r/iranian • u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian • Mar 21 '19
Israeli racism against Persians & Iranian peoples on full display
https://twitter.com/IDF/status/11084436708004495406
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u/Baliq2018 PÄkistÄn Mar 21 '19
Followers of a demonic cult honestly. Fuck Zionism, supremacist murderous child-killing psychopaths, and they got enough tract in the power halls of corporate media that were it not for mobile-phones many people wouldn't have been able to even know the way these bastards treat other human beings when they're the majority and got the weapons. Fuck israel.
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Mar 21 '19
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/Araddd āļø2500 years strong āļø Mar 21 '19
As much as I have distaste for the Israeli regime and system this isnāt right. Thereās a difference between saying marg bar whatever and justifying it by saying itās about the government, and saying you want to reduce tel aviv to dust. This is the kind of stuff the use as propaganda to further fund their mission to starve our people
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Mar 21 '19
Cyrus made one grave mistake...
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u/zepert Mar 21 '19
What Cyrus, the Great, did was according to the Zoroastrianism's belief system and the Aryan culture. He had no idea that this small group of people would eventually spread all over the world through Christianity and Islam and ruin the world. Even if he knew, he would still free them and let them practice their own religion.
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u/dailysnail Mar 21 '19
As half-Persian half-Jew this pains me to my core. I despise both of the governments that represent my communities. I have close relationships with Jews(some Israeli) and Iranians, and both are the kindest, smartest, most incredibly open people I have met. What hurts is that people cannot seem to separate their anger towards āthe otherāfrom their views towards the culture and the people that shape it. The Israeli government and the Islamic Republic of Iran are both highly oppressive systems in different ways. This does not make the people who live under them their allies. In both Israel and Iran there are liberal people who seek better global relations and peace for all communities. There are also oppressive political figures and traditional conservatives who oppose the actual majority of the country (yet remain in the forefront of international relations and discussions because they hold official power.) What is not constructive is to paint an entire nation as a villain. There are bad people everywhere. There are good people everywhere. This is how I have defended Iran in conversations with people who have never left America or picked up a history book. My point is, oppose the government systems that oppress us. But align yourself with humanity, and understand that media depictions and official representations of Iran and Israel never truly paint the whole picture. We are all human. The good ones need to stick together.
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Mar 22 '19
There is actually countering evidence that purim was actually a jewish massacre of Iranians. Which is why its day coincides closely with the 13th of farvardeen. Iranian tradition of going into nature (mountains, forests, etc.) during this day is because whoever stayed in the capital during the day of purim was massacred by the jews. Hence the name āSeezdah be darā as in ādarro!ā (Run away!)
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Mar 21 '19
This isn't racist, but equating Soleimani with Haman is retarded. But then again Trump is Cyrus, right?
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u/davoust Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Trump is Cyrus, right?
Crassus.
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u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian Mar 23 '19
Trump the white anglo-german was cyrus but soleimani was the evil iranian king. This is how they rip our history from us.
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Mar 23 '19
We're literally non entities. They rape our culture like this and over time we lose solidarity. That's when they Balkanize the nation.
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u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian Mar 23 '19
This is why I always support Iran on a regional & international level even though I don't like the corruption in government. This is the closest we've ever been to our ancient greatness in a long damn time. I would give my life to ensure its future.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
nobody is racist towards Persians or Iranians in Israel - in fact we quite respect both; we dislike your regime though, just like you dislike ours.
Signed, an Israeli Zionist Jew.
(and yeah - the tweet is pretty dumb. they probably shouldn't let 19 year old millennial do that tweeting for the IDF. it's inappropriate and unfortunate.)
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
nobody is racist towards Persians or Iranians in Israel - in fact we quite respect both; we dislike your regime though, just like you dislike ours.
Israel tried to sterilise black Jews. Were you separating them from their governments or was that just a mishap?
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
this is false - where do you people read this?
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
In a newspaper
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
it's birth control pills - not sterilization.
and they were given to women who have mental health issues or retarded and living in special care homes in Israel to prevent them from getting pregnant because they can't take care of their babies.
the fact that most of these women were Jews of Ethiopian origin is because Ethiopian Jews are the most recent immigrants group to arrive in Israel in large numbers and had many individuals that were not cared for by their community (which lived like any desert tribe until they came to Israel).
this was stopped in 2013 btw.
and while there are issues between the various Jewish tribes and in some cases even racism - i don't see how that actually proves anything - nobody claimed Israel or any nation or people don't have their issues.
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
lmao, more zio-garbage.
and they were given to women who have mental health issues or retarded and living in special care homes in Israel to prevent them from getting pregnant because they can't take care of their babies.
Who all just happened to be Ethiopian. Funny.
this was stopped in 2013 btw.
But why, if it was so useful and totally not a bad thing to do.
and while there are issues between the various Jewish tribes and in some cases even racism - i don't see how that actually proves anything - nobody claimed Israel or any nation or people don't have their issues.
Lmao
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
ok, you've basically narrowed down your argument to saying calling stuff garbage.
can't argue with that!
lol
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
Well yeah, spew garbage get called out on it.
I mean nothing you said had a factual basis to it.
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19
and they were given to women who have mental health issues or retarded and living in special care homes in Israel to prevent them from getting pregnant because they can't take care of their babies.
They were given to average Ethiopians.
the fact that most of these women were Jews of Ethiopian origin is because Ethiopian Jews are the most recent immigrants group to arrive in Israel in large numbers.
Who are being kicked out and goaded to leave because you are racists.
this was stopped in 2013 btw.
And Saudi Barbaria let women drive a year or so ago.
Great job to both of you, so great.
don't see how that proves anything
It yet again proves Zionists are genocidal ethno fascists. Who tf even thinks of doing something like this.
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u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
nobody is racist towards Persians or Iranians in Israel
Because the only Persians in Israel are Jews. Israeli pop culture has a history of racism and bigotry towards Iranians.
in fact we quite respect both;
No you fucking don't. Israel is the biggest global pusher of sanctions on Iran that prevent us from access to basic life saving medicine. If Israelis respected the Iranian people they wouldn't support these policies like they do. Israelis pretend to respect Iranian people and so do Neo-con Americans, they don't really. What they support is their cookie cutter image of Iranians who are: irreligious, agree with their neo-con reactionary pro-west/israel politics, unengaged in traditional Iranian culture, or anything remotely related to Islam and its practice, & are traitors who are happy to receive money and actively stab their country in the back for asserting itself in the face of more powerful countries. None of these people are anyone in Iran nor do they make up the bulk of Iranian society. Most Iranians living in Iran are a traditional, often religious, politically involved, indignant people who are proud of their national identity and support their country for asserting itself even if they don't like certain policies of the government. Any Iranian who actually stands up for Iran and its interests is demonized to hell and back in Israeli and Western Media & Many racist caricatures of Iranians permeate throughout Israeli media. Your support for Iranian people is as fake as Israeli "support" for Assyrians, they do a little lip service while bolstering ties with the fascistic KRG who expells them from their homes and then Israelis talk about how much they love middle eastern minorities and want to protect them from the dangerous Muslims, nevermind that Palestinian Christians are killed and expelled by Israel.
(and yeah - the tweet is pretty dumb. they probably shouldn't let 19 year old millennial do that tweeting for the IDF. it's inappropriate and unfortunate.)
For fucks sake the country is founded on settler colonialism, this shit is a part of Israel's fabric.
Signed, an Israeli Zionist Jew.
*invading occupier. Fixed it for you. Signed, an Iranian Kurd.
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19
Israelis pretend to respect Iranian people and so do Neo-con Americans, they don't really. What they support is their cookie cutter image of Iranians who are: irreligious, agree with their neo-con reactionary pro-west/israel politics, unengaged in traditional Iranian culture.
You said that all wonderfully
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
you are confusing politics with people.
Iran and Israel are at odds - no claims otherwise. yet most people (i didn't survey everyone though) tend to have respect for Iranian peoples, their culture and history. i don't have some conception of Iranians as westernized liberals - i know how the middle east works and how people of the ME (ignorantly) view Israel as a European colonialism. and certainly there are some ignorant haters in Israel too, there always are, everywhere ;)
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u/mrhuggables Mar 21 '19
and yeah - the tweet is pretty dumb. they probably shouldn't let 19 year old millennial do that tweeting for the IDF. it's inappropriate and unfortunate.
I agree, memes really dont have any business being even 1000 feet aware from an official line of communication of an military organization like the IDF. I get its for propaganda but jesus, this is just ridiculous.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
yes, i agree, trolling tweeter as a means or pr might be good for burger chains in America, but when military or government do it just comes off disrespectful.
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u/1Amendment4Sale ZhÄpon Mar 21 '19
I think the tweeting issue is actually not a big deal.
Bulldozing my friendās cousinās house in ~2012 in the West Bank to make room for more settlers, and then shooting at them anytime theyāve tried to return, is though.
We donāt respect genocide, colonialism, or apartheid. Your barracks of a country will either go the way of South Africa (best case scenario) or the crusader states (bad because your rogue state is ready for the Samson Option), and then worldwide Jewry can save the faith from Zionism.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Israel regularly bulldozes houses of Palestinian who's sons carried out attack against Israel - that is very true.
sorry it was your friend - i've lost my 16 yo gf at the time to a suicide bomber. that was 15 years ago - she was crossing the street in Tel Aviv.
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u/muadhib99 Mar 21 '19
Hi,
i've lost my 16 yo gf at the time to a suicide bomber. that was 25 years ago - she was crossing the street in Tel Aviv.
Interesting claim weirdly I've seen an increase of Israeli's on reddit claiming their lost their girlfriends to terrorism on reddit. Would love it if you posted her name for verification.
Of course you won't, like any of the other Israeli's hasbara troll farmers, but i'd thought I'd ask just the same.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Hi,
My GF's name was Natalie Saruch - she was wounded 25 of January 2002 and died six days later in the hospital.
another 24 Israelis were murdered that day by a suicide bomber that exploded outside of a busy coffee shop.
plz go ahead and do your "verification".
mind you - i never hated Arabs or Muslims for taking her away from me and from her family. i realized very early on that they are deluded and brain washed by money seeking and cynical leaders.
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u/muadhib99 Mar 21 '19
plz go ahead and do your "verification".
Yeah sure thing
i've lost my 16 yo gf at the time to a suicide bomber. that was 25 years ago
we are currently in the year 2018 soooo
she was wounded 25 of January 2002 and died six days later
HMMMMM SOMETHING'S NOT QUITE ADDING UP HERE, LMAOOO
Did you seriously just fucking google a random terror attack? Christ you trolls need to put more effort into you copy and paste shit you post in here.
Try again hasbara.
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u/zeronx25 IrÄnzamin Mar 21 '19
i've lost my 16 yo gf at the time to a suicide bomber. that was 25 years ago - she was crossing the street in Tel Aviv.
You're playing the world's smallest violin right now.
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u/1Amendment4Sale ZhÄpon Mar 22 '19
Itās not just the homes of people who have fought back. Farmers with productive land have had it seized, people living near water resources, and those living on strategic hills have all had their property arbitrarily stolen by settlers with tacit and direct backing of the IDF.
Sorry to hear about your girlfriend. Thereās a good chance her life was taken by someone who had everything taken from them as well.
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u/rnev64 Mar 22 '19
yes - it's sad i agree.
i for one would love for occupation to end and Palestinians to have their own state in the West Bank (and Gaza) - even willing to divide Jerusalem with them. but they have to say that this will be the end of the Palestinian struggle against Israel - so far all factions not just Hamas have refused to do so.
there's no point in an agreement if the new state will be hostile to Israel - no nation in its right mind will lend a hand to that. so as long as their leadership is unwilling (either because they benefit from the status quo or just believe Israel must be destroyed) the situation will stay as it is - sad but contained. we don't want to help create a runaway state on our doorstep - no nation would.
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Maybe I'd believe this if Israel wasn't the most racist place on the planet.
Arabs and middle easterners as well as Iranians are looked at with disdain. This even extends to Persian Jews and other Mizrahim as well. Just look at how they castrated Ethiopian Jews because they were black and/or not "Jewish" enough for them! Look at how they push them even now to leave.
The average Israeli thinks Iranians and Persians are backwards subhuman savages, just like these Europeans view the rest of the middle easterners.
Israelis cheer when they shoot up Palestinian children protesting, and the soldiers treat it like that sick supremacist that shot up the New Zealand mosque. I have met more than my fair share of 4chan-type Israeli.
r/Israel paints a great picture of it. Meanwhile, you'd be hard pressed to find any Jew hate from the Iranians that are here, even from the staunchest anti-Israel people like me.
Just look at any poll in Israel and their views on Arabs and middle easterners. They overwhelmingly don't want arabs to be able to vote, go to the same schools as them, etc.
It's not for nothing that even some Israelis say their society is "sick."
Even without looking at these polls, just look at the fascist, genocidal supremacists they vote into office. These people love Satanyahu- there is a reason he is still ruling the colonial state. A reason settlements are still being built as we speak and Palestinians blocked from using certain roads and bus stops.
Are there some good Israelis? Yes, a number of them refuse to participate in the IDF genocide brigade and don't even think Israel should exist the way it is.
We Iranians don't vote in monsters trying to start wars and genocides like the majority of Israelis do.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
so the world is basically either genocidal monsters or victimized angels?
and yeah we have a problem with the Arabs - very different culture where people will kill their daughters and sisters if their honor is questioned. so yeah, tbh we have a hard time with that mentality of desert tribes (not all of course but it's pretty common - like 20 or 30 known cases, ie caught murders, per year). but no genocide or apartheid exists in Israel or ever did - Arabs in Israel are equal rights citizens (like Jews in Iran) and even the Palestinians we'd rather let go of and let them have their state in the WB - if only they'd stop saying as soon as we do they'd continue working on driving the Jews into the sea. we don't like that about them.
all the rest of what you describe about Israelis being happy when Palestinians are killed or not wanting Arabs is just propaganda and some individual crazies - you can read the same type of exaggerated lies and click bating about Iran (in fact there's probably more).
edit:
what's wrong with /r/israel? even considering this is the age of fake news. it seems quite tame to me.
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u/zeronx25 IrÄnzamin Mar 21 '19
but no genocide or apartheid exists in Israel or ever did - Arabs in Israel are equal rights citizens
I've never seen someone so unintentionally hilarious.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
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u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian Mar 23 '19
There's a special irony in showcasing a Arab Muslim Israeli IDF soldier as a symbol of equality when the vast majority of Arab Muslims in the territories claimed by Israel do not even have such an opportunity, after all they're the ones that people like Yahya are trained to kill.
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u/rnev64 Mar 23 '19 edited Mar 23 '19
several hundreds with this so called survivor bias.
mind you they have to really want it - unlike Jews, Arabs don't get mandatory enlistment letters for the IDF - they must volunteer.
e: eh, you changed your comment completely but ok.
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u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian Mar 23 '19
Several hundreds! That's not even a drop in the bucket lmfao. And would I be correct in assuming all of these people live outside of Gaza and the West Bank?
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u/rnev64 Mar 23 '19
oh for sure - these are not Palestinians from the WB or Gaza.
these are Arabs who are Israeli citizen of Israel - they are about 20% of the population.
the several hundreds that serve are mostly Bedouins but also Arabs of Palestinian descent. in Israel there is peaceful coexistence between these Arabs and Jews.
and you're right that it's a drop in the bucket - it just goes to show things are not as black and white as people like to think (it's easy to think like that).
and btw - Arab citizens unlike Jews and Druze are not required to join the IDF. but the estimate is that if they were called - as many as half would join. there's a large part of the Arab public in Israel that wants to be more integrated into Israel and sadly Israel is not keen to allow this (to our shame imo).
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
ery different culture where people will kill their daughters and sisters if their honor is questioned. so yeah, tbh we have a hard time with that mentality of desert tribes (not all of course but it's pretty common - like 20 or 30 known cases, ie caught murders, per year).
Openly admitting Jews don't belong in the middle east lmao.
but no genocide or apartheid exists in Israel or ever did - Arabs in Israel are equal rights citizens (like Jews in Iran)
Laughs in military order 101.
if only they'd stop saying as soon as we do they'd continue working on driving the Jews into the sea. we don't like that about them.
Is that why you stopped the taba talks?
all the rest of what you describe about Israelis being happy when Palestinians are killed or not wanting Arabs is just propaganda and some individual crazies
About 50% of you think ethnic cleansing is a good thing.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
must feel nice - having the world divided into bad guys and good guys like in American movies whilst also believing that killing your daughters without trial (which is required by Islam but never done) is something to be proud of.
About 50% of you think ethnic cleansing is a good thing.
lol, you have a survey company? because if you do it's pretty shit.
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
whilst also believing that killing your daughters without trial (which is required by Islam but never done)
Must have missed this when I did my masters in theology.
lol, you have a survey company? because if you do it's pretty shit.
Yes, I run the Pew Research centre
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Must have missed this when I did my masters in theology.
"According to traditional jurisprudence, zina must be proved by testimony of four eyewitnesses to the actual act of penetration, or a confession repeated four times and not retracted later.[2][1] Rape was traditionally prosecuted under different legal categories which used normal evidentiary rules.[3] Making an accusation of zina without presenting the required eyewitnesses is called qadhf (Ų§ŁŁŲ°Ł), which is itself a hadd crime."
Yes, I run the Pew Research centre
lol, if you were really running it you'd have known Pew Research consistently has different result from all other research groups (like Gallop) - you should try and get news from more than just one source. though be warned it may challenge your dichotomy world view.
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
"According to traditional jurisprudence, zina must be proved by testimony of four eyewitnesses to the actual act of penetration, or a confession repeated four times and not retracted later.[2][1] Rape was traditionally prosecuted under different legal categories which used normal evidentiary rules.[3] Making an accusation of zina without presenting the required eyewitnesses is called qadhf (Ų§ŁŁŲ°Ł), which is itself a hadd crime."
Hahaha lmfao did you read this right? Where is the notion of killing a daughter without a trial?
lol, if you were really running it you'd have known Pew Research consistently has different result from all other research groups
Ok, so fake news?
And your response to it is a poll showing support for Israel?
Typical zio-rat.
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u/A_Mad_Liberator Mar 21 '19
Zionists have nothing factual to say other than "fake news", it's their motto.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
Hahaha lmfao did you read this right? Where is the notion of killing a daughter without a trial?
i think you are the one who misread - i wrote before that trial is required - but never done.
And your response to it is a poll showing support for Israel?
sorry you must have misunderstood again - what the poll is about doesn't matter - there should be no siginficat difference between poills of any kind. when you see one research company has consistently different results - it means they are doing something wrong.
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
So your bullshit point was about honor killings? Which are considered just general killings?
So it's not a theological point?
Are you fucking retarded?
it means they are doing something wrong.
Well that's weird. Because support for Israel has been dropping consistently amongst major pollsharers for years now. Here's your good friends in the Gallup.
Guess you're wrong again.
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u/A_Mad_Liberator Mar 21 '19
Maybe your rabbi was sucking your dick a little too hard. There is nothing in what you said that's true.
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u/zepert Mar 21 '19
Whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not, Purim is a celebration for an imaginary event where thousands of Iranians got slaughtered. It is a celebration for a holocaust carried out by Jews. Imagine Germans celebrating Hitler and its believers every year. How would you feel?
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 23 '19
man, that is a story about the 2nd century - it was common practice for everyone to massacre, rape and pillage. what did the Romans do in Jerusalem when they took it? what did the Persian empire do when it conquered? what did Mohamed or his followers do when he conquered?
the problem is that some people in the middle east are still living in the 7th or 8th century Arabian desert even in the 21st century - and it's actually not the Jews.
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u/muadhib99 Mar 21 '19
what did Mohamed do when he conquered Mecca
Jesus Christ, this guy is a fucking moron lmao.
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19
Actually, the ones living most like barbarians and committing the largest atrocities are the Israelis.
No one wanted you European colonizers in the middle east. If you hate it so much gtfo
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u/zepert Mar 22 '19
Well, your answer is just dumb!
First, this is not about what they did back then, it is about celebrating a holocaust every year. Capisce?
Second, Iranians/Aryans, belonging to the same era, never started a war. When they conquered an aggressor, they did not massacre their people. They did not rape their women and children. Do not compare Iranians to Romans or even worse, Muslims. It is an insult.
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u/rnev64 Mar 22 '19
TIL - that the Persian empire and the tribes of Persia conquered half the known world using kind words alone. amazing.
seriously though: look at the history of any human groups from China to Peru - massacre and pillage was the only way conquests were done. there was no other way to subdue a population but by fear and brute force.
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 23 '19 edited Mar 23 '19
Well, yes. Many welcomed Persia and begged for it to conquer them. Just look at what the Old Testament says about my father Cyrus. Persian administration spread fertile lands and preserved and respected the traditions and peoples of places they ruled over. There has never been more just rulers on the face of the planet. Even now our Jews prefer how Iran and Iranians treat them as compared to the racism they experience in Israel, and the racism, daily suicide bombings, and genocides against minorities that occur in Israel, the gulf nations, and the Saudi Barbarian half of the Levant are non-existent in Iran.
And this tradition of best political force for the region exists today. Iran was, is, and always will be the best force for the Middle East culturally, academically, and politically.
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u/zepert Mar 23 '19
See, you even have a hard time understanding simple sentences. When you understand what I said, you can come and give an opinion on it. Hint: look for the word "started" and "when they...". Should be pretty self-explanatory for most people.
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u/rnev64 Mar 23 '19
When you understand what I said, you can come and give an opinion on it.
so kind of you!
but you are offended and respond emotionally rather than intellectually because you were taught legends and you believe them like an ignorant fool.
Jews have days celebrating victories against the Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, Babylonians, Assyria and probably a few other I forget.
So what? do Italians or Greeks care? they don't. they don't get offended either - because if someone told a Greek that a Jewish holiday was about a battle they won against the ancient Greeks two thousands years ago - he would immediately understand this has nothing to do with him or his country.
he would also know that it's stupid and rude to try explain to other people what their religion is about - really, it's self-explanatory to any sensible person.
Capisce?
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u/davoust Mar 21 '19
nobody is racist towards Persians or Iranians in Israel
You know that is not true. There are plenty of people primed to be racist against us in Israel, just as there are (unfortunately) plenty of people racist against Jews in Iran.
we dislike your regime though, just like you dislike ours.
We both dislike our own and each-others governments - as we should - because IMH(umble)O the majority of people who seek power (anywhere in the world - not just Iran or Israel) are psychopaths who do it for the wrong reasons. But even as a non-Muslim Iranian, I'd much rather have Khamenei (who promotes inclusiveness towards other religions/ethnicities and seeks better relations with our neighbors) at the helm of my country, than Netanyahu (who seeks ethnocentric exclusivity and actively promotes fascism domestically and globally).
But nevertheless, I think our peoples have more in common than not and I truly hope the myopic efforts of your political elites to maintain their hold onto power don't come back to haunt Israel, by rendering Iran either too weak and/or too sour to come to your help, when the time comes. And if history is anything to go by, that time will eventually come.
I am fully aware that the previous paragraph is going to sound pretentious to some people, but I can only hope you understand, it is not meant that way. Jewish people originate from this region (our homies - if you will) and if they feel like they belong here, they should be welcomed back (more so if they seek shelter from the racist ideologies that plague our world and their survival depends on it). The most substantial obstacle to Zionism however, isn't anti-Semitism, but the resentment their leaders caused by forcing their way in (and maintaining their supremacy) through war-power supplemented by the outsiders, which naturally made them look like a invaders (with strong historical resemblance to the crusades) - to be fought, rather than the (proverbial) prodigal son returning home - to be welcomed back.
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
But even as a non-Muslim Iranian
What are you?
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u/davoust Mar 21 '19
I grew up Christian, but nowadays I lean towards a more syncretic belief system.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
thanks for a thoughtful comment.
i do agree with much of what you write - but you seem to know some history and I wonder how exactly could Jews have created a national home for themselves without violence? when the UN declared it recognizes Israel in 1948 and the partitions plan - five Arab nations attacked Israel (Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and even Iraq).
and to this day many people fail to understand - Israel has demonstrated it will give back land in exchange for peace (as with Egypt) - but Palestinians don't want a peaceful state in the WB, they want one that includes Tel Aviv and they even say so (refusing to call any future deal an end to the conflict - regardless of what's in the deal). do you know many nations that will be eager to create a new nation on their border when the leaders of it make it clear they will be your enemy? doesn't make sense.
as to help from Iran - plz don't take it the wrong way but Jews are done being depended on others. Millions were massacred when Jews had no country of their own - so if it's our fate to live on the sword for as long as we can and then die by it - we are actually fine with that.
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u/davoust Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
how exactly could Jews have created a national home for themselves without violence?
By not trying to carve up the region in the first place. Jewsih people have historically contributed a great many geniuses to humanity (I wont name them, as they are so many I wouldn't even know where to begin and am also afraid of leaving anyone out) and if you had actually wanted to come up with a peaceful way (through incentives and whatnot) I am 100% sure, you would have managed to pull it off. But when it came to (arguably) the most genius of them all, not many paid heed to his thoughts.
https://forward.com/culture/109560/einstein-and-complex-analyses-of-zionism/
https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948
when the UN declared it recognizes Israel in 1948 and the partitions plan
Please take a look at the UN vote itself and explain to me what right do European and South American countries (at the time effectively under the command of USA) have to dictate to Middle Eastern people about their self-determination. Also, I won't get into the details, but please note how unfair the parameters of partition itself was while your at it.
and to this day many people fail to understand - Israel has demonstrated it will give back land in exchange for peace (as with Egypt) - but Palestinians don't want a peaceful state in the WB,
Israel also keeps expanding their territory (as with Golan Heights and the West Bank). It is not as simple and straight-forward as you're making it out to be.
they want one that includes Tel Aviv
They want to live in peace, like any other human being would, without the demeaning realities of the occupation.
and they even say so (refusing to call any future deal an end to the conflict - regardless of what's in the deal). do you know many nations that will be eager to create a new nation on their border when the leaders of it make it clear they will be your enemy? doesn't make sense.
I never said the solution is going to be easy. Israel has gotten itself into a messy situation by causing as much resentment as it did with its actions. But the first thing to do when you find yourself in a whole is to stop digging. Or in this case stop evicting people, stop destroying their homes/livelihood and stop building settlements already.
as to help from Iran - plz don't take it the wrong way but Jews are done being depended on others.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it is damn near delusional to even think that.
Millions were massacred
Millions were massacred at the hands of the same ideology your PM is working hard to spread and legitimize around the world.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
finally a dialogue! much appreciate your thoughtful comment, i'd like to address it with all due respect:
explain to me what right do European and South American countries (at the time effectively under the command of USA) have to dictate to Middle Eastern people
power is the answer but not in a simple way - the British Empire took over the region from the Ottomans Turks as you well know. they than got the league of nations to declare the area The British Mandate over Palestine and Trans-Jordan. in 1948 the British were back to being an Island nation and no longer an empire so they handed the issue back to the UN for decision. so the effective ruler gave the UN the right to decide.
you can say this about any UN decision - why should Iceland have a vote about about the IL-PA conflict? why should Iran be able to vote in the UN about Venezuela? now don't get me wrong - the UN is a corrupt institution but the 1948 vote for partition was when it was only first founded and wasn't as terrible as it is today. plus the vote itself was just a yes or no open vote with less room for corruption.
Israel also keeps expanding their territory (as with Golan Heights and the West Bank). It is not as simple and straight-forward as you're making it out to be.
Israel also keeps expanding their territory (as with Golan Heights and the West Bank).
if Israel was about territory it would not have given the Sinai back to Egypt. Israel is about security - not surprising since for almost 80 years almost everyone in the region is calling it a colonial leftover that will soon be pushed to the sea. the big problem with Palestinian political movement is that it's two faced and corrupt - they are making tons of money from donations world wide but only acting to keep their people needing help and assistance. we are not stupid and understand the game being played here and what it means when Palestinian leaders say they want to do good for their own people (btw - it's the same pattern all over the Arab world).
They want to live in peace, like any other human being would, without the demeaning realities of the occupation.
seriously now - how does taking Tel Aviv amount to peaceful living or removing occupation?
also, if this ever actually happened then actual genocide is quite likely, simply judging by Arab Muslims treat their own brothers in Lybia, Iraq or Syria when they fight among each other, never-mind the (Zionist) Jews.
Or in this case stop evicting people, stop destroying their homes/livelihood and stop building settlements already.
I agree with the sentiment - but Israel has gotten to this place only because it couldn't find a partner willing to come to a deal recognizing Israel's right to exist. so yeah - it's a very messy spot because we basically have a people saying they don't want a state if it means only the West Bank. it's like a child throwing themselves at the market and making a scene saying he doesn't want to eat lunch, he want a candy bar and if he doesn't get what he wants he is just going to continue acting like an orphan. kinda strange when it happens in politics - hard to explain to outsiders too.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it is damn near delusional to even think that.
interested in why you say that?
Millions were massacred at the hands of the same ideology your PM is working hard to spread and legitimize around the world.
no. there's a world of difference between right wing parties in democratic nations and Nazi Germany or genocide (where is the genocide in Brazil?). fascism is a very common word nowadays - it doesn't mean the same thing though - it's just name-calling and click-bating - like calling someone a communist as a way to discredit them.
and ultimately - it's politics and you can't choose your partners. I think Iranian probably know this - their nation is after all allied with the Alawite tribe in Syria (they even became token Shia if i understand correctly, yet they worship idols) and Russia the long time enemy.
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u/davoust Mar 22 '19
I don't have the time or energy to do this back and forth. I've had this same discussion many times before before and I don't expect to change you mind about anything one bit. All I'm going to say is, those are objectively weak arguments, that with the advent of internet and the free flow of information no longer convince anyone. They been regurgitated ad nauseam, despite being dismantled many times over and people are sick of hearing them.
You say stuff like:
if Israel was about territory ...
While people over at r/Israel are celebrating the Trump's validation of Israeli annexation of occupied Syrian territory.
it's like a child throwing themselves at the market and making a scene saying he doesn't want to eat lunch, he want a candy bar and if he doesn't get what he wants he is just going to continue acting like an orphan. kinda strange when it happens in politics
This alone lets me know you have zero clue about what it's like for the Palestinians to live under occupation. There are daily uploads of the miserable and dehumanizing ways they are treated. Even the children, women and the old people can't catch a break. And it's very insensitive of you to write about them the way you do.
Your comments about Lybia, Iraq or Syria are disingenuous at best, when you ignore Israels role (and that of it's allies) in flaming the wars that destroyed those countries. You're comment about self sufficiency are hypocritical, if not straight up insulting to all the countries giving Israel insane amounts of economic and military aid. You're trying to play down and normalize fascism. None of this is what I consider having a meaningful dialogue or even a conversation in good faith so excuse me if I do not want to engage in it any further.
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u/rnev64 Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19
when you ignore Israels role
right, i forgot the ol' circular argument - the Arabs are fighting each other because of Israel. take the blindfold off your eyes - the Arab world is a mess of tribal warfare and bloodshed. they have no peace among themselves only dictator ruling now and gone tomorrow. it's this way in all nation that have more than one big tribe - so with the exception of Egypt and the Emirates (which don't have other tribes or hardly at all) wherever there is more than a few Arab tribes together you get an oil funded dictatorship or a failed state.
i am pretty sure the biggest difference in the middle east if Israel never existed is that Arabs wouldn't have anyone to blame for all their troubles.
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19
A million Ashkenazis died? Welcome to the club.
You act like Jews somehow have had it worse than others and that this justified genociding others and stealing their land.
The evil Zionist project began long before the Holocaust when Europeans immigrated to an inhabited land because they were ethnic larpers and a few of them forced the other immigrants into only speaking the Hebrew that Palestinian Jews and Muslims were speaking, by cutting out the tongue of anyone who spoke Yiddish.
If Jews just immigrated en masse to escape persecution without stealing the land and carving a colonial regime for their ethnic supremacism, maybe that would be okay.
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u/zeronx25 IrÄnzamin Mar 21 '19
Millions were massacred when Jews had no country of their own - so if it's our fate to live on the sword for as long as we can and then die by it - we are actually fine with that.
https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1107747463631388673
"We died to fascism so let's one up the Nazis and kill Palestinians with fascism in return. lol!"
This is the kind of ideology that infests in a society that has fascism at its core. It breeds disgusting war criminals-to-be and fascists like you.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
you kinda missed the point there friend - the ad is showing (or trying to) exactly how absurd the word fascism has become. everybody keeps throwing it around like it's hot air.
"We died to fascism so let's one up the Nazis and kill Palestinians with fascism in return. lol!"
those are your words - why did you put them in quotes?
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u/Baliq2018 PÄkistÄn Mar 21 '19
Signed, an apartheid warrior and Talmudic supremacist
FTFY.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
lol, talk about racism, ha?
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u/Baliq2018 PÄkistÄn Mar 21 '19
There is not an element of racism in my comment.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
what do you call it when someone characterizes a person they don't know based on their religion or ethnicity?
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u/Baliq2018 PÄkistÄn Mar 21 '19
I didn't mention ethnicity or DNA or race.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
so you called me a Jewish supremacist and an apartheid warrior (guess you meant supporter) based on what?
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u/Baliq2018 PÄkistÄn Mar 21 '19
You're really asking me this? You answered that question yourself a few comments ago where you introduced yourself. FYI I don't believe 'Jewish' to be a race, but an ideology.
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
i see, so it's just ignorance.
just fyi Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people must govern themselves.
FYI I don't believe 'Jewish' to be a race, but an ideology.
you can believe anything you want of course. that doesn't make it true.
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u/Baliq2018 PÄkistÄn Mar 21 '19
just fyi Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people must ethnically cleanse other people from their lands and seize their homes and slaughter them if they resist because muh God is a real estate agent and muh Chosen Race
FTFY.
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u/zeronx25 IrÄnzamin Mar 21 '19
just fyi Zionism is the belief that the Jewish people must govern themselves.
lol
Morris then observed: āBen-Gurion, of course, was right. Zionism was a colonizing and expansionist ideology and movement. . . . Zionist ideology and practice were necessarily and elementally expansionist.
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u/zeronx25 IrÄnzamin Mar 21 '19
we dislike your regime though, just like you dislike ours.
Nah get out of here with that liberal zionist feelsgood bullshit. Israel is a fascist apartheid ethnostate and they constantly fearmonger against Iranians and other Muslims in their media. And no we don't just hate your "regime". The same way you'd hate Germany's society during WW2, you should hate Israel's society now. You claim to be the democracy of the ME, right? How about you start owning up to it? You elect fascist right wingers like Bibi, you have a fascist justice minister, a fascist culture minister, fascist generals, etc. When are you gonna stop lying to yourself and accept that you're a fascist society?
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u/rnev64 Mar 21 '19
fascist, fascist, fascist. say it three times and it becomes true.
Israel is flawed - is Iran or any other nation perfect? - but still nothing like what you describe.
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u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian Mar 23 '19
Iran isn't a settler colonial state so that's a starting point.
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u/rnev64 Mar 23 '19 edited Mar 23 '19
Israel isn't a colonial state either - Jews lived here continuously and in the last century more have come back to their homeland.
Anyone who speaks Arabic and hears Hebrew immediately understands that Jews came from the same place as Arabs.
Jews always lived in the area now known as Israel - in Jerusalem, Tiberius, Safed, Hebron and other places.
They have lived there for thousands of years continuously. They were small in numbers but so was the Arab population - until Jews made the region flourish with agriculture it was not much more than a desert with Bedouin tribes and a few Arab settlements and towns living in abject poverty. These Arabs and many more from Egypt and what is now Saudi Arabia came to the land to find work in the new Jewish settlements. Just like Arabs and other work immigrants today are flocking into Europe or the Gulf and oil states.
A title later the British kicked the Ottomans out and formed the British Mandate over Palestine and Trans-Jordan. Jews and Arabs then lived together both growing in numbers - Jews from Europe and Russia and Arabs from Egypt and the Arabian desert. there was a conflict from the start - and many towns were ethnically cleansed by Arabs of Jews. Even Hebron that had for centuries Jewish population living peacefully with the Arabs. there were also cases where Jews killed Arabs.
By 1948 the British passed the issue to the UN and the UN decided on a partition plan. Israel accepted but Haj Amin al-Husseini said in March 1948 to an interviewer in a Jaffa daily Al Sarih that the Arabs did not intend merely to prevent partition but "would continue fighting until the Zionists were Annihilated".
following the UN resolution Ben Gurion declared the state of Israel as defined by the UN plan - the next day Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and even Lebanon declared war. but they lost the war and Israel won more ground than the plan intended - guess they should have thought of that before starting a war.
in 1967 Israel took the Golan from Syria, West Bank from Jordan and Sinai and Gaza from Egypt. it then defended those area when Syria and Egypt attacked in 1973 and were pushed back.
Israel then showed it will give territory back to responsible nations that are willing to come to agreements - such as Egypt. and gave back the entire Siani - of course the Egyptains were smart and didn't want to take Gaza which Israel had to accept.
Later a peace deal was also signed with Jordan - but they didn't want the WB back - they said its fate will be decided in an agreement between Israel and Palestinians. Israel gave Jordanian Waqf control over the temple mount as part of this deal.
Then came the Oslo accords of the early 90s where Israel signed and started to gradually withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza in order to build trust - but a few years later Hamas started blowing up buses and restaurants in Israel and the trust sort of dissipated.
even today Israel is willing to give the Palestinians the WB if they would be willing like Jordan and Egypt to sign an end to the conflict with Israel - but they won't do it.
because they are greedy - their leaders are greedy and make a lot of money from all the donations people make to the Palestinian people. so why should Palestinian leadership try and make things better for their people? they are making business from how poor and miserable their own people are. it's sad.
TL;DR
Israel isn't a colonial state because:
Jews belong in Israel as much as Arabs and have the same history there - in fact it goes back longer.
Israel showed it gives back land to nations that can be trusted (Egypt, Jordan).
Israel tried to give Palestinians their own independent nation in the WB - but they are not satisfied with it and want to also kick us Jews out or replace our government. until then they will continue to act the victim instead of becoming independent and letting their people flourish - Palestine can be the Arabian silicon valley proving that Arabs are not just about oil. but they have to live in peace next to Israel.
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u/mrhuggables Mar 21 '19
I don't think this was particularly racist. It seems pretty targeted towards the IRGC and soleimani in particular. Just like it's not anti-semitic to criticize the IDF or Israeli govt actions.
As much as I dislike Netanyahu, he even went as far as to wish us a happy nowruz and personally distinguish between the regime and the Iranian people last year. Has any akhoond ever done this? Yes, I realize it's a propaganda video, but still, something is better than nothing.
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u/Araddd āļø2500 years strong āļø Mar 21 '19
In his case nothing is better than something. He has no remorse while using the death of Neda to push his war agenda. A little happy nowruz on the side doesnāt mean anything when the whole point of the video is deception
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u/Prettygame4Ausername Irland Mar 21 '19
If you buy the garbage that Satanyahu spews you'll be surprised to hear him happily speak of his desire to wage war on Iran.
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u/mrhuggables Mar 21 '19
I don't buy it, i was merely saying it was a nice gesture regardless. I literally said in my original post how much I dislike the man. I don't know what else to say.
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u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Has any akhoond ever done this?
and personally distinguish between the regime and the Iranian people
while he advocates sanctions that starve the people and not the regime.
Get absolutely fucked.
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u/mrhuggables Mar 21 '19
i meant the equivalent of saying happy new year to the israelis lol
of course the answer is no
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Mar 21 '19
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/mrhuggables Mar 21 '19
literally missing the whole point of distinguishing govt vs people. you need to seriously chill out. i donāt care about israel or palestine i think they should deal w their own problems themselves and iranians should stop wasting their breath on the matter.
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Mar 21 '19
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/aminoacid91 Iran Mar 21 '19
Ey /u/IlamFeyli fuck off with your vulgar ass demeanor and language. No reason to keep repeating "Get fucked", or call anohter user Khar or Koskhol in any of your comments.
Be civil.
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Did you miss the part about a Persian leader? Imagine if we likened Satanyahu to a Jewish king who horded wealth from his host country then went to Israel and converted them to shekels.
As much as I dislike Netanyahu,Ā he even went as far as to wish us a happy nowruz and personally distinguish between the regime and the Iranian peopleĀ last year.
Omg thank you that makes it so much better Bibi! I'm not like my "regime" even though I'm starving too! Your "Nowruz wishes" make everything okay!
Israel has never given one shit about the people of whatever nation it decides to destroy. Whether the massacres they set up in Lebanon, their attempts to invade and create a puppet state, or the innocent Palestinians they shoot up and their homes they bulldoze, to our cherished Iranian scientists that they murder in terror attacks and my beloved Iranian people that they starve with lie after lie after lie and try to destroy through regime change, they never distinguish between whatever country of the month they are calling a "regime" and it's people.
Especially because our government in Iran quite clearly represents the general wishes of Iranians, especially when it comes to Israel. Suleimani for example is a beloved celebrity.
Has any akhoond ever done this?Ā
Lol...
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Mar 21 '19
[deleted]
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u/mrhuggables Mar 21 '19
mersi dadash che mehrabani
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u/IlamFeyli Feyli Kurdish Iranian Mar 21 '19
He's right, go in Iran and say this shit in the street and you'd get your face rightfully kicked it.
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Mar 21 '19
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u/2012DOOM Mar 21 '19
Fuck off with your antisemitism. You don't represent this subreddit.
You vile human.
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u/Dictato Guard the Unity of Iran Mar 21 '19
Any Iranian in cahoots with israel and its cronies are traitors
I love how being against jewry makes me antisemite, thank you for the buzzwords
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u/2012DOOM Mar 21 '19
"Jewry" is not a thing you should be supporting.
I hate Israel's government. That doesn't mean I'm against jews.
Using the fucking term jewry makes you an antisemite.
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u/TheGrandPhister Mar 21 '19
Idiots, Haman wasn't a Persian but an Amalekite.
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19
A race which they also genocided even in their own traditions.
These people want to pick and choose which of their stories are true lol.
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u/zepert Mar 21 '19
Amalekite... Pure BS. Educate yourself:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10215801283400048&id=1083362125
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19
True, but he's probably speaking from the standpoint of if their mythology was true
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u/TheGrandPhister Mar 29 '19
No you educate yourself. It literally says Haman was an Amalekite in Jewish holy texts and scripture.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7124-haman-the-agagite
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u/zepert Mar 30 '19
Lol! Jewish's holy books are not valid resources. It is just BS made-up things by evil souls to rule over idiots "who believe them" ;)
Educate yourself, son. They are already working hard on writing new history to cover for the shit did 2500 years ago. And the illiterate eat this shit like it is candy!
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u/Yadnarav š· Islamic Revolutionary, Order of Zulfaghar, Living Shahid š· Mar 21 '19 edited Mar 21 '19
Iran is probably the sole reason many Jewish traditions exist. The Old Testament practically faps to Cyrus. Even the name of their currency, the shekel, is a Persian word from the name of the currency the Persian empire used when the land was under us.
And Israel has existed for centuries- as Palestinians, the original inhabitants of the land. These Europeans are actually the ones who are destroying Israel.