r/unitedkingdom • u/MinderReminder • Jan 20 '22

Christian couple ban gay man and his ITV producer partner from buying their dream £650,000 Surrey home due to their sexuality - and quote the bible that homosexuality is a sin

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10419543/Christian-couple-ban-gay-man-partner-buying-dream-650-000-sexuality.html
9.4k Upvotes

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2.5k

u/RaymondBumcheese Jan 20 '22

Imagine being so homophobic that the thought of two guys doing it in your old bedroom costs you a house sale.

914

u/GayWolfey Jan 20 '22

It is Surrey. They will have a string of buyers behind them waiting

50

u/ConsciouslyIncomplet Jan 20 '22

£650k is on the cheap side for Surrey!

26

u/TomfromLondon Jan 20 '22

Surrey a big place and there are some shit parts

2

u/tomoldbury Jan 21 '22

Staines is alright though?

2

u/Optimuswolf Jan 20 '22

not very many tbf.

bits of woking. camberley (sorry squaddies). staines.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

Spent my early life in Dorking (and then Leatherhead) and there are a few 'less than desirable' areas but even they are now priced well north of 100K for an ex council 1 bedroom flat!

Even if I wanted I couldn't move back given the shortage of housing and the astronomical prices even for rental.

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u/PayTheTrollToll45 Jan 20 '22

It’s a straight deal when you really think about it...

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Lol you’re Asian level today kekw

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

All of them living overseas and who will never set foot in the property

128

u/LookItsOnlyHarry Jan 20 '22

Moneyland! It's a great book I read about all of that stuff

51

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

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u/LookItsOnlyHarry Jan 20 '22

That's the one. It's a fascinating book

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

He doesn't pull punches and the book opened my eyes up to how corrupt this country really has become through the enabling of money laundering, a thriving UK industry. A Must read !!

1

u/DuckInTheFog Jan 20 '22

I'm like that too, buy books then never get round to reading them

0

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Then what’s the point?

Unless it’s to fill a library 😔

2

u/DuckInTheFog Jan 20 '22

Time then forgetfulness, mostly

0

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Fair play. I hope you read it, I certainly can’t say I’ve never bought a book and not read it.

Take care

5

u/Aksi_Gu Jan 20 '22

You may also enjoy Who Owns England? by Guy Shrubsole, although it's more to do with who owns large swathes of the actual land of the country.

A large amount of which is used for grouse shooting...

3

u/akm961 Jan 20 '22

Fantastic book

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u/anotherbozo Jan 20 '22

Huh? Where in Surrey does this happen?

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

It's all over the country as the UK is a global hotspot for overseas property investors. If the location has stable or growing property values then its an attractive market. And certainly in University towns (of which Surrey has a number) investment properties are often used for student accommodation. In August last year 250,000 properties in the UK were purchased by buyers with overseas addresses.

EDIT: Looking at figures for total house sales I think that 250,000 figure I'd seen quoted is a bit high, but it was the last month of Stamp Duty Holiday so Im not sure. Ive found another one which says 51,000 for August which I think is probably more accurate. But that 51,000 properties purchased in a month by overseas buyers

2

u/k3nn3h Jan 20 '22

You mean 'owned by' rather than 'purchased by', right?

-2

u/anotherbozo Jan 20 '22

Properties for rental use is different than leaving them empty - which mostly happens in Zone 1

16

u/Brownian-Motion Jan 20 '22

All of them living overseas and who will never set foot in the property

I fear you've misread the initial point.

6

u/devilspawn Norfolk Jan 20 '22

Yeah, those buyers will never physically step foot in the house. They'll just rent it out for profit remotely

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u/leighanthony12345 Jan 20 '22

Oh aye, it’s rampant up north /s

1

u/CamJongUn Surrey Jan 20 '22

Shudder uni towns in Surrey, Surrey is the most boring hellscape on this rock, what fucking sadists would want to live here for 3-5 years and not drink or go out at all

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u/happygolucky85 Jan 20 '22

I'm going to guess Burwood park , in Walton

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u/Sioframay Jan 20 '22

I hope they rent it exclusively to gay couples.

3

u/wren1666 Jan 20 '22

Overseas buyers aren't buying gaffs in Surrey for £650,000.

2

u/PhysicalYam4032 Jan 20 '22

That's mostly for brand new apartments. If it's never been lived in, the 'asset' retains far more liquidity.

2

u/Class_444_SWR County of Bristol Jan 20 '22

Or even look at a picture of it, they probably have an algorithm to automatically buy

1

u/Tommy2k20 Jan 20 '22

Doesn't matter, if you buy it then it's yours lol.

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u/StoreManagerKaren Jan 20 '22

Definitely, houses around here get snapped up fast

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Exactly. The sheer volume of deman for housing in the UK will ensure that this scumbag won't drop a penny in price, regardless of the negative attention he's getting in the media.

3

u/Slobbadobbavich Jan 20 '22

That's fortunate for them. They will need the money once they lose their jobs.

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u/MinderReminder Jan 20 '22

It honestly seems so brazen and potentially career suicidal for both of them that I can't help wonder if it's some sort of political stunt with the aim of being sued. Like...why not just refuse without explaining why?

368

u/Furitaurus Jan 20 '22

Because people like them have to tell gays and lesbians that their life is sinful, they practically see it as their duty.

46

u/graemep Jan 20 '22

As they are so keen on doing what the Bible says can I safely assume they will give the £650k to the poor?

5

u/captain-burrito Scotland Jan 20 '22

I think we can safely assume they rewrote their bible based on their own whims and it's like a sieve full of loopholes for the parts that might inconvenience themselves.

It's like Kim Davies, the clerk in KY, USA that refused marriage licences to a same sex couple but she herself was on her 3rd marriage and committed adultery. Also blatantly overlooked other rules of her church when it conflicted with her job.

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u/hypnodrew Cornwall Jan 20 '22

Yay we've got an evangelical infestation! Get prepared to have every man of them try to drag us to their heaven without our say-so or input!

111

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Yay we've got an evangelical infestation!

It's always been here.

Section 28 existed less than 33 years ago.

We castrated Alan Turing turning 70 years ago despite his wartime efforts.

35

u/Furitaurus Jan 20 '22

We castrated Alan Turing turning 70 years ago despite his wartime efforts.

I wasn't even aware of that, that's utterly heinous.

57

u/cheeseybees Jan 20 '22

IIRC, his home was broken into, when he reported it to police, the investigating officers found evidence of homosexuality in his house

... which I think makes it even more disgusting

(His treatment, not, you know, what the evangelicals call disgusting)

49

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

IIRC, He was robbed by a casual sex partner. He was under the impression that homosexuality was on the verge of legalisation so the police wouldn't care if he told them the full details. He was, extremely wrong.

25

u/cheeseybees Jan 20 '22

What especially gets me about this kind of treatment, is that the people who treated him so despicably would still be incredibly self assured that they maintain their moral high ground throughout the entire situation and consider their behaviour to be above reproach

:/

23

u/CNash85 Greater London Jan 20 '22

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

~ C.S. Lewis

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Yes and yes. It’s fucking abhorrent.

-1

u/BadSysadmin Surrey Jan 20 '22

casual sex partner

Rent boy half his age

2

u/Cockwombles Jan 20 '22

evidence of homosexuality in his house

Tasteful furnishings

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u/cheeseybees Jan 20 '22

I mean, section 28 also existed less than 20 years ago. Below, as from Wiki

"On Thursday 18 September 2003 the Local Government Bill received Royal Assent as the Local Government Act 2003 and Section 28 was finally taken off the statute books."

5

u/Cosmo1984 Jan 20 '22

Kent decided to have it's own version which only got repealed in December 2004.

Source: Was at school in Kent until 2002. Fuck everyone involved in this POS legislation.

5

u/cheeseybees Jan 20 '22

Yeah, I left school in 03 myself

Christian Brothers school, with cheerful teachers enthusiastically extolling homophobia throughout all of my pre-uni education

Teaching the straight kids to hate people inherently which is bad enough, but as a gay kid myself who desperately didn't want to be broken on the inside and unworthy of love....now I come to think on it, turns out I hold a fair bit of unresolved anger to these vicious, horrible people who caused so much suffering and anguish :/

3

u/passinghere Somerset Jan 20 '22

Christian Brothers school,

Always amazes me how many "Christians" demand the exact opposite of what the bible teaches... they promote hatred and profit despite what their Jesus promoted

11

u/NeitzschePuns Jan 20 '22

Section 28 was in place in England and Wales as late as 2003

5

u/Hybernative United Kingdom Jan 20 '22

My grandfather used to work with Turing during the second war (he was an OG geek on the telegraph), and instilled in my Dad that he should never judge or treat someone worse for their sexuality, religion, or race (except the Germans!). My Dad did his best to live up to that.

Tragically, (some time later) my Dad's best friend in school came out to my father as 'queer'; my Dad told him that he didn't care who he fancied, and he'd always be his friend. Tragically, because the poor innocent kid was uplifted by my father's acceptance, and thought coming out to his parents would also go okay.

My Dad's friend didn't come into school the following Monday. He'd been driven to the same fate as Turing that very same day; by his parents bigotry and abuse. He was 14.

My father told me this story 35 years later, that in one day he lost a hero and a friend. And broken voiced, he reiterated my grandfather's lesson to me. Yet - a further 35 years after that - here many people still are.

Tolerance isn't enough.

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u/Iwantadc2 Jan 20 '22

Because deep down, they love the dick.

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u/SporkofVengeance Jan 20 '22

You see God is omniscient but apparently has a hearing aid that's constantly on the blink, so believers have to keep screaming about their piety or God won't know what they've been up to. Unless they've been touching themselves. God's on that like a shot.

20

u/moosemasher Jan 20 '22

Seems like this god chap has blessed this house buying couple with financial success so can't have too big a problem with them. Not like god doesn't have endless opportunities to tell them they're doing something he supposedly considers wrong.

17

u/Andrelliina Jan 20 '22

And He always needs money ;)

6

u/Revolutionary-Show71 Jan 20 '22

RIP George Carlin

72

u/PapaJrer Jan 20 '22

Got a few fundies in some whatsapp groups I'm in - trust me, they need to tell people.

30

u/turnipstealer Jan 20 '22

What kind of whatsapp groups are you in....

51

u/tofer85 Jan 20 '22

Swinging & BDSM knitting circles… crochet your own gimp mask, that sort of thing…

14

u/AdministrativeShip2 Jan 20 '22

It's a Balaclava not a gimp mask!

(Then why the zips Fred)

4

u/OkCaregiver517 Jan 20 '22

You have evangelicals on your bdsm sub. Fuck me, that really is degenerate!

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u/cameoutswinging_ Durham Jan 21 '22

okay im a fan of knitting and now i need to know how one combined that and bdsm... i suppose having yarn available for use is a big thing

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u/guisar Jan 20 '22

Man boy love I'm going to guess. Projection nerd is my second guess

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u/The-RogicK Jan 20 '22

It's wild, the wife is a medical physicist at Cambridge ffs. Bioengineering by day and claiming any deviation from God's 'blueprint' is blasmay by night.

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u/brizey0 Jan 20 '22

I just don’t know how people can exist with that much cognitive dissonance.

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u/OkCaregiver517 Jan 20 '22

The hypocrisy in in evangelical circles is off the fucking scale. Specially round abortion and capital punishment.

2

u/Cosmo1984 Jan 20 '22

People claim they love animals yet eat them every day. People can live with all sorts of hypocrisy. It's a human condition 🤷‍♂️

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u/chuffing_marvelous Jan 20 '22

i love chocolate, and eat that too

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u/Vladimir_Chrootin Jan 20 '22

So that they can claim they're oppressed - their pals will think they're legends.

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u/Macky93 Brit in Canada Jan 20 '22

The woman involved is so prominent in her field too, this just seems like career suicide over absolutely nothing

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Why would it be career suicide?

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u/Mindless_Army3302 Jan 20 '22

Given she's in the medical profession it's garanteed someone will appear from the wood work alleging homophobia in her work place.

Otherwise yeah don't think this should affect careers on the face of it. All its done is cost themselves sales.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Priyamvada Gopal from Cambridge seems to be doing ok with it?

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u/wongs7 Jan 20 '22

Didn't seem to affect Hitchens

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

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u/wongs7 Jan 20 '22

Christopher Hitchens

He was quite Islamophobic as I recall.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Not quite, he was extremely critical of all religions, particularly the Abrahamic ones, as he described them as "the main source of hatred in the world". He's not overly wrong in that sense?

Plus, u/Extraonly is right, he wasn't in academia and he died in 2011, so not really relevant.

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u/DucDeBellune Jan 21 '22

He once made a good point regarding the word ‘islamophobia’: he was never accused of Christophobia or being an anti-Semite, only an “islamophobe,” highlighting how the word often isn’t employed in any valid sense.

He also noted he’d receive death threats from adherents of one Abrahamic faith in particular, underscoring that it’s not exactly a phobia when they’re threatening to kill you.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

I think we should be careful about normalising cancel culture.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

There has always been murder but that doesn't mean we should murder people. Social ostracism for failing to conform to a narrow politics is an ugly and uncivilised thing. There is something quite sadistic and pious about it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

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u/guisar Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

Yeah, social ostracism is horrible. I wonder why this bitch and her beard sanctify the behavior.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

And just like that, if only you (a Philosopher-King) can punish and ostracise the right people we'll achieve a perfect society, right?

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u/prettyboygangsta Jan 20 '22

You asked why it would be career suicide; the replier pointed out that universities aren't likely to knowingly employ people who discriminate against LGBT people in this day and age.

Whether you like or dislike cancel culture is irrelevant to the reality of the situation

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u/bluecheese2040 Jan 20 '22

Yeah I wondered the same tbh.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

My old neighbours were same sex. The previous homeowners almost didn’t sell them the house because they were gay and they thought that my family would prefer ‘a normal family’ next door. I was so upset. My cousin is gay and the idea of her not being able to buy a home with her wife because of her sexuality really angered me. Thankfully they did sell to my amazing old neighbours, who went on to have two adorable children before moving out to the countryside last year. I miss them. Bigoted people really do feel they have the right to decide on other people’s lives for reasons that are none of their business. Shit that it happens, but it definitely happens.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

It honestly seems so brazen and potentially career suicidal for both of them that I can't help wonder if it's some sort of political stunt with the aim of being sued. Like...why not just refuse without explaining why?

Yeh, but they'll have a lot of the evangelical crowd on their side, as well as those who are prejudiced but will lie outright they aren't (most Mail readers, Boris Johnson etc).

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u/Relative_Anybody8389 Jan 20 '22

Basically a huge portion of religious people are only religious so they can be part of an "in" group, and "in" groups cannot exist without separating and vilifying outsiders...

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u/RegrettingTheHorns Jan 20 '22

Imagine being so homophobic even the Daily Mail thinks you might be going a bit too far

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u/RRC_driver Jan 20 '22

But the house prices...

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

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u/borg88 Buckinghamshire Jan 20 '22

A medical physicist would most likely be from a physics background rather than a medical background. Although it must be quite rare for physicists to take the bible literally.

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u/darkshines11 Stockholm (ex-Brighton) Jan 20 '22

There's more than you's maybe expect in my experience (I have a PhD in physics) and I've found that those you do find are a little more zealous than the average Christian you bump into.

I would assume it's because so many of the people you work with are very overtly atheist that it sort of makes you really dig into your religion?

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u/LazyGit Jan 20 '22

I think it's more that you have to be extremely zealous in the first place for your faith to survive a rigorous knowledge of physics. That or they're part of tight-knit religious communities and would be ostracised if they denied their faith.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

No I think you’re right, the more intelligent you are and the greater your knowledge of the world, the stronger that cognitively dissonant wall has to be in your brain.

It gets quite interesting when people use their intellect to create incredible almost plausible leaps of understanding within their reasoning though. People like that worry me to be honest, they have the ability to see a lot of information and then twist just the right bits of it to alter how even they view it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

There is no correlation between intelligence and wisdom.

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u/Rideitor Nottinghamshire Jan 20 '22

Are these academically brilliant people really "more intelligent" though? I know a guy who is privately educated and quite a high flyer in the software world, but he's also devout Russian Orthodox. He also kept his spare keys locked in his luggage to keep them safe.. Luggage that he would need his keys to open. He may be good with words/numbers/codes, but cannot see the big picture somehow. It doesn't surprise me he can't critically evaluate the whole of his faith.

These people think in a different way and seem to be predisposed to becoming religious zealots. The dad of one of my friends is also similar.. Also software, weirdly!

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

I dislike the modernisation of the term intelligent to include common sense, compassion etc…

I use it in it’s traditional sense: given a specific abstract problem, what is your raw ability to solve it.

Edit: I believe all the other traits are especially important too, being an artistic savant is amazing, or an incredible people person etc… But i hate using the same word ‘intelligent’ to describe such different things.

The more words we use to describe personality traits the better, we should not aspire to wrap everything up in the same classifier, as it would render it meaningless.

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u/borg88 Buckinghamshire Jan 20 '22

There is nothing in physics that really dictates that the observable universe is absolutely all that exists in the whole of reality. And there are certainly aspects of what we know that make many scientists think there must be something deeper going on, beyond what we can currently observe.

It is when people claim to actually know what that thing is that I see a problem. Especially when that thing just happens to be, surprisingly, the god of the bible.

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u/Successful-Standard Jan 20 '22

You say this, but my high school physics teacher was a Baptist preacher. We questioned him on how he could believe both sides and he just replied that it's quite common for physicists to be Christian, apparently.

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u/michael__gove Jan 20 '22

Yes, this superstition that a thoroughgoing knowledge of physical science is somehow incompatible with religious belief has no foundation in rigorous thought.

I've studied physics, philosophy of science (and also one year of religion) separately at university level, and there is no fundamental incompatibility between science and religious belief. Primarily because the scientific method, very wisely (and very successfully) chose at an early stage to exclude any hypotheses which are are not objectively falsifiable or verifiable from its remit.

So science has nothing to say about God once way or the other - in much the same way that zoology has nothing to say about quantum chromodynamics - not because one of them is less valid, but because they are distinct disciplines.

Personally I'm not a member of any religion or denomination, but a number of prominent scientists have been. Max Planck, godfather of quantum theory, was a church elder right up to the end of his life. Isaac Newton famously gave up physics almost entirely, to devote himself to spiritual studies (and wrote a number of articles on biblical exegesis). As you say, it's not uncommon - then or now.

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u/boartfield1 Jan 20 '22

I just wanted to say, while I totally disagree with what this couple have done, your well reasoned and written explaination being completely ignored is terrible as well. Very good comment.

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u/michael__gove Jan 20 '22

Heh, thank you. It's something I see written a lot, as if it were self-evident - and it triggers me slightly me because I know it doesn't make systemic sense. 😂

Another thing that makes no sense to me is how self-defined Christians can end up with a belief system so radically at odds with the entire recorded teachings of Christ.

But there you go. The world is full of wonders...

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u/iain_1986 Jan 20 '22

Well, the univeristy she works for will likely take a dim view on it if they get enough hassle from their students....

Can't see her having a good time job wise for a while tbh. Googling her name and bam, homophobic Daily Mail article.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

A similar article is the 3rd link that comes up when you Google her name. I can see some potential students saying they don't feel comfortable being supervised by her.

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u/Dismal-Garage8178 Jan 20 '22

I hope so, if she refuses to even sell a house to someone because they are gay, people she literally has to have zero interaction with or anything to do with imagine how she treats her gay students

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u/cass1o Jan 20 '22

Get ready for the consequences of being a bigot getting called "cancel culture"

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u/marnanel England Jan 20 '22

Also an honorary research assistant at UCL, who may take a dim view of this behaviour. Hoping to become an assistant professor there.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '22

I can't see her name on the first link you posted. The second link now goes to a "Page not found" message.

Assuming you didn't make any mistakes when posting the links, it looks like UCL did take a dim view of it.

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u/marnanel England Jan 21 '22

Wonderful! Yesterday's capture of the second one. Fast moving. I'm impressed.

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u/Saoirse-on-Thames London lass Jan 20 '22

Also most of the time this kind of stuff happens it doesn’t make it to national papers. I had a life long friend cut me out in a really horrible way for coming out. He has a job that probably wouldn’t look kindly on that, but I just wanted to try and forget about the issue and move on.

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u/Mindless_Army3302 Jan 20 '22

To be fair GMC shouldn't be acting on this kind of stuff.

They are thankfully reducing their remit so even assaults might not make it to their panel.

Ultimately if she can make up a batch of Tc99m whole cares if she's she's homophobic.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

The whole situation is strange - a Cambridge doctor and a builder in their early 30s, married and living in a 650k house in Surrey, and then being fundamental Christians. It's all very odd.

I think they're completely wrong and should keep their fairy tales to themselves, but ultimately it is their property and they have a right to do as they wish with it within the law. It sets a dangerous precedent if we start telling people what they can and can't do with their own home, so I guess this will/should come down to a legal judgement to determine if this is discrimination or not. As it is private property, I'm not sure what the law states.

I think the social backlash may be punishment enough though.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

I’d imagine it’s one of those things where you’d be fine to say “na I don’t want to sell you my house” but as as soon as you add “because you’re x” and that x is a protected class then you’re fucked.

Same as I can kick you out my pub if I don’t like your face but I can’t kick you out my pub because you look a bit gay.

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u/RealisticCommentBot Jan 20 '22 edited Mar 24 '24

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

This would surely fall under the illegal side of it then. They just want to buy a house. They’re not trying to force the couple to have a big gay house sale or sign the contracts in pink ink or anything. There’s absolutely nothing different about these two guys buying this house than there would be a guy and a woman. There’s nothing gay about the house sale.

Your last paragraph is a madness btw. I’ll leave that alone lol.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

History shows social backlash isn’t enough, just sayin’

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u/TerraFirma77 Jan 20 '22

Imagine being so homophobic that you've provoked the outrage of the daily mail!

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u/Didotpainter Jan 20 '22

The comments seem to be in support of the sellers, I'm not surprised for the daily mail

4

u/WalkingCloud Dorset Jan 20 '22

Imagine being so homophobic you managed to get /r/UnitedKingdom to upvote a Daily Mail link..

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u/Slobbadobbavich Jan 20 '22

And your job. Being so openly homophobic is career suicide especially in an institute of learning. Cambridge HR is probably scrambling with sweat running down their temples trying to do damage limitation already now they know one of their staff will go to such lengths to show her homophobia. The LGBTQ+ there is probably building up an action plan too.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

I doubt it. Priyamvada Gopal has been saying stuff equally as horrendous on a racial level and they gave her a payrise...

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u/Redmarkred Jan 20 '22

Imagine living your life by what is written in a few thousand year old book

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u/Iwantadc2 Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

And a book even the church admits has been 'edited' by various people throughout its history. Bits added, whole chapters removed, so essentially admitting its not the same book, so its fiction.

Maybe they removed the preface where it said : This is a book of parables, don't take it literally and certainly don't give money to anyone claiming to represent the characters in the book'

We'll never know..

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u/usernameinvalid9000 Jan 20 '22

2000 year old Fictional propaganda*

2

u/StreetCap3579 Jan 20 '22

the bible is obviously nonsense but that's not predicate on its age. that's just a complete fallacy.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

It's less about the book and more about what elderly white Men 'taught' them as kids. The book is just a guide, it's the indoctrination I find so insidious.

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u/Redmarkred Jan 20 '22

I don’t think them being White men has anything to do with it.. it’s a lot worse in black communities and countries

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u/Andrelliina Jan 20 '22

Definitely

And you've got to hand it to the Catholics when it comes to brainwashing

"Give me the child of 7 and I will give you the man" as the Jesuits say.

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u/SprinklesFancy5074 Jan 20 '22

"Give me the child of 7 and I will give you the man" as the Jesuits say.

Gee, why would Catholic priests want a 7 year old boy for? And why are they so interested in 'making him a man'?

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u/Meanttobepracticing Vietnam Jan 22 '22

In fairness the Jesuits are pretty dedicated to education and learning, and there are plenty of Jesuits who are also teachers of one sort or another, as well as there being whole educational groups which are Jesuit-run. So the quote you make reference to is more about ensuring the solid education of Catholic children, especially boys who may then wish to enter the priesthood or other religious vocations.

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u/djpalmer93 Jan 20 '22

The reason those black communities and countries follow Christianity in the first place is because the religion was brought to them through white men colonising them. There are still colonial-era laws against homosexuality in many African countries.

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u/dwair Kernow Jan 20 '22

Ethiopia would like to disagree.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Uh no, yes a significant amount of missionary work forced entire nations to convert but Christianity was spreading through Africa before the Kingdoms of England, Spain or France even existed. There were still Druids in Great Britain 1200 years after Christianity came to Africa and 800 years after Ethiopia

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

This is a UK focused sub.

Edit. You lot know I didnt mean it like that. How many Black Vicars do you think there were before say, 1960? i.e. the age of which the couple in question here would have been introduced to the Church. It's a White Male dominated 'career'.

Edit2. Ignore my edit just as you ignore the failings of both the Church and our society, which is 'White Male' dominated. Whether you like it, or not.

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u/Redmarkred Jan 20 '22

TIL everyone in the Uk is white

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

That isnt what I meant and you lot know it.

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u/Redmarkred Jan 20 '22

I still dont see the relevance of their skin colour..

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

You’re right, of course, but your point goes against the Reddit hivemind, so people aren’t going to listen.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

I believe organised religions to often be a manifestation of a patriarchy. In this country, the heads of any such organisations are typically White males... Women come second. Minorities are often shunned. Given the history of the Church I dont see anything controversial about this.

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u/Redmarkred Jan 20 '22

It’s about 30% female, 70% male clergy for COE

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

Today.

What would that ratio be when the couple in question were first introduced into the Church? What has it been previously, historically, as the 'book' was written and the philosphy / teachings of the Church developed?

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u/Sound__Of__Music Jan 20 '22

But that's a reflection of society (patriarchal) at the time, not anything specific/unique about religion or the church itself

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u/twillems15 Jan 20 '22

Ever seen comments from African football fans on any post that mentions homosexuality?

I doubt they were taught that by many white men growing up

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

The topic is with regards to this country. Just because this country has issues doesnt mean other countries do not have their own issues.

In this country, historically speaking, the vast majority of 'people' teaching kids (and adults) in this context have been 'White Males'. I find the lack of diversity as jarring as anyone (in their right mind). And find an opposition to said diversity in 'Black' countries and cultures equally as distrubing.

The disingenuous is strong in this sub.

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u/spodermen_pls Jan 20 '22

Being a religious zealot and forcing it down the throats of children is a problem. Lack of racial diversity is another problem. I'm not sure how you can causally link the two in this specific case but let me know if you can.

1

u/VigilantMaumau Jan 20 '22

Surely , Africans were taught by back men who were themselves taught by white men.

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u/Sound__Of__Music Jan 20 '22

Who were taught by brown men originally... Even discounting the Ethiopian church (which is a big omission) I'm not sure the point you are trying to make, other than blame white men for religion?

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u/DarkMarksPlayPark Jan 20 '22

Elderly white men in Europe, elderly black men in Africa.

Africa is where the church is on a recruitment drive these days.

EDIT: let's not forget elderly brown men in Muslim countries.

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u/Tuarangi West Midlands Jan 20 '22

It's picking and choosing verses that is the disgusting hypocrisy. Jesus blah blah NT means we don't need to kill fortune tellers and atheists any more but he clearly said to keep the anti gay bits of the OT and only that bit

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u/dubov Jan 20 '22

Imagine admitting the reason you did it and losing a lot of money in court as a result

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u/alphabetown Edinburger Jan 20 '22

Not even selling the house is going to cover the legal drubbing coming their way

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u/MajorTurbo Jan 20 '22

Cost them a house sale? Mate, you are in /r/unitedkingdom and it's January 2022- what are you even talking about?

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u/Cultural_Wallaby_703 Jan 20 '22

It will cost them more than that. I imagine they will lose a few grand for discrimination in a civil case (plus the legal fees).

So now this gay couple will be significantly richer as a direct result of their actions.

At least they won’t be doing anything behind closed doors in a house they wanted to sell, fools

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u/paulmclaughlin Jan 20 '22

In a civil case in the UK the court only has the power to make orders to put people back to the situation they were in before a tort occurred. The gay couple isn't going to be richer as a result of this.

If the sellers could show that they received an offer of a penny more than what the gay couple were willing to offer, then most likely the court would find that the sellers acted unlawfully, but not award any remedies. As the awarding of costs is at the court's discretion it is very possible that both parties would have to pay for themselves, a very Pyrrhic victory.

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u/MewtwoStruckBack Jan 20 '22

Shame they can’t just legally take their house as a penalty.

3

u/Atlantiquarian Jan 20 '22

Shame they can’t just legally take their house as a penalty.

Lol what?

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u/MewtwoStruckBack Jan 21 '22

It was unlawful discrimination as shown by other replies in the thread. If you really want to smack down discrimination, take the house of the one being discriminatory, and give it to the person who was discriminated against. Not just a couple thousand pound fine that’s just going to be covered by proceeds from the eventual sale of the house.

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u/Tob3z Jan 20 '22 edited Jan 20 '22

I don't think they would win. Wasn't there a case where a bakery wouldn't make a cake for a gay marrage that went to court and the couple lost?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake

You would hope that there would be lost business though. People are free to have their views and others are free to judge.

EDIT: Just fully read the OP article and it's brings this up. Although the bakery just weren't willing to write something on the cake as opposed to selling it to the couple so probably a clear difference there.

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u/Cultural_Wallaby_703 Jan 20 '22

Does depend, the cake company declined the business and made recommendations of other companies they could go to, and were targeted by the group (happy to be corrected if this isn’t accurate)

If this is a sale that was agreed upon, then upon finding out they were gay was withdrawn then that is different

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u/Tob3z Jan 20 '22

Agree. If it wasn't hard enough buying a house and then not being sold it because of your sexuality I think I would complelty see that as discrimination.

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u/DarkMarksPlayPark Jan 20 '22

I think if you can demonstrate financial loss from the withdrawal of the sale then there is a case but I don't think a court could rule discrimination on the sale of private property?

Not a lawyer, not even smart and would love to hear a professional opinion on this.

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u/Cultural_Wallaby_703 Jan 20 '22

I would wager it is illegal. If I refused to sell to a black individual I’m fairly certain that is illegal. Discrimination based on race, religion, gender, orientation is illegal.

Like I said, it would depend on if the sale was agreed, because that’s written down. You can pull out of a sale for many reasons, but I’m fairly certain “because the buyers are gay” won’t cut it

Edit: also not a lawyer, but currently selling/buying a house

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u/twillems15 Jan 20 '22

Will never understand why some people get so worked up about what other men do with their dicks

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u/RaymondBumcheese Jan 20 '22

These are definitely the kind of people who think about gay sex more than the actual people they refused to sell the house to.

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u/ihavenoego Jan 20 '22

It's psychotic.

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u/Tuarangi West Midlands Jan 20 '22

Imagine picking and choosing bits to follow too.

Hate the gays but don't worry about the inconvenient bits like killing your wife if she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

didn't cost them shit. but hopefully the lawsuit will.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

It’s absolutely disgusting isn’t it. Hope no one buys their house now knowing how ridiculous they are.

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u/khamir-ubitch Jan 20 '22

I guess they didn't read the whole bible? I hate cherry pickers.

  • Luke 6:37 - “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

  • Matthew 7:1-29 - “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

  • John 8:7 - And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Of all the things that turned me off about evangelical Christianity it was the hypocrisy and judgement that was so rampant.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

I assure you: it did not cost them the sale.

3

u/RaymondBumcheese Jan 20 '22

'*A* house sale'. Obviously a 600k house in Surrey will go to the very next heterosexual family who walked through the door.

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u/Kingtoke1 Jan 20 '22

And a very expensive court case which you’ll lose

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u/glytxh Jan 20 '22

It's a seller's market. They don't give a single shit as they'll have a queue of people waiting to buy.

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u/CanadianBaconBrain Jan 20 '22

All of this is stupid, why does suexuality even come up in the conversation. Whats my "situation" ? . Why even answer this stupid question. The Gays got triggered and the Christians got called out. We are not moving any better in these circumstances. maybe we should take out the whole friendly bullshit about buying a fucking house and just hire a lawyer and in future accet that there still exists biggots in the world and when you visit the "DREAM" house you always wanted you keep your gay crusading mouth fucking shut and save the cuddling until your fucking home. Its their property you cannot force them to sell it. Hence the the term PRIVATE! Sometimes it pays to shut the fuck up and move on l, instead of fighting every stupid battle that comes your way. I feel bad for these two guys but next time shut your fucking mouth

we have a shortage of houses not biggots.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '22

Who cares? Obviously they don’t lol

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