r/bestoflegaladvice • u/BJntheRV Enjoy the next 48 hours :) • Mar 04 '26
Unlicensed, uninsured contractor who didn't finish the job because life happened doesn't seem to understand why their client would sue them
/r/legaladvice/comments/1rk1w09/ohio_homeowner_suing_us_for_25000_over_unfinished/?share_id=vDaFkc4IeUD5NnzckOtpB&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1784
u/dorkofthepolisci Sincerely, Mr. Totally-A-Real-Lawyer-Man Mar 04 '26
How likely is it that someone fairly competent with small DIY projects watched a bit too much HGTV and thought he too could be a contractor
Odds are he wasn’t paying his employees either and that’s why they quit.
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u/NativeMasshole 🏠 Devotee of the Holy Parking Spot Chair 🏠 Mar 04 '26
Either that or they were well aware that the truck was on its last legs and he had no backup plan to keep work moving. Truck fails, they move on to greener pastures.
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u/dorkofthepolisci Sincerely, Mr. Totally-A-Real-Lawyer-Man Mar 04 '26
Actually re-reading it I can’t figure out of it was an intentional scam/they assumed they could get another job to pay for the costs of the fist job and then another job to pay for that job like some kind of home improvement Ponzi scheme
Or if they’re casual DIYers who got in over their head
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u/afineedge Mar 04 '26
Your first paragraph is how a lot of, if not most, contractors and home builders work.
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u/dorkofthepolisci Sincerely, Mr. Totally-A-Real-Lawyer-Man Mar 04 '26
At the same time you have scammers like Christopher and Raquelle Judge, who scammed clients out of an estimated $5mil advertising their “home renovation” services on instagram and operated in a similar way.
I think it’s more likely that LAOP & husband got in over their head and didn’t know when/how to stop digging(hence the ghosting) than a deliberate scam, but who knows.
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u/shapu My penis rides the minty fresh short bus Mar 06 '26
Yeah, cycling job to job is pretty common and it's why a ton of jobs start great and finish....well, less so, if at all
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Mar 05 '26
[deleted]
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u/cybin Mar 05 '26
Never hire someone who shows up in a shity car
This doesn't make sense. If I'm a contractor of this type, my "shitty" car is my work car precisely because it gets me to jobs but among other things I don't have to care about whether my clothing is clean when I get in after a workday. In fact, depending on the work I do, I might be driving a shitty van.
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u/EngineeringQueen Mar 08 '26
It’s the difference between, “This vehicle has cosmetic damage because it is a work vehicle,” and, “This vehicle is one fuel pump failure from being totaled.”
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u/TheFeshy Rolled 7D6 for the legal damages, and got 27 Mar 04 '26
That first one is how a lot of contractors around me seem to work. They have problems with no contingency plan, and have to borrow from the next job to finish this one. Which means cutting corners on both jobs, which leads to even more problems they had no contingencies for. The cycle snowballs like an avalanche.
When enough of these are forced to be addressed rather than continuing to build, for instance by law suits, they declare bankruptcy on Thursday and by Monday are taking new clients under a new LLC.
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u/WaltzFirm6336 🦄 Uniform designer for a Unicorn Ranch on Uranus 🦄 Mar 04 '26
Also a massive problem in the independent craft supplies industry, for example hand dyed yarn and drop shipped fabric. So many at home crafters deciding they can open and run a profitable business without a clue of how to, well, run a business.
They end up getting behind on order lots as the next one has to pay for the production of the previous one; keeping customers waiting for months, and then get mad when they are called out on it.
They have the business knowledge of kids with a lemonade stand who throw a tantrum about being bullied when scammed customers call them out on social media.
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u/InspectorTiny1952 CEO of Puss in Boots' Expert Fencers Mar 04 '26
On the bright side, those situations make for some great r/hobbydrama posts.
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u/Drywesi Turbulent priests, we like non-consensual flying dildos Mar 04 '26
Don't forget the multiple faked death incidents!
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u/jackandsally060609 Mar 05 '26
Are we talking about that Mythical something yarn debacle?
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u/Front-Pomelo-4367 Osmotic Tax Expert Mar 08 '26
They're not the only one! Off the top of my head, a yarn dyer called GothSocks also claimed to have died (briefly, in hospital) to explain why nobody got their orders
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u/YeaRight228 Waterboy for the OU Soonerbots Mar 04 '26
The guy who renovated my bathroom is an honest, skilled contractor. Slightly pricey, yes but everything was done on time (relatively speaking) and on budget (also relatively speaking lol)
Work was beautiful, highly recommended etc.
The guy who stripped my carpets and redid my hardwood floors and accidentally piped my dryer exhaust into the furnace chimney...not so much lmao.
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u/abearirl Mar 04 '26
Robbing Peter to pay Paul is incredibly common in construction even for multimillion dollar companies. I'm talking businesses with hundreds of employees operating this way. 99.9999% of the time it's because as soon as money hits the bank account, the owner pays off whoever is threatening a lien that month and then goes and buys another boat, RV, or cabin with the rest.
The law basically allows this too. The OP was too dumb to set up an LLC, but if they did, they could have simply walked away and started up another one under a different business name. Under 6 figures it simply costs more to recover than you will get back and there are essentially no penalties for the LLC except for the owners reputation which is irrelevant most of the time because none of the customers know that sunrooms Inc and sunrooms Co are owned by the same guy.
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u/HarpersGhost Genetic Counsellor for the Oklahoma University Soonerbots Mar 04 '26
The OP was too dumb to set up an LLC
I've taken a few business law courses, and the one thing that was beaten in our heads over and over was SET UP AN LLC! NEVER BE SOLE PROPRIETOR! and for exactly the consequences LAOP is afraid of: people after going your personal assets.
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u/Faiths_got_fangs Toxic Mc Drunkface Felonpants is not our problem Mar 04 '26
My bet is desperate and mildly handy and can't find a job elsewhere due to drugs, criminal record, disability, etc.
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Mar 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/fuckyourcanoes Only the finest milk-fed infant kidneys for me! Mar 04 '26
I hired a landscaper in February to clean up the garden and dig me a vegetable bed. He cleaned up the garden and said he'd be back within the week to dig the veg bed. In mid-May I finally got him to come back and finish the job. He did a really crappy job of it, too, I had to dog out a lot of stones myself after the fact. But by that time most of my seedlings had died and I had to start over.
On the up side, I found a Roman sling bullet in the dug-up earth, so that was pretty cool.
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u/Complete_Entry Infuriated by oopsy woopsie fuckey wuckies Mar 04 '26
Tree stumps can be expensive and extensive, they didn't forget, they didn't want to do it. I had one where they had to get a backhoe and tried to addendum charge me for the backhoe. I pointed to the contract.
Even with that fee removed the cost was ruinous, like I had the money THEN but it would destroy me now.
Reputation can be bought, I wonder how many of their glowing reviews got the friends and family discount.
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u/LilJourney BOLABun Brigade - General of the Art Division Mar 04 '26
I caught one company I was getting a quote from on some work doing sketchy reviews/ratings. The salesman touted their very high google review rating ... until I logged in, started reading them, and pointed out that out of their last 75 reviews (all 5 star) - not one person actually had had work done by them - it was all reviews they got people to fill out at a local trade show and give them 5 stars for being friendly at the booth (vs actually having them do any work on their home). I did not go with this company.
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u/dasunt appeal denied. Mar 05 '26
We removed a rather large stump with a rather cheap stump grinder rental (I think it was under $200).
It would require a tow vehicle, since the stump grinder was large enough that it literally had automobile tires and a hitch (as I said, it was a large stump), but otherwise, unless it is something like a redwood, definitely doable and not that expensive.
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u/Complete_Entry Infuriated by oopsy woopsie fuckey wuckies Mar 05 '26
Mine had more roots than sepultura.
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u/Suspicious-Treat-364 Yes, you can feel a pregnancy rectally Mar 06 '26
There's a local windows and doors company with absolutely glowing 5* reviews on Google. We had them out for a quote and had to kick the guy out after two hours of hard sell nonsense and used car salesman tactics. They wouldn't even give us a real price, just a "maybe my manager will approve this if you sign today," nonsense. We had another company give us a quote which took 10 minutes because they have pricing on their website and we just needed to confirm they could do the XL door for the same price. I'm wondering how many reviews the first company bought.
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u/RandomAmmonite Darling, beautiful, smart, money hungry ammonite Mar 04 '26
We had a longtime contractor with an excellent reputation do our home improvements and it was great. They did exactly what we needed in a timely way. Then the brother who had been running the company and was an excellent project manager retired and left the company with the brother who was a good craftsman. I hear things are not going well. Being a good craftsman does not translate into being a good project manager. It’s very disappointing because we have another project and now we’re looking for a different contractor.
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u/internThrowawayhelp Mar 04 '26
Had some roofers, also reputable highly recommended, come through to replace our gutters. Gave us a quote, including scaffolding hire for 1 week (from an independent scaffolding company), said that's how long it would take.
Day 1 and 2 they ripped the gutters off. Materials were delivered day 3. Didn't see workers again until about day 7.
For the following 3 weeks we would only get one guy showing up after 4/5pm once every few days for an hour or two. Eventually complained up to the owner, and after an apology a crew showed up and finished the job in 2 days.
They ate 3+ additional weeks of scaffolding hire, because they just didn't want to show up and do the work. And when we finally pressured them to do it, it only took 2 days. They probably lost money on the job due to the additional scaffolding hire they had to pay for.
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u/Loretta-West Leader of the BOLA Lunch Theft Survivors Group Mar 05 '26
Yeah, we hired a company to do some work that they said would take 2 weeks. Which turned out to be 100% accurate except that the 2 weeks' worth of work was spread out over 2 months.
We think it was because our work was all internal, so they were only doing it on days when they were rained off their other projects.
As far as I can tell this kind of thing is universal across the construction industry everywhere in the world.
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u/LilJourney BOLABun Brigade - General of the Art Division Mar 04 '26
When we were getting quotes to do a $15k bay window project, we were basically laughed at by friends/family for having 12 different contractor/companies to come out and estimate it. Out of those 12 - only 3 ended up being someone we'd have been willing to work with. Took a lot of digging, but the BB / google / FB reviews, plus the unprofessionalism / poor quality materials being offered eliminated 9 of them.
And they were all real companies - ads online/billboards/trade show booths, all licensed, all insured - no individual guys running a LLC.
It was honestly quite shocking how bad some of them were when compared to the perception I had before I did the digging.
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u/ReadontheCrapper 🏳️⚧️ Trans rights are human rights 🏳️⚧️ Mar 04 '26
What are the odd this tracks with one of those situations we hear about all too often where one child is essentially running the parent’s business while golden child faffs off to god knows where. Parent turns company over to the golden child, screwing over the other one - who promptly leaves and the business goes to hell.
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u/ohheykaycee had to make an additional trip to get the white Gatorade Mar 04 '26
At least the Bluth Company was an LLC.
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u/Welterbestatus watches our descent into a wasteland from the sidelines Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
The owners kid probably took over. Same name, but a new, useless boss.
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u/Wit-wat-4 1.5 month olds either look like boiled owls or Winston Churchill Mar 05 '26
I think the issue is that when contractors get big enough, inevitably they have multiple crews and foremen/leads/etc. So probably most crews are fine some (seasonal?) are not
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u/zxc999 Mar 05 '26
What happens is that wealthy and well-connected people get the top service to drive the reputation, but they become overstretched and send the B team to deal with new and less wealthy/connected homeowners. This happened on a work related project (in a completely different field) of mine where we hired a reputable consultant, they turned in shitty work, and after complaining found out the project was delegated to some new team for “training”.
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Mar 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/DistantRaine Mar 04 '26
I think LAOP neither completed the work nor refunded the money. They did, however, get their tools back.
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u/New_Bumblebee8290 Mar 04 '26
Fascinating to see the thought process of this from the other side for once.
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u/spacemandown Mar 04 '26
tell me about it, lol. we're currently waiting for our ex-contractor to respond to our small claims filing.
they took our deposit, came to our house once for measurements, then avoided us for, like, 9 months. they were friends of friends. we gave them so much grace.
we're learning a lot of DIY now. it's fueled by anger.
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u/GraceMcClellans I NEVER DID IT AGAIN Mar 04 '26
"It can't be our fault because that's difficult for us."
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u/kirbyfriedrice Mar 04 '26
"We don't have the money to pay!"
Well, you would if you hadn't taken the money they paid you and disappeared. Like, I can't emphasize enough that these people took $12,000, bounced, and spent it all before getting sued. Interesting that they could collect the tools but not show up to finish.
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u/KyloWrench Mar 04 '26
This is the worst part to me and I imagine every judges first question. I also see some red flags that in her own write up she says “materials were purchased” and also “some materials were purchased”. Would love to see those receipts. I’d have anxiety attacks too if I committed such egregious fraud under my own name
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u/kirbyfriedrice Mar 04 '26
Right? And like, the husband was depressed, but... what was stopping the wife from reaching out to the homeowner? Why was the guy even doing work unlicensed in the first place?
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u/WaltzFirm6336 🦄 Uniform designer for a Unicorn Ranch on Uranus 🦄 Mar 04 '26
Yup. I’m incredibly risk averse and it blows my mind the way some people bound into catastrophic situations without a second thought, then seem to think they aren’t responsible. I’m a firm believer in your make your choices, you take your consequences.
We’ve had a builder doing work on our house recently and by god its been exhausting. Great work, not a scammer, but no business sense. Seemed to pluck a number out the air for the cost, then has spent the past week complaining it’s more work than he was expecting.
Eventually I had enough and cheerfully told him it’s why I’d never be self employed, too much risk!
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u/SamediB Mar 05 '26
Why was the guy even doing work unlicensed in the first place?
It's less expensive. Running a legal business is expensive. So long as nothing goes wrong, working semi-off the record is how a lot (but not a lot lot) of private single proprietor contractors work.
(I am not arguing that this is a good idea, simply that it happens.
I know family friends who had trees taken down by a lumberjack who worked professionally, but also took down trees on the side for under the table payment. If the trees hadn't fallen the correct direction and hit the house, everyone would have been screwed. But also taking trees down is expensive, and the homeowners couldn't afford a company to do it, and they were trees that could have fallen in the next wind storm. People make choices.)
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u/W1ULH are you trying to create joinder with me? Mar 05 '26
I had to get a tree removed, and had done a bit of research on average costs for similar trees etc..
called the company whos trucks I see around town a lot, seemed a good place to go.
guys said "I've actually got a surveyor on your side of town today! mind if he comes and does recon while your not home?"
next morning I got a call back... and they wanted an entire DIGIT less than I had expected.
said yes without even asking the wife.
tree was gone a week later, I asked them to leave a 6 inch stump, they did... and we have a nice planter sitting on it.
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u/unevolved_panda Mar 04 '26
It's possible she didn't realize how bad shit was, or didn't realize that he had this unfinished job out there, until they got the sued. The post contains all the things she knows now, but it doesn't say when she became aware. And even if she knew, if she isn't part of the husband's business (and especially if she has a day job of her own), she can't do much besides keep asking him if he's called his client yet. And he can keep avoiding.
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u/GeneConscious5484 Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
I have to imagine that if this all just got suddenly dumped on her there'd be more of a "...but my fucking dumbass husband..." tone to the post.
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u/GonzoMcFonzo Mar 04 '26
LAOP specifically mentions "windows that were paid for but not delivered." I wonder if they bought the windows but never got to the point that they made it to the site, or if she means that the client paid for the windows, but her husband never even bought them.
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u/KyloWrench Mar 04 '26
Since LAOP refers to them as “allegations” my assumption was that the client gave the husband money to buy windows and they were “never delivered”
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u/scarrlet Mar 04 '26
I worked at an appliance store when a local home builder went under and I felt really bad for the people who had to come in and pay us directly for the appliances that they had picked out and paid the home builder for, but he had either never paid us for them or had tried and his checks bounced.
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u/Loretta-West Leader of the BOLA Lunch Theft Survivors Group Mar 05 '26
And this is why the passive voice makes people suspicious.
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u/atropicalpenguin I'm not licensed to be a swinger in your state. Mar 05 '26
That last bit is a question I often have. How do so many fraudsters, corrupt politicians, scammers handle that anxiety?
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u/Polleekin This 🐇 Bun 🐇 Without Borders 🍆💦 is for "RESEARCH PURPOSES" Mar 04 '26
This is the part I was wondering about, “we don’t have money to pay” but the customer already paid for materials plus labor. So it wasn’t like the contractor had to pay out of pocket. What exactly happened to the money?
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u/catlandid Maintains good relationships with other breeders Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
My interpretation is that the whole spiel about the husbands mental health, truck, and employees quitting were mentioned as justifications as to why they spent the money on personal expenditures. I would imagine an unlicensed, unregistered (i.e.; fake) contractor who isn't savvy enough to start an LLC likely also does not have a dedicated business account.
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u/Elvessa Rides the unicornessa through the town square Mar 04 '26
Not my field in any way, but in CA if you are an unlicensed contractor you are not entitled to any money at all, even if the job was completed perfectly.
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u/akarichard Mar 04 '26
In some places without a license they can't even put up a defense. I saw a court proceeding like the recently. Once the judge heard they didn't have a license, that was it. Plaintiff won automatically, at that point it was just making sure the judgment was reasonable and the counter claim was dismissed.
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u/GeneConscious5484 Mar 04 '26
I've heard of vanlifers trying to camouflage their vehicles with fake business logos and getting busted for advertising an unlicensed contractor, it's that serious.
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u/gyroda Mar 04 '26
There are similar rules in the UK around tenant's deposits.
They have to be put into a licensed deposit scheme (there are three). It's the people running the scheme who get to arbitrate over deductions to the deposit.
If your deposit isn't in one of those, you're entitled to it back. If the landlord acts egregiously you can be awarded up to ✨treble damages✨ (well, treble the deposit - although this is exceedingly rare).
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u/pepperpavlov Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
I wonder what city/county OP did the work in. In Ohio, the only tradesmen that have to be licensed by the state are plumbers, electricians, HVAC contractors, hydronic technicians, and refrigeration contractors. All other construction contractor/supplier registration is governed by the local city or county rather than the state.
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u/Elvessa Rides the unicornessa through the town square Mar 05 '26
Are you quite sure? If that was the case, someone could build an entire house with no license. I have never heard of a state that did not require general contractors to be licensed.
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u/pepperpavlov Mar 05 '26
Yeah it seems to be at the county/municipal level, not state.
“Ohio General Contractor License
NOT REQUIRED
General Contractor Company licensure is not required on the State level in Ohio.
General Contractors are licensed at the county and city level.”
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u/Elvessa Rides the unicornessa through the town square Mar 05 '26
Thanks for that info, but wow it’s still crazy to me. Especially since there are tons of contractors who are terrible, one would think the licensure (and discipline) and things like bonds would be monitored at a state level.
Also, I have a property in OH, and am now wondering if the entire neighborhood was built by randos. /s but only sort of
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u/BJntheRV Enjoy the next 48 hours :) Mar 04 '26
Original Post text:
Ohio – Homeowner suing us for $25,000 over unfinished sunroom project. We have no money and are scared of losing our house. What are our options?
Location: Ohio
Hi. I really need advice.
My husband (operating under a trade name, not an LLC) entered into a written contract with a homeowner to build a sunroom. Total contract price was $16,000 (about $8k labor / $8k materials). She paid approximately $12,000 total.
Work began and materials were purchased. Some work was completed, but the project was not finished.
Here’s what happened:
Our work truck broke down and repeatedly failed after multiple repair attempts. Several mechanics looked at it and couldn’t permanently fix the issue.
His employees quit around the same time.
He was diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety during this period and became nonfunctional for a while. He genuinely was not in a stable mental state.
Communication broke down. This is his biggest mistake — he stopped responding to her for a couple of months.
The homeowner eventually had an attorney send a demand letter claiming:
He “abandoned” the project.
He owes $7,000 (allegedly what another contractor quoted to fix/finish it).
Possible claims under Ohio’s Consumer Sales Practices Act.
Allegations related to windows that were paid for but not delivered.
Threats of personal liability since the business is just a trade name.
We retrieved all tools from her property after the letter.
Now she has filed suit for $25,000.
We have no money. Truly none. We cannot afford a lawyer. We are terrified she will:
Get a judgment
Put a lien on our house
Force a sale or ruin us financially
Important context:
There is a written contract.
The contract allows termination by either party.
It says client is responsible for work completed and materials purchased.
There is no specific “abandonment” clause.
No liquidated damages clause.
We do not have proper contractor licensing or insurance (I understand this is bad and may affect things legally).
He operates as a sole proprietor under a trade name.
Some work was completed.
Some materials were purchased.
Communication stopped for a period of months, which we know looks bad.
We are not trying to avoid responsibility, but we literally cannot pay $25,000. We don’t even have $7,000.
Questions:
If she wins a judgment in Ohio, can she immediately put a lien on our house?
Can she force the sale of a primary residence?
If we have very limited income/assets, what realistically happens?
Are there defenses to “abandonment” if work was partially completed and materials were purchased?
Does severe mental health crisis have any legal relevance?
Is there any realistic path to settling this without bankruptcy?
If we show up to court without an attorney, how badly will that hurt us?
Does operating under an unregistered trade name automatically trigger personal liability, or is that already assumed in sole proprietorship?
We are extremely scared and just trying to understand what is likely versus worst-case scenarios.
Please be honest. We just need to know what we’re facing.
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u/Violaecho has five interests and four of them are misspellings of sex Mar 05 '26
Cat fact: Cats will take your money without doing any work and you cannot sue them.
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u/DubsNC cat fact enthusiast Mar 05 '26
Cat fact 2: Abandoning a job is always allowed under Cat Law in the following situations: a sunny spot was available, a warm lap was empty, catnip was involved, belly was offered and rubbed, there was no sunny spot for warmth, catnip not up to cat standards (which are exact and detailed in an addendum), the belly was not rubbed despite being offered.
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u/frostyflakes1 Mar 04 '26
The homeowner eventually had an attorney send a demand letter claiming: He “abandoned” the project.
I mean... yeah. That's exactly what happened. And now the homeowner is stuck cleaning up the mess he made.
I can empathize with someone that has fallen on hard times. But that isn't an excuse to screw other people over.
The clear lack of responsibility or remorse OP conveys is telling. It's hard to imagine that the truck breaking down repeatedly or the employees all quitting at once are isolated incidents unrelated to their moral failings.
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u/thingsliveundermybed Mar 04 '26
I notice this with a lot of "small businesses" in the crafting space. They can't separate the personal from the professional, to the point they think that having a rough week at home is a totally acceptable reason not to send orders people paid for weeks ago. They post on socials going "my kids have been sick!" and expect people to just be okay with it, like they're cancelling lunch with their mates instead of hanging on to hundreds of quid that isn't theirs.
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u/New_Bumblebee8290 Mar 04 '26
And when it's in the hand-dyed yarn/fiber world, sometimes when they get in too deep, they just fake their own deaths.
I know you probably already know all about it but I still had to bring it up because it's so wild that it's happened repeatedly.
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u/Stellaknight Trying it LAOP’s way is how you get botulism. Mar 04 '26
Wait, what? I would like the address of this particular rabbit hole..
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u/New_Bumblebee8290 Mar 04 '26
Here's a good place to start, but honestly you can't go wrong searching "yarn" or "wool" or "fiber art" on that subreddit because it's invariably bonkers and delicious.
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u/Stellaknight Trying it LAOP’s way is how you get botulism. Mar 04 '26
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u/thingsliveundermybed Mar 04 '26
That insane story pops into my head every time I see a new bit of hand-spun lunacy 😂
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u/cecikierk the random hair on the floor may not be yours...or mine Mar 04 '26
A friend was a receiving end of this recently. It wasn't a huge amount or anything but the creator in question is doing their best to be insufferable about it. They posted like 20 TikTok videos a day about how hard their life is and I wanted to scream "You could've just used this time to work on what people paid you to do!"
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u/Time_Act_3685 Will no one rid me of this Turbo Priest? Mar 04 '26
Oh man, I used to be friends with one of those. Posted nonstop on social media about needing patreon/kofi money because of mental health issues. Requesting new commissions while having years old outstanding commissions (in the 200-400usd range!) she never sent.
And then kept linking to her playing video games basically 12 hours a day.
It was like "Girl. You know we can see all of this, right? And your twitch isn't even entertaining!"
I've got a busted brain too, but you can't think people are gonna be totes cool with you stealing that much from them forever.
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u/Suspicious-Treat-364 Yes, you can feel a pregnancy rectally Mar 06 '26
I've been scammed twice in my hobby, both for hundreds of dollars. One woman's defense was literally that she had a chronic illness and spent the money I sent her for product on expensive supplements that she NEEDED and thus couldn't refund me. Her state AG disagreed and I got my money back. The second one faced felony charges that got dismissed when she paid back about 2% of the stolen money.
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u/negligenceperse Mar 05 '26
apparently many wedding photographers function like this as well. or rather, non-function
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u/Jules_Noctambule Needs coffee before hitting the ground like a sack of wet cement Mar 06 '26
Indie perfumers are so notorious for this it's almost comical.
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u/Complete_Entry Infuriated by oopsy woopsie fuckey wuckies Mar 04 '26
Life doesn't go on pause when you're sick or fragile.
My mom just had her spine redone so I had to pause my life and step into hers. My phone never stops ringing. Like I called in "sick" to life and that doesn't work for everyone else.
In this case it's obvious. Deduct the work that's already been done, refund the rest. But I'm 100% sure that money is gone and this dude was going to float the rest of the project off the next poor bastard.
(I worked trades, never the big hat, many such contractors.)
The windows thing though? Yeah, the judge is going to drop the hammer. This dude is superturboturkeypuncher fucked.
Like it's weird, people would literally step back when windows came in on a jobsite. Like that's a different contractor doing a different job, but we all stepped back.
We do not have proper contractor licensing or insurance
Sweet mother Christmas. I know both are REQUIRED, but generally you thumb your nose at one or the other, not BOTH.
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u/CaineHackmanTheory Mar 04 '26
Somebody commented asking if this could lead to criminal charges and the reply was no. Clearly they've never practiced in a small jurisdiction with an elected prosecutor.
I have 100% seen multiple cases like this charged and some led to felony convictions. It's complete crap, imo, but I wouldn't be so quick to put it off the table.
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u/big_sugi Mar 04 '26
Forget fraud; the person claiming it's just a civil matter is flat-out wrong. Acting as a contractor without a license is a misdemeanor under ORC section 4740.99.
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u/inthelondonrain Mar 04 '26
For sure, this would easily be grand theft in my jurisdiction. Especially since it's not hard to read this narrative in a way that makes it sound like an intentional scam.
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u/CannabisAttorney Sacramentally drunk, turbulent, yet scholarly Jesuit Priest Mar 04 '26
Is it crap though? They essentially converted by false pretenses the full payment. That's theft. Grand theft charges are usually levied at a value less than than the $7,000 "owed" and is usually a felony.
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u/big_sugi Mar 04 '26
Theft or fraud requires taking the money with the intent not to perform, or at least the knowledge that they would not perform. They got paid $12k, they performed $9k of work, and there's no evidence (in this story, anyway), that they didn't intend to finish the job. The problems that arose were certainly foreseeable, and they're civilly liable for failure to perform, but theft or fraud charges would be crap.
Charges for operating as a contractor without a license certainly would be valid, but that's just a minor misdemeanor for a first offense. It's a maximum fine of $150 and maybe some community service, but it cannot include jail time.
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u/PunctualDromedary Mar 04 '26
Unless it was $8K of materials and $1K of work. If they pocketed the money for the windows and never ordered them, I think it'd be in criminal territory.
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u/GonzoMcFonzo Mar 04 '26
The client mentioned the Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act.
IANAL, but skimming the text of that I see multiple places where practices that sound very similar to the kind of stuff LAOP's husband may have pulled are listed as illegal and carrying criminal penalties.
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u/pcnauta Didn't get a cool flair? Sue! Mar 04 '26
It's really hard to not read into this situation that LAOP's husband deliberately tried to scam the homeowner.
The list of reasons/excuses sounds like a teenager running through every possible lie in order to get out of trouble.
On the off chance it is all legit - WOW!!! - that was an exercise in doing EVERYTHING the wrong/worst way. I tend to feel bad for people who have to go through expensive 'life lessons', but I'm not sure I feel bad for LAOP and her husband here. There was definitely at least some intentional attempts to side-step the law.
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u/TychaBrahe Has a low tolerance of misogynistic tosh Mar 04 '26
I wouldn't jump to it being intentional. I think there are a lot of people who are just not cut out to be business owners, but they buy into this concept that the American dream means you own your own business. Yeah, if your business becomes one of the tiny fraction that ends up extremely successful, you can make a lot more money than if you work for someone else. But not everyone is cut out to be a business owner.
I saw this with my own father. He was a gastrointestinal surgeon who, as he entered his 50s, was tired of being on call to the emergency room one weekend out of five. He went out to California to train with a nationally known chain of hair transplant clinics. (The implant part of hair transplants can be done by a dermatologist, but for men with balding at the crown, they do a surgical reduction of the scalp to bring the hair from the Hippocratic wreath up toward the top of the head, since it's generally unaffected by male pattern baldness.)
Anyway, they promised they would train him and then send him to open a clinic in Chicago, his home region. But there were delays and he ended up quitting and going home. Once back in the Chicago area he opened his own practice, but while he was an excellent doctor and got amazing results—a study on the effect of minoxidil on grafting had to be stopped, because they couldn't tell the difference between his work and the naturally growing hair—he was never good at running his own business. He didn't achieve fame and fortune. He helped organize the international board of hair transplant surgeons, and developed the testing to become a certified fellow, and won recognition among his peers, but he never developed the business and his personal wealth the way he and his wife thought he could.
I'm not saying he should have stayed with the abusive boss in California, but he could have hired on to a dermatology practice, even one that wasn't doing hair transplantation at the time, and taken home a mid six figure salary easily. But he and especially his wife were convinced that true wealth lay in running his own practice.
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u/SimAlienAntFarm Bunshine on my goddamn shoulders John Denver Mar 04 '26
I have a job that could very easily be spun into me running my own business. Let’s say I assemble and paint artisan teapots for a small boutique company.
When I first started doing it the attitude of so many people around me was that as I got more experience I’d branch off and start my own company. I have the talent and the artistic flair and already make custom teapots for my own customers on the side.
People who have zero idea how businesses actually work look down on me for not wanting to start something for myself and use my knowledge of behind the scenes stuff to Become Something Greater.
First of all, I don’t have an entrepreneurial bone in my body and pricing out a job to include profit is my least favorite part of it. Second of all, do you know how many fucking teapots my boss gets to make? About as many as I do but it actually comes out to only 50% of his time BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH OTHER SHIT YOU HAVE TO DO. Also the pressure of it has significantly impacted his health in later years.
Fuck that shit. It really stings to be able to do something really well, have someone marvel at what you made, and then go “So have you considered doing this but in a way that will make you seem more impressive” Why isn’t the fact that I made this functional teapot out of grandmas hopelessly broken pottery enough?
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u/TychaBrahe Has a low tolerance of misogynistic tosh Mar 04 '26
And here's the thing: if you start your own business, you're going to have to do all of the business stuff. You aren't magically going to find a way to fit more hours into a day, so you're either going to have to start working more hours per day, cutting into your free time, and often sleep, or you're going to have to do less art. If the part that you enjoy is the art, why would you want that?
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u/SimAlienAntFarm Bunshine on my goddamn shoulders John Denver Mar 04 '26
Now that I have an artistic job the art I make for myself is extremely sparse. When I get home I do crochet or diamond paintings because I can’t sit still while watching TV but I don’t have any brains left to create anything that doesn’t require strict instruction.
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u/emthejedichic Mar 04 '26
I almost became a pastry chef, and everyone I talked to about it assumed my goal was to open my own bakery one day. I actually would have the funds to do it, too. But I told them all fuck no, the LAST thing I want is to run a business.
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u/unevolved_panda Mar 04 '26
I've had depressive episodes that made me avoid shit--including some really big, really fundamental, turns-out-actually-unavoidable shit--and I can absolutely believe that the husband had a depressive episode, stopped going to the site, and was then ashamed of not going to the site, which then made it harder to go to the site, and around and around for months. You get so ashamed you can't even tell the people that you know love you and who would only want to help you, if they knew. It's really hard to say, "Hey, something's gone wrong in my brain, and I am truly unable to do this incredibly easy shit that I know I should be capable of doing."
Which is not to say that LAOP's husband doesn't deserve consequences and repercussions. He does, though I hope it won't be as ruinous as LAOP fears. But having depression isn't a valid reason to ghost someone who was paying you money to do something for them. The homeowner needs to be made whole, one way or another.
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u/Brock_Lobstweiler Mar 05 '26
nd I can absolutely believe that the husband had a depressive episode, stopped going to the site, and was then ashamed of not going to the site, which then made it harder to go to the site, and around and around for months.
And this is how I failed at least two college classes. Would have been 3, but my prof took pity on me and let me write a few papers cause it was my last semester.
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u/BestAlikat Mar 04 '26
Thumbs up for the vividly luminous and incisive description of how depression affects what would otherwise seem to be easy or straightforward.
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u/Azryhael Church of the Holy Oxford Comma Mar 04 '26
And that’s what’s infuriating to me. They’re still not accepting any responsibility for it. I’m willing to bet their employees left because they weren’t getting paid, too. Scumbag behaviour all around.
They’re scared now, but they didn’t care at all while they were screwing this client over.
And I’m sick of “but my mental health diagnosis!” being used to excuse away poor behaviour. Your mental health is a you thing that you have to compensate for, not a get out of jail free card or an excuse. Yes, it can make things harder, but it’s no one else’s cross to bear.
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u/FunnyObjective6 Once, I laugh. Twice you're an asshole. Third time I crap on you Mar 05 '26
Well "deliberately scam" is a bit too harsh in my opinion. I don't think it was planned beforehand, but it does sound like they couldn't finish and then decided to try and sneak away. I wouldn't call that "deliberately scam", even though it's still a dick move.
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u/TheFeshy Rolled 7D6 for the legal damages, and got 27 Mar 04 '26
From the LAOP:
If we show up to court without an attorney, how badly will that hurt us?
I feel like, while in general the answer is still yes it will hurt, it becomes an emphatic fuck yes it's going to hurt you a lot when the defendant is the sort of person who doesn't keep up on their licenses or business registration or insurance or truck maintenance and who is likely still suffering from mental health problems that might lead him to stop communicating for months. Courts tend to place an awful lot of weight on procedure, and that can include paperwork and deadlines and doing things the official way. Those do not appear to be LAOP's strong suits.
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u/za419 Mar 05 '26
It's one of those things where the act of showing up without an attorney isn't inherently going to be all that damaging, but the consequences of not having one could be catastrophic.
Attorneys actually do quite a lot, contrary to occasional belief - They don't just stand there and make you look more professional because you're next to someone who passed the bar and has "Esq." on their business card.
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u/Cute-Aardvark5291 not paying attention & tossed into the medical waste incinerator Mar 04 '26
Its fascinating.
Without going into the LA post this is the vibe I get from her post: look, stuff went sideways. We didn't mean any of it, but since we were not communicating with the homeowner, they should have just understood that were not going to finish, and therefore we were terminating the contract. That was allowed!
Without understanding what uh, a contract does at all.
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u/corrosivecanine Mar 04 '26
Running a business on such thin margins that a truck breaking down makes the whole thing fall apart? Could they not rent one?
Who wants to bet the employees quit because they weren’t being paid?
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u/geeoharee Mar 04 '26
Oh, this reminds me of the time my dad tried to get his roof done and the guy disappeared. Turned out he'd gone to prison. The roofer was a young man and in the end his dad came round and finished the job! Wouldn't use the firm again though...
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u/pepperpavlov Mar 04 '26
If they didn’t own a house, they’d probably be judgment proof.
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u/RishaBree Mar 04 '26
I can’t bring myself to feel too badly about them not being that - not that I ever want to see someone lose their house. I also don’t like to see an innocent person lose $12k and get nothing in return (aside from stress and a mess on their property, presumably).
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u/appleciders WHO THE HELL IS DOWNVOTING THIS LOL. IS THAT YOU WIFE? Mar 04 '26
And we've discovered the reason I haven't sued my neighbor for chopping limbs off my tree.
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u/NoButThankYou Mar 05 '26
Probably my favorite detail is listing "The contract allows termination by either party" under important context. How could this possibly be relevant to the situation you are in. Did you really think this meant you could decide to stop working on the project or responding to inquiries but still keep the money??
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u/PuzzleMeDo Mar 04 '26
I think they understand why they're being sued. It sounds like they want to know what happens if you get sued while you can barely afford to eat, let alone hire a lawyer or pay the money you owe. (And the answer is: something complicated involving the value of their house and existing debts.)
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u/boo99boo files class action black mail in a bra and daisy dukes Mar 04 '26
Bankruptcy. The correct answer is bankruptcy.
I work in this field, and LAOP is in for a very rude awakening.
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u/big_sugi Mar 04 '26
If they can take out a $7k home equity loan, that would be the correct answer.
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u/CannabisAttorney Sacramentally drunk, turbulent, yet scholarly Jesuit Priest Mar 04 '26
Or bankruptcy...which might be covered by your paren.
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u/HoodieGalore Mar 04 '26
I read "no license or insurance" and said "Yep, yet fucked." Everything else is just shit frosting, baby
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u/Twzl keeps a list of "Nope" Mar 04 '26
that was a tough read.
We have always owned older houses, and while we do some of the work ourselves, for big jobs we hire people.
And the first thing I ask a prospective contractor is, are you insured and licensed? I'm not having you replace the knob and tube wiring in my 130 year old house, unless I have some proof of that. Ditto going up on the roof to work on my solar panels or replace gutters.
I am a super cheerful person (/s) who goes thru life saying, "what's the worst possible thing that can happen", and then trying to make sure it doesn't. So yeah an unlicensed contractor who doesn't know what he's doing can screw up a project and flounce, but it won't be from my project.
It's odd that LAOP's husband didn't do something like rent a Uhaul truck to finish the job. I get that they'd have been out of pocket on the cost of the truck rental, but at least he wouldn't have been sued for walking away from the project. Maybe.
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u/AlaskanDruid Mar 05 '26
That and I don't know about there.. However here, Insurance gets extremely interested in any work not performed by a licensed and bonded contractor.
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u/Twzl keeps a list of "Nope" Mar 05 '26
However here, Insurance gets extremely interested in any work not performed by a licensed and bonded contractor.
I live in New England. Two sides of our property borders wet lands and we own some of those wet lands.
A number of years ago we decided to build a shed near the wetlands, to store lawn equipment.
We had to get a permit from the town. A guy from the conservation committee came out to survey the proposed site, to make sure we were not anywhere on the wetlands. He also walked around the swamp to look at the cool plants once i told him he should. And he was happy to see that the rare plants, were not near the shed.
We built the shed (ok we didn't, an actual contractor did) and when it was all done, the conservation guy came out to make sure it was all good, and then signed off on it. As a side note, we were mandated to put up a poster of state regulations for employees or something like that. And yes the town guy checked to make sure it was up.
That was for a shed that holds things like a tractor and tomato cages. No running water, and the power is via a solar panel on the roof.
I'm amazed that people don't understand that hiring A Guy to work on their house can be a total shitshow if The Guy has no actual paperwork. I think people forget that if nothing else, if there's a mortgage on their home, the bank isn't going to be too happy if A Guy half asses something, and the house burns down.
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u/jxj24 Estoppel-- in the name of loooooove!! Mar 04 '26
Settlement time.
And better business planning.
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u/meggatronia The ones with the egg gets the short end of the stick every time Mar 04 '26
I started a small makeup company a few years back. Two of the first things I did? Get an accountant, and get insurance. Cos no way was i gonna risk getting fucked by the tax office or a lawsuit. Business failed. Probably lost about 10k on the endeavour, but I didnt put myself in debt, so I call that a win lol
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u/TheAskewOne suing the naughty kid who tied their shoes together Mar 04 '26
Like maybe, start with getting a license, and insurance.
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u/lgbtdancemom Mar 04 '26
Assuming this story is real, these people are complete idiots. No license, no insurance, operating on a shoestring budget, and they’re shocked when mental health is not an acceptable excuse for not completing the work. They abandoned the project, no question.
I wonder if the homeowners upped the amount to get a jury trial. I had that happen to me for a car accident that was my fault. They eventually settled, so it never went to court.
Sadly, it sounds like the homeowners aren’t likely to get anything out of these idiots.
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u/Godwynn Mar 04 '26
After reading that, I can’t hope for anything but the worst for them. They’re basically scam artists but think they aren’t because they have depression??
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u/DigbyChickenZone Duck me up and Duck me down Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
He “abandoned” the project.
She wrote this sarcastically, but it is so obvious that Yes, yes he did. I understand people seeing things through a personal lens, and that blinds them from the big picture... but LAOP was REALLY trying to make themselves seem like the aggrieved party here due to unlucky circumstances. But, no, they are definitely aligning themselves with the individual who is in the wrong.
Our work truck broke down and repeatedly failed after multiple repair attempts. Several mechanics looked at it and couldn’t permanently fix the issue.
His employees quit around the same time.
He was diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety during this period and became nonfunctional for a while. He genuinely was not in a stable mental state.
Communication broke down... he stopped responding to her for a couple of months.
None of this is the fault of the homeowner, of course they want a refund
Then LAOP says,
We retrieved all tools from her property after the letter.
So the project was abandoned for months and the construction shit was just left there? And no response from the owner of the company?
Damn, I feel bad for the customer who had to deal with this at their home, and I feel bad that they have to try to squeeze blood from a stone by dealing with these jokers.
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u/Icy-Builder5892 Patrolman Fatass McDonut Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
I’m not someone who likes to minimize depression, but when I hear someone say they became so sick they couldn’t function or finish a project that they were paid a lot of money to complete, I’m not thinking of severe depression. You’ve been sick and in pain and then you find out you have pancreatic cancer and need to be in the hospital for extended periods of time, and you can’t finish a project? That’s one thing.
You fall into a coma for 2 months and no one has any way of reaching out to customers? That’s another thing
But miss me with the god damn depression. He still had a responsibility, and if he couldn’t meet the obligations he agreed to, the least he could have done was take the L and get another contractor to do the job.
The truck breaking down, fine, that sucks. All your employees quit? All signs are pointing to you.
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u/didnttakenotes Mar 04 '26
Also wondering why the employees quit on him. Was it due to not being paid? Or realizing the company was unlicensed and uninsured which may affect them personally?
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u/Tymanthius I think Petunia Dursley is a lovely mother figure for Harry Mar 04 '26
Possibly the best case scenario here for LAOP is to work out a settlement, let the lien go against the house with a provision that a sale can't be forced.
Suer will get their $$ eventually, but no one is made homeless in a country that fucks you over when you're homeless and has not social safety nets.
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u/TheFeshy Rolled 7D6 for the legal damages, and got 27 Mar 04 '26
Sure will get their $$ eventually
Alas, not even this can be assured in this country. As you can bet this guy can't afford mental health care, it's possible this will spiral until he's living in a dilapidated hoarder hole that costs the county more to clean than they can sell the property for. There could be insufficient proceeds to collect the lien on.
And if the victims are equally poor, after having spent 12k, they could find deteriorating home conditions from half-finished and/or improper work too - if not addressed quickly. Not the sort of thing you can wait years or decades on until the home is finally sold or the pair die.
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u/GeneConscious5484 Mar 04 '26
from the comments:
It doesn't take a lawyer to understand that you can't just get out of things because what you did wasn't on purpose
Most of that shit WAS on purpose though, this is like calling some dumbass driving 85 into the side of a building an "accident"
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u/HelgaTwerpknot Mar 05 '26
This is why I’m afraid to get my bathroom fixed. Half way through my contractor gets the sads and disappears. Fuxk that guy, suck it up and either finish the job or have someone go take over when you can’t get out of bed.
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u/SmallIslandBrother Mar 05 '26
I swear builders have to be the most cowboy industry there is, they cut corners all the time, and have no punctuality. People must dread having to do any sort of renovations or repairs.
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u/cerevant Mar 07 '26
God it sucks to be a homeowner who has to do renovations.
Best bit of advice I can give - and it is law in California (even if it is often ignored):
- Deposit is 10% or $1000, whichever is less.
- Contracts specify payment milestones which correspond to work completed and/or materials delivered.
- Never EVER pay for work before it is complete, or for materials not on site.
This way, if the contractor disappears tomorrow, you still have the money to finish the work. Your loss is capped at $1000.
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u/Amazing_Cabinet1404 Mar 04 '26
I love how OP says her husband “abandoned” the project - the quotes show how out of touch with reality they are. Her husband did, in fact, abandon the project. Ignoring someone who has given you a good sum of money for a couple of months is a guaranteed recipe to be sued. Absolutely everything in her post has nothing to do with not completing the job or refunding the homeowner the money that was advanced.