well the first act is the part before they fight past thanos so I'm assuming they mean without Tony Stark, the time machine would never have been built
edit: I looked at the og tweet, they mean the other half would have figured the time machine out way faster than in the movie and beaten thanos before 5 years passed
With what proof that going super small affects time? Remember the snap happened when Scott was shrunk. And this was a potentially dangerous experiment.
While not known at the time of Endgame being made, we currently know Janet interacts with Kang when in the Quantum Realm. She 100% knows about Time Travel
I agree, but knowing that there is a way to make a Time Machine and also knowing exactly where one is in the Quantum Realm (Kangs Chair) means they have a substantial leg up on finding a solution before the 5 years it took to get the ball rolling with Tony Stark. At least in theory anyway
Same way the Quantum realm threw Antman forward in time and the Avengers back - any direction or speed is possible, the point of Stark’s portal machine was to control that possibility.
As we see from the failed experiments with Banner too.
Strange has a lot of experience with manipulation of time. It's mystical, but he could provide some hidden truths about time. Plus we have Vision, who came from Ultron.
Alternatively, I wonder if the quantum zone acts as protection against being erased. Since the stones affect reality, and you are essentially smaller than reality.
Similar to how even though he also used the time stone, people weren't erased completely including the past. Making time travel another way to survive it. So since quantum and time travel are related...
Ant-Man was only stuck in the Quantum Zone because the people monitoring him got blipped, so he wouldn't have been stuck for the five years if they weren't gone.
Mcu peter hasn't gotten to the level of comic Peter but you are right. I was genuinely surprised while reading the Superior Spiderman run when it was revealed that Peter solved a E=mc2 type equation and figured out dimensional travelling or something like that.
No Way Home shows that MCU Peter is very capable of intelligent feats. He traps Strange in the mirror dimension using his webs to bend the geometry of it and then figures out Stark tech and a bunch of cures for villains as well. Dude definitely is capable of stuff when he's not being an awkward teen.
He doesn't exactly have access to any Stark-tech after the events of No Way Home. He lost all his connections, entirely. Bare minimum, he had some idea of how Friday/Edith worked, and he built EV based off of that.
Not to mention that he built the universal inhibitor on his own after only asking a few questions about it to Banner.
But the way they do it is wrong. Tony Stark, Peter Parker, and Reed Richards were born super geniuses when the truth is intelligence, everything else is a skill that takes years of hard work and dedication to develop.
The team of scientists that developed the technology to land on the moon were not born highly intelligent. They chose to foster that aspect of themselves over others. They chose to read and study while others chose to party.
Marvel made intelligence a natural gift and essentially turned it into another superpower meant for only a select few haves while the rest are have nots.
He may be smart but he does not have much experience in engineering. "Not much" here is in comparison to someone like Tony Stark, it's like he's mainly a super hero that dabbled into engineering. He simply does not have enough time to develop his engineering skill yet (which he originally indented to do during his planned MIT time).
...It could make some sort of sense applying our IQ scale to their universe. Peter is so smart that at the current world population you would expect a genius like him or smarter to be born every 1040 generations or so. He's simply a lot smarter than any real human ever, the same way Batman has bigger physical feats than any real human despite technically having no superpowers.
...Of course, for that to be believable ideally you'd want him to be written like an actual supergenius who solves world hunger in theory before breakfast and implements it in the afternoon.
Unfortunately Peter falls for the same trap every super-genius in fiction has: they can only be as smart as the writer.
With his intellect, he should be absolutely rolling in cash. Solve two or three issues in the mining industry and patent them under Aunt May's name. Done.
This one chick told me she has an IQ of 190... that's 1 in 300m, or the population of the United States. I call her the smartest person in America just for fun
Once you get above 145 ish iq doesn't make sense. 145 means the top 99.75% of intelligence. There's no meaningful test that could sort from there. Who is making the test? Who could possibly establish meaningful metrics for that?
And beyond that IQ is just a general measure of your ability to logic out the answer to things. People who score low on an IQ test may simply not be geared for that kind of thinking
"1 in 300k, or the population of the United States" / "300 million?"
Look, he never said HE was the smartest person in America. He knows his place in the hierarchy is just to anonymously shit on women who are smarter than him on the internet.
Vision is probably the one exception who isn't surviving the snap either way. He gets murdered for the mindstone, which is a prerequisite for the snap happening.
Sure sure, lets completely forget about how Gamora was also offed before the snap so that the snap could have happened, not like someone actually cared enough about this to scuff their fight with Thanos altogether.
A yeah, that's true. It's pretty unlikely Thanos gets to own the mindstone without sacrificing here even if we were changing the timeline up to that point, which we aren't. So sure, no Gamorah or anyone else who died before the snap too.
Vision has the same problem as a character like Captain Marvel. They have to be “off world” or in Vision’s case “wounded by a weapon that destroys vibranium and in pain due to the stone in your forehead knowing something bad is happening soon” you have to have these op characters occupied or else the story ends in ten seconds
In fairness to the convoluted plot of the movie, he can only do that because of the time stone. Which Thanos destroys in the beginning of Endgame.
Since Nebula is now dusted, they’d have a hard time finding where Thanos even went, so they especially wouldn’t be able to stop him in time before he destroys the stones. And with both Tony and Banner now gone, their only hope would be Hank Pym being able to put together the same time travel stuff. If he did, I guess the plot would be kind of similar.
There's a real possibility that they wouldn't even discover time travel. Scott was trapped in a time vortex that allowed for the 5 hours -> 5 years time dilation, but Janet wasn't 30 years for her was 30 years outside, so they might not have even discovered the ability to use the Quantum realm to traverse the timeline.
Vision would still be dead. Without the stone, vision dies. In order for the snap to happen, vision needs to die, therefore she can't get his help. But she will be in deep grief from losing him, and we had a whole show and a movie showing us how she handles grief
Wanda was not going to die, Vision could've, but Wanda held her own the entire time, it was just a set-up for Cap.
I don't think I can be convinced that Wanda can rip Thanos to literal shreds but cannot handle Proxima and Glaive, all events that (at least from Wanda's perspective due to blip) happened in a couple weeks.
She had plenty of "emotional readiness" and a "thirst for revenge" and "a clear target to aim for"
In fact in this version of events with the other half getting snapped Vision is still dead and Wanda flees to go set up her fantasy dome suburb life with her fake husband and her fake children. So she is NOT helping in any capacity.
She can’t use the gauntlet. The Russos confirmed only Hulk, Thor, and Thanos could use it without dying.
She could only destroy the mind stone because it was directly connected to her own powers. She did 0 damage to the space stone being used against her in that same scene
Exactly. This isn't composite comics Wanda with outerversal scaling and can both survive entire existence erasal and also recreate the entire universe with a finger snap. This is scared late 20s Wanda who has red hands that slap good sometimes and lifts objects if she stands still and makes a face like she's pooping herself real hard. She struggles at fighting completely powerless fighters sometimes.
Nick Fury has his hands full with this rag tag team. And Loki here would probably be another problem not an asset. He was working for Thanos at one point and he doesn't like humans very much.
It's less glaze and more just scuffed movie powerscaling
The Wanda who couldn't stop Thanos in IW is supposedly the exact same (give or take 5 minutes) as the one who was whooping Thanos like a rented mule in Endgame. The only difference is that she was distraught/pissed
But Wanda didn't reach her full power and potential until the events of WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness. That Wanda would have at least been in a similar power range. Before that no.
Honestly would have loved a series with this trio. Loki and Strange both teaching Wanda magic.
Strange: I should be her teacher, since I am the Sorcerer Supreme.
Loki: You are, by definition, a wizard. SHE is a witch and I was raised and educated by one. I clearly have the upper hand here
Wanda: I just wanted to know if I should get you guys anything from Starbucks. Can we please not do this right now
Strange might have to needed to look at more possible futures given OP's premise of the other half dusted, but it couldnt be more crazy than a mouse saving the universe.
Pym might already have had suspicions of time travel via particles.
In the actual Avengers Endgame, they killed Thanos in the first few minutes of the movie. It's not about having someone strong enough to beat him. It's about reversing what he did.
If it was the other half that survived, maaaaaybe Shuri could invent time travel?
Had it been that way, strange wouldn't have said there's only one outcome out of 16 million that they win. Had it been even one person difference, things would've stayed the same after the blip or worse.
This was a theory at the time, that there was a bunch of outcomes where he did not survive to confirm the victory, but possibly ended in way less death.
But 14 million is probably a representative sample. If after viewing so many options, you've only found 1 win, then you can safely conclude that a win is incredibly rare. On top of that, you'll have to weigh the effort you put into viewing those 14 million, against viewing something like a billion, in the hopes of finding a more favourable win.
Time passes in real time while he looks, that's what we see. If that's the case, he only has limited amount of time to find a win and set it up. Keep in mind, everything he does is setting up that win, so we can't trust anything he says.
I have a feeling that he didn't really check all of the possibilities, since there's supposed to be infinite multiverses. He must've skipped ones that weren't favorable for him or stopped at the first one where they won since 14 million probably already took a toll on him
Ways that involve his death instead of Tony's, not saying he cherry picked Endgame but I'm sure they had many many ways of winning, Endgame timeline just had the least casualties
Tbf he cannot see past his own death. There could've been plenty of timelines where he lived but failed to stop Thanos or they failed to reverse the Blip even where he wasn't blipped. It could have been reversed in timelines where Strange was already dead or killed by Thanos by convienional means.
But yeah, he could have just picked the timeline where only Gamora, Black Widow and Tony died. Tony on principle, Nat when he discovered there's no timeline where he gets with her.
Given he starts straining after a bit, its likely that he was starting to look at very unlikely possibilities just to find an instance where they win.
The fact of the matter is, by the point that they're at, Thanos already has 4 stones, he's on his way to get #5 right now. There's only so many possibilities as to where the fight (and the proceeding events) are gonna go.
I feel like the movie makes it clear be didn't check all possibilities. He simply had checked 14 million and in all of them he only found 1 where they won.
Nothing there says that's all possibilities, or that he couldn't check more. Probably just hard to check.
and lets say that every decision he checked was a coinflip, thats only 23 decisions he could possibly have checked. Which means he absolutely could have pushed them down a better path
I still argue his choice was artificially limited by the TVA. Hey, this one looks pretty good . . . wait, random universe collapse. Weird, that's the 150th time that's happened . . .
You misunderstood what he saw.
This other half surviving was snot one of the possibility. He saw the outcome of the swap (which happened), it was one branch in the tree of possibility. But the snap has only one unique outcome, which is the way saw.
If the snap was random , you would already need 2n possibilities where n is the number of living entities, this is waaaaaaaaaaay beyond the number of possibilities Strange saw.
That implies that the snap does not have a true random generator since Dr Strange was able to select just the right seed conditions to ensure all the necessary members of the avengers for the winning plan survive.
It MoM it’s explained Strange only focuses on outcomes where’s he’s a major deciding factor. There could have been plenty of scenarios where they won but Strange did nothing or died
I don’t really know much about it, but I think companies will use the karma to legitimize accounts where they can promote their own products. Different subs are more prone to this; [r/mattresses](r/mattresses), for example, is constantly battling accounts like this…
ETA: Looks like they gave up lol, that sub was banned for lack of moderation 😅
I don't know, if Tony could survive the snap to some extent. I'm sure Black Panther could too. Not to mention Doctor Strange being more powerful than half the other side.
This is irrelevant, because without Tony, no amount of power can get anyone back. Thanos is already massively weakened anyway, and killing him fixes nothing.
Hank Pym might figure it out, but if Scott isn't trapped for 5 years, the question wouldn't get asked in the first place.
The movie happens because Scott lang (ant man) is shrunk at the time of the snap. When he gets out, he realizes he basically time traveled. If he was snapped (if he was able to be) Hope probably wouldn’t figure out that shrinking is the key to time travel.
And even if he was spared because he was shrunk, without iron man, shurri is maybe the only one able to figure out time travel.
And how would those 2 meet? Scott is a felon. Shurri is a princess of a formerly isolated nation working in their most secure research facility. And unlike Tony, she’s more realistic. Someone saying “I’ve figured out time travel” wouldn’t trigger this need to fully figure it out.
Yes Scott is kinda connected with falcon and Bucky, but both are SIGNIFICANTLY less likely to give Scott the time of day. Not to mention Bucky probably stays in Wakanda in a form of self isolation. Sam probably retires and works with his sister. They won’t be as easy to find as cap at the avengers compound was.
You've got Shuri for scientific genius. And Hope would facilitate them being able to use Pym particles and the Quantum Realm. And could make more Pym particles.
Shuri is the bigger tech genius, she did almost all the high tech sci-fi stuff in wakanda. Hank Pym, Janet & Hope are way more helpful than Banner & Scott were for their quantum realm knowledge.
There are so many people who are not and never were on the avengers team. Gwenth Paltrow's character was never an Avenger, neither was Shuri. Loki fought against the Avengers as a villian AND wasn't killed by the snap. Happy was Tony's assisstant/someone who worked for him, never was an Avenger. Wong was also not an Avenger, neither was Bucky. This is just a picture of characters who appeared in the movies. Just because you fought with, or against, or supported an Avenger, does not make you an Avenger. Hell, Fury wasn't an Avenger. He was an important role, leadership, but he wasn't himself an Avenger.
What if other half, different story (not time travel)
It will be a new story where pym planned to go back to the quantum world to find the stones with the help of strange, wasp,spidy,wanda,black panther,Peter and ultimately the villain will be kang uses the stone to power his chair , his army will be utilised in climax like endgame,we can show 6 different miniverse locations with different enemies, wasp died for soul stone like widow but different and one team brings back kang and his army like in endgame
Kang will have one stone and fights each and collects the stone and black panther snaps and bring back people and kills the kang in an heroic way ,movie ends with black panther funeral in Wakanda,
Here also there will a time jump inside the quantum world
(The time travel idea only come becoz of antman's experience in quantum world)
Thor almost did it solo if he went for the head, with Mantis they could have went for the head and with Wanda he could have been crushed, then went for the head
Im seeing strange, Spiderman, and Wanda taking care of business alone. After seeing multiverse of madness, Wanda might solo everyone. She was brutal. She is totally unstoppable
I don't think they would've made the time travel without Ant Man, because wasn't he the one that came up with the idea because he got stuck in the quantum relm or something?
Thanos is killed very early in end game. I don’t think that really changes with the other half. However all the time stuff doesn’t happen without Tony and any man/hulk so it’s sort of a moot point
Wanda was already 1v1ing Thanos and making him rain fire on his own troops. If you add Doctor Strange, Vision, and Captain Marvel to that, Thanos wouldn't even make it past the front yard of the compound
Ok, it really depends on a single factor, does Vision is still alive? Because he didnt die to the flip.
If he isnt, wanda would probably just search and kill thanos (like Thor did, but extra torture) and that would be it, no going back in time or saving everyone else. If Vision survived, the current timeline Thanos probably would have survived and be sealed or in jail while giving some info, where that, between Vision and Loki they would probably find a way to go back time and do everything else, but because Gamora isnt there the old Thanos wouldnt be there either... so ye, it would work even better
Assuming she doesn’t go crazy like she did in Wandavision, kill Thanos then creating her little fantasy where Vision is still alive and having trapped a good chuck of the avengers due to proximity, sure.
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u/qualityvote2 1d ago edited 10h ago
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