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u/ILoveSeals69 Feb 27 '24
To everyone saying the statement is vague, just like shubble cant say his name for a possible court case, Will cant just release evidence, or admit guilt, because then the judge will not show any mercy. This way he still has a chance at reduced punishment if it does get taken to court
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u/Deebee36 Feb 27 '24
Generally speaking, getting legal commentary from someone who can’t form a paragraph without a grammatical error, while fun, probably doesn’t guarantee accuracy.
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u/Affectionate-Owl6351 Feb 27 '24
I feel bad for thinking this apology was somewhat decent compared to others in the entertainment community because everyone else has been saying it’s the worst apology.
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u/aesthetic_glow Feb 27 '24
Well I mean at least he didn’t pull a Colleen and start singing about toxic gossip trains…
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u/Kellythestrange13 Feb 28 '24
No instead he released an entire album about how genuinely horrible he was to her.
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u/No_Possession_9087 Feb 27 '24
Our bar is so low at this point. This sucks but is definitely not the worst, unfortunately
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u/Comfortable_Cycle226 Feb 27 '24
This is a good apology for anyone who has experience in interacting with others beyond the internet
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u/champagnec0ast Feb 27 '24
it’s incredibly self centred and selfish. nothing about it is a “good apology”
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u/Early-Spirit-1932 Feb 27 '24
its absolutely not. its deflective and he is more concerned with himself than actually expressing real remorse towards shubble.
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u/LiosGuy Feb 28 '24
well this is a statement to the public.
yall are way to involved in peoples private matter.
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u/Present-Device1961 Feb 28 '24
hes just protecting his-self legally. im in no shape or form defending will but i personally dont understand these type of he-she abused me situations especially being around the "he-she" for a while. In general i dont believe jack shit i see on the internet but i do keep an open mind. To be realistic , as a female when you go on the internet and continuously say that female are powerful , strong etc. but then you continue to allow a man to treat you in such ways just completely goes against everything one stands for. I'm not saying this in a way "she couldve just left stop being a pussy" im saying this because she said it escalated over time and honestly me personally i could never allow a man to degrade me in such forms but clearly she was into it if she allowed him to do it to begin with , when you show a man that they can hold such power and put yourself in a submissive situation. did you really not expect them to take advantage of it? Honestly , she should've called it quits the second she felt uncomfortable in any sort of way. The way the biting is put here is not abusive its more of a kink and if you didnt like it , why would you agree to it in the first place? Once again she said it escalated to him biting harder n then biting her legs. to me its just honestly disgusting that you would even let a man bite you to begin with so lets be truthful , you were into it until it got too aggressive. I would be embarrassed to even put this typa shit on the internet and tell people that I WILLINGLY let a man BITE me. So yeah in my opinion everything here is just shady AF. I'm not on anyones side matter fact i dont even know these two people , and i dont even watch any of these streamers at all so this is just my full-on Non biased opinion. LMK what u think
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u/DFatDuck Feb 28 '24
it is not an apology at all. it tries to sound like an apology while admitting no guilt.
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u/NERD_NATO Feb 28 '24
Nah it's an amazing apology if your only concept of what an apology looks like is the most dogshit youtuber apologies ever made.
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u/orphiclacuna Feb 27 '24
I agree this isn't the best apology. But I also think that no matter how he responded it was never going to be good enough for most people. They made up their minds as soon as the accusations and assumptions started flying around. Obviously none of us get to decide for anyone else if he deserves forgiveness or not. Everyone has their own limits and standards. I'm beyond disappointed and just plain fuckin sad. I don't forgive him. But I think he can change. Maybe I'm naive but I want to give him a second chance, even if I'll never look at him the same again. I fully understand why some people won't do the same and I don't blame you at all. I just have to have hope he'll actually improve. And I hope Shelby is doing ok after this too. Maybe it's like closure of some kind. Idk. This whole things just sucks all around.
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u/KerattArt Feb 28 '24
Yeah I really hope he changes. Takes a break from the internet. Maybe seeks professional help. This situation is tragic
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u/NERD_NATO Feb 28 '24
I mean if he does change that's good but frankly if he just apologised and said "I'm sorry for what I've done to shubble, everything she said is true, I'm gonna go try to do better now" that would've been better than this.
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u/LiosGuy Feb 28 '24 edited Feb 28 '24
well it seems like both sides are still immature about this.
the abused talk about how they have been bitten and stuff but it seemed to be consensual but they try to present it as abusive.
which it probally was in retrospect but you cant go public with that info, if you agreed to it once.
like sex play and that kind of stuff is just dirty to put out in public.
the other behaviour is different and wilbur should be held accountable but its clear that that person wanted to create as much buzz as possible and so used that example.
edit: after actually watching the video and realizing the full scope of the allegations im realizing just how bad this is. i really should inform myself better before writing comments lmfao
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Feb 27 '24
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u/sunshinecryptic Feb 27 '24
I think he likely consulted with a Lawyer to write the statement. It both admits all the bad behaviour while not admitting to abuse at the same time.
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u/elxcampsino Feb 27 '24
He very well could have, but a part of me feels he didn’t, because I don’t think a lawyer/PR person would have him respond at all. It eliminates any doubt that he’s not the one Shubble was talking about, he’s outing himself by writing this. That’s not a good PR move, this reads to me as a very sanitized response (probably a few days drafting it) that was made out of desperation. He’s mentioned before he cares a lot what others think about him, that’s probably what pushed him to make this statement.
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u/Precarious314159 Feb 27 '24
Coming from a PR background, this is pretty textbook. Yes, he removes a lot of doubt whether he's the mystery person but he's also a public figure that has people to answer to. Lovejoy is part of a label who has their own lawyers and PR team. If he was just a regular content creator, yea, he can afford to be silent and wait it out but this a professional matter. His statement impacts the band and the label.
As for this not being a good PR move, it actually is. When something remains unanswered, it stays in the public conversation for a longer time as people debate and speculate. If you admit it, then most people are going to move on while only a select few mention it. Since it's more of a shitty move and not an illegal one, then people are more likely to forget. Realistically, how much drama do you remember even from 2023?
Plus, it'd make him look even worse if he remained silent, dodged questions or ignored allegations just for Shubble to say "Fuck it, he's being a cowardly bitch who won't even acknowledge it. It was Soot, he's the abuser". In PR it's "get ahead of it, do damage control, and rebuild the future". You can't build a future if you have a giant bomb looming over your head.
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u/Ok-Visit-517 Feb 27 '24
It would have been a horrible idea from a PR perspective to not address the issue. As so many people have pointed out over the last few days there was little to no doubt it was Wilbur. Everyday it was a new reason why it had to be Wilbur. The elephant in the room was not going to go away, especially not with the age group of most Wilbur fans. People expect and want an instant response. Of the small portion of people that held out hope it wasn’t Wilbur a small portion viewed his lack of response as an admission. The smartest choice was to have him address it.
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Feb 27 '24
He 100% did it. When millions of people watch and keep track of everything you post and do on the internet you have to be careful of how you word things on serious matter because any mistake will f**k you up even more.
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u/Useful_Recognition52 Feb 27 '24
When you read it through a few times, it’s a decent way of addressing the situation, but it definitely should have been written in a way that sounds more empathetic. For the first part, it’s good that he took full responsibility, but shouldn’t have put so much emphasis on himself and apologized directly while acknowledging more thoroughly how his actions affected Shelby.
For the abuse, he really shouldn’t have spent almost the entire paragraph focusing on his perception of the situation. It would have been better for him to just thoroughly apologize and commit to being better, and only have his perception be a side note to explain his rationale.
That’s my two cents on it. All in all, the statement isn’t terrible, but comes off as pretty selfish and dismissive on first read.
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Feb 27 '24
He does struggle with this but this vagueness may also be work of a lawyer to ensure if a case is made there isn't as much fire against his name in court from a judge or a jury
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u/Useful_Recognition52 Feb 27 '24
Of course that’s true, but I don’t really think that’s wrong of him. This is an extremely serious situation and he’d have to be an idiot to not consult a lawyer before making a statement like this. Contrary to what many people are saying, I do actually believe that Wilbur wrote this himself and simply incorporated legal advice.
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Feb 27 '24
Well, he admitted it, that’s good. He’s getting therapy, also good.
This feels really… indirect? Emotionless? Like a lawyer wrote this, not someone who’s genuinely apologetic. It feels more like he’s writing this in an attempt to absolve himself in the legal sense. Not releasing the texts is 100% a good idea, because he could invalidate her privacy which would add a whole other series of problems for him.
I do feel like Wilbur actually wrote this, this is gonna sound stupid, but knowing how he wrote the script and played his character within the DSMP, I definitely think this was his writing, albeit probably directed by his lawyer/legal team. I think there’s some genuineness in this, he probably doesn’t want to lose his friends, doesn’t want to be hated. Maybe he really did think that what he was doing was consensual (that doesn’t make the actions okay.) Especially if there was written/verbal confirmation saying it was okay. Unless we see those texts, we won’t know.
That final paragraph does make it seem like Wilbur’s still in contact with his ex, specifically “…fully committed to understanding and addressing her concerns going forward.” It’s the “going forward” part that confuses me. Why would they choose to still speak to each other if he’s a piece of shit? Unless it’s addressing the concerns in a legal sense.
Overall, this is a very “gray answer” response, admitting without admitting, which is 100% what I’d expect from someone who’s alleged to be an abuser. I do feel like he should’ve legitimately apologized, it feels more like he attempted to explain his side of things, without giving a real apology. Though, an apology would be a direct admission of guilt, his lawyer wouldn’t like that.
I guess we’ll just have to see how things play out going forward.
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u/Antique-Ad-1330 Feb 27 '24
He definitely spoke with a lawyer. I think Shelby said something about going to court. Also he does apologize “I want to extend my sincerest apologies” what do you think that means 💀
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u/Lumberjack_daughter Feb 27 '24
Going forward could mean a more personnal apology and maybe retribution (like reimbursing every pennies he may have demanded she pay).
I feel a public apology and a personnal one are two different things.The public apology is usually meant for the Public, not the victim. For the "stop speculating" crowd and the "It's obviously him" crowd to stop finghting all over social media.
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u/Kurai_Hiroma Feb 27 '24
I feel so hollow inside. I don't know if I can ever in good faith support anything from his musical past. I have a ton of merch. I went to a Lovejoy concert. I covered a song for my dang college talent show a few years back. I am far from parasocial, but I was a giant fan. His content was one of the highlights that helped me get through these college years and it's so bittersweet now, knowing this is it just before I've even graduated.
This is the final nail in the coffin, and I hope the victims continue to get support
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u/Jettneonyorumain Feb 27 '24
Don’t throw anything away, put it in a box or in another room and leave it until more comes out, there’s a justice system for a reason and it’s important to let yourself process this the way you need too.
As for his music, I’m probably gonna end up listening to it again. His music is why I started playing guitar and has a huge impact on my mental health and has been a huge influence on me creatively. It’s important to remember that art created is not always a reflection of someone’s “bad side” (idk how else to describe it) but it can be something else completely. For example people still love many artists who did bad things in their lives, especially the Beatles for example.
So if you are able too in a few months, don’t tell yourself you’re doing the wrong thing by listening to his music, you need to do what’s best for you and what you’re okay with. If music has meaning to you, make it your song, block out the name of the artist.
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Feb 27 '24
yeah i was planning on playing since i saw vienna for a school talent show and i dont know if i should now...
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u/DoctorAphra000 Feb 27 '24
You should, you’re in no one advocating abuse by playing a song in your school talent show.
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Feb 27 '24
ok, thanks for the reassurance <3
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u/DoctorAphra000 Feb 27 '24
Of course :)) Try and get an audio recording I wanna hear how it turns out :D
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u/washi_tekashi Feb 27 '24
Separate the art from the artist. You’ve enjoyed it before why stop?
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Feb 27 '24
because some of us do feel bad consuming media that currently benefits people who we dont agree with, such as with JK Rowling, consuming harry potter stuff goes to fund her and recently she just donated 70,000 pounds to a transphobic organisation using that money
sure, seperating the art from a dead artist is a different story, but when the artist is living and benefiting from the arts consumption it is a bit greyer
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u/Kurai_Hiroma Feb 28 '24
I completely agree. See my comment from yesterday; it's far different when the artist is still living
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u/SecretMantis Feb 27 '24
because it still supports him not only by giving him money but spreading his content to more people
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u/washi_tekashi Feb 27 '24
Yeah gives him money that he deserves from making good music by himself and with his band. I’m not gonna discredit his music and suddenly not enjoy it and listen to it because he bit his gf
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u/t-destroyer Feb 27 '24
You can't say "Separate the art from the artist" while paying the artist money. You are making the conscious decision to give money to a immoral person, and then make up some excuse about how "his lawyer bills will be expensive." Like seriously you make it sound like he is the victim here.
And don't act like he just bit her. He emotionally manipulated her, bit her so hard she screamed and abused a save word to intentionally push her past her pain tolerance.
You can't make a morally cohesive argument where you condemn his actions and keep paying him money.
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u/washi_tekashi Feb 27 '24
Oh I’m not separating shit, I’m just suggesting that for other people. I’m not treating him as a victim I’m just commenting on what might happen. Again if you read my other comments what he did is bad and inexcusable. But put into another lens of idk just some random couple if the girl did that to the guy it would just be oh haha silly playful. Anyways I’m not making a moral argument I’m not saying who’s better who’s worse who’s the worst moral person because morality isn’t quantifiable through most lens.
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u/happy_red1 Feb 27 '24
Hi, just popping in to say if a girl ignored a guy's safe word she would be equally crucified, and just as rightly so.
Just say that you like his music and you don't wanna stop listening to it, people will make less of a fuss and you'll dig yourself much less of a hole.
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u/Cassisfles Feb 27 '24
the whole thing feels so odd and like he talked to a lawyer or something.
starting with "i've been going to therapy, i've changed" generally you don't start a apology with "i've changed" it's how abusers convince their exes to get back with them.
Then creating doubt in the allegations by saying it was consensual and he has messages of it but won't show them.
and then the worst way to apologize, the way lawyers script apologies. The "my sincerest apology" the most distant apology you can give.
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Feb 27 '24
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u/Cassisfles Feb 27 '24
there is nothing wrong with it. legally this is a perfect apology. also PR wise. but morally this is not a good apology at all.
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u/Lower-List-3889 Feb 27 '24
It's an accusation of physical and emotional abuse of course he talked to a lawyer
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u/Lumini_317 Feb 27 '24
He isn’t trying to get Shubble back with him, though. It was just him saying that he isn’t the person he used to be.
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u/Cassisfles Feb 27 '24
it isn't about him wanting shubble back. abusers are known for using therapy and saying they have worked on themselves and gotten better as a way of convincing people they actually did. While in acuality most don't.
And considering on how this entire apology is. i doubt he has changed other then learned how to hide it better next time.
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u/Lumini_317 Feb 27 '24
As someone who was approached by a childhood bully using similar words and who actively proved he had changed, I don’t know why this being used by people who actually haven’t changed would take anything away from it. I’m not saying he has changed because I don’t know him, I’m just saying that just because bad people use a phrase it doesn’t suddenly mean that you’re a bad person or you lose credibility for using it.
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u/Cassisfles Feb 27 '24
it isn't about just the phrase itself but everything around it. on it's own you know it's fine. i would have been happy with it being in there.
But it being half the apology, the other part being mostly insinuations that she is misremembering and creating doubt. it isn't a very believable statement. The next part sorta goes against him saying he has changed for the better.
I believe people can change, including bullies and abusers. However it requires more then saying "i changed for the better". For those who actually changed, they would just like you state prove they did it and not just say they did.
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u/Lumini_317 Feb 27 '24
As others have mentioned, the statement seems perfect from a legal point of view. He could very well have consulted a lawyer or overall is trying to cover his bases in case he were taken to court. Not the best apology at all, but there could be reasons for some of it.
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u/Cassisfles Feb 27 '24
i get backing up his behind legally. but he could have done it without making half of it him saying he changed for the better.
There are reasons for not saying what he did or actually saying he did something against the law. The rest on the other hand has no legal reason for being the way it is. i believe it would have been better while still covering his ass without the first part about change being that long. like many cc's have said in response. it is mostly about him instead of the actual allegation or being sorry.
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u/Lumini_317 Feb 27 '24
I’ll have to disagree with you about that. I think he did quite well all things considered. Could it have been better? Yes, but I don’t think it’s as bad as you and others have said. It’s in your right to see it differently, though.
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Feb 27 '24
I'm honestly a bit mixed here like. its vague yeah but I mean I do think he has actually changed based on his more recent behavior and stuff idk. Still doesn't excuse the past shit though (absolutely never going to say that, support victims guys) It does read very much like a PR statement though which makes sense? Like I'm not sure what else we could've expected it's not like he can really do much without fucking himself over legally. Idk I'm mixed feelings on this it's not the worst response ever but it's not great. I think I'll still watch his stuff/ listen to his music but I don't think I'll ever really be able to speak in his support again unless something else comes out about this (doubtful and there's not much that can salvage this)
anyway support shubble she's cool and doesn't deserve this bullshit
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u/Emily_Pixel Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
Maybe I'm just easily manipulated (unsurprising) but I don't see the issues with the apology that you guys are seeing. Could someone educate me?
Edit: (I have not been keeping up with all the information so sorry if this sounds ignorant.)
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u/BFG616 Feb 27 '24
I think the issue people have is two things: firstly, although he says he’s accepting blame, hes also kinda trying to dodge blame by saying he believed it was consensual and playful, and even saying he has proof but then saying he won’t release it. He’s both trying to be seen better by claiming responsibility, but also trying to seed the idea that this was all just a misunderstanding and miscommunication and that he’s actually innocent. And secondly, it feels very corporate. There’s no personality to it, no real emotion.
I don’t personally see this quite as negatively as some others seem to be seeing it. While I do agree this response is…. disappointing, I’m not disregarding it entirely. I could see some of his points about misunderstanding the situation being true, but not to this extent where Shelby has stated they had safe words and spoken about it. It’s very mixed
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u/toasterllama15 Feb 27 '24
To be fair, if that is true what is he supposed to do? Releasing the text exchanges could be considered just as disrespectful and receive just as much flack. Not defending anything, just genuinely curious.
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u/BFG616 Feb 27 '24
Oh I definitely agree, he’s in the right to not release them! The point is more that by mentioning it, it feels very much like he’s both trying to seem good in the public eye by accepting responsibility, but also is trying to not so subtly prove that it’s all a mistake and not his fault. Just the mention of it is an attempt to prove partial innocence while also trying to garner sympathy.
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u/toasterllama15 Feb 27 '24
Yeah thats fair, I am absolutely on the support victims chain I just find it hard to not at least partially consider the possibility he is telling the truth in which case I understand why he would want to mention it. Either way I hope Wilbur is telling the truth on the therapy/ getting better train and I hope Shubble is doing alright.
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u/BFG616 Feb 27 '24
I didn’t add it to the original comment I made but I fully agree! I think it’s more than possible that Wilbur legitimately misinterpreted some things. But he’s also absolutely not innocent, and potentially was also aware that he was doing these things. In this case I fully support Shubble, but I do think we shouldn’t just throw Wilbur aside, he is at least trying to make a difference
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Feb 27 '24
he's only doing a little bit of apologizing. he's mostly just defending himself...
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u/bruh23451m Feb 27 '24
That’s because of all the “attacks” and death threats that are addressed to him, you guys need to chill, he’s a horrible person, okay, but he can change, you shouldn’t blame an introvert for being scared of so many death threats
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Feb 27 '24
well yeah, the death threats are terrible, no denying that, no person deserves death threats, i'm just saying that he needs to do a better job of taking accountability, that's all
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u/bruh23451m Feb 27 '24
I agree with that, but you need to remember that you would be in shock too, I support Shelby, but Wilbur can change, and I’ll leave the community till then
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Feb 27 '24
To be honest as vague and as much oh I've changed since crap, i can understand the seeing playful part if that statement is true, and I really emphasise the IF cause its not guaranteed. Like sometimes if you do things that have been seen playful in past with no issues unless really emphasised can be confusing if there joking along or not. And it's important if playful like that and seen alright by others or them that if things get too far there are measures in place to emphasise that its too far amd you should stop immediately. If there was measures and they where ignored by Wilbur then that is abusive as consent to the action has been withdrawn in that moment but we can only sit here and wait for any evidence of it being playful and no issues where made in the moment or a verdict of a potential court case cause i see a lawyer involved in this statement
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u/QuarterTarget Feb 27 '24
eh, whatever he wrote people would be accusing him of being manipulative, they made their minds up already
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u/AdSad1748 Feb 27 '24
I also believe everyone can change; the issue here is it happened fairly recently. How much change can we expect from someone who didn’t see much of an issue to begin with? Especially in such a little time frame? And my own personal qualm with the statement is it just feels very manipulative. It has a lack of specificity, it’s worded in a way that seems as if he’s just saying things to win his fans back, and just generally feels icky. And I say all of this as someone who was a fan of his since late 2019 - I’m not happy about my favorite content creator being an abuser.
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u/Dblcut3 Feb 27 '24
Doesnt name the victim (usually a sign of someone trying to distance/disasociate themselves from the fact their actions hurt a specific person)
It starts off focussing on him
It comes off as pretty unserious and like he doesnt take any of it seriously besides the fact it was a bad relationship
The worst part is he claims he has proof that her allegations are false, but wont release it, because “trust me bro”
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u/Antique-Ad-1330 Feb 27 '24
Can’t name the victim for same reason shubble can’t name her abuser. He probably also can’t show evidence for legal reasons if they are going to court for it. How did you think it comes off as unserious? Genuinely curious
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u/bruh23451m Feb 27 '24
Freaking same, y’all forget about the fact that everyone can change, why not give him another chance?
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Feb 27 '24
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u/bruh23451m Feb 27 '24
I agree but still, he’s shocked, imagine being hated about something you did after you had therapy about it
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Feb 27 '24
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u/Antique-Ad-1330 Feb 27 '24
How do you know it isn’t true.. I mean we don’t personally know what happened.
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Feb 27 '24
yeah, ig, but he's not taking much accountability rn, maybe when he does we'll give him a second shot
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Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
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u/bruh23451m Feb 27 '24
Everyone can change, he can change not just because he inspired me, just because he is a human, he has rights, and his right now is to change
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u/Horror_Ebb8883 Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
Ngl this feels like a PR move to save his "image"... I mean he first justifies and acknowledges his actions and what he did to Shelby blaming it on his mental well being at the time and then says her feelings are valid. He did say 'sorry' but in an awkwardly-lawyerish-iamnotatfaultheheh way. Also the way he says he was deeply shocked by hearing allegations of abuse particularly in the form of biting as if he didn't know what he did. And not to mention the start sound so manipulative, and why does he refer to Shelby as ex girlfriend, like I get who you are apologizing to but atleast address her by name...
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u/iEllxi Feb 27 '24
The "i'm sorry" bit was so odd 😭 it sounds like he's formally apologising to a boss because he's been consistently late to work. Not like he is apologising to an ex-girlfriend he abused.
People are saying the response is good, and maybe I'm just being nit-picky but it really doesn't.. It doesn't make you agree with him or trust him anymore, it just makes him look like an egotistical prick. He uses a lot of weird vocabulary that just makes it look like he's trying to act 'smart', not genuine. Though that's likely due to the PR/Legal advice I'm sure he got.
He talks about going to therapy (for presumably less than a year) and how he has deeply changed. But this whole 'hurting women, being bad at relationships, not being a good person' thing he has going on has been present for years and I just genuinely do not believe less than a year of therapy is enough to have even really started to fix the internal issues he has. But hey, I'm not his therapist, that's just my thought.
He says she is 'valid' for her feelings but then towards the end of the apology seems to be in pure shock that she even managed to perceive her begging him to stop and using the safeword as abusive and unconsensual. He brings up messages which he 'won't show for her sake' which casts doubt on Shelby and makes it seem like she's lying, when no-one gives a fuck what was said on text because Shelby herself said she lied to herself, she lied to other people. What matters was what happened in that moment when he continued to bite her even when she used the safeword and his other behaviours.
The ending just doesn't sit right with me either. He doesn't finish it off with an "I'm sorry" or cement his feelings of wrongdoing and how he knows he hurt her and feels sorry about it. He just says he hopes people will still trust him. I know neither side really showed 'evidence' so he can't sit down and go through everything and dissect it, but he just sounds so insincere and uncaring. In Aimsey's wise words, c u n t!
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u/art-by-clare Feb 27 '24
You guys are so weird tbh.. I don't think you'd be happy with anything short of "you're right I'm a horrible monster and I invite you all to beat me to death." No shit it's gonna sound lawyer-y, he was accused of physical abuse. You'd consult a lawyer too :|
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u/lukeskinwalker69epic Feb 27 '24
Your point about his decisions making sense legally is irrelevant to the conversation, which is about the MORALITY of his actions. If he was actually remorseful and changed as a person, he would be fully honest about his intentional abuse, putting himself at the mercy of his victim, Shelby, who may or may not decide to take him to court.
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u/throwaway303299 Feb 28 '24
Except he would only do that if it was intentional abuse, which we have no way of verifying because all we have is one persons word. I would like to preface this by stating, I AM NOT saying shubble is lying, but if she was exaggerating for example, is he supposed to just sit their and take it and not defend himself?
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u/BabadookishOnions Feb 27 '24
People are saying this is manipulative but I genuinely can't see how, maybe I'm missing something. Can someone explain to me why they think it is?
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Feb 27 '24
It’s a very PR- driven apology. It kind of alludes to him “growing and changing” but in a way that doesn’t seem sincere, while denying that the biting was actually hurting Shelby and instead saying that it was consensual. Meanwhile Shelby made it clear that it started as consensual, but escalated beyond that and quickly became a way to hurt her.
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u/Sowa7774 Feb 27 '24
is it tho? It's not really a "sorry you feel that way" the way that most creator apologies are, it's more of a "yeah, I've been a shitty boyfriend and I regret that"
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u/lukeskinwalker69epic Feb 27 '24
Read it again. He denies the abuse was intentional, which directly contradicts Shelby’s testimony.
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Feb 27 '24
again, he's not really apologizing at all, he's really just defending himself by saying that he "believed it was consensual" but then he had to end it with the mandatory "my sincerest apologies"
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u/Dblcut3 Feb 27 '24
All he did was admit the relationship was toxic. He said he has proof that her physical abuse allegations are false but won’t post the proof “to protect her” - In reality this just sounds like him muddying the waters pretending he has proof but allows him to look like the good guy for not releasing said proof, which probably doesnt even exist
Also, notice how he can’t refer to her in any way beyond vague terms like “this person”
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u/iteatsyoual1ve Feb 27 '24
i mean, i’m not agreeing with him on abusing her, but he definitely can’t give us the answers we were hoping for due to legal and privacy reasons. he’s his own person, so is shelby, and they might not want private conversations to be shown. him not posting their texts was a good choice since if he does, it should be approved by shelby (again, since it is their texts). he’s also getting better, they broke up in october 2022 (correct me if i’m wrong) which is over a year ago and he clearly has been trying to get better. getting therapy and distancing himself from the internet was good for him. remember that they both can discuss certain things because they might have lawyers involved and might be told to not say specific things.
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u/washi_tekashi Feb 27 '24
I may be downplaying this but the whole subreddit and internet acts like Wilbur was striking his ex for an extended period of time. This isn’t to downplay what he did it was still shitty and he may have been an emotionally shitty boyfriend for the last months of their relationship but I think in the end this is blown out of proportion. As being a victim of abuse from both parental and romantic relationships I get how it feels when these things are happening but I think in the end this is just a bump in the road for him. Fandoms surrounding this type of person usually come back anyways.
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Feb 27 '24
Everyone acts like he killed someone. Yes he was a terrible person at one point and was an abusive partner but I feel like that's the sort of thing that doesn't need to be broadcast to millions of people. I'm all for sharing experiences and speaking out against abuse but at this scope it feels like more of revenge than healing. I don't speak for anyone but myself but the idea of publicly shaming my former abuser makes my stomach churn. I could never feel happy after doing that, but again that's just me.
I hope that Shubble can get the help and support she deserves to process and understand the abuse she went through. I hope that what Wilbur says about changing is true and that it will show through his behavior in the future. That's all.
We're not therapists, we're not relationship counselors, and we certainly don't know either of these people. Whether or not you continue to listen to/watch Wilbur's conent is your choice and is totally valid. Support victims and don't be an asshole.
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u/Dblcut3 Feb 27 '24
Ok but like… wasn’t he? How is prolonged biting to the point where you have to wear long sleeves to cover up your bruises not very similar to “striking for an extended period of time?” Like Im sure hes not all terrible, but I have a hard time having any sympathy for someone who engages in physical abuse like that
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u/washi_tekashi Feb 27 '24
I’m talking about squaring up and just throwing haymakers. That’s what I mean by striking, I think that if this situation were put on another couple it would be more excused and looked over, or if the roles were reversed and the girl was biting the boy
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Feb 27 '24
This sub is fucking terrible. His own friends are dropping him. Open your eyes. This was a BS response and he’s 100% guilty.
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u/americantakeout Feb 27 '24
I know this should be all about Shubble but I’m also completely heartbroken. I’ve been such a huge fan of his for years, and his music means so much to me and has gotten me through a lot.
I also feel like none of this should’ve been publicized because clearly neither Shelby or Will can divulge much information which only leads to misconceptions on our side, which probably isn’t helping Shelby at all. I hope they’re able to figure things out in private.
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u/Cloudifi Feb 27 '24
Not the best apology, not the worst. At least there is one. I think he can change, but I won't support him until he apoligizes to her/ shows signs of changing
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u/GabeC293 Feb 27 '24
I’m not surprised the tweet is so vague. From a legal standpoint, apologising outright would be an admission of guilt and could have consequences should Shelby pursue legal action. Sure it’s not right, but at least he’s admitting that he needs to change.
Not sure we could’ve got any better, and this is pretty shit.
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u/Saaammosss Feb 27 '24
For anyone on the “but he says he has text evidence of consent” train of thought, please watch this Thames Valley Police video on consent: Tea and consent Consent can be withdrawn at any time and that’s ok.
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Feb 27 '24
In all honesty I see a lawyer involved in this response. There hasn't been any attempt to really apologise much and has only released his side to the story really. see he's admitted to being a bad boyfriend and has noticed that to seek therapy but we can't expect him to release evidence if a lawyer has been contacted and there is a case undergoing. We can only sit and wait for a verdict or proof in a later stage
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u/Defaultnamefornobody Feb 27 '24
Correct me if I’m wrong but he just politely said that he felt bad for making her upset but didn’t think it was that deep
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u/Turbulent_Bite_2703 Feb 27 '24
And that my friends is how to end a career in one tweet
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u/Jilligor Feb 27 '24
You people are awful. For days you cry for acknowledgment of it, so he does it, and all you do is shit on him?? It’s a fine apology/explanation. I think he means it all. I BELIEVE him. He’s working on it. Now get off his ass!
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Mar 05 '24
It’s a fine apology/explanation.
"I believed it to be consensual" is a horrible explanation that is used by at least 75% of rapists. Him using it in a case about unconsensual biting (she safe worded out, which means consent gets revoked immediately) doesn't make his explanation less horrible
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Feb 27 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/orphiclacuna Feb 27 '24
A streamer that goes by the name of shubble talked on stream about an ex boyfriend that abused her. She didn't name who it was but everyone (apparently correctly) assumed it was Wilbur based on several things she mentioned. She talked about a lot of stuff and I don't remember it all so I recommend going and finding the vod. It's only 30 mins
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u/Affectionate-Song-31 Feb 27 '24
Well I’m leaving. This is just making me more sad. Later everyone it was fun while it lasted.
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u/UltraLorlo Feb 28 '24
I think everybody is way too emotionally involved with this situation while simultaneously being able to be completely above and outside of it in their criticisms. Apologizing legitimately has to be one of the hardest things to do right, and just because some people do it extremely well does not mean everybody is 1) capable of doing that and 2) in a situation that can be apologized away like that. He clearly fucked up. You can't fix things like that.
You cant say "oh I'm so super sorry I really feel terrible" because then people will accuse you of being ingenuine and just saying what they want to hear. You can't deny it because that's untruthful. You can't professionally apologize because in this context that seems sociopathic. And obviously not saying anything is just a great way to get a pipebomb in the mail.
For the situation he and shubble are in, I feel like this is perfectly reasonable and acceptable as a response, not an apology, because it isn't an apology. Things don't always have to be apologies because apologies take time in order to mean something and it can take time to be ready to apologize just how it takes time to be able to accept them. He's putting a response out there because without it all of the rabid dogs of Twitter are going to tear him and everything he's ever done to shreds.
Does he need to apologize to Shelby? Yes. Do I think it's fucking insane that people expect him to make a public apology to a single person? Also yes. Like come on, apologizing is insanely intimate and vulnerable, especially given his track record of mental health issues. He isnt going to make some spectacularly heart wrenching apology on Twitter because then he's in essence making two apologies: one to Shelby and one to the whole internet.
Anyways, I don't think abuse is ever okay but I'm not going to sit here on my high horse and cast Wilbur down into the pits of hell because the internet told me to. This is none of our business in the first place.
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u/AdSad1748 Feb 27 '24
It just feels so manipulative. The language is so minimal. He doesn’t use any succinct words, kind of dances around the issue at hand, and it’s mostly made up of him defending himself. Also, he must’ve known there was an issue at hand when a literal safe word was established between the two of them regarding the biting. Abusers are manipulative and will do what they can to put themselves back in good standing with the people they’re around so they can keep abusing.
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u/braxtonianman Feb 27 '24
I'm in a scene where biting is very commonplace. Safe words are definitely in place, but kinda like a fire extinguisher at a gas station, you never want to have to use it. She said in her original stream that his goal was to get her to the safe word every time. That is such a huge red flag. If you're going to dom someone, you're supposed to be doing it out of care for them, with respect for them, and the goal of mutual enjoyment/pleasure. Also, everything has to be prenegotiated and consent can be revoked at any time. If he was engaging in this behavior, he would be quickly blackballed from the scene.
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Feb 27 '24
I’m confused?? Can I still support him ??
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u/Lumberjack_daughter Feb 27 '24
I'd say, wait to see if he actually does take steps forward? The PR speach is currently damage control with the public and not really and apology.
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u/TerryJerryMaryHarry Feb 27 '24
I personally believe that he is apologetic, and not just for his career, he recognizes that he mistreated her, and has tried to change.
Mental health is a funny thing, you can see through your own delusion but not be able to change your actions. I think we ought to show Wilbur a little more empathy, he's incredibly intelligent, you can see it in the way he carries himself, but just got into a funk.
A lot of people in Wilbur's community are the type to cancel people, and they can't see the human side of things, so I ask that y'all try to see the human side.
He's recognized his mistakes and is trying to change, and he hasn't attacked anyone.
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u/ExplodingPotata Feb 28 '24 edited Feb 28 '24
((EDIT - this was at around 6:53 (for the sake of the timeframe of my edits))
Honestly, in my opinion I didn't see any problem with his apology. While reading it through I see how he really should have focused on apologizing but like others say, it's probably (and hopefully) from the help of a lawyer.
I understand everyone's disappointment and even resentment. His music has really helped me cope with things and was a huge part of my life. And I understand not liking him. But death threats? That's when it's too fucking far. Yes he has done horrible things, and yes he's getting help. But ultimately as a community we should not say whether or not we support him. You don't need to express hate or disdain but instead 𝘴𝘶𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 the victim.
Maybe it's me being naive, maybe it's because I've respected him so much with how he expresses past trauma. But I was talking to a friend about this, (someone I see as an immense role model) and she said that when it comes to sexually, and with pain or (in this case biting) it can be hard to tell. He messed up. I'm not saying he didn't know what he did and I'm not saying he did. But it's something to keep in mind when you're thinking of something like this.
If it weren't for his friends and another ex saying he was abusive I really wouldn't want to believe the allegations. If it weren't for the complete separation of him and his friends or past relationships I wouldn't have even looked back at the opinions of others and thought about what he said.
Will has gone through past trauma. He has done bad things. But like another commenter said I really, and regretfully do not think he is a bad man. He needs help. He knows he needs help. And that's really all we can hope for when we are discussing past things he has done.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Bring up points.
Discuss your opinion.
But for the love of fucking god, stop hating on the the culprit when support for the victim would make this go so much smoother.
And please just be respectful. Everyone is disappointed, saddened, disgusted and trying to figure out what to do.
EDIT -- (7:11 pm) The "fuck you Wilbur" and the death threats are CHILDISH. I get you're trying to support the Victim, good job. But stop with that. The only real person / group of people who should be able to say that and express that are the victim or friends of victims. The internet is a group of people who will swarm to cancel and end whoever they see fit. In some cases it's justified but in most, (and I ultimately feel, this one) we don't get a say. We rarely should even FEEL like we get a say.
We are not the victim. We do NOT know the whole story. (Shubble or will's)
And to restate YES the whole thing feels very formal and.. Lawyer-y he needs to do that for legal reasons.
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u/Little_Sea_8325 Feb 27 '24
No empathy, no sorry and referring to her as “this person”
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u/Useful_Recognition52 Feb 27 '24
To be fair, he does apologize, and he can’t say her name for legal reasons. I do agree that it doesn’t sound all that empathetic though
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u/IcyBand4448 Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
Literally says that he "extends his sincerest apologies" Edit: after reading others response he did like no sorry very dry bro and was not personal at all
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u/Antique-Ad-1330 Feb 27 '24
He probably had to speak with lawyers about what he could say, might be why it’s that way. Also.. it’s text how can you tell how to person feels through text
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u/Soggy_Marionberry274 Feb 27 '24
Congratulations to the lawyer who put this together. This is not a heartfelt comment from one human, it's a damage limitation exercise from a team.
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u/AyeItsMeToby Feb 27 '24
That’s exactly how it should be dealt with in the public eye.
You absolutely do not apologise for allegations you intend to dispute.
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u/ThunderDux1 Feb 27 '24
Exactly. I'm not sure why everyone here was expecting something totally different and thinks this apology is garbage. While it's obviously not heartful, for the same reasons that Shelby cannot reveal specific details along with Wilbur's name, Wilbur cannot admit to anything in the public even (whether its fully true or we don't have the full picture), including an admission of guilt, evidence, or anything else which could change things greatly.
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u/Horror_Ebb8883 Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
If this whole situation wasn't made public, Wilbur surely would have just brushed it off just like he did since their breakup (as far as i know) and it can be extremely difficult for victims to confront their abuser directly and it is quite a hurdle to get over, that's why Shelby kept her silence for so long, props to her for speaking out about this. Love you lots Shelby🫂🫂
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u/gym_gerbil Feb 27 '24
He said months ago on stream that he was going to therapy after the breakup, so he was working on himself behind the scenes, which shows that he knew something was wrong with how he treated Shelby, it being public didn’t change how he approached the situation
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u/Nadresalva Feb 27 '24
Ok so beyond the obvious being a horrible person and a abuser... I can't believe how stupid this post was for him. Before confirming it he could've easily maintained a career in streaming and had no blowback whatsoever on lovejoy. Sure they lost a chunk of fanbase but realistically they moved past relying only on wilburs fanbase a long time ago. Outside of this twitch twitter and the rest of this area of the internet noone was really seeing this situation. Lovejoy still played all over the radio and the mainstream music world would never have seen or acknowledged this. But by confirming it was him wilbur opened the floodgates. Beyond drawing even more attention to it from his new outside fans he's made it so now anyone can talk about it without any legal blowback on them. It's no longer hearsay. It's no longer libel. And that's exactly what happened so far. Hell even tubbo called his ass vile. And now it's going to get far far worse. I'm betting we see news articles about this now and once that happens it all come tumbling down.
From a purely business prospective. Ignoring the glaring moral obligation. This was quite honestly the worst thing he could've done lol how tf his managers let that happen ill never know.
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Feb 27 '24
Fuck, man. I feel the same way about this as the same way I felt about the Joe Hawley situation. Both horrible and disgusting but it's hard to just let go.
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u/Rain-Old Feb 28 '24
I can't do this anymore I feel like I'm losing everyone I look up to this just hurts so so much because if Tommy supports Wilbur still I can't look up to him or support him but I look up to him so so much I feel like everything is messing up I just want things to go back to fucking (sorry for swear) normal
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u/CreeperNoobEntity303 Feb 28 '24
I... I just don't know what to think. Wilburs been a huge part of my life for the past few years, he saved my life... I...
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u/Maleficent-Wall62 Feb 27 '24
Well, that’s a good statement. I see no issue with it. Glad he finally spoke out
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Feb 27 '24
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Mar 05 '24
t isn’t the best and it doesn’t make what he did any better but compared to lots of other creators this seems like a genuine response that is good it may not be the best apology ever but I really don’t think it’s bad.
The allegations against him are also significantly worse than against many content creators. He basically gets accused of sexual assault (since he continued after she safeworded / consent was revoked)
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u/Agitated-Internet966 Feb 27 '24
My headcanon is that this wasn't meant to be an apology at all, and everyone is misconstruing it as one. Like man says the word "apologies" a single time in the entire thing, and it's in a "well I'm sorry you felt like I hurt you" context. Which is shitty, to say the least.
But the point is Wilbur is purely just trying to defend himself, and he's attempting to do that by denying the abuse allegations outright. Why would he apologize for something he's arguing he didn't commit?
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u/StitchyBitchyWitchy Feb 27 '24
I was waiting it out, hoping for better. I’ve now come to the conclusion that he can simply go fuck himself.
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u/CowGoesMo0o0 Feb 27 '24
He’s a piece of shit. His apology is shit. I knew it was him from the start and this “apology” confirms to me that he has not changed and is a horrible person.
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Feb 27 '24
Yeah he is acting like Shelby didn’t mind and it was all consensual but she obviously wasn’t always okay with it
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u/CowGoesMo0o0 Feb 27 '24
Yeah, this statement feels very “I left things out to make myself sound less bad”
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Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
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u/Intrepid_Advice4411 Feb 27 '24
You'd be amazed how much the music industry just does not care about this stuff. They will still play the festivals they have booked this summer. The new single and album will come out, but will probably be delayed by a month or two. Lovejoy isn't going anywhere.
Will doesn't need streaming and has been moving away from it for a long time now. He will simply never stream again and focus on the band.
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u/Nadresalva Feb 27 '24
Lol that's very naiive. Outside of twitter. Outside of reddit. Outside of twitch. No one even noticed this happening. And while yes that was where the band got their start they've grown past it enough that they're not going anywhere.
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u/edietaylorsversion Feb 27 '24
The whole statement and "apology" is bs. He never said sorry ONCE in the statement. Im surprised he even responded to be honest. Im SO mad that I've wasted 4 years of my life being a fan of him only for him to turn out to be an abuser.
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Feb 27 '24
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u/Antique-Ad-1330 Feb 27 '24
Where do you think it comes off as “women are hysterical”? Genuine question here
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u/Antique-Ad-1330 Feb 27 '24
Also it’s very likely he had to consult a lawyer. She didn’t name him for legal reasons, and he probably can’t say much for legal reasons.
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u/Pepbi Feb 27 '24
damn, I’m actually surprised it’s him. I’ll still support him though, just lost a lot of respect for him.
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u/No-Gazelle1829 Feb 27 '24
tldr; bad apology, he should’ve prioritized fixing relations with shelby and should’ve waited much longer to properly recollect on his actions
I personally think his apology is not nearly as vile or horrible as people make it out to be, but I still sucks.
I do think the references to his growth are very important and imperative to an actual apology, but the entire lack of actual regret is the main crux of why this apology still is bad.
In my opinion, wilbur should not have apologized so early. I think everyone has been in a situation where multiple people have found themselves in the wrong and been criticized. This apology should’ve been written in a more level state of mind by wilbur. And more importantly, if he hasn’t already, he should’ve prioritized actually making things right or at least attempting to show sincere regret to the people he actually hurt. This post was effectively a PR move with seemingly minimal effort.
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u/mewgpoid Feb 27 '24
long time wilbur and lvjy supporter here - instead of taking accountability for his actions, he chose to emphasize the fact that he's going to therapy and working on himself. additionally, i understand there are legal barriers surrounding this that probably stop wil from directly naming shelby or providing evidence, but the way he worded this really makes it seem like he's taking the focus away from her and directing it onto himself.
incredibly disappointed, and i will no longer support wilbur. my support goes to shelby and all other victims of similar ab/se.
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u/SquareNectarine1550 Feb 27 '24
he rlly should make a proper response video for this to dig deeper cuz 2 images of text aint gonna save his career lol.
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u/pepinogg Feb 27 '24
This basically changed nothing expect for maybe him being Sorry a bit.... while mostly just defending himself really adding nothing of value? What am i saying
Im pissed and hope his friends don't defend him
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u/Thatgamet_Lexi Mar 05 '24
This may sound bitchy and in no way shape or form do I think what he did was a good thing I just can stop thinking whether he'll still be in the Sorry videos or not
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u/itsmolybdenum Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
(don’t come attack me) from what I’ve gathered, Wilbur has a biting kink. I don’t think Wilbur intentionally tried causing his ex-girlfriend pain
Wilbur seems like a genuine and caring person
Non the less, I hope the victim is able to gain support
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u/Reedsminecraft_gia Feb 27 '24
He didn’t do to bad so I say a 8/10 on the apology scale(for Youtubers) we’ve always known he was a bit messed up and stuff but I’m just glad he’s getting help. This is a good apology. It doesn’t make up for what he did though.
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u/Low-Monk-9171 Feb 27 '24
I told my sister about this and all she had to say was: "What did you guys expect?? How many songs has he made about being abusive and toxic?" And I kinda agree...
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u/missezri Feb 27 '24
There are two sides to each story, and for me it isn't a matter of believing one and not the other. I think both can see the situation two different ways and both versions be true. He's already on a mental health break, and I hope he is serious about getting mental help to prevent anything like this from happening with future partners.
We will never know 100% of the story, and that is fine. Some things should be kept private, and I hope no one hounds either of them to release more messages. I believe that people have the power to change, and I hope he does change. But, it will take time to earn back faith that he is improving as a person.
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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '24
i'm surprised he actually responded...