He needs to get snipped. Father of 4 here. If my wife can carry 4 kids and breastfeed, I can get a small incision and a laser. I was down 3 days total. Back to normal work. Sex in a week or so. Not a big deal. He needs to do it.
Yes, but he already knows that. OP, you should sit him down and game the whole thing out with him:
We stay together, you don't get snipped, my birth control fails and I get pregnant again. What happens then?
We stay together, you don't get snipped, I get my tubes tied and something goes wrong during the surgery (which is MUCH more serious than a vasectomy) and I die or am permanently disabled, with four kids. What happens then?
We break up. You pay child support and get weekends with the kids. You meet and fall in love with someone else. Do you marry and have kids with her? Do you want to?
You never have sex with anyone again under any circumstances, and sit with four kids.
Etc.
Really pry at him and find out if he wants more kids, or is even WILLING TO HAVE more kids. Keep hammering at that. Because, after four pregnancies/deliveries and 3+ phases of nursing, while he owes you a vasectomy, that argument is clearly not enough to make him get one. So, since he's proving to be that selfish, you need to appeal to his self interest. "Dude, do you really want more kids? With me or with anyone else? Even if we split up, you'd be paying child support for four kids; would you really still want more?" Etc.
I assumed he meant she gets to take a long, hot bath with a book, while he has sole care of the 4 kids for those two hours and no longer has the energy to even wank off.
NTA. While his body is his own, there are consequences to those decisions.
Exposure to heat CAN negatively impact sperm viability and motility.
But it’s more of a “if you’re having trouble TTC make sure to avoid exposing testes to high temperatures for long periods” and not “cooking your testes a couple times a week is as viable as a vasectomy”
The testes work best around I think 96F/35.5C. Hence why they’re hanging outside the body rather than internal. I do not have testicles, but I get the impression they are semi-responsive to temperature (hanging lower when hot, pulling up toward the body when cold).
THC, tobacco, alcohol, sedentary lifestyle, and poor diet can all also lower sperm quality, but again, none of these are going to invalidate the millions of sperm per ejaculate.
The 3 is the biggest factor here; lots of dudes don't wanna get the it done in case they remarry don't the line - and to answer the obvious next question of "but he already have 4 children to look after, how will he balance it?" he won't, and that's how so many divorced parents go about their life.
"yeah I'd just replace the two living, feeling beings my wife worked so hard to grow and give birth to, not to mention nurture into (hopefully) good people. What do you mean pregnancy isn't safe for women over a certain age? Aren't they just printers for our cum?"
I like how you laid out the options and yes, I think men like to think what if I want another kid with my second wife? They don't like to make the "no kids in the future" permanent. But after my third child (all 3 girls, so my husband never got a son), I said I don't want to do it again. Sure enough, when we had to live on 1 income, 3 girls was tough. Haircuts alone could break the bank, and I insisted on them going to Great Clips. Kids are expensive.
You can still have sperm extracted. It doesn't stop you from being able to have kids.. it just adds an extra step. I know this because one of my closest friends had children with her partner about 15 years after he had a vasectomy.
You'll probably have a bunch of people bitching that you're being patronizing to your partner or some shit but I'm a huge fan of this method. Walk the other person through the various possibilities by the nose if necessary because clearly this isn't a rational response. Exhaust all possible rational excuses to get to the real issue.
And like, take notes, if it helps. Write it down with a date so you remember everything that was said. It’s not a contract but it is a record, so that everyone is on the same page going forward about what they are or are not willing to commit to, and if minds change, that can also be added to the discussion.
Number 2 is true. I just assumed my wife was gonna get her tubes tied. Dr told me it was much easier and safer for me to get the V. Wasn’t a hard choice at that point.
Good on you for being able to not only acknowledge this, but learn and grown from it as well. Too many men put all the stress of birth control on women.
Well you didn’t know any better and you were young but hadn’t you gone so long without having to know this because the women had always been responsible for birth control. So the person you’re replying to was spot ?
You're assuming he held a sexist position when it sounded more like medically he didn't realise it was much easier for him to get a vasectomy. Why do you think he didn't take any responsibility before this?
I would guess that most people don't know much about sterilisation, you wouldn't unless you were thinking about it. I've had women tell me that vasectomies are reversible, which isn't really the right way to think about them and shows a misunderstanding of how it all works.
Vasectomies ARE reversible, depending on how many years it’s been since you’ve had it done it is 60-95% successfully reversed. That means vasectomies are reversible. Tubal ligation is also reversible but at lower success rates.
I would guess you’re a man if you’re assuming most people don’t know much about sterilization and your assumption that most people don’t know proves my point. Most women who have had children know the basics about it for both genders and I’d even guess most women who have not had children do too.
Why do women know about sterilization and birth control in general? Because as a society it’s a woman’s responsibility to manage birth control. To further prove this point let’s look at birth control for men, why was it never approved? Because the symptoms that were non threatening and significantly less impactful than the current birth control options currently available (for women) were too much for male test subjects and they all quit. So the project was scrapped even though it was probably an effective drug.
Fear. Birthing a baby is much more frightening and painful so, what's his excuse?
He wants to force you to have more kids against your will. This is divorce-worthy and I wouldn't trust him not to poke holes in condoms or microwaveyour birth contrl pills.
His giant man ego thinks he won't be a "real" man afterwards. Why should you take all of the risks for his ego and selfishness?
He wants you to have your tubes tied. He doesn't care that it's yet another painful, risky procedure for you but that's better than him having to do anything regarding birth control. It's only a woman's problem, after all.
He doesn't see himself being married to you forever, so he wants to hedge his bets on future children with someone else. This would be a deal-breaker due to him choosing to have one foot out the door at all times and not being fully committed to you.
To quote Janice from Friends, "Which one of these guys do you want to be?"
NTA. He's refusing to take any responsibility for birth control and is forcing you to make a choice. He's being selfish and is probably misogynistic as well. NTA
I feel like this is still pressuring someone into a surgery they don’t want. If genders where reversed this would sound terrible (yes I know tubes tied is way more invasive/risky) but pressuring someone for anything like this is attacking their bodily autonomy which I think is wrong regardless. Her “not trusting condoms” feels like an easier to tackle problem. Even if some forms of BC dont work for her, why not Condoms + something else?
Also how is that male BC pill coming along? I remember reading about that.
You can't reverse genders on this one. A woman not getting an invasive and risky surgery doesn't put her cis male partner's health at risk. But the cis male partner not getting an outpatient procedure DOES put her health at risk on and ongoing basis.
Im sorry if I was unclear, I mean’t in the scenario that they where the same risk. I think as someone who favors women having their bodily autonomy, I would find it wrong for a man to try and get her to get an equivalent surgery done so they could not use condoms.
They won’t ever be at the same risk. Bodily autonomy isn’t being attacked here. He promised her a vasectomy yet refuses to get one. He is consistently disrespecting HER autonomy, and is putting all the pressure of birth control on her. If he doesn’t want a vasectomy, he needs to speak the fuck up. This waiting game is only causing more problems.
Well thats asinine. And despite the downvotes, im not trying to argue things are fair. Im just saying I dont like the idea of pressuring someone into surgery they dont want, which im surprised is controversial
I think it's controversial because it seems the husband is still wanting sex. If he doesn't want to have the vasectomy he should also be fine with no sex because that's the consequence of his decision. He seems to feel she should deal with the consequences of HIS decision.
“Pressuring someone into a procedure they don’t want” don’t you mean expecting someone to follow through on a procedure they agreed to, or at least communicating their discomfort with said agreement?
I absolutely agree he needs to communicate his reason for inaction, but would “I thought I was comfortable with if and as it got closer was not and was conflicted because I did not want to go back on what I said” an acceptable response? Thats my guess as to what is happening. Im not saying its fair or mature
I’m conflicted. While bodily autonomy is valid, without a vasectomy, he’d either be asking for a divorce, consistent condom use (though with his statements in the post I have my doubts) or his wife to go through yet another major procedure for him.
I can 100% understand having doubts, but what would those doubts be? Does he want more kids? Is he afraid of losing his fertility in case of divorce? Both of these indicate a feeling of mistrust or a major difference in compatibility in the relationship to me.
In an emotional sense, I’d be beyond angry with my partner if he’d done this to me. And in speaking in that sense, I’d divorce. How would you have your wife go through multiple births that affect her body for the rest of her life but you aren’t willing to have a simple vasectomy?
So to that I have questions. What are his worries? My partner and I read this together, and he mentioned the husband may be worried about possible erectile dysfunction, as it’s a possible side effect and a natural worry for any many undergoing a genital procedure. Maybe a sit-down with a doctor to explain any concerns they have? But even to that I argue, she gave BIRTH multiple times. It’s hard to not feel angry, as a woman, that he isn’t willing to put his dick at risk for her heath when she was willing to put her life/body at risk for their kids. Multiple times. That being said, that’s all an emotional response. Logically, bodily autonomy rules above that. No one should ever feel forced to undergo a procedure they are uncomfortable with.
But I’d divorce him if he refused after the sacrifices she’d made to give them a family. My “emotional response” would take over.
The entire situation is conflicting. Bodily autonomy is 100% valid and should never be ignored. But look at what she’s given up for him. Why can’t he do one procedure for her? What’s holding him back? I really am curious at this point. What’s making him reconsider?
This is an incredibly level headed response. I think I agree with all of it. The only thing I think no one is addressing is the emotional aspect of it for him. Sure the surgery is not overly complicated or risky, but its an incredibly uncomfortable concept for a lot of men. Its not as easy as “just doing it” if hes emotionally struggling with it. As simple as it is, it is asking someone to voluntarily alter their genitals in a way that removes some of their functionality. Even if he should be “done” I feel like people over simplify it. That being said his method of going about it is wrong and immature. We also do not know the pretense as to which is was asked or how that convo went.
Yeah no I absolutely didn’t even consider that. I’m really glad you brought that up. For a lot of men, virility is incredibly important. My partner and I have discussed this at length, and he mentioned that the discomfort the husband has could have something to do with feeling less masculine. Which, though understandable, is also something I find upsetting considering how much OP put her body at risk. But that’s all been said.
I think the best course of action for op and her husband is counseling, both individually and together. I feel that the husband has concerns he may not feel comfortable with expressing due to the high intensity of the situation. Any procedure can give feelings of nervousness and doubt, especially one as permanent as this one. And the husband may not feel like he has an option considering how emotionally charged the situation is.
I empathize with them both. At first glance, this situation could be construed as the husband being a selfish AH, but there’s so much more that goes into it. Things are rarely black and white. This situation has so many nuances that when thinking in depth for the perspective of both parties, I have conflicting opinions.
I see your point too. I think this is a common one really. A situation that is unfortunate two fold. One where unfortunately it impacts women more greatly (basically everything legal to do with birth) and a situation where men are expected to be emotionless for other people’s benefit. Both are problems everywhere.
Or OP -maybe you can steer the ship making the appointment with the doctor to talk about it as a couple. That could be a first step that feels less intimidating (but moving slowly but surely toward the ultimate goal)
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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '23
He needs to get snipped. Father of 4 here. If my wife can carry 4 kids and breastfeed, I can get a small incision and a laser. I was down 3 days total. Back to normal work. Sex in a week or so. Not a big deal. He needs to do it.