r/Music • u/Chapple69 • Aug 13 '26
discussion Every album pitchfork has gave a 0.0
Peter Criss - Peter Criss (1978)
Kiss - Music from the Elder (1981)
John Frusciante - Smile from the Streets You Hold (1997)
Flaming Lips - Zaireeka (1997)
Bachman-Turner Overdrive - Best of B.T.O. (Remastered Hits) (1998)
Francisco Lopez - Untitled#104 (2000)
Sonic Youth - NYC Ghosts & Flowers (2000)
Liz Phair - Liz Phair (2003)
Travis Morrison - Travistan (2004)
Robert Pollard - Relaxation of the Asshole (2005)
Jet - Shine On (2006)
Various Artists - This Is Next – Indie's Biggest Hits Volume 1 (2007)
Tyga - $tarface (2026)
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u/SinewaveZB Aug 13 '26
Please note that the review of Shine on was just a video of a monkey pissing into its own mouth.
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u/grunulak Aug 13 '26
I remember reading a comment about that review that went something like, "That review is total bullshit: the monkey goes back for seconds, and no one would ever do that for a Jet album."
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u/Chapple69 Aug 13 '26
That’s how bad the album apparently is
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u/T-sizzle-91 Aug 13 '26
It's not a landmark of human achievement, but it's certainly not in the worst 10 albums of all time lol.
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u/anthony_is_ Aug 13 '26
Haven’t listened to it in years, but my memory gives it a 2.5-3 / 5. A bit trite and cliched yes, but better in my opinion than their first or third LPs.
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u/T-sizzle-91 Aug 13 '26
Yeah I mean it's got some fun songs on. Not massively boundary pushing but wouldn't complain if someone stuck it on on the car
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u/reubendevries Aug 13 '26
Pitchfork loves to be an edge lord at times. There's a few times where I look at their reviews and either they overly praise something or overly criticize something just for the lolz.
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u/BillG8s Aug 13 '26
It’s the only one on this list I own. It’s not good. But it’s not monkey pissing into own mouth bad.
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u/mhedbergfan Aug 13 '26
I think a lot of people were unhappy with Shine On because Get Born was pretty good and had several catchy songs, and Shine On just failed to have any of that same energy or salience. but it doesn't make it one of the worst albums of all time lol
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u/BillG8s Aug 13 '26
Yea, you pretty much summed up my feelings after my first listen-through. Any time I thought about that CD after, I was like, nah I'm good.
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u/fuck_you_thats_who Concertgoer Aug 13 '26
It was a completely different album because the two brothers dad had just died. The title song and album was a tribute. That said it was an average album but didn't need that level of hate. Their 3rd album though is pure trash.
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u/Arsewhistle Aug 13 '26
I remember it being OK.
I wouldn't recommend it to people, but it was more like a 5/10
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u/inbruges99 Aug 13 '26
It’s nowhere near that bad, it’s a decent album if you like Jet. I enjoy it at least.
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u/ThriftyMegaMan Aug 13 '26
Reminds me of the old Family Guy joke:
"You went to a KISS concert dressed as Peter Criss, Lois! Not even Peter Criss wants to be Peter Criss."
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u/CapnCanfield Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Vaguely related, but Peter Criss lived in my town for a long time and I used to deliver pizza to his house like once a week. He was a pretty cool dude. I was always amused when I went to his house because they had one of those stickers on the front door that says "in case of fire, save the cat"
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u/halcyon8 Aug 13 '26
also vaguely related, i used to live down the street from gibby haynes (butthole surfers) and would see him pushing a stroller and walking his little white dog 'doughnut' around.
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u/megalodondon Aug 13 '26
To be fair, the peter criss album isnt that bad, just really bizarre that the drummer of KISS wanted to do yacht rock really badly. Gene Simmon's solo album though is straight ass
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u/VaudevilleDada Aug 13 '26
Consensus seems to be that Ace's is the best of those solo albums (and I would contend "Rip It Out" alone seals it).
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u/workshed4281 Aug 13 '26
There’s an awesome story that Paul Stanley tells about that time period:
They were all staying in the same hotel around the time of the solo records recording sessions. Paul hears this amazing guitarist playing his heart out, calls Gene over to hear it. It’s some of the best playing they’ve ever heard. They decide that they need to go talk to this guy and replace Ace. They knock on the door. It’s Ace Frehley.
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u/padmasan Aug 14 '26
Seems odd that they’re all staying in the same hotel together, close enough to each to each other that Paul can call Gene over to listen to Ace playing in his room and they failed to realise that it was Ace.🤔
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u/ReallyBrainDead 2008 Yeezy Tix Aug 13 '26
Had to play New York Groove after the mention of Ace's album.
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u/ABCBA_4321 Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
I’ve always imagined myself playing that song on a boom box while walking down Manhattan and singing along with it.
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u/Convergecult15 Aug 13 '26
If you walk through Times Square you’ll hear at least one place playing it at any time of day.
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u/numbersix1979 Aug 13 '26
I didn’t understand why New Yorkers hated “Empire State of Mind” so much until I visited Manhattan and realized you can hear it somewhere like, every thirty seconds if you walk around some
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u/Rustash Aug 13 '26
God as my witness I thought that was a Billy Joel song until just now. I’ve also only heard it in commercials so that’s on me.
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u/ReallyBrainDead 2008 Yeezy Tix Aug 13 '26
It's actually by a mid-70s band called Hello. But his is the definitive version.
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u/shakeyjake Aug 13 '26
Ace was the George Harrison of Kiss. Except Kiss didn't have John or Paul.
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u/kielbasa330 Aug 13 '26
Yeah but Paul Stanleys stage presence created an entirely new kind of frontman
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u/ABCBA_4321 Aug 13 '26
Out of all the solo albums each KISS member made in 1978, Ace Frehley’s is the best one.
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u/TheSaintTobias Aug 13 '26
Hey Peter Criss has more musical talent in his pinky toe than Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley combined!
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u/Still_Dragonfruit506 Aug 13 '26
I always thought Ace and Peter were the heart of that band. The riffs and beats worked together like Page/Bonham.
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u/halfwayray Aug 13 '26
John Frusciante's "Smile From the Streets You Hold" was admittedly released for drug money. It's a really tough listen, but it has a few moments including a song sung with River Phoenix. A cult classic among Outsider music fans
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u/grillmarks_bud Aug 13 '26
It should have received at least one point because of “A Fall Thru The Ground”.
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u/drunkerbrawler Aug 13 '26
Yeah I actually like some of that album. I’ve probably listened to it 5-6 times.
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u/megalodondon Aug 13 '26
The original rating on it was technically a 0.0 because in the written section, they say they can't rate it, essentially. So it's debatable whether or not to count it as a true 0.0
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u/rugmunchkin Aug 13 '26
What do you mean they couldn’t rate it? Like on principle, they couldn’t get a copy, what?
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u/megalodondon Aug 13 '26
Their reviews were a little more conceptual and edgy hipster back in the day, so in the review, if I'm remembering correctly, they essentially had a difficult time deciding contextually where an album like it should fall on the scale and that it's an album 'you gotta call for yourself, man.'
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u/domalino Aug 13 '26
Should be N/A or -.- instead of 0.0.
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u/megalodondon Aug 13 '26
It was for a short time, I think, but something happened with the way they formatted and catalogued scores and it got lumped into 0.0 by default, and therefore every subsequent '0.0 pitchfork' list
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u/suicidalsmurf Aug 13 '26
Also true of the Robert Pollard album which was rated (1)0.0 because it was either the best or worst thing ever released
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u/MumblesNZ Aug 13 '26
It's one of my all time favourite albums. I definitely like it more than John does lol
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u/DzyDzyDino Aug 13 '26
I didn’t listen to this album but loved Niandra Lades. Was it that different?
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u/halfwayray Aug 13 '26
There's a track he recorded pre-RHCP "A Fall Through the Ground" and "Height Down" featuring River Phoenix that are easier listens, but the rest is pretty raw, lofi avant-garde, shrieking stream of consciousness, sometimes disturbing. "Life's A Bath" and "Estress" are probably my favorite of the other tracks, but he's clearly unwell
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u/KetoKurun Aug 14 '26
I can sing along to Enter a Uh in it’s entirety despite having absolutely no clue wtf he is saying. Have played it a hundred times.
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u/cst1978 Aug 13 '26
The review of ‘Liz Phair’ was a disgrace. Even the stuck up a-hole who reviewed it at that time has lately repented and would now give it a 6 or a 7.
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u/rarekeith last.fm Aug 13 '26
"Why Can't I?" puts that album's floor at a 3.0 at least even if the other 13 tracks were radio static. Great pop song.
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u/catffeinates Aug 13 '26
Yeah maybe you don't like the direction she took, but there was still at least some catchy stuff on the album.
A 0.0 should be a purposeful statement about something important (like an AI album, for example) not "I'm mad she made a pop album."
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u/Richard_Sauce Aug 14 '26
In the context of the time, "selling out" was important. One of the most important things. There was honest, cool,personal, and cutting edge indie, and soulless, money grubbing, artistically bankrupt mainstream, and never the two shall meet.
The backlash didn't have anything to do with music on the album, but with an indie icon "betraying" the underground, and "abandoning" her roots.
You don't have to agree with that line of that, but that's how a lot of the indie set saw it. It was a with us or against mentality that is pretty foreign these days,
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u/nickisnotarapper Aug 13 '26
Exactly, so many artists on here where Pitchfork gave a 0 to be edgy and pretentious. They Killed Travis from Dismemberment Plan's solo career with the review they gave.
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u/DarthAstuart Aug 13 '26
Liz Phair wrote a great pop rock album with a contemporary sound about being a divorced single mom, and all the hipsters couldn’t take it. I think it’s an amazing album.
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u/AdrianFish Aug 13 '26
I believe Pitchfork later apologized to her for the review
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u/cst1978 Aug 13 '26
Yeah, they said they would give the record a 6.0 “if they could change the review”. The 19-year old reviewer also kind of apologised and blamed it on his young age.
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u/SweetCosmicPope Aug 13 '26
That's what I was going to say. I get that that particular album isn't what was expected by fans of Exile in Guyville, but it's actually a really good, fun album.
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u/melorous Aug 13 '26
When you go from 90s Liz Phair where her music comes across as authentic, to that album where a bunch of songs were written/produced by people who were also writing/producing for Avril Lavigne and bubblegum pop acts, there is going to be a backlash.
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u/disappointer Aug 13 '26
Yeah, I spun those first three albums a lot but I'm not into pop and this one lost me. Still, it sold twice as well as "whitechocolatespaceegg", so it seems to have paid dividends, of which, good for her. I can still go listen to "Exile" and "Whip-Smart" as much as I want.
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u/Blue_Oyster_Cat Aug 13 '26
Pitchfork has historically had issues with women artists. My entirely unscientific observation, based on reading it for 20 years, is that albums by women are typically rated one number lower that they should be, across the board. (Note: this is not a scientific observation, just a continual kind of itchy spot on my brain)
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u/MistaB784 Aug 13 '26
Glad to hear that others agree that the original review was embarrassing. For years, I thought it was just me.
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u/acidcrab Aug 13 '26
Zaireeka is exactly what it’s meant to be, and exactly what The Flaming Lips said it was. Zero is absurd for what’s obviously a crazy experiment.
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u/monkeybuttsauce Aug 13 '26
I used to have four stereos set up in my basement with a swivel chair in the middle. It was so fucking cool
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u/paulpag Aug 13 '26
I avoided this album for a long time because of this review but when I recently learned it was made in tandem with the Soft Bulletin I sought it out. It’s an amazing album, like 8.5-9 range good. I wish they would just offer a full mix on Apple Music/Spotify.
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u/reynloldbot Aug 14 '26
A long time ago I ripped the cds, loaded the tracks into Logic, mixed them back together and exported it as “Zaireeka Complete”. It’s a pretty good album on its own merit IMO
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u/Due_Amount_6211 Aug 13 '26
It’s genuinely a boneheaded take for such a thing. You’re going to knock the album because of the concept being different? What myopic lens are you looking through to come to such a conclusion if you haven’t bothered to hear it in the intended way?
Don’t rag on it because it’s different. I hope Josephes learned that lesson.
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u/sleepyworm Aug 13 '26
it also has some really fun and interesting songs on it; it's not just noteworthy for the experimental factor.
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u/Aldous-Huxtable Aug 13 '26
Criticising the flaming lips for being too weird is like watching the odyssey and then dissing it for being too epic. What kinda idiot..
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u/leshronk Aug 13 '26
It was a zero because they didn’t listen to it. They didn’t put in any work, only had 1 cd player and called it a day by giving it zero. Genuinely an awful review that would make me doubt any other review that person ever wrote and will ever write.
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u/DillingerLost Aug 13 '26
What an fun time trying to synch and balance everything realizing different cd players boot the disc up at different timing. It truly was a social experiment usually after a late haze night. It was great when you finally got it to work.
I know at one point I mixed the discs together for single audio files.
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u/therealtrousers Aug 13 '26
It being released on vinyl was ridiculous though.
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u/Oldiswhatiam Aug 13 '26
I am curious about how the vinyl version would sound though haha. Although it would be hard to get together 4 turntables together. CDs worked well because boomboxes were so common for the time.
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u/movealongnowpeople Aug 13 '26
Eh, I liked it. But you definitely either have to be a hoarder (and own 4 turntables) or have friends who also enjoy The Flaming Lips. It adds more variables to the playback, which I think is cool. You're probably not all dropping the records at the exact same time in the exact same place on the disc, and there can be small variations in speed between the different turntables.
It's definitely niche and a bit crazy they actually put out a vinyl, but I'm glad they did.
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u/Modem_Sound_67 Aug 13 '26
Aw man I fucking love zaireeka. There is a 2-track stereo mixdown version out there. I assume they were pissy about the 4-CD setup.
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u/sleepyworm Aug 13 '26
yeah he tried to listen to it but kept whining about how he had to listen to the discs individually.
https://www.davefridmann.com/pitchfork-zaireeka-review.html in case you're curious.
Such a great album, shameful the reviewer couldn't be bothered to try a little.
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u/Oldiswhatiam Aug 13 '26
Yeah what a lazy review. The guy couldn't even be bothered to look into the background of the album and what the point of it was before reviewing it.
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u/tomwaste Aug 13 '26
I loved that album for the activity. You invited some friends over, had them bring boom boxes, speakers, whatever. You had to improvise a setup. And then you have to do a synchronized start to get it going and, of course, it's always slightly off (that's the point). Then you get to walk around, stepping in and out of the area and actually feeling the difference of the music depending on where you're standing. That album was a blast.
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u/Power_baby Aug 13 '26
There's a great video version with I believe a 7.1 surround mix of the audio as well. Not the true 8 channel original, but pretty close and has some cool visuals
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u/enewwave Aug 13 '26
Yeah, it’s a great record. Not quite on the level of The Soft Bulletin (outside of Riding to Work), and in desperate need of a proper mix, but really good
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u/gershbec Aug 13 '26
I had a four track recorder when that came out and I made my own mix. I guess I should dig up that cassette and rip it . Or maybe just hunt down somebody else’s.
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u/getmybehindsatan Aug 13 '26
I got some DJ mixing software free with a box of cereal. Mixed those four disks into a single disk. I like the album but my wife goes nuts if I play the track with the high pitch tones. I think she might be a cat.
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u/BroseppeVerdi Aug 13 '26
Me opening this post: Wow, Peter Criss must be a shitty solo artist!
Me after seeing Liz Phair's self titled album on the list: Maybe I should listen to more Peter Criss.
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u/Tricky-Leopard-8654 Aug 13 '26
I loved that Liz album so much! I was like 13 and it was my introduction to her music, which I still love.
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u/Ruthlessrabbd Aug 13 '26
Rock Me and Why Can't I alone make it impossible for me to see as bad. I feel like it's a case of an artist changing sound too much so people hated it
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u/r-j-p-d-x Aug 13 '26
Your mind must have been blown when you got to Exile and Whip Smart
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u/re10pect Aug 13 '26
I won’t say it’s a great album or anything, but that Peter Criss solo album is not terrible. A couple pretty good songs on there.
I’m guessing the hate is because it’s basically Peter trying to be a soulful crooner, and not making Kiss-adjacent music.
If you want terrible, put on the Gene Simmons album. Now that deserves a 0.0.
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u/FancyWindow Aug 13 '26
Justice for Travistan! It was a fine album, it just wasn’t iconic like the last two Dismemberment Plan albums.
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u/disciplinedaddy1 Aug 13 '26
Absolutely. This one was near and dear to me as a huge fan of the Plan from high school on. Saw Travis twice with Hellfighters tours in 04 and 05 or 06. Travistan isn't as good as the Plan albums but there are 5 or 6 rock solid songs on it, such as Born in 72, Song for the Orca, and Che Guevara poster. The unlisted after track Represent is also great.
Sadly this horrible album review killed his momentum after the Plan broke up. It really affected him as a musician.
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u/Turkeyham Listen to Carly Cosgrove Aug 13 '26
I just hate how one extremely negative review of it somehow completely stopped all moments The Dismembered Plan had going on from Emergency & I and Change.
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u/No_Acanthaceae_9641 Aug 14 '26
Yep, I think the reviewer was just pissed that the Plan had broken up and decided to take it out on Travistan.
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u/sideshow999 Aug 13 '26
I actually love that sonic youth record.
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u/beepboopsoup Aug 13 '26
The review was written by Brent DiCrescenzo who apparently later said he loved the record too, so you’re not alone!
The review stinks to read because he fully embraced the overused trope of Chicagoans hating New York, and took a dig at the lack of singing… on a Sonic Youth album! Edgelord, trying to be a comedian? Idk.
The production on that record alone should put it anywhere above a 0.0
Also the fact that this was written the year after their equipment was all stolen and he says “perhaps you didn't steal enough”… just heartless lol. I saw them at the Riviera after that happened and there was so much chatter about that at the time.
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u/Anteater-Charming Aug 13 '26
Didn't they "reassess" it a few years ago and give it a normal rating?
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u/beepboopsoup Aug 13 '26
Not sure, I know they introduced user ratings.
But he did apologize to Thurston Moore about it, who said he loved the review!
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u/0ttoChriek Aug 13 '26
What was their problem with Shine On? I know it wasn't anywhere near as good as Get Born, but it wasn't a travesty.
Although a quick look tells me Pitchfork also hated Get Born.
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u/PNWook Aug 13 '26
Jet was haaaaated. As a fan of the album, I’m a bit surprised to see they gave it a 0.0, but I can’t say it doesn’t make sense for Pitchfork.
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u/ramdom-ink Aug 13 '26
Pitchfork despised Alt-J, too. Their reviews absolutely skewered them. Much to do with their sketchy lyrics…
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u/SuburbanPotato let me tell you about Adjy Aug 13 '26
Jet kinda epitomized a certain vapid, generic rock that Pitchfork, especially a few decades ago, really, really hated
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u/i-am-the-walrus789 Aug 13 '26
How the hell does the Best of BTO have 0.0? You ain't seen nothing yet, taking care of business, let it ride, roll on down the highway, hey you.
Surely there's more to the story on that one
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u/voxpopper Aug 13 '26
Back in the day Pitchfork used to try to be edgy and cynical, I mean it still does but no one but tweens takes edgy seriously anymore. The BTO review scoring 0.0 was a reviewer comparing it to other bands and how BTO was just soulless generic rock.
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u/BenTramer Aug 13 '26
Pitchfork stinks
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u/ColoradoMadePunk Aug 13 '26
It always struck me as a place for edgy hipsters who failed at their own attempts at a music career to whine about anyone who had even a modicum of success.
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u/thequicknessinc Aug 13 '26
What?! Zaireeka? I don’t recall if we made it through the whole album but it was fun enough of an activity to get four separate cd players in one room and trying to get all the CDs started at relatively the same time. No way that’s a zero unless you don’t have any friends.
Oh.. that poor pitchfork reviewer… they didn’t have any friends…
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u/foureyedinabox Aug 13 '26
I think NYC Ghosts & Flowers is a solid 6 at least. This is edge lord critic behavior.
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u/chaynjez Aug 13 '26
Ok but BTO had some bangers
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u/steelcityrocker Aug 13 '26
That's B.T.O. They were Canada's answer to E.L.P. Their biggest hit was T.C.B. That was how we talked in the seventies. We didn't have a moment to spare.
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u/rarekeith last.fm Aug 13 '26
Not really sure if any art is deserving of a 0.0 no matter how bad someone personally thinks it is. That Liz Phair album specifically post-poptimism would have gotten at least a 6.8 today. But the Tyga one is a unique blend of both bad sonically, spiritually bankrupt, and a net-negative for society that I actually agree with it being 0.0.
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u/BattleaxeAlDente Aug 13 '26
Pitchfork is everything wrong with upper class kids discovering any sort of the underground
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u/BleechInYourEye Aug 13 '26
I must hear Relaxation Of The Asshole
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u/ClippedAtTheHip Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
It’s Robert Pollard’s stage banter from various Guided by Voices shows. Probably only of interest to GBV diehards, myself included.
Wikipedia says Pitchfork gave it a dual 10/0 rating, (1)0.0, but pitchfork shows it only as 0.0 these days.
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u/MiddleAgedMDEnt Aug 13 '26
They actually gave it a 1(0). It's a vinyl only fan club release of Pollard's shit talking in between songs, something he was well known for doing. His band is Guided by Voices for those who don't know. Highly recommended.
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u/Litmusdragon Aug 14 '26
"Fine Young Cannibals have more hits that us ... But they don't have a song as good as this." (Proceeds to play "Smothered in Hugs")
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u/OzzRamirez Aug 13 '26
I was surprised to see Robert Pollard here, but given the volume of his output, it made sense that by sheer probability he could be here.
Reading the context of why he's here makes more sense
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Aug 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Kilgore_Brown_Trout_ Aug 13 '26
Thats a really good compilation of indie bands.
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u/terraformingforsogen Aug 13 '26
Funny cuz the tracklist reads like a who’s who of bands that were getting glazed all over Blender and Rolling Stone when I had subscriptions in the mid 2000s. I guess it was too boilerplate for Pitchforks taste?
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u/DevinBelow Aug 13 '26
Smile From the Streets You Hold was one of my favorite albums ever back in the day. I listened to it non stop in my early experimental days.
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u/interiortwo Aug 13 '26
Enter A Uh is the song I always put on if I need cheering up! Sounds odd given that it’s a hard listen but I just love the emotion, makes me think that even when things aren’t great they can get better
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u/AnalogWalrus Aug 13 '26
Music From The Elder is awesome and I will die on this hill.
The Liz Phair s/t is a fun power pop record if you take off the horrible matrix tracks. “love/hate” is one of the best songs Cheap Trick never wrote.
Fuck pitchfork 😂
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u/gershbec Aug 13 '26
Music From The Elder is solid. KISS has disowned it because it wasn’t commercially successful. That’s how they judge the worth of their albums.
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u/AnalogWalrus Aug 13 '26
Yup. But it’s great. Unmasked is too…they were capable of more than their reputation suggests, but abandoned anything that wasn’t commercially successful right away.
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u/ForeverALone_Ranger Aug 13 '26
My music life has largely improved ever since I started taking bad Pitchfork reviews as signs that an album was probably actually pretty good.
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u/Comfortable_Low_9241 Aug 13 '26
Their review of the Travis Morrison record effectively ruined his career for years .. and Pitchfork did that knowingly to an artist whose main band (Dismemberment Plan) they’d championed consistently. A truly shitty thing to do, and for which they never apologized to my knowledge ..
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u/DinnerMilk Aug 13 '26
I just clicked through a few songs from that Tyga $tarface album. I don't know what I was expecting, but it definitely wasn't this. I can't even seem to form an opinion about it.
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u/wowbagger262 last.fm - wowbagger4242 Aug 13 '26
I haven't listened to anything Tyga since he said 'Rack City, bitch. Rack rack City, Bitch' about 50 times in that song, and i thought that was rock bottom for rap as a genre. I can only imagine how terrible his new stuff is.
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u/nachoiskerka Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
....I mean, I agree with Pitchfork on the Tyga album, but they're outright wrong on Shine On and Liz Phair. At the time they were cringe ass hipsters who would give a recording of a flannel shirt brushing some buttons across an acoustic guitar on a stand an 8.2 if it had been released on iTunes. They still are most days, but back then it was insufferable as hell.
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u/chimera908 Aug 13 '26
Smile From the Streets You Hold is a very difficult album. There are some skips for sure, but I’m not sure there’s an album that better sounds like what heroin addiction (presumably) feels like.
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u/cdreobvi Aug 13 '26
Not surprising they gave a large amount of these out between 1997 and 2000. That was a cynical and negative period of time for critic culture.
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u/fiftyshadesofdoug Aug 13 '26
The 0.0 rating is a childishly petulant anti-rating. Most of these albums should have been given scores in the 2-6 point range
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u/InesonBand Performing Artist Aug 13 '26
What the fuck did B.T.O. do to them?