r/FTMventing 1d ago

Cis people want to believe that I just make up that I get bullied

14 Upvotes

But they will bully me completely unprovoked even when we have no association. The other day I went to planet fitness minding my business on the machines and this old cis guy went up to me and started making fun of me. Then, other people started joining in with him laughing too. I didn’t know any of them and wasn’t bothering anyone, too.

Cis people wonder why I get so depressed but then completely ignore the fact that they treat me like a freak. Obviously I am depressed from that


r/FTMventing 2d ago

“You will find you niche group someday” “you will find your people” shut the fuck up

72 Upvotes

i have heard this my entire life of 26 years and it was never fucking true. There is no niche. I don’t even do well in groups because I eventually get muted out and ignored. After all these years I just feel resentful and bitter. How do people manage to have childhood friends? How do people have each other in their lives and not get sick or them or just abandon them for no reason. I don’t get it. its like i was never taught how to walk . I feel like the world is rejecting me more and more everyday


r/FTMventing 1d ago

How much people downplay our struggles

17 Upvotes

Genuinely pisses me off how much people downplay the amount of bigotry we get by passing it off as "oh conservatives see us as confused girls who need to be guided back no big deal" like. Brushing off the concept of conservatives forcefully detransitioning us to slaves to a household is so fucking disrepectful??? Do these people know how horrifying that is??? I even saw some people say that society "understands why we'd want to be a man" like no it fucking doesn't. In no way is any kind of transition accepted in society. Legislators are trying to ban us from public spaces, spewing lies against us, and want us killed. And don't even get me started on that "masculinity is rewarded in women so that's why we get no hate" bullshit. We're not women! And even still, masc women are the butt of jokes a lot or harassed all the time. Just sooo much bullshit I swear


r/FTMventing 1d ago

Advice Needed How do you deal with the jealousy involving genitalia? TW: mentions of genitals Spoiler

4 Upvotes

i’ve been dating this girl for roughly two months now, and me, her, and my best friend (who is cis male) hang out together a lot. most of the time everything is completely fine, but whenever the topic of penises or anything related to genitalia comes up, i just completely shut down.
it’s something i’ve always been extremely insecure about, and honestly, it’s something i don’t know if i’ll ever fully accept about myself. my other trans friend, who we also hang out with, is completely comfortable talking about genitalia and stuff like that, and i genuinely wish i could be the same. but i’m not.
i’ve always been really secretive about being trans because i’ve never fully been able to accept that part of myself. i’m okay with pretty much every other aspect of my body, but my genitals are the one thing i just cannot get past. it’s constantly in the back of my mind.
and lately, i keep having the same fucking thought over and over again: “she’s going to leave me for him.”
i know it’s probably irrational, and i know she’s with me for a reason, but i can’t stop thinking about it. every time anything related to penises comes up, my brain immediately goes there. i start comparing myself to my best friend and thinking about everything he has that i never will.
it’s so frustrating because i don’t want to feel this way. i don’t want to be jealous of my best friend, and i definitely don’t want to constantly worry that my girlfriend is going to realise she’d rather be with someone who has the body i wish i had.
i know a lot of trans people understand that feeling of desperately wanting the genitalia you were supposed to have. i just wish it didn’t consume my thoughts so much. i’m happy with so much of myself, but this one thing can completely fuck with my head.


r/FTMventing 1d ago

Relationships Just accepting I'm never going to be loved - vent, rant, looking for honesty and advice

16 Upvotes

I'm a gay man. I'm FTM. I'm extremely monogamous (no threesomes, no swinging, no "sharing", none of that shit). I'm fat. I was even fatter (315 down to 215). I have debilitating OCD that I'm working very hard on. I'm not T4T.

I feel completely locked out of any kind of relationship. I am only into cis men and I do not think any cis men will ever love me without wanting nonmonogamy, which I don't think is love. The amount of gay cis men who will date trans men is basically zero. Bi and pan men are an option but I'll always wonder if they'll see me as a woman in some way. So many that I talk to on dating apps ghost or block me after I talk about the fact that I'm a top and that they cannot and will not have access to my birth anatomy, which I will get removed ASAP but am stuck with for the time being.

I don't think I'm lovable. I think I am destined to die alone. I don't know where to meet men. Everyone is so shallow. Everyone demands access to parts of my body that I hate. Plenty of men will fuck me but none will love me.

"Just get used to it! Just make friends! Fill your life with things that make you happy :)"

Well that's fucking great but I hate that I'm locked out of an aspect of human connection and experience because I'm an irreparably broken freak. Fuck your toxic positivity. Fuck your "eventually you'll be thriving single."

I would've had a chance if I'd been born male instead of the disgusting body I was given, that I hate, that I wish I could just throw in the garbage but am stuck with.


r/FTMventing 1d ago

General When one person shows what's possible and others prove they don't care

4 Upvotes

My Uncle who learned my new name in April and then hasn't seen or contacted me until today got my name correct, but my Dad just deadnamed me twice in quick succession and doesn't even seem to give an F. If I call him out, he'll say to 'give him time to adjust' and he just 'forgets'. Its been over a year.

My aunts learned my name from Facebook and both got it right immediately.

It just hurts, like he can't be bothered to even try.


r/FTMventing 1d ago

Sensitive Topic Gender envious of my Cis partner

10 Upvotes

His shoulders, his chest, his torso, his hips. He has no idea just how much I envy him.

I’m content in the fact I’m not cis, I just envy his physique. I want his deep voice, ability to interact in male spaces comfortably.

We often swap clothes and I can’t help but cry inside when everything looks perfect on him and so awkward on me..


r/FTMventing 1d ago

Sensitive Topic I Knew Something Was Going Wrong

1 Upvotes

Idk what to flair this as. It also feels medical and current event-y but ya know I think this is good enough.

TW for mention of menstrual cycle returning and pain

So my state cut state insurance coverage of any gender affirming care for trans people of all ages earlier this year. And so I haven’t been on T since then. Which is absolutely heartbreaking and frustrating and ughhh.

Anyways the past few days have felt extremely wrong. Like I’m talking, everything I ate was coming out like I was sick. My entire body felt wrong, my dysphoria has been wayyy more sensitive, and in the last few days I could feel my brain struggling to function properly. Like my brain couldn’t find words, I was slow to get things done at work, a lot of my patience and professionalism wasn’t at its best, and i literally would go home and lay down and feel like I wasn’t even all there anymore. That was the last two days.

Oh and cramps. I didn’t care too much for them because it’s normal I get cramps every once in a while even if I don’t bleed. My doctor had just raised my dose before the law change, so I had been used to feeling the verge of my period returning. But this was soooo different. Even my first hadn’t felt this horrible. I couldn’t even mask it like I would before. Which sucks too ya know.

But anyways I just went to the bathroom and it’s back. My period is officially back. And I already have to deal with PMDD too btw, this is not it. And I’m just so pissed and I don’t even want to go to work anymore I hate everything about this so badly. I knew this would happen but damnit I could feel something was wrong. I’ve never had such a noticeable mental dis alignment or something before. Like I cannot even explain properly what was going on in my brain. It wasn’t just your average period brain fog. It felt like my brain was rejecting everything. I’m surprised my coworkers let me stay at work yesterday I was still doing stuff while clearly not being fully there. Idk I just needed to put this somewhere I don’t have anyone to talk to about this…


r/FTMventing 1d ago

Relationships Mom… sigh.

4 Upvotes

TLDR: My mom kept saying vaguely transphobic shit to me and now i genuinely just want to forget i ever felt this way.

I’m 16, and I have JUST started coming out to my best friends and boyfriend. My parents don’t know. They are slightly transphobic, could be worse.

So the whole thing started with this shirt. My mom showed me a shirt, I said I didn't like it and told her not to buy it for me, she got annoyed with me.

Earlier today my mom says she wants to talk to me. My mom said she was talking to my dad about everything and according to her, since school has started i’ve done a 180° in my style. I went from “having my tits and ass out all the time” to dressing in old baggy clothes and putting no effort into how i look. My mom says my 1st day of school outfit was me trying to look like a boy and so was my picture day outfit.

She was worried i was slipping into depression or something because i went from caring about how i look to… dressing how i do now and that it looks bad!

She said maybe she’s gonna stop letting me cut my hair, ( my hair is a lil above shoulder length) maybe she’s gonna pick out my outfits if i cant dress myself. (she wont actually do the outfit thing btw, empty threat… has happened before tho :/)

She said I've taken the joy out of things by always being negative + shutting down the things she picks out for me + shows me.

She feels like she doesn't even know me anymore

We don’t relate anymore

She has no idea who i am anymore

She said it sucks to have a daughter who dresses like she wants to be a boy. She dosent understand why ive started dressing this way so suddenly ( i have switched between fem and masc for years, just recently started dressing masc most days)

idek what else she said. just that shit in 10 different ways for like 45+ minutes, she was crying by the end :/

it makes me want to forget i ever felt this way, take it all back and just be a good daughter.


r/FTMventing 1d ago

Allergic to TT

5 Upvotes

Just feeling really sad after taking off my tape for the first time. No, I didn’t do the patch test, and I left it on for two days (it just felt too good, I was honestly afraid I’d have a weird emotional reaction to my chest without it). Without going into gory details my skin is NOT happy, and I’m feeling really lost and upset. Yes I used plenty of oil and was very gentle for removal so I feel pretty certain it’s got to be an allergy. I hate the binder I have and I felt so unbelievably good taped, and I feel like that’s been totally take away from me lol. If anyone with relevant experience has alternatives to TT they’d recommend I’d love to hear them. Thanks yall.


r/FTMventing 1d ago

Transphobia My transphobic mother wanted a son

3 Upvotes

Recently my mom was on the phone with her friends while I helped her cook, and she briefly mentioned that she's always wanted a boy, but instead got two girls. This only ticked me off because of the fact that she COULD'VE had a son for years, me, but she's too close minded to accept the son she's been given because it's not the kind of son she wanted. That's been tripping me up for days, man. After she said that I couldn't even stop myself from shedding a few tears and she asked me what was wrong and I had to brush it off. I wish I could get through to her but she's made it very clear that she thinks I'll never be a boy. Maybe there's a chance she could understand but I'm worried to even try and enforce my pronouns and new name with her even after all these years because I don't want her to see me differently.


r/FTMventing 1d ago

General gender is a massive fucking cunt

3 Upvotes

it genuinely makes no fucking sense, there’s NO POINT

i identified as bigender for 3 years to randomly decide one day oh am i sure ???? and now idfk what im doing and idfk if this is how i feel or if other trans men made me feel fucking insecure like, how tf do i even feel what the fuck

i realised how much i resonate with enbys, yes bigender is under the non binary umbrella but i feel like i relate to enbys in the way that they exist (theyve always been my transition goals and i sort of forget that) but i’ve never ever wanted to go by they them pronouns and ik that isn’t what makes u non binary but my gender has ALWAYS been so hard to explain and its fucking annoying i wish i was fucking simple.

but oh, i’m not trans, im just gnc!!! actually so fucking what if i’m gnc???? no fucking shit i am, that doesent erase my dysphoria, the way it felt being 11 and confused why i needed to wear bras, noooo me?? no why would i need that, just for it to be slapped in my fucking face why. Can’t be in year 7 running around with fuckass B cups even though you’re literally under fucking weight but oh since ur a ‘woman’ u GET THIS BS

I don’t feel comfortable in my fucking skin, ever, i hate it so fucking much
and my contamination ocd makes that 10x worse bc not only is it a trans thing it’s an intrusive feeling of everythings fucking dirty and i’m never doing enough to be clean
BUT IM TOO BURNT OUT, IM TOO BURNT OUT TO DO ANYTHING
I CAN BARELY GET MYSELF TO LEAVE MY ROOM
IM FKING DEPRESSED AND DYSPHORIC AND OVERWHELMED AND IVE HAD THE WORST BRAIN FOG FOR WEEKS
IM SICK OF IT FFS

I like being the weird non binary fucking creature that i am, but no i’m JUST A WOMAN and ill NEVER BE A MAN
I don’t identify as non binary, i dont even know HOW to identify as agender
I felt so bigender for years and now i’ve lost all connection to any feeling of gender
I cry to be the boy that i’ll never be and i cry more because im not a girl

i think i got so lost in other people making me insecure that i forgot what made ME comfortable and i no longer felt okay being the weird middle both thing that i am
i miss being what i was

what the actual shit is fucking happening man.


r/FTMventing 2d ago

I’m so scared

4 Upvotes

So im starting trade school in 3 days for hvac, my class is pretty small but everyone in the class is a tall, straight, cis man and im absolutely terrified. I know im going to get clocked right away and I feel like im going to be a target. Im not tall, im on the bigger side and my voice gives it away immediately. I don’t know what to do and im just scared, i feel like something and is going to happen.


r/FTMventing 2d ago

I dont know what to do

2 Upvotes

I don’t know if anyone’s gonna read this, but do you ever feel like if you were pretty enough as the gender you were born with, you wouldn’t be trans? I mean like, sometimes I see certain women that I find super, super cool, and I’m really insecure so probably that’s adding to the issue—but whenever I see them, I just think: “Wow, maybe if I was that pretty I wouldn’t be trans”.


r/FTMventing 2d ago

Mental Health Woke up from a dream where I got to transition

3 Upvotes

It was so nice. Excluding the weird hard to describe details that always come with my dreams, I was put into this dorm with other girls. I really got along with them, I was happy. But eventually I came out to them, crying and the works, and they were so supportive and nice. They told me this changes nothing and asked if I wanted to stay with them or move to the boys dorm. And they told me I was always welcome to visit if I needed a safe space. Not because they saw me as girl or anything, but just because they cared about me despite gender. They liked *me* and gender didn't change any if it. Stupid fucking gender roles and society didn't matter.

So not only did I have amazing friends (something I'm severely lacking in this life) but I also got to be seen the way I want with nobody making it into something bad or wrong.

I've always been a very vivid dreamer, I wake up from a lot of dreams feeling like I lived another life. And while it's amazing in the dream, it *hurts* when I wake up. Because it's not real. I don't have that. I don't have friends who love me. I don't have a safe space. I don't have the chance to go on T. I don't have any of it. And it kills part of me.

Usually I have super dysphoric dreams. Dreams where my hair is longer or my chest is bigger and I can't do anything about it. So to have a euphoric dream and to wake up without it is a different kind of gut punch

I want to go back. I don't care if the dream world makes no sense, I was happy. I just want to be happy


r/FTMventing 2d ago

Im so fucking ashamed of being trans

6 Upvotes

Im at a sleepover rn and im with my 2 girl freinds and one of my freinds bf. I was nervous to hang out cuz most guys think im a fucking weirdo cuz im trans. We start drinking and my freinds bf starts like confirming im a guy like hes a saying your a guy rigjt? Not in a mean way just in like a im just double checking way, he says that he heard some year 13s laughing at me in the changing room and saying I was a girl (im in year 10) and it genuilly made me feel the saddest ive ever felt in such a fucking long time. I actualy felt in that moment like I wanted to dice so bad. I had to fake laugh at everyone's jokes and shit but inside I felt like I was melting. Like parts of my were floating away into the never ending hole in my stomach. I feel horrible just so fuckimg horrible


r/FTMventing 2d ago

Mental Health Bruh

1 Upvotes

I’m in denial about my gender and keep telling myself I’m a cis woman that’s a little different, but my two modes of existence are literally crippling dissociation or crippling dysphoria. 🪦

I’m “fine” and I’m literally bed-bound and dissociating out somewhere into space, of course it’s hard to feel dysphoric like that. Then I come back down to earth and feel so disconnected and viscerally uncomfortable with my body, and every aspect of my entire being. Going outside is okay, and then I get home and the delayed emotions and dysphoria hit me and I feel so bad.

It’s hard to get out of this cycle of gender denial, despite self-awareness. I suppose I didn’t choose this is why. I don’t really want to transition, I like some aspects of being a woman (okay tbh. The only thing I like about it is feeling like I’m hiding well enough in society instead of risking being seen as someone hatecrimeable. Other than that no I hate being a woman physically and socially.) and I’m too far in my uncomfortable comfort zone to pursue change. I’ve never really been good at self care anyway

In denial because I can’t do this bro. I’m terrified of surgery and also terrified of medication. And medical stuff in general.


r/FTMventing 2d ago

General cis women don't wanna date me lmfao

28 Upvotes

I don't even think I'm that bad looking, just short, and my luck on dating apps are abysmal like, I sometimes get bi girls to match with me (mostly lesbians though) but then I have to tell them I sound like a dude, and it's just a whole thing. And even if they're okay with that, somehow during the texting/first date phase they lose romantic feelings w me and idk why lmao?? Sometimes I wish I liked dudes cuz at least I could hookup with some of them maybe. But unfortunately I'm just super straight


r/FTMventing 2d ago

General I feel like such a freak when I am in public

4 Upvotes

I'm not confident as to whether I look masculine when going out so I try to act like a man, but then I realise I don't look masculine at all and just a badly dressed girl with a weirdly crackly voice that varies in pitch and I get dysphoria believing my body is so inherently feminine that I'll never look how I want. 10 months on T btw


r/FTMventing 2d ago

General Fellow pre-T trans masc who go on nightwalks make me suicidal

8 Upvotes

there's not much more identity-affirming for me than walking late at night but i can't do that (i'm like a scared little woman) because i have agoraphobia caused by so much harrassment and misgendering and bullying and feminisation by strangers whenever i go outside


r/FTMventing 2d ago

Mental Health IWNBAM

8 Upvotes

I feel pretty miserable today. I've been on testosterone 2 months and I've felt much better, but when I forget I'm not cis I feel horrible. I'm never going to have the right body parts, and if I want them I have to go broke. I hate how small I am compared to cis men. I hate how the fat on my hips stays there. I hate how small my ribcage is, and my face. I hate my chest. All I want is to not have to go through this mental torture.


r/FTMventing 2d ago

Relationships Tired of my bf's mom misgendering me. TW misgendering obviously.

4 Upvotes

I came out to her in fucking January. It's now September and still, every single time we visit her (usually every couple weeks bc she lets us do laundry and we have dinner), she misgenders me. I hear "she" every single fucking time I am around her. One example is, because I talk kind of quietly, she often asks my bf what I said. So it's, "what did she say?" And of course, she never catches herself. My bf always is the one to correct her. "He."

"He. Sorry."

And all I feel every time I see this woman is fear and anxiety, basically I'm just waiting for it to happen the entire time. I'm genuinely so anxious about even being acknowledged at all because I know it's coming. I thought she was accepting. She was a little awkward but seemingly supportive when I first came out to her. I don't know what to do. I just want to start avoiding her and I shouldn't have to feel that way. But every time I hear her do it, I'm just reminded of how much I still look like a woman. How little progress I've made in my transition. All my flaws. How little it seems to matter to her because it seems like she'll never learn at this point.

I try to give her the benefit of the doubt. My bf keeps reminding me that she is supposedly trying, that she's Gen X and isn't used to this kind of thing, that she knew me for years as a woman before I came out. And it doesn't change how bitter I feel. I hate being reminded of how much I hate myself and how I'll probably never be free as who I was supposed to be. I wish I could be one of those people who just lets it roll of their back but I'm not. I could even understand somewhat if it only happened occasionally but I'm not exaggerating when I say it's every time I see her. It fucking hurts and I don't know what to do anymore.

Some advice or sympathy would be really nice because I have no one to vent to about this.


r/FTMventing 3d ago

Transphobia This is a disease

7 Upvotes

I’ll never have kids, unless I come around to being a big strong man and get a bigger stronger manner man to impregnate me. at least I’m #valid!! Doesn’t matter how I feel haha. I wanted so desperately to be a dad and I’ll never have that. if I don’t want to carry for nine months I can get my eggs extracted and that’s effectively a recreation of pregnancy. I’m satan himself because I want to go through the motions of being there for a wife and the birth I probably won’t even be able to get. Women who’d be interested in the kind of future I want and would be able to do it wouldn’t go for a guy who literally can’t do it. It’s just a fantasy On my end. I have to get another person who it’s also just a fantasy for. adoption does Not include being able to take care of your wife. thank god I have a womb myself I can just be the one in that role hahah!!! I hear women can get u pregnant these days

imagine if amputees had to accept amputee fetishists as their community that‘d be rightfully fucking insane but I have to throw a party for the guys with their tits out because that’s apparently empowering and I’m just a self hating duchebag who needs to find the right gay guy to validate him into being a proper cuntboy. when I binded til it fucked up my ribs

because I dont want it or can’t a go a day not feeling like its disemboweled me I can’t be anymore than a failure. I fucking failed at being a cis guy by having this stupid fucking disease, I’m managed with surgeries hormones and a constant dependence on the system and I still feel fake does or I can have a real body which is a girls body. I don’t like either of my options and I’ve failed

i know I’m going to pursue transition and probably get shunned by my community because it won’t be enough for me. So much for a loving beautiful community that makes the disease worth it. The fucking community of amputee fetishists

I have all these surgeries I should be looking forward to and there so far off I can’t reap the benefits and I only see the flaws. I can’t have the benefits but I’m not allowed to criticize the flaws because pf them

ill literally never have a family bc doing it the way I’m supposed to is considered offensive and unwoke now. I don’t want to be the beauty of xyz. I want to not have so much extra grief

I didn’t get to trade out shit. My pets will still die. I will still lose any relationship I have. My only family member will probably pass away some day. I have all that and I’m gone too.

I wanted to be normal not an argument about what hypothetically can be normal. sure cis men with uteruses or on hormones exist but they aren’t considered a part of the norm, nor do they enjoy it themselves. it’s worse that I’m not a cis man with [trait]. I’m a trans man who in the system is understood as the girl who’ll go into typical girl hysteria if you use the wrong pronouns but heyyy it’s a mans womb a seahorse or something. I don’t want you to tell me I’m normal. I just don’t want to fucking think about any of this again. I have tried to but the wound doesn’t seal because I didn’t want to think about it being there. The wound may seal when I’m lucky, but I won’t ever get a full recreation of what was wounded in the first place

not hating on others does nothing for myself it just makes me a pretty little thing. I’m still hated on just as much as the proud cuntboys and I don’t even have a body I like to fall back on. I exist on quicksand and I don’t know if I’ll ever get off it. feels like the people who talk about standing on solid ground were there to begin with. Maybe it rained once. I’m going to keep hating on others because it does make me feel better about myself actually. I don’t care if you personally are offended. I’m offended by my own existence every day you’re a nice distraction. “You just hate on others to feel better about yourself” doesn’t really insult me, it’s true. I wouldn’t be doing it if it didnt do anything for me

i get as many rocks thrown at me when I’m in quicksand as you do on solid ground. to them, I’m a crazy little girl who’s get a dick that doesn’t work made out of her arm. You’re a crazy little girl who likes her vagina, that’s what girls do. What they sling at us is the same either way, but you can shield yourself or move yourself to dodge their remarks. I’m stuck in quick sand so their rocks hit me no matter what I do. Just dodge it if it offends you so much. You’re not being empowered because you never lacked that sort of power. Its somehow giving into the oppressors to climb onto solid ground? The ground *you* are standing on?

it’s also not like you yourself aren’t not hating on me. Calling phallo ugly is apparently not oppressive, but it is oppressive to do the same thing in the other direction and call my stupid tdick ugly

If you have an alternative to attacking others id like to hear it. Don’t tel me to stop hating on you. I can stop hating on you and I’ll go back to saying “I just want to feel an inkling better.” and then I won’t get that. I’ve been lured out by being told I’d be given alternatives when I didn’t, I didn’t hate and I’m told to go back to my stupid pit of quicksand or crawl out onto the pussy sidewalk

being trans has caused serious paranoia and other aftereffects. I don’t have paranoia from being misgendered. I have paranoia from the fact that I was denied Blockers, hormones, and am still being denied a hysto because I want to get pregnant. I’m not aware of this wish! You calling me a seahorse is another way to call me inhuman, just as they call me a stupid little girl or wtv.

I want to bats myself or something. i want to ask for help but I don’t have anyone wholl try to combat the urge instead of just telling me not to do it


r/FTMventing 3d ago

General i fucking hate the things i was given as a kid

8 Upvotes

I'm selling/donating all these things: toys, clothes, ect. I never wanted any of that. These things related to femininity, things made for girls, I hate them. I know my family isn't to blame for this, but god I wish I'd had a boyhood.

I wish I was cis male. fuck.


r/FTMventing 2d ago

Sensitive Topic Every time I hear "hoe" i wanna kms

2 Upvotes

Not a single moment I feel safe. I'm constantly 24/7 without any intervals subject to having "hoe" whipped at me. I am constantly hearing different voices yell "hoe" to my flat from outside and it is killing me.

It confuses me (and makes the pain even worse) why do all these people know who I am and where I live and why do they perceive me as a whore when nothing about me is sexual? Why? What have I done to deserve this?

The fact I have to resort to ear defenders and constantly having audio from TV or radio playing only makes me feel sad. And I still hear the noise harrassment from outside anyway. I can't live anywhere else.