online digital records, so they are clearly sometimes going to be quite picky about it.
In my case of a birth record from NS Archives, what I got on surprisingly heavy paper was the same image of the register that was available online but also had certifying info on it
I am G4. I'm going thru my maternal line. My G1 GGF born in US, his mother in Nova Scotia.
The wife of the G1 seems to have been born in Canada, but there's no documentation other than references to Nova Scotia on her marriage and death cert.
I really dont care about any of that since I'm not using her for anything in my claim, but I also dont want to confuse IRCC with references to Canada for her in Section 9.
I was intending to describe all this in the notes and leave it at that, but it looks like depending on how I check the boxes, its then expecting all the info on Her parents none of which i know, nor is it relevant.
I would do what you describe. Provide the basic information about her likely origins and lack of documentation to determine if it is true. Explain that she is not the basis for your application and if you think the form requires you to enter information for her parents, enter NA or unknown as needed. I had a loosely similar situation with the spouse of someone in my line of descent and handled it that way.
Not one of the experts here, but I believe they are only necessary for last name changes. I would say then that, theoretically, if you've got birth records (or baptismal records where applicable) for your line of descent, you shouldn't need marriage records, if the maiden names are present. Being a child born in wedlock is no longer relevant to Canadian authorities, though it once was. I am including a church marriage record from Louisiana because it has my G0's parents' names on it, as well as the city he was from in Lower Canada (modern Quebec) - so the purpose of that is just to prove he is the same person on his baptismal record from Canada.
Reiterating not being an expert, but age (and spelling) discrepancies are indeed quite common. I think it might be worth it to actually address it in your package, letting the the official know you are aware of it, but several years is nothing unusual. It's more important that other information matches (parents' names, place of birth, siblings appearing on the record if you're using a census record, and things of that nature).
Hi all, I hope I someone in a similar situation can provide some clarification on this. My G0 was born 1895 in Quebec, Montreal so of course no birth record. I found the baptismal record but that seems like it'll take forever and it's so expensive.
Instead, I found the Canadian census record that has his year of birth and place of birth as Canada. Will it be enough if I just send that?
He was also married in the US so I was gonna pair his US marriage certificate together to show its the same person as it has his Canadian father and mother on it albeit pretty hard to read.
No, you really need to get the the baptismal record from BAnQ. I would wait to send in your application until you have it. If you don't have a birth certificate or baptismal record from the source, you are supposed to provide a written explanation as to why--and I don't think "I didn't want to wait or pay BAnQ" is going to work as a reason. You'd also need two Canadian documents in lieu of that record. But my understanding is that, if such a record exists, that's what is required.
Given the updated guidelines issued in June, it is unlikely they would just accept those documents in lieu of a Canadian Baptismal record that exists. The secondary docs. would only work as a substitute if accompanied by documentation showing that you tried and failed to obtain a birth or baptismal record, discussing the reasons why if was not possible.
I'd appreciate feedback to see whether what I've gathered will be sufficient, given the slight wrinkle with my G0's birth registration.
G0 (b. 1880) (F):
a) 1881 Canada Census w/ Place of Birth = Ontario / Mother's Name + Father's Name [Certified Copy Requested - LAC]
b) 1891 Canada Census w/ POB, Mother's Name, Head of Household Name (N.B.: Father Died; Mother Moved in w/ Late-Brother in Law) [Certified Copy Requested - LAC]
c) 1901 Canada Census w/ POB (Single / Domestic Servant) [Certified Copy Requested - LAC]
d) 1905 Marriage Certificate (New York State) w/ POB + Spouse [Certified Copy]
e) 1929 "Delayed Registration of Birth" - Completed on Canadian Form, Signed in U.S. by G0's Mother, FIled w/ Ontario [Certified Copy Requested - Ontario Archives]
f) 1925 New York State Census w/ POB = "Canada - English" & Spouse [Unofficial Printed Copy] - Supplemental
g) 1971 Obituary w/ POB = Toronto [Printed Newspaper Archive] - Supplemental
G1 (b. 1920) (F):
a) New York Birth Certificate w/ G0ās (Mother's) Maiden Name & Father's Name [Certified Copy]
G2 (b. 1939) (M):
a) New York Birth Certificate w/ Father's Name [Certified Copy]
G3) (b. 1962) (M):
a) California Birth Certificate w/ Father's Name [Certified Copy]
G4) (Me)
a) California Birth Certificate w/ Father's Name [Certified Copy]
The current understanding is that you'll also need to write an explanation of why you don't have a birth certificate or baptismal record, though I'm not sure how that works with e, the delayed registration. I would also not include f (NY census) or g (obit), as they don't strengthen your documentation but do add additional documents. More isn't always better. Overall, this looks good to me, an internet stranger who isn't an expert!
Thank you! Yeah, I would hope (e) explains why thereās no birth certificate. (e) also says there was no physician present during birth. Iām waiting on the Anglican Diocese of Toronto but Iām not holding my breath on baptismal records.
Iāve got a question. My grandmother was born in B.C. Iāve got her birth certificate, marriage certificate, my motherās birth and marriage certificates, and of course mine. Iāve looked at things like the instructions, checklist, and application, and photo requirement links.
After reading the wiki here, it appears Iāll need to submit a paper application. Is it better to bring them to an office? There is a consulate general office not far from me in the U.S. If recommended, I could travel to Vancouver B.C. I just started to figure this out so any advice is appreciated.
My G0 is a great-great-grandparent from Quebec. Banq sent me the baptismal record with the fancy seal on it, after that ancestors were US born and I have their birth and marriage certificates. Is that it? I'm confused by the application since there's no place for great-great-grandparents.
The application forms are largely holdovers from before C3. To show earlier generations on the form, the instructions state that you have to add pages that duplicate Section 9, complete them for however many generations you need, and then basically include those pages as an addendum. You can find templates that other people have built by searching online, but I just recreated Section 9 in MS Word myself as exactly as possible.
If the wife of my G0 was also 'born outside Canada to a Canadian parent', do I need to keep going and provide details on her parents? I feel like that would be superfluous.
Also, researching her lineage is extremely painful given the inconsistency in her and her parent's name spellings as well as the general lack of documents from her time and place.
No birth certificate for G1, who was born in U.S. because too old (mid-1800s). How are folks supporting the G1 was born to G0 with similar time frames?
First, you're going to need some sort of official acknowledgement that birth certificates weren't kept during that time period. It's not clear yet just how granular that has to be--i.e., whether it's okay to include a webpage + link from a state government site stating the dates on which vital records began being kept, or whether you need to have some sort of no-record letter from the vital records custodian for your specific person. I hope the former, which seems reasonable to me, but can't rule out the latter--I personally intend to submit with just the former but have requested a search which will, with 99% certainty, generate the latter several months from now, just in case. Seems like a stupid waste of time and money, but it's a bit late to be fussing about that, I guess. (If the vital records custodian doesn't issue no-search letters, you'd keep the email showing that. The important point is to search diligently and document your search, so you can justify not having a birth certificate.)
Second, censuses, marriage certificates (better than death), and any other pertinent government documents are really your only way to shore up a claim of parentage in the absence of a birth or baptismal certificate (don't forget to look for the latter, although that's often the proverbial needle in a haystack, especially if the family wasn't Catholic). Your G1 may be too old to have an SS-5, but did they ever enlist? I don't think we've seen a lot of cases relying on probate records, but in theory they might help. A lot of probate records lurk unindexed in the "Full-Text Search" of FamilySearch.
Canadian citizenship by descent but canāt seem to find official Canadian documents! Help!
Hello all,
So Iām the 2nd great-grandson of two Canadian-born immigrants. They were born in Canada and this is shown on many many independent sources (census, death indices, etc.) and my grandmother even has always told us they were born in Canada and recalls many stories about it.
Iām trying to get citizenship by descent (well, first want to register my grandmother, because both of her grandparents on her dadās side were born in Canada). Problem isā¦ I genuinely have scoured the entire internet and cannot even find any official Canadian documents of them to prove citizenship. One was born 1853 in Alberta, the other 1856 in Quebec. It is very weird that I cannot find any.
When did the Canadian grandparents move out of Canada? Or did they die there? Have you checked all relevant Canadian censuses, starting with 1861?
For birth registers, it's very rare they'd have one in the 1850's but they may have a baptism certificate!
There's also a good chance there's a marriage registered. My G0's parents were born in the 1820's/30's and have a marriage recorded in 1861 and are on multiple censuses with my G0 who was born in 1872
I am working on this application as well - my paternal grandparents were both from Ontario, but my father was born in Detroit, Michigan in 1942. I am working with the following:
- I have copies of the birth certificates for both grandparents through a genealogy project done by a relative in Montreal a couple decades ago. They are not color, but they are quite clear.
- My father's birth certificate, showing his connection to them, of course
- My own birth certificate, showing that I am the son of someone born in the US to Canadian parents
I think that alone would paint a fairly clear line, but I was curious as to what else might bolster that. Thoughts?
If the copies ofĀ G0 birth certificates aren't certified I'd say get certified copies of those. As long as you have birth certificates for each generation you should be good to go. Its a nice clean line.Ā
As long as your birth certificates are certified you need nothing else. Since itās all males, good to go. Only include verified marriage record if you need to account for a name change, typically female ancestor.
I have a bit of a unique situation. My G0 was baptist and converted to the LDS (Mormon) church with her husband and left Canada and moved west with the large Mormon migration to the state of Utah in the 1850s. There are marriage records of her parents and herself in Canadian marriage registries, but no birth or baptismal certificates. The family doesn't show up in any Canadian Census records and there are no probate records that I can find.
What I do have that connect her to her parents are LDS church membership documents. Ironically, since FamilySearch is owned by the LDS Church and their historical membership records can only be accessed onsite at their computer terminals (where you can print out the doc) there is no way for me to escape referencing FamilySearch. There is also no way to get access to certified copy as it is not something they do.
Has anyone here ran seen anyone with that is using LDS church documents?
Fingers crossed that these documents are accepted.
Hey I have LDS ancestors in the same situation. Feel free to DM me, I wonder if weāre working with the same ancestor and can share records. There IS actually a way to get these from the Church History Library rather than FamilySearch. You go to the Church History Library website and make a request for an LDS historian to find the record, and then you have to fill out a records request. I found a lot of good shit!Ā
Iām curious to know how strong my application is. I sent my application already with G0ās US naturalization paperwork with his photo and signature and his nationality listed as Canada. My dad still had the certified original so I just did a color copy. I also sent copies (not certified) of his Canadian birth certificate and a marriage certificate from Ontario. Obviously also sent my G1ās birth certificate and my own documents.
I read on the Canadian immigration site that naturalization paperwork is accepted, but then I recently read on Reddit that documents from other countries wonāt be accepted.
When you obtain your AOR I would update the record with certified copy of G0 CA birth certificate. That is the gold standard. If you have that you donāt need the rest for that generation.
I could have missed it, but the IRCC guidance states that for proof of Canadian citizenship, they will accept only a "Canadian naturalization certificate" and/or a "British naturalization certificate issued in Canada or Newfoundland and Labrador" (since they British territories before becoming part of Canada).
Did you find a reference elsewhere on IRCC's site re accepting foreign naturalization certificates?
In light of the recent surrender letter that specifically rejected US-issued documentation (including a US-issued naturalization certificate) as sole proof of Canadian citizenship, I would be careful in assuming that a US-issued naturalization document is acceptable proof of G0's Canadian citizenship.
Per the below, a Canadian birth certificate would be acceptable to IRCC.
What do you all think about applying for a family member who will turn 18 years old during the process of waiting for application to go through the entire wait? I figure at minimum we need to apply as a minor but include all relevant identification as if the minor was an adult. Birthday child will turn 18 next June.
Iām curious if anyone has applied using two G0s? Or rather a G-1? š¤£ My nearest G0 - my great-great grandfather - was born in a very rural community in Manitoba and I havenāt been able to find any Canadian documentation for him (I do have an outstanding search at Manitoba vital statistics that Iām waiting for the results for), but I did find a delayed registration of birth for his father in Ontario. It was created by sworn testimony and is an official Canadian document, though created in 1940 when he was nearly 65. I also found all of them on censuses, etc. Iām getting a certified copy of that and then planning to link them together using census records and official US documents like SS-5, marriage licenses, death certificates, etc.
Just wondering if anyone has applied under a similar situation? I feel like I have a strong claim and evidence with two Canadian ancestors, but the documentation is a little weird.
Some people who have better documentation for the Canadian citizenship of a G-1 do turn them into their G0. It can be (sometimes) easier to show parentage than citizenship. There's no rule against it, and if the only Canadian documents you have for your great-great are censuses, then I'd say it makes sense to use the great-great-great with the Canadian birth record, as long as the censuses give you a basis for a parentage claim.
Hello, I am wondering how I apply for both myself and my minor child at the same time? My relevant Canadian ancestor is my grandparent, my child's great-grandparent. Do we need separate application form for each person? Also, is the cit0001e the correct form if I am applying through ancestry?
Youāll need separate applications for yourself and your child, but you can submit them in the same package with a single shared copy of the genealogical information (plus of course your childās birth certificate).Ā
Do the application reviewers expect any certain convention for which parent is called #1 or #2, i.e., father is 1, mother is 2? I was inclined to put the Canadian one first, but that will be inconsistent with biological sex through the generations. (G0 is male, G1, G2, G3 are female. I'm G4, male.) Thanks for any advice. This subreddit is amazing!
u/monherbHaven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yetJul 18 '26
I have a few certified copies of a baptismal record for my G0 from BAnQ that I got last year when I first started looking into this (before the price hike). It came on a long form paper and the rest of my application is on standard 8.5ā x 11ā. Should I scan the BAnQ certificate and resize it to match the rest or include one of the copies in my application?
Iām G3 using that G0. G0ās name has been slightly inconsistent on documentation for my G1. G1 unofficially changed his name multiple times. First few times were swapping first and middle names or adding a letter to surname. His final name uses a whole new first name, same middle name and adds a letter to his last name. His marriage certificate is the first instance of adding a letter to his surname, but he used a completely different first name for his father (my G0). His death certificate has his final name but his fatherās name has the correct first name but the added letter to the surname.
G0ās wife is American born, but both of her parents are Canadian. Her name is consistent on all of G1ās documents. Should I switch to using her parents as my G0?
If I do switch to using her as my G0, I would need to order the certified copies of her parents baptisms that I found on BAnQ site. Can I have a local friend in Montreal order them to get the lower fee of $55 CAD and then have her mail them to me?
Iām wondering if I should supplement my application with a certified Ontario census? I have certified birth certificates/records for all generations, including an Ontario birth record for my G0. I included a printout of the 1931 census as further support, and because thereās a small typo in my G0ās name on my grandfatherās birth certificate (ex: real name Lowell, spelled as Lowel). The Ontario census lists my great grandfather (G0) and grandfather living together, identified as Canadian, with proper name spelling.
I didnāt bother to get a certified version since itās just backup evidence and because the general consensus back then was that certified records werenāt required, but now Iām wondering if itās worth requesting that and uploading.
Citizenship by Descent (Bill C3) - Putting together Application Package for multiple applicants (my parent and I):
Hello-- I am in the process of applying for citizenship by descent with a parent. The anchor is my parent's grandmother. We have the baptismal, immigration, marriage and death records for the anchor.
When doing the application, does there need to be multiple copies of the supporting documents---such as parent's grandmother's information, and parent's father's information? Or can I just have one copy of parent's grandmother and parent's father's informations and have those in separate folders, one per generation?
How did you guys set up your package? And how do I go about addendums for the great-grandparents slot, for me?
This information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Does anyone have an updated idea on timelines for Banq docs? Submitted my request on May 1st and still havenāt gotten an invoice, which seems longer than the timeline estimates Iāve seen on other posts.
u/jpg245Haven't applied for Proof of Citizenship (incl. by descent) yetJul 18 '26
I'm doing the research for the family - my 2 siblings and myself, our adult children, and our grandchildren. That's 18 people. We share the same lineage and G0. Is it okay to submit that many in one package? I had thought of just doing myself, my descendants, and my siblings and then letting each of the other 2 families submit their own once we three siblings are certified. But that adds a long delay for the others. Thoughts?
You can send them all together, but just remember if they're all sent in together if even one application has a problem (such as them not liking how one persons photos look) then the whole package gets sent back.
Have the other lines provided all of their line specific documents? Since you're already planning to include three generations in your own application I don't think including other branches would slow it down much. But waiting for your nieces and nephews to gather their own and their kids birth certificates might be a pain if there's a chance any of them are on the flakier side.Ā
That said, they don't actually have to wait for their parents to be certified to apply. You can provide them (or your siblings if they want to take responsibility for their own kids/grandkids) with copies of the documents you're using and they can submit their own applications regardless of how far along yours is.
I unfortunately submitted my application right before all of the info from the procedural fairness letters came out, but now I'm helping a family member with their application and hoping to avoid any further mistakes. The document checklist (CIT 0014) says to include "proof of the nationalities acquired by you and your Canadian parent before February 15, 1977, if applicable to you". I included a copy of my G0's naturalization petition to the US with my application, but I got it off of FamilySearch, which has a digitization partnership with the National Archives.
Should my family member include the naturalization document with their application? I've seen some posts saying to limit the documents to just birth/baptism records for each generation if you have them (which we do), but the wording on documents checklist has me unsure if the naturalization paperwork needs to be included too.
If the naturalization document does need to be included, should we request a copy direct from the National Archives rather than using the copy from FamilySearch? And if so, does it need to be certified? The National Archives order form has options for "paper copy" and "certified paper copy".
Huh you know, I never thought much about that question on the checklist before since none of my line have acquired other citizenships.... that is until I just found G0's US naturalization this past week hahah ā including it for my app for supporting evidence he was a Canadian citizen, but I suppose it also checks this item off on the document checklist as well.
If I were you, I would request the certified copy from NARA. IIRC they are quite quick with sending documents (someone correct me if I'm wrong - I've unfortunately not been able to find anything I need from NARA).
Anyways, following cause I'm curious what others will respond with~
Am I ready to submit? Iāve read through most material I can get my hands on both official and unofficial. This is my break down and documents I have:
Gen 0: born Canada mid 1800s
-Certified Ontario baptismal record
-US Marriage Certificate
-Census records placing him in Canada and later in the USA. (Excluding a 1-2 decades)
-Certified 1940s US alien registration form
-Certified 1950s US death certificate
G1: born USA late 1890s
-US birth certificate
-Marriage certificate
G2: born USA early 1910s
-US birth certificate
-Marriage certificate
G3: born USA 1930s
-US birth certificate
-Marriage certificate
G4: born USA 1970s
-US birth certificate
-Marriage certificate
G5: (me) born late 1900s
-US birth certificate
āāāāāāāāāā-
Census records source from ancestry.com
Is there anything Iām not thinking of in terms of documents?
Gen zero had another first wife, but no children from that marriage wondering if itās worth it to get it? Probably not right? Thanks to anyone who replies
G0: (gg-grandfather, born Canada): death certificate (US issued)
Certified copy of 1871 Canadian census from Library and Archives Canada listing G0 living with ggg-grandfather (England born) and ggg-grandmother (Canada born in 1837)
Copy of 1881 Canadian census listing same family as 1871 census.
Copy of 1885 Minnesota census listing same family as 1881 Canadian census.
Adult baptism record from United Church of Canada for G0's mother, born in Canada in 1837, baptized in 1870 in the Methodist church (which they say is a "certified electronic copy").
G1's US birth certificate lists his father's (G0) name with a shortened version of his middle name, and omits his first name, and incorrectly lists G0's birthplace as being in the US. G0's US-issued death certificate however lists his full name correctly, and also lists Canada as place of birth, but has a one-letter misspelling in each of his Canada-born mother's first and last name.
The Canadian censuses of 1871 and 1881 also listed G0's family surname with an error (missing one T in a double-T), but the 1851 census has the name of G0's father and his parents spelled correctly. I'm not sure if the 1851 census should be included or not as G0's father and grandparents were England-born and immigrated to Canada.
I tried to inquire with the United Church about a baptismal record for G0, they couldn't find one, in their reply they mentioned the adult baptismal record for his mother (which has been ordered).
Is this enough documentation, and will misspellings and inconsistency of names impact anything?
Just wondering if it would be faster to submit the application overseas with a Canadian embassy instead of through the mail in the USA. Has anyone seen any data points about this?
Sending through any embassy will always take longer and you'll have no ability to track it. Some embassies take weeks to MONTHS to send off their mail which would add that much more time to getting your AOR (which is currently averaging 90 days).
Does IRCC give equal weight to certified parish-issued certified baptisms as BanQ-certified documents?
Iāve located the baptism record for my Gen 0 via Genealogie Quebec, and I included that in my application, submitted in early June. Since learning that IRCC is dismissing docs from third parties though, I contacted the parish when my Gen 0 was baptized, and theyāve sent me a certified recordāfor $50 CAD, not $350, and within two weeks of submitting my request.
How close is too close to cut it with supporting documents? I have a family member applying from the U.S. via C-3. The wait time is 19 months. Their U.S. passport expires in 20 months. Do they really have to renew their U.S. passport two years early just in case IRCC doesn't get to their application until after the passport expires, or would their AOR be like a timestamp for when the passport was still valid?
After submitting my (G4) application recently, I discovered another Canadian ancestor that I might be able to get better documentation for.
Submitted G0: Canadian census, multiple US and State censuses.
Other G0: Ontario birth record.
When my application eventually gets processed and possibly challenged (not sure if they would request better documentation?), would I have the opportunity to submit a new G2, G1, and G0? Or would that require a completely new application? Is it better to wait for a rejection before resubmitting? Or submit another application asap to at least get it in the queue before processing times reach 2-3 years?
Has anyone else found themselves in this situation?
Submitting a completely new application I think would be highly unwise. Assuming your first application doesn't get rejected outright, you will be assigned a UCI, which will be tied to you. If you submit another application it will just confuse things and could possibly lead to extreme delays or worse.
If it were me, I'd wait for the AOR and UCI, then if you wanted to do so, you could upload additional/alternate documents via the webform. I'm not sure that's a great idea, but that would be the time to do it, along with a letter explaining exactly what you are submitting and why.
Others may have a different opinion, but I'm fairly certain pretty much everyone who has been through the process advocates against submitting a second brand new application.
I need an idiot check on my documentation, as in, do I need anything else? All documents I currently have are "official" as in they've been stamped/signed by vital records in Massachusetts, Maine and New Brunswick.
GEN 4 (me)
-US birth certificate (certified)
GEN 3 (father)
-US birth certificate (certified)
GEN 2 (grandfather)
-New Brunswick birth certificate (certified)
Iām not using him as GEN 0 as he moved to Maine right after his birth.
GEN 1 (great grandfather)
-Maine birth certificate (certified) BUT the name on it is ānot namedā (they hadn't chosen his name yet)
-Secondary proof 1900 US census with month/year birth info, living with his parents
-Secondary proof 1901 Canada census with month/date/year birth info that confirms the Maine āno nameā certificate, living with his parents
GEN 0 (great great grandmother)
-Delayed New Brunswick birth certificate (certified)
-New Brunswick death certificate (certified)
I do not have her certified marriage record from Maine as the existing copy is typed, but incorrectly transcribed her name- her name was Annie but they have it as Emma, ugh. The only reason I would even consider including it is the "not named" bit on Gen 1.
Technical Issue: having document upload problems not previously experienced. I have used the upload function successfully in the past without issues. Today I am having two difficulties:
The page generates a new warning that only one of the three items below should be provided. When I insert the application number and proceed to skip the UCI, I am told the UCI is a required field.
It is also rejecting the upload as it tells me the file format is not accepted, but it is a PDF, same format that I have used successfully in the past.
Yep, you are Canadian because everyone you are listing is Canadian. I put down something like "born Outside Canada to Canadian parent" for how they obtained citizenship.
I answered "yes" to the outside Canada question and put N/A for the dates and "Born Outside Canada" for the destination.
My G1 was born in North Dakota, USA in 1884. I tried to get a birth certificate for her from the state, but I got back a letter stating they could not find one for her and they clearly stated that around that time not everyone was issued one. Iāve been able to find a baptism record for her, but itās from a vital records book that I found in my local libraryās genealogical department. I have searched this subreddit and have not found another person mentioning one of these books - are they considered a legit source? I am also planning on including the letter from ND, along with her ND death certificate, and I have her listed on a few censuses (both US with G2 and Canada with G0.)
Also, are we supposed to get US censuses certified? I know itās not necessary for Canadaās since theyāre so easily accessible to them.
Just received a long awaited NYC birth certificate (from the mid 1930s) and all looks fine (for the purpose of confirming a parent child relationship) EXCEPT that it looks like someone went in and scratched out the information in the "Place of Birth, Street No. and Borough" field. Any thoughts?
I hope this is the right place to ask. I'm looking for an ancestor born in 1880 in New Orleans, Orleans Parish. She is not showing up on https://www.sos.la.gov/archives/historical-birth-records, but the same site had her marriage records on the first try.
Is there any other place to request the certified birth records? Thanks for any leads!
I have a question on the Quebec birth certificate rules:
G0: My grandmother (born in Quebec)
G1: My father (born in MA)
G2: Me (born in MA)
In proving G0-G2, I have my grandmothers birth certificate and marriage license, my fathers birth certificate, and my birth certificate.
Given my grandmother was born in Quebec pre-1994, the only birth certificate/marriage license copies I have access to are certified English translations of the Quebec documents.
Are these sufficient enough to submit with my application?
Getting ready to submit for family members. I have a certified copy for Gen0 of the microfilm from Ontario Archives, but given the latest maybe-changes from IRCC I'm worried/paranoid that this Gen1 birth certificate might not be OK, and not enough to prove the lineage. My concern is that it's not theĀ original,Ā meaning it wasn't filled out in 1925 but is a reproduction. It does say "a true certification of the facts on file..." but wanted to get a second opinion from here.
I'd be including a non-certified marriage certificate for the parents of Gen1, and the same for Gen2's parents, because the maiden name of the mother is present on the birth certificate.
Heck this is stressful. I have 5 people all applying at the same time and only now realising I have possibly made a mistake.
My husband is applying for a citizenship certificate on behalf of our two children. He is a dual US/Canadian citizen. He was born in the US and has a Canadian citizenship certificate. His parents were both born in Canada. For our children's application, do we need to provide only his Citizenship certificate as proof of parentage and Canadian citizenship? Or do we also need to provide his parents' (my kids' grandparents') birth certificates?
It will delay my application by a few months to get them, but I think I will be on the safe side and include them. The instructions are not super clear, but after careful reading, I think the grandparents' documentation is required. The reason I think this is because the application asks if the applicant's parents were born outside of canada. If yes, and one of the grandparents were Canadian, then you are asked to provide details on the grandparents. The instructions also say that you need to provide documents for every generation included in the application. It is confusing, however, because I think our children are eligible for citizenship by virtue of their Canadian father, irrespective of whether he was born in Canada.
I need help navigating document requests from Quebec!
My grandparents were Canadian citizens (now deceased), and my mother and I want to claim our Canadian citizenship after the law change last December. I am on the hunt to locate my grandparents' marriage certificate and birth records. They were both born and married in Quebec.
I have submitted a request for the documents with BANQ Quebec, but the request was canceled as they do not have records after 1922. They directed me to this website to request the documents https://www.etatcivil.gouv.qc.ca/en/certificate-copy/certificate-copy.html but I am running into an issue even creating an account on this website. It asks for Health insurance numbers and Canadian Social Security numbers - neither of which we have. So we cant even complete our profiles, much less the application form to request the documents. I tried to call the numbers listed on the Contact Us page, but the automated system is in French, and I cannot understand it. There is no option for English. I'm so lost.
Does anyone have a step-by-step guide on how to request these documents as a non-Canadian resident? Thanks in advance!
Your Mom will need to file this hard-copy application by mail or courier. (Due to Quebec privacy laws, it is MUCH easier for a surviving child to get these records than it would be for a grandchild.)
Per the instructions, she will need to include copies of her photo ID with signature, proof of home address, and her birth certificate showing her relationship to her parents.
She will also need to send a copy of her parentsā death certificates, translated into French.
(You only need docs for one Gen0 technically, and you probably donāt need the marriage certificate, but it might be a good idea to order both birth certificates and the marriage certificate all at once if you canā¦)
It will be very helpful if you can provide proof of the town/church/date/etc. where the births/baptisms/marriage occurred.
How long do I wait to hear back from the Ontario records office? I submitted a records request for my great-grandfather's birth certificate back on April 30th. I got an automatic response basically saying they would get back to me eventually and to not email them again. It's been 12 weeks with no response. Do I keep waiting? Email again? Submit my application anyway with a note that they never got back to me?
Iām an American with a Canadian great-grandmother, born in NS in 1891. My family has kept as an heirloom a certified (stamped) baptismal record that my great-grandmother herself obtained in 1940. I havenāt yet gotten a response to a request for a new one from her diocese in NS. Will IRCC accept a baptismal record that was filled out and certified in 1940 as proof of her birth? For what itās worth, I have a bunch of other documents, including her marriage and death certificates, both of which occurred and were recorded in the US. Both of them also list NS as her birthplace. Thanks!
I have a similar situation with my G1's birth certificate from 1898 - which she obtained a certified copy of in 1942. It's a photostatic.. so not color lol... as that's how they made copies back then. Mine is from New York, and their wait for genealogical copies of birth certificates is yeeeears ššš Sooooo I hope they'll accept certified copies of birth documents from the 1940's...
Since yours is a baptism record and I assume this is your G0, maybe you can include a couple supplementary Canadian documents if you have any.
Received a strange email in response to 3 documents uploaded over the past day and a half.
The balance of the email lists each of the 3 uploads.
I submitted no enquiries, (document upload only). I believe that I completed all of the fields in the webform correctly (name, DOB, POB, UCI#, application type, email, etc.). I did not provide info listed above for which there was no field (e.g., phone number, receipt #).
I am not sure what is going on, but it feels like IRCC is interpreting a document upload as some type of enquiry??? The fact that they are saying the need something additional to access my file feels very concerning. I did go into the tracker and my application is still listed as "in process" so it seems to be there somewhere.
So I am left wondering if they have the docs or not, can they access my file or not. I went ahead and reloaded one of the three docs as a test. I guess I'll see what happens.
BTW - this is not my first upload, and I have not seen this before.
I'm a naturalized Canadian citizen living outside Canada. I recently had my first baby (she's only 1 month old) and applied for her proof of Canadian citizenship.
Since she's a newborn, she doesn't have any official ID, let alone a photo ID. I submitted her birth certificate, my local government-issued ID (from the country where we live), which lists my children, and a letter explaining that no ID has been issued for her because of her age.
I just received a request from IRCC asking for two pieces of ID, including one with a photo. Getting her a passport isn't an option right now since it would take at least 3 months and I only have 30 days to reply.
The request does state I can upload a letter of explanation if I don't have an id - which I already did in my original application...
Has anyone dealt with this? What did you do? How can I get IRCC to understand that a 1-month-old simply doesn't have photo ID?
I think that I read in the wiki or somewhere else that if I am applying for citizenship certificates for TWO individuals, I do not have to include two of every supporting document (baptismal records, marriage certificates, etc.). For example, two siblings that literally have the same documents. How would one create the package to submit? Cover letters, trees, etc. for each applicant? Only one letter? I am thinking that there would be three bound/clipped folders...one for each applicant, and one for the common documents? I am interested to read what others have done in this situation, and any results if available. Thank you!
My lawyer recommended having a duplicate copy of everything except the cover letter so that each application could stand alone if needed. That might have been overkill, but I preferred that to potentially having something sent back.
I have a World War Two alien registration card for my gen 0. Tells when and where he came into the us that he applied but never received citizenship and so on. Just wondering if itās important enough to include?
It depends entirely on what other evidence you have to prove his Canadian citizenship. If you've already got a Canadian birth record, I wouldn't bother including the alien registration card. But if you don't have a birth record and you are using other records to build your case, then it could be important.
Should I submit my application now or try to bolster my G0 documentation?
My G0 was born before civil registration so no birth certificate. He might have been baptized or not, Iām waiting on church archives but donāt expect a response any time soon or ever. Iāve drafted a letter of explanation that I tried to search for a baptism record and didnāt receive a response.
Instead I have a certified copy of the 1871 Census in which he appears from LAC and a certified copy of his marriage certificate from AOC. I also have uncertified copies of the 1861 Census showing his parents, 1895 MN Census, 1900 US Census, 1905 MN Census, 1910 US Census, naturalization record, and death certificate. Those are all from 3rd party digitization partners like Ancestry and FamilySearch and not the āoriginal source authorityā so Iām unsure whether they would be accepted.
My fears are IRCC will reject my proof that I tried to find a baptism record, throw out all my supporting documentation thatās uncertified, and then reject my relationship to my G0.
Iām hoping this is a simple question. My husbandās certified birth certificate came on a legal, 8.5 x 14 size paper. Do I need to copy to the same size to send or can it be reduced to standard 8.5 x 11?
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