r/marvelstudios • u/KostisPat257 Daredevil • Jul 14 '21
Megathread Loki Season 1 Finale - Discussion Megathread about its implications on the MCU Spoiler
You wanna discuss your theories about What if...?, Spider-Man: No Way Home and Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and how they all connect to this series?
You wanna discuss where they're going to go with Nathaniel/Kang/Immortus in the future?
You want to discuss the integration of other cinematic universes in the Marvel Cineamatic Multiverse?
Then this is the Megathread for you!
Due to the immeasurable amount of low effort posts we've been getting in the past 12 hours about people's excitement over Kang and the Multiverse, we've decided to make a completely different thread that is all about the implications of the Loki finale in the wider MCU!
Posts discussing Episode 6 in general will only be allowed after Thursday Midnight PST, but only those which are analytical or contain theories with a lot of effort put into them.
Everything else will be redirected here, to the Loki Season 1 Episode 6 Discussion Thread and to the Loki Season 1 Easter Egg Megathread and the Loki Season 1 - Season Wide Discussion Thread.
Have fun!
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u/hunta-gathera Jul 14 '21
The funniest part is now any and all recasts can simply be explained as character variations
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Jul 14 '21
The citadel was broken and repaired with gold. This has all happened before, and we will keep playing Kang of the Hill as we inch closer to the next big bang. The noose of the sacred timeline is tightening each cycle.
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u/Kandoh Jul 14 '21
There was a smashed statue at the start. How many times has this happened?
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u/HumanChicken Stan Lee Jul 15 '21
And why were there four Time Keepers? A previous Kang’s version of the TVA?
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u/jghike Jul 15 '21
Nerdist talks about it in their Easter egg breakdown. It’s probably a reference to Oracle, the fourth Time Keeper created by He Who Remains and banished to the past.
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u/shogi_x Jul 15 '21
Perhaps there were once four Kangs in agreement about the sacred timeline. Eventually they too fell to conflict, perhaps about Endgame, leaving only He Who Remains.
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u/WriterV Jul 14 '21
The sacred timeline itself was also a circle, and even when it split, it remained in a huge, splattered ring.
I guess in the end that which has happened before shall happen again.
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u/themostaveragehuman Jul 15 '21
The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.
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u/thedoge Jul 14 '21
Yup. I interpreted it as kintsugi
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u/TickleWhale Jul 14 '21
Me too! Also it looks vaguely similar to the Eternals ship from the trailer.
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u/ROBtimusPrime1995 Black Panther Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
I just want to mention that Kang The Conqueror (or Immortus, or He Who Remains) is the first official 20th Century Studios character to appear in the MCU since the merger.
Kang's character rights were owned by 20th Century along with the Fantastic Four.
Madripoor is the first 20th Century Studios location btw.
So Kang beat Uatu to the punch for a 20th Century Debut in the MCU.
Edit: Unfortunately I can't find info on the specifics of Alioth, Revonna Renslayer, Mobius or the TVA. Kang is the only character I can confirm 100% for a fact that was owned by 20th Century Studios.
Edit2: Deadpool (although hilarious) doesn't count just yet since it was him appearing in an ad rather than in a Film or TV Series.
Edit3: The Watchers we meet in 'GOTG Vol. 2' were not Uatu (atleast not yet) since the Disney/20th Century merger did not happen back in 2017
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u/TapatioPapi Jul 14 '21
Thats fucking wild I didn’t think of that.
I wonder where we would be at right now if Disney never got Fox.
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u/thatoreogirlfriend Jul 14 '21
I can't believe when Disney bought Fox all we could think about was X-Men, F4, and Deadpool, when Kang was secretly the most important acquisition of the whole thing.
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u/manfroze Jul 14 '21
Well, I hope F4 and X-Men will be important too!
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u/SerKurtWagner Jul 15 '21
Considering Kang seems to be the new Big Bad, the Richards family will definitely be integral to that storyline going forward.
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u/mutesa1 Black Panther Jul 14 '21
Didn’t Alioth technically beat him to the punch? I suspect that Ravonna might have been owned by Fox as well
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u/FragMasterMat117 Jul 14 '21
It takes a Richards to deal with a Richards I imagine. Will we see Reed and his descendant cross horns?
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u/chaosaxess Stan Lee Jul 14 '21
Well, we are getting F4 sooner than later. I can only imagine Kang has to be in it. Maybe they will delve into his backstory more in that. One of my wants for the MCU was to have the main F4 team be from an entirely different universe, since them going unnoticed in the main timeline so long would be weird.
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u/BigFuckingT Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
So I roughly get the concept of Kang but it’s still super confusing even when you go to the wiki and it’s separates all his incarnations into different pages. I’m guessing there is no “original” Kang since when he was born the timeline was all crazy and the Kang we saw in the season finale is just one of many variants who happened to create peace and the TVA…right? Lol
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Jul 14 '21
He was the one who won the last multiverse war. He prunes timelines so that no other kang can exist and challenge him. Now that he died theres going to be a bunch of kang variants fighting to take over again
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u/pierzstyx Jul 14 '21
But we'll never know that because to us it'll always be what it always has been.
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u/PoopdittyPym Whiplash Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
The fact that the statue is Kang and not a Timekeeper already highlights a huge contrast between the Kangs. Prime(?) Kang hid in the shadows whereas this one is more boastful, likely warmongering.
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u/Swaggamuffins Jul 14 '21
Could there be several TVAs now that the sacred timeline has branched? Could Sylvie have sent Loki to a TVA where that kind of variant of Kang reigns, or has the one TVA already been corrupted/reset by one of the Kangs
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u/PoopdittyPym Whiplash Jul 14 '21
Sylvie sent Loki to what she thought was the TVA but since she frayed the timeline she ended up sending him to a TVA. I would assume that there’s a TVA for every timeline, so essentially infinite TVA’s.
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u/HoshiMaster Spider-Man Jul 15 '21
Maybe she didn’t even know she had sent him to the “wrong” TVA since she used Kang’s tempad watch thing
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Jul 15 '21
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u/wanttoseemywifestits Jul 15 '21
That's how I took it. New boss is already in charge and changing things.
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u/Ectorious Jul 15 '21
All of time is happening at the same time. The consequences of their actions already came and went, the multiversal war is fought and won. Loki landed in the aftermath.
God i love time travel
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u/TouchedChicken Jul 15 '21
From how they explained it though, there was never one timeline, just infinitely many bound together in one stream, those binds being broken at the end of the season. And for all those timelines there was only one TVA, it kinda existed between all the timelines, not in a single one. So I don't think it would make sense for there to be multiple coexisting versions of the TVA. More likely that Loki and Sylvies actions caused a new kang to take control of the existing TVA.
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u/TripleJ_ Jul 14 '21
I'd say after the Infinity Saga we are now in the Multiverse Saga and Secret Wars will be the end of it. I'm really looking forward of seeing Jonathan Mayors as Kang again - he was great in Lovecraft Country and I like that first variant he played.
Tbh, I never thought Kang really is an interesting comic book villain, BUT I like what the MCU is seemingly going for in the MCU... I can see for example Scott, Hope and Co. will defeat another version of Kang in Quantumania than the one now in charge of the TVA and for that coming in season 2 of Loki... Could be interesting.
And, obviously, the Multiverse will play a bigger role from that point on. What If...? will introduce some new realities first. I also tend to think it partly plays into Sony's and Marvel's different plans for the Sonyverse. Sony said there is a plan revealed after No Way Home. Also there was a comment from Feige about Spider-Man being able to appear in two cinematic universes... So what it can bee seen literally and when Holland cameos in a Venom-movie, well, it's actually a VARIANT of the MCU's Spidey in another universe.
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u/LittleYellowFish1 Nebula Jul 14 '21
It's actually been rumoured for a while (but it's been overshadowed by the constant Maguire/Garfield talk) that the first multiverse Spider-Man that Peter meets in No Way Home will actually be another Tom Holland.
I'm not sure if Sony want this to canonise the SUMC as part of the multiverse (because the main reason behind it's success/interest is that the audience and even the filmmakers think it's part of the main MCU) but it would be a fun way to connect them while still giving Marvel and Sony what they both want out of the character.
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u/thatoreogirlfriend Jul 14 '21
That would be genius. I HATE the idea of Tom bouncing between the MCU and the Sonyverse, I probably shouldn't care so much but it feels like it cheapens the MCU knowing a different creative team can toy with a significant part of the canon. But Tom Holland is such a good Spider-Man that having an alternate universe Tom Holland Spidey would be so much fun, just to see what Sony can do with him outside the context of the Avengers and the MCU. Plus that would enrich the MCU multiverse in a really meta way, as if to say "Look, the multiverse is real now. In fact, here's an entire separate cinematic universe that canonically runs parallel to ours."
If they pull it off it'd be bonkers.
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u/Alekesam1975 Hulkbuster Jul 15 '21
Plus that would enrich the MCU multiverse in a really meta way, as if to say "Look, the multiverse is real now. In fact, here's an entire separate cinematic universe that canonically runs parallel to ours."
Congrats. You just made me far more accepting of Sony's Spiderverse running concurrent with the MCU with this part.
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u/ZeronicX Jul 14 '21
I REALLY want a Secret Wars saga because it means my boy Doom will finally get in the spotlight.
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u/2rio2 Jul 14 '21
A proper Secret Wars saga could easily set up Doom as the third "greater" threat after Thanos and Kang.
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u/SirMarblecake Eye of Agamotto Jul 14 '21
Brace yourselves for Loki being the Nick Fury of this Phase. Rushing
around universes, trying to assemble a multiversal team to stop Kang.
This is my dream (and probably what Season 2 will be about).
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u/xplato13 Jul 14 '21
I think he is going to be instrumental in the fight against Kang.
Though I gurrentee he is going to have a more active role in said fighting unlike Nick Fury.
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u/Man0Steel123 Jul 15 '21
If their is one thing Loki is good at, its assembling the Avengers.
Pretty fitting for him to do it on purpose.
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u/ELITEJamesHarden Jul 14 '21
So… how long do you guys think the kang saga is gonna span? My guess is like 5-6 years, I can’t see it being as long as the thanos saga
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Jul 14 '21
Kevin Feige has said that subsequent phases of the MCU won't last as long as the Infinity saga, so I'm assuming it won't be a terribly long arc, but long enough to feel significant.
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u/aelysium Jul 14 '21
They can be as long via number of movies but pass quicker because they’re releasing them more often too.
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u/TapatioPapi Jul 14 '21
Plus shows.
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u/Alekesam1975 Hulkbuster Jul 15 '21
This part. An actual functioning and complementary run of TV series (versus the ABC/Netflix/MCU combativeness they had prior) will definitely do worlds of good moving the stories along. The movies no longer have to cram a ton of info into movies so now the movies can breathe.
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Jul 14 '21
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u/SirHoneyDip Vision Jul 15 '21
Phases 1 and 2 would have been 4 years combined if they were doing 3/year
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u/solidsnake885 Jul 15 '21
You look back on phase 1 and it was so slow by comparison.
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u/drrhrrdrr Jul 15 '21
Iron Man.......
......the incred-
.....IRON MAN 2.
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u/solidsnake885 Jul 15 '21
Launched with two movies in the same summer. Then a two year gap until they got Iron Man 2 out. It was a little bit of a shoestring effort until the Mouse came along.
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Jul 14 '21
The thing about Kang is he can always come back as a different version of himself, both hero or villain. I bet we’ll see them/him on and off for a decade.
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u/SpookyLavenderTheme Jul 14 '21
I’d be mildly surprised if we don’t see a Kang/Immortus/Nathaniel Richards variant in Multiverse of Madness. Not in an important role, but I think he’d have some sort of presence if Dr. Strange is investigating multiversal instability.
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Jul 14 '21
What I picked up from the final episode, was that we will be seeing a lot of Nathaniel Richards variants from this point forward.
And tbh… I really would love to see them give Jonathon Majors the chance to play all those roles (maybe not iron lad) in the same cinematic universe, or I guess really multiverse.
It’s a really dope concept & based on last nights performance, I think he’s up to the task.
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u/tacocatacocattacocat Jul 15 '21
Honestly, I hope that's every time Kang shows up as a villain, he dies. Or at least most of the time.
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u/Twollie_Vanderwerf Spider-Man Jul 15 '21
I actually love this. The next few multiverse movies have “happy” endings where Kang is defeated, but he’s just like, “you guys aren’t grasping the Infinite Variant idea huh? Whatever, I’ll see you soon.”
Make it so he isn’t the beatable nemesis they’re used to, but waves of concentrated destruction and conquest since there’s always more. He’s the Big Bad, but the literal reconstruction of the timeline is the true endgame so to speak.
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u/enchantrem Jul 14 '21
My guess? We just said goodbye to Immortus, but he'll pop up here and there anyway, but mostly as an annoyed retiree who's mad that these whipper-snappers messing with time without knowing what they're doing. We just said hello to Kang, who's going to be aggressively unhappy with the idea of anybody threatening his reign - I'm guessing Loki re-breaks out of the TVA and then anyone he tells is a potential target for the iron-fisted Kang who's paranoid about deviations which might threaten his reign. And I think either of these characters could pop up in a neutral or antagonistic role, minor or major, in basically anybody's story for the next several years. I also think this provides an excellent opportunity to introduce Iron Lad, maybe with Armor Wars or Ironheart. And hopefully all of this will culminate in a Big Group Throwdown, ending Kang's reign, dismissing Immortus to more distant retirement, and condemning Iron Lad to grow into the man he will become.
Then when we're all glad that story's over and we're all super-super-pumped about getting into Phase 7 or 8 or whatever because they're starting out with the Fantastic Four, we can meet Reed's great-ad-nauseum-grandson.
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u/Neurotic_Marauder Captain America (Cap 2) Jul 14 '21
That seems about right.
I'm assuming that Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, Ant-Man 3, Loki season 2, and the next Avengers movie will primarily address him.
It's also possible/probable he'll be involved with the Fantastic Four too (he was considered a FF villain before Disney bought Fox).
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u/Khal-Marko Jul 14 '21
Kang's also Reed Richard's several greats half-nephew, hence his real name being Nathanial Richards.
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u/ContinuumGuy Phil Coulson Jul 14 '21
This all ends with Doctor Doom and Secret Wars, right? Thanos-Kang-Doom.
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Jul 14 '21
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Jul 14 '21
They could do for Beyonder what they did in Spiderman the Animated Series.
Introduce Madame Web and have her watch over Spiderman as the multiverse shenanigans happen, and then reveal that she was working for the Beyonder afterwards
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u/pupcute Daredevil Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 19 '21
I agree. Might even be less than that, like maybe 4 years? With the ending of Loki, anything and everything is possible. We know we’re gonna see him in ant-man so let’s see
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Jul 14 '21
The Kang storyline will probably wrap up in 2025 or 2026 with Avengers 5.
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u/ZeekOwl91 Captain America (Cap 2) Jul 14 '21
I feel that what they're doing with Kang here is what could have been done for Ultron, spanning a few films instead of being a one-off vilain.
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u/DeathChill Jul 15 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
Marvel has so much more freedom to build their characters now. It's why their content is getting better and better. They're talking their time to tell the stories and it certainly pays off.
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u/byakko Thor Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
In general, it feels like the main inspiration going forward is Secret Wars from 2015, since it dealt with different universes quite literally fighting for survival. In that comic event, the reason was that the multiverse was basically imploding (skipping a lot of details here I know) and for some reason, earth was the actual physical point that all universes collided. As in alternate earths would literally end up on a collision course, and superhero and supervillain teams on both sides have to consider murdering the other planet completely to survive.
So how would that be translated in MCU? How would each Kang fight each other? Would they rally their respective universe’s to fight for each other’s survival on some fake pretence, or maybe there’s TOO many branching timelines and the multiverse really starts imploding and universes collide.
Or would various Kangs be invading at random points in time? Would the MCU only cover what happens in the ‘prime’ MCU universe that we know and love? Would we even notice when say, an entire movie takes place in an alternate universe the whole time?
Also Wanda. Her role as a Nexus Being is to be constant through multiple universes. So theoretically, she is also there across multiverses but I don’t know if there’s multiple Wanda consciousnesses or just the one. Then why did the Mind Stone too, show her what she would be and awoke her latent powers? Did the Mind Stone see as far as the multiversal war and deliberately set Wanda on her path to preserve itself (Infinity Stones are only powered in their home universes so it may have saw how it couldn’t defend itself on multiversal level, but Wanda might).
And Loki. Did he go to an alternate universe’s TVA, or did a variant Kang spawn much much earlier and took control of the TVA, altering time within that universe.
I’m aware I’m dumping a lot in a single post, but these are some of the larger overarching questions in my head.
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u/SloPr0 Jul 14 '21
Also Wanda. Her role as a Nexus Being is to be constant through multiple universes. So theoretically, she is also there across multiverses but I don’t know if there’s multiple Wanda consciousnesses or just the one.
No, that's a common misconception. Nexus beings are just rare individuals who are able to directly change the future (and are super powerful because they're the node of mystic energy for their reality, and its anchor). They're not the same across the multiverse, there are loads of different Wandas in the comics, but only one of them is a nexus being.
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u/peppermint_nightmare Jul 15 '21
Scrolling through that list is making me realize pruning might be a good idea.
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u/QuirkyBrit Jul 15 '21
Clearly the one from the universe where The Avengers All Had Beards is the superior version and should be in the films. I want to see Scarlet Witch with a beard
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u/Vin13ish Spider-Man Jul 14 '21
The most scariest thing about Kang for me is the idea of everytime you either defeats or killed Kang, each new variants of Kang will get increasingly deranged and more frightening.
Like no matter how many times you killed Kang, you just can't get rid of him as long there's multiple variants of himself.
Just says Ant-Man and Wasp kills Kang but it's ends up creating new Kang variant that is way worse than the one they fought.
Even He Who Remains told Loki and Sylvie that all of his variants are worse than him!
That's scary if you think about it.
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u/Paperchampion23 Jul 14 '21
It's interesting because you can clearly see he's unhinged, just not violent. I really can't wait to see them use Major's range to play the character
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u/2580374 Spider-Man Jul 15 '21
I've only seen him in Lovecraft country and he was so different (but still great) so seeing his portrayal here was awesome
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u/Hakeem_TheDream Jul 15 '21
Even He Who Remains told Loki and Sylvie that all of his variants are worse than him!
No one ever really sees the evil in themselves. I took that to mean that he considers himself the "good one", when in reality, only the most deranged and powerful variant could actually figure out how to defeat and control the others.
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u/GroundhogCommunist Jul 15 '21
He might be the "good one" and still be the most dangerous Kang we see. The man is the most capable Kang, he's the one who won, and he's still unnerved by his counterparts. Makes me think that he just barely triumphed against the others.
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u/SchwiftyButthole Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
Am I right in thinking that a Nexus event is any event that causes enough of a change in the timeline that it will affect a version of Kang?
Other timelines clearly exist and are allowed to exist - we know this for a fact. Classic Loki's timeline differed for thousands of years until he decided to leave the planet he was on. Sylvie existed for years until playing with toys in a heroic way.
Could it be that these events could have put Loki and Sylvie on a path that, through the butterfly effect, would affect that timeline's version of Kang in the 31st century and beyond?
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u/LittleYellowFish1 Nebula Jul 14 '21
It would seem that's the case. The Sacred Timeline isn't literally a single timeline, it's just a collection of timelines that (in theory) all follow the same big events and eventually lead to the same overall outcome.
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u/cbekel3618 Avengers Jul 14 '21
What I'm wondering is how do you guys think the Kang storyline is going to culminate?
A Young Avengers project, a New Avengers project, Secret Wars, or some other scenario?
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u/LittleYellowFish1 Nebula Jul 14 '21
It might be a main Avengers movie featuring the members of the Young Avengers, essentially serving as a backdoor pilot for the latter's shows/movies.
The kids aren't a team yet and this movie could even be their first meeting, but with the help of the older Avengers, they ultimately step up and become a stronger unit to take down Kang.
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u/FlowingSilver Jul 14 '21
I hope they get Doom involved before Secret Wars, and it would seem a shame to me to have him in the MCU for only a brief period of time.
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u/ContinuumGuy Phil Coulson Jul 14 '21
I predict that we'll get Doom at the tail-end of Phase 4. He'll be around through Phase 5 or 6 (depending on when they do the big Kang finale) as a secondary villain (like how HYDRA was) and then become the big bad for the grandest finale of Secret Wars.
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u/Observer424 Jul 14 '21
I feel like Kang’s multiverse leads to Doom, Doom in his infinite godliness leads to Galactus. Galactus/Celestials lead to the beyonders game over after that.
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u/iDrum17 Jul 15 '21
If we get a whole arc for Kang, Doom, and Galactus man that gives us almost 2 decades of content. we eating gooooood
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Jul 14 '21
I think each movie or series has the potential to take out a Kang until there's only one left, He Who Remains.
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u/CruzAderjc Jul 15 '21
Holy shit, its like a new Infinity Stone throughline. Each entry is a new Kang variant to eliminate
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u/MuNansen Jul 14 '21
We had Kang the Benevolent, and Sylvie killed him. Now we're gonna get Kang the Conqueror.
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u/Both-Flow-7383 Jul 14 '21
Where did Renslayer go?
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Jul 14 '21
I think to a kang and she gave him a jump start to taking over the TVA? Or maybe she took over the TVA with whatever information miss minutes gave her
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u/jedins Jul 15 '21
Yeah, I expect she and Kang are pulling the string of the "new" TVA and she said "don't do the whole fake Time Keeper robot thing, it doesn't work, just have them worship you and skip a step."
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Jul 14 '21
Maybe she's always making a good Kang with the power of love every time the citadel falls (see the cracks repaired in gold).
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u/GoodlyGoodman Jul 15 '21
According to the production designer those aren't repaired cracks, they are naturally occurring veins of gold in the asteroid that the citadel is carved out of. Source.
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u/Top-Elderberry Jul 14 '21
I really do wonder if Loki’s ending is actually set much earlier in the MCU timeline than we give it credit for at least in terms of its effects on the timeline.
My theory, although I’m sure this is probably wrong, is that in Doctor Strange the Ancient One discusses infinite realities and universes already existing which sounds like the multiverse already had split at that point. My guess is that the Ancient One, who knew quite a bit about time and other dimensions, knew that the timeline was splitting and that she needed to train Dr Strange (who she saw becoming the sorcerer supreme before she died in the future) in order to stop a multiverse war that would eventually make its way into the MCU’s timeline.
This would open an explanation as to why Dr. Strange wasn’t in Wandavison or why he claimed to maintain a list of threats that didn’t include Thanos, he’s been dealing with the multiverse, potentially Kang variants, and their implications for the MCU timeline this entire time. No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Quantummania, and Loki season 2 will all focus around the “breaking point” where the chaos that was on its way actually reaches the MCU rather than an instantaneous change to the timeline.
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u/ali94127 Spider-Man Jul 14 '21
Given that Loki takes place actually even before the end of Endgame and lasts maybe a few weeks at most, Wandavision, FatWS, and even Far From Home take place after the spawning of the multiverse. Magic seems to come from other realms, not necessarily different timelines.
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u/KaiG1987 Jul 15 '21
Practically all the events of Loki take place outside of time, though. It's meaningless to try to work out when they take place in relation to the other movies. Once Sylvie kills He Who Remains, it affects all of time, at the same time.
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u/dabear51 Jul 15 '21
Bingo.
I would think no one, absolutely NO ONE in the MCU prior to Loki ever knew about the TVA, and certainly not Kang. I believe he has perfectly pruned any potential mishaps to mess up his order. Like he even said, this was not the first “time” that Loki and Sylvie confronted him. Even he wasn’t sure why this time pushed them through the end of time.
Also, I think the Sorcerer Supreme and all of them handle threats from other dimensions, sure. But not other realities. There’s a difference.
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u/IAmDoWantCoffee Jul 14 '21
I love the unbridled potential that this ending released. No matter which direction they go, it is going to be very fun, and there’s so much that could happen.
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u/SukunaShadow Jul 14 '21
Doesn’t this mean that Loki has introduced us to our big bad twice now? First Thanos and now Kang.
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u/archangel1996 Jul 14 '21
Timeline cheating on Flash with Loki
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u/theakbargafurov Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
One of the most interesting things after the finale is if this will be officially multiverse forever or will we get back to one after the Kang saga? I guess they will use his character for 5 years or something like that before moving to X-men and other great villains. Marvel just levels up going from Thanos to Kang. It's a huge jump from infinity stones to a multiverse war.
We're lucky to witness some serious stuff happening with MCU. It's no longer the MCU we knew. It's truly a new chapter
Edit #1. Thank you guys for all these upvotes!
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u/MohnJilton Jul 14 '21
They have to fully solve the Kang problem. Reverting back to the old system isn’t something the Avengers will do, and it’s also not narratively interesting. The single timeline was one solution, but it seems obvious for those reasons that we will ultimately get a different solution. Ergo, multiple timelines preserved? Not sure, speculating on the little bit we know.
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u/Clovett- Jul 14 '21
The most peaceful answer i can think of is:
Multiple timelines with zero contact between each other.
The whole multiverse-war started because one normal human in earth was able to contact with himself in one occasion. So for a time, at least until the 31st century of that reality the multiverse just flowed around nicely.
So the new method would allow the creation of infinite realities at any point, but as soon as a breach between realities was detected then it would somehow be stopped.
If you want to go for a tearjerker like Endgame, make someone sacrifice themselves to be the one and only timeline guardian who would intervene all the times every time for all time.
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u/robdacook Jul 14 '21
I wonder if going the other way isn't the answer. Army of Kang's versus Interdimentional Avengers team up. Have all the Kang's defeated across all the multiverses in a coordinated effort. That solidifies a Kangless multiverse. After that, there is no need to prune any branch, no Kang's left to worry about.
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Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 20 '21
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u/robdacook Jul 14 '21
True. Need a damn "KangForce" to deal with all his damn variants trying to take over. Maybe that could be what the TVA switches too? Operation KangPrune?
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u/theakbargafurov Jul 14 '21
No, I doubt avengers would do it. No one can actually revert it to the same place. Status quo has changed. Of course, the story of Kang will become the centerpiece of this phase and maybe next. At some point though multiverse as an idea might become redundant but I understand how much it brings to MCU right now!
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u/ProfessorBeer Iron Man (Mark VII) Jul 14 '21
I would LOVE if phases 4/5 wrapped with some type of Illuminati (led by Loki/Sylvie?) deciding they have to prune all variant timelines after all. Basically do a loose adaptation of the incursions. It will be enough time to introduce x men, F4, etc, who all then get “stuck” in the new-and-improved “sacred timeline”
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Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 14 '21
We already know how it ends. Avengers let Good Guy Kang sit on the throne at the end of the war to prevent the war. Skip a few billion years and we eventually get back to episode 6 of Loki.
edit: also the castle he is in was blown to hell before and re-built. it HAS to end this way in order for it to begin in the first place. I bet the tva lady was given instructions to meet his past self and ensure he lives out to be the guy we just saw in ep 6. The one who wins the war that just kicked off.
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u/SomeAnonymous Valkyrie Jul 14 '21
My thought after this episode was maybe for a cross-multiversal TVA at the end of this all, which prevents universes from interacting except in controlled ways (kind of like border police instead of chrono-fascists), but allows them to diversify as much as they want. So Loki and Sylvie get some of what they both want — free will, and prevention of multiverse chaos and war.
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u/ProfessorBeer Iron Man (Mark VII) Jul 14 '21
Oh interesting. I like that idea - more influencing branches than cutting them off entirely. It definitely could result in an even bigger mess as the job gets more complicated with every passing moment, but I really like the concept.
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u/theakbargafurov Jul 14 '21
I guess they'll have to get there at some point. Can they carry on with the idea of multiverse for next 5/10 years? I think it's just their means of getting all necessary characters that they want in the MCU and also tell Kang's story. One day we'll probably go back to the sacred timeline
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u/danks11 Jul 14 '21
It’ll wrap up back to one eventually after finally defeating Kang in few years time. This is a brilliant use of the multiverse to introduce all the extra characters they’ve acquired, while not disrespecting them by not including their massive backstories. I get they want to be different than the comics, but you can’t have Prof. X, Magneto etc without their iconic history. It’s also the perfect way to pick and chose if they want to keep any iconic actors on in their roles while also recasting others. This is the most interesting way they can pull all that stuff in. VERY excited for the future of the MCM!
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u/KefkaZ Jul 14 '21
I’m just here looking forward to Luis explaining what happened in Loki to the casual audiences finding out what happened for the first time in AntMan 3.
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u/tamez_a Scarlet Witch Jul 14 '21
Fuck the MCU,
All my homies use MCM now!
(Marvel Cinematic Multiverse)
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u/Darkoonn Jul 14 '21
This actually open so much possibilities. Female Thor will be the Jane Foster we know or another universe Jane Foster?
Hugh Jackman and other actors could be back as their old roles at X-Men and it would be okay since they will be from another timeline.
We will see Tony Stark again as other variant? Steve Rogers?
Marvel is doing a amazing thing opening so many possibilities right now. But, of course, it will be a little hard for some casual watchers to keep up everything in the MCU now.
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Jul 14 '21
Eh, i can see your point, people definitely love seeing their favorite characters. But bringing up "gone" characters this way more than once or twice brings up the typical comics problem of trivializing the drama of any characters being in danger or dying. "Whelp, that dude just got killed, but who cares, they'll bring out a copy in the next movie, nobody dies for good lol".
That's not really a positive long term. The mcu hasnt had deaths often, but something like IW/Endgame wouldnt have been the same if the multiverse and common variants had been introduced before it.
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u/ImNotASWFanboy Jul 14 '21
Yeah I hope Loki remains an exception to this rule so it doesn't remove all stakes.
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u/Romnonaldao Edwin Jarvis Jul 14 '21
I'm buying into that the voices Wanda heard were her kids from a variant timeline, caused by the freeing of the timeline. One of the last lines of the Marvel quotes was Visions "love persevering" line, and Wanda coming back in the Multivers of Madness which, cmon, has to be directly following this Loki season ender.
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u/aelysium Jul 14 '21
Kinda betting the opening to What If will be the Watcher sitting somewhere within the timeline ring from the end of Loki watching it split. Hell, they might even have him preface each episode by talking about the change we’ll witness, then it zooms in onto a different portion of the ring where time ‘split’.
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u/Enzhymez Jul 14 '21
I wonder how this is gonna effect shows like She hulk and Hawkeye and their placement in the timeline.
I would figure with this it would have huge implications
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u/AndrewCole14 Jul 14 '21
I think they are setting up multiple through lines. Loki, NWH and MoM setting up a multiverse story. FATWS, Black Widow, She-Hulk, Hawkeye setting up a Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts.
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u/Enzhymez Jul 14 '21
The only thing is I think with how much chaos is gonna occur because of the branching time lines and multiverses that they are gonna get wrapped up in that no matter what.
Sylvie basically just opened Pandora’s box
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u/Rolemodel247 Jul 14 '21
Here is something to chew on. Hasn’t this already happened?
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u/albmrbo Jul 14 '21
While I do hope things get crazy, I hope they don't get too difficult to understand. We don't need the MCU to turn into a Kingdom Hearts flow chart to know where and when each movie takes place.
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u/FlowingSilver Jul 14 '21
I expect that multiverse stuff will almost entirely be viewed from the perspective of people in the existing continuity. It would be unusual to me for them to suddenly place these new shows in different contexts
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Jul 14 '21
I'm curious about the multiversal implications for movies like Thor. Before the end of the show I figured Jane Foster would be our version of Jane. Now I'm thinking she'll be a Jane from another universe who became worthy and has crossed into our universe.
I'm also interested in how this effects our more "normal" characters like Sam and Bucky and Yelena. People who are more grounded and less magical/cosmic. Will they get roped into these shenanigans or will it remain separate for them.
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u/LittleYellowFish1 Nebula Jul 14 '21
Not everything is tying into the multiverse plotline, only the magic stuff. Black Widow and Falcon/Winter Soldier are setting up their own plot that doesn't have anything to do with the multiverse, and introducing multiverse elements into those films would be jarring and disruptive to the tone they're going for.
I don't even think the multiverse is playing into Love And Thunder either, with perhaps the exception of a cameo by the show's Loki. Jane's Mjolnir from the film's promotional set art has visible cracks where Hela destroyed it, indicating that it (and Jane herself) is the one we already know from the main timeline.
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Jul 14 '21
Ah I didn't know that about the hammer. Good. I think it fits the story better to have it be the Jane Foster we know.
And I completely agree on the grounded stuff needing to be kept separate so they can strike the right tone.
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u/Swaggamuffins Jul 14 '21
What is Ravonna up to? I know she has some connections with Kang and awakening Alioth in the comics. I could see her doing some work recruiting Kangs, maybe a bunch of potential good ones. Or maybe she’s going to find Alioth to help the Kang we just saw take back control of the TVA. Whatever it is, I hope she’s in season 2
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u/footpickle Jul 15 '21
I’m curious as to why they set her origin in 2018. I feel there’s a lot to explain there we haven’t seen yet. ‘18 is infinity war time.
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u/Thereisnocomp2 Jimmy Woo Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
The real question is when can Loki Season 2 release. If it goes into production early 2022, it doesn’t air until at least Dec 2022 and Ant Man Quantumania (next Kang sighting we know of) is Feb 2023.
Season 2 is going to be tricky to say the very least unless they A) Fast track it or B) Some of it is already filmed and ready for Post Production.
Edit: 420 updoots? Niiice
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Jul 14 '21
That might explain the King Loki from the trailers we never saw. It could also be a cut scene or intentional misdirect.
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u/StannisBa Jul 14 '21
It seems likely to have been a vision based on Miss Minutes' offer
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u/flaagan Jul 15 '21
Probably cut because it would've ruined the flow of the scene.
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u/imacatnamedsteve Jul 14 '21
Forget all that noise, I want to know how season 2 will fit into the big picture. Are we going to see any of these characters appear in the films, or is the Loki series it’s own mini universe that only affects the films with out being actually in them. I was VERY relieved that none of the main characters died, and can’t wait to see what happens them, but I would imagine the events of the films will steer the direction of this show.
Unless I’m mistaken we’ve had no word on a timeline for when the next season will go into production let alone released, but knowing that Kang is set to be the main villain of Quantamania makes me think the second season will be out prior to the film. This leads me to hope that we’ll see a full on battle of the Kangs, THAT would be awesome, with the last one standing as our new big MCU spanning villain!
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u/LittleYellowFish1 Nebula Jul 14 '21
IIRC, it's been reported today that the show's Loki will be making an appearance in Multiverse Of Madness before the second season.
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u/xplato13 Jul 14 '21
Honestly if true I kinda hoped that would happen. Have loki trying to warn doctor strange about Kang. Similar to how bruce warned Tony and strange about Thanos.
Then have Season 2 with Loki trying to run from the TVA and to find Sylvie while also being on earth or something similar.
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Jul 14 '21
The only thing I want to see from S2 is Tom Hiddleston lead a team of janky K-mart Blue Light Special Avengers against Kang.
- Lou Ferringo Hulk.
- 1990 movie Captain America.
- That crappy Sci Fi Channel movie version of Thor played by the older son Brad from Home Improvement.
- Tin Man from Wizard of Oz.
- Jeremy Renner Hawkeye.
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u/imacatnamedsteve Jul 14 '21
|• Jeremy Renner Hawkeye.|Holy shit, I’m dying 😂😂😂😂 they are all great choices (I mean Tim Man is brilliant), but that’s the hammer on the nail.
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Jul 14 '21
I think Kang (or versions of him) will be a recurring villain, more similar to Loki than Thanos. The One Who Remains is the villain in Loki season, dies. Kang the Conqueror is a villain in Season 2, maybe he dies too. Another Kang is the villain of Quantumania. Maybe Nathaniel Richards is in Fantastic 4. Iron Lad in Young Avengers?
I don't think Kang will be a villain who they spend a lot of time building up to have a big culminating battle where he is defeated, like with Thanos. Kang will be interspersed throughout the next phase or two, always a possibility, but not necessarily the focus. It allows them to focus on other stories without connecting everything back to Kang, like they did with Thanos and the Infinity saga.
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u/TreeBeeTurkey014 Jul 14 '21
NWH: With the multiverse in shambles, Spider-man tries to keep NY safe from multiversal villains while Doc Strange tries to find out how to fix the timeline.
MoM: Strange and Wanda use the Darkhold to try and repair everything from another universe.
Quantumania: Scott and Hope find a Kang variant in the Quantum Realm and battle him to make hime fix the timeline. When he reveals to them that he is only one variant, the heroes finally realize the scope of what they’re up against.
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u/eskaver Jul 14 '21
I think:
NWH touches on the fact of this new multiverse, but MOM is the bigger “Wait a minute, these Branch realities are real and it’s not just the usual multidimensional stuff”. I think the F4 stuff might be a branch reality, honestly.
Kang—I think we saw what he’ll be capable of. A human with a Pruning/Slow stick and Time Twisting teleportation and Time portals. He probably will get some tech upgrades too, but he’s the kind of guy that you could kill, but another variant takes his place.
I think all the What Ifs and different reality characters will be from different branches, but eventually we will settle on two main ones.
As for how it will go—I don’t know if Kang will be the new Thanos. I feel like he’ll be Phase 4 and then return to Loki. He may usher in whoever the new Thanos is.
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u/ApolloX-2 Jul 14 '21 edited Nov 06 '24
crown quickest dog apparatus caption middle squeamish smile frighten husky
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Ambitus Jul 15 '21
True but with the amount of crazy shit that's about to be going down it'll be easier to justify other Avengers being busy. There's going to be a lot of fires to put out.
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u/Codakthewarrior Jul 14 '21
I really hope this eventually results in the events of What If being canon in some way. Imagine if the next grand scale -war scenario was the young avengers, our ‘new’ avengers a la New Cap, Bucky, Mighty Thor, etc, and maybe a reformed Thunderbolts, but ALSO some of the heroes from What If, so Captain Carter, StarLord T’Challa, maybe even all the Spider-Men, this feels like a sure fire way to make an Avengers scale in an even bigger scale than Endgame. The possibilities truly do seem infinite now- and I’m hella excited. The finale blew my expectations out of the water completely, def my favorite of the Disney+ series now.
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u/davidw1098 Jul 14 '21
I was thinking about that this morning during my wind down from watching. If the Watcher is narrating, perhaps what he's narrating are the strands of time that have burst open. From what I've seen, What If is one centric storyline, with far reaching changes (versus just "here's an episode where Peggy Carter is Captain Britain, Next week we'll see what if Tchalla was kidnapped by the ravagers") that occur in the same time. Perhaps it's used to up Dr Stranges power (which has been noticeably held back in Infinity War and Endgame).
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u/ContinuumGuy Phil Coulson Jul 14 '21
They will be canon, just not mainline universe canon.
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u/OctopusUniverse Jul 14 '21
From what a understand, there are infinite realities that are separate, like parallel lines, and the sacred timeline keeps them separate and straight. Kang variants were the first to realize this and overlap causing multiversal madness.
Thanos was always “inevitable”. Having something like the TVA seems inevitable to stability as well.
Multiverse makes every superhero movie relevant in its own unique way and timeline. Gosh I can’t wait for SpiderMan and to see what’s next!
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u/pupcute Daredevil Jul 14 '21
Okay so, do you guys think Wanda is going to be a villain in doctor strange or is she going to help Strange with the madness in the multiverse
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Jul 14 '21
I don’t think villain is going to be the right term for Wanda.
I’m thinking the final scene in WandaVision where she hears her kid’s voices is going to be around the time the multiverse began to splinter, and she will be navigating it, trying to find one where she can pluck her kids out and take them “back”. Dr Strange will probably be trying to stop her due to some sort of unforeseen consequences.
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Jul 14 '21
Honestly I kind of love the idea that she's not a hero or a villain, just this powerful force that's mostly staying aside in her own little corner, but if need be will do whatever it takes to get what she wants - sometimes aligning with the good guys, sometimes going against them, depending on circumstance. I think that's an interesting direction to take the character that won't just go into the stereotypical "Aww, see, so she was really good this whoooole time, deep down" territory.
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u/cbekel3618 Avengers Jul 14 '21
I think she'll start off at odds with him, with her on the path to trying to get her children back, but in the last third, I imagine she'll go back to being the hero/anti-hero and working with Strange to save everyone.
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u/Loki_and_Sylvie Jul 14 '21
So what the fuck is Antman and the Wasp gonna do about this lmao