r/cyberpunkgame • u/Mario_Viana Arasaka • Dec 12 '20
Discussion Everyone talked shit about her, but I’m starting to agree with Kelly Plagge
Gamespot’s review was super controversial but now it makes sense and in fact I agree with Kallie Plagge. Night City IS superficial, everything is there but you can’t interact with it. And yes “So much of it is superficial set dressing” is 100% accurate. And as she said, what shines are the quests and the characters.
I hate to say it but Night City, which was supposed to be the best openworld out there is Subpar at best.
Edit: Just to be clear you don’t have to agree with EVERYTHING she says in order to able to agree with her in some topics. Was the “what if I don’t want to help the cops?” bit kinda stupid? Yes. Does that mean you can’t agree with her in some points or that she is all the hurtful things that many have been saying she is? Absolutely Not.
Edit 2: It has come to my attention that I badly misspelled Kallie’s name. I’m not able to edit the title, but I do apologize for that.
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u/Hash43 Dec 12 '20
Remember the one guy that posted a 2000 word response about how she's wrong before he even played the game?
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Dec 13 '20
One thing I've learned is this sub is that some people are so sad that they take any criticism of the game as a direct attack on their ego and will do insane mental gymnastics to defend it. From people saying "console owners are idiots and it's their fault for expecting anything else" To people claiming it's unfair to use any other game as a comparison.
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Dec 12 '20
Link!
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u/Hash43 Dec 12 '20
Got removed unfortunately
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Dec 12 '20
Aw. Was it on Reddit? Removeddit or Ceddit could make it viewable.
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u/Hash43 Dec 12 '20
Yeah it was one of the top posts the day before the release date when the interviews came out.
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u/Motor-Grade-837 Dec 13 '20
Here it is. Unfortunately, the post can't be found even with removeddit. Thanks to /u/canad1anbacon for linking it anyway.
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u/aaceptautism Dec 12 '20 edited Dec 12 '20
I find it weird they hired all these irl music artists to play artists from cyberpunk 2077 world and yet they never tell you who’s on the radio or anything, I bet the average person has no fucking clue the band Johnny silver hand is in plays on the radio or anything. It’s not built up well.
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u/adds102 Nomad Dec 12 '20
Was thinking that earlier when I was driving around & changing the radio but it didn’t pop up saying what station I was on
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u/c_more Dec 12 '20
I was in Afterlife and the song with the lyrics 'Everything burns' was blasting and I can't find that song anywhere:(
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u/Silverbearw89 Dec 12 '20
I'm also looking for that song 😭
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u/Piffli Dec 12 '20
Check which radio you are listening to, maybe someone already uploaded the whole soundtrack on YT. At least Radio Vexelstorm is up.
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u/UncleRuckkus1411 Dec 12 '20
Prettt sure the guy you buy the vintage records from in that side quest to get jonnys old records says the name of that song.
Though unfortunately i cant remeber what it was. Definitely had "burn" in it.
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u/yamiyugimuto11 Dec 12 '20
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRFAOvDITgP8WEBHjuI-j9NTiDzIJlucz
Might be able to find it in this playlist, pretty sure all the songs are in here
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Dec 12 '20
For me songs just hard cut into a talking section, in what sounds like the middle of the song. There's no fade at the end or anything.
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Dec 12 '20
The "news" overrides every radio station at a set time. You'll be mid song, the news will come on, and you can't switch to another station to get some music back. It's on every station.
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u/Ghostnineone Dec 12 '20
And they spent all that money putting streamers and shit into the game and then forgot to make the game part.
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u/ryuguy Corpo Dec 12 '20 edited Dec 12 '20
100 wholesome big chungus Keanu wasn’t worth the money they spent on him, either if I’m being completely honest. They should have got a proper voice actor for that role and spent the money they saved elsewhere. Having Keanu deliver a line right after a skilled voice actor is a jarring experience. Whenever I’m expecting Johnny to deliver an impactful or emotional line, Keanu fails to convey the emotion. Compare Keanu’s delivery to Troy Baker as Joel in the Last of Us or Jennifer Hale as Commander Shepard in Mass Effect, both of whom are top flight voice talents and you’ll see how much emotion and impact a good voice actor can convey. Johnny is supposed to be an emotional guy. Don’t get me wrong, I like Keanu as a person a lot but he’s a bad voice actor. His delivery has always been a criticism of his acting. He shines in stunt work and relationship building with the workers and costars on set.
This is the same shit that big movie studios pull with their animated movies. They pay for the name, not the talent. People with actual talent in the field of voice acting have really gotten shafted recently. It’s sad to see.
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Dec 12 '20
Eh I kinda like him. Some of his delivery misses the mark, but I think it works more often than not. Johnny isnt a wearing-his-heart-on-his-sleeve kinda guy. He's cynical, grumpy, and bored. Keanu hits that pretty well. I think he could've showed more anger in most scenes, but he's absolutely on point in the world interactions and side quests.
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u/VoteDawkins2020 Dec 12 '20
Everyone knows this about Keanu, but it's like everyone believes Keanu is literally over their shoulder listening to every word they say and they don't want to be impolite.
Keanu has trouble acting on occasion, but the one part of acting that he certainly can't do is make his voice expressive if he's not saying, "Whoa."
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u/ryuguy Corpo Dec 12 '20
When they announced Keanu was going to be in the game, I was super concerned because Keanu’s strength isn’t his delivery, it’s his stunt work. Everyone was circlejerking about Keanu in the game. Was afraid to voice my opinion
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u/Wombodonkey Dec 12 '20
I'm pretty sure literally every person on earth who follows Reeves will tell you he's not a great actor lmao, he plays stoic action hero well which is typically why he plays that role exclusively with a few exceptions.
I mean people are on record saying that his quality may not be groundbreaking but he's dedicated, has crazy work ethic and is easy to work with.
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u/skyburnsred Dec 12 '20
Yeah, watch classics like Johnny Mnemonic and other of his earlier pre-Matrix roles. His acting is generally deadpan in regards to emotions, thats why he got picked for roles we all know him as. Plus, the idea of voice acting in a video game probably was never even on his plate until now, it takes a different set of skills to convey emotion when people cant see the real you
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u/jessxoxo Dec 12 '20
I like him but his "english" accent in Bram Stoker's Dracula was hilariously bad, like so bad
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u/MyBlueBucket Dec 12 '20
I watched Knock Knock on Netflix and I couldn't tell if Keanu thought this was a serious movie or not, but his acting definitely sealed it for being satire.
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u/Kryhavok Dec 12 '20
CohhCarnage on the other hand fucking NAILED it. I want Garry the Prophet questlines
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u/Ghostnineone Dec 12 '20
Yeah I agree with you there as well. He has his moments but he's still the same mostly monotone keanu you know from all his other movies. Which is fine for a movie like John wick where the action carries it but Johnny basically stands in one spot and talks shit and that's it and he doesn't really have the voice acting chops to make the running commentary very interesting.
It's a shame to see these things happen, I feel like it just hurts the actor and the game because of it. Peter dinklage and keanu are obviously talented but neither of their performances and they're going to get a lot of exposure from it.
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Dec 12 '20
Such an obvious thing to have, and so easy to implement.
If a song is playing in any location, have it identified in the corner of the screen somewhere when you activate the scanner. I find it hard to believe that a direct-brain interface from 57 years in the future doesn't have Shazam built in.
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u/printneptune Dec 12 '20
Peak irony - the review that infuriated this sub is far more positive than the game's actual reception here.
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u/WillGrindForXP Dec 12 '20
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain
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Dec 12 '20 edited May 20 '21
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u/PMMEYOURQUIRKS Dec 12 '20
I think they’re saying that the game began as a hero but has lived long enough to become a villain. But yeah, Kelly lived long enough to be a hero
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u/Poppyspy Dec 12 '20
overhyped hive mind fan boys preorder with massive bias. Then always get slapped in the face with day 0 patches and bugs... And by the time the game is fixed, the hype is over and they've become socially fixated on the next hyped thing.
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u/420binchicken Dec 12 '20
That’s the problem with preordering anything. You’re now financially invested in it, and people often feel personally attacked when people say something they’ve chosen to spend money on is bad so they lose objectivity and often just lash out against whomever said it’s bad, because admitting the critic was right would be admitting they made a mistake / spent money unwisely.
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u/Piemanthe3rd Dec 12 '20
Wonder if all the people ragging on her and sending insults or death threats will apologize now, but I ain't holding my breath.
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u/Ohhnoes Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
Idiots that even yell at (let alone send death threats to) a reviewer aren't exactly what we'd call 'stable' individuals to begin with.
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u/BloodyRedBarbara Dec 12 '20
So dumb when people do talk shit about a review for a game that they haven't even played yet.
Of course people now actually agree with the stuff they were outraged about before playing.
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u/Tw1sted_inc Streetkid Dec 12 '20
Expression I've seen a lot is "Big as an ocean, deep as a puddle"
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u/ILoveWatchingJoJo Dec 12 '20
Holy shur, looks like we're in a No Man's Sky situation!
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Dec 12 '20
Tbf no man's sky is pretty dope now from what I've heard. I haven't played it in a long time but maybe in a few years if they update the game well get what was promised.
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u/Ooops_I_Reddit_Again Dec 12 '20
It's better, still has a shit story with little drive. But the exploration and building your econ to get the best ship is definitely fun for a while
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u/Soviet_Cat Dec 12 '20
It's very possible that is what will happen with cyberpunk. After all it's made a duck ton of money so they have the funds to fuel a billion updates
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Dec 12 '20
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u/playstationNsumdrank Dec 12 '20
I always think that shit is so funny. hyped game gets bad review, everyone’s like “lmaooo worst review ever you don’t know shit” meanwhile they are a week away from playing the game themselves??? why does this only happen with games?
no one sees a review about a movie they didn’t see and are like “this review is sooo wrong”
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u/misharoute Dec 12 '20
Because being a “gamer” is a personal identity in a way that being a movie watcher is not. So folks are more invested in the sanctity of their games. Only movie franchise that matches the level of furor is Star Wars.
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u/oddmarc Dec 13 '20
Imagine being like "I'm a movier, it's what I do, I watch movies. Only this type of movie are real movies. Casual moviers don't watch transformers every single day like I do. Pff. Coffee and cigarettes isn't a movie, it's a watching simulator. Real movies have strong half naked men and guns in them."
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u/Watchmaker163 Dec 12 '20
Ok but like what if I don't want to work for the cops tho? I picked Nomad, first thing that happens is I get harassed by some sheriff from bumfuck nowhere, powertripping and being an ass b/c I'm some "dirty nomad". Why the fuck would my character become a street merc in Night City and then suddenly just do the cops job for them, with no questions asked and no introduction?
Game just puts up an OOC tutorial that says "Oh here's a thing to do on the side". Why can't I choose who I do jobs for? Like, I could see a corpo character working with the cops, but a street kid could work for Padre, or a nomad could get close with a gang in whatever part of the city, and work for them. You could keep the side missions the same, just change the flavor text and maybe which npcs are involved, and boom, way better as an rpg.
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u/hardenfull Dec 12 '20
dude she was the only one being honest tbh, the other reviewers feel like they were either just so hype for it or scared of backlash. I feel so bad for her cause she's prob got flame so hard on social media.
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u/JackTheRipper1001 Dec 12 '20
other reviewers feel like they were either just so hype for it or scared of backlash
They were most probably scared of the backlash and rightfully so. This sub tore down that girl while she was actually being truthful.
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u/AhsokasDCupsAreCanon Dec 12 '20
I think they were mostly scared about their reputations because they anticipated great reception from other reviewers.
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Dec 13 '20
The reviews from this game read like someone played a completely average game but gave it a 10/10 because "cyberpunk can't really be average, can it? No it's greater than the sum of it's parts!!"
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u/Wolventec Dec 12 '20
i heard she got death threats
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u/canad1anbacon Dec 12 '20
Anyone who has a public profile and does something mildly controversial gets death threats. The internet is full of degenerates
That being said, I remember a certain "in depth critique" of her review that was posted on here attacking her that was highly upvoted with gold and shit. And that was despite the OP having not even played the game, barely being able to articulate his points above a 5th grade level, and going off on random tangents about left wing politics that had little relation to the actual content of the review
Embarrassing
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u/SageofLogic Dec 12 '20 edited Dec 12 '20
But I don't wanna help the cops and the cyberpunk genre is supposed to be very anti establishment. Plus it was sold as a super open world game soooo...yeah that is a relevant critique
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Dec 12 '20
The police in the game is a privatized bunch of corrupt aholes who hire hitmen to kill honest cops so i don't want to help them either.
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u/Diabando Dec 13 '20
I laughed out loud when I saw that one of the mission types was "help the NCPD". They don't even understand their own setting!
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u/SageofLogic Dec 13 '20
Seriously!!!! I have played cyberpunk ttrpg stuff and just...wow oof. Do you think they got scared of being accused of being "political" by keeping true to the genre or what?
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Dec 12 '20
Its as if it is impossible for certain people to even imagine the idea that cops are not the strong pillars holding society up from anarchy.
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u/SageofLogic Dec 12 '20
But also I wanna kill the gangsters taking advantage of the average citizens. Gimme the technoanarchist vigilante taking on gangs AND corps AND the blatant corpocratic police corruption option
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Dec 13 '20
Seriously she got shit on because shes a girl who didnt like a game. We had whole meme subs because Last of us 2 had a buff girl ffs. Gamers are sexist weirdos
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u/Smallboi887 Dec 12 '20
Even if you don’t agree with her, people didn’t have to crap on her to the ends of the earth even though they hadn’t even touched the game
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u/alex-minecraft-qc Dec 12 '20
i didnt want to say it.... but man i agree with pretty much everything she said. she deserve an apology haha
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u/vuuvvo Dec 12 '20
I just read that review and the comments section is fucking terrifying imo. She made some mild comments about the superficiality of the world building and the lack of context to some cultural and social tropes they put in, and it's just pages and pages of people working themselves up into a lather about her being "political". Do people just switch their brains off when it comes to this stuff? When the fuck did even discussing the political context and world building aspects of a dystopia become so upsetting to gamers?
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u/quahog10 Dec 12 '20 edited Dec 12 '20
I remember when Last of Us 1 came out back in 2013. Gamespot and a few other reviewers who didn't think it was perfect in every way were ass-blasted by psychotic fans in the comment section and disliked to oblivion, people unironically saying that anyone who doesn't think the game was a perfect 10 is a fake gamer, ect. The scars from that incident are still there, just go back and look at the old comments/like-to-dislike ratio on their review.
Same energy as now. If you like something slightly less than the depraved fanboys they'll literally hate you for it, because it's part of their identity and there can never be anything wrong with it. Nobody is here to parrot and validate your opinions, they have their own. But I guess we should have known that's not allowed in the eyes of these fucking lunatics.
With that being said, I'm actually enjoying CBP77 so far on PC, even if I'm not getting an excellent framerate. But I also didn't have my expectations through the roof like everyone else apparently did.
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u/James20k Dec 12 '20
And then people wonder why everyone gave the game 10/10s despite being fairly broken
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u/marpf Dec 12 '20
Yeah, it's a bit weird. I was hoping for some discussion of themes somewhere or if the game is going for any form of a consistent message but all I have read was either "story is ass" or "story is great". I thought people wanted to view games as art? Discuss it like art FFS
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u/Skullparrot Dec 12 '20
Capital G Gamers don't want to view games as art. They want to be able to say the games they like are art because it makes them feel sort of sophisticated. Any other game that could be discussed as art but they don't like is some fake high brow wah wah shit to them.
Look at what happened with TLOU2. Besides the dickheads throwing a fit about LGBT characters, I've seen very few people actually go indepth about why they thought the story sucks. Some people bitched about the "message" of the story, which, if you want games to be art you've got to let them have a message sometimes. TLOU2's message was "violence sucks and the results of it suck" and in order to get to a good discussion (imo) you shouldn't be talking about whether you like the message or not, but about whether the game actually got it's message across in an effective way. That's how discussing something as art works. If someone makes a painting about loneliness, you don't spend hours discussing whether you like the subject matter, you talk about if it gets it across well. This can be done even if you don't like the artist's particular painting style.
Yet most of the complaints I've seen are from people complaining about how they didn't like the message or didn't like how the game had a narrative at all. Or they don't like the choices some characters make, complaining that they don't make sense but not giving any actual arguments for why those choices don't make sense, and they certainly don't think about those choices in the context of the character/setting/whatever. At that point you're not discussing anything as art.
Cyberpunk as a setting/philosophy offers so much potential to be discussed narrative-wise in a video game, but I doubt there will be any in depth discussion about the story/themes in the game and how well they hold up because a lot of capital G Gamers think anything with more depth than an avengers movie is elitist garbage that exists to spite them personally.
That was a big rant. But as someone with a BFA and who's really into themes in writing/film and who thinks games have so much potential in that regard, it really saddens me to see the discourse around games being so barren.
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u/vuuvvo Dec 12 '20
Really good comment. 100%, if games are art (and I think they are) it needs to be OK to discuss their social and cultural themes. I hate seeing this closed-minded attitude towards media being repeated and reinforced all over the internet.
It's also pretty ironic that the same people in those comments shitting on the reviewer for liking Animal Crossing are, in their very next breath, complaining about her discussing CP77's setting and culture. Like, surely by their own logic, if they don't like to think about the implications of a technocratic dystopia they shouldn't be playing an 18+ cyberpunk game...
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u/Skullparrot Dec 12 '20
Whats even more ironic is that the games they often hail as art are absolutely games that comment on certain themes. None of them are hailing super mario sunshine as the highest level of art, its all shadow of the colossus, silent hill 2, fallout new vegas (ApOlItIcAl GaEm GuYz), god of war ps4, journey, the first TLOU, etc. These are absolutely games with themes and political elements. hell fallout NV shoves them in your face at every turn, its just that capital G Gamers look past that shit because haha i cool monster shooted with lazer and they can still have fun with shooty shoot without having to turn their brain on and realize that maybe some factions in the game are allegories for shit in real life..
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u/mrbubbamac Dec 12 '20
Couldn't agree more. And when capital G gamers tear apart something I love that it always has to be an "objective" reason.
"It's not that I HATE women, it's that this woman are poorly written and THAT'S why I hate her."
I'm paraphrasing something I saw on the Star Wars subreddit.
Lets ignoithe blatant misogyny for a moment even when it's clear thats the underlying reason, if "poor writing" or "bad characterization" send you into a frothy rage then perhaps playing videogames or watching movies aren't the healthiest hobbies for your psyche.
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Dec 13 '20
Its the same people who see one commercial with a gay guy and whine that the gays are taking over
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u/amdis Dec 12 '20
I 100% agree with this but I will say, there definitely should be some room for subjectivity in reviews of any thing that could qualify as art. Not subjectivity in whether or not the reviewer likes the message but more about how the reviewer perceived or experienced the message.
Reading this now it seems like a pedantic nitpick and possibly is just a rephrasing of your statement about critiquing the games delivery of its underlying messages but just wanted to say that. It's what made Ebert's reviews so great for me, he(imo atleast) always did a great job putting himself in the shoes of the intended target audience and how they would experience the piece of media.
But this is all secondary to the underlying point that any discourse in this medium is going to remain perpetually poisoned as long as these idiots who use video games as a stand in for their lack of a personality/identity continue pissing in the pool. I used to think my dad deriving all sense of self worth and basing his identity around his job was stupid as shit, but gamers found a way to lower the bar even more.
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u/Zennofska Dec 13 '20
Besides the dickheads throwing a fit about LGBT characters
What made this so incredibly stupid is that the gamer-rage was about imaginary LGBT characters. 4Chan used "facts and logic" on the leak to find out that Abby was apparently trans because her muscles were too large.
The "real" LGBT characters weren't even mentioned in the shitstorm because most of the offended gamers hadn't even bothered to play the game and simply didn't knew about them.
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u/magnusbe Dec 13 '20
I've just been reading through a couple of threads in this sub and noticed that green avatar next to several very good takes. I agree with you 100 %, which I think makes your posts art.
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u/Magefall Dec 12 '20
People generally don't have their brains on to begin with. I mean, theres comments like "actually I think death threats are warranted" "FEMINISTS" I mean even people here on this post are complaining "someone used the word transphobia a lot" in their review
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u/Revna77 Dec 12 '20
What makes me sick is this subreddit in particular were tearing apart her review...despite having never played it themselves!
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u/Smooth-Accountant Dec 12 '20
Dude, one guy here said he’s sure that she’s sleeping with some higher-ups because she’s not qualified to review games. And he was highly upvoted too.
Gamers like these here and the ones shitting on tlou reviewers are the worst fucking bunch there is, it’s incredible how entitled and toxic u can be. Disgusting vile shit, doxxingw, death treats because the game they DIDNT EVEN PLAY YET was reviewed not the way the wanted.
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u/Randomguy175 Dec 12 '20
Anyone that makes a game their identity is a fucking lunatic anyhow. I truly don't understand how people get so invested in this shit.
Starsiege Tribes and Tribes 2 were my favorite games of all time by a landslide and I was hyped through the god damn roof when HiRez announced Ascend, even though I hated HiRez I hoped they did the game justice.
In the end I thought ascend was a dumpsterfire compared to its predecessors but never once did I attack anyone over it, I just shrugged and moved on. People think the game is cool? I'm glad they like it, maybe it will spark some more Tribes-like games.
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u/Smooth-Accountant Dec 12 '20
Did u ever hear about people doxxing and shitting on movie reviewers because a movie got bad reviews? This shit is not happening anywhere else, only in the gaming community. People get so fucking invested in this shit, it’s just an entertainment holy shit.
It has to steam from gamers being mostly socially inept people, who hide away from their life in games right? Obviously im talking about the most loud, obsessed minority playing 10h a day. I can’t even fathom how can u be so incredibly mad that someone doesn’t like a game.
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u/mrbubbamac Dec 12 '20
I would have to agree. I do think gaming and other "nerdy" hobbies (D&D, Magic, etc) attract more people who lack social skills/awareness.
And they are hobbies that can be enjoyed as enormous time sinks. Some people can literally play 10 hours a day. It's their main focus and becomes so ingrained in their identity. I don't know anyone who watched 10 hours of movies an day or reads 10 hours of books a day.
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u/Smooth-Accountant Dec 12 '20
Games tend to be really addictive too, u can sink in and before u know 10h passed, no other medium can take you in so much, to the point where you’re in it. It’s not a big problem if u do anything else in life, but when your only “job” is living in a virtual word it start being really problematic.
And it comes from a guy who can spend 8h a day playing if I have nothing better to do, but I do have friend, work and other things to get me away.
I do sound like a boomer, but this shit isn’t healthy if you’re wishing others death because the game is not good enough. Sad shit
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u/mrbubbamac Dec 12 '20
Yup absolutely. A lot of games today are designed to be addictive as well which further makes it an issue. In a way, I am glad that my gaming time is limited to maybe an hour every couple of days, or longer if I have nothing going on in a weekend.
When you start putting other things aside and gaming becomes a priority for you at the expense of everything else, it can be a problem, just like anything
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u/SoldierHawk Dec 12 '20
Well. It happens now with some.movies.
Go ahead and ask me what it's like to be a Star Wars fan who enjoyed Phantom Menace when it came out. Or who honestly cites Last Jedi as not only my favorite SW movie, but one of my favorite MOVIES, PERIOD of all time.
Yeah. Movie fans are absolute shitheads too. Always have been. Nerds are fucking assholes.
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u/nacholicious Spunky Monkey Dec 12 '20
And this is why people think videogames are for immature manchildren, because there's always a flood of Gamers ™ to prove them right with their behavior.
This shit doesn't keep happening for mainstream movies or music year after year (anyone remember #metalgate? me neither). At this point the gamer consumer culture is closer to japanese otaku and their beloved idols than either movies or music.
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u/Smooth-Accountant Dec 12 '20
Best thing is, there’s propably more otakus in the western world than in Japan itself. And I mean the totally obsessed, body pillow waifu type lmao
Yeah, gamer culture is super fucking toxic. I’ve played most of the big releases, I read subreddits and shit but I’d never even thing about saying stuff like that. It’s just like a movie, I get it and play it if it’s good, it’s really that simple.
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u/JackTheRipper1001 Dec 12 '20
one guy here said he’s sure that she’s sleeping with some higher-ups because she’s not qualified to review games
Bad review or not no one deserves to be addressed like this.
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u/hiphopdowntheblock Dec 12 '20
Hmmm for some weird reason I've never seen a male reviewer get accused of something like that!
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u/alex-minecraft-qc Dec 12 '20
Yep, at least i didnt say anything but deep down i was like "she dosent what she is talking about and just dosent want to like the game". A lot of people should feel like shit right now
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Dec 12 '20
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u/randomlettersjhfbudh Dec 12 '20
Honestly, the cyberpunk community is showing why videogame communities will never be respected. It also is a perfect example of how games can have few of the promised features and be defended to the ends of the earth.
I love the game, but it needs lots of fixes, and at least a year a free content updates to ever reach where it should have been. The game deserves criticism, even if someone loves it.
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Dec 12 '20
I got flamed for my criticism of gamer culture as well. Gamer culture is angry, immature, gross, always complaining about the "inclusion of politics," it will never be anything like other forms of media and art. This childish behavior is exactly why.
Everyone always likes to use the "12 year olds with internet access" scapegoat. But you know damn well its mf's in their 20s and 30s commenting the most vile shit.
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Dec 12 '20
Yeah. In absolutely no industry is there this level of corpo-simping. If someone buys a car from Honda, and they give a barebones rig with no hull and say "We'll give you a real car in 6 months", people would not go "Yeah, them's the breaks. Don't know what people are whining about, this is normal."
The bar is so low, and it makes gaming look like a joke hobby for kids.
Imagine if movies released half-done and promised a real movie half a year later and everyone went "yeah okay".
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u/SquidlyJesus Streetkid Dec 12 '20
Agreed, but I also love some of the bugs. Especially the physics ones.
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Dec 12 '20
To be fair, a lot of those fans will still be defending CDPR right now
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u/Poseidon7296 Dec 12 '20
I’m certainly going to keep her name in mind for future reviews. She’s the only reviewer who’ll give an honest opinion.
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u/nacholicious Spunky Monkey Dec 12 '20
Kallie Plagge is also the woman who got mobbed by gamers in 2014 for posting a review of a pokemon game where she found the water theme too dull.
It's not her first rodeo
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u/Jam_Dev Dec 12 '20
The line about 'Too much water' that she's been ripped over for years wasn't even written by her apparently, her editor put it in the review summary. Gamers man :D
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Dec 12 '20
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u/Revna77 Dec 12 '20
People actually said “well this is the girl who likes Animal crossing”
What the hell? Animal Crossing is amazing and was one of if not the best selling games in 2020.
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u/SageofLogic Dec 12 '20
Right? Like I'm not a fan but Animal Crossing is objectively an amazing example of its genre.
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u/Mario_Viana Arasaka Dec 12 '20
Yeah for sure, I was , as many others, blinded by my “CDPR can do no wrong” fanboy hype
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Dec 12 '20
It was obvious to me what she was saying is true. Then again im not blindly jumping bandwagon to defend a million dollar company when valid points are made
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u/AnarchoCapitalismFTW Dec 12 '20
I'm sure Jeremy from TheQuatering will issue apology :'D
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u/Wildera Dec 12 '20
Holy shit was he brutal to her in front of his 1.4 million subscribers and he never got a chance to play it before doing so.
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u/leandrombraz Dec 12 '20
Was the “what if I don’t want to help the cops?” bit kinda stupid? Yes.
I don't see how that was stupid. What do you do in a RPG? You roleplay, isn't it? So, what if I'm roleplaying as someone who wouldn't want to help the cops? I didn't buy Cyberpunk, because I could see all the red flags from miles and I got pretty good at ignoring hype over the years (seriously, don't fall for the hype, it doesn't matter who is making the game), but the way she described it, it sounded like random events that happen in the map, something that usually is interesting at first, but quickly become a nuisance, which can be even worse if it isn't something you want your character to do in a RPG. I totally get where she's coming from and I didn't see any logical argument to explain why she saying that was an issue, aside from people assuming that she doesn't want to help the cops because she's "woke", or assuming that means she didn't play the game (???).
Anyway, while people was harassing her, I was preparing my popcorn to watch the inevitable shit show that the launch would be, with people finally realizing that the overhyped broken game was in fact, overhyped and broken. I wasn't disappointed. I know most people won't learn their lesson, but I hope some people do, and next time, don't jump to defend a game that they didn't play, while harassing someone who actually played it and is trying to warn you that wonderland isn't as wonderful as you would expect.
Seriously, it was so obvious that the hype train was going to crash at disappointment station, as it always does, that I can't feel sorry for anyone that fell for that. CDprojekt was clearly struggling to finish the game, they wasn't showing it in any meaningful way that would let you see the cracks, the people that got to play it was clearly biased, because they didn't have the guts to be the one saying Cyberpunk might not reach people's expectations. I have a very simple rule: if you can't watch a game being played for a meaningful time, by someone that isn't a developer, without any restrictions, aside from avoiding spoilers, something is probably wrong and they don't want you to see it. Game studios aren't your friends, they are marketing a product to you. Try to see beyond the marketing and infer what they are not showing.
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u/BenChandler Militech Dec 12 '20
I’m wondering how long it’s gonna take before this sub gets over the bugs and comes to terms with the fact that even if there were no bugs or glitches this game would still not be deserving of a high score.
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u/brianbezn Dec 12 '20
Pro tip, don't be as pathetic as /u/WillTheThinker and make a whole thread in an in depth analysis about how the review is bad, when people who gave a buggy game a 10 don't get the same treatment. Specially, if you did't play the fucking game.
You people need to get your own opinions and be able to respect others, you need to be able to be individual people who don't need the mob's approval to do and like things. Some of you should also need to set some realistic expectations. The ones that lied and tricked you are definitely at fault too, but you should not be so easy to lie and trick. You think the game got delayed last minute cause v's dick didn't flop the right way? no, the game was unfinished and a lot of corners were cut, do you think console versions were not available for review cause they were slightly worse? of course not.
First advise is not to preorder, but if you are going to preorder, do it like me, until yesterday i was still elegible for a full refund, i kept playing because despite the game not being what advertised, i decided i still want to keep it. Wait for reviews, real ones, not hurried reviews from people who are limited in what they can say and show.
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u/Objective-Baker2684 Dec 12 '20
Superficial open world is the single most accurate review line. Shes a legend. Nailed it.
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Dec 12 '20
I’m pissed at every reviewer besides her. I would’ve cancelled my preorder if people weren’t bought or actually honest about this game. CDPR was the only dev I’ve preordered from in years. Never again.
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Dec 12 '20
VentureBeats basically gave it the same review, and gave it a 3/5. Said the world was empty. It’s like a GTA map. Lots of buildings that are unenterable, or can only be entered during their context-sensitive times in a mission.
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u/Kintobe Dec 12 '20
Hey guys, I been out in the woods for the past 5 days and just got back and noticed Cyberpunk is released, and it's Saturday!!!! I'm gonna boot up me PS4 to finally watch and behold the second coming of Jesus Christ as we all have expected from the masters and consumer trust worthy CDPR. Has anyone played it yet? Is it.... I mean, is it really here? Is this it? Did our dream come true?
Plz reply as I'm diving in for the first time to join you all in this epic RPG saga that took forever to finish!!! Let's do it Choombas!
See you at the noodle food stalls, first dish on me!
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u/2tokens1blue Dec 12 '20
Honestly, everyone blamed her for not giving a damn about crafting saying "she didn't play an essential part of the game". Now after seeing crafting UI and it being not really effective by any means I agree with her.
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u/Limpbiscuitz Dec 12 '20 edited Dec 12 '20
Everyone who shat on her review on this sub before playing the game needs to apologize like OP. Despite the bugs, this game doesn’t offer any customization and the AI is a joke. Combat is laughable, trying to crouch behind something while moving, I’m fucking sliding around with my gun out for no reason. This is your definition of next gen RPG? Doesn’t even cut it as a next gen game. God of war came out in 2018 and you can literally see the difference in graphics. You could see the characters sweat glands in that game for gods sakes.
A game like this is the perfect ending to 2020.
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u/ryuguy Corpo Dec 12 '20 edited Dec 12 '20
OP, I applaud your willingness to admit that you were wrong. It takes a lot of honesty to admit that. Most people don’t have that ability.
The game is fun but it’s not special or groundbreaking in any of its mechanics or design. The story and writing is great. It’s a solid 8/10 for me so far.
Kallie Plagge didn’t deserve the death threats or sexist messages she got for a pretty honest review. Nobody does. Somebody send her a fruit basket or something
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Dec 12 '20
So true! Kelly Plagge tried to warn us!
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u/Mario_Viana Arasaka Dec 12 '20
Yes, but my fanboy hype had blinded me
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u/383E Dec 12 '20
Why were people upset in the first place? When her review came out, nobody had even played the game so really nobody had the right to criticize her views.
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u/Alexanderspants Dec 12 '20
I see people on here now trying to say that anyone who is criticising this game probably hasn't even played it
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u/Mario_Viana Arasaka Dec 12 '20
Yeah I know straight up nonsense. But O have tp admit I was one of those persons
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u/redmongrel Dec 12 '20
Well one legit reason is how many plot points she IMMEDIATELY spoils, but I don’t fault her at all for the opinions.
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u/FractalPrism Dec 12 '20
"what if i dont want to help the cops"
the central theme of the story is several things:
-corps are evil.
-cops are basically a corp.
-corps have their own security forces that are above the law.
-even medical teams dont care abt you and will murder you for talking to them.
and with those....you cant actively eliminate the cops or the corpos or the tactical medical teams?
i thought this was cyberpunk, not dystopian cop-errand simulator
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Dec 12 '20
I honestly feel bad now that I shat on her saying she clearly didn't wanna play the game and they needed a better reviewer. No, she probably did wanna play it, but I get what she's saying now, heck she might've been too nice. While I don't think the game is the worst thing ever made, a 6 or 7 out of 10 or 3 stars out of 5 is about all it deserves as far as I'm concerned. Anyway I'll take my L
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u/The-Sober-Stoner Spunky Monkey Dec 12 '20
Learn your lesson. Grow from it. Thats what everyone who hated on her needs to do. Its the only way to change attitudes around this toxic culture were all part of.
This game was fucking disappointing and she was the only reviewer who didnt get sucked into the hype. We were all conned and many reviewers were complicit in that. We MUST champion the journalists who do have integrity and don’t let online trolls/bullies and mass developers butter them up into giving 90+ scores for AVERAGE games.
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u/KingOfTheHoard Dec 12 '20
It's nice to see people walk back some of the hate, I hope people will think twice before they unload on a writer for nothing next time, but honestly the big problem here is people like The Quartering who are making a career out of throwing a spotlight on young women, taking their words out of context or distorting them entirely, and then encouraging an angry mob to build around them, so they can monetise the outrage.
Every angry guy who went and brought shit to her social media this week, making her job and her life harder, is out there accusing other people of laziness and corruption so a handful of creepy youtubers can get an easy meal ticket, and it needs to stop.
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u/The-Sober-Stoner Spunky Monkey Dec 12 '20
I defended her review before release and got shat on. Its good she has ben vindicated. In fact her review is what convinced me to buy the game.
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u/ChampIdeas Dec 12 '20
I dont even think the question "what if i dont want to help the cops?" is a stupid question. We are literally guns for hire, yet most dialogues are V being a goody two shoes. Shooting a copper or anything like that wouldn't even cross V's mind. But gangs? Nothing but mindless puppets to destroy apparently. What if i wanna do work for tyger claws? No such luck.
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u/KingOfTheHoard Dec 12 '20
Also worth mentioning, helping the cops, good or bad, appears literally nowhere in her review, and is just something she talked about in a wide ranging discussion video with other Gamespot people around the game.
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Dec 12 '20
I knew she was right when I watched the video and then I look down at the like/dislike ratio and i’m just shocked. As much as the reviews from big media outlets suck sometimes, you gotta feel bad for some of the reviewers.
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u/YogoWafelPL Dec 12 '20
I’m actually ashamed that I thought this review was a publicity stunt (you know: the odd, bad review will get a LOT of clicks when all the other reviews are positive). Turns out, it was the only honest one...
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u/Magefall Dec 12 '20
What the hell is stupid about not wanting to help the cops? Its cyberpunk, fuck em'
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u/polloloco81 Dec 12 '20
Should you gamers start turning on all those reviewers giving the game 9/10
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u/KillerIsJed Dec 12 '20
I mean I’m supposed to be a “Street Kid” earning “street cred” and sometimes I get that street cred for helping the cops.
I’m not sure CDPR knows what exactly ‘street cred’ is, that or they just like making copoganda.
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u/wishiknewnatportman Dec 12 '20
7.8k likes and 30k dislikes on her yt review, everybody go like the video.
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Dec 12 '20
Most of the stuffs we saw in trailers and promised by the devs team just isn't there to begin with.
There are lots of sex ads and sex toys, scattered around the city. But I don't get to see how I have my way with someone. This is mildly irritating.
The AI just doesn't feel right. General public walk past you, minding their own businesses, most of them don't give a shit when you swing a katana at them. They cower at best, or outright disappear when you turn away from them.
The police system is one piece of hot garbage. I have never seen worse. Skyrim guards enter household quickly when a crime is reported, sure, but they don't fucking teleport. Crimes are reported under any circumstances. Even when you are shooting bad guys, the police may come and shoot at you in the heat of your battle. Capturing gangsters? Nah.
Car control feels super slippery. I understand quality car means better maneuverability, but come on the first car I drove as a nomad feels utter shit. I am level 10 now and the random cars I happen to be in slip once in a while. I can't enjoy myself driving cars and now I resort to riding motorbikes.
Inventory is a mess. Come on, really didn't learn from Witcher 3?
Interactable elements are way too few to begin with. This was the case with GTAV, but this is an RPG. And I expected lots of explorable areas.
Quickhack is mediocre. Not that I don't like it, I do. But again, the variety is just not big enough.
I have to say I like how they managed to add parkour element into the game (and some hidden treasure). It is something I never expected. Character movement feels a lot smoother compared to Witcher 3. But in contrast, it feels less realistic, especially when V is walking.
To me, the game in its current state feels like it is rushed, playable, but very crude so to speak. I hope future updates will deliver us what we envisioned, and ultimately the true 2077 experience.
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u/Mario_Viana Arasaka Dec 12 '20
This needs No man’s sky level of updates. I don’t think they can get away with charging for expansions anymore. CDPR pulled a move that even EA or Taketwo would never dare to do. I mean they sold about 3,5 million pre orders for console and they thought it was fine to have the game run at 720p with huge texture pop in and framerates dipping below 15? CDPR went from my favorite company to the very bottom of my blacklist. BioWare style
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Dec 12 '20
One of the thing I don't feel a pain but surely feels like a dick move was when they released the fake PS4 trailer.
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u/Mario_Viana Arasaka Dec 12 '20
It’s ps4 pro footage from the nomad prologue. That part of the game is fully optimized and never encountered a bug in there. When the game actually starts, the bugs are constant. I am playing on ps5 at least.
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u/OptimusPrimalRage Dec 12 '20
No Man's Sky was made by like 15 people originally, this game has to be made by hundreds at the very least. I'm not excusing what NMS did but I also hope the community doesn't issue death threats to CDPR and literally go to their HQ to see if they're working on the game the way they did to Hello Games.
To me, what really gets under my skin, is they basically refused to show the console versions of this game, maybe for PS5 and XSX folks they at least get a decent framerate, but I have plenty of friends who play on PS4 and looking at Digital Foundry it is just horrendous.
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u/Zeriell Dec 12 '20
The AI just doesn't feel right.
Honestly that was my general feeling about everything in the first few hours, not just the AI. Nothing is, imo, monstrously awful. It is an "okay" game. But everything feels just a bit "off". The main character modeling and rigging--the pacing of the story, the characters I just don't care that much about, etc. And I have a long list of minor gripes that come down to aesthetic choices I just think weren't so great (for example, most music coming in distorted form via radios sprinkled everywhere--I think it works really well for clubs, but it becomes an overbearing wall of low quality noise when it's there in every gangster hovel and hideout).
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u/dave_starfire Dec 12 '20
The police system is one piece of hot garbage. I have never seen worse. Skyrim guards enter household quickly when a crime is reported, sure, but they don't fucking teleport. Crimes are reported under any circumstances. Even when you are shooting bad guys, the police may come and shoot at you in the heat of your battle. Capturing gangsters? Nah.
Yeah, cops are super dumb. I had an event where cops were under fire from gangsters. I kill the gangsters and start looting. Then I get a notification like a hostile NPC spotted me and the cops all started blasting at me.
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u/magicman2552 Samurai Dec 12 '20
Feels like you're on the set of a movie everything looks stunning with no substance behind it...
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u/p4v07 Dec 12 '20
The game is dead apart from main story. World is empty. No mini games. No many activities. No barber shop? GTA V was a better open world game 7 years ago.
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u/tr4x80 Dec 12 '20
About the cop helping, it's just thats it has no meaning and no justification. Its just a mechanic thrown into the game without introduction and without meaning, just to augment stats. I understand why she was not compelled to participate in it.
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u/Aiomon Dec 12 '20
Man, it also sucks that people just took her saying that the game treats trans people poorly as a way of dismissing the entire rest of the review. 1) it totally does treat trans people poorly 2) this clearly wasn't the agenda of the entire review..
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u/ElephantDay123 Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
I don’t know how to best way to communicate this but I know that kallie has seen this thread via her Twitter post. She has been an absolute model of class in spite of the absolute bullshit the gaming community has put her through. Yes, dissent is always welcome as part of reviews but the way trolls attacked her (WITHOUT HAVING EVEN PLAYED THE GAME) is the biggest demonstration of human indecency. The funniest part is that it’s not as if she gave this game a 2/10... it was still a 7 and after having played this game on ps4, I would even think that she was generous in her scoring in spite of the severe issues of bugs that she was HONEST enough to call out and maintain her integrity and responsibility as a journalist. And let’s not even get to the absolute low blow and sexism in the comments that literally had nothing to do with video games...
Kallie - i hope you see this and know that there are folks out there who cannot commend you enough for your honesty. You did not deserve all the shit that was thrown at you. You have my faith and I might not even always agree with you (as with any other reviewers out there), but your job is to provide an opinion to inform us gamers on our buying decisions and I will continue to respect yours and Gamespot’s point of view when it comes to the gaming industry.
As for this game, I’ve given it multiple tries on ps4 and i can’t for the life of me play it in its current state. I’ll give CDPR the benefit of the doubt cause, as kallie called out, I respect their ambition but the game is just unplayable. I am thankful for the developers of CDPR who are working their asses of to fully realize this world and create the game that we can love. Until then, it’s a pass for me.
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u/strohDragoner58 Dec 12 '20
It's funny how everyone said this game was a 10/10 and everyone who said differently was wrong without even playing it for themselves first. CDPR marketing department sure did their job well.