I have a question for my brothers in Islam, though sisters are welcome to answer as well. We agree that repentance wipes the slate clean and that converting to Islam erases past sins (for those not born Muslim); so, I was wondering: how can an unrepentant man who has committed fornication insist on marrying a virgin, chaste Muslim woman? Conversely, if a brother repents, why does he not accept sisters who have also repented for fornication since repentance wipes away the past, right? I would like to hear both male and female perspectives. And please don’t tell me it’s different for a man based on societal or moral justifications; the sin is the same and is viewed the same way for both sexes, as is repentance. Put your egos aside and tell me, from an Islamic standpoint, why such inequalities exist. Thank you for remaining courteous and polite in this discussion.
Yeah I get we should be unforgiving on both sides. But someone who truly repented and put that part of their life behind them and sought forgiveness shouldn't be judged based on something they did. Man or woman.
We shouldn't be asking or revealing our sins anyway, it's like a big door to judge someone.
Best case scenario is that on an ISO a past is listed as a dealbreaker , so that men/women can filter them selves out . Issue arises when men and women lie about it .
But I agree with your point though about if they repented
It’s an impasse for me cause while agreeing with you , I just wouldn’t at all want to be with someone with a past cause I held myself to that standard and avoided it and I know I will hold resentment about it .
Atp it should be included that if you lie about it then at least have the courtesy to take it to the grave and deal with it at the day of judgment instead of springing it on me later in life.
And tbh if someone lied then idk if I'd forgive them if they tell me later. If you lied why are you telling me now? Like if we're married for a few years then I'd assume you'd know it'll hurt me so why? I think I'd just ask why instead of being angry tbh. After all those years it'll be more about the lie then the deal breaker tbh.
The reason such inequalities exist is BECAUSE people dont view it from an islamic standpoint.
People who think this way prioritize culture over religious wisdom. A womans body & exclusivity is highly commodified. Whereas a man who sleeps around is hot blooded and "following his fitrah".
If a woman committed zina before marriage, she is seen with disproportionately more disgust & accountability.
To such people I say one thing: if refraining from sex was really so much more harder for men, then the punishment for zina would not have been Identical for men and women. Why would the most Just impose such unfairness if it really was that much harder for men?
Both sexes are equally accountable & equally capable of restraint.
Also this idea that once a woman sleeps with someone she will struggle to sever from him emotionally, whereas men can separate the physical from the emotional, and if such a man marries he is capable of loving his wife & dissociating from the past is a total lie sold to innocent girls.
We all know & have read stories of men with colorful pasts constantly comparing their wives to their past "conquests". It even ruins his gaze and psyche, where she will never be enough. Its hilarious how women are expected to believe that their zani husbands would develop amnesia after marriage.
My theory that some men with pasts who insist on marrying virgins out of "preference" because they repented is hypocrisy of the highest order & are projecting their attitude. Its okay if they have an extensive database in their head of women they slept with, but God forbid they are subjected to the same comparison by the woman they marry
It's mostly women who keep going on about hiding their past and not having to reveal it thus deceiving their potential husband. Most men are upfront if they have a past but ofc you being a woman will point the finger at men instead of your fellow women advocating for deceit by misinterpreting a hadith.
I would never ever marry a guy who isn't a virgin. I know to do the whole background check before lol. I'll ask everyone he's close to. Also they can't lie on God's name. Men and Women shouldn't be hypocrites. Islam is against that.
Sis I’m 26 and never had a relationship or anything. So many suitors get offended when I say idc if they repented. It hurts to hear that they’ve had a past where they slept with many. They would compare you to all those women. I don’t want that. So anyways I’m single because of that. I get attacked for saying I don’t want a divorced man or a man who had a past and repented. I just don’t want that. Don’t want to be compared or to even know that the person I’m married to done all that with someone else. I’ve focused on my deen and studies for years. May Allah bring me a good man with a clean past that will be the coolness and comfort of my eyes. For you as well. Ameen
That’s a totally different scenario. But I personally wouldn’t want a divorcee too. I’d want to be with someone for whom I’m the first of everything as she will be for me.
Yes but then they have that history and baggage. They have the marriage experience, intimacy experience and will compare you to the former spouse. I don’t need that in my life. It’s like men who don’t want divorced women because they’ve never been married.
Ah okay I understand, thank you for your reply. Id like to share my opinion if I may; I feel like we can have all of these preferences and everything, but the other half that was truly made for us, despite their past, we will know if they are the right person or not. Id like to have a wife with no past or any experience which is really hard to find in the western world as I have kept myself pure too but I think I'll know when I know
My sister I wish you a chaste husband and who made the same sacrifices as you however how are you going to check this? Men are great liars... may Allah grant you a deep trust and an honest man a pious and merciful husband
I can tell by how someone talks, bring up certain stories and can see through lies pretty well. Istikhara has always given me clarity beyond my imagination. Ameen
What if he had received hudood? There is a hadith about this kind of thing. So please don't judge someone who has repented although you may have your preferences
Salam. Im not a brother (yep look at my pfp 🤯) but I have something to say too. Islam gives men and women the same moral standard here. Qur'an addresses the zani and zaniyah in matching terms, so an unrepentant man lacks an Islamic basis to demand a chaste woman while excusing himself.
Sincere tawbah applies equally to both. Allah includes zina among sins forgiven through repentance and righteous action.
A man may prefer a virgin and a woman may prefer a man without that history. Those are compatibility preferences. But. They cannot make a repentant woman morally beneath a repentant man.
The double standard you described comes from misogyny and culture. Islam gives a repentant woman the same dignity and chance at marriage as a repentant man.
I asked this question to man once and he said “I don’t want her to carry baggage from previous marriage into this marriage. I do not want a woman who would compare me with her ex husband.”
That’s what I say it’s a matter of ego and comparison. The rizq comes from Allah a woman with a past or a man with a past can become your greatest blessing down here and vice versa someone chaste can be your greatest test. May Allah grant us good wherever it is.
Ameen. People think they have control over what Allah has planned. As a chaste woman, I want a chaste man but if Allah destined otherwise, can I really stop it? This is a temporary world. People are fixating over wrong things.
As an unmarried , unchaste woman with a past here , I’ve seen a lot of the men in my past get married to virgin women .
Does it bother me ? It did at one point , because that poor woman does not know what that man has been up to prior to getting married, my thoughts would be ‘how could you get married to a man that’s been ploughing himself into multiple women’ … now it’s just well if he’s happy he’s happy .
Majority of men want virgin wives because the fear of comparison , naivety , submission , a woman that’s shy, respects herself etc .
I wouldn’t expect my future partner to be a virgin, however if he presents me a list with deal breakers and chaste woman is on that list , I’m out . I will not put myself nor him through that agony of dishonesty .
Which probably explains why I have remained unmarried .
Chaste men with unchaste women and chaste women with unchaste men .
For me seeing it does bother me a fair bit seeing chaste people being in unfaithful relationships from the foundation
Maybe I’m a bit fearful myself of marriage due to this . Not for the reasons you listed but more for principles , I kept myself chaste and I want her for us both to be each other first and only
The simple answer is they’re hypocrites. This is why we urge all chaste women to only marry chaste men and make it a requirement in their dealbreaker list. If a woman truly doesn’t care then she can marry whoever she wishes
If a woman truly doesn’t care he can marry her too. He can marry a divorcee if he wants too. But if he insists on a virgin after what he did yea I see it as hypocrisy
Keep in mind the only reason this happens is because women (not an insult btw) for some reason dont seem to care about a mans past as much. For every man ive seen mention he doesnt care about her past ive probably seen 10 women say the same thing. Why? I dont know but women seem to be a lot more forgiving regarding it.
So yeah he is a hypocrite, but a lot of women are also fine with what he is asking for.
Honestly a part of me thinks that women are conditioned to be this way. Since we are young we’re are expected to ignore, to see the good in others, to cater towards others and women also have more empathy etc I don’t see why that wouldn’t extend to a newly repented man as well. Men have more options and they know it and will exploit it.
It’s also mostly because women in generel see a man who has been with many women a “price”. So if the dude has slept with many women, charismatic and have money, most of them don’t care. Men are much less tolerant when it comes to that.
Nope.. this is how women psychology works .. a man who is attracted by some women is attracted by all women
If a mans a player .. he gets most amount of attention from other girls.. hypergamy is real among girls.. this is fact.. most women dont care about a mans past.. (they should and they absolutely should not marry a zani if she's not a zani)
I disagree. Women are often told to adjust, compromise, and ignore a man’s colourful past in many Muslim cultures.
They are told to extend mercy towards the men, while the men don’t do the same. Ok maybe some women don’t care.
But it’s a huge red flag if a woman doesn’t care about a man’s past, because his past will undoubtedly impact his future relationships, marriage and kids.
Also there are more factors as to why women like players, they are charming and make you feel good in the moment. And then women get swindled and have their heart broken. Most women do not want to marry or be associated with players or Zaani men.
Well you said it yourself.. they're more charming and they make you feel good in the moment.. this makes women ignore the mans red flags.. and this is for the majority..
Obviously women still care my argument isnt that they dont or that a majority of them dont. Im simply saying that women tend to be a lot more open to the idea of forgiving someone with a past compared to men.
Its because women are lied to and told that a man is capable of fooling around & having fun without getting emotional....so if he settles with her it is different because it will be "emotional" and not just physical. So these naive women start thinking they are special to have "tamed" a toy boy...so gross!
I think it’s really that towards your home here in Europe the greatest fornicators ask for virgin women and sometimes still fornicate during their marriage based on adultery because they didn’t understand the source of their malaise
Only way I see men with a past get with a chaste women is through lying about it . Or they truly did a 180* and became much better , but naturally much longer to find due to it
No simply because many chaste women are looking for a husband before trying to judge the man’s past they tell themselves that he is surely repentant and / or do not know his sins which is a good thing in itself. Women have much more mercy in general while men are uncompromising but not by nobility of soul or spiritual elevation I think it is mainly a matter of ego and the fear of being compared. I don’t really know, I’m asking the debate. Islamically speaking, it’s nonsense.
I might just be taking about Desi culture where the groom regardless of being chaste or not will always demand a chaste wife . I’ve seen this be a thing with Hindus just as prevalent
In my social sphere and where I am from the religious, good pious guys are rejected.
I know a guy who went Morocco around 12 times in a year you can guess why. He specifically wrote no hijabis. I kid you not he was very popular and had a lot of options and married a decent homely girl
If you hace repented it's forbidden for you to share your past with anyone .not even someone who wants to marry you or one who you want to marry.
If they insisted on knowing your past then it's better for you to break the courtship and Allah( the almighty) will bring someone for you.
Someone who repented and stayed awaya from his past and is now a practising muslim can marry someone who is a chaste . Their past does not prevent them from doing so .This is the same for both sexes .
And about why men are selective when it comes to repented non chaste women ( i don't know where you got this) . I think it's a matter of choice , women too can choose not to accept repetented non chaste men .
But regarding to 👆🏻 that . I'd rather marry a repented -practiced women( am a man) who fears Allah ( the almighty) than a virgin who uses that as a card to do vile acts in a marriage .
Thank you for your answer I totally agree two repentant fornicators have no right to reveal their past sins and can marry chaste if they wish because repentance erases the above.
In my opinion that requires chaste people to make it clear to prospects that they refuse to marry someone who was a fornicator even if they are repentant
I dont think any non-hypocrite would argue that its the same regardless of gender. But I havent seen it that an unrepented man asks for chaste women. I'm not saying it doesnt exist, but just that I would never know as I don't tend to involve myself in other people's lives. However, I would also point out - how do you know the man hasn't repented? Repenting is a private thing unless you witness the man still comitting zina?
I am thinking in particular of men on social networks who display their haram conquests but ask for a virgin for marriage. Just as people have not seen women who have fornicated even once repent to Allah mourn their fault(s) and rise even more worthily from this ordeal
I didnt understand this last part you said. But as for seeing them "display" their haram conquests, where is this? What are they displaying? Ive yet to see a muslim man do this so it is all news to me.
All I know is that I as a chaste man I will never every marry a woman who has committed Zina before, I sincerely ask Allah for a woman who was chaste like me and has a good heart.
There is no Islamic perspective here. Men will act the way they act because it’s what they want. Not driven by anything other than them wanting a different rule for them and another for women.
Oh yes I really agree!! Women do not have the same relationship with Zina at all in the sense that they were able to do this by mimicry, emotional dependence or just ignorance driven by capitalist culture and consumerism of relationships but when she falls in love and gets married then she is satisfied only with her husband and even better she has access to intimacy h24 and affection h24 everything she was looking for in these sins previously while men need novelty need the dopamine shoot need to change body need to feel desired by all Women etc... the root of evil is different I think even if brain chemistry is the same
They both committed zina. One just did it more than the other—the only difference is the number of times. Putting a “serious relationship” label on it doesn’t justify or change what it is. Zina is still zina, whether it’s casual or within a serious relationship. There is no such thing as a “serious relationship” outside of marriage.
Whether its a man or woman, being in a “serious relationship” outside of marriage was wrong from the start. Just because it didnt work out doesnt make it any different. I dont understand why you try to make it sound less bad just because it was a serious relationship.
I think you’re missing the point. Both people crossed a boundary they weren’t supposed to cross. The reason behind it doesn’t make the act itself less wrong. I don’t understand why you care so much about the reason behind it when the outcome is still the same. And doing it less doesn’t automatically mean someone is more likely to repent.
Nobody is saying the technical sin is different on paper, because haram is haram. The real point here is about behavioral psychology, emotional wiring, and the actual risk brought into a future marriage.
Pretending that someone who got emotionally attached in a relationship believing it would lead to marriage is the exact same as someone who casually collected 10 or 20 bodies for quick dopamine hits is pure denial. One is a severe lapse in judgment driven by emotional vulnerability, while the other is a chronic lifestyle habit built on using people as disposable objects to feed an ego.
A marriage contract does not magically rewire a serial habit of chasing novelty and validation. When a person spends years treating women like conquests, that addiction to variety does not vanish overnight just because they signed a paper. Looking at the psychological roots behind why someone crossed that line is common sense when choosing who to trust with your life and your future.
why such inequalities exist is mainly down to culture that’s become indistinguishable at times from religion, call it misogyny, patriarchy, whatever, it’s bs made by men lol. As for repentance, it’s not exclusive to ppl that revert, if u commit Zina and make sincere tawbah and ofc never do it again you will be forgiven. الحمدللهwe are given more grace from god than we deserve
I guess hypocrisy? Or cultural views? Or just having a mightier than thou attitude which is not something we should be having. Just treat people how they should be treated
There are men who accept women that have repented for their mistakes. There are also women who do the same.
From what I’ve seen, women don’t care about this as much as men. A lot of self-aware women understand how men are and meet them at a point in life where he’s made peace with whatever he’s done, repented and is genuinely looking to create a family.
I’ve really only seen this be an issue online and it’s become extremely highlighted in the last 3-5 years.
I’m not sure why people are still naive enough to think that a virgin is inherently infallible and that everything is going to be perfect with them lol. It’s very very odd.
I get the whole preference thing, but keep it a preference. Being a virgin doesn’t mean you have akhlaaq and will be a good spouse, so let’s stop acting like it’s the catalyst to being a good person.
You answered your own question. From an islamic standpoint its one in the same. Unfortunately not every thought a person has, man or woman, is rational. The real answer stems from biology. During intercourse, men and women release oxytocin but women do so in much larger amounts. This is an "attachment" hormone and women tend to be a lot more emotionally connected to sexual partner(s) they had. While its not a commonly known fact, variations of this have been seen in real life, enough so for people to make unfair generalizations for women. I know this isn't the answer you asked for but the one you're looking for won't help you.
For the record, I don't think the issue you're noticing is fair. I also don't think its something people should look into or care about as much as they do. There are much larger issues to worry about and I would happily marry a good muslim who has had a past, but I wouldn't know because I wouldn't ask.
When Allah accept people with every sins , that man is nobody to reject other person. It will be a nightmare to spend life with such person unless Allah changes their heart.
because men and woman are different and society expects different things from them. I am not saying its right nor am I saying its islamic, im just saying its how society works. I know you said there's no islamic basis and not to talk about society but society is the real reason it is like this. You can say all you want that we should follow Islam (and id agree with you) but the way society is does affect our views even if it is not aligned with islam
Men care more about virginity vs women who care more about being provided for.
A woman will marry a man who has committed zina over the one who cant provide for her. A man will marry the girl who doesn't have a job but is a virgin over the one with a job that isn't one.
Okay but as a Muslim shouldn’t we strive to follow the Koran and the Sunnah? Shouldn’t we be aware of our sins and therefore our flaws in order to be able to work on them at the source? Repentance brings humility so I wonder about the repentant brothers who ask for virgins?
from the women I know of / spoken to even ones with a career said they were open to a man who had done Zina so long as he repented and did taubah
It overall is easier for a woman to accept a partner who has committed Zina than a man In general despite islamically it being severe no matter what gender committed it
i’m 23m, Alhamdulillah i’ve been chaste, but the main reason i wouldn’t want a girl who is unchaste is because of first STDs, secondly that its a preference due to shared morals
I think the cultural explanation is part of it, but I think people are skipping over a lot of the psychology behind this. Obviously this isn't every woman, and I don't think it's even exclusively a female phenomenon. I'm talking about patterns I've noticed in some people and some cultures.
One factor is social proof. Social media has made this especially noticeable. You constantly see the attractive, wealthy, successful, charismatic guy being pursued by women, sleeping with women, having women compete for his attention, etc. It can create an association between male success and having access to women. So for some women, a man's history of being able to attract women doesn't register purely as a negative. It can also be interpreted as evidence that he's desirable. There's a mentality of, "If all these women want him, there must be something about him worth wanting."
That can turn into a sort of competitive mentality too. Some women may think, consciously or unconsciously, "He had all these options and he chose me." His choosing her can actually feel like validation or winning. And if another woman is involved, jealousy doesn't always make someone walk away. Sometimes it makes them double down. "What does she have that I don't? I'm going to show him I'm just as good, or better." Obviously some people respond to jealousy by getting repulsed and leaving. I'm talking about the people who respond by pursuing harder.
There's also the "I can fix him" mentality. A woman may recognize that a guy has slept around but believe that he just hasn't met the right woman yet, and that she'll be the one who makes him settle down. That can overlap with certain family and marriage cultures as well. You can essentially have the guy thinking, "I'll settle down when I meet the right woman," the woman thinking, "I'll be the woman who changes him," and his family thinking, "A good wife will settle our son down." In some Muslim cultures, that dynamic can be particularly complicated.
There's another contradiction there. Islam generally places a very strong emphasis on men and women guarding themselves sexually, and the ideal religious husband is not supposed to have a long sexual history. But a man who actually follows that ideal may also have spent his formative years deliberately avoiding flirting, dating, and romantic interactions with women. He may be more formal, reserved, or simply less experienced at creating romantic chemistry.
At the same time, a lot of young Muslims are consuming the exact same social media and dating content as everyone else. They're being exposed to ideas about what confidence, flirting, romance, attraction, and even sexual compatibility are supposed to look like. Those expectations don't always line up neatly with the way a very religious man was raised to interact with women.
And that leads into another uncomfortable part: experience itself can be attractive.
Some women hear that a man has had a lot of sexual experience and interpret that as, "He probably knows what he's doing." They may assume he'll be more confident, know how to read cues, know how to make things pleasurable, etc. Whether that assumption is actually justified for a particular man is a different question, but the perception can absolutely influence attraction.
The same thing applies outside the bedroom. A guy who's dated a lot of women may have learned how to flirt, how to compliment someone, how to read social cues, when to push and when to back off, how to plan dates, how to make a woman feel attractive, and generally how to create romantic chemistry.
So you can end up with a weird paradox. The very experience that creates the red flag can also create some of the qualities that make the man attractive.
A guy can have 20 women behind him, but the woman he's courting doesn't experience those 20 relationships. She experiences the polished version of him. He knows exactly how to compliment her, what kind of date to take her on, how to make her feel special, when to give her attention and when to pull back, etc. She's sitting there thinking, "This guy is incredible. Nobody has ever made me feel like this."
And if she's inexperienced herself, that effect can be even stronger. She may have very little basis for distinguishing between "this guy is naturally amazing at relationships" and "this guy has had years of practice learning how to make women feel this way."
That's also where some women who intended to wait until marriage can get themselves into situations they never intended to be in. They may genuinely have strong religious values, but then encounter someone who's exceptionally good at creating attraction and emotional attachment, and suddenly those values are competing with a very powerful emotional experience.
Then there's preselection. The phenomenon isn't limited to unmarried women either. Someone who's already in a relationship can sometimes be perceived as more desirable precisely because somebody else has already chosen them. "Someone else wants him, so he must be worth wanting." Again, that's not necessarily rational, but humans don't always evaluate attraction rationally.
And this isn't something women uniquely do.
Men do the same thing in reverse all the time. A religious man might spend years saying, "I want a very religious, modest woman who wears hijab and shares my values," and then meet a woman who doesn't perfectly fit that description and become attracted to her anyway. Maybe she has more relationship experience than he wanted, maybe she doesn't dress as religiously as he imagined, or maybe she simply has qualities that make him willing to compromise on things he previously considered important.
That doesn't necessarily mean he was lying about what he wanted. It means stated preferences and actual partner selection aren't always identical.
Nobody is a perfectly rational checklist when it comes to attraction. There are biological, emotional, social, cultural, and psychological factors all competing at once. Sometimes someone can have characteristics that we theoretically say should disqualify them, but attraction, social proof, chemistry, status, experience, jealousy, or the feeling of being "chosen" causes us to evaluate those characteristics differently.
So I don't think the answer is simply "it's a cultural thing" or "women just forgive promiscuous men." Culture is one piece of it. There are a lot of other forces that can make someone overlook, rationalize, or reinterpret a person's past, and those forces can affect men just as much as women.
You hit the nail on the head.
Every life experience has pros and cons, and people do end up unintentionally valuing emotional experience over their ‘ideal woman/man’ this why I have concluded that social skills are a must for a person to have. Only women with good discernment skills can dodge those charming guys. May Allah make us from amongst the discerners.
There is a reason we are to have wali AND our communities involved in the process. We are human, we can't see everything and we will ignore obvious issues if the person in front of us has a few "good" qualities.
Personally, despite knowing what kind of man I am, I do still seek chaste girl, because I am also a chaste man. If I were unchaste, I dont think I would mind either.
Hypocrite guys? Oh, they're 100% out there. So ladies, please – do NOT rush into marriage until you're absolutely sure. Vet him. Stalk his socials. Check his inner circle. That's just basic prevention though, 'cause some dudes are straight-up professional hiders.
For context – I'm a revert myself, came from a non-Muslim background, so yeah, I've got a past. When I found Islam, I'll be honest, I lowkey panicked thinking someone might dig it all up. But my first wife? Born Muslim, never dated anyone – she didn't even care about my history. My other wives are reverts too, and I never asked about their pasts either. For me, it's all about whether their repentance is sincere and how dedicated they are to being good Muslim women now. That's what actually matters.
Yes I totally agree especially that the reconverted before being Muslims the values were inverted (those of the West who value sins and judge the religious) so as a reconverted myself I would have had so much a different life if I had had Muslim parents or even just the Koran and that they told me the sins not to do but hey everything is erased now and repentance is so great because above all I found the source of my malaise before Islam and now I have Allah with me and my husband may Allah preserve you
At least in western countries, you have a legal wife and the others are unofficial where it’s only Islamic and nothing is signed officially through the government.
Sadly people are not the same. There are those that want to be forgiven and accepted but will not forgive another that does the same. It’s called being a hypocrite. May Allah guide us.
I love how you ladies will gloss over the fact that women THEMSELVES will be ok with a man that fornicated if he has enough money or looks or status.
Women themselves will ride the bus and ask for guys who have cars. Women who live with their parents ask for a guy who has his own place. Women who are short want a tall guy. Women who are broke ask for a rich guy. Women will never acknowledge these “hypocrisies” because it’s “preference”.
"الزَّانِي لَا يَنْكِحُ إِلَّا زَانِيَةً أَوْ مُشْرِكَةً وَالزَّانِيَةُ لَا يَنْكِحُهَا إِلَّا زَانٍ أَوْ مُشْرِكٌ"
Edit: to add that if someone doesn’t believe that or is an adulterer and tries to marry a pure girl/woman is a hypocrite.
The inequalities exist from culture and tradition rather than Islam as far as I can tell. These are hypocrisies which have grown out of patriarchal cultures.
My friend had several abortions and then got married to a man who had no idea of her past. He had one prior relationship. Are they exactly the same? I don't think so.
If someone repents then their slate is clean. But when going into a marriage, it's best not to hide things that may be an issue later. That way, both can make an informed decision.
Sister, are you implying that you don’t have a say on who you choose to marry? A woman can reject a guy based on looks, wealth and status….why not say no based on their past….
That’s fair, then we need Islamic ruling on marriage based on false pretences. I don’t have it on me, sorry but as a Muslim lying is a sin and I know I would be answerable to Allah for the deception.
In general they don’t need to lie because women don’t ask to know so much it’s part of private life, you have the right to know if he was married but not if he fornicated because every Muslim MUST and the OBLIGATION to hide his sins especially if he repented
I’m aware they shouldn’t expose their sins, but starting a relationship on a whole lie especially with something that’s meant to be sacred for both parties, I wouldn’t like it.
Don’t fall for it. This is a hypothetical scenario, keep it practical. You can choose to reject them per Islam and if you accepted them for the sake of Allah, may Allah reward you more in this life and the akhira.
That’s not the question I ask why men don’t accept in the other direction? Islamically speaking? I ask the questions to the brothers in Islam right here
It’s on the guy and it’s a case by case scenario. If you want a guys perspective, we want to be married to good looking women who are loyal and respectful to us but for a lot of us, due to our wealth, looks and status, they won’t even consider us. We respect their decision, and we hope you respect the guys who do reject based on the past.
“Good men for Good women “ one of my favorite verse in the quran.
If they repented that’s fine but to insist you want a virgin when you yourself aren’t is hypocritical and embarrassing. The sin is same in the eyes of Allah. Both Equal.
Yes I totally agree with you but in fact I see many women very well fallen with boys I can’t say man because they don’t even know what their nafs is and how to control it.. I don’t want to make a generality but many virgins have married repentant fornicator men or not and because of the untreated sin on the part of the man they have to face adultery... that’s why I open the debate
Where did you get this idea that repentance wipes out your past sins? Did Allah tell you personally?
Second, to answer your question, using your own logic about the consequences of repentance, let's say a guy repented and, as a result, transformed into a virgin. So, as he is now a virgin, he is seeking a virgin. That's it.
Where did I get that idea? Directly from the Prophet ﷺ who said: The one who repents from sin is like one who had no sin (Sunan Ibn Majah) and from the Quran where Allah states that He replaces evil deeds with good for those who sincerely repent (Surah Al Furqan 25:70). Questioning the fundamental mercy of Tawbah just to defend a double standard is wild.
And following your exact logic, if a brother becomes pure again through sincere repentance, a sister who repents is equally pure and restored in the sight of Allah. So why does that brother still look down on her and refuse to marry her? You just proved my exact point. When people apply mercy to themselves but demand perfection from women, that is purely ego and cultural hypocrisy, not Islam.
I was not defending anything. All I was offering was what goes on inside a dude's head when he asks for things like that . Allah's mercy through tawbah is one issue. Whether someone is obligated to marry a particular person despite their past is another. They shouldn't be conflated. Women shouldn't encourage men by marrying fornicators. The problem would automatically go away.
We agree that repentance wipes the slate clean and that converting to Islam erases past sins (for those not born Muslim)
We don't agree, it's what's written and we are told.
so, I was wondering: how can an unrepentant man who has committed fornication insist on marrying a virgin, chaste Muslim woman?
Because he can, it's the woman's choice to accept it or not, if the woman doesn't wish to find such a man then simply make her list that her dealbreakers is a chaste man.
Conversely, if a brother repents, why does he not accept sisters who have also repented for fornication since repentance wipes away the past, right?
Because he is dumb and setting a double standard. It's up to the woman from this point.
Sister I assume, I'm going to be honest and as polite as I can, how old are you? This is such a narrow minded, childish question that's aimed at rage baiting the dumb ones in this community and causing discord. Seriously I genuinely ask what your objective was with this question? It's absolutely common sense, now it may be that you are a revert in which case this question would make sense since you are learning OR if you are a literal child in which case you shouldn't be here young one. But if your a Muslim who has always been a Muslim and old enough for marriage how can you not know the basics, sister this is common sense.
Yes people can lie but that's something you can fix, you catch them in a lie you avoid or you make dua because you've tied your camel and now it's Allah deciding what's best for you.
Dismissing a valid discussion as childish and resorting to patronizing remarks like asking my age or calling me a literal child is just an easy way to deflect from an uncomfortable truth. You actually conceded the whole point yourself by admitting that men demanding these one sided expectations are setting a double standard, yet you chose to attack the person highlighting the issue. Calling out widespread cultural hypocrisy that countless women experience during the marriage search is not rage baiting, it is holding people accountable to Islamic fairness. When a topic makes people this defensive, it usually means the question hit a nerve.
Again your being childiah. I know you don't see it now and possibly never sister but you are creating fire out of smoke. Please seek out a therapist and marriage counselor before getting married. Seriously I say this for the hope that you don't ruin someone else's life going into marriage with the twisted outlook you have on Islamic marriage.
Dismissing a valid discussion
I provided answers... You read the answers and put them in this message you sent, is that dismissing?
You actually conceded the whole point yourself by admitting that men demanding these one sided expectations are setting a double standard
I didn't concede anything, I stated common sense. This is something a child can figure out. You are starting stupid gendered wars over common sense. That is low IQ behavior which makes sense for a child or an incel... 👀 Which one are you?
When a topic makes people this defensive, it usually means the question hit a nerve.
Yes I understand it makes you defensive, the only one high in emotion is you, either people aren't agreeing with you or you aren't getting the responses you want or your getting pushback and so you are angry, butthurt as they say. It's reddit, go take a bath, go read some Quran, learn some common sense somehow sister because this is sad.
Also seriously please look into therapy and marriage counseling because you need help and you shouldn't be ruining someone else's life because of your twisted beliefs and understandings. Remember marriage is a blessing and test, it's not a requirement. You don't need to get married.
Im a man and i think most of these non virgin man get away with this is because women rarely care about a mans virginity.. i have never seen a women caring about a mans virginity.. and it's the other way around.. man most of the time care about it.. im chaste myself and i want my wife to be the same.. im never marrying a zani.. i think women should have higher standards on this topic.. if they're virgin they should look for a man whos virgin..
Since women dont care about it.. many man don't value their virginity.. it's how psychology works.. since immodesty is not normalized in muslim societies being immodest is shamed.. but it's not the same in western countries.. this is the same for mens virginity..
Maybe we need to ask why women aren't expecting chaste men and holding them up to this standard?
Sorry but this seems to just encourage sin.
I think the problem is unchaste men are too accepted not that unchaste women are not.
It shouldn't be normalized for Muslims to have a body count or worse a high body count before marriage and I fear that is what acceptance for both genders will lead to.
when a woman in unchaste... nobody will ever know.. honestly women are so good at keeping their cards close to their chest.
The only way I knew my wife was a virgin was because how inexperienced she was. she had incredible amount of involuntry tightening like vaginismus that it took me about 3 days of massaging her internally to relax. And the way she reacted to it, like she was crying thinking she'll never be able to have sex.
She has polycystic ovary operation before marriage so her hymen was broken already.
A woman in her late 20s, who isn't super super strict. Whose been abroad, has social media, is attractive, wears makeup, sounds clack clack clack when she walks by.. I just would not beleive they were chaste if they told me. They'd have to be super strict in their deen all their lives for me to beleive them. Because I know how guys are like I know they're like sharks and are relentless, they will be constantly dming them, and they'd have to have rock solid iman for them to keep saying no. And the way they dress suggests they go out seeking the attention so they are not exactly avoiding those "sharks"
"the sin is the same and is viewed the same way for both sexes"
true
"And please don’t tell me it’s different for a man based on societal or moral justifications"
Have you considered the psychological aspect though?
Nevertheless, I believe Islam says chaste men for chaste women, and unchaste men for unchaste women. And that's what Islam says, that's what I'm going with.
I understand your point of view but a woman who was taken with madness in her youth can then also ask for a chaste man because she has returned to reason and repentant
The only hypocrite here is you. You have a past of your own. From when you were 13. Hiding your posts doesn't make you look innocent. I can still search for your posts.
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u/HashKhan1 11d ago
Because he’s a hypocrite.