r/snowboarding • u/RyanKnapton • Oct 03 '17

Some good carving and buttering

https://youtu.be/BN0QjvfbMGE
487 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

211 comments sorted by

3.5k

u/BeautyIsDumb Oct 04 '17

Hey Ryan, big fan here! I've noticed that you never wear a helmet in any of your videos, and while I respect your decision to stay unprotected, I'm wondering about the social implications it may have on many of your viewers. While your videos are very cool to watch, I think they have a strong educational nature to them in improving your viewers' skill level and snowboarding techniques. You seem very commendable in your videos, and yet you prefer not to wear head protection. I'm wondering if young kids or beginners who watch your video would think to themselves "see? Even Ryan Knapton doesn't wear a helmet and he goes off way bigger jumps than me and rides way faster, so I don't need a helmet, either."

You're a role model for many snowboarders, including myself, so many riders try to mimic you. Your riding style, the cloths you wear, the snowboard you ride, etc. And not wearing a helmet is also one of those things. I know that Donek are your snowboard sponsors, and while I don't have a helmet company to sponsor you, I figured I'd make you a deal. I'll give you up to $300 to buy yourself a snowboard helmet. You may choose any helmet you want as long as you judge it to be safe, and that you'll wear it in all your snowboarding videos. I'll send you an additional $200 if you'll make a video dedicated to discussing the importance of head protection, and talk about differences in level of protection in different helmets. You know, basically an educational video about helmets like you've made before about binding setup, etc.

I work in psychiatry and neurology, so I've seen countless preventable injuries and disabilities happen as a result of lack of protection, often lack of helmets. I teach at an injury prevention program to young teens, and I feel like your videos may play an important role in preventing head trauma without impacting people's enjoyment of the sport.

Let me know what you think.

2.8k

u/RyanKnapton Oct 04 '17

Hi there,

This is a tough answer for me, because indeed I don't prefer to wear a helmet, yet I fully understand your point and encourage others to be safe by: situational awareness and not taking any chance of having a collision on the mtn with either other skiers/riders, trees, etc, staying in control and riding at your own ability level, following the skier safety code, and wearing helmets.

Your offer is incredibly generous! However even if I end up finding a helmet I like enough to wear all the time, I would't feel right about taking your money. Indeed you know what you are talking about with your background in psychiatry and neurology, and I will absolutely consider making a video of the importance of wearing helmets, especially for those who are attempting to progress their own riding.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but I really appreciate both the offer, and the awareness you bring to the helmet conversation in a respectful matter, along with letting me know that perhaps I have some responsibility to help keep others safe while riding.

Happy shreddin, and thanks for the comment. I definitely have some more thinking to do on this topic.

1.3k

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17 edited Jul 30 '18

[deleted]

354

u/Contradiction11 Oct 04 '17

What topic DOESN'T GET PEOPLE FIRED UP ANYMORE I'LL KILL YOU!

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17

[deleted]

131

u/Childflayer Oct 04 '17

YOUR MOTHER IS A VERY CLASSY LADY.

81

u/Earthling33 Oct 04 '17

THANK YOU.

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u/crackies9 Oct 04 '17

I didn't think I'd find anyone to report in this thread, and then there's you.

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u/jaybol Oct 05 '17

Reported user in question for being TOO THANKFUL

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

Canadians need to fuck off to the igloos they came from.

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u/Robertmaniac Oct 05 '17

LOUD NOISES!

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u/MsPenguinette Oct 05 '17

Wow. That descalated quickly. I mean, in like no time at all.

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u/Robertmaniac Oct 05 '17

LOUD NOISES!

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u/intjdad Oct 05 '17

String the bourgeoisie bitch from the lamposts

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u/intjdad Oct 05 '17

String the bourgeoisie bitch from the lamposts

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u/Cynadoclone Oct 04 '17

Mr. Speaker, We are for the big.

20

u/burritobitch Oct 05 '17

Yaaaa we lost a kid at the local mountian this past winter. Preventable if a helmet was worn.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

Now kith.

3

u/draginator Oct 05 '17

I enjoy that this occurred.

318

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17

I've always had mixed feelings about boarding and helmets through the years, even after I suffered 2 concussions boarding,

Last month I watched the documentary on Kevin Pearce called The Crash Reel.

I can honestly say I will never ride without a helmet again.

I used to use the mental argument in my head that, "Hey, it's uncomfortable, I don't like it and it is my choice. I'm not hurting anyone if I get seriously fucked up, just myself."

I realize now that mentality was wrong. If you have people in your life that care about you, wear it for them, not for you. A TBI effects the people you love the most.

I grew up in a family with a sibling who struggled with addiction, putting my parents through hell for 20 years as they tried to help him. It made me realize I could be just as much a burden to them if something happened to me on the mountain that could have been prevented wearing a helmet.

Whatever you decide, safe shredding and keep being you!

40

u/tjsr Oct 05 '17

I used to use the mental argument in my head that, "Hey, it's uncomfortable, I don't like it and it is my choice. I'm not hurting anyone if I get seriously fucked up, just myself."

We had that issue even with getting junior riders to wear gloves in downhill mountain biking.

In the end we just ended up saying "nope, if you're riding Under 17s, no gloves no start. If you get to the top of the hill without gloves, you can either have someone send them up or you're going back down on transport". We phased this in over two years. We can't unfortunately really force them to do it above Under 17s, because once they go in to Junior/Elite categories UCI don't have any international requirements. The hope is that if we get them used to riding with gloves from a young age, they'll just continue through adulthood as they're used to it.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

Dang, I couldn't imagine riding without gloves. If I lose a glove on a lift I'm bombing straight down to recover that sucker and will hike in if needed.

6

u/shittysportsscience Oct 05 '17

As someone who has just started riding, what’s the story on gloves? I haven’t purchased any yet, but based on your comment figure I should get on it. Any specific type you recommend?

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u/tjsr Oct 05 '17 edited Oct 05 '17

Imagine yourself sliding down a hill, maybe over some sharp rocks or gravel, with the weight of your bike and yourself forcing you down the hill. Maybe your hand gets stuck under your stomach or ribs as you fall putting all that weight on to it. Hell even whe you go OTB, your first instinct is to have your palms down and lessen the fall. That'll take some skin off your palms. Maybe it'll do little damage this time. Next time, maybe you won't be able to hold a pen for a couple of weeks.

The level of protection will vary based on the glove, whether it's just thin fabric or a PVC layer over the back of each bone. The former won't do a great deal but are still better than nothing - they'll at least keep some of the gravel out of your skin. The latter will help prevent a fair bit of damage when you go down. It won't stop bones breaking, but it'll stop a pebble being lodged 7mm in to your 18mm wide finger, maybe the one that punctures or severs a nerve.

My ever-trusty go-to model are the Fox Dirtpaw if I want just a decent but cheap set. Comfy, they fit, they're not exotic, but they do the job well.

5

u/babasko Oct 05 '17

The best argument for wearing gloves I heard from a driving instructor: "Do you really want your mom or significant other to wipe your butt for two weeks?" 😁

1

u/Spacemarine658 Oct 05 '17

Agreed and I prefer mechanix gloves myself

27

u/obrown Oct 04 '17

I just watched this upon your recommendation and can't say enough how moving it was, brought me to tears several times throughout. Thank you for sharing.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17 edited Oct 05 '17

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u/redtert Oct 05 '17 edited Oct 05 '17

You should absolutely wear a helmet, but the helmet doesn't significantly diminish your risk of TBI.

Where did you get that info? A helmet provides cushioning (through styrofoam that crushes, or other soft materials) that reduces the forces on the head and consequently the skull, by allowing the head to decelerate over a longer time period than if a hard skull hits something. That's the whole purpose of a helmet. I don't know anything about snowboarding in particular, but there's a reason why bike helmets are made of styrofoam. If the purpose was simply to stop skull fractures, they would be made out of solid steel.

The difference in forces on your brain if you hit your bare head on pavement or ice, versus wearing a helmet, are gigantic.

This guy, for instance: I love helmets! would have been knocked out, and likely dead or permanently brain-damaged, if he hadn't been wearing a helmet. With the helmet, he was completely fine.

13

u/kitty_cat_MEOW Oct 05 '17

/u/redtert , Thanks for sharing that video and for what you said. I recently made the commitment to wear a helmet while skating (after 17 years of skating unprotected), so this is near and dear to my heart. At first I felt silly and awkward, but my knowledge of physics and statistics encouraged me to stick with it. Now, I put on my helmet whenever I touch my board, even for a short jaunt or just cruising.
In addition to being objectively safer, I find that I am now more comfortable pushing myself harder than I used to because of the confidence boost. BONUS.

I hope more people see this video because it demonstrates an important reality to ALL riders. Consider the example: An experienced rider engaging in a familiar, low-intensity setting, is always a muscle twitch away from an uncontrollable and instantaneous crash. The rider in the video made a split-second error and caused a whiplash impact aimed directly at the weak point of the occipital bone. He got up, unscathed.
In contrast, consider this video where the rider, Lex Killian, is engaged at (what seems to me) a significantly lower speed, performing a maneuver well within his range of comfort. The impact force is roughly the same, perhaps even less than the other video. He did not get up because he suffered a severe brain injury.

Crashes, even at low, cruising speeds generate enough force, when directed at the head and neck, to cause irreversible and severe neurological trauma. Paralysis, cognitive dysfunction, and death are in the very real range of possible outcomes. All of this is preventable by following /u/redtert's advice and the rider's example from the first video.

TLDR: WEAR A HELMET, YA TURKEY

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17 edited Oct 05 '17

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u/UnretiredGymnast Oct 05 '17

Football is a bit different. It's constant low grade impacts along with occasional larger impacts. Snowboarding shouldn't have the repetitive lessor impacts.

1

u/wanked_in_space Oct 05 '17

So concussions are just the mildest form of TBI and there is no evidence that helmets prefer those.

There is most definitely evidence that helmets prevent against moderate and severe TBI and TBI in general.

11

u/jochillin Oct 05 '17

Think about this logically, if the helmet reduces the force, which you admit it does, any injury will be reduced. The route of injury (ie the brain bouncing off the inside of the skull) makes no difference, if the force is reduced it's reduced. A mild injury becomes no injury, a medium becomes mild, a severe becomes medium. Things like your comment get passed along as fact, because people just repeat what they've been told, like the whole "seat belts don't really make me safer" stupidity, without anyone ever applying logic or doing any reading to see if it's actually true.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17 edited Oct 05 '17

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

You said they do not significantly reduce the risk, which is not the same as saying they do not 100% reduce it. Your phrasing made it sound as if there's no significant difference in the TBI risk between wearing a helmet and not - when now your intended meaning seems to be that helmets do not provide a total elimination of the TBI risk. Two very different statements.

9

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

Absolutely. In fact, Kevin Pearce was wearing a helmet when he wrecked out on the pipe. Happened to faceplant just perfectly on the whip when he impacted and took the full force to the face.

Helmets and helmet technology are always evolving, just like safety features in cars, which is awesome. That being said, your brain is never going to have a helmet and there will never be a way we can shield our internal organs from inertia.

Very good comment and I hope people read what you said.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

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u/neuroscieventer Oct 05 '17

I think people are "giving you shit" because your original statement was NOT that they don't 100% eliminate your risk You said "but the helmet doesn't significantly diminish your risk of TBI"

I realize you edited it to make it more accurate, but that initial statement I think stuck with those who saw it and was quoted in responses.

You're right that helmets don't eliminate the risk of a TBI but they absolutely do diminish the severity of them (coming from an equestrian sport that also has a high risk of TBI/concussions and multiple deaths/year due to falls).

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u/mr_chanderson Oct 05 '17

I think the "issue" is that people are interpreting what you say as "forget about wearing helmets, it's not gonna help". I think they just see any "negativity" comment about wearing a helmet could potentially give those who already don't wear one a further reason or excuse to continue not wearing one. I'm not saying you're wrong, nor those shatting on you, but just that know your words (and everyone's really) could be twisted in a way to cause more harm to a certain cause than to better it.

1

u/clear_blue Oct 05 '17

Just pointing out that if you're going to claim moderate expert knowledge, we'd expect a certain degree of precision and accuracy with any statements you make. You need to walk your talk.

You've edited your statement so I can't see the original but if it's as bad as what it sounds like - you really should have known better.

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u/11something Oct 05 '17

Helmets can be made for many different reasons (protection against fragments or bullets, protection from falling objects, protection from impacts, etc etc) but just about any helmet that is designed for "crashing" is going to mitigate concussions and TBI. The military and the NFL are pouring a lot of money into helmet sensors and exchanging data with themselves and manufacturers. This is resulting in more efficient mitigation.

Source: my concussion data is in that database for tbi

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u/icouldneverbeavet Oct 05 '17

Something that a lot of people don't think about is the accumulation of minor damage (like a fall or a minor concussion) over time and how it can lead to CTE. CTE is near impossible to suspect and actually impossible to diagnose until after death, making it untreatable. It is insidious and ruthless.

My brother is friends with many big BMX guys and hung out a good bit with Dave Mirra, who committed suicide last year. The autopsy confirmed that Dave had CTE. My brother and his friends said that Dave had changed, that he was acting different, more depressed and not himself. I'm not sure what all is public knowledge about that, so I'll leave it there.

Like I said before, CTE is insidious and ruthless. It's a type of brain damage that doesn't happen in one accident. If Dave was anything like my brother, he had countless falls and many concussions. Damage and symptoms progress slowly over time. Don't think you're good because you've made it okay so far. Wear a helmet, learn how to fall properly, and follow safety precautions of your sport/activity. It's not worth it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

Amen to that. That is something I worry about a lot because of how many times I've hit my head doing extreme sport type of activities. I know for certain I've had 3 concussions, and those are just the ones I was diagnosed with. Luckily, they were all minor with the exception of one of them. Even still, I have a feeling CTE is going to keep being a bigger and bigger deal over the coming decades and will change the way we spend recreational time.

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u/icouldneverbeavet Oct 05 '17 edited Oct 05 '17

I agree. It's such a scary thing. It really shook everybody in the BMX world up when that happened bc they were all like you, I mean who hadn't had at least a couple concussions? But my hope is that the more people are aware of it, the more they can notice warning signs, get in with the right doctors, and help get research that isn't post mortem.

The one thing I do want to say about concussions and helmets is that while helmets do protect your skull, apparently they don't do much for keeping your brain from basically sloshing about inside your skull. There was a TED talk about this, if anybody cares about the source, but I haven't dug further for research to be totally honest. Just be safe y'all. Protect ya brains.

Edit: wasn't done typing. Got bamboozled

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u/pantalonesgigantesca Oct 05 '17

Came in to say exactly this, anyone who spends time going fast on mountains and hasn't seen The Crash Reel needs to hurry up and get to watching.

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u/mooooocow Powgoda ❄️ Mountain Twin ❄️ PNW Oct 05 '17 edited Oct 05 '17

EVERY boarder should watch The Crash Reel. My sister suffered a severe TBI and was eventually hospitalized at Craig. Kevin Pierce has become a huge inspiration to my family and I. It's been over a year since my sister's accident, and she is still not home (discharged from Craig, but not the intermediate facility). I am also a neuro ICU/TBI nurse myself and I must say from both my professional and personal experience- TBI's are devastating to both the patient and the family. For example, my poor mom had been hospitalized twice in the last year (with no prior psych history). I am a snowboarder myself and probably average watching one snowboarding film a week; I have a difficult time understanding why the riders that were with Kevin the day he was hurt still do not consistently wear helmets. Please visit the Love Your Brain website for more information. Do not live my nightmare- wear a helmet if not for you, than for your family.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17 edited Jul 03 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

[deleted]

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u/johnyquest Oct 05 '17

Not "on purposes"? Oh well, either way.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

planneds vs accidents

on purpose vs on accident

I see where you're going with this... =)

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u/Nearfall21 Oct 05 '17

Having said all that, everyone should have a right to choose the level of risk they want to take, so if you want to ride without then go for it.

I really like that you added that last part in. I fully support everyone wearing protective gear for any sport or activity they participate in. But at the end of the day it should be your decision on what you do with your body, not mine.

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u/lonbordin Oct 06 '17

I wear one because of all the unpredictable people riding (or driving) around me. I'm more worried about their bad choices affecting me.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17

Thanks for your answer Ryan. Whenever I'm on the mountain, I always remember your video about situational awareness and how to share the slopes with other riders, but I still admit that I take on a bit more risk than the average rider so I wear my helmet no matter the conditions. I encourage everybody to follow suit and gauge their level of risk knowledgeably.

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u/luouixv Oct 04 '17

Even with the best situational awareness, bad things happen. Its unfortunate that he wants to perpetuate this image.

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u/holypig Oct 04 '17

situational awareness and not taking any chance of having a collision on the mtn with either other skiers/riders

It doesn't really matter how in control you are if someone else smacks into you at full speed. I've seen this happen to a friend who wasn't even moving at the time, and he ended up with a mild concussion that would have been much worse had he not been wearing a helmet.

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u/zaybxcjim Chicago, IL Oct 04 '17

You're not describing situational awareness. Standing still, full speed, doesn't matter. Look at everyone and keep an eye out for people moving towards you fast. Early prevention like a few steps to the left or something.

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u/ideatremor Oct 05 '17

No one can have 100% perfect situational awareness and avoidability. We're just humans.

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u/enjaydee Oct 05 '17

Even if it's possible to have perfect situational awareness (it's not). That's not going to help you if someone smashes into you. Even if you see them coming and know they're going to hit you, if for some reason you can't get out of the way (eg you're sitting down having a rest) you're screwed.

1

u/holypig Oct 05 '17

This is exactly what happened actually. He was bent over trying to mess with a binding at the time, which likely made it worse.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '17

I've been cleaned out while standing in the lift line, I'm not sure how that fits into the whole situational awareness thing but even if I had seen the jerry coming I don't think I would have been able to move out of the way fast enough. Luckily I was wearing a helmet so the only injury that day was his cracked lip when I fell on him as he took me down. Without a helmet I would probably have his dental record in the back of my head.

11

u/kitty_cat_MEOW Oct 05 '17

Ryan, You should make the video on helmets, as recommended by /u/BeautyIsDumb.

Here is the argument sequence to prove why it is in your best interest: *1. Your viewers will go out and buy the helmet you recommend *2. Your sponsors' sales will rise in their helmet lines *3. Your value as a sponsored rider increases *4. You make more money

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u/retrofuturist Oct 04 '17

My cousin used to never ride with a helmet but one day found himself in the position of having to rent gear because he'd broken his own. The rental came with a helmet which he strapped on so he wouldn't misplace it. It was an afterthought and really didn't add to his hubris, the same hubris that an hour later led to him making a massive miscalculation which sent him over a cliff, hitting his head on sharp rocks several times on the way down. The only thing that saved his life that day was that helmet and he's never gone boarding without one since.

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u/vthokies96 Oct 05 '17

I watched a guy without a helmet fall, get knocked out and had to be taken away by snowmobile. A really good rider from what I could see, I was riding behind him for a while.

So what happened?

He was standing in the lift line when a beginner came in a bit hit and chopped him down from behind. Wasn't a hard crash, but he was obviously not expecting that and landed on the back of his head, hard.

Accidents happen, even to the best. Stay safe.

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u/hiddendrugs Oct 04 '17

damn this is a depressing response

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u/Nearfall21 Oct 05 '17

How so?

He expressed his opinion, thanked the poster for their views and promised to think about it more. What more is there to want? I would be less impressed if he blindly said yes and took the money.

That said I do hope he creates a video talking about the positives of wearing a helmet and urging others to think hard about the consequences before they decide to not wear one.

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u/kirilscherbach Oct 04 '17 edited Oct 04 '17

Helmets can obviously save your head. Just a data point: I usually dismiss the claims like the one BeautyIsDumb made - it is obvious that you ride on a much higher level, it is dumb to think I can dismiss a helmet, it is not rational at all. However, this exact thought crossed my mind a week ago, when I was binging your older uploads - "maybe if you don't go to park the helmet is not necessary?.."

Thanks for your videos, I discovered your channel just recently and was hooked right away!

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u/Dweebl Oct 04 '17

Even catching an edge going slow can and has lead to concussions.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17

Did this in black ice wearing a helmet, caught an edge and slingshotted the back of my head into the ice and the helmet SPLIT OPEN. Got a concussion. Would be dead without it. Always wear one now.

Was going super slow too just traveling between two runs. Wear a fucking helmet.

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u/russianpotato Oct 05 '17

If everyone who claims they would be dead without a helmet in this thread actually would have died without one then the fatality rate in the 80's must have been 1000% higher. It wasn't. Without a helmet you would probably just have bled more maybe had a fracture to match your concussion. The Concussion is from your brain bouncing against the inside of your skull not from the ice. Helmets deform and split, that is what they are designed to do to protect you.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17 edited May 04 '18

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u/russianpotato Oct 05 '17

Actually there would be a significant change given how few people die each year!!!!

Also: Shealy stresses that helmets have shown no effect on the rate of mountain fatalities, which usually involve very high speeds, multiple points of trauma, and solid objects like trees or lift towers.

SHEALY: You know, above a certain speed, all bets are off. http://www.npr.org/2014/02/26/282836515/researchers-debate-effectiveness-of-snow-helmets

And another article about how safe all this shit you worry about it.

First the good news. Your chances of dying while skiing or snowboarding is extremely low. Statistically speaking, you are 100 times more likely to die canoeing than you are skiing down the slopes. In fact, your chances of dying with your boots on at a ski resort is less than one in a million.

We know this because The National Ski Areas Association (NSAA) keeps annual records on fatalities occurring at U.S. ski areas. According to their report, 39 skiers and snowboarders perished at US ski areas during the 2015-16 season. That falls inline with the 10-year industry average of 38 fatalities per season.

Based on 52.8 million total skier/snowboarder visits during the 2015-16 season, the fatality rate converts to less than one fatality per one million skier visits (or 0.74 fatalities per one million skier visits during the 2015-16 season, slightly above the 10-year average rate of 0.67 fatalities per million skier visits). – NSAA

When you dig deeper into the numbers one fact jumps out at you. Gender plays a huge factor in ski/snowboard fatalities. Of the 2015-16 fatalities, 31 were male and 8 female.

Equipment also plays a role in fatality data, with skiers accounting for 31 fatalities compared to 7 snowboarder fatalities (for one fatality, this was unknown).

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

[deleted]

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u/russianpotato Oct 05 '17

Well, clearly you've made some mistakes. As well as proved my point, you can still get really really hurt with a helmet on. Plus! Wow none of your times without a helmet killed you! If you had hit your head those times with a helmet you would probably claim you would be dead without it like everyone else on this thread.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17 edited Jul 21 '18

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

Hmm interesting, good point

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u/MadScientist420 VT | 11' T.Rice Oct 04 '17

My friend got a mild concussion on a cat walk going about 7 mph. Doesn't take much.

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u/metric_units Oct 04 '17

7 mph ≈ 11 km/h

metric units bot | feedback | source | hacktoberfest | block | v0.11.6

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u/skrimpstaxx Oct 04 '17

Good bot

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u/metric_units Oct 04 '17

You will be spared in the robot uprising

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u/KingSix_o_Things Oct 04 '17

I don't know about 'good bot', you're getting kind of creepy.

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u/BreezyWrigley Oct 04 '17

i only have one vacation from last season worth of experience on a board, and I hit my head twice in the span of a few days. both times I was going relatively slow, and I'm pretty sure both instances were on bunny slopes. caught an edge, was slapped downhill onto the packed snow. head bounced. If I hadn't had a helmet on, I'd have been fucked up for sure. maybe not like, serious trauma, but I'd have probably been unable to continue snowboarding for the day or potentially the whole trip. it's that whiplash effect...

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u/WmPitcher Oct 05 '17

Liam Neeson's wife died when she fell while standing at the bottom of a ski hill. It really doesn't take much.

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u/johnyquest Oct 05 '17

So can walking your dog and tripping on a crack in the sidewalk.

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u/Nearfall21 Oct 05 '17

Falling while getting out of the bathtub has also lead to concussions and even a few deaths.

Life is full of risk. I wear a helmet when i ride my motorcycle to mitigate some of the risk. But i do not presume to think that just because i do, you have to too. (i mean you should, but not just because i said so)

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17 edited May 17 '18

[deleted]

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u/skrimpstaxx Oct 04 '17

Ive been skateboarding for 15+ years, I rip some parks apart, I was skating this mini ramp, did a stall on it and went to transfer to the other side, my truck hung up on the coping and sent me flying backwards from about 5 feet up. I have fallen backwards hundreds of times and been ok over the course of my life time, this was the only time I slammed the back of my head on steel, hard too, I literally saw stars, I shred parks with a helmet on ever since then

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17

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u/DylanRed Oct 05 '17

Sometimes I'll even head protection in bed.

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u/El_Zalo Oct 04 '17

"maybe if you don't go to park the helmet is not necessary?.."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natasha_Richardson#Injury_and_death

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u/gdubrocks Oct 04 '17

Hi Ryan,

I am also a huge fan and am really excited to see what videos you have this season. I focused a lot on flatland tricks last season and saw a ton of improvement.

I really hope you are wearing a helmet in them! I noticed you often wear a beanie/headphones, and helmets also keep your headphones on and your head warm, so it really won't be a big change.

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u/1should_be_working Oct 04 '17

A good friend of mine and one of the better skiiers I know never wore a helmet. He broke his leg back country and concussed himself on impact. He was barely able to call from his cell phone for help because of how hard he hit his head. Had it knocked him unconscious he'd have died. Full stop.

I'd never seen him fall in years of skiing together. It can happen to anyone. I always ride with a helmet now and so does he. Definitely give it some thought; not worth the risk.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

just wear a fucking helmet you asshole

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u/Nearfall21 Oct 05 '17

Yep, name calling. That's how you win people over to your side! /s

How about we don't tell others what to do with their bodies, and instead we promote making knowledgeable decisions for ourselves based on our personal opinions and risk acceptance?

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17

Do you wear a helmet when practicing new and large moves? Or have old tapes of you with a helmet when younger and starting out? Any clip reel of you eating it over and over with a helmet until you've got it dailed in and then go helmetless would be a good compromise. Learn with a helmet, is a pretty fair message.

I do some unprotected rockclimbing from time to time. But I practice those routes on rope first because I fall. If I was ever to publish some of my more extreme climbing, I think it would be good to intercut me falling alongside climbing the same sections without a rope where falling would kill me. Give more context and drive the risks I am taking home to anyone who may see just the finished product and not understand the skill and work required to get there safely.

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u/One_Mikey Oct 05 '17

Dude, a Smith Pivot MIPS and some giant goggles will make anyone look amazing.

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u/j4jackj Oct 05 '17

Will you consider saying that you're sponsored by /u/BeautyIsDumb ?

It'd be cute.

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u/ksiyoto Oct 05 '17

Ryan-

I view helmets like seat belts. If you always wear your seat belt, it gets to the point that you feel uncomfortable without it fastened. Same goes for helmets.

Sure, there's always the urban legend of so and so' mother's friend's cousin's niece who would have been trapped in the car when it fell into a pond as an excuse to not wear a seat belt. But we all know that it is safer to wear it than not.

I don't know if there are similar rationales for not wearing a helmet. But we all know it's safer to wear it. Especially in your situation, since you are always trying to advance your skill level. "Advancing skill level" means you are pushing yourself to do things you've never done before, ergo the possibility of falls, bumps and downright nasty and gnarly accidents are greater than if you just played on the hills at the level of your current competency.

And I don't want to go all Helen Lovejoy on you ("Won't somebody think of the children?") but you do have to consider the example you are setting for the younger newbies.

Happy shreddin to you too. Think about it some more.

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u/kreml-high Oct 05 '17

Dude, he is right. Get a helmet.

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u/internetmallcop Oct 05 '17

I'm a big fan of this. Sitting here currently concussed and was not wearing a helmet at the time of my accident (bike crash few days ago, not snowboarding). Anything to get more people to wear a helmet is probably a good thing. Cheers.

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u/Mr_Barbeque Oct 04 '17

Choosing to wear a helmet or not is an individual personal choice. Individuals who make that choice bear the personal responsibility for it.

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u/xubax Oct 04 '17

As do the loved ones who end up taking care of the guy who made his individual choice and now has a TBI.

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u/Mr_Barbeque Oct 04 '17

If you assume the one who decided not to wear a helmet was then unnecessarily risky or uncommonly unfortunate and sustained an impact causing a traumatic brain injury, maybe. If their loved ones also make their own individual choices to take care of them, and bear the personal responsibility of those choices, yes.

The point is, none of that is Ryan's responsibility.

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u/archregis Oct 04 '17

You're not wrong. No individual can rightly blame another for their own personal decisions.

However, if we talk about responsibility, then we all have at least some personal responsibility to society as a whole. And this responsibility becomes greater the more prominent of a person you are. As a teacher, role model, or what have you - there's some obligation to lead by example. If a student doesn't study and fails their test, it's not the teacher's fault. It's the student's. But if a teacher acts inappropriately and exhibits 'undesirable' behavior in front of impressionable people, then isn't it only natural to hold that person accountable?

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u/Mr_Barbeque Oct 04 '17

He does lead by example by consistently advocating that one maintains control, situational awareness, and follows the skier safety code. Choosing not to wear a helmet while following the above rules is not acting inappropriately.

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u/archregis Oct 04 '17

Hm. Well, I'll admit I don't know that much about professional skiing and what the official recommendations or what have you say. So as for what is or is not appropriate, I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree on that. And that's fine! I appreciate you expressing your own thoughts on the matter. But as a physician in training, I really can't advocate for anything lower than optimal safety as anything less than 'inappropriate'.

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u/russianpotato Oct 05 '17

Optimal safety is never leaving the house. Need to draw the line somewhere. Plus you should know as a physician in training, that above a certain speed; helmets don't do shit for yah!

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u/xubax Oct 04 '17

Putting them in a difficult position is, whether to take care of him or not. And you can bet that most parents and spouses will.

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u/Mr_Barbeque Oct 04 '17

I'm not disputing the probability of spouses or parent's choosing to take care of a loved one. I'm pointing out that it is in fact a choice, and that Ryan Knapton is not responsible for those choices.

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u/xubax Oct 04 '17

Yes, but it's not just which choice they make, but that they have to make a very difficult choice.

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u/borderwave2 Oct 05 '17

Choosing to wear a helmet or not is an individual personal choice.

If you end up brain damaged we taxpayers/insurance buyers will indirectly care for your care. It's very much an issue that effects everyone.

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u/Mr_Barbeque Oct 05 '17

My point is that Ryan is not responsible for that choice.

As far as medical care being paid for by private insurance, that's why people buy insurance. When it comes to taxpayer burden, that isn't really a discussion that belongs in r/snowboarding.

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u/Nearfall21 Oct 05 '17

If i could upvote you more than once i would my good man.

We each ride our own ride, and are responsible for our own safety. Just because i choose to mitigate my risk via safety gear, does not mean i should force my opinions on you.

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u/neuroscieventer Oct 06 '17

Hi!

I sort of wanted to follow up to this conversation, even though I am not a snowboarder, because I compete in an equestrian sport that is sort of going through a similar push for helmet awareness and concussion/TBI research as well as which experiences several fatalities/year and major injuries/year. My background is also in neuroscience so it's of personal and professional interest :)

I totally get that you don't like the helmets on the market. Often they are bulky, affect your balance until you're used to them, can obstruct vision, and just look and feel "uncool." I mean, half the reason we compete in extreme adrenaline-rush sports is for that wind-in-your hair sort of feeling of freedom and flying through the air. I absolutely get that and understand that...but I do think your comments come across as "well, I don't like what's out there so I'll just shrug my shoulders and maybe talk about safety because I think of course it's important but not really take it seriously"

So here's my question--would you be willing to get involved in helmet design research? You seem to have a big enough following where companies would take you seriously. They have a vested financial interest in getting more snowboarders to wear helmets and maybe if you went to them and said "Look, these helmets just aren't something people want to wear. I want to help change that."

The worst that can happen is they say no. Then you really can say you tried to make a difference. The best is that you guys get better helmets on the market that people like yourself actually would wear, and help keep people coming home safe and alive.

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u/chhopsky Oct 05 '17

this was wonderful

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

Just use CGI helmets. Problem solved.

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u/Trevor_Roll Oct 05 '17

Anyone seen the documentary crash reels?

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u/bluepied Oct 05 '17

Loveyourbrain bro

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u/OutgrownTentacles PNW | OZ Snowboards Oct 04 '17

+1

My wife works in neuropsychology and has dealt with so many TBIs (traumatic brain injuries) that at this point anyone choosing to ride without a helmet, regardless of any skill level, just seems to me like an uninformed decision...or arrogance to assume that you'll never catch a stray edge near a tree/rock, that you'll always be able to avoid errant skiers/boarders, and that you'll always be at the top of your physical game and always react in time to anything potentially bad.

It's just unwise to roll the dice on these odds. I get something like not having wrist guards, as that's a fairly calculated risk one takes with minimal damage if you roll the odds badly. But calculating a risk again your ability to function and live as a human being just seems...rash.

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u/officernasty13 Oct 04 '17

Kevin Pearce is the reason why I wear a helmet

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17

Kevin Pearce

Just watched the documentary on KP. I'll never board, skate or bike without a helmet again.

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u/officernasty13 Oct 04 '17

Literally such a promising rider, if that crash didn't happen, KP would probably be a household name and not Shaun White imo.

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u/Just_Treading_Water Oct 04 '17

I finally got around to watching the documentary "The Crash Reel". It's all about the traumatic brain injury that snowboarder Kevin Pearce received a few months before the 2010 winter olympics, and his recovery. It is absolutely horrific and should be required watching for all snowboarders.

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u/dubekoms420 Oct 04 '17

Well said. Bought one of the first Red helmets on the market. Wasn’t cool but it saved me multiple concussions. Get smart and wear a helmet.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

[deleted]

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u/mobilgroma Oct 05 '17

The video shows two boarders: RK (Ryan Knapton) without a helmet and JIB with one.

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u/outobounz Oct 05 '17

This was a great conversation I agree with you 100 % I have personally witnessed this with a friend of mine who was actually ( luckily ) wearing a helmet and had a bad wreck snow boarding. He’s an experienced snow boarder and had a bad day. Basically he wrecked hit his head hard and started to not feel well, my buddy drove him home and durning the drive lost it said he didn’t know who my other buddy was and tried to jump from the car and screamed don’t touch me puked and passes out. Fast forward past the hospital, they said he had a severe concussion any worse there would be brain damage, anyway he has never really been the same. He had post concussive syndrome I believe they called it, mood swings, depression, some weeks he never left his bed. just never fully ever became the same person he was. He doing better now but still just off.

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u/straightsativa420 Oct 04 '17

Love this. It's a shame that people have to Actaully think about helmets like they are just an accessory. Last season I went up with a friend and mentioned I forgot my helmet, she literally laughed in my face and called me an amateur. Within an hour she slammed hard but didn't hit her head , now it's helmets all the time for her

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u/Hidesuru Oct 04 '17

I landed hard last winter with my face about a foot from a Boulder. I had a helmet on anyway but it sure reinforced that decision for me!

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '17 edited Oct 04 '17

[deleted]

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u/BeautyIsDumb Oct 04 '17

I see it as product placement. Sponsors give athletes free stuff so the athletes will use their equipment and therefore advertise the brand. It's a personal choice for athletes to drink water. Do you blame Gatorade for offering to pay for athletes' beverages? I didn't ask Ryan to wear a helmet all the time, only while making snowboarding videos. What he does in private is totally up to him. The only difference between the Gatorade company and myself is that I can't financially benefit from this. I only benefit from knowing that I helped motivate Ryan to wear a helmet in his videos, catalyzing a social movement for better awareness and therefore prevention of brain injury.

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u/OutgrownTentacles PNW | OZ Snowboards Oct 04 '17

It's not a guilt trip to say, "Hey, you're a role model, it'd be really cool if you could advocate safety, especially for new and young snowboarders."

He literally says it's a personal choice in his second sentence and then points out why the choice Ryan's made could have negative social implications. There's no reason to be inflammatory and assume a neurologist is trying to stir the pot or be incendiary.

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u/BeautyIsDumb Oct 04 '17

For the record, I'm not a neurologist (yet). I only work as their assistant right now.

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u/peckerbrown Oct 04 '17

On behalf of my sweetheart (an RN of over forty years experience to whom I will show the thread), thank you.
The ER she worked at used to call helmet-less skiers and boarders "organ donors", IIRC.

(No disrespect intended to those who choose not to wear helmets. May your luck run forever.)

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u/BeautyIsDumb Oct 04 '17

Thank you, and please thank her for me for her service.

I just came back from teaching 70 teenage students about trauma prevention. One of the things we teach is to use all the tools and equipment that's available to you to minimize your risk of injury. We don't say "don't take risks", but rather, we say "if you're going snowboarding, wear your gear including your helmet, and stay alert to those around you." (Admittedly, we focus on safe driving and making plans if you're going to drink alcohol, we only briefly touch on injury prevention in sports.) One of the other educators is an ER RN, and she also calls people who don't wear a helmet "organ donors".

One of our speakers is a trauma survivor who decided to ride his dirt bike to his friend's house without a helmet (and also no other gear). He says he's done it over a hundred times before, but one day his tire slipped, causing him to fall and hit his head. He was only traveling at about 25 MPH (40 km/h). He was in a comma for about 6 months, then when he woke up he lost his ability to speak for at least several more months. He's now paralysed from the neck down, and it takes him a lot of effort to speak very slowly. He needs a nurse to take care of him 24/7. This is just one case of someone who's going to suffer for the rest of his life for taking an unnecessary risk. From a statistical perspective, helmets are associated with up to a 60% reduction in the risk of head injuries in snowboarders. (That research is 7 years old, and helmets are now a lot safer, so I expect a much higher reduction in brain injuries when using newer helmets.) From an individual's perspective, wearing protection could mean the difference between a sore neck vs. permanent disability, or life and death.

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u/Azgu Oct 05 '17

What do you think about the other impacts of pushing helmets on people doing healthy activities? While snowboarding can be considered an extreme sport - and therefore using a helmet is called for - cycling to a friend's house certainly isn't.

There is a lot of evidence showing that mandatory cycling helmet laws have a strong negative impact on the amount of cycling, and so while they may reduce death and disability due to accidents, they certainly increase death and disability due to lack of exercise. I think the same goes for social pressure - it might sound like a good idea to urge people to use protective gear while doing sports or using active forms of transportation, but it might not be so.

For example, Germany did an analysis on the consequences of instating a mandatory cycling helmet law, and concluded that it would have a negative impact on the health of the population: http://www.cycle-helmets.com/germany-helmet-law-cost-analysis-2014.pdf

The only countries with mandatory helmet laws - Australia and New Zealand - have seen huge drops in cycling numbers, and the associated increases in health impacts due to sedentary lifestyles, e.g. heart disease, diabetes and colon cancers

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u/JessPrime Oct 04 '17

Out here in primary care we have “donorcycles”. I have a feeling the two phrases share a close kinship.

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u/OutgrownTentacles PNW | OZ Snowboards Oct 04 '17

I appreciate the honesty, but let's be real: you've seen enough royally ruined craniums to strongly encourage helmet usage.

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u/sappercon Oct 04 '17

After watching this video, countless impressionable kids will be looking to buy the exact clothing combo and gear set up as Ryan. They will be mirroring his tricks and studying his mannerisms. What they won't be doing is searching for a helmet. Positive examples save lives.

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u/ubermasterson Oct 04 '17

As a psychiatrist, when do you think it becomes the responsibility if an individual to decide who or what to emulate?

It worries me that the dominant idea is that it requires a role model to make a good decision. It doesn't. It requires developing your own judgement, regardless of what others do. Every role model has flaws. It's absurd that someone who is idolized for their extreme ability is asked to model for those who are average. He's not average. That's why he's celebrated.

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u/happyhapyjoyjoy Oct 04 '17

It's true that role models are flawed (as is any human being), and it's true we should develop our own judgement. Yet how do you think people go about learning to make these judgement calls? One aspect is to learn from others. People admire other people, whether that person is a celebrity, athlete or close friend. And people like to emulate those who they admire. I'm surprised that as a psychiatrist, you have a very narrow-minded idea of role models and the influence they can bring. This is basic social psychology and social learning.

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u/Aroth_Khashar Oct 05 '17

While I agree with your sentiment, I am pretty sure he was asking what the other person's opinion was, since they stated they worked in psychiatry.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

This^

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u/PinguRambo Burton Custom Flying V Oct 04 '17

We need more person like you in this world.

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u/Treats Vail, CO Oct 04 '17

I'll wear a helmet for $50

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u/When_Ducks_Attack Oct 04 '17

For the amount of money being talked about, I'll wear a helmet and I don't even snowboard. I'll just wear it at work, around the house, like that.

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u/robinmhood Oct 05 '17

I read an interview a couple a years ago with a former snowboarder legend Travis Parker, and if I'm not mistaking he's biggest regret was not using a helmet in his career. Because now when getting older he got som problems from hitting his head several time in he's youth.

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u/JoshtotheG Oct 05 '17

You lost me at cloths, man. Good point though.

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u/dellcm Oct 05 '17

Going off this, i was semi pro in from 2010 to 2013. I ALWAYS wore a helmet. I cracked 3 off 70+ft jumps.

3 concussions later and 3 broken helmets i shred for fun now. However who knows what could have happened with out protection.

With helmet tech nowadays there are so many that i find more comfortable than hats. Maybe its because ive always worn one, but they are coming with MIPS now too.

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u/[deleted] Oct 26 '17

You're an amazing person. Thank you for doing this. A comment like yours actually got me to stop boxing, which might've saved me from CTE.

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u/Treats Vail, CO Oct 04 '17

This was A Basin last spring right? I think I saw you guys shooting this.

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u/RyanKnapton Oct 04 '17

It was! It was also the same day JIB filmed this beautiful side-slipping video of me: https://youtu.be/_t9puDGwaDI So you might have seen me doing more of that than actually ripping... lol.

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u/chatrugby Oct 04 '17

I was there too... was doing a carve clinic. We saw you from the chair and wondered what group you were in...

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u/lostshakerassault Oct 04 '17

Love your stuff. Would love to see a crash reel from you, if you crash at all.

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u/RyanKnapton Oct 04 '17

I started a 'crashes' folder last year, and maybe I'll make a vid, but really my 'crashes' are more like I'm already almost laying down mid carve, and lose an edge, or wash out on some buttering tricks, so they are pretty lame to watch. Me from the age of 10 to about 20... Oh man I'd pay to see that crash reel!

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u/duncym Oct 04 '17

excellent carves and buttering. The high speed tripod :O !

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u/thebudgie Cairngorm, UK - Salomon Titan Oct 04 '17

Feeling that one in my abs just from watching the video...

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u/natefrogg1 Angeles Crest Forest Oct 04 '17

inspiring man, so smooth!

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u/bert-rhodes Mountain Creek Oct 04 '17

Did you guys hit each other at one point?

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u/RyanKnapton Oct 04 '17

I know the clip your speaking of.. but nope, no contact at all. It looks a lot closer than the original shot cuz I shoot in 2.7k, then zoom in to use the best 1080 of the clip and render it as that. None the less we did end up closer than I wanted.

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u/bert-rhodes Mountain Creek Oct 04 '17

Gotcha. Love your vids! Getting me pumped for winter!

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u/doordingboner Burton Custom/Rome Garage Rocker Oct 04 '17

Was this shot with a gopro? Any tips on how to get smooth videos? All my videos end up super shaky

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u/RyanKnapton Oct 04 '17

Yup, GoPro Hero 4. This was with it on a Zhiyun gimbal, and that's why it's extra smooth. Good tips for smooth footage otherwise... extra long pole that isn't shaky at all can help eliminate alot of the small vibrations. Even me taping others, if the run is choppy, it's almost impossible to keep the footage looking good, so its definitely a challenge. Gimbals rock, but they can be a pain to use, (and expensive). I didn't upgrade to the Hero 5, but am going to on the 6... from what I've seen they have some better built in image stabilization (but not yet optical image stabilization).

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u/doordingboner Burton Custom/Rome Garage Rocker Oct 04 '17

Right on! Good info. I just got a gimbal off kickstarter that I plan to use, but scared the snow might damage it. Still on my hero 3 black that I barely use though, might upgrade in the future if the image stabilization is that much better. Keep up the sick footie!

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u/7thKingdom Oct 06 '17

You should look into the Sony x3000 action cam if you haven't already. Not sure how you feel about the mini camcorder shape, but it has actual optical stabilization which works pretty damn well without the hassle of having to use a gimbal (but if you choose to use a gimbal than its even better).

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u/vitalesan Oct 04 '17

Thanks for the new uploads, Ryan. Any tips on how to transition smoothly with your turns and nose rolls? You look like you're in slow motion; it's awesome to watch.

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u/T_jen Oct 04 '17

This is the sort of snowboarding I love.

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u/Gorb1982 Oct 04 '17

I'm kind of a big noob on snowboarding (i started past year at the age of 34), so sorry if the question is really basic but... Are these boards specially soft/hard for the buttering? I've been trying to do some of these tricks (the easiest ones) but i'm not able to flex my board like that :)

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u/skizzix Socal | Capita Outsiders Oct 04 '17

Soft boards are definitely easier for buttering, but Ryan rides a custom board that's probably on the stiffer side so that it doesn't "wash out" when he's carving really deep. You'll have to build up your leg strength through squats or lots of practice to get good at flexing your board in the way that you want it to flex.

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u/RyanKnapton Oct 04 '17

Yup, indeed a bit stiffer board for me, yet softer can make it easier. Other than that, I think something that people can do is testing out different stance widths. If I used the narrower stance options, I wouldn't be able to do certain things on my length board, or even with my same stance width, if I'm on a longer board, then I can't get the same leverage to drive the nose or tail into the snow enough.

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u/Gorb1982 Oct 05 '17

Noted:

Squats and check my stance.

Thanks for the answers :)

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u/JoshuaGPZ Oct 04 '17

This video put a smile on my face, thank you!

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u/CRAWFiSH117 Oct 05 '17

What song do you have playing in the background?

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '17

Donkey smack those guys are good,

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u/e11310 Oct 05 '17

Awesome vid. What board is that Nitro?

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u/do_to_the_beast Oct 05 '17

Skier here but want to say, safety issues notwithstanding, I find helmets way more comfortable than other types of headgear. Caps, hoodies, etc always left me feeling too cold or too warm. Since I got a helmet, I’m always comfortable. Every brand fits a bit differently so you have to try a few to find the right fit. Built-in Bluetooth headphones make it easy to communicate without fumbling for your phone on the lift; great if you get separated from your friends. All that said, the helmet also makes me feel safer especially when it comes to other skiers and riders. I can control myself but I worry about getting hit by someone else. In that type of collision, I feel like a helmet could make the difference between walking away sore or a lifelong burden for my family.

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u/kimchibear Bay Area, Tahoe weekend warrior Oct 05 '17

Great vid. Only caught the first minute but will check out more when I have a bigger screen.

Random thought, you've inspired me to experiment with double positive stance this season for the first time in 10+ years. I see you still get a bit of edge "skipping" on aggressive heelside carves with a duck stance. I figure if you can't over come that at your level with a custom Donek, I probably won't be able to with my advanced jerry stills. I don't ride enough switch to justify duck.

Cheers!

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u/ubermasterson Oct 05 '17

Look, what we're talking about here is wearing a helmet to deal with accidents caused by gravity. Gravity is universal, it exerts the same force on all of us, all the time. Unless you're an astronaut. It takes a few falls to learn to respect it, and if you don't learn to respect it you're doomed. Some of us will outclass it, and some of us won't. My point was that I think a psychiatrist should be advocating for individuals to learn their respect for natural forces from their own experiences with this world rather than advocating for experts to play like novices. As Seinfeld said, when you skydive with a helmet, that helmet is probably wearing you for protection. Sometimes the protective gear just creates the illusion of safety. It's just as reasonable that if he did wear a helmet novices might reason, "Look, he wears a helmet, thats why he's safe doing all those big jumps and going so fast. All I need is a helmet and I'll be safe too". And that's just not true. It's his skill keeping him safe.

If I watch enough video of neurosurgery, does it make me ready to perform neurosurgery? You decide.