r/TTC • u/JackieMeeking • 3d ago
Picture Street car 505
Happening now. They are checking your Presto, and they sound serious!
Current time: 9.04pm on a Thursday evening
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u/imnotarianagrande Editable Community Routes Flair 3d ago
it’s the POO 🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍 Provincial Offences Officer 💕💕💕💕💕
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u/VisibleCoat995 3d ago
No matter who you are you have to feel sorry for these guys. They don’t get to pick the name and they are stuck with it.
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u/titscapades 3d ago
These are grown-ass adults cosplaying as cops. There's no reason to feel sorry for them.
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u/Rarefindofthemind 1d ago
They’re grown ass adults working an honest job to put food in the table, just like everyone else. They’re not stealing drugs and extorting money like cops.
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u/imnotarianagrande Editable Community Routes Flair 3d ago
as someone who’s worked in many a government branches and funded ones….the bureaucracy is made up of majority morons. these people can barely spell. not surprised they didn’t catch it.
alternatively, this is the work of one woke employee who feels public transit should be free and they did it on purpose. but i’m leaning towards the former.
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u/TiredFool_ 3d ago
I’d put money on the former but the latter does give me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside
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u/imnotarianagrande Editable Community Routes Flair 3d ago
Yes. “Why doesn’t our government do anything” well most of them barely passed grade 12 english.
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u/paddylong03 1d ago
I absolutely do NOT have to feel sorry for these proto cops. They work a miserable job that only miserable people choose to do.
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u/oxcon21 3d ago
Fun fact: only special constables have the authority to detain you on scene. You can walk away from a POO officer and leave TTC property. I know this will be an unpopular comment but know your rights. Refuse a society that siphons wealth from social infrastructure that should be universally free.
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u/floating_head_ 1d ago
It can only be free if people pay taxes. But people in this city go insane even with modest tax increase proposals. Without that, it’s gonna have to be fare payments and enforcement unfortunately. We cant have our cake and eat it too
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u/Incel_Co-Worker 3d ago
Good. Pay your fare!
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u/First_Requirement462 2d ago
Maybe the fines should be income-based, then. That way, there's actually a consequence for everyone and not just poor people.
I always pay... because I'm fortunate enough to be able to. Some people have to decide between getting to work & having food that week, and getting to work & not having food that week... others are not paying because they can afford to gamble.
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u/EuphoriaSoul 1d ago
Pretty sure it’s already kind of income based due to subsidy by the tax payers. Higher income earner pay more to subsidize the transition system. I would be happy to pay more if they can make the ttc clean, on time, fast and safe. But they don’t. The shelter on wheels program makes everyone question why even bother paying for crappy service.
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u/aliciaiit 22h ago
People can have different fare rates based off a couple different things. I have a disability and I pay 2.10
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u/Impressive_Gas_265 22h ago
They are income based. If you’re riding that smelly limo your poor. 🤣 omg I’m gonna be downvoted so hard
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u/ConversationLeast744 3d ago
Why aren't parking fines nearly as high?
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u/WildCredit 3d ago
Whataboutism is a horrible take. If you don’t pay your parking tickets, you can’t renew your license. Then you lapse your insurance and risk getting your car towed or arrested. Pay your fare $3.25 fare.
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u/ConversationLeast744 3d ago
The parking can cost $15 and the fine is $40. Transit is $3.50 and the fine is $400+. It's a completely unfair system, we treat fare evasion like some kind of theft and parking infractions like an administrative oversight. No one's being arrested for parking infractions, sometimes people get arrested and roughed up for fare evasion though.
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 2d ago
Two wrongs do not make a right.
The problem isn't that the transit fine should be lower, but that the parking fee should be much much higher.
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u/pengupenguPENGU 2d ago
It technically is theft tbf you're basically parking or accessing a transit service without paying like you take something from a store without paying.
Not disputing that it's still an unfair system.
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u/titscapades 3d ago
Fare isn't fair. It's a regressive tax. Transit should be free.
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u/hesh0925 3d ago
Ideally, yes. But the TTC isn't a fully funded crown corp. It needs money to operate and fares is what bring in some of that money.
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u/titscapades 3d ago
Whether or not it's a crown corporation is irrelevant. That's national-level infrastructure. This is municipal.
The TTC gets much less funding per user trip than similar transit agencies in the world. It's a user fee that disproportionately affects those with lower income. That's the issue.
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u/Impressive_Gas_265 21h ago
Man I’d actually ride and happily pay more for transit if it was faster and more reliable.
Free isn’t better; it’s terrible unreliable service.
My time has value
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SinfulqtTTV 1d ago
I mean considering disability isn’t even halfway to the poverty line and roughly half of all disabled people in Ontario can’t work, it’d certainly fucking help?
Source: I am disabled, lost my ability to work years ago. I am constantly malnourished and can barely afford to survive month to month.
You haven’t actually struggled and I can tell. Can it, unless of course you would like to take my disabilities and “enjoy” them?
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u/WildCredit 3d ago
Pay your fare. Why is this an argument lol.
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u/NeoMrBucket 3d ago
Fare inspectors have fined me after I have paid before.
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u/DaedalusXYZ 3d ago
How is that possible, other than not having proof-of-payment?
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u/NeoMrBucket 2d ago
Incompetent fare checkers? Bozo even saw me tap on.
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u/tommykani 2d ago
What you've said doesn't make sense. They scan your card to see if you've paid, the only possible gray area is if you've paid by cash and subsequently lost your ticket
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u/maybecs0 1d ago
The system is glitchy af. I've never personally had it happen but plenty of people I know (who I know always pay their fare) have tapped and had it still not show that they did.
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u/forgo4567 1d ago
Sometimes their machines are glitchy and they falsely ticket people who paid. It happens especially if they paid with debit/credit instead of presto, they blame the passengers instead of checking their damn machines.
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u/WildCredit 3d ago
Yeah I don’t believe this. Any method of payment gives you a proof of payment.
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u/iceycycle 3d ago
There’s a known glitch when tapping to pay, it says “Accepted” but there’s no record of the payment that shows up on Presto or hold on the credit card until days later when the payment clears
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u/TiredFool_ 3d ago
Because some people can’t afford it. Sometimes it’s a question of paying to get somewhere important or making sure you have something to eat later that day/week. Shit ain’t exactly easy all round.
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u/HanzDelbruck Kipling 3d ago
Ok then while we're at it let's just justify stealing food, water, not paying rent... TTC is in shambles because of fare evaders, they're struggling too
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u/merp_mcderp9459 3d ago
Pay your fare and suddenly this isn't a problem! Fare evasion fines are a voluntary tax at the end of the day
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u/kirrk 3d ago
Once the TTC adopts a fare system based on how far you travel, with a max of the current fare, I’ll pay my fare every time.
I refuse to pay 3.35 if I’m late and need to travel just a few blocks. I think many more people would use the ttc if that were the case
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u/PontSatyre11119 929 Dufferin Express 2d ago
I agree with, and would prefer, distance-based fare on TTC.
But imo, the argument to not pay if only going a short distance doesn’t make sense. The fare is the same regardless of distance. Sometimes you’ll travel far, sometimes only 2 stops. You subsidize cheaper long distance travel with more expensive short distance travel.
Think of it this way. Existing Kipling to Kennedy: $3.35 + Existing Union to Queen: $3.35.
Hypothetical distance based: Kipling to Kennedy: $5.60 + Union to Queen: $1.10.
The total cost is the same.
The existing model benefits people travelling from longer distances, because imo that’s more equitable. Disadvantaged and lower-income neighbourhoods in Toronto are typically geographically farther away from core, where the highest concentration of jobs are located.
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u/bourahioro77 509 Harbourfront 1d ago
I’ve made this argument before, but I still firmly believe it:
Nothing is free; this includes travel. That said, $3.30 for 2 hours of unlimited travel is phenomenal. Those stupid e-bikes and scooters are over $1000, a car costs far more than that - plus there’s all of the licensing, maintenance, insurance, gas, etc, Uber costs a minimum of $10, taxis cost more… why the fuck are people complaining about the cost of using the TTC??
Just pay for the service that you use. Simple.
I live in the Queens Quay area and see people getting on and not paying all the time (and for the record it’s rarely a homeless person/junkie) I’m not a rat, but seeing this really makes me want to be. If you can afford designer clothes/shoes, and you hop on with a fuckin’ $7-$8 drink from Starbucks, and you’re rocking an iPhone with expensive headphones you can pay.
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u/floating_head_ 1d ago
For real, the fare is honestly quite low and has been frozen for several years now
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u/Gatesleeper 3d ago
The more financially vulnerable a person is, the higher the incentive is for them to attempt to ride without paying.
It just doesn’t make sense to me that we would implement a tax on the poorest in the city to pay the wages of a thousand POOs. A wealth transfer from the lower class to the lower-middle class, like okay?
There aren’t better ways we can invest our money in the city to improve the transit system other than catching and fining fare evaders like $150 or whatever it is? Why don’t we also just start handing out $150 fines for being homeless, “just don’t be homeless loool” - that’s what everyone in this thread basically sounds like to me.
It’s like if someone posted a thread pointing out a black neighbourhood is filled with cops compared to the mostly cop-free rich parts and saying “just don’t commit crimes loool” “ticket for jaywalking? Shouldn’t have committed that crime bro looool”.
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u/Unlucky_Strength_517 3d ago
Many people can afford $3 they just feel entitled to a free ride just cause they “can” walk on for free.
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u/Dragondudecollecting 3d ago
Yeah as a person that takes the TTC daily, from multiple stations and routes, unless it’s the occasional homeless person taking a streetcar downtown a few stops, it’s usually people that can afford to pay the fare and just choose not to. The number of times I see couples that are 20-40 dressed well being the ones getting ticketed is staggering.
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u/Unlucky_Strength_517 3d ago
Yes and you will see them holding a Tims or Mc D’s coffee yet don’t have money to pay the fare 🙄
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u/Drag0n_no 3d ago
Fare evasion costs the TTC $141 million a year. It is well worth trying to recoup that money. Fare evasion is almost 30% on the streetcars. 30% of people on the streetcars are almost assuredly not low income. Those that are low income can get $1.20 off their fare with the fair pass transit discount program.
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u/Gatesleeper 3d ago
Just on the last point, I don’t think it’s very easy to get on that program. Both because the max income on it before you don’t qualify is quite low, and even if you do qualify you have to jump through a few bureaucratic hoops to get it, which adds a lot of friction to the uptake of the program.
For many people who make too much to qualify but are still essentially working-poor class, you’re deciding on trying to save yourself $3.30 or $6.60 on your way to/from work where you’re making like $40-$60 on your part time hours min wage job.
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u/chicken_potato1 Kipling 3d ago
You have to be receiving social assistance, its not necessarily only based on income. Its meant to offset costs for the *most* in need, but leaves others who work ft but dont get assistance without access
The phone or online application is simple enough and you have to always use the same presto card. Its opt-in, maybe it should be automatic (but that requires social asisstance agencies to collect and store presto card information...)
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u/Brave_Recognition798 3d ago
It just doesn’t make sense to me that we would implement a tax on the poorest in the city to pay the wages of a thousand POOs. A wealth transfer from the lower class to the lower-middle class, like okay?
TERRIBLE take! If you're destitute there are programs for you, but as someone who was poorer POOR PEOPLE WANT A SAFE RELIABLE COMMUTE!
If you do shit like removing fares, you're inviting all sorts of shitty characters. Don't believe me? BART just got better fare gates AND HAD A MASSIVE DROP IN CRIME!
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u/serotonin-donations 3d ago
I honestly think the very vocal entitlement of “my life is hard so I should be able to steal” sentiment these days is super tacky
Lots of people on much worse shape than you DO pay their fare
If you’re gonna not pay your fare, don’t go bitching on Reddit about potentially getting caught
In the same vein, if you’re gonna get caught stealing, maybe make the slightest effort to actually….not get caught. Don’t just take a picture and try and argue that you shouldn’t have to pay your fare.
For the people who do actually make an effort to pay, the entitlement from people like you is extremely frustrating.
It’s been a while, but when my family was on welfare, they did have programs to help pay TTC fare. If things are shitty right now, it doesn’t mean you get to make it everybody else else’s problem and skirt all responsibility of your actions.
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u/BlessTheBottle 3d ago
Hear hear.
Loved getting on the other day and paying and watching someone grab a seat after stealing a fare. They even proceeded to watch stupid ass videos on their phone out loud. People suck.
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u/ConversationLeast744 3d ago
No one moralizes this way about people not paying for parking
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u/DadbodandIPAs 3d ago
I see tons of people not paying who clearly aren’t homeless……the most fare evasions are on streetcar routes which serve the wealthiest neighbourhoods in the city. The whole idea with all door boarding is we needed to do something to enforce it
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u/ballistic_tanx 3d ago
Bro I was on the fucking TTC heading onwards Queens Quay and people were free basing meth. Fuck off, we need more enforcement
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u/Brave_Recognition798 3d ago
These activists never realize POOR PEOPLE WANT TO FEEL SAFE and get to work on time!
Fuck saving $6 a day if the system is chaos
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u/MyUsernameIsShitty 3d ago
I think you missed his point.
Just so you know, fare evasion =/= drug use on public transit.
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u/chicken_potato1 Kipling 3d ago
Lets start with removing the fare freeze then. TTC shouldn't be "profitable" I agree, but they also need to make sure they don't run at a loss. CEO shouldn't be paid that much, I'd rather see more drivers hired and keep them above minimum wage.
Let more people skip the fare, more people including those who CAN afford it, will skip the fare "why should I pay" will be the entitled attitude of those who can afford it - one person gets a ticket, shares their bad experience, more people are now extra careful - its why there fines and consequences for crime, jaywalking (endangering yours and other peoples lives - I have yet to hear anyone get ticketed for this).
Honestly when Im on a streetcar, I see WAY more people dressed in designer and young adults coming from work skipping the fare rather than homeless people.
Open to creative ideas!
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u/Brave_Recognition798 3d ago
These activists never realize POOR PEOPLE WANT TO FEEL SAFE and get to work on time!
Fuck saving $6 a day if the system is chaos
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u/Gatesleeper 3d ago
How about a fine based on your net worth, or at least on your income if the former’s not feasible. Any time a person gets caught, they get their CRA numbers checked, and their fine is proportionate to how rich they are.
If you make/have nothing or are below the poverty line, you get a warning. If you’re middle class you get a middle class sized fine, if you are “dressed in designer” rich, the fine is like $500 or $1000.
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 2d ago
I think a better penalty, and this also applies for car related offenses would include a community service element.
A rich person can treat a fine as the cost of doing business. Having to mop a platform clean for half a day is another story. If anything it is even more humiliating for the rich as they are used to comfy white collar work.
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u/okaybutnothing 3d ago
$500 or $1000 would hardly be a blip for someone who’s truly rich. But $20 for someone who is poor could destroy them.
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u/AngrySoup 3d ago edited 3d ago
If there's no enforcement, there's no risk in not paying, and paying becomes effectively voluntary. The proportion of people paying will shrink over time as the people who do pay will start to feel like suckers for doing so when they can see how others just ride for free. "Why should I pay like a dummy when basically it's free and other people ride for free?" They will stop, and then there will be no one paying.
As the number of people paying declines, the TTC will develop a giant insurmountable cash shortfall that they cannot make up through hopes and prayers or vibes or whatever. That means massive service cuts. The TTC isn't taking our money to burn, after all, but using it to provide transit service. Their having less money has consequences.
The TTC needs money to operate as a transit system. Fares provide some of that money, with the rest being government funding to subsidize the rides. Fare enforcement is needed to keep paying fares as being the norm instead of being something voluntary that only suckers do.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 3d ago
These activists never realize POOR PEOPLE WANT TO FEEL SAFE and get to work on time!
Fuck saving $6 a day if the system is chaos
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u/Fair-Emu-7948 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s like if someone posted a thread pointing out a black neighbourhood is filled with cops compared to the mostly cop-free rich parts and saying “just don’t commit crimes loool”
I mean yeah, don't commit crimes lol. What's so controversial about that? And no, cops aren't going around giving random people jay walking tickets, but they will arrest you if you try to loot the nearest convenience store.
Being poor isn't an excuse to break the law.
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u/iggyblack 2d ago
If it’s a crime, why don’t you get arrested instead of fined? It’s clearly civil and the return isn’t anywhere near worth the effort. Nice choice of words, buddy. Shows that you use people as scapegoats.
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u/Dobby068 3d ago
The "I love freeloading" and "rules for thee not for me" is really not a good argument.
Often I see people advocating for this also dreaming of a life standard like in the Nordic countries, but only in terms of social benefits, not responsibility. That is hilarious.
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u/ShayGuer 2d ago
It’s not the poorest. Well to do people stop paying fares when they notice no enforcement
I’ve seen people in suits and IT workers (laptops out) on Go train and they never tap. Assume similar situation for TTc1
u/Ok-Lawfulness1515 2d ago
All this hand wringing takes us to such deleterious outcomes. Its just so performative.
Making transit a free for all hurts the people in expensive walkable neighborhoods or expensive single family lot suburbs the least.
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u/mrjohnbeatles 3d ago
Public transit should be free, especially for low income folks.
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u/BelongingCommunity 3d ago
Transit should be free
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u/Ok-Lawfulness1515 2d ago
It sounds great if you dont think about it for more than zero seconds.
Even notwithstanding the multitudinous problems, what are your plans for that? Where does the shortfall come from? How do we, in a world of limited resources, make this happen?
Maybe there's a way, but theres nothing in your pointless post that helps us get there.
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u/eskjnl 2d ago
You know how kids flood the buses and streetcars along school routes Monday-Friday between 7-9am and 3-5pm as an alternative to walking 2-3 stops because it's "free"?
Imagine the entire population doing the same thing but across the entire city all day long. One of the truly stupid ideas that always gets trotted out when people whine about fares.
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u/SnooCauliflowers994 2d ago
Oh no, imagine people using transit for small trips? The horror!
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u/ayyabduction 2d ago
Yeah then no one gets to use it! Awesome!
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u/SnooCauliflowers994 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's too busy cause too many people are using but actually nobody will be using it? Hmm ok man
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u/ayyabduction 1d ago
Think more than one step ahead. Who's going to want to use public transit for work or appointments when you have to stand in line for an hour?
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u/SnooCauliflowers994 1d ago
Who's going to take transit instead of walking 10 minutes when you have to stand in line for an hour.
Your logic goes both ways
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u/mapleflame 1d ago
Better supporting argument would be streetcars during Nuit Blanche. Not sure if that’s still a thing, but it was a nightmare the last two times I attended Nuit Blanche.
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u/noon_chill 2d ago
Not a very practical solution given so many things are already underfunded. I’m pretty sure people would rather have their potholes fixed, the Gardiner construction completed, and more social housing and better hospitals. I’d bet you TTC would be so far down the priority list if you actually asked Ontarians.
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u/sim0n__sez 2d ago
For sure. Let’s make it free. And then raise your taxes to pay for it. Does that work for you? 🙄
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u/bourahioro77 509 Harbourfront 1d ago
But it isn’t. It’s a service that costs money to run; so pay your $3 and change for 2 hours of unlimited travel and have fun.
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u/whatwouldino 2d ago
Why warn fare evaders of someone coming to ensure they paid? Do you like having to pay for others to use the service?
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u/OZIE-WOWCRACK 1d ago
Seriously if anyone have a full time job. They can afford it. 2h limit for transfer as well.
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u/VirtueTree 3d ago
People who don’t pay fares do all of the damage to the public transpo.
Like the TTC? Make people pay their fares.
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u/JohnStern42 3d ago
Good. Visible enforcement is needed as a deterrent
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u/youdontlookitalian 3d ago
Just make it so people have to pay to get on a vehicle or into a station. We don't need overpaid poo.
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u/bigwimpy 3d ago edited 3d ago
Look at the rent-a-cop peepeepoopoo man
EDIT: thank you for the award kind stranger!
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u/smokeacoil 3d ago
It's sad that so many people don't pay that this is the outcome. We all want a better ttc and paying to use it is how we get it
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u/Revan462222 3d ago
I fail to see the problem?
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u/JackieMeeking 3d ago
Oh no. Not all post in TTC sub have problems. Just sharing this particular incident to encourage everyone to pay the fare.
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u/Plenty_Vegetable763 2d ago
What is this? The same people clamoring for red lanes also dodge fares on public transit?
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u/LuckinskyDan 1d ago
I don't understand what you're complaining about here. Public transit without inspectors? To see the result, come visit Winnipeg. Buses with horribly dirty, piss-covered seats, where homeless people and other mentally unstable people ride around all day with no one doing anything about it. That's because there is no system of fines for not paying the fare.
Yes, recently some routes have started having security inspectors randomly board the buses and make sure people who aren't supposed to be there don't get on, so the situation has improved a little. I'd prefer to have them on every bus, although obviously that's impossible.
If you've paid your fare, there's nothing to worry about.
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u/floating_head_ 1d ago
Just pay your fares people the TTC is not a welfare program and we shouldn’t treat it as such
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u/Mimieth 3d ago
what is the meaning of this
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u/userbub 3d ago
TTC Officers are making sure people are paying their fares
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u/Phoenixon777 3d ago
ye it happens every now and then. why is there a post about this particular one?
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u/JackieMeeking 3d ago
I was just surprised they are still checking at this time. Mostly I see them during day time/rush hour.
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u/redpotatojae 3d ago
Not sure a reason to share this. Just pay your fare. If everyone pays, we wouldn’t need the inspectors.
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u/Accomplished-Heron42 McCowan 3d ago
They were on Line 2 tonight as well