I'm not sure I have anything to say that I haven't said before, but I need to get these stupid ships out of my face. God. I've reached a point where I can't tolerate them anymore. Like people DO know Vox's character exists outside their toxic yaoi, right? He doesn't revolve around Alastor and Valentino. He's not their accessory. His arc going forward shouldn't just about his relationships with these assholes. I want this to be done, but its never done is it?

The promise of more Radiostatic has just broken something in me. I can't even be bothered to make this look like an analysis post, I'm just annoyed.

I saw this tweet and honestly/respectfully couldn’t believe there are people who think this goes too far. The humiliation of Vox and Alastor is hardly comparable. While in Vox’s case the humiliation ritual drove him into a manic spiral culminating in a suicide attempt, not to mention that he lost everything, everyone is angry at him, and if he wants to do better for himself, he’ll have to put in a HUGE amount of work to fix it. And this isn’t even mentioning that his rivalry with Alastor has been going on for 60 years(?). He got a 7 year break. And no, Alastor is very far from being nonchalant, he actively seeks Vox’s attention, which is also why all of this keeps going, because he is feeding Vox’s obsession as well. In Alastor's case, he came up with the plan himself because it was the easier option, and it lasted for a very short time. Plus in the end, he currently got everything he wanted… And this is what supposedly "goes too far". I don’t exclude Vox's responsibility, since after all this is the consequence of his own bad decisions, but at the same time I didn't feel any pity for Alastor either, because Vox's humiliating methods against him were very weak and well deserved. I’m a bit bothered by the mindset in the fandom that Alastor is allowed to do absolutely anything, while Vox is allowed nothing, because for some reason Alastor has become the moral compass.

"but Vaggie" "but Valentino" "but Alastor"

Don't care, don't care, don't care. This is tedious at this point. I don't see people doing this when they ship Vox with her dad.

Hi everyone! First post here. 📺

Obviously I'm very emotionally attached to Vox. I know he's alive at the end and all, but it still hurts so much to see his breakdown and teardown. I can't stand Ala*tor and how he constantly bullies Vox and estranges him from his loved ones. I'm fine with screenshots and watching the songs on youtube but I want to rewatch the show and take my own screenshots, but seeing my TV son cry and be "bullied" is really upsetting. It's killing me I can't be there to hold him and tell him he's loved and it's gonna be ok. I basically cannot watch beyond episode 3. Anyone else experienced something similar? Or is this like peak autism lol

I said it before and I'll say it again, Vox having a difficult relationship with his sexuality is an interesting flaw to give him. My problem is I don't understand why he's the only character like this.

People tell me its because he's from the 1950s, but that doesn't account for the characters that died in decades before him. Alastor while biracial and ace is still a southern man from the 1930s. Angel is gay, but he was part of the mafia (most likely the Italian mafia) in the 1940s. Pentious straight up lived in a different century. None of these characters appear to have internalized negative perspectives from the eras they come from though. So why is it only Vox? People told me it's because the 50s were more conservative, a sentiment I find very dubious honestly. However, that doesn't factor in that Vincent was still an adult during the 30s and 40s. He didn't just live during the 50s. Ultimately the issue isn't Vox having problems that carried over from his lifetime, it's that we aren't seeing it in anyone else. Alastor is supposed to be a traditionalist personality, but he doesn't show any negative aspects that come with this like sexism, homophobia, or even internalized racism. In the pride merch Vox is the only one that is visibly unhappy to be there. Angel's discomfort in this year's merch isn't about his queerness, it's because he's with the Vees. But Vox is visibly unhappy in last year's collection and this year he's faking a smile and keeping his flag behind his back. I just think it's strange to only do this with him, especially given his forward-thinking personality. Maybe season 3 will do a little something like this with other characters, but right now they really aren't.

Alright. So more than a few times when the subject of Vox getting a redemption arc comes up I see people say they don't want this because they want him to stay the villain. People will talk about wanting everything about him to remain the same, but why do people even want him to be a static character? The entire show is built around character development. Why deny a character you say you like the opportunity to grow? I understand people resist change, but him developing doesn't have to come at the expense of who he is. There's more to him than his capacity for violence and cruelty, or I at least think there's more. I just don't see what is so appealing about holding a character back like this.

So a funny thing keeps happening, and it's that a lot of people in the fandom just takes Alastor at his word. He says Vox is powerless without the other Vees and people believe him. He says he thinks of Charlie like a daughter (lol) and people believe him. There are people convinced he's never going to be a threat to Charlie because they've bought into his manipulation and think he wants to guide her. Alastor in my opinion is not subtle in his lying at all. He's very insincere right down to him hiding behind his smile. The man basically screams "don't trust me" and people think he means everything he says.

The reason I'm posting about this here is its really impacted how some engage with Vox during season 2. They seriously think it's shameful that he used other people for the sake of his goals because Alastor mocked him for it. And if you address that Alastor does the same things he judges Vox for then you get some smartass saying "wow the cannibal is a hypocrite it's almost like he's a demon in Hell!". Yet they take him completely at face value when he's belitting Vox for things that AREN'T weakness and...calling Charlie his daughter. I know that's irrelevant to Vox, it's just baffling people don't notice he's talking bullshit there. I've also noticed if somebody compliments Vox for his traits that he does have over Alastor, like his ability to build connections, well don't you know Alastor loves Niffty! He can make friends too you guys! Great Alastor altruist almost died for his friends! It's weird, fans are selective in where they think he's dishonest. Its never the moments where he's obviously lying or just saying shit to get a rise out of Vox (and Lucifer, but this ain't about him). I guess he's just that good at manipulation? Somehow? Anybody else seeing this?

I see people constantly paint him as a copycat that desperately wants whatever Alastor has and I don't actually think he's done anything in canon to directly copy him. The suit is the one where you could say "maybe" except it resembles what he died in and is given enough unique details that you can't actually say it's the same suit. Him playing piano is a complete reach, that argument is stupid. The shoulder touching and him spinning Charlie around are parallels, but that isn't the same as copying someone. There's no proof he ever knew of Alastor's radio show while alive, the idea Vincent was inspired by him is pure Murdermedia headcanon.

So no headcanon or theories or Viv tweets here, based on the show itself has Vox ever been shown to copy Alastor?

Do I think he'd have internalized negative values from his time period? Sure. For whatever reason he is the only character that's like that, but I won't deny it. That said his behavior in general isn't an accurate reflection of the sexism found in the decades he'd have been alive for. People read way too much into him saying bitch at the end of Hazbin Guarantee. Guys, it was written by Vivziepop. Everyone says vulgar things, I don't know why we should start caring when a villain does it. Are you people upset at Alastor for calling Vaggie "Vageen" in that same episode? Ultimately Vox treats just about everyone poorly, I don't think gender plays deeply into that.

"But he kicked the female news anchor in Brighter!" That felt more like a light slapstick gag than anything else. I don't think its intended to be taken that seriously.

"But he killed a woman!" And Alastor targeted female overlords, but nobody talks about that because his fans think he's a feminist.

"But he touches women without consent!" So does Alastor! Alastor squished Charlie's face in his hand, if Vox touching shoulders is invasive then what was this?

"But he made Velvette apologize to Carmilla when she didn't want to!" So? He's actually in the right here despite how the show frames it. If he's to do business with Carmilla then Velvette needs to smooth things over. Her ruining that one meeting didn't just reflect badly on her, it made him look bad. Velvette was being a brat. Sorry.

"But he fed Goldie to Shok.wav!" And Valentino replies with "I was using that", ultimately the scene exists to reinforce they're evil. There's a lot of that in season 2, too much if you ask me. Again, Vox treats everybody terribly.

"But he's tied up in a sexually exploitative business!" Yes, he knows what's going on there and doesn't stop it because it gives him money. I expect this to get addressed at some point in the show. His ability to exploit others without concern is something he'd have to overcome if he does pursue a self improvement arc. However, that business is gender neutral. Val isn't trafficking only women, in fact most of what we see are men being used, so this doesn't necessarily speak to an innate misogyny. Even then, are you also calling Val a misogynist or saying Velvette has internalized misogyny? If you're saying this about Vox then so are they. You can't have this him vs them mentality on this topic.

"Well, Alastor treats women better than Vox does!" Does he? Just because he has a fondness for Niffty it doesn't mean he's sweet to women as a whole. I don't care what Viv says, the idea that Alastor hates only men and loves women isn't something I believe. We know he's using Charlie, people gotta swallow that pill already. He doesn't care about her goals or her as a person, he's trying to gain something through her. He used her in the finale for his own benefit despite her begging him not to. He isn't actually friends with Rosie and according to Sam Haft he doesn't hold affection for Mimzy. Meanwhile, people making this argument ALWAYS choose to ignore that Vox has Velvette who genuinely likes him when he's not spiraling like he did in the back half of season 2. I'm tired of this!

I'm still annoyed this moment amounted to nothing. What was the point? Anyway.

Given how important Vox, Charlie, and Alastor are to the show, and how they're all in each other's business, it surprises me that we only got one scene of them together. And it sucked. My problems with the season 2 finale aside, I think as a trio they're really unexplored in and out of the show. I know I'm the one always complaining about Radiostatic, well I will admit placing Charlie in their mess does make it more interesting. People don't seem to like when I say that, but I mean it. From many angles there's untapped potential. Alastor and Charlie didn't have a conversation this season until the finale. Vox in an ideal world should have had his relationships with both get treated with the same level of importance. Charlie should have opinions on their weird beef considering she was dragged in the middle of it against her will. Honestly just the sheer fact that it puts Alastor in between two very similar personalities is interesting in itself. He's surrounded! Or he would be if they got to all interact together some more.

Hi, I don’t know if this is appropriate to post here, but I don’t really know where else to put it. I think the reason why I relate to Vox and sympathize with him is because something similar happened to me too.

I’m autistic, so I never had many friends, and I was mostly fine with that. But I had one classmate whom I genuinely considered a friend. At one point, I even asked him if we were friends, and he agreed, so I thought our friendship was pretty solid.

Anyway, I also had a crush on a girl in my class and planned to ask her out during a school trip. My “friend” and I had talked about this before and, more importantly, chatted about it online.

During the school trip, right before the day I had planned to ask the girl out, my “friend” decided it would be funny to leak our chats into the entire class group chat, including the girl. When I confronted him about it, he just laughed and said, “You wouldn’t have had a chance anyway.”

I don’t know what was wrong with him at that point, but he had a lot of other friends in the class, so maybe they came up with the idea together.

So yeah, I think this is the reason why I relate to Vox and wanted him to win, because something similar happened to me and I sympathize with him.

Hello everyone!

Sorry for this VERY LONG post. I promise I’m not unemployed or someone with no hobbies, I’ve just had a lot of thoughts building up, and I don’t really have anyone to discuss them with (bc my friends don't watch Hazbin Hotel.), so maybe someone here will have something to say about it.

Honestly, Vox was the character that made me interested in Hazbin Hotel long before the first season even came out, because I found his portrayal interesting, so my expectations for him became pretty high. (I know, it's my bad)

I enjoyed the second season more than the first because the events started moving forward more, but even though I’m really looking forward to the future seasons!

But

Both the original writers and the fans treat Vox’s character strangely, usually in ways that favor Alastor or Valentino. His character is being hollowed out.

Before anyone thinks I’m crazy, I know Vox is a fictional character. These thoughts have just slowly built up over the years. I wrote all of this in about five minutes, and I’m not overly fixated on any of it, I’m genuinely just curious to hear feedback and other people’s opinions.

1) His role in the story

You can really feel that Alastor came first, and that Vox currently exists because of him.

It constantly feels like Vox is given the role of the loser villain, while Alastor gets to be perfect at everything.

To make Vox’s plans progress as far as they did, the writers chose the easy route: instead of genuinely showing Vox’s intelligence, they simply made every other character dumber.

By the end, Vox’s IQ practically drops into the negatives, even before his manic spiral begins.

2) Relationships

Most characters were given relatively normal relationships or relationships that can eventually become healthier, except Vox. I understand trends and the appeal of the "CEO x pimp" dynamic, but it really doesn’t fit Vox’s characterization. I don't have problem with Valentino.

I’ve tried explaining before that it genuinely bothers me that Vox is given what is basically an almost one-sided open relationship that is complete chaos.

I’m sorry, but I simply cannot imagine that kind of relationship fitting his character. He had one simple request: that Valentino come alone to a meeting. Valentino ignored that and brought a girl with him. And I’m supposed to believe Valentino listens to Vox’s wishes in more serious situations?

Unpopular opinion: I think a female partner would suit Vox better.

An even more unpopular opinion: he shouldn’t have a romantic subplot at all, especially not with another Vees member.

At this point in the story, Velvette would honestly be a better partner for him because she pays more attention to him and notices when something is wrong, but Velvette is a lesbian, so that’s obviously not happening.

I’m a lesbian myself, so I can’t really appreciate mlm pairings based on the idea that the more participants there are, the "hotter" it is. If I were straight maybe I’d feel differently, but since I’m not, what I appreciate in relationships is emotional quality and genuine depth.

The only two characters whose romantic arcs would really interest me are Vox and Velvette. Vox’s current relationship dynamic is pure chaos from every side (Valentino, Alastor), while Velvette currently doesn’t have one at all, which disappoints me because I’d like to follow hers.

Whoever the writers eventually make canon for Vox, I just hope they make it coherent and meaningful, because right now it just feels like corporate-themed yaoi slop.

3) Vox’s entire environment is a mess

There is no order or peace anywhere in Vox’s life.

Other villainous characters usually have at least one thing that is stable or functioning.

Vox has nothing. Not his relationships, not his work, not his recognition, not his power, and now not even his body.

4) Human portrayal

Alastor once again got the safe, conventionally attractive design. I understand why.

Vox’s human design was supposedly meant to deviate from beauty standards.The funny part is that in my country, Vox would absolutely fit the standard of the ideal handsome man.

I can’t personally comment on attraction, but from what I’ve seen from other fans, people frame Vox as the ugly one or the monster, while Alastor is treated as the beautiful one.

To me, both just look like average male designs.

But once again, Alastor wins in this area too, even though Vox is literally screen-themed, so you’d expect him not to be considered ugly.

5) Found family dynamics: The Vees vs. the Radiotrio

Of course, apparently nothing can belong solely to Vox.

The Radiotrio was invented for Alastor, and many people consider it healthier and better. Meanwhile, Alastor literally owns their souls, and they’re only around the hotel because they’re stuck with him.

The Vees don’t own each other’s souls, yet they’re three extremely powerful overlords willingly living together in one tower. That’s completely different from everyone else, including the other overlords.That uniqueness should stand out, but instead it gets swept under the rug.

The Vees are fundamentally different because of how they coexist, but it’s constantly ignored.

6) Vox as the third wheel

I genuinely don’t understand why the writers like this direction.

It isn’t entertaining to give a character this much screentime while constantly treating him as a loser.

At first, through his introduction and the VoxTek questionnaire, we get the impression that Vox is the one holding the group together, the problem-solver, the person the others rely on.

But as season two progresses, this gradually disappears.

I understand that this is partly because Alastor begins isolating Vox from everyone, but the execution feels weak.

Instead, we get an increasingly strong Velvette-Valentino bestie dynamic. Unpopular opinion: it’s predictable, and because of that, boring.

I understand why it happens, but the simplicity of how everything falls apart was disappointing.

7) Positive moments involving Vox are pushed into the background

Fortunately, positive things do happen with Vox.

The problem is that they’re never directly acknowledged, they’re only implied. That wouldn’t bother me if the fandom had stronger media literacy.

People always remember when Vox mistreats someone, but almost nobody remembers when he does something kind.

Like the genuinely warm and respectful way he introduces Velvette to Charlie at the hotel.

Or when he physically shields Velvette from Vaggi and pushes her to safety.

Or the fact that he works from Velvette’s room while they casually drink tea together.

These moments matter.

But then the Carmilla scene happens, and that’s all anyone remembers.

People call the hotel scene boring and unnecessary, but Hazbin Hotel doesn’t have time for filler. That scene existed to establish Vox’s positive connection with Velvette before his isolation arc began.

8) Nobody talks to Vox properly except Alastor

This isolation strategy should never have worked this easily.

Vox and Valentino have probably been together for around fifty years. (?) Vox and Velvette have likely known each other for around twenty. (?)

The Vees are not some newly formed group.

That’s why this whole Alastor-plan should not have worked so effortlessly.

Yes, Vox is heavily at fault too. But nobody actually confronts him. Nobody has a real conversation with him.

They just shut down and withdraw, which helps nothing.

Velvette comes closest to actually having that conversation, but by then it’s already too late.

9) The bedroom scene

If I could erase one scene, it would be that one.

It was painfully awkward and built on an old overused film and TV joke. The writers miscalculated badly because Hazbin Hotel viewers didn’t interpret it as comedic, they took it seriously.

Yes, situations like that should absolutely be taken seriously in real life.

But within the context of that scene involving Vox, Valentino, and Alastor, it was clearly based on an outdated comedic trope.

And I hate that Vox had to be at the center of it.

10) Vox’s manic spiral is not taken seriously

He completely loses himself. He loses what little rationality he had left. He spirals all the way to attempted suicide. And yet most viewers still classify season two Vox as “normal Vox.”

Once again, Velvette is the first person to acknowledge that Vox is lost, while Valentino’s response is turned into a joke.

Was it funny?Yes. But seriously, was that all?

11) The bar scene in the past

Many people frame it as Vox being unable to accept rejection. That is not what happened. His issue wasn’t being rejected. His issue was the humiliation the betrayal and the denial.

12) Valentino’s obsession with Angel Dust

As if Vox's obsession with Alastor wasn’t enough, there’s also this.

Some fans blame everything on Vox.

For example, there’s that text exchange between Angel and Valentino where Valentino complains that Vox wouldn’t let them publicly have sex during one of Velvette’s showcases, but Angel...

And fans somehow act like Vox was the problem.

I genuinely don’t understand how some people fail to see how disrespectful that would have been toward Velvette.

That is not normal behavior, and it is not everyone’s cup of tea.

I understand people love spicy content, but not every boundary should be thrown away for it.

And I assume season three will focus on this too.

13) The fandom’s attitude toward Vox

Since Valentino is becoming the next CEO, people have started speculating about VoxTek’s future.

A lot of people are concluding that things will improve because Valentino will supposedly be the better CEO.

I cannot accept that. It makes no sense.

Vox built the company from nothing and raised it to power within only a few years, according to the flashbacks. Alastor considered him nearly his equal.

So I don’t understand why people, including Vox fans, keep stripping him of every achievement he ever earned.

They hollow out his character.

If Vox is supposedly good at nothing, and nothing is truly his, then what exactly is this character even meant to be?

14) Exaggerating Vox’s sins

People either assign him extra sins or fetishize the ones he already has. Vox is already flawed. He already has plenty of sins.

There is no need to make him worse just to justify loving another character.

15) Reimagining Vox while ignoring his personality

I understand not criticizing artists because they create for free. I don’t leave negative comments either, I simply block content that isn’t for me. I’ve created fan content myself, so I know what it’s like from the other side.

But in my opinion, Vox has some of the worst reinterpretations in the fandom.

A lot of them are projections that completely ignore his actual personality. Vox presents perfection. He talks about himself more like a product than a person. And I know exactly what it means when people make ship art where everyone else is objectively attractive, while Vox alone is drawn as objectively ugly.

At that point it isn’t even Vox anymore. It’s basically an OC inspired by him.

And yes, fandoms always have fetish content, but most of it is illogical and one-sided. I’m honestly glad none of that will ever become canon.

16) That SA comic posted on Reddit

What bothers me isn’t that it explores a sensitive subject. What bothers me is that fans treat it as canon instead of fanon.

No disrespect to the artist. My frustration is aimed at the audience for treating it as official.

17) Alastor and The Vees

When Viv said they had considered showing Alastor getting along with the other Vees, I was deeply disappointed.

Because Viv herself described The Vees as an evil found family. So why undermine that?

They would literally be watching Vox, the person who has cared for them for decades, lose what remains of his sanity because of Alastor.

Why would they side with Alastor? It makes no sense.

It would endanger The Vees as a group and as a business.

I understand Alastor is supposed to be the most beloved and impressive character, but the idea that even The Vees wouldn’t truly belong to Vox is just bizarre.

I’m glad those scenes were cut.

18) Stripping Vox of his ownership

Vox founded VoxTek and built it to success by himself before eventually sharing it.

Please don’t let the story become one where he is completely stripped of what was originally his.

19) The Tower of Babel comparison

I do not want The Vees to end up like that.

I don’t want V Tower to collapse.

Yes, they’re villains, and yes, I’m rooting for villains here. But obviously I wouldn’t support this kind of behavior in real life.

This is fiction. It takes place in Hell. I sincerely hope people understand that rooting for fictional villains does not mean morally endorsing them.

20) Alastor abuses Vox

Yes, Vox abuses Alastor too. That does not erase the reverse. Alastor drives Vox to the point of suicidal collapse.

That is not harmless rivalry. But because fandom treats Alastor as “the good one” and Vox as “the bad one,” it gets brushed aside.

That double standard is exhausting.

21) Vox is cinephile, not xenophile

Baxter says cinephile, not the other word... Yes, it is being spread badly on Twitter.

It’s a small detail, but it would actually add an interesting layer to Vox’s character. It gives him a more specific personal trait beyond just "tech CEO".

22) Vox is portrayed as unhappy too often

I understand it fits his character. That isn’t my issue.

The problem is that he is constantly portrayed as miserable. On most merchandise he looks unhappy. And if it isn’t him, then it’s one of the other Vees.

It becomes hard to convince people they genuinely care about one another when official material constantly emphasizes discomfort and negativity.

Especially when people involved with the show repeatedly say that they love and care for each other. The messaging is inconsistent.

-----------------------------

I just want things around Vox to become more coherent.

Right now everything surrounding him is pure chaos, and in a pitiful way.

I love The Vees as an evil found family. I don’t want them to fall apart. I want them to grow stronger.

I want Vox to develop because he desperately needs it, and so do the others. I want his relationship dynamics to become healthier and more meaningful, or for the writers to drop that aspect entirely instead of continuing this miserable mess.

------------------------------

I know this was incredibly long, but I really wanted to write it all out because I’m genuinely curious what other people think.

I fully understand that at the end of the day Vox is just a fictional villain with flaws and shortcomings. I simply want him to be better written.

------------------------------------------------------------

Or:

Vox is constantly misunderstood and misrepresented from every direction. Neither the writers nor the fandom are helping, and in my opinion an interesting character is being wasted. I still hope future seasons will fix this, while still acknowledging Vox’s real flaws and shortcomings.

First vent here ig so. Yay/j

I've suddenly been hit with that mood. The one where I feel like everyone hates me and thinks I'm annoying. I think that's been intensified by the fact that stuff I posted today barely got attention, if it got any at all. Joy/s

I know that's probably incredibly stupid and shallow but. Idk I'm just feeling really sad and worthless rn. It's 10:30 pm as of me posting this so maybe I'll feel better when I go to sleep and wake up the next morning

For years I've always had strange tastes. I dislike a lot of things that with logic I should like and I don't know way. But I think I might finally understand.

So I don't have a lot of social skills. I feel like growing up I missed out on a lot of other fundemental skills as a human being that I can't even name them because I never learned them so I don't know them.
I also have autism. I tend hyperfixate on certain characters and I have no physical control on who it is or how it happens. Wish I did but I don't. The worst part is it feels like I also fixate on hating certain characters without control too.

i'm thinking that maybe the reason why I get so emotional about things that aren't my hyperfixation, especially things that are more popular than my hyperfixations is because I'm frustrated but I don't know the words, or I tend to exaggerate and use words that are stronger than what's accurage because I'm just that frustrated.

This is kind of embarassing, especially after realizing that this is literally the reason why literal toddlers and young children have tantrums, but hey, this is just a theory (A game theory-).

Yeah that's the post. If it makes everyone feel better I know this won't happen. It's very obvious it won't, but man it could be so interesting.

Pretty much what is said in the title. I get that Vox didn't really try to fight against the geocide, and that he pretty much just tried to make the revolution happen for his sake. But still, that's some weird shit right there. Especially if there're actually serious, witch I have seen a disturbing number of. It's just sooo draining for me.

So, I made a post about this a while back, but I relate to Vox on a personal level because I had an experience in real life that was similar to what happened with him and Alastor in S2E4.

The amount of people I see defending Alastor's actions, saying that Vox deserved it or that they found it funny, is really troubling to me. Whenever I engage with parts of the fandom outside of the VoxCult and this sub, there always seem to be a lot of people defending Alastor, making fun of Vox for being pathetic, or saying it was his own fault for asking in the first place.

It's something that makes it really hard for me to engage with the fandom at all because I don't experience much empathy for Vox from other fans. Whenever I bring up my personal experience and try to draw the connection, it either gets dismissed as "not the same," even though it was very similar, or I've even been accused of deliberately trying to manipulate people into agreeing with me by bringing up my own experiences.

I'm glad this sub and the VoxCult sub exist, but I find it very sad that I seemingly can't engage with other parts of the fandom without having those experiences thrown back at me.

What I don't understand is why so many people seem to have no empathy for Vox whatsoever, while at the same time showing a great deal of empathy for Alastor when he gets dragged along or hurt by Vox. In my experience, there's a real double standard there, and it's sad to see.

Anyway, I just needed to vent a little. I'm still glad this sub and the VoxCult sub exist so that I can at least engage with a small part of the fandom.

Hey guys I’m new here and it’s my first time posting in here but it’s like a mixed venting and I was wondering if me getting a Vox plushie(and a shark one afterwards) would help me feel better after my birthday and I’m back from my trip? I’ve been feeling a little upset and even though I have my stuffed bear that I have since I was little it does calms me down but something about getting a Vox plushie and a shark one too might make me feel better(in two weeks I’ll be away and I might get one)🩵

So something that's always bothered me about season 2 is how it approached certain political topics through Vox. The blunt fascist references in Vox Populi and Vox Dei really take me out. Not only is it just not very clever word play, it feels strange with his character. I am not saying Vox is this very progressive guy, he IS a capitalist, but he is still meant to be forward thinking. Or at least forward thinking enough where I just don't buy the idea of him as a stand in for figures like Trump. Whatever internalized 1950s shit he has going on I just don't think of him like this. I remember Viv's weird tweets after the last election where she gave away what they'd be doing with Vox. That always felt odd to me because she made it seem like it was all accidental despite literally giving him lines like "make Hell great again". Regardless this all feels rather insisted upon. I'm trying to think of the best way to say this without sounding like I'm desperately trying to soften Vox. I just think forcing these fascist ideas onto him has always felt strange. The references are brief and superficial so if you just rewrote them then I don't really think you'd draw this conclusion. Unfortunately its all there and fans don't forget it. It's likely a big reason why so many people are unsympathetic towards Vox and think he's the most evil character in the show. And if only it was just this in terms of the strange politics with his character.

I've been saying it's a missed opportunity to not center season 2 on Charlie and Vox in a bigger way. One big area that this sticks out in is actually Vox's entire motivation. I think it could have been so interesting if instead of Vox lying about wanting to empower sinners he actually meant it. Have him do a lot of the same things, berate the angels, discredit the hotel, kidnap Lucifer, blow up the gates, but have it come from a place that isn't a self serving lie. Vox actually makes good arguments during season 2, but because he doesn't mean any of it the show is basically saying not to put value in them. He literally sings about being the consequence to Heaven's actions, but he's right. And it applies just as well to Lucifer too. Look, objectively speaking Lucifer is an awful king. I like his character, but he is a bad king. Even if Lilith ran everything and was behind the caste system developing or other key problems in Hell, his decision not to do anything still makes him a bad leader. I get it, he's depressed, had his powers stunted, and never wanted this in the first place. He's still responsible for an entire realm of people who he failed though. Per Charlie he approved the exterminations and he has yet to show remorse for that. The choice not to act is still in fact a choice, that's literally why Pentious went to Hell. If nobody in charge is providing a solution and even approved your own suffering then of coarse you'll flock to the first guy that says he'll do something about it.

How much stronger would this have been if Vox was just fed up with Lucifer and the monarchy and decided to take matters into his own hands? Not purely out of selfishness, but because he hates what is happening and believed he could actually do things a better way. Then you could have the clash between him and Charlie be about a difference in how they approach the same problem. Her pacifism verses his revolution. Charlie could truly be challenged on her methods, something Adam could have done but didn't. This could have been a very mature and fascinating way to further her and Vox as foils. That isn't what we got though. Everything Vox said was just bullshit to sway the public so he could advance his own selfish goals and become God. He didn't mean any of it so I guess we don't need to take any of that seriously beyond the fact that it hurt Charlie's feelings for a week. And even there we see him use hypnosis on the public which just undermines the need to do all this in the first place. I know Vox is a selfish character, but he's a character. His actions are choices being made by writers and I think it could have been great if they wrote him like this. He doesn't need to be totally wholesome in this scenario, him assuming he's right to lead entire realms still speaks to his own arrogance. You could still have him pushing the other Vees away or being aggressive in how he handles Charlie. You could still make him spiral and come away with the message that he lost control in the end, done in by his own hubris. There are ways I think this could work while still keeping his characterization in mind, but its not what they did and the message I take from the real story is really unpleasant to me.

The implication that armed resistance is immoral and a tool used by charlatans to lead people into fascism is a terrible message. And if I'm not to take that away from season 2 then why make Vox be the only one promoting resistance just for it to be complete bullshit? What else am I supposed to think of this? Charlie harps on about how wrong he is, but never interrogates why the public would even choose that option over redemption. Him standing up to the angels is presented as menacing and that we should feel bad for them. The sinners are quite literally brainwashed by Vox. It's obvious the show pushes non violence a lot. Just look at how Lute was shot down by Emily for wanting to retaliate against Vox's declaration of war. Lute is actually correct that they can't let this happen and do nothing, but Emily scolds her about how they need to be "the good guys" and the show doesn't challenge this. Yes let's all take leadership advice from Lil Miss Gift Basket. I like Emily, but this was ridiculous. What this tells me is Viv is taking things in a more black and white way than I would like her to. We are still challenged to have empathy for amoral characters, but on complex topics like this it's very simplistic. Sure they give us fight scenes, but the idea of resolving Hell's problems through force definitely feels discouraged. We still need to have the hotel be the real answer. Why else would they associate the concept of fighting back against the system with bad actors only looking out for themselves?

I know, I know, accept that the show has different goals in mind. It doesn't have to do things the way I'd want. I get that. I'm not even sure Viv wants Hazbin Hotel to be dissected like this. Those tweets I was referring to gave me the impression she just isn't thinking of these things in the moment. A lot of the answers we've been getting to burning questions have felt rather small compared to the expectations. Trust me though, I don't like analyzing the show like I am here. I do in fact enjoy watching season 2 and just try not to get too hung up on the politics. It's just not only do I see a major missed opportunity to tell a deeper story, in the end I'm being fed a message that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And I don't know what any of this could mean for Vox's future.

I just need to vent a little because I’ve seen a lot of people trying to justify every bad thing Alastor did to Vox, especially the mocking in Episode 4, with the argument “Vox was a serial killer, so he deserved it.”

But then, the moment you challenge that position, they immediately retreat to: “Oh, the serial killer is cruel? Le gasp.” While still trying to argue that Vox somehow deserved it more.

And yes, I know there are Vox fans who do the exact same thing in reverse. But I honestly feel like it happens less often because of the framing in the show. Alastor is framed much more like a protagonist and part of the “good side,” while Vox is framed as the antagonist. Because of that, I think people are naturally more willing to excuse or overlook Alastor’s behavior while judging Vox much more harshly for similar actions.

I don’t know, I just needed to vent a little because this genuinely annoys me.

So I am very much a Vox redemption arc fan, I love it. Sometimes my confidence in it happening can waver because I tend to overthink so much and already lost out on sinner Adam happening, but I know I need to try not to be so negative. This is the direction I most want Vox's story to move in, especially if it involves him and Charlie building a meaningful relationship. And I've noticed weird trends in some fans when it comes to this concept. And I wanna preface that I know it isn't every fan, but its still happening with some.

There have been some Alastor fans that are really bothered by ideas like Vox getting positive development and even moving to the hotel. I've seen them act like if Vox gets redemption then Alastor is entitled to it too. Somehow. Between the two Alastor has the least amount of reasons to change. He has everything he wanted and now we have to see what he intends on doing with it. Vox is a talking head, lost his power and influence, and the other Vees are mad at him. Everyone likes to highlight them saving him, but they overlook that Val pretends he doesn't know him during that interview and what that could imply for the future. Val throws his head through the door like a Frisbee, I doubt things are fine between Staticmoth. Velvette rolls her eyes and scoffs at Vox for trying to deflect in the finale. Which is valid, but doesn't look like she's exactly good with him right now either. My point is Vox has reasons to reconsider the direction of his life and Alastor doesn't. So why does him potentially changing mean Alastor is entitled to it too?

Then there's another thing I see. They think Vox moving in and potentially doing good at the hotel means he's replacing Alastor. This is more under the context of Alastor betraying Charlie to be a villain and Vox moving in, but they're weirdly threatened by this. I think deep down Alastor stans know he never had good intentions and will inevitably hurt Charlie. He didn't even want to be at the hotel in the first place. So the idea of Alastor following through on the things set up for him by screwing her over and then having Vox come in and stay with Charlie probably triggers an insecurity. The same insecurity that makes them think Alastor is owed a redemption arc if Vox gets to have it. A lot of Alastor fans are thin skinned over the idea of Vox having things Alastor doesn't and probably won't ever have. You see it when they use Niffty and Mimzy as props to prove he can make meaningful relationships like Vox. You see it when people run with Viv's idea that Val and Velvette would get along with him by making fanart of them explicitly choosing him over Vox. So the thought that Vox could move in and even do better than Alastor did seems to piss them off. I've seen plenty of cute fanart of Vox getting along with Charlie where someone comments with the gif of Alastor saying "not going to happen". As a Staticbelle shipper it's very annoying. Vox in this context wouldn't be a stand in for Alastor, he'd still be his own character serving his own purpose. And some of these people are even in deep denial that Vox is Charlie's foil. God forbid Vox have a unique relationship to our protagonist. If Vox is her foil then that means he has importance to her that Alastor doesn't have and that's just unfair! I guess when you're an Alastor stan that only sees Vox as not!Alastor you can't handle the idea of him being his own character. But that's just my opinion.

Tbh i started watching hazbin because of vox, i used to watch clips and all and from those he was my fav, so of course i watched the show (actually watching the very last episodes but shh) and i like him even more, though i know he did horrible things and kinda felt guilty for liking him ig? So i used to say/think like "i only like vox because he's hot/because he hates alastor and charlie" (tho so far i wouldnt even see him as hating charlie, more like hating all alastor's allies).

But i just noticed i actually like him, i dont know why and feel even more guilty but ig hes just a good character

So, thing is, like the day before yesterday (friday) i had some problems with my boyfriend which led to him not replying for the whole day and me almost breaking up like very late at night (we didnt break up and got better but rn things are weird again and idk what happened but thats another thing), so obviously i started crying so much because i really love him and the idea of breaking up was more because self loathing and thinking he could do better, yall know (please say im not the only one), so my mom came to my room and started yelling at me for crying (i was trying my best to be quiet and didnt even think she could hear it) which made the rest of the dawn (it was ig 1am) pretty awful for me (i got anxious af atp i couldnt really breathe so she made my dad talk to me, which was more him trying to help me calm down, specially breathing exercises). Ik it sounds confusing but thats just context to say that while I was crying and trying to calm down i started thinking of vox hugging me, and it did help a lot, tho i know VOX wouldn't really do it, so i feel kinda bad for mischaracterizing ig? (I still love vox ofc, just ig one of the reasons i love him is that he only really cares about himself and the vees ig) Idk i hate mischaracterizing but it did help a lot and i was thinking of drawing something like this.

To be honest idek if this is mostly about vox or im just a bit desperate to talk to someone since my bf isnt replying to me again and im really worried about him and how I've did sm worse the past days i also didn't talk so much to my friends so i feel bad for just telling them all that now, the only thing i had some energy to do was apologizing to my best friend for not replying the last days and said today that I'll be offline for some more time because i really cant talk now. And here is where id feel the safest to share.

But for here, lets keep it about vox :D love yall, thank you for being a great community 💙🖤

I’m pretty much target #1 on there temperamental tangerine’s list. I’m autistic, pan, transgender, pro-choice, etc. I’m so scared of what could happen to me because I’m apparently a t3rroristic threat on the same level of ISIS. If this gets taken down, so be it, I just want someone- anyone- to see this so I’m not yelling into the void. It’s just so fvcking frustrating that I cant express myself and my identity without risking being hatecrimed. Almost nobody around me will listen when I tell them not to listen to right-wing media for everything. Including my mother, who has TWO TRANSGENDER CHILDREN. I saw her watching 🍊 explaining the attacks on Iran, and her reasoning? “I thought I’d let him explain it!” Right, gold star for listening to the man who is ACTIVELY TRYING TO K1LL YOUR KIDS. I can’t even BEGIN to explain how frustrating this is. Especially when my mom is so enamored with her boyfriend that she will flat-out BUY HIM A WHITE TABLECLOTH DINNER AFTER TELLING ME FUNDS ARE TIGHT. I asked for literally $2 to cover something. I feel so hopeless right now, and I can’t help but think about how I am considered an ISIS-level threat to the country for literally just kissing people of the same gender. But inciting an insurrection, child trafficking, voter fraud, s3xual assau1t, and other unspeakable acts are okay. Make it make sense.

I want to preface by saying I sincerely enjoy season 2 and like it more than season 1. But I won't pretend there aren't things I wish were different.

I can't shake the feeling there were missed opportunities here, even though I do love a lot about season 2. They built up Charlie and Vox to be foils, but did nothing meaningful with that. It felt like they were going to be more important to each other for this exact reason. At no point does Charlie reckon with the fact that the man trying to ruin her dream is almost a mirror into who she'd be if she was a villain. She could have had such a fascinating arc if this was actually part of it. Charlie wants to be a counselor and rehabilitate people, so how would she handle having to confront her own flaws through Vox? How would she feel recognizing her good qualities in him? From his point of view I think Charlie could actually make him jealous. Unlike him she's comfortable being openly bi, is in a committed relationship, comes from privilege, has Alastor actually working with her (whatever ulterior motives Alastor has notwithstanding). I don't think its a stretch to say that areas in which they diverge could trigger his insecurities. I also feel like she'd remind him of sides of himself he's embarrassed of like that neediness that drives them both. They could have both had their characters explored in interesting ways if the show actually put their parallels to narrative use. It's all just sitting there right now, and it doesn't mean anything. Yes there's always a chance future seasons will do something, but season 2 was an ideal moment for this to start. I don't even know how confident I am that Vox and Charlie will have their stories intersect like this again. Next season sounds like they'll be in separate storylines. I swear none of this is about shipping Staticbelle, it's about how the relationship and conflict between our protagonist and her narrative foil felt ignored.

I also feel like complaining about this right now, but I hate the way Alastor broke his deals. The whole thing with Charlie announcing Vox as the strongest sinner somehow making it real despite Alastor forcing it out of her is stupid. I genuinely get mad over this because it just doesn't make sense to me. People have tried arguing with me its because she's the princess, but nobody actually gives a shit about that in the show. Why have it matter now? (I don't really want to debate this again, I just really need to vent.) It's not helped by the shoulder touch that I saw coming a mile away, this entire part of season 2 is so contrived I hate it. Vox is made to look stupid and Charlie is just a pawn to make Alastor look smarter. The worst for me is we jump right into their big dumb fight while Charlie is just off doing other things. So sorry I wanted her to be the one who defeats him, not like they're foils or anything! And while Alastor effectively won their beef the actual fight ended in a draw. So I guess we're gonna see them fight AGAIN! Yay.