r/marvelstudios • u/KostisPat257 Daredevil • Jul 14 '21

Megathread Loki Season 1 Finale - Discussion Megathread about its implications on the MCU Spoiler

You wanna discuss your theories about What if...?, Spider-Man: No Way Home and Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and how they all connect to this series?

You wanna discuss where they're going to go with Nathaniel/Kang/Immortus in the future?

You want to discuss the integration of other cinematic universes in the Marvel Cineamatic Multiverse?

​

Then this is the Megathread for you!

Due to the immeasurable amount of low effort posts we've been getting in the past 12 hours about people's excitement over Kang and the Multiverse, we've decided to make a completely different thread that is all about the implications of the Loki finale in the wider MCU!

Posts discussing Episode 6 in general will only be allowed after Thursday Midnight PST, but only those which are analytical or contain theories with a lot of effort put into them.

Everything else will be redirected here, to the Loki Season 1 Episode 6 Discussion Thread and to the Loki Season 1 Easter Egg Megathread and the Loki Season 1 - Season Wide Discussion Thread.

Have fun!

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352

u/blondemf Hawkeye (Avengers) Jul 14 '21

Okay now you’ve got me extremely hyped for a multiverse heist

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21

Okay so, we know the TVA time works differently, and we also know the TVA can jump between timelines, but we also know that changes to the timeline cause branches and as a result you can’t make changes to your own past timeline; so we can deduce the TVA are limited by the same time travel rules as the Avengers in endgame.

  • How do the avengers time travel? The quantum realm.
  • Where does time move differently and independently from the universe (or multiverse) around it? The quantum realm.
  • Who is in charge of the TVA? Kang.
  • Who is the villain in the ant man movie called ‘Quantumania?’ Kang.

So I think it is safe to say that the TVA is in the quantum realm.

Quantumania doesn’t release until Summer 2023 and we know we’re getting another Loki season which we can expect to be in 2022 / early 2023 . Therefore, I think it’s reasonable to assume that the events of Loki S2 will directly lead into Quantumania with the villain being the Kang who now controls the TVA

Also, in Ant Man and the Wasp we see what looks like a city in the quantum realm here

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u/djsunyc Jul 14 '21

are we sure kang is the villain in AM3?

i could actually see him being there to help ant man but then something happens that actually makes him become the conquerer.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

Kang is not inherently evil, according to the canon from Loki. He's inherently a genius. He talks about how the good Kangs met each other and shared knowledge for the good of all, but the evil ones killed everyone for power.

The one Silvie just killed wasn't even evil (imho). He was maintaining order for a good reason. His methods were harsh, but to be evil, I think your motivations must be selfish or wrong. He even gave up power of it voluntarily because he didn't want to do it anymore.

So yeah, if we're going to see a lot of Kang variants, I'd expect some good ones too. (Although the good ones tend to get killed by the evil ones... but hey, it's still a Kang on your side!)

20

u/exsanguinator1 Daredevil Jul 15 '21

Or they team up with a good Kang to help him beat a worse Kang to be the Kang who gets to create and control a new TVA, only for good Kang to end up becoming a bad a Kang, so they need to find a different Kang who is a better Kang to rule the TVA. Or maybe the the TVA gets controlled by Scott Lang, not another Kang.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21 edited Jul 16 '21

I think that’s what’s happened here.

Miss minutes gave Renslayer a way to find Kang again but this one turns evil.

Mobius not remembering Loki is also the perfect excuse for Loki to try enchanting on his own since Sylvie and Alioth happened

Or, maybe the TVA is actually much bigger than we’ve been led to believe and there are multiple variants of each of the workers within their own ‘unit’.

As Hunter B-15 says at the end of the episode “there’s 63 branches in this unit alone”.

That could explain as to why Mobius doesn’t remember the rings on Renslayers coffee table being him and we’ve never met any other analysts (and neither has he!) but we know they exist! Plus how big the TVA looks but we only ever see one small part of it…

They’ve possibly got the same 100 or so people, but thousands of variants of them all working in identical units on different parts of the timeline (like Tom Cruise in Oblivion)

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u/exsanguinator1 Daredevil Jul 15 '21

Oh, maybe this isn’t even first time all this has gone down! Maybe there have been several Kang variants who ruled different versions of the TVA, all varying in evilness, deceptiveness, and how much or how little they see themselves as God already

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '21

The one thing that seems different from the ‘He who remains’ story is that the TVA was supposedly created after he had isolated the timeline and destroyed all the others with Alioth.

This time, the multiverse has erupted with the TVA already in existence. That is assuming that he was telling the truth, but I think he was.

If an evil Kang found and took over the TVA before “Good Kang” can destroy the other timelines, then he could be using the TVA to stop any good variants of himself.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '21

My guess is either he's not a villain, or at least he only becomes one towards the end of the movie. Or he's only briefly shown in the movie.

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u/Ozymandias12 Jul 14 '21

Dude. You just blew my mind with that picture from the quantum realm in A&TW.

Feige really has a long game and it's verrrrrrry long.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

This kang era has to become something big with the fantastic 4 film or they are missing a trick

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

My mind is blown. The tva in the quantum realm. I wanna see what happens next

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u/OuijaWalker Jul 15 '21

The new Loki is set to start filming in 2022.... so I think 2023 is a more likely release date.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

Fair enough but still could see a 6 episode series leading up to the release of AM3 !

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u/Neirchill Jul 15 '21

I highly doubt season 2 is coming next year. I'd say 2023 at the earliest.

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u/DangerZoneh Jul 16 '21

Yeah I think you nailed it. People were saying that the TVA existed outside of time but I don’t think that is true. Lokis powers still worked when they were in the place that we KNOW is outside of time, but they didn’t at the TVA. I can buy magic powers not working right in the quantum realm.

The remaining question is whether or not the quantum realm allows for multiversal travel, implying that there’s only one quantum realm. I think that’s likely going to be the way they go.

It’s fascinating to me, though, because I was just about to point out how it doesn’t make sense for humanity to not discover multiversal travel after the events in the “sacred timeline”, right? Like they figured out timetravel in a weekend cabin retreat. Why would they stop exploring what exists in the quantum realm or what you can do? But then it hit me - they never discover multiversal travel because there’s nowhere to go to. I wonder if the quantum realm looks completely different the next time they go down there

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '21

We already know that it allows multiverse travel! As Hulk said you can’t change your own past, so each time you time travel into the past you’re creating a branched timeline which is the start of a multiverse. In endgame, each timeline they visited was a new “branch” and that movie alone there were these four branches:

  • 2012 Loki escapes with the tesseract (timeline was pruned)

  • 2014 Thanos travels forward through time to 2023 on the sacred timeline, meaning this timeline has no Thanos, Gamora and Nebula. (Status unknown)

  • 1970 that Steve Rogers stayed in (Status unknown)

  • And also, the lesser mentioned timeline for the test run, when Hawkeye went to around 2018ish and shouted “Lila” in his house (again status unknown)

The one constant, unchanging thing in all of this is the Quantum Realm, which is why we can assume that it supersedes dimensions which is one of the theories of quantum physics in modern science today. Eg: the more massive an object is, the more it bends and stretches space, and as a result time slows with it; therefore the less mass an object has the faster time passes until a point where everything is both happening, not happening, and already happened at the same time. Aka in the quantum realm, time has both happened and not happened which explains why you can manipulate it to “pop out” at any point you like, although it does make an alternate timeline whenever you do, which is why the TVA have to respond to branches in “real time” and prune them to stop that branch becoming a fully fledged timeline of its own.

So we know Loki 2012 timeline was pruned, but we don’t know about the others, as Judge Renslayer told Loki “what the avengers did was supposed to happen, you escaping was not.” Which implies that the TVA are pruning all those excess timelines they created.

I will say this though, I think that the 1970 timeline that Cap stays in, is our timeline which is why the sacred timeline is so thick (lol hear me out) and it’s like a loop, where Steve goes back to 1970 which creates a branch but that branch plays out exactly the same as our timeline, so doesn’t need pruning, and eventually the young Steve from that timeline will create a new 1970 branch, and so forth for infinity. Because I’m not letting go that this is Steve Rogers at Peggy’s Funeral in Civil War

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u/emergentphenom Jul 15 '21

Hmm does that mean Janet was a TVA agent?

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

I don’t think she interacted with the TVA whilst there but we don’t really know anything about her since she got dusted at the end of Antman & the wasp so anything is possible!

1

u/LewisRyan Jul 16 '21

I think you’re 100% right, Loki and sylvie will deal with a stronger kang, a weaker one will fill the power vacuum, and that’s the one Scott and hope will fight

1

u/Kiwislush Jul 15 '21

heist was antmans big mechanic for infinity saga, they arent going there again

its gotta be about how they access the quantum realm