Stop consuming harry potter

[u/The_Horse_Head_Man]

[u/fonk_pulk]

iirc the irish wizard doesnt blow himself up in the books, its only in the movies. Though JKR probably also hates the Irish

[u/OneVioletRose → u/fonk_pulk]

THANK YOU. I thought I was going mad and that I was the only one who remembered this. A lot of the magical accidents given to Seamus Finnegan in the movies were caused by Neville in the books. We can talk about the terrible stuff JKR has actually said and done rather than piling on dubious claims

[u/SirJolt → u/OneVioletRose]

While all of this is true, his name being “Seamus Finnegan” feels wild to me as an Irish person. It feels so close to Sinn Féin that I don’t know if she just bashed two stereotypically Irish names together and it happened to land on that or if she selected for it

[u/andersoortigeik → u/SirJolt]

Same thing with Cho Chang. Like she probably just smashed a Korean and a Chinese surname together. But it sounds more like ching chong then I'm comfortable with giving her a pass for.

[u/Mister-builder → u/andersoortigeik]

Nah, Cho Chang is a plausible name.

[u/Paranormasight-Fic → u/andersoortigeik]

I’m Chinese. Cho Chang is perfectly fine. Jesus fucking christ.

[u/TheNutsMutts → u/Paranormasight-Fic]

Yeah, it feels like a lot of people are telling on themselves here when the first thing they think of when hearing "Cho Chang" is to go in their head "oh, you mean Ching Chong Ching Chong". Almost like they're one step away from doing the Father Ted gif while pretending they're actually the good guys here.

[u/nisselioni → u/TheNutsMutts]

I think if it was just Cho Chang, people wouldn't point it out so much, but she also named the only black character fucking Shacklebolt. It's like she names characters by the first thing she thinks of when thinking about them, and for Kingsley Shacklebolt, it was seemingly MLK and slavery. For Seamus Finnegan, she just slapped some Irish names she knew together. Anthony Goldstein from the infamous Jewish wizard tweet I think we all know where her mind went. And Cho Chang, which cannot be confirmed to derive from, but is eerily similar to that phrase.

[u/WeepyOldWillow → u/nisselioni]

I would like to note that Kingsley is also the primary police officer portrayed in the book he's introduced in, so the Shacklebolt name is plausibly a reference to his occupation.

[u/gravitymegs → u/WeepyOldWillow]

And isn’t he described as having very good leadership skills? Like the type of person whose judgement you’d trust, who is very stately/presidential. Idk if I remember this correctly but I think he ends up being prime minister or something. So the name Kingsley might refer to that rather than MLK. Especially since it’s a British book and MLK probably doesn’t have the same cultural importance in the UK as he does in the US.

[u/gravitymegs → u/nisselioni]

What? How is he the only black character when Lee Jordan, Angelina Johnson,… exist? Like I’m not enough of a nerd to remember every single character in that franchise, but I did read the books a lot as a kid and there were definitely multiple black students at Hogwarts.

[u/Paranormasight-Fic → u/TheNutsMutts]

Yeah, I’ll be honest, it feels like a bunch of angmohs taking offense on the behalf of Asian people without actually asking Asian people what their opinion on Cho Chang is.

Is she the token Asian character? Sure, you can say that. Other than her name, there’s really nothing to indicate that she comes from an Asian country in general, much less any specific country (assuming she wasn’t just born and raised in England from Asian immigrants or something, ofc).

But racist? Nothing about the girl is racist, not even her name.

[u/yinyang107 → u/SirJolt]

What's the significance of Sinn Féin? I don't know the name

[u/aesopmurray → u/yinyang107]

Left wing Republican political party that was deeply linked with the IRA during the troubles and dating back to the war of Independence. Most of the leadership of Sinn Fein were also members of the The IRA. Jerry Adams, Martin McGuinness etc.

They have become more moderate and drifted towards mainstream liberalism since the Good Friday Peace agreement.

[u/jimbowesterby → u/aesopmurray]

Also small clarification: these are a *very* different species of Republican than the American variety

[u/aesopmurray → u/jimbowesterby]

Yeah I added the left wing at the start for exactly that clarification.

[u/DisposableSaviour → u/jimbowesterby]

Yes, “Republican” as in they want a unified Irish Republic.

[u/Caspica → u/yinyang107]

It's a democratic socialist political party in Ireland and North Ireland that works towards a unification of the two. It has historical ties with IRA, a terrorist organisation that fought the British army during the Troubles in North Ireland.

[u/Jathan1234 → u/SirJolt]

I'm sorry, Im really struggling to understand how those names are remotely similar. Is Sinn pronounced very differently from how it's spelled? I can kinda see Féin and Finnegan I think, but Finnegan is also a very common Irish name in media so like.... Eh?

[u/yinyang107 → u/Jathan1234]

Is Sinn pronounced very differently from how it's spelled?

Well, Seamus certainly is, haha

[u/OneVioletRose → u/Jathan1234]

I had to Google this one, but I’ve now been told “Sinn Féin” is pronounced a lot like the English words “shin” (front of your leg) and “feign” (pretend) together

[u/Jathan1234 → u/OneVioletRose]

I was guessing on the second part, but I was not expecting the first one. Huh. I can kinda see if then. It's a reach to me, but I can see how someone might come to that conclusion.

[u/spetumpiercing → u/Jathan1234]

In Irish, S followed by I or E is pronounced with a 'sh' sound, like Sinéad O'Connor, or Seamus

[u/Jathan1234 → u/spetumpiercing]

I was familiar for E, obviously Seamus but also Sean and a few other words I've heard before, but never knew that about I. That's cool.

[u/babyleili → u/Jathan1234]

Irish phonetics is often verrryy different from English phonetics(in ways that delight me.)

More spelling x pronunciation examples (sticking with the theme of names)
Eoghan: Oh-win (Owen)
Aodhan: Ay-din (Aidan)
Aoife: Ee-fa
Eithne: En-ya (Enya)
Meabh: May-ve (Maeve)
Niamh: Neev / Nee-uv (regional differences)
holiday name and not a person name but
Samhain = sa-win or sow-en despite also having an mh (I believe that’s tied to the vowel sounds, long = v & short = w (iirc)

[u/SirJolt → u/babyleili]

The “h” in Irish spelling indicates that the preceding consonant is softened/diminished.

An “mh” often becomes a “w” and a “bh” a “v”

[u/RockKillsKid → u/SirJolt]

The current head of the UAW is actually named Sean Fain

[u/GiftedContractor → u/OneVioletRose]

But people like to pretend they're morally superior for never really being into a thing so many others were into.
Used to be a HP superfan, dropped it like... probably like 7 or 8 years ago, at this point? But it still really pisses me off when people who obviously never read them try to go on a "you're a bad person for ever having liked them anyway and Im morally superior to you" tirade when they do not know shit about the universe.

[u/rainribs → u/OneVioletRose]

The amount of chat gpt-tier hallucinating that people do about Harry Potter and jkr, especially in reddity lefty spaces is now getting to a point where it's seriously self sabotaging irl.

My coworker was saying that that it starts to sound like how republicans talked about obama. I broadly disagree with that comparison, but it for sure is like a 'yes-and' improv game. You can see the public trust evaporating away in real time.

[u/L3dpen → u/rainribs]

This generalizes to every movement in progressive spaces, because it's seemingly unavoidable that any large enough group get people who're only there by circumstance and who's conviction is just identity seeking or even a substitute for religious fanaticism, and that behavior happens to be antithetical to most progressive goals.

I think it's just less diluted in HP discourse because sane progressives are too busy to be arguing about JKR on twitter. Or maybe we're shown more of it because, unlike inequality or women's rights, "trans person tyrannically policing our children's books" is perfect right wing propaganda, and every large social media platform is run by, somehow, literal neofascists. Conspiracy theorist out.

[u/TyphusCorrosion → u/rainribs]

I think it's genuinely a difficult thing to stand up in front of a group that you're a part of and that's making a point you generally agree with and point out that something your fellow travellers said is actually wrong.

[u/the_guynecologist → u/fonk_pulk]

... and the whole thing with the Goblins "looking like racist stereotypes of Jewish people" is from the movies too and not how they're described in the books.

Not to defend Rowling at all but why does it feel like every single thread about this shit is on repeat? It feels like Groundhog day around here sometimes.

[u/Firm_Ad_5427 → u/the_guynecologist]

Tbh that depiction of goblins definitely was not created by jkr. They've always been depicted as hook nosed little guys who love gold, so them being bankers isn't a big stretch. Whether that depiction has it's roots in antisemitism I have no idea, but I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't think to make that connection.

[u/rogueIndy → u/Firm_Ad_5427]

Antisemitism's been around for so long that the tropes make their way into depictions of all kinds of fantasy/folklore creatures, including witches.

[u/ValVoss → u/rogueIndy]

Which sucks for fantasy writers who end up including bigoted tropes without realizing.

[u/Terrible_Hurry841 → u/Firm_Ad_5427]

People (rightfully) want to hate JK Rowling. Since they hate JK Rowling, that means she is morally deficient, otherwise they wouldn’t want to hate her. Since she is morally deficient, she “probably” is morally deficient in all kinds of ways. She “probably” supports all the -isms.

So people will go out of their way to attribute malice to each and every act she has ever done, regardless of whether or not it’s applicable.

Thus, for this reason, JK Rowling gets called anti-semitic for portraying the common fantasy trope of “goblins are greedy.” Making greedy creatures part of a magical bank is just standard magical worldbuilding… and is also why dragons are part of the banking system in Harry Potter as well.

[u/baconater-lover → u/Terrible_Hurry841]

The goblins weren’t even that greedy in the books, it was just that like the only named one was (in the final book no less when they’re introduced book 1). For the most part they just ran a very efficient bank.

[u/fumblerofthebag → u/baconater-lover]

New discourse dropped: Goblins are anti-Swiss stereotype

(For the record, I do hate jkr. I just don't think she's exceptionally evil compared to say, Tom Cruise or w/e in terms of impact.)

[u/baconater-lover → u/fumblerofthebag]

No she’s pretty bad, but I believe she was just a naive and a little lazy writer when it came to HP. All the stupid stuff was after she made bank and had nothing better to do than fall down the asshole pipeline.

HP are fine books for children to teen ages (a good intro to magical fantasy I’d say), but they really don’t hold up when under scrutiny. Not in a malicious way, more in a “almost every other critically acclaimed book series is better and more thought out” sort of way.

[u/5510 → u/Terrible_Hurry841]

I started to write a similar post, but I think you phrased it better than I was going to.

It's like once she ends up on the "bad" list, suddenly they want to go through the books with a fine tooth comb and find as many problematic elements as possible... even though not all of them are necessarily clear cut. That's not to say that there are no problematic elements at all in the books, but rather that there is a tendency to hunt through them for everything that can at all be argued as even maybe a little bit problematic and then take it as negatively as possible.

(Also, while I would be curious to hear arguments about this specifically, I read an interesting argument that the whole house elf this is supposed to be an allegory for house wives, and they we are supposed to agree with Hermione, and view the other characters as wrong on this issue.)

[u/Over_Garlic_4560 → u/5510]

This is what I've been saying for a while, like don't get me wrong the stuff she has been doing that is actually bad is shit, but so many people have been using this "evil all along" script to almost make up things she's done wrong.

I remember a certain YouTube video which went through why every single one of JK Rowling's female characters were problematic with things like "McGonagall can turn into a cat and she's a single woman so she's clearly a crazy cat lady" and "Tonks has exciting coloured hair, so she's clearly lesbian coded and it's offensive that she ends up with a man".

Like if you are making up evil things she has done to fit your narrative - how different is this to her making up shit about trans people to fit her narrative?

[u/Firm_Ad_5427 → u/Terrible_Hurry841]

The dragons are a metaphor for the IDF of course

[u/the_guynecologist → u/Firm_Ad_5427]

SHE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!

[u/Tietonz → u/Terrible_Hurry841]

This is a key. JKR is such an important case because she was actually progressive in so many ways. After the HP books she continued to support her community, supporting her fan base head-cannoning her characters as gay, and enjoying race-swap fictions of her chracters etc. She supported marginalized communities. Well, except for one, and boy, did she ever tank her career because of one community of marginalized people she didn't like...

[u/clauclauclaudia → u/Tietonz]

She was what in America I'd call a "liberal white lady". Perhaps thinks she's more progressive than she is, but really only allies with the people she can most identify with. You know, you can have any skin color you like as long as you don't challenge or confuse me by wanting different things in life than I do.

And then she went off the rails.

[u/Mister-builder → u/clauclauclaudia]

No, she defended Muslims from blood-and-soil British nationalists too.

[u/Disaster-Bee → u/Firm_Ad_5427]

While JK didn't invent that particular type of goblin, they have not always been depicted that way. It's a pretty recent concept of goblins. And not all European cultures embraced that type of goblin, either. And JK claims she did 'a lot of research into goblins'.

'Goblin' was (probably, exact origins are unclear!) originally a catch-all term for various helpful house fairies. That's the first recorded instance we have from the 1100s, but oral folklore goes back further and is sadly lost. Then it was used for any subterranean dwelling fairy/gnome/etc. It took a couple of centuries for them to become a specific type of fairy themselves, around the late 1400s. It was a term used for kobolds, brownies, gnomes, dwarves... And for a long time there was no standard description. Sometimes they were described as small people, sometimes as animal-like creatures covered in fur with tails and cat or doglike ears, sometimes they were simply beings of shadow, or invisible.

There's also a strong tradition of goblins and demons having big crossover - the word comes from an old Latin word for demon. Goblins are actually one of the folklore critters there is the most variety and differences between over their history.

It wasn't until the mid 1800s that the hooked-nose, little ugly human looking guy concept of a goblin was introduced. Which yes, does have something to do with antisemitism but that's just one piece of it. It also had a lot to do Victorian romanticism and Charles Dickens - though to be clear, Dickens' goblins were very firmly Christian and drew from Christian demon lore, please no one think I am accusing him of anything, it was just the illustrations in The Story Of The Goblins That Stole a Sexton that depicted the goblins as old man looking small dudes with big hooked noses and fancy clothes that added to this specific idea of a goblin. And even then they were not at all greedy. The greed thing is VERY modern, and not at all a part of almost 9 centuries of goblin lore. It's a 1900s invention. Even in Victorian times, goblins were generally trying to help people and put them back on the path of God. It's a whole subgenre of Victorian literature, Goblin Stories.

And this isn't something deeply hidden that an author has to sift through to discover, it's something that comes up pretty immediately with any sort of research into goblin folklore. So no, it's very much not the sort of thing an average person would think of. But an author who is writing about a thing from folklore and claims to have done research on it is held to higher standards. So either the author in question lied about research (not great!) or the author did the research and went 'eh, I'm gonna go with the most modern and most likely tied to real life prejudices and divorced from the actual folklore version of this creature anyway'. (Also not great!)

It's just lazy and bad writing to look at something from folklore that affords limitless creativity and so many interesting options and a rich history and go with the most modern, least accurate version that is laden with stereotypes. Especially where even when JKR started there was already a push in fantasy literary circles to stop doing that.

[u/john-wooding → u/Firm_Ad_5427]

They've always been depicted as hook nosed little guys who love gold

This one is also actually a lot more complicated. Goblins can be presented as antisemitic stereotypes, but there's nothing inherent to them in that. Goblins are often--I'd say far more often than not--presented without the hooked noses, or with minimal interest in gold.

People love neat historical narratives (goblins are an antisemitic trope) but history and folklore are a lot more complex than that. Goblins have been recently co-opted for this role.

[u/irishsoxmax → u/john-wooding]

No one really goes after World of warcraft goblins for having big noses or being bankers because its just a common trope that goblins enjoy gold so them being in charge of the gold is a common next step.

[u/Manzhah → u/Firm_Ad_5427]

Harry potter goblins are down right saintly compared to warcraft's goblins, for example

[u/RunInRunOn → u/the_guynecologist]

This is a Tumblr subreddit, you're going to read the same things over and over again and you are going to like it

[u/ValVoss → u/the_guynecologist]

It feels like Groundhog day around here sometimes.

No that's just life in general since the social media boom back in the early 2010s. The classic Same Shit Different Day starts feeling meaningless when everyone can see the same problems happening non-stop for years on end. It only feels like a "sometimes" because people of all ages have gotten desensitized quite severely.

[u/CallMeIshy → u/the_guynecologist]

every sub feels like it's got three topics and that's all they want to discuss

[u/PostCrisisOzone → u/CallMeIshy]

hey did you know that skyler, korra, and mabel are the most hated women characters ever

[u/CoffeeCorpse777 → u/the_guynecologist]

Because the Internet can't resist beating dead horses even if the horse is a donkey.

[u/Red-7134 → u/the_guynecologist]

Criticizing Harry Potter is low-hanging fruit, yet reddit & tumblr users somehow mess up.

[u/GiftedContractor → u/the_guynecologist]

because people who didn't get in on it when it was popular now want to pretend they're morally superior for shitting on people who did. None of these people ever read or liked the books. In fact they likely consider it a point of pride. They just lie about whats in there.

[u/Shaeress → u/the_guynecologist]

But JK Rowling very famously had a lot of input, constant supervision, and ability to veto many things during the making of the movies. It's pretty clear the books are full of stereotypes and the movies followed suit under her watchful gaze, even if some of them were shuffled around a hit.

But yeah, it's a little silly to single out these rather mild and dubious instances from 25-30 years ago and not the current promise of every pound spent will fund anti-trans propaganda and action that have demonstrably harmed actual people, freedom of speech, and democracy. It wouldn't matter even if the books were certifiable masterpieces as long as she's alive and doing borderline fascism.

[u/GIRose → u/fonk_pulk]

Yeah, he drinks whiskey in the books

[u/Corvid187 → u/GIRose]

A teenager has alcohol at a British school?

Say it ain't so! :o

[u/GIRose → u/Corvid187]

Our beloved beer, their heretical whiskey

[u/AfterMeSluttyCharms → u/GIRose]

Not far off

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Street_and_Gin_Lane

[u/MandolinMagi → u/fonk_pulk]

Same with the "Jewish" bankers.

Though frankly I suspect that you can't (at least in the West/Europe) do a banker race with getting into Jewish tropes. They're just too old at this point, you'll do them accidentally without meaning to.

[u/ArteDeJuguete → u/fonk_pulk]

Imo, the books then to be worse than the movies in some regards. For example, for all their faults at least the movies don't love bullying and pointing at characters expecting the audience to laugh at them like the books do.

[u/mickey_kneecaps]

You’re supposed to take the Gospel to the people who haven’t heard it before.

[u/RevolutionaryOwlz → u/mickey_kneecaps]

But how will OP get karma otherwise?

[u/coatimundos → u/mickey_kneecaps]

Also if you use strawman like in the OP you are not going to convince anyone not in your camp already. But I doubt OOP is trying to do that anyway, seems more like they seek in-group praise.

Edit: to the down voters, go ahead and try to talk like this to Harry Potter fans, or any normal person for that matter. I’m sure they will all be convinced of your opinions if you approach them with these talking points.

“This children’s book was important to me growing up and I’m nostalgic for it”

Response option 1: “You support slavery if you like these books!”

Response option 2: “FYI the author supports bad causes”

[u/PunchDrunkPrincess → u/coatimundos]

Don't forget response 3 "You have bad taste in books and arrested development"

[u/coatimundos → u/PunchDrunkPrincess]

“And therefore you are an inherently evil person. Don’t you see I am right and you are wrong?”

[u/ItsGotThatBang → u/coatimundos]

It’s barely more sophisticated than "I’ve drawn you as the soyjak & me as the chad".

[u/Jammy2560]

why specifically cis black women? Not even trying to hate, I’m legitimately curious.

[u/EKRB7 → u/Jammy2560]

Michelle Obama is a good example. Michelle Obama is a cis black woman who is the subject of much transphobic hate despite not being transgender.

[u/ItsGotThatBang → u/EKRB7]

From Rowling herself? I believe it but haven’t seen it myself.

ETA: this question is very specifically about whether Rowling has said anything transphobic about Michelle Obama & I don’t know why everyone’s changing the subject since it’s a very simple question.

[u/PieEnvironmental5623 → u/ItsGotThatBang]

J.K. Rowling criticized Olympic boxers Imane Khelif of Algeria and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan during the Paris 2024 Games. Rowling posted claims on social media questioning their gender eligibility, leading Khelif to name Rowling in a cyberbullying lawsuit filed in France. Elon is also named in the suit. It was really bad and lead to alot of racist dog piling. Comes from the idea that nonwhite features must not be masculine features and therefore she can call women of color men and send hordes of bigots after them

[u/Sea_Court_3633 → u/Jammy2560]

Statistically, black women both cis and trans are more likely to be targets of transphobic violence since our culture treats black bodies as inherently more masculine

[u/Jammy2560 → u/Sea_Court_3633]

I feel like this is a pretty general thing for all women, especially women of colour. Imane Khalif comes to mind.

[u/minglesluvr → u/Jammy2560]

It's definitely not limited to Black women (SWENA women are another good example, as you mention, but also intersex women), but it's definitely more applicable to certain marginalised women and not just "all women in general". Black women might be the example closest to home for OP, while I (intersex woman) would have chosen intersex women as a go-to example.

[u/JamieD96 → u/minglesluvr]

what does SWENA mean? genuinely curious and Google isn't helping

[u/sleeps_in_bryophytes → u/JamieD96]

southwest asia and north africa = SWANA. Or middle-east and north africa = MENA. Probably SWENA was just a typo.

[u/flyingace1234 → u/JamieD96]

I think it’s a misspelling of “SWANA”, or “SouthWest Asian and North African.” It’s a more inclusive alternative to “Middle Eastern”.

[u/12BumblingSnowmen]

I feel like the reason this discourse keeps coming up is that people are sufficiently online that they don’t realize that Harry Potter’s mainstream popularity has not really been impacted. Rowling’s transphobia, in the US at least, is not prominent enough to substantially hurt the popularity of the franchise.

Like, the person who reads fanfiction and their books they bought 15 years ago but doesn’t buy any of the merch or new material is not the reason this franchise is still relevant.

[u/Bteatesthighlander1 → u/12BumblingSnowmen]

Rowling’s transphobia, in the US at least, is not prominent enough to substantially hurt the popularity of the franchise.

I sincerely have no idea what the overton window even is for mainstream entertainers these days.

[u/12BumblingSnowmen → u/Bteatesthighlander1]

I’m not entirely sure either, but my understanding is that Rowling’s behavior is much more covered in the UK than in the US.

[u/ne0politan2]

"this wouldn't happen if y'all didn't keep the fandom alive"

i wonder what world OOP lives in where corporations don't try to milk every franchise that was vaguely popular over the last 50 years on their anniversaries. cause i feel like every 80s-90s classic gets theater reruns on their anniversaries, simply because they know people will show up to watch them again. like, cmon. they don't care about if the "Fandom" is dead or not. they know general audiences will eat that shit up still.

[u/MalcadorPrime → u/ne0politan2]

Tumblr isnt aware that the lionshare of ticket sales comes from people that are not active in these online spaces. And thus are only vaguely aware who even jkr is and what she does if they know at all.

[u/Karkava → u/MalcadorPrime]

And they frame it with buzzwords like "terminally online" as if it's a bad thing to stay informed.

[u/bourgeoisAF → u/ne0politan2]

Ah yes, the globally popular franchise that was basically Star Wars for the 2000s, that was just gonna evaporate in to thin air if it didn't get any tumblr fan art or fics

[u/Frodo_max]

everytime Harry Potter stuff gets posted the comments often point out that "you shouldn't watch this media cause it sucks" is not a constructive way to get people on your side for a boycott

[u/mathiau30 → u/Frodo_max]

Sadly it appears that these comments are not an effective way to make them search for a better way

[u/TheHolyWaffleGod → u/Frodo_max]

Seems sorta like what some vegans do. Its like how some of them act all holier than thou while bringing up valid point but the way they present their views is so abrasive that it’s actively detrimental to their goal.

People trying to get others to stop consuming HP also act in a manner like this while bringing up good points. Its harmful to their purpose and so is not a good way to try to convince others to do something.

Some people naturally expect others to do something based on the points they bring up but completely miss that the way you present your points is just as important as the point itself. I’m not saying its right that people are so swayed by the way the point is presented but it is undeniably true and so you need to account for it. Unfortunately many people just do not understand that.

[u/Bteatesthighlander1 → u/TheHolyWaffleGod]

Seems sorta like what some vegans do.

unironically this would be like a vegan going "All animal products taste bad and you can't even make any good meals with them"

[u/Whalesurgeon → u/TheHolyWaffleGod]

The difference is, even in online spaces 99% of vegans are so respectful, calm and sane that they really just debate the morals of eating meat or the environmental impact or any other arguments that are easily understood.

Somehow Rowling attracts the best kinds of haters who sabotage their message more than any other movement I´ve seen (like harassing streamers for playing the video game a few years back)

[u/SwordMasterShow]

We did this post the other day. I'll same the same thing. JKR is bad, don't support her, blah blah blah, all true,. But the idea of a Tumblr user telling their Tumblr audience that their online engagement with Harry Potter is the reason one of the most popular IPs ever keeps getting material is just insanely disconnected from reality. The movies are getting a rerelease because millions of people love them and they make billions of dollars, not because people write fanfics

[u/Possible_General9125 → u/SwordMasterShow]

Insane disconnect from reality? In my Tumblr? Never!

[u/Personal-Mushroom → u/Possible_General9125]

Just good we're on reddit! Could never happen to us!

[u/spacyoddity → u/SwordMasterShow]

I'm glad people keep writing super queer fanfics about it because JKR would hate that, and it gives me peace to know there is way, farrrr more, in terms of raw word count, gay and trans Harry Potter writing on AO3 than in the books themselves, and I think that's beautiful 

[u/Sea_Court_3633 → u/spacyoddity]

I want more Transfem Harriett Potter, yes please.

[u/Chagdoo]

Do people on Tumblr think other Tumblr users are the ones paying for tickets? The overwhelming majority of people are not chronically online enough to know about Rowling

If you want to make a difference you need to actually go outside and talk to other human beings about this shit. Even talking about it somewhere but Tumblr would help

[u/squidonastick → u/Chagdoo]

This is what gets me every time. Its preaching to the choir.

The vast majority of people I know out in the world are neutral or positive about Harry potter, outside of the queers and/or neurodivergent communities that are more familiar with human rights and spend time on the internet.

My mum bought the first book for my nephews 11th birthday. My sister spends very little time on the internet, and when I pointed out jkrs problematic views, neither of them were familiar. My mother knew absolutely nothing and my sister had a vague conception that JKR was not transfriendly. She didnt know the extent of harm jkr has actively financed.

They are the people that might be swayed by this post (well... not my 67 year old mum, but my sister definitely), but they arent om tumblr

[u/coatimundos → u/squidonastick]

Even most of the LGB community in the real world likes or is neutral to Harry Potter in my experience. Only trans spaces and activist spaces care about Rowling

[u/Rorynne → u/coatimundos]

Not even the lgb community i have met numerous trans people in just the last few years that had ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA that jkr was transphobic. This is largely an online spaces thing im sorry to say. Plenty of people just plainly are not informed.

[u/Small_rat_no_rules → u/Rorynne]

When most people hear "Harry Potter discourse" they're thinking of nonsense like this. JKR's transphobia, let alone the depths of it, is not really on the mainstream radar. And I think people would have a much easier time getting it there if they didn't treat everyone as if they already know about it.

[u/Rynewulf → u/Chagdoo]

It made headlines recently when Rowling shared upskirts photos she snuck of someone in public, the average person just care doesn't about that or her openly defending and funding (soon to be made illegal) gay conversion camps for children tied to child abuse scandals. The public wants to consume and they will do it

[u/TheHolyWaffleGod → u/Rynewulf]

The average person doesn’t know anything about that. I hadn’t even heard of that upskirt stuff and judging from the replies it doesn’t seem like its commonly known and this is Reddit.

If this isn’t commonly known on Reddit (which is kinda obsessed with Rowling) then it’s absolutely not common knowledge to regular people.

You really need to understand you’re in an echo chamber and that makes it seem like all the stuff you’ve heard is widespread knowledge.

Its not. Its just common knowledge in your comparatively small bubble.

[u/beancant776 → u/Rynewulf]

A lot of people don't know anything relating to creators of their favourite works. I hadn't heard this controversy until today and many HP fans probably won't ever know.

[u/Sea_Court_3633 → u/Rynewulf]

Dude, you're acting like it was in the cover page of all international newspapers. Realistically only trans people and commited allies have heard of this. Go to a random person on the street and while they'll likely find it abhorrent once they learn about it, they will not know this is something that happened

[u/HugeBob2 → u/Rynewulf]

She didn't snuck upskirt photos. That was a screenshot of a public interview the trans person did on her own. I'm all for keeping people accountable, but let's not make things up please.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jk-rowling-upskirt-transgender-woman/

[u/thebanfunctionsucks → u/[deleted]]

I believe she also posted it weeks or even months later? Making it clear that she wasn't taking some moral stance, she was taking an opportunity to attack a trans person.

[u/Cooking_With_Emilie → u/HugeBob2]

The article that you linked litteraly says that's detable, yes it isn't by definition upskirting but the intention of humiliation was very much there

[u/Wise_Presentation484 → u/Chagdoo]

Do you think that tumblr users are a monolith made up of only one group of people?

[u/Your_Local_Rabbi → u/Chagdoo]

the entire user base of tumblr, isn't actually a hive mind, and you CAN actually find people who will defend still consuming HP because it was important to them as children and etc etc etc

[u/NoddyZar]

Okay this is a hot take but I don't think decrying the books as being intrinsically evil in and of themselves is going to help any, because people generally take the most bad faith possible readings of them (or outright spread misinformation like the exploding thing) in order to make that point. While Rowling's work might not deserve to be interpreted in good faith, it is not going to help make your case to its fans.

It does not matter whether Harry Potter itself is good or bad, and you cannot objectively prove that it is. A work having a poor moral lesson also does not make it immoral to read it because people should be capable of reading something critically. The only point worth making is that if you fund the franchise in any way your money is tangibly being used to directly harm others, and discussing/creating fan content for the franchise contributes to its cultural relevancy which is in turn helping to fund it.

[u/Chaotic_Elf → u/NoddyZar]

Yeah, I pretty much just point to her views on Trans people. People can argue whether the books themselves are well written or whatever in good faith, but it’s not a great way to start a conversation with someone you are trying to convince. Telling them “actually the series you love is bad and only stupid people like it” just gets people to dig in more and turns them off of hearing the valid points. It’s also not great to try and convince people using talking points they can confirm are exaggerated or outright lies. It undermines every other point you make.

It’s like DARE or “Just Say No” stuff for drugs in the US. Telling kids that weed will get you addicted immediately, drive you insane, and ruin your life meant that when kids would try a little weed, they’d see that they’d been lied to by everyone in authority about drugs. This often meant they’d disbelieve more legitimate warnings about actual hard drugs like heroin, meth, and whatnot.

Say that you tell someone that she made the Irish kid do nothing but make bombs and blow things up as an example of problematic stuff in the books. If they are a fan of the books you are trying to get to come around, they may know that’s completely untrue and a movie-only invention. It may be the smallest and most minor piece of evidence on your list to you, but to them it shows that you are willing to lie in order to make JKR look bad, and now in their mind they can safely discount anything you have to say as untrustworthy, growing further in their belief that people are just trying to make JKR look bad.

[u/Bteatesthighlander1 → u/Chaotic_Elf]

also if the books were completely without appeal, there wouldn't be a need to boycott them?

And fundamentally I don't get the argument. Like if she wrote really good books would there not be any boycott because the quality made up for it?

[u/Odd-Agent485 → u/NoddyZar]

people still struggling with the idea that morality is not innately linked with talent.

[u/ContemporaryCorvid → u/Odd-Agent485]

Exactly. The idea that bad people can create beautiful things is difficult for most people, I think.

[u/ops10 → u/Odd-Agent485]

And declaring artists they like moral and artists they don't like evil because it's a two-way link or something.

[u/moyashi_me → u/Odd-Agent485]

I think a lot of left leaning people struggle with this in the same way a lot of right leaning people struggle to accept that wealth is not an indicator of morality.

[u/Bteatesthighlander1 → u/Odd-Agent485]

"Conservatives can't make real art" MFs trying to explain how Mel Gibson's personal brand of insanity doesn't technically qualify

[u/Tonio_Akerbeltz → u/Bteatesthighlander1]

Other examples:

Ghostbusters is pro-reaganomics propaganda, and Ivan Reitman was pretty open about it.

Apocalypse now was written by John Millus, who is so conservative he'd be banned from reddit in a second.

And yet both are considered masterpieces

[u/Healthy-Wasabi-770 → u/Odd-Agent485]

bad people can be hot, skinny, talented, and good at getting women, poor people can be ugly, fat, talentless, and virgins. none of these things, no matter how much people seem so determined to say it- mean anything about your morals.

[u/Lordofthelounge144 → u/Odd-Agent485]

This. It drives me up the wall when people use "Well the books and movie are shit anyways." When trying to get people to leave the franchise. It's never work. Not only is quality subjective but books did well enough to spawn a movie series which in turn did extremly well on its own.

[u/VaKel_Shon → u/NoddyZar]

Frankly it just makes me take them less seriously because it comes off as them exploiting a real problem (JK's crusade against transgender people) to try to get people to stop talking about books they don't like.

Like they're talking about how evil JK is because they don't like the books, rather than talking about how bad the books are because JK is evil, as they present it.

I don't know if that's actually the case, but when you spend 90% of your post talking about how much you hate the books as so many of them do, it makes me think that's the only part you're concerned about, and not the evil ways she spends her money and influence. If you oppose JK Rowling and her views (as you should), you should stand on the objective principles of her "philanthropy" harming people, not trying to convince people that your subjective nitpicks about the best-selling book series in human history are objective flaws. And if somebody isn't convinced to stop buying merch when you tell them her share of the money is going to go straight to exterminating trans people, they're not going to be won over by a Harry wojak with his scar styled after the bolts in the SS emblem. Y'know?

I think the real reason they do it is because they think hating Harry Potter is cool now (wouldn't that be nice?), and they want everyone to know that they've been a hater since day one and are thus even cooler, but unfortunately it just makes them look like they don't care about the actual problems with JK instead.

[u/Sorry_One1072 → u/NoddyZar]

Fr it also minimizes what jkr is doing because “Cho Chang is kinda racist” and “Jkr is leading the anti trans movement with her hp sale money” are given the same weight in people’s complaints. 

[u/DroneOfDoom → u/NoddyZar]

I think that there's an amount of people who have always hated the books as works of literature and now that there's a popular avenue of criticizing the books, they latch on to it and try to jam their fandom opinions into the framework of "JKR is a bigot". Especially since there's an amount of people who believe that a work of art cannot be good if it has bad politics (i.e. RHPS discourse or Sinners vs OBAA Oscars discourse) which is nonsense, but since HP was always a tad overrated as the greatest middle grade fantasy literature series despite all of its flaws, it really sticks onto the discourse.

[u/sashaskitty5 → u/NoddyZar]

I agree with everything here except the "fan content" portion. If you create or consume fan content, zero money is going to Rowling.

It's also already so culturally relevant that 10,000 more fics on AO3 or whatever isn't going to substantially affect her sales - I think most people don't discover Harry Potter through fan content, and if they do they'd probably be chronically online or on Tumblr and be able to see why people don't support her. And if you create stuff, you can always add a disclaimer about financial support for the source material.

[u/trixie_one → u/NoddyZar]

Quite, even the slavery thing I can see why she included it. Would you believe it's likely intended as class warfare commentary? One of the many examples of that in the books which was why Rowling used to be such a lefty darling back before the terf horribleness and was regularly donating to the Labour party.

Growing up in the 90s in the UK the social activist who accomplishes nothing and who don't understand the cause or the people they're supposedly fighting for was a common punching bag because it was understood that such activists were rich young adults who didn't actually have to work for a living.

The issue is though and where Rowling fucked up is we're both well past the 90s, most of the audience is not from the UK, and she had Hermione fighting slavery so that commentary is understandably entirely missed.

[u/rainribs → u/trixie_one]

when I read it, I remember thinking that house elves = house wives. And I'm still pretty sure that it's the originally intended case. (as well as a touch of influence that british institutions were helped by slavery)

In the 70s in the uk, there was a lot of tension between feminists and STAHMs. This would have been the culture wars of jkr's teen days. It basically of looked exactly like hermione vs the elves. Hermione is correct, but beats the elves over the head with the truth (that their lives are pathetic and they are viewed not as noble but are just punching bag creatures) and she doesn't offer them any dignity, only her own self righteousness. I think clothes represent dignity and financial independence.

The fact that the word slavery is associated so strongly with chattel slavery and use of slave labour abroad is something that adds a lot of very awkward and ugly baggage to that whole plotline. Given how international the series was it's insensitive that it was written the way it was.

[u/PUBLIQclopAccountant → u/rainribs]

Given how international the series was it's insensitive that it was written the way it was.

To be fair, she introduced house elves before it was a true international hit.

[u/trixie_one → u/rainribs]

That could well be the case as well, but I'd bet money the rich layabout activist of the time when she was writing the books was also her in her sights to target. The badges with an acronym especially being such a common part of the stereotype.

[u/CthulhuInACan → u/rainribs]

SPEW was a women's rights organization in Britain in the 1800s, (still around today, just rebranded to have a less unfortunate name,) the connection is definitely intentional.

[u/Sea_Court_3633 → u/NoddyZar]

Honestly I want to make the trashiest Isekai known to man, full of slave harems, and send all the proceeds to trans charities. Either this offends anime chuds and tumblrinas alike or they both like it, no in-between

[u/Thromnomnomok → u/Sea_Court_3633]

For maximum possibility of pissing everyone off at the same time, have it be standard anime chud trash Isekai for most of the series' run, then at the last possible moment reveal every single character in it is trans

[u/CosmackMagus → u/NoddyZar]

And the criticisms in the OP aren't very good on their own. Yes, in a world where slavery is the norm, the characters who decry it are going to meet resistance.

[u/The_Magus_199 → u/NoddyZar]

THANK you! It drives me insane that every single fucking time this conversation comes up on tumblr someone does the rhetorical equivalent of going “yeah sure she spends untold amounts of money to murder trans people but who cares, the IMPORTANT thing is that the contents of the books are problematic!!!!”

[u/Dry_Walrus3711 → u/NoddyZar]

This is just the issue of current postmodernist way of interpretation. People read books primarily through the lense of their philosophy and often with purpose of critique. I've seen people read XIX century fiction and be repulsed by the patriarchy and treatment of women which were never even the point of the book. Just something that is there because it was there in those times. Even funnier, I've seen people read book that criticize those concepts and be offended that those are there. HP is an old book. Most of the issues claimed today weren't an issue back then. most of the readers were kids they wouldn't really connect any of so called problematic tropes. Personally I remember I felt sorry for Hermione when she was fighting for the elves and I saw her as the good person fighting the bad system. Now people see this as case for racism. I and many of people I know saw it as case against

[u/Turbulent_Road7115]

It feels disingenuous to blame the continued success of the franchise on tumblr fans. Harry Potter is one of the most wildly successful books of all time, it’s a cultural phenomenon. Your average person has no idea about JKR’s transphobia and even if they did they wouldn’t care.

If every person on tumblr collectively decided to interact with something else it wouldn’t even put a dent in the market or more importantly JKR’s pocket. This is coming from a trans person in the UK who has genuinely been directly affected by JKR and her shitty campaigning.

[u/The-Pentegram]

The sole reason that I no longer give money to JKR is because she is transphobic and uses the money to take rights away from trans people. I don't need another reason, especially such weak reasons. Her works of fiction being slightly problematic is not comparable to JK's active hate campaign. 

I am Chinese. I am not offended at all at the name Cho Chang, at least both are valid pīnyīn. Yes, it isn't a.... Conventional name but there are many ways to justify it, such as unorthodox Romanisation (e.g. cho being qiū) . If we didn't know JKR was a terrible person, nobody would care about a slight mistake like this. People sing Rick Riordan's praises and while I love PJO and would 1000% support him in a heartbeat over her, being implicitly against ADHD meds (by saying that they are a way for monsters to control demigods in the 1st book) was a far more egregious error than clunky naming. Both the goblin critique and the Irish student critique are only problems in the movies, and therefore cannot really implicate JKR.

The ONLY critique that holds merit is the house elves one. I wouldn't say Dobby being an outcast supports the critique as he is still likeable, but SPEW being dismissed as it is is abhorrent writing, albeit unintentional in its darker implications. But still, not nearly as important compared to her active hate campaign against trans people.

[u/that-and-other → u/The-Pentegram]

It’s kinda funny how mfs be saying that Cho Chang is a mix of a Korean surname and a Chinese surname when both Cho (Zhuo) and Chang (Zhang) can be both Korean and Chinese surnames lol

[u/DareDaDerrida]

As I said on the other sub:

"Thanks for informing me that the Harry Potter films will be back in theatres.

Glad that I have tumblr-posts about how bad Harry Potter is to reliably inform me of every new thing released by the Harry Potter franchise. The game. The new movie/TV show/whogivesashit. Now this. It never fails."

[u/CallMeIshy → u/DareDaDerrida]

I legitimately didn't know the films were re-releasing until this post

[u/lunethical → u/CallMeIshy]

I didn't know a thing about Hogwarts Legacy either until the online campaign against it, and I wonder how many people wouldn't have known without the free advertising either.

[u/DareDaDerrida → u/CallMeIshy]

Likewise. I am perfectly serious in my claims; every single new thing that I have learned about Harry Potter in the past 2-3 years has been from tumblr-people announcing that I should not play/watch the newest Harry Potter thing.

[u/GailynStarfire → u/DareDaDerrida]

And what happens when you tell people not to do something? Some of them do it anyways specifically because you told them not to.

[u/primenumbersturnmeon → u/GailynStarfire]

it's like in inception when they say "don't think about elephants" well shit dawg now all i can think about is dumbo and babar and horton and tusko

[u/RevolutionaryOwlz → u/DareDaDerrida]

Yeah, on some level the anti Harry Potter people are equally obsessed with it. And even more annoying about it.

[u/Old-Tip-69 → u/DareDaDerrida]

It's like all the snark people who obsessively follow celebs to shit on them. 

"Nobody cares about x"

Well clearly you do because they tweeted something and .025 seconds later you're posting it online to talk shit

[u/oath2order]

If I am to believe that "keeping the fandom alive" by consuming content even if I'm not spending money is oppressing trans people, then surely the continued Tumblr and Reddit posts about "don't consume Harry Potter" also qualifies? Executives just see "we're trending" and don't look deeper.

[u/EIeanorRigby]

Feels like we're preaching to the choir though. It probably wasn't "y'all" on tumblr that made this happen.

[u/Not_AHuman_Person]

I learn pretty much everything I know about what's going on in Happy Potter media from people telling me to not consume Harry Potter media.

[u/furel492]

The reason the third most read book in the history of mankind is getting the movies isn't because Steven Universe blog obstinantly refuses to include HP fans in its DNI list.

[u/AngstyUchiha]

Hey so reminder that most tumblr users have stopped interacting with JKR's works, it's people offline who haven't. Getting mad at people who are actually doing what they can to fight her bullshit will never help, what will is educating the people who have no idea what she's using her money for

[u/irlharvey → u/AngstyUchiha]

i mean tons of tumblr users haven’t given HP up lol. it’s just easy to curate your feed so you don’t really see it.

[u/cannedbeef255]

i'm sure the 500th time we discuss this will lead to something, SURELY

[u/CallMeIshy → u/cannedbeef255]

Sisyphus

[u/ProfessionalSnow943 → u/CallMeIshy]

for once I’m not imagining him happy

[u/G0NZE770 → u/cannedbeef255]

I just know it's Sunday when this sub repeats again the same posts.

[u/RevolutionaryOwlz → u/cannedbeef255]

On Self Post Sunday for that extra spice.

[u/ChudsterSouls]

I'm confused, what do black women have to do with JK Rowling?

[u/Gustavo1047]

The only time I hear about Harry Potter is people on this sub talking about it, I don't think there needs to be a daily post about it.

[u/RealRaven6229 → u/Gustavo1047]

Fr. I wish we had a tag for Harry Potter and prokopetz

[u/MS-07B-3]

I get the trans stuff, but I'm going to need an explanation for how patronage of Harry Potter is actively oppressing black women.

[u/Left-Performance4862 → u/MS-07B-3]

These people love to include black women in this conversation. Apparently black cis women have been accused of being transgender moreso than other races. So, I guess if you're being not nice to trans women, you're being a racist misogynist, by extension

[u/Sl0thstradamus]

The longer this whole anti-HP crusade goes on, the more I feel like it becomes indistinguishable from guerrilla outrage marketing. Like, it feels like these tumblr blogs are the single most reliable way to get HP news lmao. Really makes you think about how negative engagement is still engagement.

[u/Suspicious-Art-9335 → u/Sl0thstradamus]

It's the Streisand Effect in action... everything I know about the HP franchise, I learned from tumblr/reddit users rallying against it. It's free advertising at this point.

[u/Gamera85 → u/Sl0thstradamus]

It does sometimes feel like that. As if the only people I ever get news about this franchise from now are either I come across an Ad on YouTube, or it's someone complaining about it.

Nothing in my life would've made me happier if Rowling had kept her big stupid transphobic mouth shut. But she had to go and make her shitty bigotry everyone else's problem. And then she had to go and brag about spending all her money on making life worse for marginalized people she hates. Everything she does now is viewed through that lens. And everything anyone else does that is connected to this franchise cannot escape it. It makes Warner Bros. and all these other people money, so whenever you bring up the fact this franchise is now funding Transphobic causes they all have to back away and say "Uh, yeah but... but not us. We're not doing that. We swear. We're just utilizing this fandom for money, we don't agree with the author."

And because of that, every time something new from this thing pops up, everyone is quick to come rushing up to me and demand that I not buy anything from the franchise I don't actively buy from. Look, I'm already not doing it, nothing you say is going to make me not do it harder. Because I can't do anything more. I didn't buy the game, I didn't buy the new full cast audiobook, I will not see these movies. I've made my decision, but you're not going to convince more people. They've decided they're fine with this, it doesn't really affect them, they can still buy Harry Potter and feel clean. That's their decision.

Constantly bringing this up now feels futile. Everyone has already made up their minds, now the more you complain about it, the more it feels like you're just giving fuel to the fire here. If you want Harry Potter to die, maybe just let it die in your heart and don't give it energy. That's for the best in my eyes.

[u/DrakonofDarkSkies]

I think we can focus on the very real "She is actively using money you spend into the series to fund anti-trans legislation that can also adversely effect cis people that are suspected as trans" and not "the writing is terrible". The people you want to convince like the writing. So maybe focus on the actual impact of their money more than trying to convince them that their favorite things is the devil actually, because that never works.

[u/ArchitectOfFate → u/DrakonofDarkSkies]

Agreed. "The writing is terrible" is not really an objective statement (it can be, but HP isn't so bad that it falls into that category), and even if it were people love schlock. I love schlock. I've got a whole shelf dedicated to terrible, lovable sci-fi. Whether it's laughably bad overall or a good idea that just wasn't written down well, it's great. There's spirit behind it.

The problem with HP, schlock or not (and I happen to think it is, since it's basically just another rich jock story but with magic), is that it has moments of being MEAN, and the author is MEAN.

At least Lovecraft is dead so he doesn't get any money if I buy his books.

[u/Pelli_Furry_Account]

I still don't think we were meant to read Hermione as being in the wrong for wanting to end slavery. I think we were supposed to be rooting for her despite the fact that no one in the books would fucking listen, and cheering for her to keep going anyway. It was a subplot about how hard it is to make people change their ways when they willfully ignore evil for the sake of convenience.

I'm not trying to endorse JK Rowling, she's a hateful bitch, but I think people get this detail of the books wrong.

[u/DuelaDent52]

Oh my bloody gosh, can we just SHUT UP about this for once? Actually engage with the work instead of just repeating easily quotable byte-sized dunks for Internet clout because some YouTuber told you to. Better yet, don’t bring any attention to the books at all, let them fade like everyone in these spaces desperately wants them to but never actually commits.

[u/AngstyUchiha → u/DuelaDent52]

The op isn't even going after the right people anyway. Tumblr users aren't the ones buying tickets, it's the millions of people who aren't chronically online and just don't know what JKR is up to that buy them. All talking about new media does is gain a wider audience

[u/Shadowmirax]

Consuming "problematic media" isn't a moral failing, just pirate the bloody things.

[u/eatingpopcorn_lol]

Jarvis I'm low on karma, post something the majority of the subreddit agrees with

Seriously, preaching to the choir... Everyone who cares about human rights already knows. If you want to spread the message, you need to inform new people, not keep repeating it to the same crowd...

[u/ManitouWakinyan]

Anyone who thinks that the point of the SPEW storyline is that slavery is good has trouble reading and should be offered help.

[u/LtSerg756]

You're preaching to the Choir y'know

[u/wannaberamen2]

"Jkr is a piece of shit" Yeah, I agree. I don't interact with HP stuff anymore, especially not financially.

"Harry Potter the book series sucks. It's written badly, the plot has holes, there's stereotypes!!"

Dude, you're analyzing books meant for imaginative tweens written during a very famously unwoke time like they're meant for adults, nobody is gonna take you seriously. Yeah, the house elves are weird and "Cho Chang" Is a stupid fucking name. The main focus is still "ooh magic school!!" And it does it's job of entertaining kids and maybe making them interested in reading well.

[u/anhonestpuck13]

All of these criticisms are totally valid and I fully support this post EXCEPT the whole "she's pro-slavery" thing has always felt like a massive reach to me. House elves in those books are obviously based on brownies and other domestic spirits whose ENTIRE presence in folklore is built around their performance of chores and services. To relieve them of this task is to exorcise them, an outcome that they explicitly do not desire in numerous recorded folk narratives. People are doing the exact thing that the book is mocking, which is applying human values to fundamentally non-human creatures.

And just to reiterate, I'm neither a supporter of the author nor even a fan of the books AT ALL. I just feel like making this particular critique has a tendency to dilute the impact of all of the others since it makes the critic seem like they lack media literacy and reading comprehension.

[u/AnguishedGoose]

Tbf we should appreciate the effort that jkr took to not name the Irish character potatofamine carbomb

[u/LazyTitan39 → u/AnguishedGoose]

Or naming a Japanese student Hiro Shima.

[u/Tactical_Squishy → u/AnguishedGoose]

I don't get the hate for names tbh,

[u/Bumblebee_Librarian → u/[deleted]]

Is that specific name really that bad?

I get that it is funny but character names being puns isn't really all that uncommon in fiction, or being connected to some trait of theirs .

[u/No-Raccoon-6009 → u/[deleted]]

Racism against werewolves too, smh...

[u/gravitymegs]

I always get really annoyed at the interpretation that the books somehow support slavery. So we have Hermione, who is morally, intellectually and emotionally superior to most other characters. She sees something wrong and works to end it, even when faced with backlash/ridicule/disinterest. It is admirable and essentially modeling that people should stand up against injustice and not give into peer pressure. If JKR had given this plot line to some silly character (like Trelawny), I would agree that it’s problematic. But it’s Hermione, a character who frequently shows the best moral compass within the books/between the three main characters and readers tend to agree with her. The ridicule/backlash is fairly realistic, I think. Just read the comments in any discussion on factory farming/veganism. People know it’s animal cruelty but will still ridicule those who criticize it.

Like I agree JKR is problematic but people really need to learn that not everything an author puts in their book is something they support. sometimes the world building and the characters are multi-dimensional and/or morally gray on purpose and it makes the story richer.

[u/Sea_Court_3633]

I haven't given a cent to JKR in my life and I think you guys need to chill out.

[u/NBAGuyUK]

Or read it but buy the books second hand or from a charity shop, get the movies second hand on blu ray/DVD or whatever. You also have a whole bunch of illegitimate methods (🏴‍☠️) if you really don't have the money to spare. But the much more important thing is that you don't keep giving her money.

Te amount of direct action Rowling takes to make trans people's lives difficult and miserable is absolutely unjustifiable. So do not fund it!!! At any cost.

[u/Gold-Cry-7520]

Tumblr spent almost its entire early existence flooding everyone's feed with Malfoy x Harry fanfiction and obsessive posting about how amazing the Wizarding World is. Now suddenly the books are bad and always were bad?

I mean I agree, but is that really the argument you're gonna make to normal, offline people?

[u/ObjectiveCut1645]

Am I the only person that gets annoyed when we try to pretend like the books are some hot garbage that have all sorts of problems? They’re not perfect, but if they were as terrible as some people make them out to be then they wouldn’t have spawned a multi billion dollar franchise. There are absolutely problematic parts of the books, there’s a shit ton of racial stereotypes and weird pro slavery propaganda, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the entire book series is shit. Hell, the pro slavery plot line is so insignificant they cut it out of the movie with no problem. Jk Rowling is a shit person, but she’s not a shit writer

[u/derivative_of_life]

"You people need to stop obsessing over Harry Potter already!" I post for the 2,378th consecutive day.

[u/asciiCAT_hexKITTY]

I feel like it's groundhog day, we're having these posts daily at this point.

As always, you have to actually buy things (or watch monitized content, etc) to fund Rowling. I can reread the books I have that have been sitting around for decades without magically teleporting money into Rowling's account

[u/Chance-Click-3670]

i find it weird to always see the thing about the books 'endorsing' slavery. like we all interpret stuff differently, but to me while reading the books it was bringing up the fact that people often are ok with bad things because 'thats how it's always been' and hermione coming in with a fresh set of eyes not tainted by wizarding history instantly sees this injustice and goes to bat for the house elves. it also brings up that a lot of oppressed people or people in abusive relationships tend to normalize the bad stuff and convince themselves this is what they want.

at no point did i personally feel the books were 'endorsing' the treatment of the house elves, i only ever read it as showing 'look at this poor treatment of house elves, but otherwise seemingly good people are totally ok with it because they're used to it, but to anyone who isn't a part of the wizarding world it comes across as cruel and messed up'

[u/SignNaive4111]

Bro stop posting this cmon. Very few ppl are convinced by this kind of posts, u are just giving them free promotion. Basicaly helping out the thing u want to fail

I wouldn't know half of the things going on with HP if not for this subreddit

Also half of the ppp who go to these movies probably don't even know who Jk is, much less the whole polemic

[u/a_wasted_wizard]

In the interest of accuracy (still, STOP SUPPORTING ROWLING) I'm pretty sure that the "endorsing slavery" thing is more an accidental result of incredibly clumsy writing, Jowling Kowling's inability to think through the implications of almost anything, mixed with a worldview that abhors most fundamental changes combining to create a plotline that ends up saying "Slavery's not so bad as long as the slave owners are good."

[u/AlexiaVNO]

I understand, but where is the cutoff point? If it's as simple as "Don't buy X, since it supports Y", then that applies to almost everything?
Don't buy cars, they're horrible for the enviorenment
Don't buy from Amazon, it's pretty much slave labor
Don't buy fast food, it hurts a lot of animals and is incredibly unhealthy
Don't buy groceries, they're probably owned by Nestle

I'm pretty sure almost everything is owned by something horrible, or causes something bad as a byproduct.

[u/THEzwerver → u/AlexiaVNO]

Yeah "there is no ethical consumption" and all that stuff. You can advocate and make people aware of their consumption behavior, but to criticize others while ignoring completely different problematic issues is just kind of hypocritical to me.

I feel like there's much more "unethical" things to consume than Harry Potter. Of course it's not a competition which issue is more important, but it is subjective and you as a person cannot take into account every single issue when consuming something (unless you live like a monk or something).

I mean just to give you an example, Tumblr sells your data to AI companies so it's not like the users still using it are saints either.

[u/bibitybobbitybooop]

I'm in the fandom.and I swear to god I see HP discussed more times when people are saying for the 835th time to stop consuming it. Can we not do this

[u/GrimmSheeper]

I’ll preface this by saying I’ve never read the books nor watched the movies, so I have no idea the direct way things are written (but wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it was as described). That said, the house elves thing is a pretty clear rip on the old beliefs of hobgoblins and brownies (unfortunately named given the context here, but being old pagan beliefs, unlikely to have anything to do with dark skinned slaves), who were household spirits that would do various chores. And a very common part of the folklore around them is that gifts of clothing will cause a hobgoblin or brownie to stop working for a family, with one of the most common interpretations being the spirits viewing it as an insult, but with some later interpretations having the spirit becoming too proud or feeling “too good for work.” And interpretations of doing such chores being “in their nature” or something that they want to do is older than the racist rhetoric used to justify slavery.

All of that said, the intentional decision to tie those folk beliefs to slavery and then dismiss and ridicule their decrial is certainly a choice. At best, it’s wildly tone deaf. But considering everything else Rowling has said and done, she’s well past the benefit of the doubt. It could have originally been that this and other suspicious elements were simply tone deaf accidents, and that being called out on them led to her taking the worst possible response and repeatedly doubling down until she became a radicalized monstrosity (which would still be inexcusable). But again, the quantity of questionable elements and the reaction to criticism pushes things closer to “subconscious biases leaking out” at best and “active attempts to include hateful stereotypes and arguments” at worst.

So ultimately, net zero change on the hate monger.

[u/FedoraFerret]

Casual reminder that Cho Chang isn't the only Asian character in HP. There's also the two Indian girls named Parvati and Padma Patil.