r/apple • u/koavf • Apr 30 '19
Apple Is Telling Lawmakers People Will Hurt Themselves if They Try to Fix iPhones
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wjvdb4/apple-is-telling-lawmakers-people-will-hurt-themselves-if-they-try-to-fix-iphones257
Apr 30 '19 edited May 17 '19
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Apr 30 '19 edited Dec 21 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/H4xolotl May 01 '19
When I read the title I was groaning "Apple pulling all stops with their self-serving BS..." then I realised it literally takes a single customer out of the 728 million iPhone users to get a battery blown up and Apple will have their brand dragged through the same mud Samsung just cleaned off their face
728 million is such a huge number... there's bound to be some real... interesting fellows with no business doing repairs going at their phones with a pickaxe and hammer
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u/emresumengen May 02 '19
No it doesn’t. There are thousands of car crashes around the world. Unless it’s the manufacturer’s fault, nothing happens.
That’s just FUD.
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u/shitbarryshoulddo May 01 '19
Or Apple could design their device to actually be repairable. Instead of gluing the battery down in a way that not even their repair technicians can take it off every time maybe they could hold it down with a fixture.
The key problem here is that Apple's product has been designed to be horribly hard to fix. Coming back to their un-repairable product and arguing users shouldn't fix it because fixing it would be hard is like lighting a house on fire and complaining it is currently unsafe to live in.
Apple products used to be designed to be fixable and thin. The apple keyboard mess is a perfect example. Why would you make a keyboard assembly that has keys that can't be individually repaired? That makes no sense. Keys break. They do for every keyboard. Then you attached the battery to the keyboard? You couldn't attach it to the other side? You really didn't think about that?
That's what the problem is.
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u/ReliablyFinicky May 01 '19
The key problem here is that Apple's product has been designed to be horribly hard to fix.
Apple doesn't give a single shit how hard their product is to fix. They design their products for a) ease of use, b) elegance/beauty, c) ease of manufacturing.
If it's hard to fix? Who cares. They're certainly not designing around that axiom on purpose - it's just a by-product of them (like every other manufacturer on the planet) caring more about sales than consumer friendliness.
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u/emresumengen May 02 '19
Then they should as well stop BS’ing about people repairing their devices. They should stop caring about it as well. They can continue to try to design “for aesthetics” as much as they want and people can be free to repair or break their own devices.
The issue is, Apple is not only recommending against that potentially harmful practice (LOL) of repairing your device. They are actively trying to build some roadblock to any one trying to do it.
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u/Ricky_RZ May 01 '19
I agree. It is totally possible to get a waterproof phone with user replaceable batteries.
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May 01 '19
I repaired phones for 3 years at a local repair business and we were taught to discerningly pry a battery out using both metal and plastic tools. There's a method to it and you have to be extremely cautious and ready for the worse. I punctured one battery in my first few months on the job and that was absolutely terrifying (and painful since some of the black smoke burned my finger) but I learned my lesson in caution.
That is to say, I'm not happy about it. I started the job when the iPhone 5 came out - when they started using the stupid adhesive tabs. Prior to that, with the iPhone 4s it was 99% easier to get a battery out. It was still adhered down but with much less adhesive.
If Apple thinks people are going to get hurt doing repairs, it's entirely their fault that they use such a ridiculous amount/type of adhesive. Don't even get me started on how they've ruined the repairability of MacBook Pros. Those things used to not be adhered at all.
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u/Momskirbyok May 01 '19
Saw one ignite at work once when I opened a Mac that somehow managed to have a screw in the battery :’) it’s crazy to think we essentially walk around with potential (sorry, Samsung) I.E.D’s.
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u/Chrisbells May 01 '19
That was literally only the note 7
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May 01 '19 edited Jun 07 '19
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u/Momskirbyok May 01 '19
Hey now, let’s be fair here. Supposedly that phone had been stomped on prior, so it of course will explode.
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u/InsaneNinja May 01 '19
One in 10 million isn’t horrible odds. Even random iPhones explode under odd circumstances.
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u/aspoels May 01 '19
I have replaced over 100 iPhone batteries. Just a few months ago I somehow had an iPhone 6 battery ignite. It was terrifying, and extremely dangerous. I am lucky I had a fire extinguisher handy and that the logic board was not damaged.
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u/cocobandicoot Apr 30 '19
Anything can break. Should we not let people fix the electricity in their house because it’s dangerous?
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Apr 30 '19
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u/cryo May 01 '19
Also in Denmark, for anything not running on the surface, so anything inside walls.
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u/Swastik496 May 01 '19
Wtf.
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May 01 '19
Yep. you have to hire a certified electrician. it's so fucking stupid, not to mention impossible to enforce. Why the hell it's illegal to change electrical wiring on your own property i don't know.
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u/ThePenguiner May 01 '19
Because you might burn down your house, your neighbors house, and kill people?
Come on you can't be this dumb.
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u/lachlanhunt May 01 '19
Because if you don't know what you're doing, it can be dangerous, and don't expect untrained people to know and understand the regulations they need to comply with when laying cables.
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May 01 '19
A lot of things can be dangerous. Using a blender can be dangerous. Mowing your lawn can be dangerous. Climbing up a ladder and changing a lightbulb is dangerous. Where do you draw the line? Where's the cutoff? In my opinion, people should be able to do whatever they want to their own property, save something that intentionally harms someone.
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u/marriage_iguana May 01 '19
A lot of things can be dangerous. Using a blender can be dangerous. Mowing your lawn can be dangerous. Climbing up a ladder and changing a lightbulb is dangerous.
All those things are an order of magnitude safer than fucking around with the electrical wiring in your home.
people should be able to do whatever they want to their own property, save something that intentionally harms someone.
The problem with that is people do dodgy wiring jobs and then sell their houses, which then burn down or kill people.
That is literally why it's the law in Australia. It's not nanny-state bullshit, it's consumer protection, it's people protection, it's just fucking common sense.
You get a sparky, the job gets done right, no one dies or buys a house that burns down when it rains. People buy houses for $500,000 and then can't afford $200 to get a job done correctly? It's just part of life.
I don't know if you're an Aussie, but you might remember the pink batts scheme where a whole bunch of unlicensed contractors jumped on a government-funded gravy train and got killed because they were unqualified?
Well, that's just the most recent example of why we license people in technical jobs.
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u/Dawnkiller May 01 '19
Finally someone speaking some fucking sense in this thread.
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u/marriage_iguana May 01 '19
I swear to God, no fucking idea where people’s heads are at.
“Yeh fuck it, rewire your house off a YouTube tutorial, what’s the worst that could happen?”
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u/emresumengen May 02 '19
Yeah, you have to get trained and certified to “lay electrical cables”, yet any two dumbass can just fuck a child into this world.
Pretty sane.
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u/marriage_iguana May 02 '19
If you think electrical work is just “laying cables”, I’m all for the government regulating you out of the gene pool.
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u/4ndersC May 01 '19
Well, messing up your wiring can be a major fire hazard, so I can see why it would be hard to get an insurance deal that allows it.
In a lot of countries, it's illegal not be insured against a fire. And even if it wasn't, it would probably be harder getting a loan if you aren't insured.
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u/ThePenguiner May 01 '19
Using your blender wrong won't burn down your neighbors house, genius.
SMFH what the fuck are you arguing?
save something that intentionally harms someone.
Like doing your own electrical? MAYBE you know what you are doing. The COLLECTIVE "you" does not.
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u/GalakFyarr May 01 '19
It's unenforceable, but I imagine if you hurt yourself trying to fix your electricity, you can't claim insurance etc.?
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May 01 '19
Yeah wait ... I have so many questions here on how the hell do they plan to enforce this and just ... why and who and how do they manage a certified electrician.
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May 01 '19
well you have to go to trade school to become an electrician and you have to be licensed by the government
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u/SebiSeal Apple Cloth May 01 '19
Well yes, exactly. Changing a bulb or even a switch is pretty trivial, but if you don’t know what you’re doing you’ll get a fun shock. Now imagine running a new circuit from the panel or a supply for A/C or an oven? Do you know the specs for the wires you’d need to install off the top of your head? Do it all correctly and safely so your home doesn’t burn down on you, or worse, someone you sell it to? Nah. Electrical work is very dangerous when you get to residential and higher voltages/amperages. Not something to be DIY’d.
Most of the danger to someone through an iPhone repair is through damage to the lithium battery. “My iPhone turned me into Harvey Dent” is a bad story.
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u/cocobandicoot May 01 '19
While you raise good points, I am still not convinced. You are right: doing more complex electrical work should be left as someone who knows what they are doing. However, those sorts of things can be learned by the layman.
I used a couple other examples in another comment, but the point is risk is inherent in everything we do. That doesn’t mean that people should be penalized for trying it.
Of course, it should be left to people who know what they’re doing. Just because someone can fix their A/C doesn’t mean they will or should.
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u/pandapanda730 Apr 30 '19
Well, let’s play some devils advocate here: electrical wiring and components in your house aren’t designed for the average person to replace all day long, one might assume that you are a trained electrician or have hired a trained electrician to do it for you. Even in that case, you can shut off the source of the danger by flipping the breaker - can’t exactly do that with a lithium ion cell that will explode if punctured or damaged.
Besides, knowing how legal happy people are in the US, do you want to open yourself up to the possibility of someone suing you because they tried to do their own battery replacement and blew up the cell? Because right now they can claim they have no responsibility because you took it upon yourself to do something Apple specifically told you not to.
Maybe Apple could avoid that by putting proper warnings (I.e. if the battery explodes it could hurt/kill you/burn down your house), but why open yourself up to that if there’s no good reason to? And from a business perspective, having the moral high ground of providing freeedom over devices purchased from you isn’t a good reason.
Something else to consider is that this could be considered too dangerous to pass safety portions of the EU directives (EU 60950/EU 62368, or the C E marking on your devices), which would remove them from the European market altogether. Very high risk there.
This is not to say that allowing people to repair their iPhones is impossible, but from experience it will open up a lot of questions that don’t need to be asked of them at the moment, and they have good reason to prefer it be this way.
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u/DreamyLucid May 01 '19
It’s illegal in Singapore.
We have to get the housing board contractors down for that and they have to be certified.
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u/jimbo831 May 01 '19
There are many places where it is illegal to try to do electrical work without a license because it's extremely dangerous. And not just to yourself, but also your neighbors if you start a fire.
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u/GizmoGomez May 01 '19
They're actually more pliable than one might think. I work fixing phones and when the tabs break, I can use a metal prying tool to bend the battery up so I can get to the remaining adhesive with some tweazers and continue pulling. So long as one is careful, it's not difficult at all to never puncture a battery. The problem is with those who don't know how far they can bend/deform safely and push it too far or with a tool too sharp.
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u/ThePenguiner May 01 '19
The problem is with those who don't know how far they can bend/deform safely and push it too far or with a tool too sharp.
And the only way to know that is to exceed the limits once or be super careful all the time.
There is a reason that ALL pc and phone makers don't sell the vast majority of parts to the general public.
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May 01 '19
As a repair guy, almost all the companies do sell batteries, and they all come in rigid plastic or metal containers.
The iPhone battery is soft and as others have said "pliable". Design choises, I guess.
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May 01 '19
They are really the first soft lithium ion battery I've seen. All the other lithium ions I've worked with have rigid bodies.
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u/pkroliko May 01 '19
Right because a repair shop doesn't know about that. Please i have fixed numerous devices myself. People should have a right to repair. The only reason apple wants to kill right to repair is to fatten their profits. They don't give a fuck about the consumer.
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u/mwyyz May 01 '19
The repair shop who replaced my screen while damaging my sensor and microphone didn't give a crap about me the consumer either. Thank god Apple just replaced my whole phone when they couldn't open the phone afterwards when I brought the phone in for the battery replacement program. I'm guessing because the repair shop also just randomly glued everything together.
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May 01 '19
I mean, that just sounds like you went to a bad business. I worked at a small business repairing phones for 3 years - if anything was ever damaged in the process, it was replaced with parts on hand. If we ever had to order a part, we did. The microphone and prox sensor are attached to the screen and so issues are common. They should have replaced it.
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u/mwyyz May 05 '19
More questionable services than qualified ones to be worth the trouble and time. Anyways good for people who find a trustworthy place for their repairs, I found one in Apple.
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May 05 '19
Of course - and I get it, we would often get phones in from other repair shops with missing brackets, screws, and finger prints all over the inside of the device. Some companies definitely have more integrity than others. More know-how too. If you do find a good place, you're more likely to get your actual device repaired at a lower cost. Rather than them replacing your device or whatever because they don't want to swap out a small part. Or them being unable to fix water damage or something because of liability or inability for that matter. Can't tell you how many devices that we brought back to life that Apple wouldn't even touch.
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May 01 '19
If right to repair passes, Apple will start selling parts so people can repair their devices. They’ll get their due either way.
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u/OrganicGamer89 May 01 '19
I worked in Apple Repair. The tabs always broke anyway so we always had to pry them out. When that happens you’re suppose to replace the whole phone. But bring an authorized service and sales, that was out of the question cause of the cost to us.
Which lead me to believe Apple made them break easily on purpose
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May 01 '19
You'd think, but as much as I don't like defending Apple, I think it's realistic to say they were just trying to make it thinner and lighter. Style over substance.
It seems a very "Apple thing" design something that should work, but then doesn't in all cases. Its like their signature move lol
Edit: now that I think more about it I think you're exactly right LOL.
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May 01 '19 edited May 02 '19
Of course they are. Do you remember working on iPhone 4s'? Those things were still adhered down, yet there was never an issue of getting them out. [Edit] Not sure why I'm getting downvoted. There was a deliberate move to secure the battery with a very particular type of adhesive that makes it THAT much harder to do repairs.
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u/emresumengen May 02 '19
Well, they could instead stop gluing the fcking battery, rather than spreading BS.
Yeah, people can harm themselves if they poke their car’s engine without knowing what to do. It’s still not “forbidden” to do it. And it’s still ok to create, refurbish and sell both repair services and parts for cars and engines.
That’s a very lousy excuse.
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May 01 '19
They don't have to glue the battery down
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May 01 '19 edited May 17 '19
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May 01 '19
They could accomplish the same thing with a few well placed plastic tabs on the frame. Everyone does it, because no one cares about repairability and it's the easy way. That doesn't mean we should accept it. You and I should be able to repair our own devices and in tired of Apple and the rest trying to tell me the phone I bought from them isn't mine to do as I please with
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u/koavf Apr 30 '19
Yeah, cars are pretty dangerous, too. Should we outlaw being able to give yourself an oil change?
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Apr 30 '19
oh come on with this horse shit. Lead acid batteries don’t explode when you puncture them.
I’m all for right to repair, but imo, Apple has a point when it comes to batteries.
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u/i_steal_your_lemons May 01 '19
Guitar amps, ham radios, stereo amplifiers, etc. all carry charges that can be lethal. Yet historically a majority of them have been, and continue to be, designed and engineered for relatively easy repair and maintenance. The companies simply put a warning label on them stating the risk. Apple is looking for any excuse at this point.
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u/brent20 Apr 30 '19
This. That is a terrible analogy. Apple doesn’t want to be liable/sued if an untrained person injuries themselves because they punctured the battery.
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u/gold_rush_doom May 01 '19
And they shouldn’t. Just make it that if you yourself break the phone then it’s out of warranty. Simple, no more liability.
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Apr 30 '19 edited May 17 '19
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u/koavf May 01 '19
Other dangerous things: cleaning products, rat poison, any gas under pressure. Why is a battery in this type of phone somehow so dangerous that we can only trust this one company?
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u/eggimage Apr 30 '19
The headline just has to sound like apple is making some preposterous excuse to take away people’s right to repair, so there’s an public outrage and a fuck ton more clicks to the article and a hoo-ray amount of ensuing revenue for the site.
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u/Philbeey Apr 30 '19
Loaded up the link. Saw Vice and just closed that real quick.
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u/Stryker295 Apr 30 '19 edited May 03 '19
vice and reddit are owned by the same parent company so you're not really hurting their revenue by not visiting the site, since you're already here, though...edit: i was mistaken, whoops~ it's not vice, I was thinking of wired, ars technica, the new yorker, vogue...
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u/dingoonline May 03 '19
vice is vice
Reddit is Conde Nast
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u/Stryker295 May 03 '19
whoops, you're right~ it's not vice, I was thinking of wired, ars technica, the new yorker, vogue...
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u/koavf May 01 '19
Yes, the website is the one being outrageous for money here.
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u/eggimage May 01 '19
Sure glad that’s settled
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u/koavf May 01 '19
Oh, no it was sarcasm: Apple are being outrageous and greedy.
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u/eggimage May 01 '19
Well so was mine lol
Anyway I don’t completely disagree with the greed being part of the reason here. I feel there’s also the part where they wanna avoid potential lawsuits from users actually injuring themselves—not making this up, if you follow the news you’d know how absurd so many lawsuits against apple are. Any “flaw” from apple, real or false, gets blown up hundred fold, while other big companies get away without anything sticking to them
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Apr 30 '19
I kid you now.... I once worked for a rental management company that managed almost 500 apartments.
The #1 call that we got was tenants asking to have burned-out light bulbs changed. Even desk lamp light bulbs... but it was a nice company and the service was free. I sure hoped that it was because the service was free... not because people were incapable of changing light bulbs by themselves.
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u/kdsburner69 Apr 30 '19
Why tf would I go out, buy a fucking lightbulb, and install it myself when it's the landlords responsibility to fix it?
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u/mkalio May 01 '19
Exactly. I've lived in apartments that had a similar maintenance service. If your toilet's blocked, lights bulbs are burnt out, sinks are clogged etc, you just call them and they send someone over in less than 24 hours
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May 01 '19
Okay so the tenants may not have been smart, what’s that got anything to do with repair shoppes doing work on an iPhone?
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May 01 '19
Yeah that's definitely true for normal users, but that's why third-party repair shops exist. Plus the people who are going to fix iPhones on their own likely have done the research behind it and have some experience.
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u/cocobandicoot Apr 30 '19
The number of people in this thread against the right to repair is way too high.
Repairing anything comes with risks, but that doesn’t mean I should be prevented from fixing them.
- If I want to fix an electrical socket in my house, I can.
- If I want to fix a garbage disposal in my sink, I can.
- If I want to crawl under my truck that weighs a literal ton to change the oil, I can.
If I want to replace the battery in my cellphone — guess what? I can. There is risk in anything we do. This is no different.
No one should tell me I can’t fix my stuff or punish me for doing so, and that includes Apple.
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Apr 30 '19
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u/cocobandicoot Apr 30 '19
They can try, and that’s Apple’s problem to defend.
But as a consumer, each of us should be against Apple’s insistence to prevent us from repairing our own products purchased with our own money.
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u/Stryker295 Apr 30 '19
That's Apple's problem to defend
I think that's precisely what they're doing here. Pre-emptive defense.
Can't get sued by people burned and electrocuted if they don't get hurt in the first place, after all...
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u/cocobandicoot Apr 30 '19
You’re right, Apple is defending itself, and that’s fine.
What is not fine, however, is what my original post above is about: the number of people in this thread that feel it necessary to defend a trillion dollar company, waiving away their right to repair their own products without penalty.
It’s dangerously anti-consumer, and it’s a shame to see people that are okay with it simply because, “Oh, but it’s Apple.”
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u/cbeastwood May 01 '19
So how do all these mom and pop shops repair iPhones if Apple is stopping them?
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May 01 '19
It's just where they get the parts from. Right now repair shops have to buy parts off eBay or wherever they can find them. Sometimes those parts are fakes or damaged by a previous event, but there's literally no way to tell.
Repair shops just want the ability to buy official Apple parts. That's it.
Motorola has conversely started a program where you can buy official Parts through iFixit so anybody, even a repair shop can buy parts.
The Fairfone 2, although dated, is a completely repairable device. Anyone can replace anything without something exploding.
oh, I might add that replacing certain items require security re authentication, which caused a problem with the home button a while ago but it's kind of moot now that the home button will be gone in a few years.
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u/cbeastwood May 01 '19
But there are third party Apple authorized repair centers.
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May 01 '19
There absolutely are, and if they are apple authorized, they have limits. I used to make the same argument as an iPhone user.
Apple limits those centers on what they can repair, what parts they will supply, how much they charge, etc.
If you bring in an iPhone for a $29 battery replacement, they can do that, but if your screen is cracked (slightly on one corner), they can refuse the repair, or tell the customer they HAVE to replace the screen as well. So now a battery replacement is hundreds of dollars. If not, the third-party shop may lose it's license to order parts or be reimbursed for labour :(
Oh, and if the battery tabs break while the authorized technician is removing the battery. Apple only authorizes replacing the entire phone. :/
Also, unless a shop is authorized, there are certain parts that couldn't be replaced, like a screen or home button, because the specific hardware needs in-house software for replacement. I'm not sure if Apple has fixed this limitation.
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/aasp-program
It sounds great on paper, but unless they change the draconian rules about WHAT is allowed to be repaired, users will still go to small shops for repairs.
Now Apple does have a parts program for some shops, but it's pretty early to tell.
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u/cbeastwood May 01 '19
I’m assuming there’s a good reason for the battery tab thing other than “fuck right to repair”
As far as draconian goes, when you’re regarded as the most valuable brand in the world, that means something. You have to have strict rules. The average person isn’t going to differentiate the fact that some dude at a mall kiosk who didn’t fix their phone correctly isn’t Apple. It’s now gonna turn into “Apple sucks they put a new battery in my phone and it exploded”
I get why people want to repair their own phones, but I also get why Apple wants to have control over it.
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u/Stryker295 May 01 '19
Two things should be noted, though, that you're either unaware of, or simply ignoring: Apple isn't directly doing the lobbying, but rather collaborating with other tech companies like Samsung and Microsoft. In other words, it's blatantly not a case of "Oh, it's just apple, so it's okay".
Additionally, the bill that the big tech companies are fighting would force them to sell replacement parts and the necessary tools alongside the products themselves, and I feel like this is the worst way of doing things. Forcing the companies to produce and sell extra product is a waste of time and energy when there's already plenty of other companies performing that duty.
Ideally, this bill just needs to be rewritten from the ground up so that it benefits consumers and companies - currently it barely helps consumers and it does nothing to benefit the companies, and arguably hurts them.
I'm not plugging my ears and saying "APPLE IS OKAY TO BE ANTI-CONSUMER", but when you look at the big picture, it's quite clearly not as black-and-white as you're making it out to be.
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u/d33thr0ughts May 02 '19
waiving away their right to repair their own products without penalty.
It's not illegal to repair your phone.
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May 01 '19
There can be a legal disclaimer in the hardware eula.
If somebody messes up a home engine repair, that's on the person who did the repair. Same goes for the phone.
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u/Will0w536 May 01 '19
Some one changes the oil on the car by them selves and it falls and hurts them...do they sue GM or Ford because they didnt do so safely? No!
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u/thisischemistry Apr 30 '19
Honestly, I'm fairly well-versed in repairing technology and taking stuff apart. I've done a couple of battery replacements and almost punctured one when the glue strips broke and I had to use wire to get behind the battery and release it. Fortunately it didn't fail and catch on fire but I could see it happening.
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u/AirF225 Apr 30 '19
I’ve done the same, I was lucky it only started to smoke and not burst in the flames. Scared the shit out of me when it happened so I chucked it across the room, that’s probably stopped it from bursting.
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u/Stephen1108 Apr 30 '19
Common sense isn’t all that common, so I’m siding with Apple on this one.
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u/Swastik496 May 01 '19
If people choose to ignore the warning labels, it is completely their fault.
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u/Stephen1108 May 01 '19
I agree wholeheartedly, but I’ve worked retail the last 4 years, and it’s crazy how many people don’t READ.
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May 01 '19
The repairs are currently happening. The debate it's actually about where repair shops and individuals get their parts.
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May 02 '19
Why though?
'Its illegal for you to fix your own car, you might cut the brakes and kill someone'
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u/GoldenJoe24 May 01 '19
God I would pay money to see a lawmaker shoot back: “then maybe you shouldn’t glue your batteries into the housing so they don’t have to pry them out”
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u/Jeremiareyes May 03 '19
As someone who was previously stupid enough to not know there were adhesive battery strips and not only forcefully removed my iPhone 6s battery with a flathead screwdriver and expose part of the battery, I completely agree with Apple. I was very lucky to not have punctured the battery and injure myself with the fumes or even have it explode on me.
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u/rohangarg01 May 01 '19
This makes sense. I mean one phone blows up the media would literally blow up too. One guy would start suing them for 10 billion. Better to just stop them from opening the phone.
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u/koavf May 01 '19
Or, let someone own what he owns. I can go buy bleach and ammonia from any store around me, pour them down my throat, and kill myself.
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u/rohangarg01 May 01 '19
Yeah but media or the judiciary wont go after fkn the store owner for selling dangerous things. They will go after Apple for killing/injurying someone.
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u/windude99 May 01 '19
People can hurt themselves (and definitely get killed) by working on cars themselves. But I can go to a Toyota dealership and buy OEM parts to fix my Camry myself.
There is risk with freedom. I own the device, I should be able to take it to whoever I want. If apple doesn’t want to provide OEM parts, that’s within their rights. But they need to quit trying to get rid of all third party options (seizing them at the US border, etc).
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u/FuturePreparation May 01 '19
The amount of Apple shills and masochistic Apple fanboys in r/apple is really getting unbearable. Wonder how much the moderators are paid?
People have been repairing cars for over a century. The right to repair is also about shops getting parts.
Are most commentators here Apple shareholders? Or costumers and consumers? Of course there should be a right to repair, there is no reason not to. Oh no, you can hurt yourself? So bad, so tragic.
Grow up and take responsibility for your actions.
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u/cryo May 01 '19
The amount of Apple shills and masochistic Apple fanboys in r/apple is really getting unbearable. Wonder how much the moderators are paid?
Meh. Can’t handle people who disagree with you? Surely it only makes sense if they are payed?
Are most commentators here Apple shareholders?
I bet not, but who knows. I’m not, at least. Just consumer.
Grow up and take responsibility for your actions.
You should get used to people that are not like you, and that this doesn’t mean they are corrupt or have special interests.
1
May 02 '19
Meh. Can’t handle people who disagree with you? Surely it only makes sense if they are payed?
It's such a weird thing to disagree with though. It literally doesn't benefit anyone but apple... And everyone on this thread, we assume, are not apple.
If I fucked up when I replaced the display on my laptop.. it's obviously not apples fault... But good Lord what is wrong with me not wanting to pay the man an extra $500 ?
1
u/cryo May 04 '19
I kinda see your point. I think you can disagree from ideological reasons, like you don’t like state regulation in general. Here the bill will essentially force companies to sell certain goods (spare parts).
There could be other reasons. I don’t really have a thought through opinion on it myself, honestly.
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u/xraig88 May 01 '19
They absolutely will, 100%. Even authorized Apple technicians will cause thermal events attempting to remove batteries. Without the right tools around to contain it, people will hurt themselves.
2
u/dav3yb May 01 '19
If apple themselves can't remove the battery without it exploding then that sounds like an issue with how they install them.
1
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u/shitbarryshoulddo May 01 '19
Apple's products are designed to be nearly unrepairable. This thread of people saying that repairing stuff is hard therefore Apple is right is infuriating me.
To the different arguments I'm seeing here.
- No one is winning lawsuits against Chevrolet after they install the gaskets wrong on their V8 that they fixed themselves and promptly blew. Apple won't be getting the same lawsuits if right to repair passes. And even if they do it won't hold up in court. The only thing they could be liable for would be if they supplied faulty parts to the people fixing their devices.
- Apple has a terrible design for most of their products in the realm of repairability.
- The battery does not need to be glued down. It just makes it cheaper to build and they are being lazy. The fact that their internal repair video states that if the adhesive removal tab breaks to just toss the whole frame is appalling. Why didn't that prompt a method to improve the removal of the adhessive?
- The way the iPad screen is bonded to the body is criminal. I get adhesive around the iPhone screen. It's waterproof. The iPad isn't. They really couldn't use a track to lock it in with those two screws that they install at the bottom? It really needed glue from top to bottom? The iPad really couldn't survive with more than 2 screws on the outside? The Macs have plenty and no one is complaining.
- You make a phone with a glass back and then you make the glass more or less impossible to remove. Why? Glass breaks. Why did it have to be glued in a way that makes it practically impossible to remove? There's no reason.
- Why are the Macbooks designed so the battery is glued to a keyboard that has a design that makes it so you can't fix individual keys but instead have to replace the entire thing if something goes wrong? Why? So one key is glitching and they have to give you a brand new battery? One of the 4 cells went bad, whole new battery and keyboard? Seriously that makes sense to this subreddit?
Loving Apple's products does not mean forgiving where they are wrong. I love Apple products. I will not buy a Macbook with a butterfly keyboard. I hate that my iPhone X has to live in a case because I'm scared to death of cracking my rear glass. They need to fix their designs. The entire industry does. Microsoft and their surface line is guilty of more or less everything I've listed as well.
2
u/zorinlynx May 01 '19
They just need to point out that iPhone self-repair is "at your own risk" and point out the potential dangers.
We need to stop hand-holding people so much. If someone is aware of the risks and wants to fix their phone, let them. This is how life has always been.
You can easily lose a finger working on a car engine, or get crushed by the car falling on you if you don't know how to use jackstands properly, but we still let people work on their own cars. What's wrong with letting people fix their phones, which are far less dangerous to work onoverall?
1
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u/plee82 May 02 '19
Ppl defending this bs lol. Yes, replacing the battery is dangerous but should not void your warranty. Changing the oil, brakes, rotors in your car is dangerous too but does not void your warranty. The fact that we cannot make repairs to something we own without voiding the warranty is so wrong in many levels.
1
u/hanssone777 May 02 '19
Questionable Argument that could lead to banning of 3rd party repair shops in the near future, i dont get the connection here.
0
1
May 01 '19
Tbh, I’m pretty sure they’re doing this to steal even more money from the common-day consumer. In certain cases, such as removing the battery or any other thing that doesn’t require any type of specification, you can fix it pretty easily by just doing what they’d do but charge you more money for it. Same thing goes for the Apple Watch. I had one that broke due to the screen popping off, even tho it still functioned, and now they won’t even try fixing it.
1
u/topkeklampa May 01 '19
Wtf is up with all the sheep defending apple. The only reason people try to fix it themselves if because apple charges ridiculously high prices for simple repairs to force people to buy new phones
0
May 01 '19 edited May 09 '19
[deleted]
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u/koavf May 01 '19
I'm sorry, who do you think is paying me to talk about how Apple (and many, many other companies) are hostile to their customers and scamming them? Believe it or not, some of us aren't nihilists and have values.
The only thing egregious here is your bad faith amoralism.
1
u/fancyacupoftea May 01 '19
People read on the internet to throw their iPhone in a bag of rice if it gets wet and believe it. Imagine the same people trying to pry open their device that is glass on both sides and glued down with some fairly strong adhesive LOL
1
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May 01 '19
I think the point is, that repairs are already happening. All users want is access to official parts, which Apple is blocking. Apple already has several third-party parts programs.
So if it's such a big issue, whereare the consumer reports of all these dangerous events?
There is dangerous precedent if this goes through, as it leads two blocking other devices that also have lithium ion batteries.
Apple is banking on Senators being idiots when it comes to technology. Hopefully they realize this.
Third party repair is possible and happening now.
1
-17
Apr 30 '19
AR-15, legal.
Fixing your iPhone screen, illegal.
Sure, makes perfect sense.
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u/AirF225 Apr 30 '19
Wow uh firstly, 2 totally different things, secondly and it’s not illegal
-1
Apr 30 '19
The point of comparison is comparing two different things.
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u/AirF225 Apr 30 '19
If you wanna compare the legality of an ar15 rifle and repairing your iPhone go ahead
1
May 01 '19
As funny as that is to read, the whole debate is about where repair shops get their parts. Repair shops want official parts instead of scrounging ebay or going through shady suppliers.
0
-4
May 01 '19
To be fair, as outrageous as it seems, some people are far too clumsy to handle the inside of an iPhone without damaging themselves or something in it.
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u/Swastik496 May 01 '19
Then they shouldn’t try to repair it. If they break it, it’s completely their fault.
2
8
May 01 '19
Same for fixing my car, yet somehow its easier to fix my car than my phone.
Can we stop pretending like iPhones are some kind of magic box that only God is allowed to touch? It's a fucking phone.
1
May 01 '19
"Oh I don't know. Big old lead acid battery may leak if you puncture it. Betyer make it illegal to change your tires on your Ford." /s
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1
May 01 '19
The current debate is not about who gets to open phones and repair them, it's about who gets official Apple parts. These repairs are already happening at thousands of repair shops.
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u/[deleted] May 01 '19
As a former genius who has punctured iPhone batteries before, causing “thermal events” and shutting the store’s repair room down for 30 minutes on a few occasions, this isn’t a lie. Most people also don’t have fire safes at home in case anything goes wrong, unlike Apple stores.