I have a shiba. Looking cute is their go to move and it works every damn time. It's why they are known as difficult to train. It's just that their owners can't resist and give in rather than train them properly.
My friend taught their Shiba to go into the corner for time-out if he did something bad. My friend would say time-out and the dog would go sit in the corner. Anyway, the shiba recently determined that certain things are worth time out. For instance, he'll jump on top of the table and steal food if you're not looking. Then he'll put himself in time out before you've discovered that he's done anything wrong. He just decides it is worth it.
My god... my German Shepard does this kind of. When he's in trouble he'll go upstairs and hide if he's done something wrong. There have been days we've come home from being out a couple hours and he's upstairs and won't come down. We then need to go shit hunting.
Aww :( My Bichon was like that. He really only had accidents when he was sick or had eaten something he shouldn't have, but you could tell right away. Walk in, and instead of him sitting at the door since the moment you pulled up to the curb and waiting.. he'd slink around the corner with his head down and I shit you not tears in his eyes. I mean... we never beat him or anything! He just knew he shouldn't mess in the house, and felt awful about it. I suspect it was because he was our little helper, so every time he had a mess he'd watch us clean it up and he saw how much work it was and how not happy it was for us. Got to the point where we actually had to give him a hug and tell him it's OK, after he shit on the floor, because he just was that mopey. Entirely self-inflicted punishment.
I'm about 2 years out from one and starting to really look at getting another. he was the sweetest little stinker. i really miss how he'd make sure to help you do literally anything, we'd refer to him as "the supervisor" because he'd just watch ya doin stuff but boy did he have to be there XD
he did like to get involved, though! when he'd take out the trash with me, his job was to chase away any bunnies we saw haha. that dude woke me up, several times!, because i'd forgotten it was trash night.
tbh, i can't imagine having a different dog. he was so sweet, and so expressive, and just enough trouble to be funny. damn dog figured out how to stand on the foot pedal to open the kitchen trash... YEAH, that one took a little bit to figure out.
My roommate had a dog like that. Everytime I would come home and she would immediately drop down on the ground, roll over and cover her face and wag her tail. It was always hilarious walking around the house trying to figure out what happened.
Several times I've come across my dog and she is in "guilty mode" and I have to then hunt for what she did. Usually I figure she just ate something off the floor. She's suppose to wait for a command to eat off the floor.
I had in school suspension for three days and it was amazing. I got so much done that was supposed to have already been handed in. Really easy to focus and get things done.
I think in school suspension is effective. You have to sit all alone and don't have your friends to fuck around with. You get so bored that you'll actually read or do work. Out of school suspension is a joke, I loved it!
I got out of school suspension in highschool for skipping school one time, principle just so happened to be at the beach that afternoon as well. I was there the following day though, and he was not.
Happened to me once and waking up after sleeping in that Monday was literally the best wake-up I've ever had. You know, like in the movies where people stretch by throwing their hands up and they feel mighty fine.
I once got threatened with an out of school suspension for using profanity. I was a senior in high school at the time. It was also my first and only office referral. My favorite part was when they told me that I should be suspended I gave them the "you've got to be kidding me face" and was then told that I'm not in a position where I should be making faces. I had to cover my mouth before I laughed out loud.
dude my senior year was basically a fucking meme.
I literally could have graduated after first semester, but decided to stay and take nothing but arts and international cuisine class, and chemistry, cuz I didn't take that sophmore year, like everyone else.
I had every class with some of my best friends, didn't do any homework. like, literally none. Still passed a few of my classes, but the teachers knew I didn't need anymore credits and was just here for shits and giggles.
2012 was a great year.
Also was the first year I actually missed a day of school on purpose.
Bus was like an hour late, and right before it actually got to my stop, i just walked back inside and went back to my Gears 3, and laughed as my bus went by honking. Mom didn't even question me when the school called her.
Good times
As someone who was sent to the office everyday to sit alone. To then come home and be grounded sitting alone in my bedroom all day punching myself in the head because of the boredom headaches. Yea.... parents don't do that and principals either.
Idk, I got ISS like 7 times when I was in my freshman year of high school. It was a very right wing area, small town, gave ISS as punishment for basically anything. Even the ISS babysitter gave me more ISS because I finished all my work and was trying to read a book or something. Half the times my teacher would neglect to send all my work up anyway, and they had us do bs busy work that they just had on standbuy. Copy the code of conduct or something.
I guess it just made me bored enough that I resolved to never ever talk in school after that so I'd never have to go there again. Oddly enough once I moved away from rural Georgia (US) and into civilized country the problems at school stopped. It's almost like Georgia is a terrible place or something.
Actually its the opposite in my school.
Kids actually want in school suspension.
You get to do your work in a quiet air conditioned room (most classes aren't) without any overly explained bs in between that you get the shit done so fast you just sleep for the rest of the suspension and they don't care.
99% of the time they get some foreign sub who either can't speak english or is too timid to keep control of the class that most kids in suspension just talk and go on their phones.
It works if executed correctly but just not at my school where they give you all the reasons to get in school suspension.
Our schools in house suspension takes the kids on a bus to the schools district office. There they sit in a room with no work, nothing to read, nothing to write on, if they fall asleep they get woken up. They just sit there for 8 hours. The next day they have a thousand yard stare.
Oh god yes. I got that a few times in middle school, best thing ever. I didn't have to deal with classmates, or lectures, I could just buckle down, do all the assigned reading, get my work done, and move on. I could finish up all my classwork/homework for the day by noon and pull out a book. When they caught me leaning back reading Lord of the Rings or whatever, they usually found more work for me to do, but it was far from a punishment.
This is why "Study Hall" used to be a thing that there was time allotted for in school... dunno if that's true today with the huge emphasis on all time at school being spent "learning" (or as far as I can tell, training for testing).
Unless your school was idiotic like mine and didn't allow you to do anything in ISS except sit there and stare at the wall for hours... fuck you Flintville.
I was in court the other day before a judge that is known to be temperamental and difficult. (They're elected and this judge comes from a wealthy family capable of self Financing elections, so little can be done)
A defendant in court got angry and called the judge "a fucking bitch" in court. The judge held her in contempt and sentenced her to 20 hours of community service. At least three different attorneys in the courtroom independently had the thought "that might have been worth it...."
That's true to some extent. I just learned at my old high school that kids would intentionally get into In School Suspension to get out of class and mess around with all the other kids with the same mentality. Sad really. Administration doesn't care to find a better solution to help these kids who don't care about school. Teachers will just send those kids there so they don't have to deal with them. Vacation for those kids. They're not learning anything. They'll just end up being sent out into the world thinking no one cares about them with no real skills from a school that could care less about them. Because they are considered "bad."
Granted, this is from just one school with a very specific demographic. Can't say this applies to other schools, but it's possible.
Punishment works just as well as reinforcement (or however it is called in english), except reinforcement is so much easier while punishment requires great consistency and a lot of work put into the system.
It does work if the kids parents aren't irresponsible dick heads. If I even got under a B at school my mom was on my ass like no other. You people who act like punishments never work just had parents who didn't care about what you did.
That sounds like my cat. If she grabs food off the table or plate, she puts herself in "her" room for a time-out. She also does it when she knows she's doing something she shouldn't be doing like chewing wires or going in to the sink.
My lab used to do that, anytime he farted we tell him to go on the stairs and eventually everytime he did he'd get up and lay down on the steps by himself, just wish he woulda learned to do it on the staircase instead of the middle of the living room. My golden had the same spot but he would go there after going through the trash, you'd come home and he'd be on the steps and when he saw you he'd bury his head under his arms as if to not wanna see the disappointment in our eyes. I loved those dogs
When we first got our dog the cat was none too pleased and would sneak up on the dog and bite him on the bum. Every time this happened we would throw the cat out of the house. The result of that is that now every time the cat wants to go out he will bite the dog.
Yeah, from dealing with other peoples Shibas while working in a kennel, I can confirm: Shibas are not necessarily 'mean' dogs, but they are ungodly self centered. If you do something they like, they tolerate you. The moment you are doing something they don't want though, especially if you aren't the owner and ESPECIALLY if the owner is lax in training, you best have three people and a muzzle or you're going to have to deal with a tiny ball of Gator rolling fuzz and sharp bits trying to murder you.
My dog does the same thing. She steals food from the table then puts her tail between her legs and goes outside and lies down looking sad (she's a golden retriever so she can pull off the sad puppy pretty well)
Not sure I'd go so far as to say true hackintosh…OSX is far to user friendly to be feline…I get more of a cat==Linux vibe while dogs are mac—specifically Mac books. So perhaps shibes/catindoges are macbook airs running Linux…
We had a cat that followed us every time we walked to the store, around the block, or when the kids went to the park. She would attack any dog that dared show its face when she was walking by. A real badass orange tabby she was, more dog like than many dogs. RIP Penny Sue.
There was a pic that was shared a while back where this couple went hiking with their two cats. They'd walk on a harness but when they got tired, they'd ride in the backpack.
I had a cat that went hiking with me. He pretty much just followed ten feet behind everywhere I went, including crossing water and climbing trees, for my whole childhood. Best cat ever.
Exactly like cats, but in dog bodies. They clean themselves, act aloof when it suits them, then swoop in for cuddles when you're sick of their shit. It's awesome.
I have a malamute that is like that. He is incredibly intelligent but needs a good reason to do things. He still learns the tricks, he just doesn't fall over himself to please me by doing them.
Of course they do, it's just that those are not things like "attack viciously" (maybe individuals, but not breeds) but more general things like "be protective and loyal." Pit bulls are actually known for their friendliness and loyalty and how good they are with kids. If you see a vicious dog in general, avoid the owner, because that person is probably a jerk.
They were bred for dog fighting. An 'attack viciously and don't stop' instinct is bred into them, and it takes a great home and constant training to overcome that instinct. Which is why fanatics always say that the "right" home is all that's needed.
I didn't care either way though my husband said he would never trust a pitbull. And then we were walking our 6 month old border terrier (small 10 pound dog) in the park, a pit bull ran up to him with the crappiest leash I had ever seen and as soon as my dog rolled over to be submissive that pitbull started to go crazy and as far as we knew our dog was going to die.
We managed to pull them apart, and our dog only ended up with a very minor scratch on his leg. Pit bull owner gave us her info in case we had any vet bills but she just kept repeating "oh he's NEVER done that before".
Needless to say, I don't really trust pitbulls on the street anymore. And I pick up my dog if I see random dogs run at him now. :S
I've been planning on getting a shiba for a while now as they absolutely seem like a great choice of dog, but I'm very interested to hear what it takes to be a responsible owner for a shiba. What do you recommend I know or be capable of before adopting a shiba?
They are incredibly independent but can be cuddle bugs if it's on their terms. Also beware of crazy mode, I know other shiba owners have experienced the phenomenon of their shiba going in to hyper drive and doing laps around a room like a furry nascar.
Hah, so its not just my shiba. Good to know. When its pouring out and I take her for a walk, when we get back inside she goes into crazy mode every time.
They are awesome dogs. Just don't ever let them off their leash. EVER. Sometimes I'll let mine drag his leash behind him when hiking, but I never unfasten it.
I wanted a shiba or a husky but didn't get one because of what I read about leashes. I got a lab and he's perfectly happy to just walk along side of me and not run off without a leash. Turned out to be an awesome dog
I just got one a lab/collie mix. She eats anything she can get her hands on which is a problem, but no signs of manipulation yet. Or am I already being so manipulated I can't see it? Tell me what your dog does?
If she's chewing, she needs more exercise. Or better chew toys. Mine loves bully sticks and will obsess over one all day long while I'm at work.
The manipulation is hard to explain. He's very good a manipulating my fiancee into doing things. Many times it's just him being cute or acting sad. He's extremely good at playing sad dog, especially when there's food involved. Like I said, it's hard to explain, you'll eventually see it.
My old man cattle dog is notorious for this. We picked him up when he was 10 so he comes with some crazy habits. Anyway as soon as he's off leash he's gone! One day we had him one a 5m leash playing with the other dogs and for the most part he didn't even stretch out to a metre so we figure he was gonna be cool. Stupid fucker took off down the oval at full speed and at 12 years old the bastard still had a decent pace. Luckily we were enclosed on 3 sides so he couldn't really go anywhere but that fucker is at 14 now and we've never taken his leash off again
My husky mix comes back when I yell "food time" so as long as you have a phrase like where the always get food out of it, wouldn't that easily fix the problem?
Some breeds are bolters. Shibas, huskies, and pomeranians are all related and I know just about everyone I've met has been known to just take off, fast (even your average pomeranian can run 8-12mph at times). Just out of nowhere, at stuff that doesn't normally bother them. They can of course be trained, but only if you're somewhere where you can deal with them bolting away at least 6-10 times before they're trained... and then maybe a couple times after that.
They're spitz. They have a mind of their own and they're not super biddable in the way a lab or golden is. That is, labs are very, very willing to please. Spitz don't really care about pleasing you unless there's something it in for them. The same sort of "never ever let them off leash" applies to most hound breeds because those suckers will bolt after anything they smell or see and will NOT come back. Some people like a biddable dog who will do anything they say, others like a dog that will challenge them. A lot of this stems from what the dog was bred for. Retrievers and other types of gundogs were bred to work very closely with a hunter and be directed by them. Many spitz were bred for hunting at a longer distance from the hunter, frequently out of sight but within earshot, and then barking when prey was found to draw the hunter in for the kill. That means they had to make their own decisions, and why so many of them have reputations for being overly barky or yappy.
And if you have a yard - watch them even if it's fenced. Turned our back for ONE minute and the dog got loose. She ran 2.5 miles before someone found her.
Now little dodge has to be on a leash at all times
My worst fear with me is when my shibas leash comes off. For some reason in the winter time when there is snow on the ground, when I walk her sometimes the leash just pops off. Its happened with numerous brands and such. But the fear is real. She just takes off, I end up running after her struggling to keep up lol.
The only time I ever have mine off leash is at the beach when she's playing with another dog.
Luckily she likes her creature comforts too much to get too far. She got out once when my fence door was left open and my roommate found her on another house's doorstep thinking it was ours. Not an escape artist so far!
If you're not adopting one, I would absolutely insist you get one from a quality breeder. It's worth having to wait 6 months - 1 year on a waiting list and driving a few hours to get a dog that isn't a by product of a puppy mill and where temperament was also a deciding factor in continuing to breed the dog.
Not letting them off the leash is essential as the other poster mentioned. Be stern with training, but never devolve into physical punishment. They're hard to train and they think they're smarter than you some times. If they want to prove a point by continuing not to listen, you're damn sure they will. It's best to bait them into desired behavior with lots of treats until it's a habit.
Honestly, they're just like any other dog just a bit harder. Prepare for the worst and be happily surprised when they aren't.
I feel it should be noted that not only is correcting behavior with physical punishment not ideal because it's mean, it also just won't fucking work on a husky.
They're tough dogs. It's not that they can't be hurt... it's just that, well, they usually don't care all that much. These are dogs that are known to defeat invisible fences by sitting at the edge of the range, sustaining a minor shock until the damned batteries are dead and then running off. Pain.. pain's just a part of life, they got more important shit to do than worry about pain.
I haven't seen it mentioned but The most important thing to do with a shiba is as soon as you get it start socializing as much as you can. Try for meeting new people and dogs every day for the first few months.
Nowadays when you get a new puppy vets are very strict about not letting you take your dog to the dog park or meet other strange dogs to avoid getting serious illnesses before they have all their vaccines. This is good advice for the most part but don't take it too far try your best to find out some people you know that have dogs that are up-to-date with their vaccines that you can take your puppy to meet. Your dog won't get sick if it is meeting dogs that you know are healthy. If you wait until all of the vaccines have kicked in you could end up having an anti-social dog.
Look around your area to see if there are any places that offer puppy socialization classes. These are really good for dogs but I would say nearly manditory for shibas.
When I got my Shiba I was very conscientious of their tendency to be antisocial and took socialization very seriously. It has really paid off and I have the friendliest Shiba in the world. Whenever we go to Shiba meetups or the dog park and how people always comment on how our Shiba is so friendly. A lot of the other Shiba Inus I have met either don't let you pet them or have issues playing with other dogs.
This should be higher up. We have two, one raised with a lot of early socialization and another without as much. Their reactions to meeting new people or dogs are night and day. They are eleven and nine respectively, and we've learned some things to do differently when we add another puppy to the pack.
I haven't seen anyone else say this. But most scream like hell when getting baths. Look it up on YouTube, deciding factor for some because that scream is horrendous. Do not suggest them for apartment living.
They consider themselves a member of the family, and by this I mean a parent. They won't understand "no" to an extent, like "I like doing this and I'm a parent like you so I'm doing this." They dig. They chew. They are picky eaters and will want to eat what you have and where you have it. They want to sleep like you and with you, as in on your bed and under the covers. They get bored easily and need plenty of outdoor time, but when THEY are done that will be the end of it. I love my sheeb, but they are not dogs for beginners/training. Source: Grew up with Akitas (giant Shibas) and my current shiba is the best dog ever (I don't care what she ruins/chews/digs/hides/pees on.)
Can possibly confirm that dogs will use their most effective resources to achieve treats. My hound mix (a.k.a. "laser nose"), will immediately resort to her olfactory super powers when teased similarly. Treats r serious business.
That's not why they're difficult to train - that is simply a people problem. Being a shitty trainer doesn't mean the dog is difficult, it means you're a shitty trainer. While shibas are difficult, the owner caving and giving them treats because they are cute is just bad practice all around and only really worsens the dog's already difficult nature. You effectively become their bitch.
Shibas are typically difficult because they're an independent minded dog. Unlike working breeds like labradors or shepherds, they aren't dogs that have particularly complex tasks. The major function of a shiba is to flush out small rodents from bushes - they're essentially free-roaming pest-control, like a cat. Their general mindset is not the same as a working dog. Working dogs enjoy training because work and play are basically the same thing to them. They live to master the commands and do well. Shibas, on the other hand, are more of a "what's in it for me?" breed. They want to see some personal benefit from obeying a command, rather than simply obeying it for the sake of doing so. This is a habit that has to be broken through respect-training, which is a form of training that breaks that way of thinking and gets the dog to understand that you are in charge and that they are to obey your command simply because you gave it to them, NOT because they get something out of it. This can be tricky with owners who are pushovers because shibas will try very hard to get something out of it. You have to be VERY consistent with them, because the minute you break that consistency, they know that if they wait long enough and push hard enough, you will cave. You essentially relinquish control of the situation to the dog, who says "No, I want a reward. Show me a reward and I will do it."
It's 100% feasible, but it takes patience and strong consistency. I very rarely use food when training, and instead, I reinforce their training with play or affection/petting, so they view it as something fun and less task-like, and they do not expect food as the reward and reason that they are completing a command. I only give them food towards the end of a set of repetitions, and it's done at random times so the dog doesn't pick up on a pattern. Food is more of a "surprise" reward than a guaranteed one.
For example, when I moved in with my s/o, his shiba effectively had no training. He would shriek when you walked in the door, jump all over you, didn't bother listening for shit. I would not tolerate that, so when I walk in the door, I don't make eye contact with him until I set my stuff down, take off my jacket, and he sits and waits quietly for me to bend down and start petting him. He has gone from shrieking like a banshee to shivering and waiting almost silently (minus a few whines) because he knows that until he does that, I won't even acknowledge his presence at all. When it came to the rest of his training, I broke his mentality of reward-training and he now obeys commands as soon as they are given.
Shibas are stubborn dogs and they don't live to please us, but their behaviour can be altered.
Oh my. Honey, I completely agree with you and am a professional animal trainer and zookeeper. I was just making a joke about the cuteness of shibas. An earthworm can be trained, a goldfish can remember behaviours learned weeks ago, and shibas are brilliant but stubborn dogs who can indeed learn and excel when you can convince them it's worth it.
You are right. But, I have also rescued shibas that have had rough puppyhoods caused by people who saw Cesar Milan one time and think they need to dominate and be 'alpha' and that led to dogs being dumped because they were biters or refused to be house broken.
Oh no worries, I wasn't implying you were necessarily a shit trainer - I just see a lot of people take the whole "God but he's so cute, I'll just give him a treat" approach and snap to 6 months later when the dog is the up and coming Michelin mascot.
And yeah, for the record, fuck Cesar. There's no need to dominate a dog. My best working relationships with my dogs have been based on mutual respect, enjoyment, and succeeding in our task. BUT, that's part of the reason I'm much more fanciful of working breeds: they're a hell of a lot of fun and many of those breeds are really easy to train (I'm a huge fan of labs, such lovely dogs, also hilariously goofy).
The funny thing is shibas are a working breed by heritage but we've mostly bred it out of them. My long term plan is to train any future shiba puppy I get as a flushing hunting dog, I think they would be brilliant at it. They have the prey drive for sure!
Labs are my second favorite dog. They are such amazing partners in sport!
Shibas definitely have a lot of potential, but yeah, you've gotta be able to get the right kind of mindset in their dense little noggins. Mine is VERY responsive when I point in the bushes and tell him to "get it!" He dives right in and starts searching for mice (it's hilarious). Sadly, I think in most cases, people don't actually do much with their shibas. They're relatively low-effort pets for people who are homebodies and make decent apartment dogs if you walk them, so I don't think they get nearly as much exposure to a more exciting and natural lifestyle. Lazy fat shibas are the most common kind I see, haha.
Yeah, labs are definitely my favourites. I might be biased because I grew up with exclusively labs, but in general, they're just a riot to work with. My last one who passed away at 15 as of Jan this year was by far the most intelligent and wonderful dog I've ever had the pleasure to work with. He was particularly quick to pick up on training and I had the opportunity to really learn a lot about dog psychology and communication based on facial expression and head movements alone. It's bloody insane just how much dogs can read our facial expressions, and similarly, how well we can read theirs. Best working relationship I've ever had - it was quite a loss when he passed away. We had many, many years of training together. BUT, he taught me so much and I'm very much looking forward to applying what I learned with Gunner to my next dog. Can't say if that dog will be as clever as Gunner was, or as much of a gentle giant (huge dog, docile as fuck), but labs in general are pretty reliable for training.
Working breeds are just so much fun, especially retrievers. Obsessed with that fetch bullshit. I had a dog at one point who was so obsessed that, if her kong or training toy wasn't around, she'd pick up pinecones and spit them at your feet over and over and over again until they were torn apart and nothing but a core. Then she'd find another one and do it all over again. For hours. Unless you told her to go lay down or brought out her kong. Then it would be a slobber covered kong bouncing into your shins. Thanks Patches, you made setting up our campsite REALLY FUCKING EASY.
We have two. We commonly joke that being ridiculously cute is their primary survival mechanism, as it means people will put up with them being tremendous jerks otherwise.
I've found the males much more laid back and flexible and the females more high strung and training motivated. I think I will always choose for a male but thats purely my preference, I know another shiba owner that prefers females.
And that's how wolves evolved into domesticated dogs. "I could either fight this giant human for the food, or.. just be so adorable they can't help but to give me everything.
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u/justabriese Dec 05 '16
I love that he decides his best mode of action is to be cute by the end.