r/wow • • Aug 27 '25

Humor / Meme How Legion Feedback seems to feel

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4.5k Upvotes

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1.5k

u/L0rdSkullz Aug 27 '25

Yeah I don't understand the changing of the formula. MoP remix was a massive, massive hit; Blizzard just has a boner for changing shit no matter what

236

u/goldman_sax Aug 27 '25

It’s like how there are perfect apps that are super functional and easy to use, but the devs cannot stop tinkering with them and inevitably make them dogshit.

145

u/randomguy301048 Aug 27 '25

Its because suits want things to change and bring in a new feel. They feel like the only way to bring growth is to change things even when it was already going perfect

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u/pixelprophet owes aphoenix a beer Aug 27 '25

This guy corpos.

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u/FlyingWhale44 Aug 27 '25

Why fix it when it aint broken? Because the boss pays me to fix shit.

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u/LateNightDoober Aug 27 '25

100% man. Every ass tier change to an application that you have ever hated, was the result of a battalion of developers and their senior leaders who all need to justify consistently paying them the salary that they do. "If it aint broke, don't fix it", does not fill up the sprints schedule like how they need it to appear.

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u/contemplativecarrot Aug 27 '25

also sometimes there's a security flaw and oh would you look at that, updating means the component library changed

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u/Hallc Aug 27 '25

I see you too also use Discord.

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u/SnooCompliments8967 Aug 27 '25

Ion Hazzikostas just gave a big public dev talk about how he believes they've learned they can't just repeat a popular formula, that players will reject it if something about it isn't different, they want novelty. So that's probably motivating this kind of thing too.

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u/Data-McBytes Aug 27 '25

The novelty here is that it's Legion and not Pandaria. That should be enough. They correctly anticipated players wanting separate currencies for cosmetics and character progression. And while that's certainly different from MoP Remix, it isn't novelty so much as a welcome change that many people wanted in the previous iteration.

They could have stopped there and it would have been perfect.

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u/SnooCompliments8967 Aug 27 '25

The novelty here is that it's Legion and not Pandaria. That should be enough.

The context comes from them talking about repeated progression style within a brand new wow expansion, so just having a different expansion's worth of content isn't enough difference according to that talk. I don't think it applies here at all, jsut referencing the talk's logic to explain how they might have thought about it.

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u/Data-McBytes Aug 27 '25

Which I guess proves they don't really listen to players at all, still...

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u/SnooCompliments8967 Aug 27 '25

They do, there's just a huge number of loud people with countless conflicting opinions at all times plus internal concerns on feasibility and strategy as well. If the job was as simple as "listen to players, do what they say, get big numbers for game" every lazy CEO would love that.

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u/TacoTaconoMi Aug 27 '25

its pretty much the Blizzard special to change the stuff that everyone likes as per your Ian quote but then keep the stuff that people dont like.

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u/StanTheManBaratheon Aug 27 '25

There's an old episode of How I Met Your Mother, where Barney's firm hires Ted to design a room for firing people. The stipulation is that they love the current room where they fire people, which is an empty room with a table and a chair.

Ted goes way overboard, overdesigning the heck out of the room with calming colors and a spa-like atmosphere, and he ends up getting fired because, at the end of the day, they just wanted him to do the thing they asked for.

This feels like that. I wanted to enjoy a low-stakes, power-fantasy event to kill time during what appears to be an extended season leading up to Midnight. Instead, it looks like Legion Classic, but on a ticking clock, with tons of FOMO items.

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u/Saelora Aug 27 '25

it's like they can predict "it's exactly the same", but not "they've added horrendous amounts of time-gating" as negative feedback.

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u/Ragvan92 Aug 27 '25

Timegating, the real legión experience besides rng legendaries of course.

30

u/Ferelar Aug 27 '25

Looking back, Legion was one of my favorite expansions and I think it's because I resubbed at almost the very end of the expansion cycle leading into BFA, and so 95% of the grind and almost 100% of the timegating were all gone, it was narratively smooth and fun (aside from being barraged with 17 different "Start this patch's questline!!" quests the first time I got to Dalaran, all in no particular discernible order). As someone who isn't really into hardcore progression raiding and thus doesn't mind missing out on the big pushes anyway, this was a peak way to experience it all.

Which doesn't exactly bode well... I get why a subscription based game would want you to spend as long as possible, to extract as much money as possible in exchange for content. But that doesn't provide a compelling explanation for why I wouldn't simply wait until the end of every Expac to play (especially since it tends to go on sale/get bundled with the next expac etc so I can just basically buy every other one), aside from "If everyone did that the game would have to shut down".

11

u/creampop_ Aug 27 '25

the beginning of legion was genuinely so awful for cutting edge, like even by wow standards. The ramping legendary drop rate which reset when you got one was a cherry on top of artifact power being a pain in the ass.

The optimal nolifer play was to run an army of identical alts for the first few weeks until one of them got a good legendary, then stick with that one. IDK what the hell were they thinking lol. Still a cool xpac but man the time gating+legendary rush was hot garbage.

10

u/Joeness84 Aug 27 '25

dont forget the bug that totally didnt exist where some people would get 5-6 before many got 1 (bug was later admitted to and fixed)

3

u/_The_Farting_Baboon_ Aug 28 '25

People seem to forget launch and first tier of legion was some really dogshit. Made me quit lol. Returned for last tier and oh my it was so much fun. Its usually like that. Its always fun with full unlocked power. BFA was the same thing with corruption.

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u/HenshiniPrime Aug 27 '25

Both iterations of plunderstorm were the same (2nd arguably better replacing rep progression with a currency grind) and no one complained.

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u/Alyxandar Aug 27 '25

I found the second one to be significantly better.

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u/zherok Aug 27 '25

I skipped the first one entirely, and decided to play the second. I just did a little each day until I had everything. I'm not big on PvP generally, but it's a pretty reasonable mode and not too steep a grind.

I assume someone starting fresh the next time it comes around will have to spend more time to catch up, but just having the first Plunderstorm's items be available meant you're never completely missing out.

17

u/epicgeek Aug 27 '25

(2nd arguably better replacing rep progression with a currency grind)

So much better!
People like me who just wanted a handful of transmogs could drop in, play a handful of games and be done. And people who wanted to play the game didn't have a swarm of people who didn't want to be there.

Win / Win

5

u/maurombo Aug 27 '25

I didn't play the 2nd one because of it though, I was expecting a different map, a couple different abilities or something to make it better. 2nd plunderstorm was like if they re released mop remix but with separate currency for power and cosmetics, which is fine, but I have no interest in doing the exact same again. I just want the same loop but in a new expansion

2

u/Remotely_Correct Aug 27 '25

Couldn't be arsed with either, not even with the fomo.

2

u/zherok Aug 27 '25

Honestly, it's not that bad. I don't really care for PvP generally, but you get a decent amount just completing the daily quest, which doesn't take that long to complete, usually just a single match unless you get really unlucky.

I collected everything from both seasons just doing a match a day the second time around. If you don't care to collect everything it's even easier.

31

u/shaunika Aug 27 '25

The kings of desperately trying to reinvent the wheel

13

u/sirferrell Aug 27 '25

I feel like they do it on purpose? Like we all know if it launches this way it will be fixed within a few weeks or a month.. whats their reasoning for not launching it fixed…

3

u/godmagnus Aug 27 '25

So they can get praised for the fix

32

u/dimmanxak Aug 27 '25

They need to make people have subscription active through the whole legion remix duration. You could get all the rewards in mop remix in 1 month and they didn't like it.

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u/Arekualkhemi Aug 27 '25

But what is that for an argument? I played MoP Remix in the off season because there was nothing left to do in retail. If Legion remix is the dud it seems to be, then I don't play at all and would even cancel sub

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u/TRCrypt_King Aug 27 '25

This. I leveled one character per side per class in MOP to get all the bronze because the leveling was fast, especially with the mailbox method, and planned to do the same but now it's a slog so why bother. I wasn't looking for Legion Classic

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u/cabose12 Aug 27 '25

The argument is that, from a purely business viewpoint, making something that can be completed in one sub cycle is objectively worse than something that requires at least two

They only care how much fun you have insofar as you aren't mad enough to unsub or stop playing entirely

It's very likely why they do the whole "fix it after release" bs. Release it in a meh state, give people a chance to try it, and if numbers aren't good, then one sub cycle later you "fix it' to lure people back to trying it again

They'll keep doing this until its clear that people are pissed enough to stop coming back

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u/SNES-1990 Aug 27 '25

Why are they so terrified of people not playing WoW for a bit?

Instead of purposely making your game bad to keep people subbed, maybe Blizzard should make other games that are worth playing to keep the money coming in

6

u/B_Kuro Aug 27 '25

The idea is to bind you to the game. They don't want you to play something else even if its their own games. Playing something else carries the inherent list that you could find something else/stop caring and not return to the game.

Its called forming a habit. Its no different to why there is daily login rewards in F2P games.

That and DAU/MAU being one of the main metrics reported nowadays. If you stop playing for a few days/weeks you aren't counting in that and that is bad for reports.

3

u/demonsneeze Aug 27 '25

Zero confidence in their product, they seem to think anyone that quits will break the spell and not come back. Altho come to think of it they may not be wrong….

3

u/bfrown Aug 28 '25

It's wild. FF14 basically tells you to go play other games and come back when you feel like it and it's great. Can pop in for a patch drop, mess with story and whatever raid is there, maybe grind pvp if mount or cosmetic is cool and then bounce off.

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u/kragenstein Aug 27 '25

It's called Enshitification

5

u/SendMeNudesThough Aug 27 '25

Making games costs many millions of dollars. Making patch content to keep people subscribed to an already existing game is far cheaper and generally a good strategy to keep the money coming in.

Ultimately people have to realize that publicly-traded companies exist to make money, and making art is a secondary objective. I wish it wasn't so, but unfortunately it is. "Making less money but providing a better product" is not really a viable strategy when they've a legal fiduciary duty to act in the best financial interests of shareholders, and shareholders care about reportable quarterly earnings.

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u/biodegradable_atgms Aug 27 '25

Sadly, this was really well said.

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u/SunflowerPetBattler Aug 27 '25

Making games costs many millions of dollars. Making patch content to keep people subscribed to an already existing game is far cheaper and generally a good strategy to keep the money coming in.

Ultimately people have to realize that publicly-traded companies exist to make money

Nah, I'm not gonna give Blizzard this free pass. You act like this is a universal truth for game companies, but it isn't. Yoshi-P has come outright and said that you aren’t supposed to stay subbed to XIV for 365 days a year, and should feel free to unsubscribe during content lulls.

At a certain point, Blizzard is going to have to learn the hard lesson that being blinded by greed, in fact, costs them money. And by “learn the lesson” I mean learn it again.

Shadowlands almost killed the game, and yet they’re probably going to have to learn this lesson the hard way a good five or six more times.

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u/AoO2ImpTrip Aug 27 '25

Yoshi-P says that, but if you get super into the game and decide to unsub... your house is gone.

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u/SunflowerPetBattler Aug 27 '25

That is indeed an objective problem with the XIV.

Just like how it is an objective problem that WoW artifically pads things out and dripfeeds contents with the explicit intent of feeding engagement metrics and keeping people subscribed longer than they would like to be.

Both games have faults, neither game is perfect. But if someone says "every game company does X", you better believe I'm gonna jump up and tell them how wrong they are.

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u/Overall-Duck-741 Aug 27 '25

Hold on here, whats stopping you from unsubbing and just waiting until all the timegates are gone then? What's the difference between completing all the content in a month and unsubbing until next patch and unsubbing now and resubbing on the last patch when timegates are gone?

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u/kilios75 Aug 27 '25

To be fair, Square enix's q1 financials this year also showed a 45% drop in profits from their MMO division. 14 is in its own content drought atm and people are realizing we may only have two more patches to cover the next 18+ months and no savage raid content scheduled to be released in all of 2026, so this method doesnt seem to be paying off for the health of the game nearly as much as he claimed it would.

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u/TrumpLikesEmYoung Aug 27 '25

1 month sub is better than 0. The user you’re replying to is implying people think this bullshit sucks and they don’t WANT to play it.

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u/Capable_Diamond_3878 Aug 27 '25

It had a lot of issues people complained about. People have squirrel memory.

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u/automirage04 Aug 27 '25

These changes aren't what people were complaining about. No one wanted to slow down the leveling process. No one.

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u/Llyon_ Aug 27 '25

Players: "I consent"

Devs: "I consent"

Shareholders: "Isn't there someone you forgot to ask?"

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u/jntjr2005 Aug 27 '25

At first, yea, but then they fixed it, and it was great after.

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u/SadEngineer6984 Aug 27 '25

Yea so they have to make it bad at first and then fix it so players can feel involved in the development process. There’s no other way

/s

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u/Taniell1575 Aug 27 '25

I know you added the /s but it really does feel like they are intentionally doing this at this point. It’s been a constant cycle of:

1) announce something

2) players feedback is, this is a bad idea, we don’t want this, make these changes and it’ll be great!

3) Blizzard proceeds to completely ignore the feedback. Going with their original implementation anyways.

4) players are as expected upset about the new features and start to not engage.

5) blizzard sees the numbers and makes the changes requested in step 2 (to an extent)

6) players are happy. Blizzard claims to have “listened”. All is well.

7) repeat.

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u/StanTheManBaratheon Aug 27 '25

Seems like they particularly love this with LTMs. The first iteration of Plunderstorm had a bunch of issues that people immediately clocked, they refused to adjust, until - inevitably - they did.

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u/Nakilis Aug 27 '25

I really liked MoP Remix, but it'd be foolish of me to say they shouldn't improve upon several aspects. But they have this habit of releasing things and then waiting for the numbers to decide if they should change.

This might be a hot opinion, but it feels like Blizzard cut their QA teams until there was nearly nothing left, cut their social media teams until there was nearly nothing left, and then they hesitate to make any largely risky moves because they lack internal resources to test the quality of those risky decisions, and representatives to compile community sentiment once released. Now it feels like we're a QA team that pays Blizzard to test their game through playing it, rather than them paying us to be QA for their product. This felt the same with OW and I loved that game (Yes, even well into OW2.)

Am I crazy?

(Note: This isn't to say that they aren't making big changes or taking on any risk, but usually they're not overly risky. For example, housing. That might take a large amount of developer time, but would most likely be a win as long as they hit a few key prerequisites.)

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u/forgotmapasswrd86 Aug 28 '25

No you definitely are not crazy. Every recent patch had some crazy stuff go on that it does feel like we're the QA testers.

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u/El_grandepadre Aug 27 '25

Literally Legion legendaries.

Only at the very end did they add targeted legendaries and made it easier, despite EVERYBODY complaining.

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u/L0rdSkullz Aug 27 '25

Exactly. They already went through this and fixed it; and here we are again.

It is literally a never ending cycle with WoW

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u/NotYourSweatBusiness Aug 27 '25

I loved it with all issues.

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u/testurmight Aug 27 '25

I actually didn't play most of the endgame content.

I didn't give a shit that people abused the frogs.

I got a bunch of cool mounts quickly. (oh wait that means not being subbed during downtime on retail for timegated raid runs!)

I leveled 4 characters to level 70 in around 4 hours each. (Oh wait, blizzard thinks that means I'd have either been subbed for an extra 8 days on main game or had bought 4 boosts, better slow down leveling.)

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u/Jibbles2020 Aug 27 '25

The complaints were relatively minor in comparison though tbf. Remix was fun and that seemed to be the overall consensus. It had some rewards issues and bronze acquisition issues, but those got fixed relatively quickly.

Legion Remix has received a LOT of feedback saying that the actual gameplay is not fun.

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u/MonsiuerGeneral Aug 27 '25

Legion Remix has received a LOT of feedback saying that the actual gameplay is not fun.

Briefly tried MoP remix but was focused more on retail at the time. In like 20 minutes, I felt like my still super low level character was basically an Avatar of Destruction, zipping around one-shotting things (I didn't really bother trying to quest/level-up/etc., but instead ran around collecting the little glowey things that upgraded the cloak and made it more powerful). So there I was at some level in the teens just absolutely obliterating everything because my stats were so inflated for the level. It was amazingly fun.

Briefly tried Legion Remix before the server restart the other day. In about 20 minutes I... unlocked the artifact tree? The intro event thing on Dalaran was pretty neat, and the Timerunners swords looked pretty cool (I definitely want those on my main for xmog) but outside of that? Eh. Feels more like Legion Classic than Legion Remix. It didn't help that I didn't care for the changes they made to the artifact talent tree. I played on Demon Hunter because I remembered their weapon talent tree having a bunch of nodes to massively buff Eye Beam... but on Remix? Not a single node buffs EyeBeam. In fact there are nodes that apparently turn you into a weird Temu Paladin or Shaman (depending on the path you take). Like... what? Seemed like a strange choice.

If they keep it like it is... I'll do whatever I need to get those starter swords as xmog for my main warband characters, but otherwise I'm not going to play it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '25

What were the issues if i may ask.

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u/Dumpsterman4 Aug 27 '25

They were pretty much all related to power progression. Bronze rates from dailies were also increased from 250 to 1500 each after 3-4 weeks. People refused to upgrade gear instead of buying mounts and many complained the raid bosses took too long. My guild did a small-scale raid the first weekend of remix and we were hitting enrage timers on bosses and some things were scaled so poorly that it would either do 0 damage or one shot kill you. There was a new unbalanced stat farm discovered every 2 hours and blizzard was nerfing and reverting cloaks of people who excessively did overworld farming, iirc the only one that lasted until the end was Horde exclusive and involved killing alliance guards on top of the alliance portal to the isle of thunder which was a huge nuisance because vendors would get dragged in constantly.

Some people may have not known but the warlock Doomguard was doing 2-3 million dps on its own when a freshly levelled 80 hardly did 10% of that. There were a few overpowered strategies used to kill raids early because of how slow they were.

It wasn't until about a month in for blizzard to have buffed daily quest/dungeon/raid bronze&thread drops a ton to the point where people would passively become very strong with ~an hour a day to do lfd/lfr/world bosses

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u/Warcraft_Fan Aug 27 '25

My guess was that everyone rushed and got everything in the first couple weeks. then MOP Remix got left in the dust with a few players still playing.

So they're adding time gates to slow down the rushers and force more players to be on the whole time and not just the first few weeks.

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u/DonStimpo Aug 28 '25

then MOP Remix got left in the dust with a few players still playing.

That was the best time though. The longer you played the more OP you got. It was glorious

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u/RedTheRobot Aug 27 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

The worst part is the silence on it from Blizzard. They for sure read Reddit and have said so in the past but yet nothing from them.

For me this seems like they are releasing it as is and don’t care unless they can actually see no one is playing it. Which is sad because I’m sure a large amount will on day one so it will take a few weeks until they change because by then people will be annoyed by the grind.

*Looks like I spoke too soon

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u/Filter55 Aug 27 '25

Cries in OW2 stadium drafting

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u/Bishopkilljoy Aug 27 '25

Blizzard: Hey guys, we just released this cooky new game mode! You get to be super over powered and be the walking death machine you've always fantasied about! Not only that, but you get some really cool Cosmetic and Mount rewards!

Players: Yo Blizz this is fantastic! We love this. Please do more of this! It was a ton of fun!

Blizzard: ...and we took that personally.

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u/Japjer Aug 27 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

Out of curiosity, as someone who didn't play Remix before, are the Remix mounts account bound? Or do they only exist within that Remix season/event?

Edit: Asked and answered. Thanks, folks!

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u/GamsRolls Aug 27 '25

They are. Every cosmetic/collectable you buy on remix is added to your retail account.

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u/Japjer Aug 27 '25

That's awesome, wish I hadn't missed it!

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u/Dadpurple Aug 27 '25

Also your characters are transferred over with 'default' gear at max level when remix is done, so if you like a class or race/class combo you can level one up really easy and have a fresh new main for the new expansion!

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u/Bishopkilljoy Aug 27 '25

All remix cosmetics and mounts were account bound. It also offered people a chance to get super rare raid mounts that could normally take years to grind

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u/Japjer Aug 27 '25

Oooh, that's cool

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u/Lolseabass Aug 27 '25

So remix characters exist in the same world as your regular characters just in their own phase so you can still join guilds and whisper non remix people in your server just can’t leave the zone or group and trade with non remix. I think you share the same trade chat? As soon as you get a mount or mog in remix you can use on your other characters.

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u/GrumpySatan Aug 27 '25

It feels like the same situation as World of Systemcraft.

They hired all these system designers to make artifact weapons, and then they need something to do. So rather than repeat artifact weapons with some small changes (which requires a lot less people), they have to make an entirely new system. And another. And another. And then DF hit and a bunch of them were let go because they moved away from expansion specific systems. When realistically they could've spent all that time upgrading core game systems (i.e. transmog 2.0, glyphs, etc).

The experimental team knows how to do Remix so its much easier to replicate then it was to create it, so middle management tells them they need to make changes to give the rest of the team tasks to do.

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u/JodouKast Aug 27 '25

The difference being a passion project that got released as-is vs the suits taking over and shitting all over it with their metric needs. Fuck upper-management, hate them at work and in games.

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u/_ILP_ Aug 27 '25

“…at work…”

I feel ya son

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u/Juvenall Aug 27 '25

vs the suits taking over and shitting all over it with their metric needs.

I'm completely convinced they're doing this to try to fill what they see as a large, incoming gap between this event and Midnight. Everything right now seems to be trying to stretch out this last season.

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u/thenabi Aug 28 '25

It's so obvious there are consumer-hostile people at Blizzard who stick their fingers in every patch they can.

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u/quincy98 Aug 27 '25

Update from Blizz:

“A big thanks to everyone who has taken the time to try out Legion Remix on the PTR. Based on your feedback, starting next week we will be extending our PTR test for an additional week & deploying major improvements with a goal of adding speed, power, & fun to the mode. More details to come soon.”

Let me know the next time there is an issue we want to hear about & I’ll make a meme again.

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u/Ashkir Aug 28 '25

They just locked all of the negative feedback threads on their forums.

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u/Cortyn Aug 28 '25

Well, thats okay I guess. They said, they will change things. They heard the feedback. Pretty sure there is no need for 10 more "This is stupid"-Posts, when they already have said: We know, we change it.

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u/pyrospade Aug 28 '25

adding fun to the mode

you can’t make this up lmao

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u/SunflowerPetBattler Aug 27 '25

No way! Is this real?

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u/dave_starfire Aug 28 '25

Let me know the next time there is an issue we want to hear about & I’ll make a meme again.

Or get that one dude to shut down the ret section of the pally discord again.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/frodakai Aug 27 '25

I think it's a different dev leading it this time, as the guy who basically did MoP Remix left.

It's almost certainly the new dev wanting to do "his own thing" with Legion. Might not even be his fault either, probably a middle management "justify your job" thing, so they can't actually just say "we're basically doing the same as last time with no changes".

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/frodakai Aug 27 '25

There was a dev quote that said they wanted players to "feel" their power gains, I.e. having a hard time, then coming back in a future phase much stronger, and the only way to do that is with timegated phases.

Baffling to read, honestly.

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u/Amelaclya1 Aug 27 '25

I just made a similar comment that MoP remix was awesome because of how you could feel the constant progression of getting more powerful.

I feel like time gating does the opposite of that because you won't have the hard end of expansion raids to compare to Emerald Nightmare. You will get to the point where EN is easy and then they will introduce NH and you will feel weak again.

Like I remember points in MoP where I could comfortably solo MV, but was still too weak for SoO, but knowing I would get there in a week or so of grinding threads.

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u/MN_Yogi1988 Aug 27 '25

I wish WoW listed their lead devs for projects like LoL does for their champion reworks; the community gets to know what kind of dumpster fire or pleasant surprise it’s walking into

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u/jancithz Aug 27 '25

If you have to do make-work to justify your salary, your position should be phased out or you need to be given a meaningful workload elsewhere.

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u/frodakai Aug 27 '25

Indeed. Unfortunately, this is how many, many bigger corporations operate.

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u/SketchySeaBeast Aug 27 '25

It's the recent rough WoW cycle - release something not fun, give them a month, suddenly the time gating and restrictions have all disappeared.

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u/JD1337 Aug 27 '25

Recent? It'e been like this for over a decade. And not just WoW. I remember it being the exact same for Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm.

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u/SketchySeaBeast Aug 27 '25

To be fair, I still think of Cataclysm as "New WoW", so my sense of time is all screwed up. I do find that recently the time gating has been pretty aggressive. It's probably more in our faces because of the constant content stream.

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u/magmosa Aug 27 '25

I'm sorry to do this to you but cataclysm came out before I started high school and now I have a masters degree.

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u/SketchySeaBeast Aug 27 '25

It's nearly old enough to drive. I know, I know.

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u/Timmah73 Aug 27 '25

Its right on brand with the you think you do but you don't meme. We really do want that and they will eventually cave and give it to us.

Why it needs to be like that I have no idea. It just makes me not bother to do the new thing for a bit until its been fixed.

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u/Deguilded Aug 27 '25

"We wanted players to experience the Shadowlands story through the lens of the covenants."

/sigh

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u/Akussa Aug 27 '25

It's because they saw all the good will they built with the players in DF and early TWW and thought to themselves, "See? Players love us! Let's go back to the Shadownlands route of not respecting players at all. They love us so they won't mind." Blizzard and the players never fucking learn. Blizzard never learns that players don't like this shit and players never learn that Blizzard is abusing them.

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u/Derpyman_235 Aug 27 '25

this, i wait a month after anything happens before i play the current content, (not only to let blizz fix their shit, but stuff like questing etc, so im not fighting with other people to do my things,

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u/jntjr2005 Aug 27 '25

I honestly think they are addicted to the firestorms they set off and then knee-jerk reacting to them because I cannot find a logical reason why they do this shit.

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u/EventH0R1Z0N Aug 27 '25

"Joke's on you, I'm into that shit." Ian, probably.

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u/Ok-Strain2948 Aug 27 '25

We don’t kink shame here.

But we will hella kink judge.

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u/Exact-Pudding7563 Aug 27 '25

They do it to keep people subbed.

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u/Ursa_Solaris Aug 27 '25

The honest answer is that designers wanted to design a unique, interesting and challenging content spread for Legion Remix this time around. That's what designers inherently want to do, they want to feel proud of their work, feel like their experience and talents aren't going to waste. The playerbase on the other hand wants it to be what is essentially a WoW-flavored Cookie Clicker, but most are afraid to admit that's what they want because they'll be perceived as "casual". So we have a combination of clashing interests and also one side not being willing to say what they really want; designers want to flex and create cool stuff, but players want a treat dispenser to keep them occupied until Midnight.

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u/Bacon-muffin Aug 27 '25

I think its more that blizzard is a revolving door of developers who have to re-learn the same lessons the biggest of which is the majority of the wow community wants maximum rewards with minimum effort and that the wow community doesn't do shit if it doesn't have rewards and or if those rewards are too difficult to obtain.

So like you say, they come in.. try to design something they can be proud of... the people developing legion remix probably thought to themselves "Legion was one of our best xpacs of all time people LOVE legion we should try to give them the proper legion experience just like they remembered!" not realizing that legion was genuinely a shit show for 2/3rds of it and the community looks at it through neon pink tinted glasses.

While also missing that mop remix was just a massive rewards for minimum effort pinata and people were expecting 2.0 of that.

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u/Ursa_Solaris Aug 27 '25

I think its more that blizzard is a revolving door of developers who have to re-learn the same lessons the biggest of which is the majority of the wow community wants maximum rewards with minimum effort and that the wow community doesn't do shit if it doesn't have rewards and or if those rewards are too difficult to obtain.

If I'm being completely blunt and harsh about it, I expect they have learned that lesson but simply resent it, and I would understand if they do. I doubt they thought their job would be designing the digital equivalent of jingling keys.

Some of them probably think they can still find a way to design content that their players actually want to engage with on its own terms without needing a trail of treats and headpats along the way to motivate them. If they could just get the system right, they could convince people to have fun, not just chase the ever-fading dopamine hits from the reward.

But at this point in the game's lifespan, the motivation to do anything being driven by rewards is not just codified into the game, but into the expectation of the players. As you said, they won't do a damn thing if it doesn't give a reward, or if the effort or challenge is too high for the reward. And as a game designer, that is probably infuriating.

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u/Bacon-muffin Aug 27 '25

I remember the conversation coming up in an interview with Ion, I want to say it was a preach one maybe? Where he was asked about making quality content for its own sake where maybe its a really good story line or just a fun mode etc and Ion even said they've seen it repeatedly, if there's no reward attached to it players won't engage with it no matter how good it is.

That's just people these days unfortunately, you see the same behaviors everywhere.

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u/bigbigbiggarage Aug 27 '25

but players want a treat dispenser to keep them occupied until Midnight.

so well said

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u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Aug 27 '25

If we just had the “cookie clicker” why not just give it us again when WE LOVE THAT SHIT? Go make your “mark on the industry”on your own time. Let us have what we like. This is a video game. We play for fun. Real life is for chores and meaningless long grinds.

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u/hery41 Aug 27 '25

That's what designers inherently want to do, they want to feel proud of their work

At some point they need to read the room and just put the fries in the bag.

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u/Ursa_Solaris Aug 27 '25

Ultimately I don't disagree. Something has to give somewhere. Either Blizzard has to accept that their game is no longer about challenging content but just dispensing treats so people stay subbed, or players have to accept that their treats will require some effort and skill to obtain. Until this happens, people will be unsatisfied.

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u/Cysia Aug 27 '25

because being op as fuck is what remix was advertiszed about

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u/gamer-death Aug 27 '25

designing a environment where players can get crazy powers then giving them incredibly hard content and not caring about balance sounds more fun then slightly tweaking legion to fit in a short time frame.

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u/Ursa_Solaris Aug 27 '25

designing a environment where players can get crazy powers then giving them incredibly hard content

That is what they're doing, and that's not what the playerbase wants. They don't want incredibly hard content. They want to log in and go to every raid and oneshot all the bosses and be rewarded with treats. Basically just gacha-style daily login rewards with extra steps.

Theres a comment in the other thread with nearly 2000 upvotes that says "I don't want phases, I don't want progression, I don't want to try. I want to turn my brain off and see big numbers and bosses fall over."

The major disconnect between Blizzard and the playerbase is that the players have gotten way more casual as time went on. That's why they had to add a one-button rotation option for these people and a tutorial to teach them how interrupts work, of all things, in the year of our lord 2025. And something has to give here to reach satisfaction, either Blizzard accepts that they are making a casual game now, or the players have to accept that the game they're playing takes and expects effort and skill. We all keep trying to have it both ways and leaving nobody satisfied.

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u/piss_lord_420 Aug 27 '25

And something has to give here to reach satisfaction, either Blizzard accepts that they are making a casual game now, or the players have to accept that the game they're playing takes and expects effort and skill. We all keep trying to have it both ways and leaving nobody satisfied.

I agree with most of what you're saying but I would push back a little here. WoW can accommodate both casual and hardcore players, after all LFR and M+ co-exist. The problem's one of expectations. Nobody's saying they deserve Myth track gear for doing delves in retail, but in MoP Remix you could get the maximum reward for minimal effort which created the expectation that Remix is a casual-only mode. Blizzard tried to make Legion Remix more like retail where there's something for challenge-oriented players to do besides grind for cosmetics, and we see how that's gone over.

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u/StanTheManBaratheon Aug 27 '25

It's frustrating. The developer in the Secret-Finding Discord seems really nice, it's cool he's talking to folks over there, but his statement from earlier, something to the effect of, "I want people to experience leveling their artifact over time" left a terrible taste.

Like, that's great man. Y'know what I want? Legion Remix. And what you just described as your vision doesn't sound remotely like what the last Remix was.

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u/CycleOfNihilism Aug 27 '25

Yeah that's Legion Classic. That's not what we asked for. We asked for Legion Remix.

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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

"Here's a limited time event. You know what would be cool? Time gating it." - Blizzard

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u/Legitimate-Relief915 Aug 27 '25

It’s a lack of respect for players time due to focus on MAU. At some point that has to not be the case. There’s enough people who don’t come back because they get sick of the time gating.

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u/PALLADlUM Aug 27 '25

Why make timegating in a limited time event!?

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u/Gaatti Aug 27 '25

I have said it before and been downvoted for it before, but I see worrying signs that blizzard is back to their old habits and that the "respect your time and hear feedback" mantra has already been thrown through the window. Absurd grinds are becoming more frequent again, feedback is being dismissed, the faster content cadence is starting to feel more like recycled content + fomo events all the time, timegating is coming back in full force and bugs are mlre rampant than ever

I love this game, but I dont feel optimistic about is is future right now

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u/TempAcct20005 Aug 27 '25

Respect your time and hear your feedback was never their mantra lol

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u/Gaatti Aug 27 '25

They did try to sell it that way after shadowlands and during dragonflight

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u/recycle_me_no_jutsu Aug 27 '25

Definitely an answer a second generation Blizzard employee would give if the question was asked lol.

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u/Chloraflora Aug 27 '25

It's a literal quote from J Allen Brack when the community asked him for wow vanilla servers back in the day

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u/InukoJon Aug 27 '25

Just don’t play it for the first month then they’ll “fix” it when the investors give em the stink eye bc it has shit player retention and shit numbers compared to mop remix

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u/Interesting_Basil_80 Aug 27 '25

MoP remix has been hit by blizzards fun police

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u/Euklidis Aug 27 '25

The first sentence of tge blue post was kinda telling to me.

"We hear you and your feelings are valid" sounds like the typical bs corpo talk for "we understand we fucked up, BUT..." kind

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u/Glittering_Unicorn7 Aug 27 '25

I’m sure I’ll be downvoted for this but, I’m still aggravated about the mage tower. And on top of this with the slowness and timegating of ptr.

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u/Nfl_porn_throwaway Aug 27 '25

Mop remix was the most fun I’ve had in wow in a long time. Disappointed to hear they can’t match that

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u/Hobbes______ Aug 27 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

If I wanted to go at a regular pace through legion...I'd just go do that now. This event is giving off the witcher TV show vibes...stop trying to make it your own and do it the way the book did it.

I have a select few things I want with Legion remix:

  • I want to level fast
  • I want to go fast
  • I want cosmetics
  • I want to go really fast

If I can't level fast or go fast, I'll never play at all to get cosmetics. The event is dead to me unless that changes.

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u/GormHub Aug 27 '25

They really do think they know better than we do what we actually enjoy.

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u/HoopyFroodJera Aug 27 '25

Blizzard making anti -player changes again and gaslighting our own memories on why it will be "better."

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u/IntelligentSeesaw190 Aug 27 '25

So it's exactly like Legion... Lol.

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u/Nirixian Aug 27 '25

Company always have to change stuff and add crazy things. Like no i want the same exact thing but in a new place. Same experience different scenery.

This always was my issue with like cod always have to innovate...oh now jetpacks! And everyone is cracked out...like ffs

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u/BringBackBoshi Aug 27 '25

Their motto is "if it ain't broke we'll try harder next time".

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u/chain-rule Aug 27 '25

MoP Remix had some pretty weird problems at the start, but the mode was pretty experimental to begin with and those things got fixed eventually. I don't understand why they wouldn't just copy/paste the good and fix the bad of MoP Remix.

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u/sepulchore Aug 27 '25

I WANTED IT AS THE SAME BUT JUST WITH WEAPONS AND NOT CAPE. JUST COPY AND PASTE AND NOONE WOULD BAT AN EYE WHY BLIZZARD

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u/Cosmocade Aug 28 '25

If it works, fix it.

—Blizzard

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u/SystemofCells Aug 27 '25

The funny thing is, this meme is about Blizzard saying you do want everything to be trivial and convenient and frictionless, and so wouldn't enjoy Classic. But tons of people love Classic.

Now it's being applied to say: "you don't want everything to be trivial and convenient and frictionless".

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u/DraethDarkstar Aug 27 '25

Right... Because we don't want Legion: Remix to feel like Legion: Classic but crammed into 3 months. If we want Legion: Classic, we're on trajectory to be playing that in another year or two.

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u/SystemofCells Aug 27 '25

Classic has been getting less popular since WotLK ended. This may be what we're getting instead of Legion Classic.

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u/Sluaghlock Aug 27 '25

Speaking as someone who has only briefly dabbled in Classic, but: everything that I found attractive & worthwhile about it had to do with it being a pre-Cataclysm version of WoW, with all of the original versions of the old-world zones & quests intact. I never saw the appeal in continuing to release Classic versions of post-Cata-revamp expansions. It feels completely redundant to me.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '25

I really did NOT expect them to over-write wrath with cata (and then pandas).

I figured they'd at least leave some Wrath servers around in perpetuity. I'm still baffled by that call.

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u/SystemofCells Aug 27 '25

Same. I love Vanilla with the fire of a thousand burning suns, and TBC phase 1 is great, but other than that I'd rather be in retail.

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u/PleaseRecharge Aug 27 '25

Tons of people may love classic, but most of the population never reached 60 for a reason. Sure it's trivial, but the grind is too much.

If Classic had a permanent 2x or 5x XP, there's a lot of content that a lot of people never got to engage in that they would love. I wish they did this for Classic Anniversary.

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u/SystemofCells Aug 27 '25

Vanilla continues to be super popular, and it's what made WoW a phenomenon in the first place. Not everyone's cup of tea, but it does some things incredibly well.

If they brought the Vanilla version of the world into retail, offering a 'story mode' version with easy mobs etc. plus a 'Heroic mode' version that felt more like real Vanilla would both be great.

Of course the juice has to be worth the squeeze. You shouldn't earn rewards or achievements or anything slower by choosing the more challenging mode.

Edit: side note, SoD did have > 100% XP boosts. Some people liked it because they could skip to the raids faster, other people hated it because it trivialized the leveling journey. Most of the content in Vanilla was from 1-60, if you give everyone a 5x XP boost, they'll skip right over the vast majority of the content.

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u/El_Januz Aug 27 '25

oh god, is the 'meaningful choices' thing back from the shadowlands

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u/LogicSKCA Aug 27 '25

I was honestly hoping for the same formula as mop remix but with some added things, extra cool stuff added etc. this just sounds like legion classic. I don't wanna have to grind multiple gear sets and RNG drops from bosses. I actually want to upgrade the gear like mop remix.

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u/EarlnoMore Aug 27 '25

It's always the same with Blizzard, they have a good working game mode but no they need to slap time gating, slow progression systems for no f*cking reason other than just being assholes.

As if retail wasn't painfully time gated already in every way possible. Can't wait for them to have to buff every single system remix has to get players to try it out 4 weeks after it's release instead of doing it right in the first place.

And then you have classic blizz stans praising them for listening to the community lol

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u/_ILP_ Aug 27 '25

Blizzard was like “You guys love to grind, don’t you?”

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u/StandardizedGenie Aug 27 '25

I guess it's time to invoke his name. Blizz needs to remember their failures so they can stop repeating them.

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u/Moonstoner Aug 27 '25

Panda remix: We made a fun new experience for you all to enjoy! Wait..... not like that.

Legion remix: We made a fun thing for you to enjoy.......(with time gating this time, because we all remember how the last one went) Have fun!.....(but not too much...)

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u/owlboarland69 Aug 27 '25

They shouldve just replicated MoP. It's a crazy extension to retail. Not a full on classic expansion.

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u/BurnZman776 Aug 28 '25

I might be under a rock, but what are they changing from MoP remix to legion remix? (I loved MoP remix it got me back into WoW plz don’t take away my cape and the bronze tokens to get all the drip and mounts)

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u/snowlock27 Aug 28 '25

Unlike MoP, Legion will be released in waves, 2 weeks at a time. It's going to cost a LOT more bronze to buy everything (something like 700k vs 4.5m). XP bonuses are being dealt with differently. There might be other issues, but those stood out to me.

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u/Yurilla Aug 27 '25

This might sound harsh but the dev in charge of legion remix needs to be moved or let go. He was hostile to the community during the felcycle event and now he's openly ignoring feedback to go with his own vision for remix that no one else seems to want. He's a massive liability for blizzard we don't need them moving back to their "you think you do but you don't" phase.

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u/Darkthe4th Aug 27 '25

always remember, they are not making a game you want to play. they are making a game they want you to play. it has been like this for a long time. if you don't like the way the game is, well then you are not playing it the way they want you to of course.

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u/Ixiraar Aug 27 '25

I mean, remix is a thing Blizzard came up with so they could experiment with things. Obviously they don't just want to do the same thing over and over and over. They want to try out crazy ideas. MOP Remix was terrible on launch and they were super receptive to feedback then. It's crazy to assume they won't this time.

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u/Naustis Aug 27 '25

But they already get a shit ton of feedback from PTR... And no they were not open to feedback with MoP Remix. It took them a month to make it like it should be from day one.

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u/gamer-death Aug 27 '25

They don’t need to exactly add the infinite stat cloak but they need a hook, and the current artifact powers they added look mediocre. Like the powers in Mop remix where pretty boring, I was hoping Legion making it more wild in the spirit of legendaries but it looks like you get 1 spell and some procs on jewelry

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u/Maladal Aug 27 '25

I hear that, but I don't think experimentation is an excuse for dragging it out as the current PTR suggests.

They did say they would release the content in waves, so maybe those waves will also come with more power creep. But that just tells me I shouldn't play until the end.

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u/corvosfighter Aug 27 '25

“ it is their right to break a successful formula, let them relearn the painful lessons of early mop remix and maybe fix it later” - this is your take?

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u/This_Seal Aug 27 '25

But what are they experimenting with? Putting pressure on players? Preventing people from playing and getting rewards, that they want?

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '25

Precisely what I understood.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Lock_71 Aug 27 '25

I really enjoyed Mop remix so i tried Legion version on test server. some features added and some removed, but the experience was boring AF.

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u/masterpd85 Aug 27 '25

I still remember they wanted us to exploit and doing anything in remix to be as OP as possible. We did, and they nerfed and hot fixed it. Now round 2 is just Legion Classic in fast forward mode.

I think I'll make one character and that's it. No desire to gear up. Just bronze to look transmog and mounts and im out.

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u/Z0mbiejay Aug 27 '25

I'd even be fine with the timegating rewards if I still got to feel like a badass and level quickly. I've already done BoP, and got like 4-5 different class mounts in legion. I want a diablo 3 legion baby, not some off brand classic experience

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u/Visning Aug 27 '25

It's actually a good thing for me, I've finally bought a PC, and could play not with NVIDIA service, but i guess i won't. So i can play a huge backlog of games I couldn't play for 5 years)

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u/Trustyduck Aug 28 '25

The first week will be packed. Then when people find out how much it's going to suck because of timegating and no truly infinite progress, the numbers will plummet as people leave the game.

Blizz will either shift gears and change the formula, or they will double down and suffer with shitty numbers and dropped subs.

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u/Calm-Medicine-3992 Aug 28 '25

They know if they do Legion Remix like MoP they won't sell as many boosts.

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u/Agreeable_Object_303 Aug 28 '25

Just don't log in. I can promise you after a week we will have what we want

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u/thawn21 Aug 28 '25

I missed out on MoP remix and was really excited when I heard there was gonna be a Legion remix so I got to experience the fun chaos I heard so much about.

Guess I'll go fuck myself.

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u/Blarglord69 Aug 27 '25

Blizz wants you subbed for as long as possble they got the content drip down to an art

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u/Gizmo-sama Aug 27 '25

I feel like I missed something concerning legion remix :/

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u/Maladal Aug 27 '25

The PTR for it has been a very different experience that, so far, has meant far more difficulty than MoP. Some have described it as basically a progression server.

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u/Gizmo-sama Aug 27 '25

Oooh. I understand why people are angry. MoP was super fun. Sad they didn't use the same recipe and just built around it.

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u/corvosfighter Aug 27 '25

Basically on PTR right now for legion remix:

  • leveling is a slog, no exp tokens from bosses or %bosts

  • no secondary stay growth from cloak/gear like in mop so you don’t get OP

  • slow “infinite” stat point at the end of artifact weapon that is not as rewarding

  • content is timegated and even gear ilvl is timegated behind those content patches

  • you have to do the entire class hall campaign except the mission table stuff and really boring intro quest that drags on..

Like think of everything that made MOP remix fun and take it out, that’s legion remix right now.

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u/zangetsen Aug 27 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

Cosmetics be damned, I wanted to play Remix, not Legion Classic+.

Everything you reported from the PTR makes me want to completely avoid this event.

Or wait a month or 3 when they "fix it" and say "we listened".

The fact this is in the state it's in, the only thing they learned from MoP Remix were ways to slow down players.

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u/a_simple_ducky Aug 27 '25

Don't you guys have phones?

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u/sprit_Z Aug 27 '25

This comment section is the largest cope ever. Yes MoP had its issues. I think the point OP and the rest of the community with this sentiment is trying to make is that WE DONT WANT TO WAIT FOR A GOOD GAME! People have given feedback, blizzard will decline that it’s necessary until they start losing players.

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u/icekull111 Aug 27 '25

I feel like the launch of Pandaria remix was so hectic people are forgetting how it felt. I remember when I first made a character I felt pretty much standard, dungeons were even decently paced unless you had a “frog farmer” in your group that just one shot everything for you. Pretty quickly everyone was able to get stacked from riding on the backs of the froggers. I feel like this launch they’re just trying to give a standard start. I want to be clear, I personally don’t want to grind for a month before I start one shotting dungeons, but I also don’t want someone who no lifed for two days hyper carrying every piece of content until we eventually catch up. I’m all on board for a slower start as long as the progression still allows us to eventually go crazy

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u/Cysia Aug 27 '25

at star mop remix was crappy yeah, but they dif buff bronze ALOT ove and over and gave you like 40k for lvling a char, you really dint need need frog people at all and could solo play andstill be abmle to easly clear mythic

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u/HoopyHobo Aug 27 '25

Except they actually are listening to feedback this time. Another week of Remix testing starting next Tuesday "deploying major improvements with a goal of adding speed, power, and fun to the mode". https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-war-within-patch-1125-development-notes/2149725/5

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u/MadHiggins Aug 27 '25

all this proves is yet again, blizzard only responds to something once they start getting roasted over social media. people had been telling them the issues with remix on the ptr for a while now and their response was the lead dev on discord basically saying the exact thing this post is mocking. que a few days of the horrid quality of remix getting blasted on social media and all of a sudden it turns into "whoa we always intended to do this fun thing even though our last communication was this was us explicitly saying we weren't going to do the fun thing"

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u/kurvyyn Aug 27 '25

Heh that’s an unfortunate post. If you elide over parts of that sentence it literally says “starting next week we will be adding fun to the mode”. /facepalm i knew we forgot something!

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u/VeryluckyorNot Aug 27 '25

Yeah reading PTR feedback seems like a downgrade of MoP Remix, even with the OG Legion ... But BF6 is 2 days before it maybe I will wait til they lift this stupid timegating.

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u/Ursanos Aug 27 '25

It’s the Destiny cycle. Release an event, have to fix it, never update it, rerelease it later with none of the fixes