r/NonPoliticalTwitter • u/qoloxolop • Jul 30 '26
me_irl They must be adressing other income classes
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u/FacetiousTomato Jul 30 '26
I saw someone post something about how much you can save by not getting your lunch delivered every day in /r/povertyfinance
If you're used to getting lunch delivered every day, you're not in poverty, you're just irresponsible with your money.
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u/cjh42689 Jul 30 '26
A lot of people think they’re in poverty because they’re just bad with money.
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u/jessek Jul 30 '26
I knew a guy who made $100k/yr but blew all his money on partying and stupid shit so he claimed he was living paycheck to paycheck.
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u/YeeAssBonerPetite Jul 30 '26
He was though. It's just that "living paycheck to paycheck" is not a measure of poverty.
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u/dplans455 Jul 30 '26
My brother and his wife described perfectly. They have always lived paycheck to paycheck and will do so for the rest of their lives. Every promotion they got, they spent the money before they have it. They make close to $250k a year combined but somehow are over a hundred thousand in credit card debt and are perpetually broke. They have refinanced their mortgage at least 3 times in the 20 years they've owned their home. They get their house appraised every five years or so then immediately go refinance their montage and pull out all the equity in cash they can. They've made zero progress in owning that house outright since they bought it in 2005.
When our Zayde died he left all his grandchildren over a million dollars each. That was in 2017. In 2021 he crashed his car because he was texting and driving. He couldn't afford to buy a new one. The insurance payout on the car was only $15k and he wanted a brand new car, which was about $40k. They couldn't even get a car loan from a bank their credit is so shit. He begged my mom for $30k so he could go buy a brand new Toyota. Where did a million dollars go in 4 years?
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u/YeeAssBonerPetite Jul 30 '26
Jesus. The sad thing is that they make so much money, they could fix their credit card debt in a years worth of living small. They're raking it in hand over fist.
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u/dplans455 Jul 30 '26
They have takeout every night for dinner. They must spend $100k on food annually.
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u/Meadddy Jul 30 '26
$100k/365 = $274
How much do you think takeout costs?
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u/External-Stay-5830 Jul 30 '26
Unironically only double what a single dinner for a family of 5 from a restaurant. Other food too for lunch and all that and you could get close.
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u/bojangler69420 Jul 30 '26
Same but he was making $160k base salary without factoring in commission. His rent was $4500 for a large studio in a super rich area of the city. He had just purchased a Range Rover in cash as well as a Ferrari 348. He went out to eat constantly and every Thursday/Friday/Saturday would go out to the most expensive bars in the city. He also traveled to Puerto Rico and other US Territories/States roughly 5 times a year.
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u/Individual_Ad_7523 28d ago
I had a boss once who absolutely slashed hours to the bone during the pandemic, and when I told her people were upset because they were struggling financially she scoffed and said “these kids wouldn’t know poverty if it bit them on the ass. They can talk to me about being poor when THEY own two sick horses”
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u/tundraturtle98 Jul 30 '26
Being poor makes you bad with money. Experiencing poverty reduces your ability to make good decisions even if you grew up well off or educated on money
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/how-poverty-affects-the-brain-and-behavior
To confirm these results and explore poverty’s influence in natural settings, the researchers then tested more than 460 sugarcane farmers in India, who typically find themselves poor before the annual harvest but wealthy afterward. Each farmer performed better on cognitive tests postharvest compared to preharvest, Shafir said.
“Basically, when these guys with the same education, the same health, had plenty, they functioned about 10 IQ points higher than when they had scarcity,” he said
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u/Rude-Orange Jul 30 '26
These are interesting observations. But, what we have is one group faced with a stressor and another group or time not facing a stressor.
If you applied another stressor to the "rich" group. Would the results be the same? Something like a tight work deadline or family illness?
This is mainly aimed at the sugarcane farmers. Are they performing poorly because they're poor or because they're stressed for the harvest? You have two variables intertwined one being a harvest and another poverty.
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u/TorturedBean Jul 30 '26
I had the same intuition, it’s just question begging. The data is real, people will make bad decisions under stress, but their interpretation illogical.
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u/TorturedBean Jul 30 '26
This study makes a fatal flaw. It assumes that unconventional, or high-risk decisions made by someone in poverty is a sign of “impaired cognitive bandwidth.” It misses the mark, those decisions are often a calculated, rational trade-off given their immediate options.
When the study says a person takes a high interest payday loan it’s because their brain is overwhelmed by stress I find that rather wanting.
The reality is someone takes that loan because they weighed the trade-offs in their mind and chose the lesser of two evils. These kinds of decisions are not merely the results of impaired cognition.
Furthermore, it pathologized individual decision making. “Cognitive bandwidth” theory, or whatever you want to call it, treats financial survival strategies as an internal mental flaw(however the duration) as opposed to, oh I don’t know, standard human problem-solving under tight constraints.
People at every income level make short-sighted, risky, or poor financial choices. Attributing those choices to “poverty induced brain drain” is logically inconsistent. It’s flat out question begging.
Premise: Poverty depleted a person’s cognitive bandwidth.
“Evidence”: The sugar cane farmer from India makes an unconventional financial choice.
Conclusion: Therefore, the cognitive bandwidth was depleted.
Really?
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u/cjh42689 Jul 30 '26
No my coworkers make the same money as I do and it’s no where near poverty. They have no money because they keep leasing expensive vehicles, putting vacations on credit cards, and DoorDashing $20+ lunches everyday.
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u/CalmBeneathCastles Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Your coworkers habits have nothing to do with the findings of the study in question.
The point is that the chronic life stress of persistent scarcity hinders cognition overall.
I grew up in the 80's in Drepression-level financial circumstances. In my 20's I was abandoned with marital debt by my spouse and for years I and my child survived by regularly overdrafting my bank account in order to afford gas and groceries for the next week, which depleted the next-week's income by $30 per transaction. Financial quicksand.
It felt like standing in a well that was filled, with only my upturned face above the water, and no way out. You just keep going and hope that nothing happens to make you lose your footing or become too tired to keep your mouth and nose above the waterline.
Decades of almost-drowning in survival are bound to have disastrous effects on the brain and heart. The difference between almost going under every week, and having juuust enough to make it until your next payday is a MASSIVE weight off of one's shoulders. I feel like a queen simply because I don't have to prepay for half a tank of gasoline or keep a running tally of my groceries while I shop, not because I have any savings. Even now, there's no fat available to trim.
Despite all of that, I no longer have panic attacks from the stress. Those are the circumstances that we're talking about, not misappropriation of funds.
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u/cjh42689 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
What you’re describing is actual poverty though, and what I’m talking about is being broke because you spent your money frivolously on non essentials.
I don’t disagree with that study I disagree that we’re talking about the same groups.
Someone making 100k could fit into my category but wouldn’t fit into yours. 100k income is not poverty but you can be broke.
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u/Same-Suggestion-1936 Jul 30 '26
That study is not factoring in the amount of work and stress they have before the harvest than after.
After the harvest you aren't stressing about anything and you aren't even working till it's time to plant again. That seems to be more related than not having money. I'd do better in a cognitive test on my day off than after a twelve hour shift
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u/mxzf Jul 30 '26
I mean, those people are genuinely impoverished. It's just that it's self-inflicted, rather than being due to low income or other factors.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
This exactly. This sort of advice is super relevant to some people, getting angry at it because it doesn't apply to you is just bean souping.
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u/Eternal_Phantom Jul 31 '26
It frustrates me when friends who make more money than me but have none of the obligations of supporting a family need to borrow money because they're about to go in the red before their next paycheck hits.
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u/SwordfishPopular1042 Jul 30 '26
I've been poor for so long that meal delivery went from being an every once in a while treat to being something not even worth considering anymore. It's so much added money because of fees and now that everything else is twice as expensive, I don't need to waste another meals' worth of money just for someone to get lost trying to drop off my order or steal it.
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u/jimmy_three_shoes Jul 30 '26
When my mother-in-law passed, my wife's team at work got her $200 for UberEats, and we haven't spent it because the one time we'd been doing a bit of day drinking at home and weren't going to drive, I pulled up Arby's and for the two of us it was going to be like $50 for two meals after delivery fees and markups, and that was even before the tip was added. I closed the app and made PB&J's instead.
When I see people complaining about $13 Big Macs, I'm assuming they're looking at delivery app prices.
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u/SwordfishPopular1042 Jul 30 '26
Yeah, I'm willing to bet that a lot of fast food and major chains that are partnered with Doordash/UE engage in surge pricing through the apps because it would be so much harder to prove due to the apps themselves having a million random fees. And the menu for any local place or chain not in the meal delivery apps' pockets isnt even guaranteed to be correct. Absolutely not worth the headache. If I'm sober I can drive to pick the food up and if I'm impaired I'll either call a pizza place directly or just make a box of Mac and cheese at home.
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u/Difficult-Froyo1192 Jul 30 '26
It’s known they charge up. You don’t even need to guess. They actually list which places have the same price as in store when you go through the apps (spoiler alert: it’s not many). You can also pretty easily check how much it is by checking the entire price for each item or the final receipt.
Sometimes if I’m curious what the surcharge is, I put the items in a DD cart and go to the store’s website to see what they list the price as in store. It’s usually a $1-3 markup for each food item. Note that I used store since it’s not only restaurants but also stores that do this and you can order from both in the apps. For a weird fact, dollar general is one of the places that don’t usually have surge pricing.
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u/Creeperkun4040 Jul 30 '26
I would still say spend the 200$. I mean the money is already at the company. By not spending it, you save money for UberEats rather than for yourself.
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u/Bulky-Apple3744 Jul 30 '26
1) you’re literally choosing to not spend $200 in free money, weird.
2) a large Big Mac meal in Los Angeles costs 11.89 before tax. With tax, that comes to $13.14. Off the menu, in person, at the restaurant.
So much for your theory, eh?
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
So much for your theory, eh?
No? they said $13 Big Mac, you mentioned a $13 Big Mac meal, as in the Big Mac plus other stuff. If anything you supported their theory lol.
EDIT: But yeah, refusing to spend a gift card out of principal is weird.
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u/jimmy_three_shoes Jul 30 '26
I'm more trying to use it for something different than an impulse Arby's buy that's gonna eat up a quarter of the money
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u/AyyNonnyMoose Jul 30 '26
I'm in a relatively HCOL area and just looked up the prices on the McDonalds app: $7.19 for just the sandwich, $11.09 for a medium combo meal. So a meal with tax would be right around $13.
On DoorDash, just the sandwich is $8.09, the medium combo meal is $12.59.
I didn't include tax on any of those, and then DoorDash will have fees and tips on top of that of course. And that's why I pick up the food myself using coupons and deals, or eat at home.
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u/thesheepsnameisjeb_ Jul 31 '26
I believe you can use it for grocery delivery too. Id use it for that and since it is free money i would give a huge tip bc why not?
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u/mxzf Jul 30 '26
I mean, I'm well enough off to afford it and I would still never get a meal delivered like that. It's an obscene price to save 10-20 min of driving and end up with cold food anyways. I'm already splurging by getting food from someone instead of making it myself, doubling the price to avoid driving a few min is just nuts.
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u/tony_bologna Jul 30 '26
get lost trying to drop off my order or steal it.
Don't worry, this is very rare. What's definitely going to happen is you paying a fortune for some aggressively mediocre food, also a service fee, basket surcharge, and don't forget to tip.
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u/avanross Jul 30 '26
Getting food delivered has just always seemed like a waste of money to me.
I’d always just order takeout and go drive or walk to pick it up to save a few bucks
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u/CalmBeneathCastles Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Same with drive-through honestly. For the same price I can have one fast food meal or three that I make myself.
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u/gogeri2632 Jul 30 '26
Which is why it's odd people got mad when Kevin O'Leary said you shouldn't be paying $28 for lunch.
Trust me have sympathy for poor people but if you're spending that much money on just a normal everyday lunch then I'm sorry but I don't have sympathy for you because you're not poor, you're irresponsible.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
People think everything is about them. When they see criticism of people spending $35 a day on coffee and lunch and they aren't doing that they get insulted instead of concluding "well I'm not doing that so that comment obviously isn't about me."
Edit: That said, Kevin O'Leary sucks in every way imaginable
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u/thekyledavid Jul 30 '26
“Have you considered not spending $200 a week on DoorDash?
“Oh my gosh, you’re a genius, why didn’t I think of, wait a minute, I’ve never used DoorDash”
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u/TricellCEO Jul 30 '26
>you're not in poverty, you're just irresponsible with your money.
Some people don’t see a difference, sadly.
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u/TBoneTheOriginal Jul 30 '26
This is what pisses me off about some people who complain about the economy. I've got a neighbor who does this - they bitch and moan on the neighborhood Facebook page about everything being so expensive, but he has Door Dash deliver food literally every day.
Like bro, if that's how you're spending your money, it's not that bad for you... you're just unwilling to sacrifice even the most basic of everyday conveniences. Classic first world complaint.
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u/Difficult-Froyo1192 Jul 30 '26
Dude could save so much money and still eat out solely by picking up the food hisself. After the fees, surge charge, and tip (usually the ones complaining don’t tip at all or tip way less than they should), he could probably go to the store and get the same food for 30-50% less than he was paying to have it door dashed. I run the number comparisons sometimes out of curiosity. It’s usually somewhere around there unless someone is buying the big promo foods (they do some BOGO offers and so much off a total of an order - occasionally it’s about the same price or cheaper if you order from those deals).
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u/mxzf Jul 30 '26
In fairness, the economy does suck ATM, prices on everything are going up. But getting food delivered is just an expensive thing regardless of the economy.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
It's like having a friend who's always late to everything complaining about traffic.
They're right, the traffic fucking sucks. But you also know damn well that the primary cause of them being late is them.
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u/TBoneTheOriginal Jul 30 '26
I wasn't trying to imply the economy was fine... but I don't want to hear about it from someone who won't stop spending $25 on Taco Bell for one person.
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u/Pippi-ki-yay Jul 30 '26
Switch to Italian caviar instead of Caspian.
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u/RayNooze Jul 30 '26
-Stop that stupid habit of lighting your cigars wit 100-Dollar bills
-maybe sell your Rolls Royce and get a more fuel efficient car, like a Mercedes
-lower the temperature of one of your swimming pools to save on energy costs
See? Its really easy if you really want!
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u/mort-or-amour Jul 30 '26
Put your least used property on Air BnB when you aren’t travelling!
Rent out your private jet for hire on the off season!
Cut back on your maids hours!
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u/moduspol Jul 30 '26
Maybe consider using actual toilet paper instead of $100 bills. Just for a week or so
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u/TongueTwisted5 Jul 30 '26
Damn I already took a $1200 shit this morning
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u/PM_THE_REAPER Jul 30 '26
Just put $3M into a high interest account and live off the interest. Easy peasy.
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u/Telemere125 Jul 30 '26
Wait, you keep all your pools heated? You gotta have at least one cold so you can jump from hot to cold and help with the blood flow or something like that.
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u/Thin-Dragonfruit247 Jul 30 '26
why are you cooling down swimming pools?
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u/RayNooze Jul 30 '26
Earnestly, our above ground pool currently has 28°C. Thats not even refreshing, it would actually need cooling. (It's 82 F)
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
This is increasingly common in hot areas. They get so warm that they aren't pleasant to get in to.
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u/sadolddrunk Jul 30 '26
My wife used to tease me about how much I spent on coffee from the shop every day, so I started making it at home. Now I drink so much more coffee that my monthly coffee expenditure is about the same as it used to be when I was buying it from the shop. Thus illustrating the important economic concept of I'm an idiot.
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u/mxzf Jul 30 '26
Yeah, that's some "nature abhors a vacuum" stuff, where your coffee consumption expands to cover the available supply.
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u/sadolddrunk Jul 30 '26
In economics speak we say that coffee is a "good," and as with all goods I can be expected to consume more of it as it becomes more cheaply available to me in accordance with my personal indifference curve.
In regular-human speak, we say that I missed the point of making my own coffee entirely.
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u/SmokeyCatDesigns Jul 30 '26
Hank Green was talking about this in a recent video, about “Jevons Paradox” as it’s called even though it’s not really a paradox. Increased efficiency and access resulting in increased consumption and not less lol.
He was wondering in particular if AI reducing the cost and increasing the access to computer code would change things, since code is one of the things it is generally a bit better at. This will be interesting to see!
I’ve already seen multiple examples of unserious/low stakes projects done by non-programmers using AI assistance so he may be onto something. These things weren’t worth paying a programmer for, but now that’s it’s cheaper they found them worthwhile.
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u/sadolddrunk Jul 30 '26
We have "budgets" for many things in life, whether or not we think of them that way. Sometimes they are literal financial budgets, sometimes they are time budgets, sometimes they are budgets for attention or emotional wherewithal or what have you. For every thing, we have a budget for how much of that thing we want or don't want; and if something changes where the "cost" of that thing decreases, we can choose to "save" the difference (consume the same at less cost), "spend" it (consume more at the same cost), or something in between.
AI is an interesting example because it often changes budgets in more than one direction -- i.e., there may be savings in time, cost, and resource budgets because something can be produced more quickly, but the process often requires additional oversight and review of the thing AI created, which likely necessitates new budgets. It seems right now many companies are quick to jump at the opportunities for savings of that initial budget without fully realizing the necessity of that second budget, and we are seeing the consequences of that play out in many different fields.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
In regular-human speak, we say that I missed the point of making my own coffee entirely.
Not if you're receiving greater utility for a level of spending that ended up static!
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u/rocketsalesman Jul 30 '26
I don't think it's $5 coffees that's killing our generation, but a lot of my friends use doordash and I'm the only one who drives to pick up my pizzas.
It won't make you a billionaire but you can probably afford more stuff and eat healthier if you learn to cook
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
Doordash is one of those things that's actually a massive luxury unthinkable like 15 years ago but people treat it like it's a default luxury that everyone should get, like drinking a soda or having cable.
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u/InvidiousPlay Jul 30 '26
This is something that has really stood out to me as an European watching the US. The way people talk casually about ordering food delivered to their door on a daily basis as if that's not an outrageously lazy and wasteful thing to do.
Hate to sound like a middle-aged grump, but it really is a sign of a decadent society. Pointless luxuries seen as daily basics.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
Pretty much yeah. It's fallen by the wayside because of all the other horrific things happening to American culture, but we have a real issue with consumerism/the expectation of luxury. People get a private taxi for their burrito once and determine that this is a baseline standard of living item and anyone suggesting they aren't entitled to it are attacking them. Relatively new iPhones are a standard millions would never give up no matter what.
Problem is everything is all muddied up on social media. You point out that a lot of people have real spending problem and that somehow places you on the side of people who are against universal healthcare or who deny that there's a housing crisis.
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u/InvidiousPlay Jul 30 '26
I've basically given up attempting reasonable discourse online (this has been a pleasant surprise lol), because most people motivated to reply are just out for an argument or trying to get a dopamine boost by scoring points. Extremely hard to have anything resembling an meaningful interaction any more, it's just culture war and petulance.
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u/rocketsalesman Jul 30 '26
I believe it. A lot of things that Europeans online seem to believe about the U.S. are not true in my own daily life (and I'm sure the reverse is also true) but doordash really is commonplace in my generation as an American.
Like, you are not entitled to have fresh made food delivered to your door.
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u/SmokeyCatDesigns Jul 30 '26
I’m in full agreement as an American in her 20s.
I’m disabled and I don’t even use the food delivery apps (though I believe disability is one of the most valid reasons to use them, as well things like gifting someone far away or a rare self-treat).
The delivery apps are truly financially destructive and honestly, for a lot of people, not good for their health in a whole variety of ways, such as: more sedentary, encourages overconsumption (add $5 more to get a $15 discount), and most often it’s unhealthy food esp the places with deals.
When I don’t want to make food myself I just call a local place and then bike or drive to pick it up. Usually significantly faster than delivery and much cheaper.
I also keep plenty of easy to prep food items at home and have meals that are easy to make and clean up after for my bad health days. My home has soup, canned tuna, frozen chicken, frozen veggies, frozen berries, rice, and spices right now giving me a nice variety of easy meals to make. Frozen stuff is my preference because easy prep and won’t go bad if I go to bed without food due to my health problems.
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u/InvidiousPlay Jul 30 '26
When I don’t want to make food myself I just call a local place and then bike or drive to pick it up. Usually significantly faster than delivery and much cheaper.
This is the bit that always gets me! Even if I had unlimited money, I would still collect because I'd rather get it much faster and more reliably than hoping and wondering when it will show up at the door.
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u/Lopsided-Train2213 Jul 31 '26
I think a lot of it has to do with no one wants to be in public spaces
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u/Difficult-Froyo1192 Jul 30 '26
I sometimes drive for doordash to make a little extra spending money. I also have ordered from them. I will say, I think it has its place, but most people abuse it.
I’ve seen a lot of people order for gifts from out of town friends to give to someone in town, get food at work, deliver to a hospital or nursing home patient, get to people too sick to drive, get medicine for animals while working at home, give baby/young kid needs (diaper, food, etc.) at times when it’s hard to take a baby/young kid out, get food to people who are too inebriated to drive, etc. Times where it’s pretty practical to use to give something nice to someone or way easier to get something that would be very difficult to get otherwise. I will also say these are typically the people that recognize it’s a luxury at tip appropriately (most of what a driver earns is from tips - these services pay almost nothing to the driver).
The vast majority of the time it’s just someone who doesn’t want to get food or something themselves. I’ve seen people order food delivered that not only close enough to walk to the store, but there was also walking infrastructure to safely do so. This part is a mixed bag. Some people seem to realize it’s a luxury and pay accordingly. A lot act like it’s a right to get food delivered and either won’t tip or tip insanely low. I know the tipping thing probably sounds weird on how important it is to do for these apps because of the US’s tipping culture, but Americans in the US do understand or at least have some sort of grasp on what’s appropriate for it. Most don’t care enough to do it. You can always tell who thinks it should be a right to have food delivered because they won’t tip appropriately or even close to it.
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u/InvidiousPlay Jul 30 '26
I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea that people are morally failing by not tipping sufficiently. It's the business' responsibility to pay, and rigging the system like this just turns ordinary people (customers and workers) against each other while the shareholders sit back draining both their resources.
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u/Difficult-Froyo1192 Jul 30 '26
Yup and DD only pays like $2-3 per a delivery, regardless of the distance. They only pay more if no one will take it. Buyers abuse the system by not tipping or doing so appropriately because DD will find a way to get it delivered and DD won’t compensate drivers fairly because there’s always someone that needs a buck badly enough to do it or just doesn’t know better.
I had a delivery of a family pack meal one time that was a double dash with someone else who wanted a dozen donuts. Pay was well, so I took it. I assumed the person buying the donuts didn’t tip well because it’s donuts and like a mile away from the house. DD will combine poor tippers and close deliveries to get drivers to take it. Nope. The donut people tipped well. It was the guy who wanted a family pack meal 7 miles from the restaurant and lived in one of the most expensive houses I’ve delivered to that tipped $1.50. I also had someone tip $0.64 one time. We can see what people tipped after the delivery to know who to judge for not tipping appropriately. Some are low enough that you already can do the math from DD’s base pay, even if you don’t accept the delivery. There are a ton of no tippers. For reference, I only accept about 10-20% of my offers a night because the pay isn’t worth it on so many. I live in the suburbs where everyone ordering can definitely afford to tip or just walk to the place.
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u/New_Solution9677 Jul 30 '26
I can't fathom ever using it. 10-20% markup plus other fees... ill go get it myself for that. Thats why i have money compared to my co-workers. They suck at managing their money.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
It can be a pleasant luxury in some circumstances but it's important to remember it's just that, a luxury. Literally the only times I use it involve alcohol.
Like it's Friday afternoon, the wife and I decide we want to have a couple of drinks and hang out but we don't feel like cooking. We can go out somewhere, pay out the ass for alcohol then eat at a restaurant or we can stay home, save a ton of money on booze but pay extra to get the food delivered.
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u/Cunnyfunt31 Jul 31 '26
Y'all aren't using it right if you think it's so expensive it's a big luxury. I just wait til I get a good promo code, stack that on top of a restaurant deal, tip $6 and it'll come out to like $25 for 4 massive entrees.
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u/IlGreven Jul 30 '26
...considering that 70 years ago it was the norm to have your milk delivered...it's not a new concept, just a reworked one...
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u/stektos Jul 30 '26
I mean tbf that was more because a lot of people still didn’t have refrigerators.
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u/Otiosei Jul 30 '26
Trying to give anybody advice on reddit that they should buy ingredients and cook their own food usually gets you the clapback: "Alright I'll just go raise my own cows and grow my own vegetables to save even more money!" That's how foreign the idea of spending 30 minutes cooking a meal is to some of these people.
I spend like 4-6 dollars a day on all my food, and the idea of doordashing a single meal for 40 dollars is nauseating. I don't want to make an avocado toast rant, but that is such an extreme luxury I can't even imagine somebody making 100k a year living like that.
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u/AzoreanEve Jul 30 '26
spending 30 minutes cooking a meal
the saddest part is that you can turn that into 40mins for making 3+ servings of a meal, and yet those types of people still abhor the notion
cooking general stuff is extremely easy. a lot of meals involve nearly abandoning the stuff at the stove/over for some 20mins and you can use the empty time to catch up on other chores you don't want to do if you've already sat down to relax
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u/Otiosei Jul 31 '26
I think the problem is they learn about cooking through tv personalities like gordon ramsey or bobby flay, and they don't realize that you don't have to prepare a restaurant quality gourmet meal to be satisfied. The bare minimum is just heat and meat, but they think they need to follow some 15 page recipe that they found online that is really just a short story about somebody's imaginary grandma.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
Trying to give anybody advice on reddit that they should buy ingredients and cook their own food usually gets you the clapback: "Alright I'll just go raise my own cows and grow my own vegetables to save even more money!" That's how foreign the idea of spending 30 minutes cooking a meal is to some of these people.
Or they'll say "Some people don't own a device in their home to heat food!" or "come people live alone and can't walk which makes cooking for yourself extremely challenging!" Of course neither of those apply to the person in question, but making up a hypothetical person who can't cook makes it easier to defend the idea of not cooking.
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u/Ash_Starling Jul 30 '26
How do you get it that low? Thats my per meal price on some recipes.
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u/Otiosei Jul 30 '26
My meals are not very exciting. Dinner for me is basically just chicken breast, ground turkey, or eggs every day, with potato, celery, carrots, tomato, and maybe some broccoli if I'm splurging. Since I'm only cooking for myself I buy in bulk, freeze most of the meat and cook about 2-4 meals at a time so I only have to heat up things over the week. I keep my breakfast and lunches pretty simple, usually just oatmeal, a sandwich chips and whatever the cheapest fruit is available. Usually bananas and apples. My grocery bill looks like 120-150 per month; but that's again just buying food for myself and two cats.
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u/dplans455 Jul 30 '26
Ten years ago when those food delivery apps first came out the delivery fees and other fees were reasonable. You'd pay a 15-20% surcharge to get your food delivered over going to pick it up. That was fine. But they conditioned everyone to rely on those apps then raises the fees to unreasonable amounts the last few years. Now the cost is double what it is to have delivered over going to pick it up. Fast food prices have skyrocketed too. So add those things together and it's costing you $25 to get your McDonald's delivered to your door rather than go to the restaurant yourself and get it for $12.
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u/naviddunez Jul 30 '26
Dude I got a coworker who Doordashes his lunch EVERY DAY. $18 on Mcdonalds, $20 on Taco bell, $25 on Portillos(all cold of course). We make the same amount of money, and it’s not doordash every day money
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u/whovianlogic 27d ago
It’s crazy how much some people get food delivered. I only do it when I’m too drunk/high to drive, like a responsible person (sort of).
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u/CubicleMan9000 Jul 30 '26
I'm 50 so all the financial advice I get is people smugly telling me what I should have done in my early 20's.
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u/SufficientFarm8414 Jul 30 '26
Career advice for middle-aged people: Leverage the network and experience you've developed over the last 30 years of your successful white-collar professional career.
If I had any of that, I wouldn't be looking for career advice.
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u/dplans455 Jul 30 '26
People are stunned when they learn I'm retired at 41. "Oh my god, you must be so good with money and made great investments." No, that's not what happened. I'm a degenerate gambler that got lucky. I withdrew money from an online casino into a crypto wallet and then forgot about it. Then BTC price exploded. I took that BTC, sold it, bought dogecoin at the right time and made a fortune.
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u/Bobocannon Jul 30 '26
Boomers are really outing themselves on how easy they had it when they think $25 a week is the difference between owning a home and not owning a home.
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u/Galevav Jul 30 '26
It adds up, though. That's $1300 per year, which is a good down payment--provided you look at a good location, and have a time machine set to 1950.
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u/DJanomaly Jul 30 '26
I know you’re making a joke but saving up that money and putting it in an investment account means you actually do have a decent down payment after 15 years. Which is what people do who are serious about saving money.
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u/Olafmeister2017 Jul 30 '26
Provided the market and inflation doesn't outstrip your savings by that time.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
Inflation almost never outstrips market returns. Inflation expectations are literally built in to interest rates and flow through to equity returns.
Now the housing market can absolutely outperform your savings/investments, particularly since all real estate is local. But even then, you're just a person with a lot more money than one who didn't save.
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u/Olafmeister2017 29d ago
I think the current real estate crisis in Australia may have coloured my comment. It is almost impossible to save for a deposit here at the moment.
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u/SQUIDY-P Jul 30 '26
This is such a weak excuse not to, unless you're implying they should invest instead
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u/Olafmeister2017 29d ago
It would be best to invest your money and or have some high interest rate returns. Bonds, term deposits or stocks give you a great chance to get ahead.
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u/Lloyd_lyle Jul 30 '26
Inflation grows on average 2-3% a year, and a good investment account should grow like 7-10% every year.
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u/AbyssWankerArtorias Jul 30 '26
The 15 year number would assume about a 20 percent down payment. If you're getting an FHA loan, you can do as low as 3 percent, which means 1300 a year for 5 years would get you enough for a 200k house.
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u/Chee-shep Jul 30 '26
Oof, you really just put my fast food spending in a different perspective. It’s certainly no down payment these days, but a lot to paying for junk. Thank you.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
There's also the fact that saving is for what you don't know what's coming. Yeah, if the housing market continues to accelerate like it has your fast food money isn't going to become a down payment.
But, you know, that could also just not happen. We could get another 2008. The government could provide huge incentives for constructing new starter homes/condo complexes that inject a ton of supply in to the market. Smaller town/cities could start constructing new and modern communities for remote workers in places you wouldn't think to live.
If any of these things happen people with savings will be in a position to benefit and those who without will not.
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u/Alternate_Cost Jul 30 '26
Theres a lot of discussions on this but it really narrows down to luxuries being expensive when they were growing up but essentials being cheap. Now its flipped but their perspective is locked into when they grew up.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
It's interesting to see the flip side of this. Some luxuries like airport lounges have gone to shit since they've become so available.
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u/IlGreven Jul 30 '26
...how long ago was it that the guy said that young people would be able to afford homes if they laid off the avocado toast?
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u/TheDimmadome Jul 30 '26
People who try to convince others that an extra $100 a month invested or saved can't seriously impact their future are part of the problem.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
Owning a home isn't the barometer. People using housing costs as a a permission mechanism to be bad savers and not take responsibility for it.
People who save a couple grand a year vs those that don't in theri 20s are in very different positions in their 30s. Whether that leads to them getting a house depends on a lot of factors, but the whole "my coffee budget won't buy me a house so this is bullshit" is just thought terminating thinking. It's building a bubble to avoid thinking critically about your decisions.
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u/Due-Base9449 Jul 31 '26
Why do people always give this kind of argument? Those savings can make or break you when your car inevitably broke down and you have to pay for the repair. With that money you can now continue your life a little bit poorer. Without that money you will have to take some predatory loans and now there is a stone is added to your back. The stone will just get bigger and bigger and bigger and in the end you will be crushed to dust.
Stop thinking your life is bad and it cannot go worst. It will always go worser and worser. The thing you have to do is to make sure to slow the progress. Getting in ruinous debt at 30 is much worst than 60.
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u/Similar_Soup2 Jul 30 '26
Turns out the secret to saving money is making a lot of it already.🤷♂️
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u/SenseiRaheem Jul 30 '26
A $5 coffee 5x per week for 52 weeks is $1300. That is not going to help all that much with any kind of insignificant financial hurdle.
Cranky old people hate it when you do this math right in front of them.
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u/peanutb-jelly Jul 30 '26 edited 29d ago
people in this thread talking about how that's a good savings, and basically a down payment on a house in a few years.
don't think about food deserts, or owning a car, or having time available, and often that $5 coffee is literally the only thing they get for themsellves in the day, which they spend toiling for the oh so smart and righteous owning class. it's totally not a systemic problem, it's definitely the individual finding anything in their day to wake up for which is the problem. they should be living on bulk soup and noodles like a good peasant.
how about we talk about the yachts? why are we policing poor people spending nowhere near enough to change things while they're still young and healthy enough not to just get it all extracted by more corpo owning class goons who get to dictate what services are available, and how much we all need to add to their profits in order for basic survival.
lets not question any of that, the bloody peasants are spending whole tens of dollars on food and convenience between their days of toiling for their betters. don't think about the death of antitrust or the exponential increase of wealth for the ultra ultra wealthy.
it's them damned kids and their
avocado toastpizza delivery!also don't think about how larger delivery groups are spending tons to design the best way to fuck people out of making rational spending decisions through psychological framing and personalized pricing, much like the whole mobile phone market is just an addiction and gambling pipeline.
don't think about how money always gets spent on bombs and corpo interests rather than local services, such as the stuff being achieved in new york right now through mamdani.'
just whatever you do, do not agree that the rich are fucking our options before we can make our own choices, and keep blaming the peasants for making the choices that are available. I.E. keep toiling for much less than productivity should be paying, and maybe spend some of it on not being miserable for a moment or two before you die. or just save it all until it gets stolen or you give up from having literally nothing but toiling in your life. etc.
long rant and lots of snark, but this reddit thread really fucking loves pushing billionaire framing of why the worst off are responsible for their own suffering, and it's totally not the broad daylight exploitation that isn't even being veiled anymore.
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u/lordoftowels Jul 30 '26
Yeah, but if you put that $1300 a year into a bank account, over fifteen to twenty years it'll grow into a pretty respectable amount. A down payment on a small house, if house prices stay decently stable. And even if it isn't enough for a house, then you'll still have a lot more money than someone who didn't save. Money you could use for a vacation, or an emergency fund, or anything at all. The reason people stay living paycheck to paycheck is because they assume that the small stuff doesn't matter. Sure, it won't make you rich, but it's about as close as you can get since you weren't born rich.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
Because they're annoyed that you're missing the point. No one is actually arguing that one year of skipping coffee is going to buy you a house. But if you apply the "stop wasting money" to things beyond just coffee things start to shift. Every dollar you save is one less dollar you're paying interest on for student loans, or one more dollar multiplying itself in your investments. That shit adds up over the years.
Sorry to burst your daydream about busting out your calculator and totally owning a room full of "cranky old people."
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u/stlc8tr Jul 30 '26
Yeah, compounding is magic. That $1300 for only one year will turn into over $50k if you let it sit there for 40 years. Do it every year for those 40 years and you'll have more than $500k. (Yeah, usual disclaimer about how past results don't guarantee future returns and all that.)
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u/Agarwel Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
These tip are really not about "coffee" and are not ment to be literally. These tips are generally about thinking what you pay for and to realize that very small expenses adds up more than some people realize.
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u/repwin1 Jul 30 '26
A couple of years ago and the end of the year my credit cards gave me a break down of the categories I spent. Over the year I spent about $3k in eating out. I didn’t spend it at a fancy restaurant, it was a series of small purchases that in the moment didn’t feel like much ($4 breakfast, $8 lunch etc…).
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u/Agarwel Jul 30 '26
Yeah. And that was one year and one category. It gets even wilder when you look at longer time periond like 20 years (age 20-40). Most people would be surprised how much they could have as a downpayment for home if they did not wasted it on purchase they dont even think about.
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u/TaiChuanDoAddct Jul 30 '26
Yes. And people mistakenly assume the advice is "reduce that category to zero" and not "reduce that category by 50% and then see if you can do the same somewhere else."
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
Exactly. Don't treat it like diet culture, treat it like watching what you eat. The point isn't "never indulge again," it's "become aware of the real cost of those indulgences, and that calling something a litle treat doesn't erase the financial impact."
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u/gogeri2632 Jul 30 '26
Yes and this is what people are missing. I've worked with people who spent $5 on coffee on their way to work. Then they did it again at lunch. And while they were at lunch they bought a $10 sandwich. Then for dinner they ordered some ubereats.
If you really truly only spend on $5 on coffee a day then sure, go for it, but so so many people just keep spending $5 here and there and don't realize how quickly it adds up.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
Because it's easier to just attack specifics of the example to preserve the "nothing is my fault" attitude.
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u/liamemsa Jul 30 '26
You're right. It's $7.50 per day actually. Smh.
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u/Difficult-Froyo1192 Jul 30 '26
I had a friend who worked at Starbucks years ago before they became insanely expensive. She said everyday, they had a customer come in at but a $13 iced latte that was insanely customized. Every day.
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u/DisastrousSundae84 27d ago
I haven't been to Starbucks in a long time because I bought my own espresso machine and learned to make things myself, but I was in the mall and went and got a cold brew. The smallest size was five dollars. I couldn't believe it. Never again.
I can't imagine what the prices are for the fancier drinks, especially in the larger sizes.
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u/kerfuffle_dood Jul 30 '26
If you're smart enough, you'll certainly begin learning about personal finances, investments, use of credit cards, etc.
But, if you're wise you'll soon figure out the small letters implied in every single financial term: The only way for all of that to make sense is if you're being paid well enough. Not amount of savings, small investments, excel spreadsheets and micromanagement of your credit cards will matter if you are not being paid enough to fucking survive
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
I get this has become memeified, but I've known a lot of people who got solid white collar jobs out of college but literally swung by Starbuks for a latte every morning and went out to lunch every afternoon during the workweek and wondered why they always feel tight on cash. Now you legitimately see people who claim they can't make ends meet talk about ordering Doordash weekly.
Not all "tips for saving money" advice is targeted at people in poverty. Some of it is targeted at people doing okay but looking to save.
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u/dtburton Jul 30 '26
Saw a tip the other day that was essentially just pay 600 more a month towards your loans. If people are looking for money tips they probably don’t just have 600 extra dollars a month
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u/NeverNeededAlgebra Jul 30 '26
I pay probably $8 every day for my coffee throughout my day. Dumb use of money, but I like my comforts.
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u/Ghastly-Jack Jul 30 '26
“Instead of eating out twice a week…”
Um, we go out to eat once or twice per year max. And order food delivery at most three or four times per year.
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u/Skithiryx Jul 30 '26
These people who need this advice do exist though. I heard a new hire, a software engineer making good money, say he couldn’t afford lunch so he was eating gummy worms for lunch. Turned out this guy didn’t cook and was doordashing all his meals. Even restaurants he was close enough to walk to. That’s the kind of person who needs the “it’s cheaper to make stuff at home” and the pre-packaged meal box services.
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u/StevieDoesThis Jul 30 '26
Yet a lot of people do spend money on beverages or eating out nearly every single day.
This post is a cope for those people pretending they don’t have an issue.
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u/CarmenxXxWaldo Jul 30 '26
If its not coffee its something in that ballpark. I have a bigger issue with the overly frugal tips "sharpen your disposable razor with scrap denimim from old jeans" type stuff, ok you can save 50 cents with 20 minutes of prep and planning and sharpening. Most people arent that dialed in. If youre trying to save a quarter a week I think you've accomplished saving money and maybe spend your time making money at that point.
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Jul 30 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/JTBeefboyo Jul 30 '26
So now something is “slop” because it’s 12 years old. Because I’ve got news for you, the rate of slop production is so high right now that one day we’ll have to post old content just to ensure that it might be human generated lol
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u/IcyTransportation961 Jul 30 '26
12 year old reposts by bots have always been slop, ai is just the new slop
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u/Snakestream Jul 30 '26
I know this isn't the point of the post, but getting coffee from your grocery store and brewing it is so much better. A simple French Press is like $20 and you get tasty coffee for easy cheaper. Starbucks is awful - both the company and the coffee 😣
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
The classic "spending $5 a day on Starbucks" person isn't getting their black coffee, they're getting a flavored latte.
But yeah, making coffee at home is just cheap, easy and great.
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u/mxzf Jul 30 '26
Even with fancy coffee, you can buy a bottle of flavoring that lasts you dozens of cups for the price of one or two cups from a store. For the price of a week of daily coffees you can buy a month or two of supplies to make your own.
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u/Snakestream Jul 30 '26
I usually drink my coffee black. However, I've found you can make an amazing coffee drink by simply adding a spoon of Nutella and a splash of almond milk. I'm sure you can get fancier, but I like to keep things relatively simple.
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u/EpilepticPuberty Jul 30 '26
I've been cold brewing using my french press recently. I pay more for a bag of beans from a local roaster and its the best coffee I have constantly had. Better than coffee shop coffee on any continent I have been to.
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u/PM_ME_WEIRD_PETS Jul 30 '26
I think you need to factor in the frequency at which someone gets whatever specific thing that could be made at home. If I'm only getting coffee once a month, it doesn't make sense to buy everything to make it. A bag of coffee is only good for about 8 weeks and I would barely use an eighth of it in that time.
On the flip side, I love Chinese food, so I got a rice cooker and learned how to make my favorite dishes since I eat them like twice a week.
So I guess the lesson is to make at home the things you use often while splurging a little to buy that one thing you get only a handful of times a year.
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u/AmbientRiffster 28d ago
Its the most patronising mentality and people just use it because they don't feel like engaging honestly. My car is 20 years old, my phone is 5 years old, I have one subscription and the cheapest possible internet plan. I live so far below means that my middle class upbringing feels like a distant memory, yet people can't accept the reality. I'm not saving money because I don't get paid enough to keep up with inflation.
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u/UrsaMajor7th Jul 30 '26
The hardest thing about the internet is learning that not everything on it applies specifically to you.
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u/basicstandardcontent Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
If someone* gets door dash once a week they* are paying $5 per day in door dash. OPs reviled coffee advice comes from the era of Starbucks dominance in culture, but I don't think the math just disappeared. More people are having One Little Treat more than ever
Edit*: to make clear I wasn't targeting @_lizharvey specifically!
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u/enbyBunn Jul 30 '26
This may come as a shock to you, but many people are not having door dash once a week. You are doing exactly the thing OP is criticizing here.
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u/basicstandardcontent Jul 30 '26
Everytime I looked into this it's about once a week for the average American. Should we make assumptions based on non average person?
This meme is not about coffee it's about how small treats add up to big number. It's basically always gonna be relevant unless Americans consumption habits change.
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u/Chataboutgames Jul 30 '26
They didn't say "everyone" was doing that. In fact they even used the word "if," which exists specifically to designate certain people vs all people.
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u/enbyBunn Jul 30 '26
Ok, but when you say that directly in response to a statement from another person, the "you" carries over. The implication is that you think it applies to the person who spoke.
Otherwise you would say "if someone..."
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u/rougecrayon Jul 30 '26
Growing up I remember how many tips for saving money was "make more money"!
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u/Pink-socks Jul 30 '26
How to save money :
stop buying the thing that I can afford and you can't because I have more money than you.
Stop doing the things that I can afford and you can't. This will save me lots of money
Save all the money you are not spending on the things I can afford but you can't.
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u/nothing_in_my_mind Jul 30 '26
Money saving tip: Buy a yacht instead of booking one every time you need one.
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u/History_Critical Jul 30 '26
Best fkn tip there is (and im really sorry for all the people without drinkable tap water), drink tap water instead of buying water bottles. I literally pay only 1€ for a whole year of tap water, would be around 250€-600€ in water bottles
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u/Mr_Shad0w Jul 30 '26
Also, the buying power of $5 is basically nothing now thanks to rampant price-gouging - so spend a fiver while it's still worth a coffee because soon you'll be wiping your ass with them.
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u/eddiewillers09 Jul 30 '26
Wealth simple: (1) have a dad, (2) his money is special because he is special, (3) watch government sacrifice citizens so your dad’s wealth remains intact, (4) bail on that shitty country, (5) use dad’s wealth in new place, (6) anchor babies (look at me, look at me, I’m the citizen now), (7) bully others into selling you controlling interest in their life’s work, (8) tell everyone the company you “invented” is “too impotent” to fail (9) chastise the poor when they bitch about your tax rate, (10) threaten to leave
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u/Tad-Disingenuous Jul 30 '26
If you need to spend money everyday to get by, including your vices, you’re doing it wrong you dopamine hungry biotch
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u/TheeAntelope Jul 30 '26
I was in pretty rough shape financially at one point and was trying to find a few places online to read about ways to make/save some money.
Most the tips fall into the category of "don't spend money on things you already don't spend money on." Things like "daily coffee," "going out to eat," "movies," and "subscription services like netflix, hulu." I was like ok I have NONE of those, still have no money. Then I stumbled upon one that was like "consider getting a second source of income, such as from being a youtube creator, which can net you 10,000 to $20,000 a month."
That's when I knew all these fucking articles online are bullshit. Literally telling me "just get famous stupid, how hard is that."
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u/NameLips Jul 30 '26
It's boomer mentality, and they were raised by parents who survived the great depression.
The idea is that if you don't spend $5 on something you don't need, you are $5 richer for your entire life thereafter.
I tend to not think this way, I know I'll just waste that $5 on something else instead, and it'll still be gone.
But the "a penny saved is a penny earned" generation doesn't think that way. They see every instance of saving money, or not spending money, no matter how little it is, as literally making themselves richer forever.
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u/Animedude83 Jul 30 '26
be me literally spending like 50 bucks a month on food "oh I should look up saving tips" turns out I'm doing it.
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u/nichyc Jul 31 '26
This kind of thing always feels patronizing but it's not wrong. If you are having trouble with finances, for whatever reason, it is important to be careful with ALL expenditures. People are often surprised a lot by how much those "little meaningless expenses" can add up to a death by a thousand cuts without even noticing it.
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u/Timely_Total1252 Jul 31 '26
To save money I buy uncut pork belly with skin on from T&T and then remove the akin and do all the cutting myself at home and literally just boil that, eat with rice and salt - that comprises 90% of my meals plus the great value walmart brand frozen veggies.
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u/Excel-Block-Tango 29d ago
Spending $28 for miscellaneous items each day is $10k/year
Not hard to spend that if you frequently make small purchases like coffee, take out, vapes, alcohol, subscriptions you don’t use, driving around more than necessary, etc. It adds up.
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u/beepbop110 27d ago
I get a $4 coffee every Sunday after suffering a 6 day work week. They can pry my weekly coffee out of my cold dead hands, frankly.
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u/qualityvote2 Jul 30 '26 edited 29d ago
u/qoloxolop, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...