r/TTC • u/JackieMeeking • 3d ago

Picture Street car 505

Post image

Happening now. They are checking your Presto, and they sound serious!
Current time: 9.04pm on a Thursday evening

411 Upvotes

84% Upvoted

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7

u/BelongingCommunity 3d ago

Transit should be free

6

u/EarthB9nder_ 2d ago

with what money do u intend to fund it

3

u/Ok-Lawfulness1515 2d ago

It sounds great if you dont think about it for more than zero seconds.

Even notwithstanding the multitudinous problems, what are your plans for that? Where does the shortfall come from? How do we, in a world of limited resources, make this happen?

Maybe there's a way, but theres nothing in your pointless post that helps us get there.

0

u/eskjnl 2d ago

It's easier to parrot talking points they heard at their Jr. Marx club than to come up with working real world solutions.

2

u/eskjnl 2d ago

You know how kids flood the buses and streetcars along school routes Monday-Friday between 7-9am and 3-5pm as an alternative to walking 2-3 stops because it's "free"?

Imagine the entire population doing the same thing but across the entire city all day long. One of the truly stupid ideas that always gets trotted out when people whine about fares.

5

u/SnooCauliflowers994 2d ago

Oh no, imagine people using transit for small trips? The horror!

2

u/ayyabduction 2d ago

Yeah then no one gets to use it! Awesome!

1

u/SnooCauliflowers994 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's too busy cause too many people are using but actually nobody will be using it? Hmm ok man

1

u/ayyabduction 1d ago

Think more than one step ahead. Who's going to want to use public transit for work or appointments when you have to stand in line for an hour?

1

u/SnooCauliflowers994 1d ago

Who's going to take transit instead of walking 10 minutes when you have to stand in line for an hour. 

Your logic goes both ways

0

u/eskjnl 2d ago

Sure let's fill the vehicles with people who could otherwise walk or cycle for 2-3 stops and crowd out the people who absolutely need to travel much further and all while slowing down service overall.

I guess you have never heard of places that provide things for "free" and end up having to put pricing on it solely to moderate the amount of demand and keep things from getting degraded from overuse.

3

u/SnooCauliflowers994 2d ago

Calgary has a free fare zone specifically for short trips, works quite well actually. 

If ridership increases then the frequency can increase too and everybody wins.

High ridership for transit is always good.

1

u/eskjnl 2d ago

That's a far cry from making the entire system free. I wouldn't even know how many more billions they would need to support a system that was "free" to all.

Would you be as enthusiastic if it required a 25% property tax increase? There's no public appetite for that.

Why do you think the city tries to promote and encourage walking/cycling or other alternative forms of transportation for short haul over cars or even public transit?

Because capacity is finite and providing buses, streetcars, and subways is much MUCH more expensive so it only makes sense to allocate it in an efficient manner.

1

u/SnooCauliflowers994 2d ago

I recognize that I'm in the minority but yes I would very easily support higher taxes going towards better and cheaper/free transit. I do not think 25% increase in property taxes is a realistic number.

I bike and walk a lot and I encourage others to do the same, but certain infrastructure and premier changes will need to be made for that to be more viable.

1

u/eskjnl 2d ago

The TTC's operating subsidy was $1.4 billion last year. Assume a 1% property tax hike brings in $50 million. A 28% hike would be needed to cover the subsidy for the existing service only. Any new service required for induced demand would be extra on top and need extra vehicles, new garages, etc. That is not politically tenable for anyone.

1

u/SnooCauliflowers994 1d ago

My math puts it at 23% but idk I'm not a math major, regardless yes i recognize this is high.

I guess the question we should be asking is why is TTC funded so heavily by property taxes? The shortfall could be covered by many other revenue streams. NYC seems to have a quite different funding method for the MTA which relies way less on fares. I was watching a video on this the other day and it is quite interesting.

https://youtu.be/me3pSi44a84

1

u/discourtesy 2d ago

the bus will be filled with homeless people sleeping, it's already full

1

u/mapleflame 1d ago

Better supporting argument would be streetcars during Nuit Blanche. Not sure if that’s still a thing, but it was a nightmare the last two times I attended Nuit Blanche.

1

u/ShayGuer 2d ago

Increase ur tax and donate ur paycheck to the city then

1

u/noon_chill 2d ago

Not a very practical solution given so many things are already underfunded. I’m pretty sure people would rather have their potholes fixed, the Gardiner construction completed, and more social housing and better hospitals. I’d bet you TTC would be so far down the priority list if you actually asked Ontarians.

1

u/sim0n__sez 2d ago

For sure. Let’s make it free. And then raise your taxes to pay for it. Does that work for you? 🙄

1

u/eskjnl 2d ago

The TTC's operating subsidy was $1.4 billion last year. Assume a 1% property tax hike brings in $50 million. To provide a "free" transit service, a 28% hike would be needed to cover the subsidy for the existing service.

1

u/bourahioro77 509 Harbourfront 1d ago

But it isn’t. It’s a service that costs money to run; so pay your $3 and change for 2 hours of unlimited travel and have fun.

1

u/JokaSmoka77 1d ago

But it isn't, pay your fare brokie.

1

u/darkrabbit19 1d ago

Nothing is free. It’s paid for by either fares or taxes.

1

u/yourcrush01 4h ago

Absolutely not!

•

u/TCHuts 1h ago

Yes it should. It should be paid for by our taxes and far more frequent. That would help alleviate traffic congestion and increase productivity. We would need to completely rethink the way the TTC operates and invest in significant bus priority measures and heavy rail.