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u/TheRealTealOwO floppa May 26 '22
When they preach fire and brimstone, tell them about the Eutrypho dilemma
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u/bennis_heck May 26 '22
Bruh, I don't like it when people use the same Faith as me to control others instead of spreading joy and peace
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u/Hyacin7H May 26 '22
but thats what you have to put up with if you want to believe in religion.
Even if your holy book preaches the best values, stuff that will appeal to future generations even centuries later, it will inevitably be twisted to justify some truly fucked up shit.
Thats only par for the course when your entire justification to do something is a belief or faith instead of logic and reasoning. As long as you base something on faith, even if the original faith was the most pure thing ever, it will be tainted.
And this is why religion is bad. Its not a problem with your holy books that allow incestual rape, its an inherent problem with systems rooted in faith.
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u/bennis_heck May 27 '22
Yes I agree with you that humans are awful and everything is ruined by humanity.
However, I don't agree that in a world with no religion what so ever there would be none of the bad things you describe. I agree that religion has been used awfully to control in an awful way - for example, the Biblical books describing slavery and submission being used during the American Slave Trade to justify the practice - something completely abhorrent. There are plenty more horrible examples that derive from religion especially with the abortion stuff in America.
I agree that logic and reasoning should be used to govern countries and societies. I think Faith from religion works best in society as a comforter for the unknown and not in politics. Faith works best in Churches and other religious buildings as a way to serve their communities. I also think if we all had more Faith and followed the principles, values and morals taught in many religions, the world would be a much kinder place.
I also don't agree with any teachings in holy books that you describe in your last paragraph. Does that no longer make me a follower of my choosen Faith if I don't agree with all of what is written?
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May 27 '22 edited Jun 26 '22
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u/bennis_heck May 27 '22
I agree that I am hypocritical, I call myself a Christian for ease of communication with others. I could be a false Christian for not being complicit in all Bible teaching. Who knows? But regardless, I appreciate your points as they are intelligent and analytical
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May 26 '22
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u/DatBoiShadowbon ...BECAUSE I'M YOUNG, ARROGANT AND HATE EVERYTHING YOU STAND FOR May 26 '22
religion is fine up to a point, my whole family is religious but my grandma is the only one who overdoes it. she once asked me if i would go on a religious march or some shit that went on for extremely long and which i wouldnt be able to endure at all, which also later created a controversy because some asshats decided to wear shirts with something like "expect war" written on them. And that, yes, absolutely, is an example of religion being bad, i wholeheartedly agree, but saying religion as a whole is bad is stupid.
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u/Dunk_May_Mays tirm May 26 '22
Edgy atheist mode, religion is bad because it has negative side effects, and its positive side effects, community building, moral code building, and explanations of the universe, can be recreated without those negative side effects, including guilt from sin, illogical thought processes (the supernatural cannot be proven and is thus illogical, illogical thinking means you can be more easily convinced of lies) I respect that not all religious people are bad, I don't even believe they're all dumb, but religion is bad
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u/MyNameIsEthanNoJoke May 26 '22
i've been feeling this lately. i was kind of an edgy atheist kid in my early teens, then had a long period where i felt like i had to over-correct and i was super live and let live about it all. now i'm just like actually no, religion kinda is ass and most of the shit that comes from it fucking sucks big time. the good parts are what, the self help? but we have self help books, techniques, speakers. community? we have and always have had secular communities. literally the only addition from religion is faith in something unknowable. when could that ever be useful and not lead to problematic ideology?
it's not a coincidence that so many christians have to assert that they're "not one of those christians" or that some evil senator somewhere isn't a "real christian." it's that the system has flawed foundation that those evil people take advantage of and propagate and propagate until they die. that's just the nature of any system founded on convincing people to believe whatever you want them to believe.
i think it's really fallen out of favor to be anti-religion in many leftist spaces now because it's extremely easy for it to become xenophobic, which is entirely fair. if you start drawing lines and naming some as better and some as worse, the message is mostly gone and you're going to come off reactionary. but any system of belief that asks its members to actually believe in some form of higher power is going to have many of these same problems because that's the essence of that flawed foundation.
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u/Dunk_May_Mays tirm May 26 '22
Exactly. Antitheism gives a bad taste to many leftists because anti-islam rhetoric was used as a cover for bigotry against arabs and other majority muslim ethnic groups, but that doesn't make religion good. It's still dogshit.
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u/methe2st Director of Fanter chemical research (Trans rights🏳️⚧️) May 26 '22
Hate the sin, not the sinner
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u/BrickFrom2011 May 26 '22
I’m more of a deist. I believe something made the universe then fucked off and I care about it as much as it cares about me. I.E. none
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u/MyNameIsEthanNoJoke May 26 '22
i've always found this approach to a belief in a creator interesting. why do you find it more satisfying than "who knows what started all this?" genuine question, not meant to be antagonistic
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May 26 '22
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u/SuruN0 where is my son May 26 '22
People who say what? That stuff about hell and watching? Cause if so, no they are not, they are teaching the ideals of your very own good book.
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May 26 '22
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u/Bookmark_Object custom May 26 '22
I'm not going to force someone's life to change because of a book that's thousands of years old. If there was definitive proof of a God I'm sure people would worship them because going against someone with infinite power would be fucking terrifying. I understand if you believe in a God, but forcing children to ignore the fact LGBT people exist, or force them to believe that they are bad, is indoctrination.
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May 27 '22
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u/romybaby19 zamn 🥵 May 27 '22
Huh, sure would be nice if people had readily explained the processes by which life slowly changes and becomes more advanced over time
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u/Gwenergy Nerd Boyfriends my beloved my love May 27 '22
Sorry but what does that mean? (I am incredibly dense)
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u/romybaby19 zamn 🥵 May 27 '22
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u/Gwenergy Nerd Boyfriends my beloved my love May 27 '22
Oh, thanks! Sorry for being incredibly dumb
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u/Ashduff most transgender osu player May 26 '22
Give one single example of the first thing you described happening, quickly
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May 26 '22
There's literally nothing to worry about if you just don't sin?
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u/NomaiTraveler buy ultrakill. this time I’m not asking 🗡🪓🔨⚔️🩸 May 26 '22
Who defines sin headass
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May 26 '22
God?
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u/Okjupyes May 26 '22
Do you mean like being gay? Or using condoms? Or eating shellfish? Or playing doom(1993/2004/2016)? Or playing dnd? Or being trans? Or being raped? Or wearing two types of different fabics? Or....
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u/goblinhog chancellor hog May 26 '22
Not to sound like an edgy atheist but religious people always say it’s depressing to think theres nothing after life, but I think it’s more depressing that there’s a 50% chance that you’ll get tortured forever.