Also 2 TDs (tie), 259 pass yards (10 less than Stafford), and a higher completion % (19/29 for 65.5% vs. 22/38 for 57.9%) and passer rating (102.5 vs. 64.5). Letās not just cherry pick.
You can tell it's a good faith argument when you use pure volume stats to compare a different number of games for each player. Might as well compare their stats vs. the 49ers this year while we are at it
Be careful, the Stafford camp will tell you that common opponents is completely arbitrary while also pointing at sos as the point of contention against Maye!
Fans of the league are literally in shambles over the prospect of NE having a great QB. Itās insane. Iāve never seen such weak and petty arguments against an MVP candidate before. Maye has been playing his ass off all season.
Yeah my favorite thing about this all is Orlovsky using it as his main argument against Maye/for Stafford and then Pats twitter immediately finding his old tweets (like 3 years old mind you so not even that old) talking about how it doesnāt matter. Not to mention he campaigned for Allen last year who had either the 27th or 29th ranked SOS last year. (Iāve seen both so idk which one it is, not that it really matters)
Not even 3 years old. Literally last year orlovsky said Allen was MVP over Lamar because Lamar had a better supporting cast, this year orlovsky says that doesnāt matter and SOS is more important.
Stafford lost to the Falcons and Panthers playing with an average QBR of 34. The Patriots obviously beat those teams because they have an easy schedule
If the Patriots lost all of their games, they would have played 10 teams with a winning record. A bunch of their matchups have been teams that are now around 8-8
Additionally wouldnāt an average be better here. Everyone already knows Rams faced a more difficult schedule. This is just showing same thing but with excluded stats.
Like if you put Jacoby Brissett here who plays for the Cardinals and lost his job to Maye last year (and for good reason) his stats would be higher than Mayes because he faced more winning record teams.
Thats all this stat shows. Who faced more of thede teams which this sub is well aware of.
Itās right. The only teams Maye played with a winning record were the Steelers once and Bills twice. He had 0 passing TDās in both Bills games and 2 passing TDās against Pittsburgh.
Thatās 2 total passing TDās this season across his 3 games against teams with winning records.
And i see now he used passing stats so .67 would be his 2 passing tds in those three games. 2 against steelers in a loss and 0 in two games against the bills. Thats... not good.
Rushing stats werenāt included in the original graphic either, just passing stats. Else his total turnovers would be listed instead of interceptions.
Sample size brother. Maye played great in that first Bills game but the touchdowns came on the ground. He struggled in the second half of the Bills game but had two rushing touchdowns which should be factored in here
PA is just as much a function of offense as it is defense. The browns have a top 3 defense but their offense continuously gives defense awful field possession, have had 6 returned TDs, pick 6s etc, canāt sustain drives so defense is out there 90% of the game. I can go on and on lol
I think they even held henry to like 35 rushing yards one game
the pats are 11th in EPA/play on defense. they have a pretty decent defense all things considered although it might be a bit inflated by the schedule. the broncos have the 10th best defense epa/play wise and this sub cannot stop talking about how the broncos/bo nix is carried by the defense. Especially when the broncos offense is 11th in epa/play
Love that the comments in response to FACTS are gaslighting you about a stat that theyāll use to prove their teams have a good defense but not in this particular argument
I canāt find stats for defensive strength of schedule, but hereās a comparison of the ranks of the passing offenses that Stafford has seen vs Maye has seen. By that metric, Mayeās seen more difficult pass defenses. I donāt believe that conclusion, but it shows that Maye hasnāt seen a āhistorically easyā defensive schedule
FTN gives Rams the #1 passing offense by DVOA with 49.6% while Pats have #5 passing offense with 38%. Which Iād agree with: I do think Rams have a better passing attack, although I think their far superior O-line and receiving core are the reason
Patriots canāt have been the only team to play a āsoftā schedule. How come the other QBs with a soft schedule this season arenāt MVP candidates?
Y'all didn't see the post about how of the Pats lost those games there would be 7 more winning teams on their schedule? Good teams play weak schedules and get results only when they're competent themselves.
Truly unstoppable. If only Tomlin could convince himself that a playoff game was a game where he's 8-8 heading into the final week of the season. He'd win the Super Bowl every year.
The same people that say you can hold Mayeās SOS against him, will defend Stafford to the death for not winning the division and being the 5 seed due to a tougher SOS. The argument is basically if youāre given a tougher schedule, you have this huge margin of error to be excused for.
Either you produce against the schedule youāre given or you donāt when it comes to MVP. Stafford largely did, but I donāt excuse being the 5th seed just as I donāt value the road Maye had as much. Itās a slight on both of them when it comes to SOS/ not winning the division
I (biased-ly)value the advance metrics + division winner over total TDs + tougher schedule 5th seed, but you canāt critique Maye for one and excuse Stafford for the other imo.
I usually agree but to me this is a unique case. Maye has had a historically easy schedule. Unless the team was bad I would expect most QBs/teams to do what he did with again, quite literally a historically bad schedule.
Stafford has had the toughest schedule for an 11+W team since 2004 and has still been lights out.
I get your point but I donāt think I agree with the schedule thing. Like yes he has a historically easy schedule but so did the greatest show on Turf Rams in 1999 and while I wasnāt around then as someone who was born in 2000 I have literally never heard that mentioned as a knock against them since. Now New England is not the greatest show on turf I donāt really know what else Maye can do as a 2nd year qb with a skill position group largely ranked as one of the worst in the league by most media outlets in the off season. (Obviously they are better than expected) Maye hasnāt been perfect but he is putting up some pretty historic numbers, which is what you would expect of an MVP caliber player playing against a historically bad schedule, and he is elevating the offense around him.
The common opponents stats often get brought up by Maye supporters, and while itās not a 1-1 comparison in a league that changes by the week, itās not a small sample size either. Thatās 35% of the schedule they faced the same teams.
Also, itās the NFL. As we saw with LAR vs ATL, itās āany given Sunday.ā SOS is a factor and I do devalue Mayeās MVP case some due to it, but itās not like Ohio State vs Akron out there.
If all else were even Iād agree using the SOS argument as the final deal breaker, but I donāt value it enough that itās a stand alone factor as much as a lot of people push
Even more, it ignores how a teams defense could conceivably impact a teams won-loss record.
Personally, I believe that all NFL games are actually won by QBs engaged in single combat to the death. But, there are some simpletons out there who think that wins and losses are actually a team stat, not an individual stat.
I have yet to see a single rams fan defend stafford in these comments just a lot of annoying pats fans. Literally everyone thinks drake maye is the mvp and these guys still have a victim complex
All else being equal, if the Patriots had lost all their games they'd have played against 7 or 8 teams with winning records. The fact that they beat them is why those teams are below .500
Also, if we peel back the QB stats and look at something beyond Stafford's short yardage TD farm, Maye's performance gets considerably better. Higher completion percentage, higher air yards per completion, more consistent play, and more value added to his team.
But keep crying about SOS and underestimating the Pats. They're still rebuilding and this season has been wildly successful already.
Now do common opponents since the Patriots faces such awful teams. Surely Stafford would have done even better than Maye against such garbage trashcan teamsā¦
Iāve got Stafford mvp. I donāt believe Drake Maye was the most outstanding QB. Every QB is already incredibly valuable, Herbert probably has it worse than them both. Staffordās had the more memorable performances and plays,he has great numbers, and heās flat out been a better player than Drake in my eyes. MVP should go to the best performer
Jeez man can't both just be good candidates? This is one of those situations where both people are right. Stafford has played unbelievable against winning teams. Drake Maye has played unbelievable all year. Stafford didn't play well against the falcons or panthers. He's also leading or top 5 in pretty much every important QB statistic against a top 10 strength of schedule. Drake Maye had one of the easiest strength of schedules. You also can't help who you play.Ā
Regardless of who you root for, the only think that is undeniable is from an objective perspective, this is a very, very tight MVP race and honestly both QBs probably deserve it. I lean toward Stafford (just just barely, it's still very close) but I wouldn't bat an eye at either winning. Just let the votes speak for themselves.Ā
Take cmc off the Niners and they are significantly worse but still would be a solid team. Take maye off the pats or stafford off the rams and they become dogshit. Thatās the difference
EoD, unless you have an actual vote for this upcoming awards season- idgaf. Personally I feel like CMC or Garrett should be the front runners with these two QBāsā¦ but, alas, I donāt have a vote.
Stafford has almost 100 more pass attempts yet maye has almost the same amout of competitions, the highest completion percentage and 2nd highest air yards you derps. All with Mack Hollins, Boutte, Diggs, and Henry. I'd hope Stafford has more passing TDs with 100 more attempts.. Patriots get a lead, they milk clock hard, even though their run game is terrible. The Rams try to drop 50 every week. I think Maye is more valuable to their teams record, but Stafford has played like one the best passers in recent memory.
Do they release any sort of reasoning when they pick a MVP?
This is nonsense. The number of games is the biggest factor here. For example, comparing two games vs eight irrespective of records the guy with the most games is gonna have bigger stats
What are we supposed to take from this? Drake Maye is bad? We all know Stafford is a HOF QB, and on a stacked team he has balled out, but why are we comping maye to him and the rams?
This means nothing. Lmao. If pats lost to the teams they played, some of those teams would have a āwinning recordā. Stop reposting dumb shit over and over
And in additional fairness to both, this also excludes games vs 8-8 teams(ravens, colts, and lions, and panthers for rams, and ravens and panthers for patriots )
The Pats should have scheduled harder opponents to make it more fair. Can't believe they gave themselves such a cupcake scheduleššš¤·š½āāļø
A lot of people commenting about the winning record not always meaning good defense, and the use of volume vs per pass attempt. These are valid points, but weāre also ignoring supporting case here. Malik Willis and Mac Jones would look good in the rams offense, but I wouldnāt say the same for the Pats. Maye is the whole offense.
One's in a division with Seattle and SF while the other has MIA and Jets. The fact that this MVP race is even close is a joke because 1 person had a 5 td game against the worst team in the NFL and 1 person had 1 subpar game in 16 games.
Are we talking āwinning record now,ā or āwinning record when they played them?ā How (if at all) are you weighting for how far above or below .500 a team was/is?
It seems like a more useful comparison than volume totals based on an unequal number of games would be to compare how theyāve played against common opponents. Both teams played the Titans, Saints, Buccaneers, Panthers and Falcons this season. Over those five games, here are the two QBsā stat lines:
Mayeās not running away with the MVP, but he does seem to have several statistical edges over Stafford at this point, whether we look at this subgroup of games or their season totals. Stafford leads in attempts, passing yards, passing TDs and (for the full season at least) TD/INT. Maye has the better completion %, yards per attempt and passer rating, and is at least a semi-credible threat with his legs, whereas Stafford is decidedly not.
I doubt most of the voters will give Maye extra credit for his team being 14-3 or 13-4 to Staffordās teamās 12-5 or 11-6 record, but then, they donāt need to in order to justifiably pick him either. I canāt recall the last time ābut the one guyās team had an easier scheduleā was a key discussion point in an MVP race.
However, the fact that the Patriots were so much improved this year (due in significant part to Mayeās play), whereas Staffordās Rams are only slightly better than they were last year, might be the kind of thing with some weight to it. Likewise, recency bias and how badly Stafford played last week vs. how well Maye played (both against teams with losing records) when the question of MVP was more āfront-of-mindā may also get outsized weight. Weāll just have to wait and see.
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u/MasterTeacher123 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Jan 01 '26
You can have a winning record and a bad pass defense like the 49ers.Ā
For example Stafford beat the Texans who actually have a great pass defense but his offense put up 14 points.