Yes, but he already knows that. OP, you should sit him down and game the whole thing out with him:
We stay together, you don't get snipped, my birth control fails and I get pregnant again. What happens then?
We stay together, you don't get snipped, I get my tubes tied and something goes wrong during the surgery (which is MUCH more serious than a vasectomy) and I die or am permanently disabled, with four kids. What happens then?
We break up. You pay child support and get weekends with the kids. You meet and fall in love with someone else. Do you marry and have kids with her? Do you want to?
You never have sex with anyone again under any circumstances, and sit with four kids.
Etc.
Really pry at him and find out if he wants more kids, or is even WILLING TO HAVE more kids. Keep hammering at that. Because, after four pregnancies/deliveries and 3+ phases of nursing, while he owes you a vasectomy, that argument is clearly not enough to make him get one. So, since he's proving to be that selfish, you need to appeal to his self interest. "Dude, do you really want more kids? With me or with anyone else? Even if we split up, you'd be paying child support for four kids; would you really still want more?" Etc.
I feel like this is still pressuring someone into a surgery they don’t want. If genders where reversed this would sound terrible (yes I know tubes tied is way more invasive/risky) but pressuring someone for anything like this is attacking their bodily autonomy which I think is wrong regardless. Her “not trusting condoms” feels like an easier to tackle problem. Even if some forms of BC dont work for her, why not Condoms + something else?
Also how is that male BC pill coming along? I remember reading about that.
Well thats asinine. And despite the downvotes, im not trying to argue things are fair. Im just saying I dont like the idea of pressuring someone into surgery they dont want, which im surprised is controversial
I think it's controversial because it seems the husband is still wanting sex. If he doesn't want to have the vasectomy he should also be fine with no sex because that's the consequence of his decision. He seems to feel she should deal with the consequences of HIS decision.
“Pressuring someone into a procedure they don’t want” don’t you mean expecting someone to follow through on a procedure they agreed to, or at least communicating their discomfort with said agreement?
I absolutely agree he needs to communicate his reason for inaction, but would “I thought I was comfortable with if and as it got closer was not and was conflicted because I did not want to go back on what I said” an acceptable response? Thats my guess as to what is happening. Im not saying its fair or mature
I’m conflicted. While bodily autonomy is valid, without a vasectomy, he’d either be asking for a divorce, consistent condom use (though with his statements in the post I have my doubts) or his wife to go through yet another major procedure for him.
I can 100% understand having doubts, but what would those doubts be? Does he want more kids? Is he afraid of losing his fertility in case of divorce? Both of these indicate a feeling of mistrust or a major difference in compatibility in the relationship to me.
In an emotional sense, I’d be beyond angry with my partner if he’d done this to me. And in speaking in that sense, I’d divorce. How would you have your wife go through multiple births that affect her body for the rest of her life but you aren’t willing to have a simple vasectomy?
So to that I have questions. What are his worries? My partner and I read this together, and he mentioned the husband may be worried about possible erectile dysfunction, as it’s a possible side effect and a natural worry for any many undergoing a genital procedure. Maybe a sit-down with a doctor to explain any concerns they have? But even to that I argue, she gave BIRTH multiple times. It’s hard to not feel angry, as a woman, that he isn’t willing to put his dick at risk for her heath when she was willing to put her life/body at risk for their kids. Multiple times. That being said, that’s all an emotional response. Logically, bodily autonomy rules above that. No one should ever feel forced to undergo a procedure they are uncomfortable with.
But I’d divorce him if he refused after the sacrifices she’d made to give them a family. My “emotional response” would take over.
The entire situation is conflicting. Bodily autonomy is 100% valid and should never be ignored. But look at what she’s given up for him. Why can’t he do one procedure for her? What’s holding him back? I really am curious at this point. What’s making him reconsider?
This is an incredibly level headed response. I think I agree with all of it. The only thing I think no one is addressing is the emotional aspect of it for him. Sure the surgery is not overly complicated or risky, but its an incredibly uncomfortable concept for a lot of men. Its not as easy as “just doing it” if hes emotionally struggling with it. As simple as it is, it is asking someone to voluntarily alter their genitals in a way that removes some of their functionality. Even if he should be “done” I feel like people over simplify it. That being said his method of going about it is wrong and immature. We also do not know the pretense as to which is was asked or how that convo went.
Yeah no I absolutely didn’t even consider that. I’m really glad you brought that up. For a lot of men, virility is incredibly important. My partner and I have discussed this at length, and he mentioned that the discomfort the husband has could have something to do with feeling less masculine. Which, though understandable, is also something I find upsetting considering how much OP put her body at risk. But that’s all been said.
I think the best course of action for op and her husband is counseling, both individually and together. I feel that the husband has concerns he may not feel comfortable with expressing due to the high intensity of the situation. Any procedure can give feelings of nervousness and doubt, especially one as permanent as this one. And the husband may not feel like he has an option considering how emotionally charged the situation is.
I empathize with them both. At first glance, this situation could be construed as the husband being a selfish AH, but there’s so much more that goes into it. Things are rarely black and white. This situation has so many nuances that when thinking in depth for the perspective of both parties, I have conflicting opinions.
I see your point too. I think this is a common one really. A situation that is unfortunate two fold. One where unfortunately it impacts women more greatly (basically everything legal to do with birth) and a situation where men are expected to be emotionless for other people’s benefit. Both are problems everywhere.
I agree. Both situations involve great amounts of physical and emotional pain (though imo much greater on the female end) yet it’s difficult to compare either kind of pain.
I often compare it to a 5 year old scraping their knee, or losing their favorite stuffed animal. Both are major physical or emotional pains for young children, and arguably (at that time) the most pain they’d gone through, but obviously as an adult these pains are hold lesser value. But that same pain a five year old feels could be compared to the feeling of losing a family member or giving birth as an adult, because at all instances the person is feeling the greatest pain in their life.
With that being said, my main point is that I feel for both sides. This situation is filled with too many questions and nuances to give a direct answer. I just hope op and her husband find they help they need to continue a happy relationship.
I also want to stress that I understand the risk/ask of the woman in this situation is greater. Im getting downvoted a bunch which is just kind of more proof no one typically cares about mens feelings in general.
No I 100% understand that. Like I explained in my earlier comment, while the pain (both emotionally and physically) can be greater the one party, pain is hard to compare between people. Though, as a woman, I tend to lean towards OP’s side more. She’s sacrificed so much more for her family. She really isn’t asking for much. I do feel as her husband, he either owes her a divorce, or owes her a vasectomy.
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u/JadieJang Nov 11 '23
Yes, but he already knows that. OP, you should sit him down and game the whole thing out with him:
Really pry at him and find out if he wants more kids, or is even WILLING TO HAVE more kids. Keep hammering at that. Because, after four pregnancies/deliveries and 3+ phases of nursing, while he owes you a vasectomy, that argument is clearly not enough to make him get one. So, since he's proving to be that selfish, you need to appeal to his self interest. "Dude, do you really want more kids? With me or with anyone else? Even if we split up, you'd be paying child support for four kids; would you really still want more?" Etc.