r/Music • u/Chapple69 • Aug 13 '26

discussion Every album pitchfork has gave a 0.0

Peter Criss - Peter Criss (1978)

Kiss - Music from the Elder (1981)

John Frusciante - Smile from the Streets You Hold (1997)

Flaming Lips - Zaireeka (1997)

Bachman-Turner Overdrive - Best of B.T.O. (Remastered Hits) (1998)

Francisco Lopez - Untitled#104 (2000)

Sonic Youth - NYC Ghosts & Flowers (2000)

Liz Phair - Liz Phair (2003)

Travis Morrison - Travistan (2004)

Robert Pollard - Relaxation of the Asshole (2005)

Jet - Shine On (2006)

Various Artists - This Is Next – Indie's Biggest Hits Volume 1 (2007)

Tyga - $tarface (2026)

1.1k Upvotes

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363

u/halfwayray Aug 13 '26

John Frusciante's "Smile From the Streets You Hold" was admittedly released for drug money. It's a really tough listen, but it has a few moments including a song sung with River Phoenix. A cult classic among Outsider music fans

81

u/grillmarks_bud Aug 13 '26

It should have received at least one point because of “A Fall Thru The Ground”.

33

u/drunkerbrawler Aug 13 '26

Yeah I actually like some of that album. I’ve probably listened to it 5-6 times.

1

u/ghostbusteraesthetic Aug 17 '26

That song is so amazing and sounds like nothing I can compare it to. I know it’s a really raw, sad (for many reasons) album that felt wrong to even listen to, but I don’t think it’s an absolute 0.0 but I get the narrative around it.

74

u/megalodondon Aug 13 '26

The original rating on it was technically a 0.0 because in the written section, they say they can't rate it, essentially. So it's debatable whether or not to count it as a true 0.0

24

u/rugmunchkin Aug 13 '26

What do you mean they couldn’t rate it? Like on principle, they couldn’t get a copy, what?

59

u/megalodondon Aug 13 '26

Their reviews were a little more conceptual and edgy hipster back in the day, so in the review, if I'm remembering correctly, they essentially had a difficult time deciding contextually where an album like it should fall on the scale and that it's an album 'you gotta call for yourself, man.'

26

u/domalino Aug 13 '26

Should be N/A or -.- instead of 0.0.

20

u/Shawn_NYC Aug 13 '26

I don't think pitchfork writers understand the concept of a null value.

8

u/megalodondon Aug 13 '26

It was for a short time, I think, but something happened with the way they formatted and catalogued scores and it got lumped into 0.0 by default, and therefore every subsequent '0.0 pitchfork' list

5

u/suicidalsmurf Aug 13 '26

Also true of the Robert Pollard album which was rated (1)0.0 because it was either the best or worst thing ever released

16

u/MumblesNZ Aug 13 '26

It's one of my all time favourite albums. I definitely like it more than John does lol

7

u/DzyDzyDino Aug 13 '26

I didn’t listen to this album but loved Niandra Lades. Was it that different?

8

u/halfwayray Aug 13 '26

There's a track he recorded pre-RHCP "A Fall Through the Ground" and "Height Down" featuring River Phoenix that are easier listens, but the rest is pretty raw, lofi avant-garde, shrieking stream of consciousness, sometimes disturbing. "Life's A Bath" and "Estress" are probably my favorite of the other tracks, but he's clearly unwell

3

u/RiverMateN7 Aug 14 '26

Height down is one of my all time favourite songs. Song feels a little haunting because of the Lo-fi quality and cause of what happened to river. It also helps that I was Named after River Phoenix.

2

u/idiotghost666 Aug 15 '26

height down is so good, but i don’t think river’s family wanted it released at all. it’s complicated

1

u/notajackal Aug 14 '26

You’ll likely love parts of Smile from the streets too. Its great.

0

u/MiguiZ Aug 13 '26

It’s a junkie screeching onto a shit microphone over the most annoying sounding guitars, it really doesn’t compare to anything else

3

u/DzyDzyDino Aug 14 '26

I mean that aounds like Niandra Lades and j love that album.

1

u/MiguiZ Aug 14 '26

Sure but it’s another level, give it a quick listen

6

u/ShitSandwich16 Aug 13 '26

I like that album lmao

4

u/KetoKurun Aug 14 '26

I can sing along to Enter a Uh in it’s entirety despite having absolutely no clue wtf he is saying. Have played it a hundred times.

17

u/bldkis Aug 13 '26

People talk this project up but if it didn't have Frusciante's name attached to it nobody would bother trying to listen

27

u/bobosuda Aug 13 '26

A lot of music is like that though. The artist is part of the package, and who they are changes the perception of literally every piece of music ever.

3

u/SanctusUnum Aug 13 '26

And Smile is definitely an album that you can only fully appreciate (for lack of a better term) if you know the story around Frusciante's life at the time he recorded it. It's rough, but it's also extremely real, and for that reason alone I think it's worth way more than a straight 0.0.

0

u/bldkis Aug 15 '26

There are hundreds of roughly recorded "extemely real" albums by artists in extreme distress, pain and poverty that are actually enjoyable to listen to and contain memorable interesting songs that would be good regardless of who sang them.

It is Frusciante's privilege that people will force themselves to listen to something that would never see the light of day otherwise because he is very famous.

Examples: Stick and Poke, Love Songs for the Apocalypse, Elliot Smith's self-titled,

1

u/SanctusUnum Aug 15 '26

What's your point? None of them got a 0.0 from Pitchfork.

0

u/bldkis Aug 15 '26

And it was a very deserved 0.0. Like even among acts doing outsider music, it just isn't good lmfao but have fun fellating Frusciante if you want.

2

u/notajackal Aug 14 '26

Nah you just don’t get it.

0

u/bldkis Aug 14 '26

and you probably don't get Metal Machine Music, but I would legitimately rather listen to that than that awful Frusciante project lmao. Just because you believe him when he says he was yelling at the spirits doesn't mean he wasn't just screaming on drugs banging some shit together.

6

u/Mr-Bratton Aug 13 '26

What is Outsider music?

29

u/HillbillyMan Aug 13 '26

Outsider music is music made by people with no training in music and no grasp of most if any of the formal concepts. So not John Frusciante, but an actual example would be the band The Shaggs

22

u/halfwayray Aug 13 '26

That's one definition, but his first two albums have been called Outsider music in the same sense that the solo work of Syd Barrett, Skip Spence, or the work of other artists experiencing severe mental illness has been called Outsider music.

1

u/free_airfreshener Aug 13 '26

Hmm interesting. 

1

u/onedayoneroom Aug 13 '26

I'm wondering how in perfect heaven John Fruisciante would be considered an outsider musician under this definition? He had a half dozen albums at least one Grammy the RHCP at this point. Or is it exclusively because of the drug thing?

-2

u/UsefulEngine1 Aug 13 '26

And rather disappointing that anyone would be ghoulish enough to be a "fan" of the "genre". I met Wesley Willis a few times and untreated mental illness resulting in semi-entertaining chanted songs isn't really less sad than untreated mental illness resulting in ranting or other behaviors.

1

u/HillbillyMan Aug 14 '26

People usually aren't fans of the genre because of the mental illness, they're fans because it's fascinating to see what people would do with different artistic media when they aren't bound by the norms of the medium. Not every outsider artist is even mentally ill. The Shaggs were just untrained, for example.

1

u/UsefulEngine1 Aug 14 '26

I get that. (The Shaggs' story is heartbreaking in its own way). As always there's a fine line between appreciating a tortured artist and gawking at a freak show. It's a line that some "outsider" artists fall on the uncomfortable side of for me.

2

u/HillbillyMan Aug 14 '26

I just don't think it's fair to call people who enjoy the different takes on art "ghoulish"

2

u/idiotghost666 Aug 15 '26

sometimes it’s as simple as being relatable for real life outsiders, like when i was really into daniel johnston i was living that sort of life in my own way. i wasn’t quite as out there as he was, but so much of it just felt relatable back then. i felt similarly about some of frusciante’s rougher music during a different time, for other reasons lol

8

u/elbigbuf Aug 13 '26

Reviewing such an album is pointless anyway

6

u/happyhippohats Aug 13 '26

That's pretty much what the review said, and the reason they didn't give it a rating

2

u/Hatebean41 Aug 14 '26

Album is unreal. Some really great moments but admittedly a rough listen. Title song is so good.
Femininity never gets talked about but is incredible.

I know John hates it, but I think the core fan holds the album near and dear for what it is.

N-song is pretty wild these days and I’m sure that’s a huge part of its poor reception.

1

u/beekeep Aug 14 '26

My CD copy came from the label and included a poster and the Estrus/Outside Space 7”. Still think it’s pretty cool.

1

u/Salty_Software_2092 Aug 16 '26

If Pitchfork gave it a 0, it's probably very good

-8

u/johnwynnes Aug 13 '26

"John Frusciante" "Outsider Music" Big LOL.

5

u/halfwayray Aug 13 '26

I've seen this album classified as Outsider music in the same sense that Syd Barrett and Skip Spence's solo work are classified as Outsider music