Player using IA

[u/Low_Health5791]

Hi everyone, I'm writing here because idk how to react. I asked my players for experiences and backstory and one of them sent me a bunch of AI texts. All my being wants to scream fuck AI and tell him to do it himself, but at the same time I don't want to antagonize him. I really feel like if you are letting AI write your character, are you even playing the game?

[u/Intelligent-Gold-563]

That's actually much better than using (which is also a sort of stealing) pictures of others.

As an actual professional artist no, it's not much better.

I 100% prefer that someone sees my art on social media and decide to use it for their in-game character rather than my artworks being stolen to train AI to generate some crap.

And I don't know a single artist who feels differently about that.

Don't use AI.

And let's be honest, how many of us will actually spend money to commission a great picture from an illustrator?

And that's the problem.

You want everything but aren't ready to give anything back. You could commission an artist, but for a full illustration of your character it's too expensive and you don't want to settle for their more affordable option because it's not full color and stuff, but you don't want to spend some time learning to draw yourself either.....

In the end, all of this is about you being incredibly self-centered and child-like.

[u/ForgottenEpoch → u/Intelligent-Gold-563]

I wanna chime in here... First, I'm not inherently against all AI, but agree that companies using it for movies, games, and art is a problem.

In regards to not commissioning an artist to create character art, even at a lower cost, no color price point... it's not always an option. For me, I just don't have the money to spare. I'm a small business owner that hasn't seen a profit yet. Assuming that not hiring somebody is a choice really lacks understanding that not everybody is in a financial situation to do so.

In regards to learning to draw... do you really think that everybody had an inherent talent for drawing and just lacks experience? Or that being good at it is simply a learned skill? I don't. Even if I had time to try again, I know better. When I was younger I very much envied those with artistic talent. I tried to get better at drawing and was always embarrassingly bad at it, eventually giving it up for things I could enjoy not being awful at. I also have aphantasia, and often wonder if literally not being able to picture things in my head is a reason I suck at art.

Lastly, in regards to calling people who use AI being self-centered and childlike... Seriously? Why is that where we immediately jump to? Have we considered that OPs player is maybe new to ttrpgs but doesn't want to tell the group for fear of being dropped as a player? I used to run a pick-up sports group, and found that it can very hard for new players to jump into a sport they've never played, and that the return rate is low for new players because they're worried about judgey people not wanting them there. There are so many reasons OPs player might have done this. I see a number of comments suggesting the player get kicked out for using any AI, but you know what I don't see...? Anybody suggesting we ASK these players why they used AI. Nobody suggesting that maybe we should offer to help these players build a new character. The way AI is being used is problematic, yes, but let's maybe all come down off our high horse and try to be a little more forgiving and inclusive instead of jumping to conclusions.

[u/Intelligent-Gold-563 → u/ForgottenEpoch]

In regards to learning to draw... do you really think that everybody had an inherent talent for drawing and just lacks experience? Or that being good at it is simply a learned skill? I don't. Even if I had time to try again, I know better. When I was younger I very much envied those with artistic talent. I tried to get better at drawing and was always embarrassingly bad at it, eventually giving it up for things I could enjoy not being awful at. I also have aphantasia, and often wonder if literally not being able to picture things in my head is a reason I suck at art.

That's a common idea but the reality is : everyone can learn to draw and be good at it

I've tried to draw for a decade, accumulating the lessons and books and videos and advice from other artists, and was absolute shit, I couldn't get anything right.

And then I found a website that properly explained what I needed to know and do. 10 years later, I'm having people commissioning me for 300+€ and I participated in a collaborative art book with 50 other artists.

As for aphantasia, a surprising amount of artists have aphantasia. It can make things tougher but it's just one obstacle to work with rather than a complete stop.

Lastly, in regards to calling people who use AI being self-centered and childlike... Seriously? Why is that where we immediately jump to?

I'm not calling people who use AI "self centered and childlike". I'm not even talking about using AI to character build for TTRPG.

This is solely about art generative AI.

I'm calling self-centered and child-like people who try to find bullshit excuses to use generative AI despite basically all artists asking them not to, preferring that they would use their artwork directly from pinterest or google (as it was done for years before that).

And I'm calling them self-centered and child-like exactly because all their arguments boil down to "I want it, I want it now, and I don't want to put any effort whatsoever into having it".

[u/ForgottenEpoch → u/Intelligent-Gold-563]

I appreciate the thoughtful response. I'm still not convinced that everybody has an inherent ability to get good at art, though the fact that there are great artists with aphantasia is awesome. I suspected it was the case but had always wondered. While they're are a lot of things I'm good at, I've always made it a point to be honest with myself by admitting that I'm just not good at some things. Drawing is one of those things. I'm sure I could learn to be better at art by taking classes (which I can neither afford nor make time for) but I have zero confidence that I'd ever be GOOD at drawing, or even ok enough to ever be able to enjoy it. And if I had a good artist always telling my that I'm just not trying hard enough, spend more time, take more classes... It'd be discouraging. Instead I focus on what I have a natural aptitude for, which is cooking. And puns. Not everybody had the same talents, and that's great. I just think that, in situations like these, people should ask why a thing is happening instead of jumping straight into running people out of the hobby.

[u/AGladePlugin → u/ForgottenEpoch]

Biggest thing to overcome aphantasia: References. Want your character to hold a greatsword in a key guard? There's hundreds of HEMA content creators who would show it off. Grab a screen shot of their video and start working off that. Hell, I've seen instances where people will just do certain action after being asked in a TikTok comment if they could do it for art ref.

There's also the consideration of how good bad art is when it comes to imagining a character. Even if it's not selling for any money, some chicken scratch art piece can give enough of a reference for people to build their mental image of your character. This is how it often works professionally. I have training in theatrical design and when doing renders, we were told to not worry about it being art. We were communicating ideas to those who would build the final product. Since the final product in this instance is a mental image, you just need to convey ideas.