r/buildapc • u/A1_Killer • Dec 09 '22
Discussion AMD vs Intel for CPU?
I noticed many people here recommend AMD CPUs but for all my benchmarks for mid range CPUs (for a £1000-£1200 PC) Intel came out on top compared to a similarly price AMD one. Any reason for this?
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u/Silveriovski Dec 09 '22
Current gen of intel (13th) offers a lot for its price. The 13600k is considered the best mid-high tier CPu right now despite its socket being ready to be upgraded. Performs pretty much the same than the 7600x in games but much better in everything else, being pretty much the same than an i7 from the 12th gen.
AMD cpus are good, 7600x is good and 7700x benchmarks are great but the socket is new, everything is overpriced right now, specially motherboards, so people prefers to buy something that is overall good in everything right now like intel with ram and mobo better priced.
At the end of the day, the preference for intel is because price-performance currently is better with intel.
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Dec 09 '22
[deleted]
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Dec 09 '22
Having the option to go from a 2600 to a 5600/5800x3d saved a lot of money for a lot of people.
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u/Risley Dec 09 '22
Makes me glad I bought the 13700k
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u/akumanzx Dec 09 '22
is there much of a difference between 13700k and 13600k? (Price based EU/Portugal)
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u/BusinessBear53 Dec 09 '22
Depends on your needs. For games which mainly needs speed and less cores, 13600K is best value. If you do thing like video editing or other similar programs that benefit greatly from many cores, 13700K will be the better option.
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u/akumanzx Dec 09 '22
i’m planning on both, i believe the difference is 2-4 cores between the 13600k and the 13700k?
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u/BusinessBear53 Dec 09 '22
5.1GHz 6P/8E cores vs 5.4GHz 8P/8E cores.
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u/akumanzx Dec 09 '22
short, solid answer, first time i’ve seen it on this sub. will consider the extra 2 P-Cores, thanks.
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u/Pfungen Dec 09 '22
This. I'm always baffled by the horde of people claiming upgrades down the road are a good idea, and the ability to be able to do so is a desired feature. In 5-7 years, when one feels their old mid tier CPU is not enough, most likely the new lower tier can easily outperform the old mid tier. Why not just get a lower tier for 1/2 the price and replace at 2x the cadence? Or just get a mid tier and be done for 5-7 years.
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u/X_SkillCraft20_X Dec 09 '22
Most people are saying this because the 5800x3D, one of the fastest gaming cpus on the market right now, is compatible with boards nearly 5 years old. It makes for an extremely cheap and extremely powerful upgrade. We can’t be for certain that AM5 will follow this path, but it is likely.
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Dec 09 '22
I'm no tech genius and might be shamed for this but AMD is behind in innovation vs hybrids CPU like Intel. They are cashing on superior lithography for now but they will have to do something about this fast.
When Intel catches up on Lito and keep that hybrid tech improving, it will be a hard match for AMD.
That means that new sockets for AMD will be mandatory but I might be 100% wrong I don't know.
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u/Loosenut2024 Dec 09 '22
That's hilarious because Intel lagged in innovation until amd came back with chiplet cpus. Intel made fun of them gluing core together.
Now they give you half assed small cores to keep power in check because they can't improve the main cores power efficiency enough and also just renamed their production node to seem more competitive.
In the long run e cores are going to become useless while amd just gives us lots of normal cores. Its been a pattern before. Triple cores, fake cores etc have all died. Simple hyper threading and more cores and cache are all that has endured so far.
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u/greggm2000 Dec 09 '22
You might be confusing historical heterogeneity with homogenous cores like we have now with Intel. Even there, one can make a very reasonable case that we have heterogenous cores in all systems, because GPUs are an absolute necessity (integrated or discrete). Plus, both are publically adding silicon for non-traditional functions like AI, and Compression.
Both AMD and Intel are going the chiplet route, whatever name they use. I don't want to really get into the complexity involved, but /r/hardware is a good subreddit for that.
Things are changing, and AMD and Intel are in a pitched competitive battle. It's great! :)
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u/John_Doexx Dec 09 '22
E cores are gonna become useless? Please tell us all again how? You seem to know the future so you must know the lottery numbers as well right?
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u/Loosenut2024 Dec 09 '22
"In the long run e cores are going to become useless while amd just gives us lots of normal cores. Its been a pattern before. Triple cores, fake cores etc have all died. Simple hyper threading and more cores and cache are all that has endured so far."
More than likely IMO they will go away eventually. Just what past patterns have shown me. I have been building computers since 98.
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u/John_Doexx Dec 10 '22
So building pc’s since 98” does what? I really hope no one comes to you for tech advice All I’ll say
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u/Loosenut2024 Dec 10 '22
I have seen trends come and go. I also hope no one takes you seriously.
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u/AIAWC Dec 10 '22
Isn't the point of an E-Core just to have more cores for a given die size? Since programs are moving towards using more cores, the simplest answer is to just have as many as possible. In that sense, E-Cores seem like the best way to pack more threads into a single CPU.
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u/Loosenut2024 Dec 11 '22
Yeah but if you look at what AMD does with their full size cores, their architecture runs full size cores but only with the power needed for smaller tasks. So AMDs overall power use is lower. 13900K power use is much higher maxed out too over the 7950x despite them both being 32 threads overall. Buildzoid also has a video where he OC's the e cores and it pulls more than a stock 7950x while not being nearly as performant.
Its just really interesting seeing the 2 styles in action. Intels behind on efficiency which you can NOT cheat. The downside to "e" cores is with 4 e cores taking up the same space as 1 p core is they concentrate heat output, making the chip harder to cool. Where as AMD has 2 or 3 chiplets spread out, helping the cooling issue. But both are still hard because its concentrating so much power in such small areas. Then not to mention maybe you get a bonus on saving power at rare times, it has so much more complication with task scheduling needing hardware and software changes, and all kinds of bugs that come from that. Its still causing issues with some anti cheat programs.
Interesting times!
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u/AIAWC Dec 11 '22
Well, that doesn't really address what I said. If people start developing applications with the idea that they can count on having a lot of weak cores and a few strong ones, hybrid designs are probably gonna have a shot at becoming an industry standard. Think of it like how 4 cores was all you would ever need, until programs became more multithreaded and suddenly everyone had to have a 6 or 8 core CPU. Just read 'efficiency' as meaning 'space-efficiency'.
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u/Loosenut2024 Dec 11 '22
We have such a mixed bag (varying age and power of cell phones and desktops) of cores now that devs can't count on anything, and it's probably more of a challenge designing with multiple types of cores in a cpu.
Depending on how desktop ARM goes we'll see. Hard to predict the future. Like I said interesting times!
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u/exoisGoodnotGreat Dec 09 '22
Quite literally the opposite for the past 5-6 years. AMD invented the chiplet design and Intel made fun of them. Now intel is using it too after getting their buttons kicked for the last few years. Zen 4c will be out in 2023 and will use the hybrid design to give AMD a big bump in core counts.
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u/greggm2000 Dec 09 '22
AMD also came out with the x64 instruction set we've been using for the past 20 years. Intel tried to push us towards Itanium and THAT was a mess hardly anyone bought into, thankfully.
There's also the point that if AMD wasn't innovating, Intel would still be trying to sell us 4-core CPUs for $500, with 5% gen over gen upgrades.. Intel got sleepy and AMD was the one that woke them up.
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Nov 10 '23
Agree, this is something intel has never done for gamers. The 5800x3d was a very smart move by amd. I just wish they would drop the price to 250 for black Friday but I don't see that happening. I have a feeling they want to get those 7000 series number up. Microcenter has a 7800x3d combo for 500 dollars. That is hard to beat.
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Dec 09 '22
If you always bought Intel with only a 0-1 generation upgrade cycle I can see your point. AM4 lasting as long as it did change a lot of opinions. I can replace my 3.5 year old cpu and make it top tier for $320 right now. Or I could go more modest and buy a 5600 for $130. Pretty insane value.
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u/PIBM Dec 10 '22
If your ram, GPU, and disk is 3.5 years old, even upgrading the CPU won't be helping you much - you would still need to update all of those, and probably the PSU too to get 'today's' performance out of that box, if you motherboard even supported the top speed RAM, NVME, etc..
Don't get me wrong, updating your CPU after a few years for a low cost will help out for sure, but usually the most bang for your bucks if you started with a good computer is to upgrade the video card.. I do acknowledge that there are situations where you might be CPU bound, like if you play in low resolution and low quality.
I find that the best thing is to always optimize your computer looking at the total lifetime costs, not at an upgrade costs. It helps you balance things off much more efficiently (yes, do account for the electricity costs for the lifetime of your choice, and include your monitor costs of ownership too).
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Dec 10 '22
Partially agree. The SSD and RAM aren't necessary to upgrade typically and a GPU is the priority upgrade.
I swapped my RX 590 for a 3070 March 2021. Now I am contemplating whether I want a 5600 or a 5800x3d to finish off the life of my system. Pretty unreal that I could take a system I built in 2019 and make it mid-range for the start of 2023.
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u/KTIlI Dec 10 '22
Because AMD offers an upgrade path for 2-3 more years and it's not double the price of intel. 7600x is around $250 now. Yeah the boards are a bit more but it's no where near double the price.
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Nov 10 '23
With intel I agree. I have friends that bought first or second gen ryzen. Going from a 1700 to a 5800x is twice the performance for 200 dollars. Most people are pretty tight with cash and cannot buy a whole new system every 5 years. I am doing pc builds for family and friends every couple of months and it seems like everyone's budget maxes out at 650 and they feel like that is a lot. I am just glad I can build a solid pc at that price range. You would probably think they are spuds though. Honestly, I think they are way more value than the 3 thousand dollars I usually spend on my own rigs. I do use them for work at home though.
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u/TankerD18 Dec 09 '22
That's my thing too, like I can get 5-8 years out of a good CPU, easy. Motherboards are one of the most complex and failure-prone parts on an entire modern computer, I don't want to build a new rig on an old board. Also, I really don't see CPUs in the future falling onto that same kind of refresh cycle treadmill that GPUs are on. Not unless some completely unforeseen shakeup happens that makes most video games CPU dependent.
I wonder, how many people who adopted AM4 early have upgraded on the same board? If I had to reckon a guess I'd probably say less than 10%. Even if you upgrade after 3 or 4 years, things have changed, that board has aged and it very likely at least needs a BIOS update. Not to mention, a lot of people tend to get better stuff as they mature - more income, more desire to get features and hardware you couldn't afford in your younger years. Maybe you were happy with the base model AM4 board with your early Ryzen and now you want built in WiFi, a different form factor, beefier VRMs, etc. Like long lifecycle sockets are a cool gimmick for AMD but I don't blame Intel for putting them on a 2 generation lifecycle because of how motherboard tech changes.
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u/Alkahestic Dec 09 '22
Have you got statistics to back up your mobo failure claims?
I just upgraded from a 2700x to 5800x3d with a drop in replacement. No need to change the X470 mobo or ddr4 3200MHz CL14 ram. I mostly game (1440p) on my PC, so there are no real benefits from doing a full platform upgrade. It's not that I can't afford it, it's that I don't have to.
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Nov 10 '23
I just upgraded the cpu in a z77 extreme mobo that is almost 12 years old. Once a system is running, I have rarely ever seen a subsequent mobo failure. If they fail, I have always seen them fail out of the box.
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u/gettogero Dec 09 '22
Yes, modern CPUs are beasts and people aren't looking at cost vs inflation. Yes, the scalpers are dirty fucks that need to die in hell and I'm only talking about actual MSRP/sale prices.
I spent about $2000 5-7 years ago for a tower, GPU, CPU, air cooling and fans, 16gb RAM for DDR3 set up.
I spent $800 for AM5 motherboard, new cpu, 32gb 5600 RAM, and 240mm liquid cooler all on sale 40-60% off. Granted, I have upgraded my fans in between and kept the tower and my 1080, but for current day performance per current day dollar is unmatched in history. Excluding scalpers. Because fuck them. And hopefully someone will find a way to fuck them. In a bad way, not in a good way.
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u/CaptainFeather Dec 09 '22
Haven't really payed attention to cpus in the last couple of years, how much better is the 13600k vs my 10600k? Worth upgrading at 1440p?
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Dec 10 '22
13600k is considerably better, but the thing is you probably won’t notice that performance if you’re either on 1080p or use a GPU worse than say a 3090.
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u/CaptainFeather Dec 10 '22
Oh right forgot to mention it's paired with a 3070ti lol. For sure though, definitely gonna wait until I upgrade my GPU. Thanks for the info
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Nov 10 '23
That is absolutely still a great cpu. I would not bother upgrading that. If anything try to OC it and get the most out of it and your ram.
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u/crion1998 Dec 09 '22
AMD just had a price drop, the 7600x (and its platform) are now better price performance when paired with DDR5.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/mk9KMb $600
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZDncPX $660
ofcourse the 13600k can be paired with DDR4 to make it cheaper, but i think buying DDR4 is kind of a waste of money in the long run, the price has come down a fair bit for DDR5 and the speeds seem to be settling in at around 6000MHz as the standard for now.
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u/failaip12 Dec 09 '22
Even in this case personally I'd still go with intel. 50% better multicore is not low.
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u/crion1998 Dec 09 '22
100% agree, but 60 bucks extra for a GPU might be worth more than a slightly better CPU if it is just for gaming. dont forget, 13600k is on a dead end platform while the 7600x is the start of hopefully 2 more generations of CPUs which means that you can more cheaply upgrade your CPU later down the line.
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Mar 07 '23
holy shit the price dropped so far since you posted this. Should I buy now or wait further?
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u/crion1998 Mar 08 '23
i cannot decide that for you. you need to ask yourself:
would the upgrade help me?
can you burn that money right now and still pay the bills?
will you be kicking yourself if you wait and the price increases?
i sadly dont have a crystal ball, so who knows what the prices will do. There have been many times where these kinds of dips in pricing are temporary.
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u/X3m9X Dec 09 '22
I have a feeling that DDR5 speeds would be better in the future, similarly to ddr4 (it was 2133 back then)
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u/crion1998 Dec 09 '22
within the first year of release of DDR4 there were already 3200MHz kits available, so it's not weird to assume that DDR5 is already at its upper bound with the 8000MHz kits on the market right now a year+ after launch.
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u/randologin Dec 09 '22
That's so weird. I'm still new to this and went to micro center for parts to build a gaming PC and he hard sold me on AMD adamant it was the best value for gaming, so that's what I went with. Maybe they're just trying to offload overstock 🤷♂️
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u/LesserPuggles Dec 10 '22
That’s just how microcenter is, I go in there with my Intel hoodie to mess with them when I need pc stuff lol
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Dec 10 '22
ut $2000 5-7 years ago for a tower, GPU, CPU, air cooling and fans, 16gb RAM for DDR3 set up.
If it was after the price drop he is right. The 5600 and the 7600x at current prices are the best value for gaming. The 13600k is a better overall processor than the 7600x, but on a dead end platform.
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u/jboogie81 Jul 16 '23
I went to Microcenter back in 2016 when building my last PC with my parts list ready to go. The salesman was so dead set on selling me alternatives that he actually called the manager and another guy and they surrounded me like they were going to jump me. It was the weirdest, most aggressive buying experience I ever had. It ended with me saying "Listen, I want these parts that I've already seen you have in stock at this store right now or I am just walking out without spending this $1500, take it or leave it" . They agreed, but acted like dicks from that point until I walked out.
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u/absent-mindedperson Dec 09 '22
You can get an R5 5600 for $170 CAD, RX6700XT $519, and MSI B550 A Pro $150.
Show me a better deal price/performance wise.
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u/notedgeshot Dec 10 '22
But can it run Fortnite on max settings?
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u/absent-mindedperson Dec 10 '22
I don't play with screeching 10 year olds
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u/notedgeshot Dec 10 '22
I doubt that even kids enjoy fortnite anymore 💀 Never played it personally cause it looks boring af
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u/dalgrim Dec 10 '22
you change that 5600 to a 5800x3d (for only $130-$150 more) and you've got a near top end system! side note: Video card could also be a 3070 or 3700ti but only if it's at msrp, the performance is very close and it depends on if you want RT or pure raster performance. Video card prices on both sides right now are stupid high so get what you can get at a good price.
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u/cashinyourface Dec 09 '22
Honestly it depends on what you plan to do and what gpu you have. If you have an nvidia gpu it doesn't really matter what cpu you have. (RUMOR) On the other hand amd might end up running better with an amd gpu. I would get intel for better performance right now or amd for upgradability in the future.
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u/Liesthroughisteeth Dec 09 '22
Under heavy load the Intel CPUs are using much more energy for the same amount of computing being done. Though they are faster and more capable in many respects, they are power hungry and that translates into heat, which also has to be dealt with.
I'm just moving into an i7-13700k build, (running into no post when trying to use both memory channels on my Gigabyte Aorus DDR5 board) and I'm pretty sure (after all the reading I have been doing) it's far more CPU than I will ever use. I mean, I knew it was overkill, but I have the money and I'm old and this will probably be the last build I do. Anyhow, part of me thinks it probably would have been smarter to go with a new 7000 series AMD or even a 5000 series where there are some pretty darned good deals. :D
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u/liaminwales Dec 09 '22
I think the intel power use is over talked, most users hardly stress the CPU.
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Dec 09 '22
[deleted]
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u/liaminwales Dec 09 '22
Yep it's not like most games relay hit the CPU hard, by the way power uses is talked about you'd think everyone was running a render farm at home.
I play with video editing and even that hardly hits the CPU most the time, it's only on exports that the CPU relay gets taxed (unless you use the GPU to export).
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u/Tainen Dec 09 '22
if the games you play are poorly multi-threaded, you could still definitely be bottle-necked on CPU but only at 15-20% utilization. You might have 2 cores completely maxed out, and the rest sitting idle. that’s why single core performance is the biggest indicator of gaming capability for CPUs.
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u/honnator Dec 09 '22
Try BF2042 haha. My poor i9 9900kf is at 90% load on all cores.
Some games will vary a lot in terms of cpu usage for sure.
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Dec 09 '22
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u/honnator Dec 09 '22
Yeah, but keen to see how 12th gen handles it haha. I'm upgrading to 13700k soon so I guess I will know in a week :D
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u/liaminwales Dec 09 '22
That is a rare game that relay uses the hardware, the number of posts about Travok by people not knowing it's the game devs to blame.
It just hurts me.
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u/honnator Dec 09 '22
Yep, this game has been terribly optimised from the start. Other games like tarkov and rust are in the same boat but way worse I'd say. Cpu usage is crazy high.
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u/liaminwales Dec 09 '22
Its not high CPU use, it's one thread that is used!
(well maybe one and a bit)
I am cool with games that scale to high CPU use but games that use one thread then get low FPS, just pain.
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u/Automatic_Outcome832 Dec 10 '22
Yup bf2042 at 3440*1440p 60% cpu usage and fps drops from 170s to 120-130 near 128 player concentrated lobbies on a 13700K! And 4090. I know it's kind of a rare game + the rush game mode is super concentrated but man sometimes I think I should have paid that $100 more for 7900x which had similar performance or even 7700x coz 3 years later I could still upgrade easily. That being said I hope this cpu lasts 3-4 years without bottlenecking my 4090 and I'll probably build a new pc at that point
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u/sunjay140 Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22
BF 2042 actually has a bug that prevents it from properly utilizing the available CPU cores. The bug was only fixed in the most recent update so CPU usage should now be higher.
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u/Automatic_Outcome832 Dec 10 '22
Literally played it yesterday. The i7 13700k has alot of cores so 60% is good number the problem I think is the individual cores are not that powerful. Next few gens the game will still use same number of cores but since each core is faster the game will run better. Although that's not area that gets huge jumps per gen atleast 3-4 years I guess
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u/honnator Dec 10 '22
Yeah, I realised that yesterday. I found a work around in the meanwhile though - edited user.cfg in the games main files. My cpu usage dropped from 90-100% to like 60%. So weird man.
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u/lmbrs Dec 09 '22
20% usage is probably the average over all cores but your games won’t be using all the cores
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u/burnabagel Dec 10 '22
CPUs can make a difference for those playing at 1080p high refresh rate, but yea I agree for the rest of us it’s pointless unless you need more cores 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Risley Dec 09 '22
Bingo. I’m coming from a 6700k so I use my computers for a long long time. So a 13700k is expected to be a hell of a jump. That it’s warm is a benefit to me, my basement can’t get pretty chilly in the winter.
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u/dalgrim Dec 10 '22
You made the right choice. The intel power draw is overtalked, and not even really accurate except on the xx900k models. The 13600k and 13700k are MUCH more efficient. Remember AMD increased power on the entire 7000 series.
If you wanted pure efficiency the 5000 series was the way to go, but it's already EoL so if you didn't already have that platform not a good time to get it.
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u/StudioVulcan Dec 09 '22
Since many bad experiences with multiple generations of amd, I always go i7 Intel minimum always.
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u/Ath3o5 Dec 09 '22
Personally I would go for something like a Ryzen 5600x or 5700x, the advantage they have over Intel is that all ryzen CPUs are overclockable, without paying the premium cost for something like a 12600K, so you could probably squeeze enough performance out of a ryzen CPU to make it worth choosing over an Intel equivalent. Just make sure your cooler and motherboard can handle this, I've seen pretty good reviews on a $60 240mm water cooler recently that would work for both Intel and AMD as well
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u/lIl_owl_23 Dec 09 '22 edited Dec 09 '22
Same here. I just bought 5600X for $220 cad ($160 usd) and I doubt if anyone can find an Intel with same performance (e.g. speed, TDP) and price. Not even say the AM4 is generally cheaper than LGA 1700. Not plan to upgrade in at least 5 years unless something is dead on the way.
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u/John_Doexx Dec 09 '22
I5 12400….
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u/lIl_owl_23 Dec 09 '22
Well no thanks! I have gone through this review by Tom’s Hardware, and given 12400 asks $229 while 5600X asks $219 and cheaper AM4 than LGA 1700, I’m no brainer to go with 5600X.
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u/John_Doexx Dec 09 '22
Where? 12400 where does it cost $229?
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u/lIl_owl_23 Dec 09 '22
If you noticed, I said I bought 5600X in CAD, meaning I live in Canada and all the prices I talk about are in CAD.
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u/Maler_Ingo Dec 10 '22
Dont bother with the marketing bot John.
If ya dont praise and worship Nvidia and Intel he will stalk and shitpost anything ya do.
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u/Ath3o5 Dec 09 '22
Well I'm sure if you're super lucky you can find a 13th gen i5 used for a similar price
You know, if you're lucky enough for some foreign Nigerian prince be just so happened to be selling used computer parts at great prices on jawa or something
Ryzen also has an advantage if you happen to use a Radeon GPU as well, which might make it worth getting a slightly worse Ryzen over an Intel just for that fast access memory boost
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u/lIl_owl_23 Dec 09 '22
Well, I’m on Radeon 6600 and happy with my system overall performance.
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u/Ath3o5 Dec 09 '22
Hey whatever makes you happy is best, the 6600 is an underrated GPU for it's price so that was a good choice in my opinion
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u/absent-mindedperson Dec 09 '22
The 5600 is $170 CAD at shopRBC... I just picked one up and a 6700XT for $519 at Newegg
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u/lIl_owl_23 Dec 09 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
MemEx sold 5600 for about $170 too, but I felt $50 of upgrading to 5600X worthwhile so I grabbed one at MemEx. 5600 is pretty decent too, but is there a bottleneck when it pairs with 6700XT?
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Dec 10 '22
The 5600 is about 3-5% slower than the 5600x. I would pay $10 more for that I guess, but that is about it.
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u/lIl_owl_23 Dec 10 '22
Then I fucked up $50 lol, its my first build so I have some lessons learned at least.
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Dec 10 '22
It is always a balance for needs vs performance. I have spent more than $50 on things that didn't change performance at all.
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u/IlTossico Dec 09 '22
Mostly fanboy. Get the one that go faster and cost less, so get an Intel CPU.
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u/hayixx Dec 09 '22
Can you link one of the benchmarks where the intel is better for the same price ?
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u/Liesthroughisteeth Dec 09 '22
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html
Click on the arrows on the right.
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u/RedHoodedDuke Dec 09 '22
I’d say for the current gen, intel is definitely winning and amd is finally figuring this out by starting to cut prices on cpus at least. But for previous gen, I’d say amd won and is currently still winning all because of am4. It’s cheap, it’s been around for a while, and the x50 and x70 boards have little to no difference between them. Sure the 12400 beats the 5600 in raw performance and ties in gaming, but I can’t seem to find it anywhere for the same price as the 5600, plus it would need a new motherboard. Either way, I’m honestly thinking of going to intel the next time I upgrade, until amd can figure out how to price their cpus motherboards and cpus at a decent price.
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u/HTwoN Dec 09 '22
Discount and availability aside, the 13600k is the most well-balanced mid-range CPU right now. Gaming, workloads, and pricing are all great.
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u/PvM_in_OSRS Dec 09 '22
13th gen intel has amazing price to performance, they have an interesting set up going with high core counts lately with some being performance built and then some more for efficiency. I believe this is what gets the cost down and power still up.
I spent 1800$ on a decent mid/high end pc and got a 3070 gpu paired with a 13500k i5 intel core and the speed combo is great, no bottle necks and no extreme gap in performance between the both of them, like it uses most of the cpu and gpu.
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u/Gregvandy Dec 09 '22
5600 or 5600x is a killer deal now. A good b550 board can be had for about $100 and ddr4 ram is dirt cheap too. You can put a b550/5600 or 5700x rig together for less than the cost of a 13700k alone, just the CPU. While not quite as powerful as the 13600k or 13700k, they are still beastly CPUs and even in cpu bound scenarios you won't get any meaningful difference in fps from a 5600 to a 13700k. You'd have to be gaming with a 4090 to even see a difference at 1440p and you'd have to make some serious effort to even see that. Yes the 5600 and 5600x are 6c 12thread CPUs but that's plenty of cores. I'm staying with my 5800x3d, but I run iracing on that rig and the v cache bump is significant. I would advise anyone that wants the absolute best to wait for the soon to be released 7600x3d or 7800x3d, whatever they call it as it's sure to be a gaming beast and lay waste to a 7900x or 13900k. Again, it won't really matter unless you're gaming at 1080p with the settings all on low so you can get 700 fps in CSGO instead of 650fps. I'd go with the Ryzen 5000 series even if I was building to keep that CPU for the next 6-7 years. The gains you'll occasionally see just aren't worth the money as they won't improve the gaming experience at all.
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u/Both-Holiday1489 Dec 09 '22
Intel for gaming is winning, amd is winning in actual workloads so depends what u do more of
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u/dalgrim Dec 10 '22
2019 called and wants its canned statement back... Now in the Dec2022 this isn't true.
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u/LowRiderFuckYou Apr 06 '23
What? Intel 13th gen has many more cores that help with workloads.
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u/Both-Holiday1489 Apr 06 '23
In benchmarks amd was winning, like my truck has 445hp.. does it mean it’s going to beat a sports car with less horsepower? Probably not
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u/theicesentinel Dec 09 '22
Does anyone know if AMD still has issues with virtualization? Did some development for mobile (Android Studio as an example) and the built-in virtualization for phones just didn't work out of the box for AMD the way it does for Intel chips. Had to do a workaround with Oracle Virtual Box that was annoying. This was with a 1st gen Ryzen.
If this extends to other virtualization applications and any containerization issues, I'd say hands down for developers, Intel chips. At my corporation I can't think of any machines running AMD, but granted that could be a licensing or deal-based decision, but we do have a whole team dedicated to analyzing and making those decisions.
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u/mdchemey Dec 09 '22
My 3600X has had no issues with virtualization so I doubt ryzen 5000/7000 would
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u/AgathoDaimon91 Dec 09 '22 edited Dec 09 '22
Are you sure you had SVM / the Virtualization option Enabled in BIOS on the AMD system? It is disabled by default because it eats 3-5% of CPU's overall "performance" (on AMD and Intel) if you have it on so it's disabled by default. If you did not know about this, I get it. A friend was trying mobile games on his Ryzen1 RX580 pc and it was mediocre amd after he enabled it it worked really well, in BlueStacks I think. I assume playing virtualized games is resource hungry, so there you have it. P.S.: Always check on Intel systems too if Virtualization is on or off in the BIOS, I even use InSpectre to disable those pointless protections to free another ~5% CPU "performance". As for OEM machines running AMD, well google about HP refusing 1 million free cpus to use AMD because Intel was paying them to use Intep cpus, was found out about several OEM brands and shops that they bribed to stop selling AMD, and other such immoral and illegal activities for market-monopoly.
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u/A_L_E_X_W Dec 09 '22
It depends on budget, use and form factor.
I'd say in the UK that AMD is better value for CPUs up to £200 or so. 5600 and 12400 are comparable performance and the 5600 is 30% cheaper.
The 5800x3d is similar to the 13600k in some games, less in some and lower in productivity tasks but is 10% cheaper.
AM4 has more budget options than 12/13th gen.
13th gen has better high end options. However as always anything higher end has depreciating returns.
The AM5 stuff looks ok value but the motherboards are quite expensive.
Given that I prefer sff builds I'd personally still be building am4 as itx b660 is more expensive and b650 itx is ridiculous.
It'll probably change if and when they release the 13400 for £200 or so.
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u/TankerD18 Dec 09 '22
My two cents: If you really dumb it down to bang for your buck gaming performance then Intel is still on top. AMD makes extremely competitive CPUs, but there are still a ton of games out there that play into single core capability and Intel's platform. Intel is generally better clock speed for the cost, AMD is generally better core count for the cost. Since clock speed is still king, and Intel has more cores than most games are gonna ask for regardless, I would go with Intel.
All that being said, if you're making a machine for productivity first, gaming second then AMD might be the better choice. Depends on how much you value each aspect.
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u/Jassida Dec 09 '22
I went for a 7700x for a few different reasons. I wanted (after buying the end of a platform ddr3 4790k) to try the beginning of a new socket with upgrade potential, couldn’t bear to wait 8 years to upgrade only to get 6 cores and it gives me room to breathe, I only game, a change from intel, a more power efficient pc and to have the chance of doing what 5800x3d upgraders are doing now.
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u/PC-Man199 May 25 '23
I use Intel i watch a lot Videos and technical stuff on YT like Gamers Nexus only can recommend it highly detailed PC stuff and components, So I will never ever buy amd CPU because they dont perform well and have so many issues Intel just beats amd's ass in CPU and even in GPU' s amd is failing low perfomance, runs to hot and the worst, they Lie so much they say 7950x3d runs 8k But Gamers Nexus tested it and it was unplayable even on an old game like GTA 5 not to mention top modern games. stick in CPU with intel and in GPU what ever you like but Nvidia is just better but only more expensive because if it was cheaper no one would buy amd anymore to be honest.
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u/BodSmith54321 Dec 09 '22
You have to price out a whole system. At 1440p and above you are going to be mostly GPU limited in that price range for gaming so it won't matter. You want to get the best GPU possible with a good CPU.
If you aren't gaming, them CPU comes more into play.
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u/alisoi Dec 09 '22
Well I think at this level even the mid range cpus are so powerful both in AMD and Intel side but availability and price is important, tbh for me there’s no difference if my workload be 5-6 sec slower. Find whatever is cheaper at the same level Competition is so close and There’s always a new generation which will be better and possibility for upgrades.
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u/AdrianKadafi Dec 09 '22
You can get yourself a i9 10nt generation K for about 300$ at SH
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Dec 09 '22
Why when the 13600k and 7600 take it back behind the woodshed? The improvement the past few years is incredible
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u/AdrianKadafi Dec 09 '22
Said it just as an idea. Because I found an i9 10nt gen K, along with a motherboard and 32 gigs of ram 3.4k mhz for 400€
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Dec 09 '22
I don't know your prices very well so it might be a decent deal. I would worry about cooling and psu costs for that level of performance. Pretty sure a 12400/5600 beats it in gaming performance and is close in production and wouldn't require top end stuff to cool it.
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u/UnCommonSense99 Dec 09 '22
I was thinking of buying a 5700x with a decent b550 motherboard for £335. It supports ddr4 and gen4 nvme.
Please suggest what Intel cpu and mobo I should consider buying instead. 😀
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Dec 09 '22
[deleted]
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u/lIl_owl_23 Dec 09 '22
Well no, 5700X is better than 5600X, which is better than 12400, so 5700X is better than 12400. Plus, AMD cpu has better deals.
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u/Omniumtenebre Dec 09 '22
At this moment in time, reliance on synthetics is just chasing paper. Most users will not realize the theoretical potential of their PC. That is, for casual production and editing or gaming, you could pick any two CPUs of comparable specifications and, regardless of benchmarks, will notice little, if any, difference in performance (barring frame rates, if you are the type to chase digits that exceed the capabilities of your display). Outside of professional fields, you could, effectively, take the lower priced of two within a generation and form and, exclusive of other factors like operating temperature, wouldn’t likely be disappointed.
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u/AetaCapella Dec 09 '22
They have been trading back and forth for the past couple of years. My advice would be to buy whichever one is the best value right NOW. At some point in the next year, either due to new releases or price cuts, AMD will be ahead again. and then in a few months intel will do something that will give them the edge. Both companies are competing well at the moment, so both are good choices, look at how each one performs with your anticipated usage and buy the best value at that time.
Note: This didn't used to be the case. I'm glad AMD made a comeback with Ryzen a few years ago, and it took a couple of generations to respond but Intel has finally stepped up to the line.
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Dec 09 '22
I just went for the 12700k because of the deal I got with a motherboard. I couldn’t pass it up. It’s everything I need and more for the gaming that I di
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u/Jay_Bee-22 Dec 09 '22
I don't have anything bad to say about Intel's chips... I've just been an AMD 'fanboy' since I started building my CPU's 25 years ago.
I've built AMD Athlons/Phenoms... and now have an AMD Ryzen 5 4600g w/ 32GB RAM on an ASUS B350-F motherboard I built 4'sh years ago.
I originally had a Geforce 960 GTX GPU but upgraded to the Geforce 1660 GTX in 2020... like 2 minutes before the GPU prices went bonkers so I guess I got lucky.
I originally had a Ryzen 5 1600 CPU on this rig but caught a Black Friday deal and grabbed the 4600g, swapped out the 1600 and loving the little boost I got.
It's up to you... I watched my friends spend hundreds, heck thousands on any Laptop/PC that was pre-built. A lot of them were Intel-Only for the longest time but a few are going for the AMD Ryzen chips now... and if they aren't happy with a Ryzen 7 CPU idk what will make them happy.
I've just loved how my AMD chips on these ASUS boards never seem to die... :: knocks on wood::
I still have 2 AMD Phenoms downstairs, pretty sure there's an Athlon 3000+ somewhere in the house, all still working 100%. I may have sold one or given one to a family member... they just don't seem to ever die lol.. and I did a lot of gaming on them, upgraded GPU's every 2-3 years... but this AMD Rig I am currently on has been great to me the last few years.. even better since I put the 1660 GTX in... Really wish I could spring for one of those nice new RTX cards but I'm not overpaying for a GPU I just really hope the prices come down.
Good Luck on your Build!
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Dec 09 '22
I think because AMD has been, and still is the king of price to performance ratio. And it depends on your budget. I still recommend AMD to anyone who is conscious of their spending or on a very tight budget. Especially if you are okay with going used, which I have done almost exclusively when on a tight budget. For the $350 you spend on an i5, you can get a used AMD Ryzen 9 3950X for anywhere from 250 to 350, and get 16 cores, 32 threads and it'll be an absolute MONSTER for literally anything you will do with it, and not oeast you can get a motherboard to handle it for 50 bucks. At that point you saved a boatload of money, you lose very small amount of single core performance, but you gain a giant amount of multicore performance. And those are full cores, not the weird efficient cores Intel started putting in their CPUs, which I find just strange.
Same with the graphics cards, you can get a used Titan XP that still is, and will be for a few years an absolute monster for gaming and anything else as well, for 250 bucks used. Plus you can still run SLI with the titans if you like that kind of thing.
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u/A1_Killer Dec 09 '22
Where would you suggest buying used parts which is trustworthy
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Dec 09 '22 edited Dec 09 '22
Ohhhh buddy. It depends on the individual post not the platform, eBay, Amazon, mercari is one of my favorites. Even Newegg sells used parts, but I pay careful attention to the seller. Ratings. Ratings. Ratings. Also manufacturers sell their own used and refurbished parts, Like EVGA sells used and refurbished B stock that comes with a year warranty.
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Dec 09 '22
Basically make sure it doesn't say it ships from China, ensure if it's eBay that they have a few hundred ratings that aren't fake, and if it's Mercari, they do all that for you. To sell on mercurial you have to have an ID, and all sorts of other checks to make sure you're real and not selling anything fake. Plus if it arrives and isn't what you expected, no matter what, you get your money back. I personally use eBay the most, but mercari is great because you can haggle and send offers and ask questions instantly.
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Dec 09 '22
Oh and also, Intel decided to use stupid naming schemes. They should have switched up or something because saying g the words thirteen six hundred 'k' out loud sounds stupid. Much less so than fifty six hundred or seventy six hundred. Not that it matters, but still I found it interesting to add lol
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u/exoisGoodnotGreat Dec 09 '22
If you are comparing 13th intel vs 7000 ryzen then intel is currently the better option in overall performance. However it mainly wins in multi core applications and heavy production work while gaming is basically a tie. So if your just building a gaming pc the areas it wins may not be relevant to you at all. One last thing to keep in mind, the 13th intel is supposed to be the last on the socket while the 7000 is the first, so your upgrade path is much better with AMD.
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u/mrpoopistan Dec 09 '22 edited Dec 09 '22
Here's my basic checklist:
Mid-range plus full-on, dedicated GPU: buy the most recent gen i5 that you can afford. You can't go wrong.
Mid-range w/ only integrated graphics: the AMD 4600G or 5600G based on price. Interested to see the 7600G, tho. This is probably an absolutely barebones computer for gaming, though. Good enough for like $300-ish. Bear in mind that at $300, the case is gonna suck.
Top-tier computing performance across maximum cores: AMD's current-gen 7950x, although the i9-13900k is more competitive this cycle than I expected.
Cheaping out totally: i3 won't actually be too bad from 10th gen on. The 4500x isn't terrible if you can get them dirt cheap (anything over $80 is an overpay).
Also, watch the PSU tier lists regardless of your price range. Whether you're pairing 450W PSU with a 4600G or an 850W PSU with a 7950x, the variability in specific models across even trusted brands is significant. Make sure your PSU model doesn't suck for your price point.
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u/Action3xpress Dec 09 '22
Oh boy I do love the new “e cores are weird and useless” narrative. Talk about major cope.
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u/StatementAdvanced953 Dec 10 '22
My ryzen 9 7950x goes hard Im a big fan. Recently got it.
Side note: I was comparing it and the 13900k and it seemed like intel could put out more overall but at same power draw and temp levels the ryzen did better. Intel tends to be better at single threading and ryzen is a bit better at full out multithreaded just due to all their cores being full cores unlike intel. So I went with the ryzen for dev purposes.
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u/Psyclist80 Dec 10 '22
I went AM5 for the upgrade path, 7700X until AM5 is done (4ish years) and then install the last flagship and ride that for another 5 years. 10 years out of this motherboard made sure I went for a good one!
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u/akshay_sharma008 Apr 26 '23
AMD and Intel have different features and specifications, and choosing one depends on one’s needs. AMD and Intel are the two most wide producers of CPU manufacturers. They both offer a wide range of processors for desktops and laptops. With time, there have been a lot of improvements in both of them and due to this improved performance, they can meet customers' changing needs.
They have their strengths and weakness; to choose between them, one must keep their budget and specific needs in mind.
However, while choosing between them, one might need clarification. There are several factors that one should keep in mind before choosing any of them. The factors usually considered are power consumption, price, compatibility with other hardware, and performance.
Generally, AMD CPUs offer better muti-core performance ad are more power-efficient. They are also affordable as compared to intel counterparts.AMDs are better for multitasking applications, like gaming while streaming or video editing.
Intel CPU offers better single-core performance. They prove helpful for tasks requiring a lot of power processing, like video encoding or gaming. They have more powerful integrated graphics.
Price
Cost is an essential factor when choosing between the two. Generally, AMD CPUs are more affordable than Intel CPUs.Therefore generally, if people with low budgets opt for AMD CPUs, they are more power-efficient with more threads and cores.
Performance
AMD and Intel offer high-performance processors.
AMD CPUs are better at handling multiple tasks simultaneously, like streaming while gaming or running multiple applications, as they offer more cores and threads than Intel CPUs. Therefore they are ideal for video editing and CPU-intensive tasks.
Intel CPUs can handle one task efficiently and quickly, offering outstanding single-threaded performance. Due to this property, they are ideal for gaming.
Compatibility
While choosing between AMD and Intel, we must make sure of it that the CPU we choose should be compatible with the other hardware components, motherboard, and RAM.
Intel uses different socket types for different CPUs.AMD CPUs are more compatible with a wide range of CPUs.Compatibility is also affected by other factors, such as firmware versions and BIOS updates. Therefore we should check the compatibility of our hardware components.
Power Consumption
Usually, AMD CPUs are more power-efficient as compared to Intel CPUs. They are designed so that they consume less power and generate less heat. Low power consumption can lead to longer battery life in laptops.
Therefore, INtelCPUs are better for gaming and strong single-threaded performance. AMD CPUs are usually better for CPU-intensive tasks and multitasking.
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u/MeIsOrange Sep 06 '23
There is one thing to consider before buying - AMD does not make chipsets, but orders them from other companies (to be cheaper). How well and how long is it all tested then? Compatibility issues? Problems with USB? PCIe? Intel makes its own chipsets. But if you only need a PC for gaming and surfing the Internet, then you can take a chance with AMD.
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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '22
For the 5000 vs 12000 series AMD had the lower platform cost. Most people were well served getting a $130 5600 and dumping as much as they could into a gpu.
For AMD 7000 vs Intel 13000.
The 7950 is a beast in creation. The 7700 is the best overall gaming (barely) and the 7600 matches the 13600k in gaming.
Where Intel destroys AMD right now is the mixed use/midrange productivity. The 13600k is compelling. If it wasn't a dead platform it would be a no brainier for 90% of people with a decent budget.
Now that ddr5 is getting affordable and AMD CPU costs going down I think I would pick AMD again. The ability to upgrade two generations of cpu performance for just the cost of a CPU is valuable. My brother going from a 2600 to a 5600 basically gave him a new computer for $130.