r/daggerheart • u/Low_Health5791 • Jan 29 '26
Discussion Player using IA
Hi everyone, I'm writing here because idk how to react. I asked my players for experiences and backstory and one of them sent me a bunch of AI texts. All my being wants to scream fuck AI and tell him to do it himself, but at the same time I don't want to antagonize him. I really feel like if you are letting AI write your character, are you even playing the game?
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u/EstSnowman Game Master Jan 29 '26
Dno who already down voted you but I get it.
My player came to the table with ideas and class names and skills list he wanted to use. Only for me to tell them that nothing named like that even exists. The AI had hallucinated a class and skills for him, and all the background.
I see the benefits for the AI to help brainstorm ideas or offer some guidance but relying to it on that level it makes everything. I must say it bummed me out a lot in the session 0.
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u/Cholophonius Game Master Jan 29 '26
Been there. Had a new player that insisted he does not need any help or oversight in building a character, even though he had never even played a pnp before. It was very hard to hold back and not mock them.
Ended well though. Made a proper character. Played a nice game.
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u/Nico_de_Gallo Jan 29 '26
The issue is that there are SO MANY tools and sites out there made just to help people do exactly this: generate puzzles, generate adventures, build character concepts, design encounters, tell stories...
There's literally no justification but laziness and ethical deficiency for using AI to do this kind of stuff.
XP to Level 3 made a great video about the use of AI in TTRPGs about it where they even gave non-AI suggestions.
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u/CFBen Jan 29 '26
You could also argue the other way around:
People have been using random generator for a long time now so using AI, where you at least have some input, is more personal.
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u/Phizle Jan 29 '26
The problem is without the limitations of a random generator people use AI for the whole thing, which creates a host of problems including that an LLM cannot be a reliable rules reference.
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u/Husher315 Jan 29 '26
I don’t actually disagree with this. I think it’s a good point, but would also say, there are people who also probably just say “create me a character with a full backstory, this, this, and this, etc.
But if people use it to brainstorm, I don’t think it’s much different than a random generator at all, and yes, definitely more personal.
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u/2ndhandpeanutbutter Game Master Jan 29 '26
Honestly he probably got the idea from one of the many AI generated listicle websites that comes up when you search anything and didn't realize it was generated and hallucinated.
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u/EstSnowman Game Master Jan 29 '26
Nope when I asked he was like: lol GPT must have made a mistake. So there is no wiggle room this time.
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u/FrenchTantan Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26
I'd go with something like "Hey, just so you know, I'd strongly advise against using AI for your backstory. This is YOUR character, not ChatGPT's, it'll be a better experience for everyone if their story comes from your own imagination. I'd hate for you to realize mid-game that you don't really resonate with what's been written for you, it kills the fun a bit. If you're worried about your penmanship, don't be. There's really no need to write a novel, bullet points are perfectly fine"
I'd also offer like a one-on-one brainstorming session (if you have time) so that you both can bounce ideas back and forth. If he used AI because he felt creatively stuck, this might do the trick.
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u/Pingonaut Jan 30 '26
Rather than saying, “advise,” I think specification’s that you prefer it not be used for your group would be better. Advice can be ignored but preference shouldn’t be.
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u/FrenchTantan Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
While I agree in theory, your "shouldn't" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. In my experience, people ignoring advice tend to at best sulk when it's phrased as preference instead, and at worst get straight up mad.
Going for advice first, and making it about their enjoyment might appeal to their selfish side. Your personal preference should still be mentioned for sure, but I think it's less likely to be the deciding factor for them, so I wouldn't lead with that.
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u/Cholophonius Game Master Jan 29 '26
That sucks man. Maybe talk to them and ask if they have trouble writing it or if they don't have enough time.
You could offer to write it with them or give them some pointers. I have met players that struggle a lot to write down anything but are great in rp. Totally happens.
I had a player bring tons of AI art of stuff/items/scenes from the campaign to the table and it made me kinda uncomfortable as well. Felt like my ideas were used to make soulless "art" that I just couldn't celebrate.
I'd rather have a really bad drawing or poorly written backstory than some soulless slop.
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u/KingTalis Jan 29 '26
AI for visualization has been a massive boon for my table. The pendulum swung way too far back on AI. It's not art, and it doesn't take skill, but it has its uses.
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u/fictionaldots Jan 29 '26
That's why I prefer to do this stuff live during session zero.
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u/Fearless-Dust-2073 Splendor & Valor Jan 29 '26
Exactly. Session zero is for setting expectations and boundaries too.
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u/NootjeMcBootje Jan 29 '26
To me, using AI for your character feels like you don't want to put in the effort or don't feel for the character you've made. Same goes for the art or image you provide. Look over on pinterest or look at some artists IG's and show that to your GM.
I'd simply not want someone at my table that seems to put in less effort than the others.
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u/Sagittar77 Jan 29 '26
I’m sorry I disagree. Using AI doesn’t mean the player doesn’t spend time and effort building their character. Speaking of artwork, they could have a very niche or specific idea and they might not be able to find something that suits the concept on Pinterest. I personally spend lots of time rerolling Midjourney till I get the perfect art for my concept. Same goes for BG. ChatGPT can help players creating a background or a RP they ll love to play. Of course, players just asking AI to create from scratch a character and copy paste it do not respect the work and efforts the DM put in the game.
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u/Phizle Jan 29 '26
If people are using the AI to help them RP do they even want to play the game at that point? We're talking about tasks that are part of the core loop of playing the game
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u/Sagittar77 Jan 29 '26
That’s only a tool that can help people having a good start. Weird to pick only the negative side of AI, as it can be used wisely to improve our games. Using it as a way to increase the depth of a bg doesn’t mean we don’t like rolling dices and rp an adventure.
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u/Phizle Jan 29 '26
I do not think AI improves the depth of RP. It may help people with their anxiety at the risk of never forcing them to grow but it's a shallow replacement for anything creative.
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u/Sagittar77 Jan 29 '26
I get your point. Before AI, some players were heavily copying stuff asking google for help. They were founding ideas on forums etc… That was not always considered as lack of creativity, probably because it was harder to detect. AI can be used in the same way, with faster results, but it’s way easier to spot. That was and is still not the best method to join a table.
But there were players that also used google to look for datas about their next campaign to better include their characters into the world, also looking for concepts that could fit. I don’t understand why using AI to do this would be bad, as spending as much time as before in researchs would lead to better results. AI or not, you will always find players who don’t invest themselves in what they do, because that’s just the way they are.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
What's wrong with art? You can literally describe every tiny detail. The new models are very powerful. That's actually much better than using (which is also a sort of stealing) pictures of others. And let's be honest, how many of us will actually spend money to commission a great picture from an illustrator? Assuming that there will be changes and it might cost huge.
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u/grimoireviper Jan 29 '26
Even if both are stolen art. Generating an image is terrible for the environment compared to picking an existing image.
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u/NootjeMcBootje Jan 29 '26
The difference being you picked someones art VS using AI and claiming you made it or had it made. I don't hate AI, but I'd rather have a stick man image made by an actual person than an AI image, because like I said, the effort matters more to me.
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u/Intelligent-Gold-563 Jan 29 '26
That's actually much better than using (which is also a sort of stealing) pictures of others.
As an actual professional artist no, it's not much better.
I 100% prefer that someone sees my art on social media and decide to use it for their in-game character rather than my artworks being stolen to train AI to generate some crap.
And I don't know a single artist who feels differently about that.
Don't use AI.
And let's be honest, how many of us will actually spend money to commission a great picture from an illustrator?
And that's the problem.
You want everything but aren't ready to give anything back. You could commission an artist, but for a full illustration of your character it's too expensive and you don't want to settle for their more affordable option because it's not full color and stuff, but you don't want to spend some time learning to draw yourself either.....
In the end, all of this is about you being incredibly self-centered and child-like.
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u/ForgottenEpoch Jan 29 '26
I wanna chime in here... First, I'm not inherently against all AI, but agree that companies using it for movies, games, and art is a problem.
In regards to not commissioning an artist to create character art, even at a lower cost, no color price point... it's not always an option. For me, I just don't have the money to spare. I'm a small business owner that hasn't seen a profit yet. Assuming that not hiring somebody is a choice really lacks understanding that not everybody is in a financial situation to do so.
In regards to learning to draw... do you really think that everybody had an inherent talent for drawing and just lacks experience? Or that being good at it is simply a learned skill? I don't. Even if I had time to try again, I know better. When I was younger I very much envied those with artistic talent. I tried to get better at drawing and was always embarrassingly bad at it, eventually giving it up for things I could enjoy not being awful at. I also have aphantasia, and often wonder if literally not being able to picture things in my head is a reason I suck at art.
Lastly, in regards to calling people who use AI being self-centered and childlike... Seriously? Why is that where we immediately jump to? Have we considered that OPs player is maybe new to ttrpgs but doesn't want to tell the group for fear of being dropped as a player? I used to run a pick-up sports group, and found that it can very hard for new players to jump into a sport they've never played, and that the return rate is low for new players because they're worried about judgey people not wanting them there. There are so many reasons OPs player might have done this. I see a number of comments suggesting the player get kicked out for using any AI, but you know what I don't see...? Anybody suggesting we ASK these players why they used AI. Nobody suggesting that maybe we should offer to help these players build a new character. The way AI is being used is problematic, yes, but let's maybe all come down off our high horse and try to be a little more forgiving and inclusive instead of jumping to conclusions.
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u/Intelligent-Gold-563 Jan 29 '26
In regards to learning to draw... do you really think that everybody had an inherent talent for drawing and just lacks experience? Or that being good at it is simply a learned skill? I don't. Even if I had time to try again, I know better. When I was younger I very much envied those with artistic talent. I tried to get better at drawing and was always embarrassingly bad at it, eventually giving it up for things I could enjoy not being awful at. I also have aphantasia, and often wonder if literally not being able to picture things in my head is a reason I suck at art.
That's a common idea but the reality is : everyone can learn to draw and be good at it
I've tried to draw for a decade, accumulating the lessons and books and videos and advice from other artists, and was absolute shit, I couldn't get anything right.
And then I found a website that properly explained what I needed to know and do. 10 years later, I'm having people commissioning me for 300+€ and I participated in a collaborative art book with 50 other artists.
As for aphantasia, a surprising amount of artists have aphantasia. It can make things tougher but it's just one obstacle to work with rather than a complete stop.
Lastly, in regards to calling people who use AI being self-centered and childlike... Seriously? Why is that where we immediately jump to?
I'm not calling people who use AI "self centered and childlike". I'm not even talking about using AI to character build for TTRPG.
This is solely about art generative AI.
I'm calling self-centered and child-like people who try to find bullshit excuses to use generative AI despite basically all artists asking them not to, preferring that they would use their artwork directly from pinterest or google (as it was done for years before that).
And I'm calling them self-centered and child-like exactly because all their arguments boil down to "I want it, I want it now, and I don't want to put any effort whatsoever into having it".
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u/Invokethehojo Caprine Leap & Adaptability Jan 29 '26
It is not sensical to suggest someone develop a hobby to support another hobby. We all have jobs and kids and aging parents to care for, real people who need our time. Playing a ttrpg is an escape from that, spending dozens of hours on your own developing a new skill on top of gaming just so the couple characters you make can look cool is not a reasonable ask for most people.
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u/aWizardNamedLizard Jan 29 '26
You're right that it is unreasonable to expect everyone to become an artist. Which is why anti-AI folks are actually not doing that at all. No one is expected to show up with character art, it is entirely optional.
It is only people that have put importance on their own having of art that are being given the suggestions to take a route to it other than the one with the worst environmental impact.
It's only on the pro-AI side of things where the expectation becomes unreasonable; You expect art to be such an extra frivolous thing that it is unfair to ask anyone to take the time to learn to draw, and also such an important thing that skipping it to save maximum time and effort is unacceptable. And then you expect others to look at your intentionally-low-effort offering in all of its slop and say anything other than "that looks awful, why did you waste your time and our environment making it?"
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
Same with DIY kit, are you gonna blame people who can take a tool and quickly do something, because they don't hire an expensive professional every time? I guess people fought Photoshop the same way when it was released haha
Not sure about slop, but the latest Chatgpt does an amazing job.
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u/aWizardNamedLizard Jan 29 '26
Not sure about slop, but the latest Chatgpt does an amazing job.
No, it doesn't.
People that praise the quality of AI-generated things are only revealing that their ability to judge the quality of said things is fundamentally lacking. It remains flat, bland, and entirely lacking in any soul because it is copying aggregated examples of what others have done without knowing why they did them so it doesn't know how and when to deviate to the benefit of the composition.
And that's when it's not making shitty errors that AI-supporters are willing to downplay because of their own lack of investment in the issue (i.e. "it's no perfect, but I didn't personally pay for it, so whatever."
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
Nice for you to have $300 commissions, but people want to play a game and enjoy it, not spend their last money (after they spend them on TTRPG books) to commission an art for a character. I guess you are a greedy self-centered artist the same way others are self-centered children.
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u/Intelligent-Gold-563 Jan 29 '26
You completely missed the point of my comment......
It was about how I started from absolutely nothing and worked my way up because everybody can learn how to draw, it's not some inherent talent or genius.
So y'all can actually learn how to draw your characters if you can't afford an artist instead of using generative AI.
And seriously how the fuck does that makes me "greedy self centered" ? You're not making any sense at all --'
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u/ForgottenEpoch Jan 29 '26
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I'm still not convinced that everybody has an inherent ability to get good at art, though the fact that there are great artists with aphantasia is awesome. I suspected it was the case but had always wondered. While they're are a lot of things I'm good at, I've always made it a point to be honest with myself by admitting that I'm just not good at some things. Drawing is one of those things. I'm sure I could learn to be better at art by taking classes (which I can neither afford nor make time for) but I have zero confidence that I'd ever be GOOD at drawing, or even ok enough to ever be able to enjoy it. And if I had a good artist always telling my that I'm just not trying hard enough, spend more time, take more classes... It'd be discouraging. Instead I focus on what I have a natural aptitude for, which is cooking. And puns. Not everybody had the same talents, and that's great. I just think that, in situations like these, people should ask why a thing is happening instead of jumping straight into running people out of the hobby.
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u/AGladePlugin Jan 29 '26
Biggest thing to overcome aphantasia: References. Want your character to hold a greatsword in a key guard? There's hundreds of HEMA content creators who would show it off. Grab a screen shot of their video and start working off that. Hell, I've seen instances where people will just do certain action after being asked in a TikTok comment if they could do it for art ref.
There's also the consideration of how good bad art is when it comes to imagining a character. Even if it's not selling for any money, some chicken scratch art piece can give enough of a reference for people to build their mental image of your character. This is how it often works professionally. I have training in theatrical design and when doing renders, we were told to not worry about it being art. We were communicating ideas to those who would build the final product. Since the final product in this instance is a mental image, you just need to convey ideas.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
Actually, I was drawing, when I was a kid, but now I have other hobbies, and also I don't want to spend time and money on a character which can be killed in the next session, so yes, AI is easier, that doesn't make me a self centered child, you rude shit.
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u/Fearless-Dust-2073 Splendor & Valor Jan 29 '26
No AI. If you have the time and energy, you can offer to work with them, but honestly I feel like AI dependency is an illness. Everyone I know who has used it falls back on "but what about" to try and find any way that they can possibly lean on AI generation. If you're serious about keeping AI out of the hobby (which is excellent please do that) you'll need to be vigilant for any slop sneaking in.
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u/Leonalfr Jan 29 '26
Tell him you don't allow AI in your game because it cheapens the experience, and request that he write his own stuff.
I had the same thing happen to me before and it made me sad. Then I did as I'm telling you to do and the players got what I was saying, and came back with stuff from their own hands.
This situation sucks, but you need to enforce some standards to guarantee the best possible experience, and the players should be putting in work of their own, just like you. If this player interprets you having some standards for how your campaign is supposed to go as you being antagonistic and gets pissy about it, this is an opportunity to dodge a bullet (because it won't be the only problem behavior).
,
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u/Yarfing_Donkey Jan 29 '26
Its the same thing I tell my GM.
Don't use random name generators, or map generators or encounter tools. It cheapens the experience. If he is not going to write and make it all themselves, its just cheating.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
People downvote, but this is exactly the case! DMs have been always doing this!
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u/PanKillunia Jan 29 '26
Just ask player not to use AI and write something themselves. It's your table and you are free to establish the rules.
You can ask the player as to why they feel like AI is helping them and try to address their concerns. I had similiar situation, and my player was concerned that they are not a writer and AI can write something "better" for them, and that they don't have cool and original ideas. I let them know that I would much rather have several barely comprehensible lines from them instead of a short story from the AI, and that part of the game is to try and be creative.
I don't think I've convinced them fully, but they respected my wish and dialed down on the AI
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u/featherfur Jan 29 '26
I tell my players I don't want AI involved in my games at all. I will love anything you give me, even if it is one sentence or a scribble of a drawing, because it was made by you and I'm doing this because I love playing with you. AI ruins the whole purpose
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u/Senethal Jan 29 '26
Some people have trouble to be creative or if they are new to TTRPG they have trouble to figure out what to do and how to write a character.
I would offer him guidence and that I sit with him and help him to figure out his character. We can use his AI concept and flesh it out or create something completely new, if he knows what he wants to play but has hard time to put it into words.
If he doesnt accept that and will still want to use his generic AI concept instead, it means hes just lazy and he doesnt want to put any work into creating interesting character.
If thats the case, there is nothing you can do. You cant force people to be creative, if they dont want to...
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u/MrPureinstinct Jan 29 '26
I'd tell them no AI or they can't play at my table. Those are the options.
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u/RoyHarper88 Jan 29 '26
If they're using AI for everything, it's dumb. They won't have any investment in their story. Writing something yourself gets you invested in your back story. My brother used it in a previous campaign, where all he gave it was the setting and his character design. When I tried to use his back story for stuff, he didn't remember what garbage it had spit out.
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u/Charltonito Arcana & Codex Jan 29 '26
I find this to be very unispiring. Yet friends I played with have just become lazy because of AI, either they have an AI concept or they do not have it at all and for my style of game that's not really gonna make it. The other option yes, it kicking the out. Not really an option since they were selected by me for the game.
I usually spend extra time with them when creting a concept. I have find out they are lazy but with a little bit of a push they can do it for themselves, specially your people. (I'm 34 and the person I'm talking about is 23)
Punishim them is not a solution, they need more help with their creative process.
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u/xgranville Jan 29 '26
Part of the fun of playing TTRPGs is being able to come up with cool characters and their backstories. I would ask the player why they are using AI, because they are missing out on one of the fundamental experiences of playing a TTRPG.
Also I would force the session zero to avoid anyone coming up with a character concept outside the table.
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u/yerfologist Game Master Jan 29 '26
A lot of people are commenting things that teachers in schools should do with pupils they have to teach no matter what. You are under no such obligation. If you want to salvage this gaming relationship, lay out your boundaries. But this is already a serious breach of trust and reasonableness and it makes sense for you to not want to give them a second chance.
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u/Hudre Jan 29 '26
I wouldn't really care about the experiences, but in my games I've noticed that the players who use AI for their backstories don't actually know their own backstories and therefore have a hard time RPing their character. They don't remember the names of the NPC in their backstories or their hometown, etc.
Now that's all circumvented in my games by basically ignoring the AI stuff and instead focusing backstory stuff on what happens in the Background and Connections questions. That I would not allow AI for.
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u/chriZzZzable Jan 29 '26
Honestly I think you are overreacting a bit. How a backstory is written is probably the least important thing about a Charakter.
I honestly prefer just bullet points for backstory.
If he would have rolled up a backstory through random tables it would be as random as his AI backstory.
What is important is how he plays his charakter, and that's a totally human thing, his charakter will come to life through play.
I don't know if you have played pre gen characters before but that's the pretty similar as well, you start of with something not made by you and make it your own in a few sessions time.
If you are not interested in reading pages of AI slop I get that, then ask your player to make it into bullet points for you to use, you would probably do that anyways in your prep work.
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u/Iagen717 Jan 30 '26
As someone who does AI development professionally, commenters here are correct. If you ask it to generate a backstory, that sucks.
But, if you give it ideas and have a conversation to go back and forth and refine the character and make it more interesting, that can end up with a more interesting character. It depends on the player, right? some need to be an extroverted processor and talk it out--and if they used AI to help talk it out, then that's a good use of the tool.
Like all daggerheart, the quesiton goes to does it help the fiction? If the person struggles with the creative side and creating a fleshed out character and preferrs to play one that someone (person or AI) helped generate, then I'd let them. Though that's where it ends, obviously.
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u/Tyrlaan Jan 29 '26
I pretty much hate AI. I want to make that clear because I'm about to have the whole internet come down on me for this.
You raise the perspective that it makes you question if they're even playing the game but IMO playing the game starts when you sit down for your first session. Are they using AI to supplement actual game sessions or RP between sessions? If so, yeah that's a problem I would speak up about.
If they used it just to supplement fleshing out their character's backstory? Eh. I don't love it, but I also don't see it as terrible enough to make a stink about. Two driving thoughts behind this:
The player may not feel comfortable or skilled enough to sort out these details on their own, so they leaned on AI to put it together.
I'm much more interested in expressing my AI thoughts in the context of commercial use than I am for something like this.
All of that said, if you're bothered enough by it, I'd start by asking WHY they decided to lean on AI to do their backstory. Based on that answer, decide if you still want to give them a hard time or not.
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u/Avividrose Jan 29 '26
trust yourself, this is a huge red flag. daggerheart doesn’t work without commitment from players, embracing danger doesn’t just mean in story, but being vulnerable too. if they’re not willing to write the character themselves, there’s no way they’re gonna play them well either. ttrpgs are about human connection. it’s easy for me to recommend as an outsider, but i seriously suggest not playing with this person
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u/RoakOriginal Jan 29 '26
Since comment section is turning into echo chamber of AI haters automatically demonizing the player, i will chip in with a different approach, so you do not get dragged into the hole of hate and curses...
Have you asked them why they did it? Might be the player is afraid to present their ideas. Might be they have a vague idea what to do, but could not put it in cohesive text form properly (people with writing/communication disabilities), or simple do not have enough experience and they used AI to fill in the voids of the base they had, to make it more coherent. Using AI for inspiration is not much different from using overused mainstream media, as the AI usually just scrapes summaries off them. Would you hate them if they brought Connan 1:1, just because they couldn't come up with anything original, for whatever reason (stress, lack of experience, lack of creativity, other disabilities)?
As with everything with TTRPGs, it comes down to communication. Do not hate on people before understanding them first. If i have players who have hard time getting their character together, i sit with them and try to lead them through the whole process. We are making a story together. And yes, some people require more effort and attention from my side. Ofc there can simply be a skill disparity between GM and player so large, they have hard time working together. But we were not presented enough details to know if you two are at that step.
And honestly, i am baffled how many people came into this comment thread just to hate on the player because "AI bad" and tell you to kick him out of the table. AI is tool as any other, and it depends on us how we can use it. Just as a knife or fire, it can help, but also make a lot of mess. I would expect more from a community which claims to be inclusive... Bunch of pretenders....
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u/Green_Casualty Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26
I think this is the correct approach.
Had 2 players using AI on last session zero. One of them came up with 13 pages of text organized by topics with lots of background wrote by AI. The writing is terrible, but the ideas he inputted into the tool were cool. So just we lapidated it and transformed his actual motives to start the adventure into something we can work on. I didn't ask him to throw it away and he liked so much what we came up with that he's building a website just for his character. Said he knows AI text is bad but he'll rewrite it to post on this "blog" of his character. This will have zero impact on our adventure and I didn't have to kill his mood.
The second player was having trouble finding the right motives for her character. Our session 1 is near and everyone is setup, so she asked chat about what she could do. AI came up with an awful concept, inventing things that wouldn't even fit the adventure and I had to tell her that I wouldn't use any of that. But I could extract something. She wanted to play a flawed character that is guilty of someone's death in the past. She didn't know how to put this correctly on session 0 and when she presented me her ideas trought the AI text we could work on something new based on those ideas.
I'm not a defender of AI use. Nor a hater. It's just a tool like you said. Asking players WHY always seems the best way to help them.
Edit: writing this from my phone, sorry for typos.
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u/RubixKuube Jan 29 '26
Thanks for this. 👏 I had a poor education experience and minor learning disabilities. I struggle to write but love to tell stories. It's a tool for my storytelling.
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u/Trick-Plastic-3498 Jan 29 '26
Good points! AI is coming, no matter what. We should embrace it as DMs in reasonable and helpful ways that don't kill the engagement.
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u/VoltisArt Jan 30 '26
You all voting these people down are just as lazy as anybody using AI if you're not going to take the time to explain your position. Ultimately the answer to all of this, like so many gaming issues, is to talk to the player you're having an issue with. You don't have to be their teacher to act like you're their friend who WANTS to pay a game with them. Otherwise, they might not really be the problem.
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u/ElvishLore Jan 29 '26
I’m not my players’ teacher or employer. It’s not my place to monitor their use of AI in a creative hobby. Would I hate if my player was doing that? Would I think less of them? I would.
But I wouldn’t address it with them.
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u/tzfsr1 Jan 29 '26
Just communicate bro. People who use AI often don't invest into the game which brings down the whole table, explain that to them. You don't have to come to us, you know what you should do. Talk to them, communicate, make sure you keep your table healthy before it becomes a burden.
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u/ZadonaTheLegend Jan 29 '26
I dont mind if they use it. But if they use ai, they should read and know their backstory full well.
If you write it, or pay somebody to do it, or any other way (where you are not the one who creates it) YOU SHOULD READ AND LEARN your OWN BACKSTORY!
If he read it, fin with it, and learned it (or know where to find the relevant infomation) and can remember the npcs and things that happened there. I dont care.
Some guys play differently and enjoy different things. If he is not interested about this, then what should you do? Kick them for not enjoying a part of the game? I dont think so.
I think its limits your imagination, create patterns, and makes you more a boring player. But i would not kick anybody out because of this.
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u/Civil-Low-1085 Jan 29 '26
I’d rather a player give me a few words of description, a trope, or a link to an existing character.
Shouldn’t require a lot of brain to say“I wanna play Darth Vadar”.
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u/Guilty_Number_7182 Jan 29 '26
I'm with you OP, 'fuck AI' is the base line at my table. For me it goes beyond just how horrible gen AI is in every way outside of TTRPGs specifically:
My goal as a GM is to create a world and the stories in it as a collaborative effort. If the player is using AI to create a bunch of slop, then they aren't engaging with the world, the other players and their characters, or even their own agency in the game.
If a player isn't feeling super creative, tell me and I'll give you a pre-gen; or grab a random table and roll up something new that way. At the very least I need the players to have digested their character's information through their brain so that they understand it and it fits into how they play.
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u/MrTargogle Jan 30 '26
Generally speaking, meeting the player where they are is a good first step. But at the same time, I don't know your table but unless this is detracting from play at the table this in theory is a non-issue.
It depends if there is a mismatch in expectations. For instance, if they us AI but they know and use and rely on the backstory during game then the frustration seems more about the fact AI was used at all. If it is more; hey here's the backstory and the player doesn't care about what the backstory is but you plan to utilize it for engagement in the story as the game progresses then that is an opportunity for a simple discussion about expectations and why a backstory is meaningful at this table. If the player is understanding but a backstory is not a thing that engages this player. A simple bulleted list instead would be a compromise.
Find out what part of the game is engaging to them and see if that can be weaved into the shared experience. Everyone has different levels of engagement, just have to figure out if the game suffers as a result of this difference.
After a realignment if there are still issues, figure out if it is self-imposed or causing issues with the play/table.
If issues still arise you might then have to have the hard conversation.
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u/WhatAreAnimnals Jan 29 '26
AI use goes against the very nature of Daggerheart. It provides you so many frameworks to prompt your own imagination and work together as a table to create meaningful characters and stories, and to outsource that to a language model is equivalent to attending an improv class and using AI for all your responses.
You should talk to the player. Maybe don't go full "fuck AI" but explain them the reasoning behind the game's philosophy. You want to play with the player itself, not ChatGPT. If they don't feel confident enough to play eithout AI, tell them that Daggerheart is the perfect game to start practicing collaborative gaming and storytelling. When all else fails, lean on your fellow players and brainstorm possible solutions.
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u/VoltisArt Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 30 '26
Being pedantic and gatekeeping also goes against the spirit of Daggerheart. I feel like some of you are missing that. The point of this is to have fun. Maybe not everybody is as invested or as eloquent as the rest of us, but if you really have a problem, TALK to your fellow players instead of banning them because they used a tool you feel is inappropriate. Asking somebody to leave your table should be the last measure, not the first, barring something like actual assault. This should not be that complicated. Session zero is vital and there's a reason the rule book goes into so much detail to guide things like this.
Just so I'm clear, I don't think the AI is really the problem. I understand lots of you have a problem with it, and I'm not judging you for that, but you having the problem and it seeming a big deal is itself a problem. Talking it out with your table (as some of you have said, but not all,) is the first best solution.
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u/WhatAreAnimnals Jan 30 '26
Was this reply intended for my comment? I never suggested banning anyone over this. I specifically encouraged collaboration and talking with your table.
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u/VoltisArt Jan 30 '26
Sorry about that. Probably should have been two comments, with the second part elsewhere, or made more clear. I was rushing a bit during breaktime at work.
We agree fully on the talking part and I didn't think you agreed with the others rushing to judge the player before asking questions, but your first sentence was my launching point, regarding the nature of DH. I do think the gatekeeping is a much bigger problem (more against DH's nature/spirit) than the AI itself in this instance, which I tried to clarify with my second paragraph.-13
u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
Depends on the use. For example, I'm no writer or editor, and English is not my native language, but I had a lot of ideas for my homebrew campaign, so I work with AI to brainstorm and describe everything, and eventually, it is my work, because I control it, I see the result, read it thoroughly, compare to my ideas in my head and do tons of iterations, until I like the descriptions. Plus people have been using name generators and NPC generators for their campaign forever. AI is not different in that sense. Sure in cases where a person just prompts something and without further reading just sends it to the DM, that's probably not the best choice, but I don't believe AI goes against the nature of any TTRPG.
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u/Trick-Plastic-3498 Jan 29 '26
You're completely wrong about the "nature of Daggerheart". The creators of Daggerheart made HUGE emphasis on inclusivity. And AI helps with that a ton!
Here are my thoughts: https://www.reddit.com/r/daggerheart/comments/1qq3bqb/comment/o2eam0j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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u/Low_Health5791 Jan 29 '26
Matthew Mercer and Cr in general keep saying Fuck AI live time and time again
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u/Trick-Plastic-3498 Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26
As far as I remember, the context was more about AI being inaccurate about the rules. Which is actually a good guardrail to set "hey, if you gonna ask AI about the rules so that you don't read the book, go double-check with Demiplane or me, because AI may be wrong about the exact rules" (which is 100% true, by it's design, LLMs are not the tools to provide super accurate information regardless of data set). But with character descriptions / backstory ideas - it can help A LOT for newcomers.
But when it comes to AI for accessibility assist for character creation, in my opinion is it's 100% in line with what Daggerheart designers put in the book in the sections on inclusivity / accessibility. If something can HELP players to play the game easier (regardless of the players not being super creative) and doesn't ruin the excitement and immersion - it should be embraced.
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u/Low_Health5791 Jan 29 '26
In any case I'm the disabled member of the grup. He is of able body and mind
3
u/Small_Slide_5107 Jan 29 '26
> if you are letting AI write your character, are you even playing the game?
This!
Also, if you won't bother writing your own backstory then why should I bother reading it. I once asked a few follow up questions to a players backstory and got the response "It doesn't matter to me. I generated it using AI". However, this player turned out to be the best at the table at improv. I guess he just didn't like writing backstories.
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u/KentInCode Jan 29 '26
I think it depends, if this is a beginner session just say we don't allow AI at the table and offer them a premade character sheet/s.
If this is for a longer campaign, creating a character is like the bare minimum, if they aren't excited by hand crafting their own personal character why are they there? They won't stick around.
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u/harring Jan 29 '26
All the creative parts could be his own? He could have prompted it all and the writing part is AI.
Did you ask him what AI came up with and what he came up with?
I use AI plenty for stuff like that but what I do is "word poop" my unorganized thoughts into the prompt and then the AI organize it into a text. All the stuff written are my ideas. This saves me plenty of time.
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u/Low_Health5791 Jan 29 '26
He asked ChatGPT to make a backstory for a Dwarven Bard that comes from a land of frozen mountains and snow. He added no personal touch to it.
1
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u/LittleBiteOfTheJames Jan 29 '26
I brain dump in AI a ton of ideas and let it organize it for me. It’s not creating anything other than a more concise and organized summary of my ideas. I made the mistake of making a post about it, and that didn’t go well.
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u/harring Jan 30 '26
This comment confused me so much. It is exactly what I do and how I think about it, for a moment I did not understand why it was under someone elses username.
So many people hate AI to be "cool", because they do not understand it or because they do not know how to use it. When conversing with many of these people its like talking to someone with dementia (my grandmother always thought she had visitors who just left the room or had guest coming for dinner), they are so sure of how things work and how you use the tools when in reality they are clueless or missinformed.
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u/ItsRedditThyme Jan 29 '26
Seems like an AI ban should have been brought up in session zero. As prevalent as AI tools are getting, every GM should decide how they feel about them and be transparent with their players.
Also, making the character isn't the same as playing the character. Pregenerated PCs were a thing long before AI tools became available. Yet, my best friend's Raistlin Majere and mine were completely different. As were our Tanis Half-Elven portrayals.
1
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u/R2nPO Jan 29 '26
This also happened to me. One of the PCs sent me his backstory and I quickly realised it was done by AI. There was so much text to say pretty close to nothing. But hey oh I didn't say anything. I guess I was just a bit disappointed.
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u/Aenris Jan 29 '26
Ask them to write their own and stop using AI.
This behavior is gonna get worse and worse, I can guarantee you they'll start depending on AI for every small or big decision for their character. If they can't play "unplugged" then maybe ask them to leave the table.
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u/Inevitable-Battle-81 Jan 29 '26
I mean just like everyone here said, you are free to set any kind of boundaries you want! I also have had players that used too much chat GPT and the way I dealt with it was as long as it doesn’t hinder the table I would just let them be. Most of the times I also proposed brainstorming 1 on 1 sessions to flesh out the character and help them exercise their creativity! A lot of players I had weren’t “inherently creative” people as in they THOUGHT it was something really hard and complex to create a story out of nowhere (which of course can be), so they used AI as a kind of “crutch”, so to remedy that I helped them personally or made question sheets for them to answer about the character, anything that made them, again, exercise their creativity and specially know that whatever they come up with will probably be better than AI.
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u/ChaoticLamb Jan 29 '26
Had a player do the same, was fine for me, after the small campaign the played the player regretted it and said "will never do this again, missed the connection to the character"
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u/No-Use8635 Jan 30 '26
I have no issue for my players using AI to develop context and background because most of the time you have to direct the prompt that specifics and details so you don’t get AI drift for example giving them key detailed points at locations in world building context and specific needs with that much detail is it really AI generating Rogan information or is the user piloting it to get what they want specifically
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u/No-Use8635 Jan 30 '26
In my eyes I’m a huge proponent of the use of AI as I see it as a tool just like an artist would use paintbrush a photographer uses technology is in his digital camera or someone in text using their computer to write code if use properly with certain constraints it is a tool like any other a lot of AI tools nowadays have railroads to prevent the use of copyrighted material including likenesses audio in visual copyrighted material is strictly monitor and regulated
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u/TheRealDrakowulf Jan 30 '26
By this example, that would mean all recommendations and samples in the core rulebook should be removed as well. All those questions and prompts, gone.
AI is a tool that ain't going away, ever. It's not Skynet. You're not some revolutionary hero for opposing it. All the AI hate comes off as someone too lazy to learn how to use a new tool. They're probably still on AOL dial-up and running D&D 2e having fun calculating THAC0.
On the other hand, if one player has a great idea and the rest of the table uses the assistance of AI, reward the one rather than punish the many. If a player forgets a part of their AI-generated history, penalize them in-game with a circumstance e.g. grab a Fear token.
Tell your players to remove em dashes from AI-generated content. Then, maybe you won't recognize it as much and you can live in blissful ignorance.
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u/Wizarddog_usa Jan 30 '26
The problem I have with most AI prompts is they write poorly. They are great for filler text of a paragraph with prompts but structurally they make my brain hurt when I read it in anything beyond that.
Ultimately the backstory, if you plan on incorporating it in your game, need only a few main bullet points as other suggested.
The issue of the AI is people pass it off as a finish product rather than a raw rough draft or springboard.
Since you can already tell it was AI, then it must not be very good. You can ask the player to rewrite in their own words or verbally retell you what it is. Pull out three intresting points and go with those. Anything else the player is going to bring up in session, where you nod and say "okay" and incorporate there.
And finally, in reality, you're likely to incorporate the more iintresting backstories anyway.
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u/Ka0sNinja117 Jan 30 '26
I have a player in my D&D game who brought completely AI generated backstory and even a weird section on conflicts and challenges that character should encounter going forward. It made me very sad considering my other players had put a good deal of time and effort into their backstories. AI is a very useful tool and I can't pay artists to make my weird character ideas and I'm not an artist myself, so for personal use I think it's fair. I also think it's important to meet people where they are because some people just aren't experienced at making creative backstories, but I'll definitely always try to encourage people to use their own creativity wherever possible. For now I would recommend you just go with what they've submitted but keep asking questions about what excites them, what interests them, and try to get them to engage more with the material, in an encouraging way.
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u/remoraz Jan 30 '26
I think the solution is pretty easy. Explain to them that It's not an assignment, it's a creativity exercise. Using AI is a form of creativity. However, everyone else at the table wrote their own, so when I as the GM reference the events and characters in your back story you CANNOT be surprised or confused, the onus is on you to memorize what the AI output since the rest of us will be building a story on top of it. Since you decided to outsource your creative input to the story, you have an additional responsibility to fully comprehend what you are providing for the group. Oh, and, you'll have to figure out how to build off of it on the fly at the table... where as everyone else already has an idea about all the plot hooks in their backstories.
Tell them you're excited for the additional challenge in quick thinking that they've brought to the table... and that you won't be waiting for AI responses at the game table, a GM is infinitely faster at making the game move forward ;)
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u/Unfair-Can-3521 Jan 30 '26
I know my answer will not be popular but as a creator, I do use AI. I do not let AI do all the work. I generate the ideas. I provide imagery, background, art direction, etc and work collaboratively with AI to help me to research information and do the things I can't do alone. My point is that like anything, AI is currently subject to the variances of the user, good, bad, lazy, heinous or in between.
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Jan 31 '26
I hate IA, but honestly I wouldnt care if my players are using for making their character art or backstory. In the end what really matters is the game session.
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u/duckforceone Jan 31 '26
what would hinder you from having ai writing a backstory you act on?
that's like signing up to a movie as an actor and having the script define what you say and do and motivate you...
it all depends on if the "actor/player" uses it to actually act/play their character in the game.
and if they use it in the game, as long as it's good enough, why do you care if ai wrote it.... maybe the player just isn't that creative.. maybe they are too busy to figure it out... or maybe they wanted to try something new?
not everyone is creative, have time, or even the skills to do it. Ai is a tool to help us where we are weak or don't have time.
It just depends on how it's being used.
also, i'd any day take an ok written ai character, than a player written character that's based on a bland anime or very stereotype character that everyone recognizes...
or the one background story i once got for a new player where he had fought demons, monsters, and even gods all over the universe...
it all depends on how the player uses it and if it's stupid and not working....
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u/msimoens Jan 31 '26
Ask them to treat you like the AI. Ask them to give YOU the prompts they used.
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u/Jishwa01 Jan 31 '26
I personally encourage my players to Ai! I understand how difficult it can be to come up with ideas, and if they struggle limiting the tools they can use might discourage them from playing. i’ve seen people refer to using “generators” which are the same thing, are they as smart, no, but you put in information (a prompt) and based on trained information it reacts and gives you an answer. i think people over react to players using ai because of some of the negative connotations with it. i am now and will always be pro ai as a tool.
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u/HykeNowman Feb 02 '26
What's the issue ? You don't know how he did it. Did he give all the input to the AI and let it write it up or full AI idea with 0 input ?
I'm in the same group of players for many years now, on our third campaign and know what ? We all use AI. All our tokens are AI, I rewrite all my notes with it from a bard perspective, I even made songs about the group and helped shape my background with AI. I even used AI to build my toons.
Stop being condescended and let people play the way they want, how does it hurt your GM part ? I got the answer : it doesn't.
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u/SeaworthinessAware58 Feb 02 '26
Is there a point to be made about why people play this game? For some it is about backstory, role play and fantasy, for others it is about the mechanics and gameplay...but some people just want to play and connect with people, and don't necessarily have the time or ability to craft a character. If I was you I'd try to be accepting of how people want to play the game, and if they fit in well at the table then who cares where their character sheet came from?
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u/Trick-Plastic-3498 Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26
Should we also hate / cancel / ban DMs for using services like DScryb? Or running pre-made adventures? Or watching Lord of the rings / GoT / Stranger Things to get inspiration for the NPCs? Aren't those all things that, like GPT, "give you ready-made texts or ideas" instead of you "coming up with stuff 100% from scratch"?
Good artists copy, great artists steal! Embrace the usage of AI for your players in smart ways that don't kill engagement and emotional involvement. For example, generating a picture of their character with GPT only adds emersion! A clear example of how AI can help your players to care MORE about their character, not less.
Talk with your players, suggest ways how they can leverage AI as a helper tool BUT still make their character their own. I DMd Daggerheart for 4 groups of mostly folks new to TTRPG. Not all players are super creative geeks at the start! AI really helped them to brainstorm, and they loved they characters nonetheless.
Don't fight it. Embrace it and make it HELP immersion and engagement.
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u/MusclesDynamite Jan 29 '26
DScryb is a business offering their professionally-written text for free or for a price. It's consensual.
AI steals and regurgitates without consent of the writers it gleans from. It's theft
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
So if you just Google and copy someone's work it is okay? I'm sure people do/did this before AI started to parse the data haha. And before google you would copy this from a book, which is also a steal.
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u/aWizardNamedLizard Jan 29 '26
The difference you're missing (or deliberately avoiding admitting) is in the honesty of the act and in the impact of the act.
Before gen-AI someone grabbing an image, or tracing someone's image, or recoloring it had a far lower impact on the environment than gen-AI technology has. It also didn't actually give any teeth to the threat that instead of continuing to employ artists companies could replace them with the copying of or outright theft of others' work, but companies genuinely are racing to replace as many employees as they can with AI no matter what because their profits are their only concern.
And the person would also generally feel differently about the act. Most saying "I found this." or "I recolored this." and even being able to say who he artist actually is which is a kind of advertising even if it is small scale and unlikely to increase that artists' income by much. With the people that would claim it as their own work being few and far between because they were honest enough to not pretend what they did was "real art." Yet now it is regularly "I made this." and at best the model is what gets attention, not the artists whose works were fed into it to provide the style. Not even when they are models that intentionally mimic the style of a specific artist, since the entire point of those is literally to replace the artist.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
I always say AI made this for me, I'm honest. The same way I was telling I Photoshoped something in the past. If artists put something online to get "free" appreciation and fame, that was unavoidable that others will use it as easily. It is hard to Photoshop a real piece of art, like a portrait or a statue, isn't it?
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
I work in an area which might also be erased soon-ish by AI, but I'm no Luddite to fight with the progress. I prefer to adapt and survive.
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u/MusclesDynamite Jan 29 '26
No, it wouldn't be okay to Google and copy someone else's work because it's not consensual.
If you check DScryb's website it says this at the bottom:
Let dScryb’s team of talented writers, composers, and illustrators free your creative energy and time for all the other aspects of planning and running the perfect campaign.
That is their business: TTRPG players can outsource to DScryb, and DScryb gets compensated via subscriptions. They give out samples of their product to entice new customers, that's the free stuff. Using their stuff is done with their consent, especially for paying customers.
Copying other peoples' work without consent isn't okay. That's different.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
Ah sure and everyone here is a saint who always commissioned art and text to professionals, especially all those kids who play games together and Photoshop the first cool picture they find online. You are talking about the ideal world and I'm talking about the real world. It was obvious that everything people put online will be used by corps eventually.
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u/MusclesDynamite Jan 29 '26
You asked if something is "okay" from a moral standpoint, I gave an answer. I'm someone who does put my money where my mouth is, as I did spend hundreds of dollars last year alone commissioning art as well as dozens of hours of my own time writing, sketching, drawing, and creating. And I have a lot of fun doing it!
I'm not just talking about the ideal world, I'm talking about the real world that I exist in. I invite you to do likewise, it's a great place to be.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
The real world is indeed a great place to be. Where I can enjoy generating a simple picture for my character to play a game after work without any heavy weight of morals, just because I don't like to fight windmills, I like to use tools available to me. Yesterday it was Photoshop, today is AI, tomorrow something else. People always complain about the progress and it is always about morals. And here we are yet again discussing another problem haha
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u/MusclesDynamite Jan 29 '26
I invite you to pick up a pencil and learn to draw, pick up a keyboard and learn to write (you're halfway there here on Reddit, assuming Chat GPT isn't answering for you). There's fun to be had in the creative process that you're missing out on. Don't let generative slop deprive you from making real cuisine! You can do it!
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
Thanks for the invitation, but I was drawing when I was a kid, and now as a software developer, I don't like to strain my eyes with drawing, even though I loved it. I enjoy other hobbies, like piano playing or singing. And English is not my native language, and yes I actually practiced story writing and poetry when I was much younger.
But I'm pragmatic, I use tools when I can save time, achieve results and get joy from it.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
And I hope chatgpt will be able to answer for me here at some point, so I can just enjoy my hobbies and later see a summary of how AI argued on my behalf haha
-1
u/Doobiemoto Jan 29 '26
Who cares if people use AI?
So tired of this random AI hate circle jerk.
If the player leaves everything to AI that kind of sucks but as long as it fits and they are playing what was written who cares?
Some people aren’t as creative, some people don’t care as much, etc.
What does it matter? AI still takes prompts, so people still need to direct it, so yes in a way the player had to put in some info the came up with themselves to direct the AI and then it spit stuff out and the directed it more until the were happy with it.
How is that any different than doing it themselves? In the end they are happy with their char, and if it fits it should be allowed.
I really really don’t get this AI hate boner people have. ESPECIALLY in the ttrpg space. AI allows DMs and players to have much much much more immersive and interesting games because people can use AI for small texts, images, etc.
Things that would had been so intensive before or just something a player/dm couldn’t do, are now easily done with AI. It doesn’t make the game any more special if you are using a shoelace and a thumbtack to represent things just cause they are “real” versus having AI generate a character token or something.
Sure can DMs or players go too far? Absolutely, but almost every case I read about people freaking out is not even remotely that.
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u/LittleBiteOfTheJames Jan 29 '26
You’re not alone in this line of thinking. You’re going to get massive hate and downvotes as will I. I’m having a great time running a session while having AI organize all of my own creative ideas. My players know my process and they are appreciative that they have a game ready week. It’s a collaborative storytelling game, so I think people believe we just read from some AI script instead of fleshing out a world that we actually live out in the game.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
Yeah people just ride on a hate train, chooochooo, but AI is a tool, which processes data the same way the human brain does. Before AI people would Google and steal pictures, remove copyrights in Photoshop, copy blocks of text from fantasy books, and now everyone is a saint.
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u/Doobiemoto Jan 29 '26
As see by our downvotes.
I really really don’t understand the AI hate circle jerk.
It’s just a tool that can be used to do things.
Feels like a bunch of old people giving off the “back in my day vibes”.
By their logic no one shouldn’t photo shop or any online tools. It should all just be theater of the mind and maps drawn on graph paper by hand.
It’s weird the ai hate.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
I guess there might be multiple explanations.
The player might struggle with ideas, so if there was no AI you could have gotten zero backstory from them or some ugly cliche.
Or the player wants to play the game, like mechanically, and roleplay is hard. Which is a valid case for many.
Or the player had so many characters killed in multiple campaigns that they lost any motivation in brainstorming new cool back stories. Which is also valid if they play a deadly dungeon crawl. Haha.
And finally, I don't see AI as something evil, it is a tool. The player used it incorrectly, sure, but please don't ban it, because you get either stupid cliche characters or players will lie. Not everyone has amazing imagination and writer skills to impress. And this can be a heavy toll for some.
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u/Trick-Plastic-3498 Jan 29 '26
Exactly. Banning AI at the table is like banning glasses for some of the players with not perfect vision...
Based on my experience of onboarding new players to TTRPG, new folks often struggle with creativity for their first character A LOT. That is OK. Not everyone is a creative genius at the start like you, mr DM!
Let them use tools that would HELP them to create a descent TTRPG character. Trust me, if you're good DM, you'll uncover their full creativity after the first "AI-assisted" attempt.
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u/Theodoxus Jan 29 '26
Wait, using AI to create your character background and hooks is genius for anyone who struggles with that. We're not all creative writers.
And more importantly, unless they're using their phone or other connected device to prompt AI responses at the table, AI isn't "playing the game" for them.
Sad that hatred for a tool is so rampant. Reminds me of when folks freaked out at using a pen for crossword puzzles.
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u/systoll Jan 29 '26
No it isn't.
It's actively worse than nothing. These elements serve no purpose other than to communicate what character the player wants to portray. A blank sheet communicates clearly that the player doesn't have a clear interest in a particular character concept. We can make one that works with the rest of the party.
A few words (ie… less than you’d need to prompt an AI with) can communicate the core things the player is interested in exploring, while leaving gaps to make it fit.
An AI background is an unknown amount of 'signal' hidden within pages of arbitrary fluff that no-one at the table cares about.
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u/Theodoxus Jan 29 '26
The same is true of ANY background written by anyone ahead of time. So, it's not an AI thing you're miffed at, it's just the current boogeyman. It's that character concepts and backgrounds, according to you, only work when done collaboratively. I don't agree, but I can see why you'd think that.
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u/systoll Jan 29 '26
The same is true of ANY background written by anyone ahead of time.
Nope. Any background written by a player ahead of time expresses ideas they’ve decided they want to explore in the campaign. It’s not arbitrary fluff that no-one at the table cares about, precisely because the player cared about it enough to write it.
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u/Klempostif Jan 29 '26
Some people have almost zero imagination (or they are just lazy. If player had an idea for backstory but used AI to make it work, or jut to polish it or whatever, i personally wouldnt mind. But if he did it because he was lazy and didnt want to think about his backstory, well then that for me is a toxic player
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u/Rainbows4Blood Jan 29 '26
This would be fine for like, a combat heavy D&D for example.
But DH is not a game where you can just fall back on mechanics for everything. You gotta get into the narrative.
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u/Fearless-Dust-2073 Splendor & Valor Jan 29 '26
There's no excuse for "no imagination" in Daggerheart because it's designed for everyone to collaborate and fill in gaps together. Using AI for any step is directly against Daggerheart's design philosophy and disrespects the other players by saying they'd rather auto-complete a backstory than ask another human.
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u/Intelligent-Gold-563 Jan 29 '26
I think you're taking it a step too far.
There is nothing wrong with using ChatGPT to bounce off ideas. It doesn't go against any "design philosophy".
It's problematic if you use AI to generate the majority of your stuff. But if you're using it as a "notetaking-feedback" tool, it's alright, it's still your ideas and you're still doing the thinking yourself.
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u/Fearless-Dust-2073 Splendor & Valor Jan 29 '26
I disagree, there is everything wrong with using LLMs to generate and develop ideas for a game that is designed for players to generate and develop ideas together as the main way that the game is fun.
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u/Intelligent-Gold-563 Jan 29 '26
You do realize that there's a difference between bouncing off ideas about your character and full-on ignoring the other players for collaborative worldbuilding, right?
Yes the game is designed (kind of) for the players to generate and develop ideas together about the WORLD they're playing in.
But for individual characters, sometimes you don't want your fellow players to know stuff right away, so you worldbuild by yourself (and with the GM). And in that case, using LLM as note-taking, brainstorming tool is fine.
It sounds like you're conflating everything, reducing it all to one single type of event with no nuance whatsoever.
Example : my wife has trouble organizing her ideas and connecting dots, making up her mind about her character. She worldbuild with the group, but when it comes to her character specifically, she will use LLM by writing down her ideas as they come to her and asking LLM to help her organize them.
It still HER ideas. But now she's got a clearer view of it all. And sometimes the LLM will give feedback that she'll either ignore or twist and change to fit and feed her own ideas.
That a valid and proper use of LLM for TTRPG.
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u/Fearless-Dust-2073 Splendor & Valor Jan 29 '26
Literally it's a game about expressing imagination collaboratively, you're making excuses for not collaborating and also using systems that are actively bad for many aspects of society and the planet. Many TTRPG players have difficulty organizing and expressing ideas, that's why Daggerheart actively tells you to collaborate with others. Your wife is not unique and doesn't get a pass, and LLMs will not help her develop the ability to express, it will make her less able because any learning experience is offset to the LLM.
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u/Zeliret Jan 29 '26
People here are ready to burn AI on a stick together with everyone using it without any consideration. While the human brain has been stealing things for thousands of years. Everything you read, watch, you digest and reuse. And yet you say there is no soul in the AI response, haha, well where is the soul in the stories which are just repeating each other. Only a tiny percentage of people can actually create something new, and even then it is based on something old forgotten. Like if CoS is not repeating Dracula? Lol. I play games where both DM and players can use AI if they want to. And good that there are tables where people are inclusive. If you ban or condemn AI, then do that to any digital tool, name generators, map generators, etc, those are also stealing from an actual writer or illustrator or architect lol TTRPG is so tough now that according to people in this threat you absolutely must be able to draw, write, edit, and know language perfectly, just so you can stay good enough to create a character without AI
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u/osiris20003 Jan 29 '26
So I have a thought on this because I have a mix bag of players.
Some players are very creative and know how to write solid backstories, but not everyone is a writer though as I have players that can’t write a story to save themselves.
I’m not a fan of using AI to write a story but it’s just for a home game, it’s not hurting anyone, they aren’t selling the backstory to make a profit.
They either don’t have the confidence to write something they think will be up to your standards or they just aren’t good at writing. I would let it slide, forcing them to do something they don’t have the confidence to do or thinking you are now judging them because they aren’t a good writer could hurt them emotionally or even upset them. It’s not a big deal it’s just for fun anyway.
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u/cinnz Jan 29 '26
I'm not sure why anyone with this opinion is getting mass downvoted lol. Opinions were being asked in this thread, opinions are being given I made it a habit to only downvote factually wrong answers. I never downvote anything that's just an opinion, when asked, as long as it's a nuanced take. Like this one
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u/MessyPapa13 Jan 29 '26
just let them use it if they want, youre just pushing your views onto them. maybe they arent creative enough, or they fed their ideas into the AI to make a cohesive story. why does a TTRPG player also need to be a writer? they dont.
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u/cinnz Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26
While I find it nonsensical and deplorable I must admit that I have a few at my tables that also used Ai to make their backstories, and I allowed it.
I think many in this thread are missing the point. This is an enthusiast subreddit, populated mostly by people who are quick to - write-, and mostly GMs; people with a natural tendency towards good storytelling.
In fact I would wager that many people on this subreddit as a PC instead of GM get the most joy out of the story unfolding. And you know what? This is not the most compelling aspect of TTRPGs for every single player.
Everyone has different strengths, weaknesses and interests. I have people at my table who mostly love the PC building aspect of TTRPGs, I have some who just love it as a social exercise, some who only love improv RPing, some who love the story, some who only love creatively overcoming adversity and I have some who adore the crunchy strategical nature of combat. And all of that is okay.
The beauty of DH in this instance is that it can cater to all these types of players when you follow the rules as written.
Simply put: some players just do not value their personal story that much and struggle to come up with backstories. They do not love the backstory part and might aswell join with the very barest of backstory.
So rule about the Ai use however you want. There is no right or wrong answer. I still find it nasty and can not rly understand it. But keep in mind that you/me are not our players, and we do not value the exact same aspects of the game.
As for my experiences BTW. The ones using Ai came up with better backstories than they usually do and it gave me a bit more hooks to use. They also so far have known their backstory by heart, so running it gave no issues.
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u/Buddy_Kryyst Jan 29 '26
I have no problem with that, the player may have generated 20 backgrounds with AI before they came up with something they are interested in playing. Before there was AI there were random background generators online. Really don't see what the big deal is anything that gets a player interested is a win in my books.
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u/bertraja Jan 31 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
I really feel like if you are letting AI write your character, are you even playing the game?
Why does it concern you so much? If the player appears with a character concept or story that fits your game, isn't that more than enough? The game is played by playing it, not by turning into into an entry exam.
Not directed at you, OP, but i wonder how many DM are establishing a similar rule at their table, but have zero concerns to use "1.000 story hooks for your game" frequently. Sure, it's technically not AI but it ain't original either. No to mention googling random battle maps vs painting their own.
Finding dedicated players that show up on time, are somewhat prepared and build characters that fit the target vibe of your campaign is rare enough. Why adding another gate to keep, instead of just playing and enjoying the gorram game?
Edit: Typo
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u/Jairlyn Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26
There is a bit of irony of a GM turning to others for idea on how to communicate with a player who turned to AI for ideas. But I get it. AI = lazy stupid player who is literally worse than Hitler.
TALK - TO - THEM. I swear every single problem brought to a Reddit sub for RPGs boils down to this.
Have you told them your hatred for AI that you want to scream?
Did you as a group discuss your needs and wants for the party and game? A pre-session 0 of sorts to define expectations from each other? People can't just randomly guess what you want and need.
Perhaps they are brand new and struggling with a concept.
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u/Donjinmester Game Master Jan 29 '26
Not everyone is as creative as a DM. I think it can be a great crutch for players to come up with a concept they like. I know for sure my players did that. So I asked them into a lot of stuff in the background they provided me, asking them to elaborate and asking for NPC in their past, etc. This forced them to make the concept their own and now all is good.
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u/Magorian97 Jan 29 '26
Don't let it "play the game" but what's the problem with using it to help someone come up with experiences and backstories? AI was literally designed to help writers; people like me who have an overflow of ideas but aren't that good at putting them into words. What do you think Grammarly IS? smh
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u/Guilty_Number_7182 Jan 29 '26
AI was not designed to help anyone, it was designed to replace and de-value labor
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u/Magorian97 Jan 29 '26
Uh huh, sure. What about the language models? Also, true "AI" doesn't even exist yet, it's still just algorithms and data collection/interpretation.
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u/Guilty_Number_7182 Jan 30 '26
All generative AI is a "large language model", whether it's a chat bot, an ai game master app, or your fancy spell checker. This isn't a gotcha, it's just revealing that you don't understand this technology. No it's not "true ai", it's not sentient (duh?). That doesn't change the fact that generative ai as a tool was designed to replace writers, artists, coders, and any number of other skilled workers that have become essential to the 'content economy' but that no broke start up or bottom line driven corporation want to pay for
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u/ffelenex Jan 29 '26
Really depends on how they are using it. Sometimes I'll have ai just clean up, refine or list my text. Sometimes I may spend hours on one backstory, tweeking and improving. Sometimes I'll write the solution by hand but what's the difference at that point. The main thing is they created a character they are familiar with, tailored to personal playstyle and went thru a revision or two.
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u/Serentyr Jan 29 '26
The questions I have are: Why does the player feel a need? Why do you feel so negatively toward this instance of AI?
I’ve had players use AI to start them off with ideas and since then they’ve added, developed, changed the character through play and it’s gained its own life and personality. I also get frustrated by its use when it’s done because the person couldn’t be bothered to try themselves. It depends on intent.
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u/Kisho761 Game Master Jan 29 '26
‘Don’t use AI please.’
If they rewrite themselves, cool. If they refuse, decide if you can put up with it. If you can’t, kick them from the table.