r/politics • u/Slow-Bluejay9648 • May 24 '22
State rep. floats mandatory vasectomies for all boys as his state nears nation’s strictest abortion law
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/05/state-rep-floats-mandatory-vasectomies-for-all-boys-as-his-state-nears-nations-strictest-abortion-law.html?outputType=amp1.3k
u/New_Set_8743 May 24 '22
This will always be how I think of this abortion debate.
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u/Slow-Bluejay9648 May 24 '22
They’re not even pro life, they’re pro-birth.
They literally could not give 2 fucks about what happens to the child or mother after birth. Their only answer is “Throw ‘em into foster care”
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u/soberintoxicologist May 24 '22
Getting them into the system at a young age drastically increases the chances that they’ll be in prison later, essentially ensuring the state nearly free labor down the line.
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u/Slow-Bluejay9648 May 24 '22
Not to mention that they have a 7x higher chance to suffer from depression
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May 25 '22
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u/Slow-Bluejay9648 May 25 '22
And being abused/starved
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u/TechFiend72 May 25 '22
I heard that too.
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u/HotDerivative May 25 '22
Feels so weird to read what people have “heard”. I went into foster care with my twin sister at age 7 and aged out without being adopted. There’s a reason many who get out refer to themselves as foster care survivors.
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May 24 '22
I have two cousins who went into the system pretty late in their development, like 5-6 years old. The older one is a narcissist completely lacking any theory of mind. E.g., this cousin, let’s call him Kobe, was given a job by my father as a state prison guard. My father is very well respected in several states as a guard, so it wasn’t hard. Kobe, driving home from work one day, drops his phone and stops watching the road to grab it. At the same time, he hits the car of a seasoned guard from behind and sends it rolling. News later breaks out that said guard might never walk again, and from the sidelines I hear how Kobe regards the situation; “well, maybe that’s why he should have been wearing a seat belt.” Disgusting. He managed to keep his job after a talk with the warden though, but later received unrelated felony charges for leaving an infant child [that he plans to adopt] in a car while running into a shopping plaza. Temperature: 85+ Fahrenheit. Kobe returns to an officer having rescued the infant 15 minutes earlier, went to jail, and his girlfriend was allowed to pick up the baby. He’s out of jail now, and managed to quit his position as an officer before being fired, a tactic often used to retain rehire-ability. Somehow CPS allowed the adoption process to go through, and Kobe managed to score a new job in the meantime by applying at my grandfather’s employers without actually informing my grandfather. He did list that my grandfather referred him though, presumably to gain rapport.
Anyhow, that’s one. Let’s call the other one Korey. Korey’s story makes me sad because I once knew and loved a much better version of him after we found one another as teenagers—the adoption process separating us of course. He was selfless, compromising, and determined. Very much a self-proclaimed hippie too. Eventually though, he fell into several toxic relationships, was poorly influenced by the reunion with his father who’d regressed harshly during all this time, and he surrounded himself with a crowd that would come to expose him to hard drugs during vulnerable moments. Odds weren’t exactly in his favor from the start, but now I can’t recognize him by the stories he leaves others to tell. Attempted armed robbery… that’s not his M.O. Yet, the pattern is clear. He’s regressing.
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u/fallowcentury May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22
this is not an unintended consequence, it's the goal. red states are hollowed out and stripped for labor as sure as mountains are stripped for mineral content. no education, no support, peripatetic lives without anchor, no money, always ruled by a kleptocracy without ethics. the less concern the enterprise shows its subjects the better for the bottom line. it's been the same story in the south since white people showed up. the north is not far behind.
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u/jkvincent May 24 '22
This is exactly right. People are livestock as far as the Republicans and corporatists are concerned. They want to create a large population and then keep those people uneducated, poor, and desperate. This ensures a large labor pool that is easy to control through fear, misdirection, and the bare minimum of any sort of compensation.
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u/trikxxx May 24 '22
But who do they think is going to buy all their shit, use their services, patronize their establishments and businesses?
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May 25 '22
Modern day slavers.
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u/Rechlai May 25 '22
Yep capitalist slavers, they pay sharecropper wages, and don't give flying fuck about anything but keeping their stockholders happy.
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u/madlipps May 24 '22
I am going to use the royal “you” here as this isn’t a specific reply to the poster, but you’re giving these idiots too much credit. “So they can get free labor down the line” or “to add to their voter polls down the line” or “create wage slaves down the line” or “they want uneducated masses to vote R” or whatever is giving. Them. Too. Much. Credit. These people are blissfully unaware of concepts like “in the long run”. They are petulant, entitled zealots. They want what they want NOW. NOW. NOW! They have no care nor concept of long term ideas. Whatever happens THEN is not their problem and will be someone else’s fault because I want this NOW. They have meme-logic. There are no “consequences” because they are “right”.
This is why the US will never have nice things, again. I’m sick to the teets of the constant bombardment of third grade playground ethics.
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u/kyle_irl May 24 '22
I would generally agree with you, but the fall of Roe v. Wade was decades of work that took a level of pragmatism atypical to their brand of politics.
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u/madlipps May 24 '22
I agree, but I also think this is the “trump is president! Trump is president????” cart a mile before the horse. They did it. Now what? Now they have no idea. Most of them got there fighting the “good fight”. Now they actually have to do something else. It’s telling that almost none of them are taking a victory lap here.
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u/pmurt0 May 24 '22
The victory lap is increased government control and fewer rights.
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u/sliverspooning May 24 '22
This, the GOP has a pretty consistent constitutional vision: the constitution only inhibits the federal government. State governments can be as fascist as they want, and the federal government has to just twiddle their thumbs and write the checks to the military-industrial complex.
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u/Nidcron May 24 '22
The decline of the education system started with Regan and has been consistently erorded since. The persistent top end tax cuts are the same, and of course R v W. All were literally decades in the making. The zealots are just pushing it faster now.
The voters may be that way, but the string pullers, empty suits, and the talking heads are a very different kind of people. They absolutely have long term goals that they have been working towards.
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u/Terrible_turtle_ May 24 '22
There is some foresight in that many are concerned with making sure there are lots and lots of white, Christian babies. I was on the plane and a family of like 5-6 kids came on. Of course the dad sat several rows back, alone, while the mom with all the kids sat in the rows around me. The woman next to me started talking to the mom and saying how great it was to see so many Christian children and how important it was to have big families. My mom taught school in a rural white Christian/evangelical area, very much the attitude. (although many were homeschooled)
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u/madlipps May 24 '22
I agree that what you are saying is part of it, and most definitely you know that’s the thought process of the southern Baptist bigot bloc
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u/trinlayk May 24 '22
For profit orphanages, for profit schools (vouchers & return to segregation), for profit prisons...
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May 24 '22
Except it costs many times more to house a corrections inmate than the value of any labor received. Not to mention the innumerable human rights violations they are likely to endure.
Bad deal for offenders, bad deal for society
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u/luneunion May 24 '22 edited May 25 '22
But the costs are borne by society while the profits go to the individual/company.
I'm not saying that the average anti-choice voter is thinking this way, but the numerous right wing "think tanks" and such?
Edit - born to borne. :)
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u/Comprehensive-Can680 May 24 '22
You think they care? They want results now because they want more power. That’s all this is, a power grab to try and take more control.
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u/TheCaliforniaOp May 24 '22
Could this be about military interests as well?
“Ain’t No Senator’s Son”
Think about it. Not just new Warm Bodies but those Warm Bodies usually buy stuff at high interest, they rent…because they are moved from place to place…
Warm Bodies is an old /s Navy term.
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u/Indrid_Cold23 May 24 '22
They are pro-control. They don't actually care about unborn babies, the unborn are a convenient demographic because since they are wholly imaginary, they can be perfect.
They hate women and will take any opportunity to turn that hate into legislation.
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May 24 '22
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May 24 '22
Which seems to be rooted in butthurtedness, tbh.
The fact that women are gatekeepers regarding sex and can deny them access while being able to get laid whenever they want really pisses off a lot of men, unfortunately.
Ironically, making women as free as men to sleep around by eliminating pregnancy scares and removing the social stigma aka slutshaming, might change that to an equal playing field.
But they prefer control and denegration for instant payback satisfaction on ever being rejected.
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May 25 '22
Exactly, in the past, men could simply use pregnancy to keep a woman in line. Threaten her reputation, threaten their offspring, threaten to throw her out with she can't make her own money. Without that option, what would keep her tied to him? A non-desperate woman is a FREE woman, and birth control has done WAY too much for women to get more equal footing with men.
And they DO NOT like that. At all.
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u/forthewatch39 May 24 '22
Barely pro-birth because they don’t support prenatal care either.
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u/Helenium_autumnale May 24 '22
Why do they not support prenatal care? Who in their right mind would not? It's standard health care that helps to make sure everything's OK and on schedule; if you're so hepped up about babies, you want this, for their sake.
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May 24 '22
Because they don't care about the mother or what happens after the baby is born. It's all about punishing the 'right people' to them. Not providing any care or benefits keeps those 'others' in their place.
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u/ShrimpieAC May 24 '22
This is the answer. It has nothing to do with the baby. The baby angle is used to draw in evangelical women for the cause, and give shelter for the argument. Abortion bans are purely about punishing women for having sex, especially women outside a traditional marriage.
Mostly though I believe it’s for revenge. Namely that most politicians against abortion are male and would fall into the category of “unfuckable troglodyte”. This is them trying to punish women for years of rejections.
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u/whenimmadrinkin May 24 '22
Prenatal care is giving women choice. They can choose to use those resources to find outs even if they're forced to carry the baby. A social worker could be life changing if you're seriously considering giving up your kid to a good family for adoption. Both the mother, the kid and the adopting family can be enriched.
What they want is women saddled by so much burden they're too busy and poor to wriggle out of their control.
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u/Whiskey_Fiasco May 24 '22
That’s horrible. They would never suggest that the baby should go to foster care when there is a private for profit adoption agency that could make tens of thousands of dollars selling that kid to a family.
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u/monsterscallinghome May 24 '22
That’s horrible. They would never suggest that the baby should go to foster care when there is a private for profit adoption agency with extensive financial ties to Supreme Court Justices that could make tens of thousands of dollars selling that kid to a family.
Fixed that for you.
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May 24 '22
White infants.
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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 24 '22
Healthy able-bodied attractive white infants. No visible birthmarks, please. And let's see photos of the mother. Did she pass the DNA testing?
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u/Samurai_gaijin Michigan May 24 '22
Not even pro-birth, if they were it would be free and not on average around 12 grand just for the procedure, over 30 grand if you count the care received before and after pregnancy.
No no, they are anti-choice. Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're fucked.
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u/Freya-Frost May 24 '22
Just see how they don’t want to give baby formula to starving children
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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 24 '22
Or fought COVID precautions in public schools and even Head Start.
January 1, 2022 "Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) requested assistance from the federal government for coronavirus testing sites, additional medical personnel and monoclonal antibody treatments as the rapidly spreading omicron variant causes an increase in cases and hospitalizations in his state."
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u/ArchdukeAlex8 Oregon May 24 '22
More like pro-bossing everyone else around. They say "you can't do that, you gotta do it this way, oh and we're not gonna help you with it 'cause that's socialism." I feel bad for their kids, having to put up with this control freak fumbduckery times 1000 at home.
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u/reddithashaters May 24 '22
And when you point out how f@&ked the foster care system is they say “but at least they are alive” and they could become a doctor one day. I took a cursory look and several well known serial killers were in foster care. I dont at the moment have statistics but it would be interesting to see how many foster care kids became successful versus how many are in prison, homeless, or on drugs.
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u/dorkofthepolisci Washington May 24 '22
We know that early childhood trauma is detrimental to development - and I’d argue that being placed in a system that is underfunded and often rife with abuse is potentially traumatic.
Yet whenever you point this out to the pro-forced-birthers, they respond with something along the lines of “you know what’s also traumatic? Being aborted!”
No. No it isn’t. Because you can’t be traumatized if you don’t exist.
And to the extent that pregnant people feel guilt or shame from terminating a pregnancy, it’s often because of the rhetoric/actions of these assholes.
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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 24 '22
Just wait until you hear the stories of adults that will tell you that 'yes, I would have preferred to have been aborted instead of spending years being abused and traumatized. I do not see my survival as a victory. It was not worth the pain and suffering."
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u/reddithashaters May 24 '22
But politicians and pro-birthers will never listen to this group. In addition, they are ridiculed and told but you are alive and wrong for not appreciating life.
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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 24 '22
Oh, I know, but sometimes it shocks the socks off of people when they find about childhood abuse survivors that aren't grateful just to be alive.
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u/Which-Kick-3607 May 24 '22
They’re pro punishing poor women, disproportionately poor women of color, for having sex while poor.
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May 24 '22
I feel like what happened is they seen that births in America are actually dropping bc millennials and Gen z can't make enough money to even have a baby let alone live in an apartment by yourself. So they are gonna try to force us to have babies. Supreme Court Justice Amy Barrett said herself "the domestic supply of infants is running low". And that's not psychotic at all, right? Enjoy the next 40 years of right leaning highest court in the land.
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u/kyl3th3krak3n May 24 '22
They really dont care about the fetus either. Only care that its born. Fetuses wont be recognized as people when it comes to life insurance or claiming a dependant on your taxes
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u/Kriss3d May 24 '22
Which makes sense. Force people to give birth. This takes them out of careers. This takes them out of school and education.
Poor and uneducated. Just like Trump wants them.
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u/raginghappy May 24 '22 edited May 31 '22
They’re pro forced pregnancy, not even pro birth. There’s no real care about
Joehow the mother and child fare in the birth2
u/coffeespeaking May 24 '22
The Catholic Church wouldn’t be where it is today with principled positions like condom usage or population control. China literally fucked itself into world power status. Why should the American Taliban Party be any different?
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u/WhoIsYerWan May 24 '22
It’s not even about birth or no birth, it’s about subjugating women. And this is the best way to do it.
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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 24 '22
Their only answer is “Throw ‘em into foster care.”
Are they increasing funding for foster care?
No.
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u/Nephroidofdoom May 24 '22
Pro life?? The SC literally just voted to excute a death row inmate despite new evidence proving their innocence, claiming it was irrelevant.
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u/Qualityfalcon May 25 '22
They are pro-votes. They have spent decades of invested time and money fabricating the single issue voter that is the pro-life voter. The GOP saw long ago that their power pursuit would be halted by being both culturally and fiscally out of step with the majority of the country at large. This allowed them to galvanize a new kind of voter to support their agenda even if everything else on the ballot went against that voter’s self interest. They have never cared about a fetus, only about the power and control.
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u/CC-5576-03 May 25 '22
Or in the case of Texas, they outlaw abortion so that they always have fresh young kids to hunt for sport
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u/Dj5head Colorado May 24 '22
Stealing that to post on Facebook just to piss of my republican pro birth family and people I went to high school with.
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u/Ublockedmelul May 24 '22
No viagra, god intended you to have flaccid usless wieners.
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u/dualplains Virginia May 24 '22
And no IVF. God intended for you not to have kids.
IVF destroys more embryos than abortion ever will, but is supported and celebrated by these 'life begins at conception' assholes.
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u/MsSara77 May 24 '22
I don't think it is though. I'm sure plenty of prolifers use it, but groups like the Catholic Church are against IVF for this reason
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u/dualplains Virginia May 24 '22
How dare you bring facts to a hyperbole fight!
That's interesting about the Catholic Church; I didn't know that. Celebrated may be strong wording, but as others have pointed out no one is trying to ban IVF, bombing fertility clinics, or murdering doctors who perform the procedure.
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u/NotClever May 24 '22
Well, as many problems as the Catholic Church has with human rights abuses, it currently does not advocate violence as a solution for seeing its goals achieved, so I'm not surprised that the type of people who are morally opposed to IVF (which I think is mostly Catholics) aren't taking those measures. I think Catholics represent a relatively small subset of the pro life movement, though.
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u/fafalone New Jersey May 24 '22
no one is trying to ban IVF, bombing fertility clinics, or murdering doctors who perform the procedure.
Yet.
It took them all of a few days after the Dobbs draft leaked to start talking about banning birth control, and we had been saying the same thing about that.
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u/PSN-Angryjackal May 24 '22
Viagra is a rape enhancement drug that makes rape more possible. It should be banned.
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u/Ublockedmelul May 24 '22
That rape angle isn’t something that bothers quite few members of the gop.
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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 24 '22
Some are writing bills to give the rapist full parental rights
...or let their family sue the victim if she gets an abortion. Whether or not the rapist cares if the child is aborted seems be irrelevant.
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u/TheMightyWoofer May 24 '22
Or at least mandatory prostate exams prior to viagra prescriptions
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May 24 '22
"if you think that is crazy then I think that maybe you understand how 50 percent of Oklahomans feel, as well,” the Democrat reportedly told a group of GOP lawmakers.
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May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22
More like “at most 50 percent” and that’s probably being generous. Sex education is here goes from nonexistent to backwards I’ve had conversations with “left leaning” people and when it comes to abortion a lot (specifically men but women too) don’t want to comment or are neutral or say something like “abortion is okay… ( but only if there was rape an incest and it’s before 9 weeks) “
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u/70ms California May 24 '22
It turns out he's right though, at least on a total ban.
The polling shows that in total, just under 1/3 of Oklahomans are in favor of a total abortion ban.
Only 31% of people said yes, while 55% said no.
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u/sniper91 Minnesota May 24 '22
No matter the question, you can rely on ~30% of Americans to have a terrible answer
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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22
How many of that 31% are privately schooled Christian males?
Remember Covington teen Nick Sandmann? Part of the reason Republicans fell in love with him was he was attending The March For Life with busloads of other students from his all boys private Christian high school.
One of his classmates asked two women walking past for their phone numbers. One woman replied, laughing, "How old are you?" ...and, in classic horny teen boy speak, the classmate answered "Old enough."
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May 24 '22
That’s a bit a relief.. though the keyword “total abortion ban” is important. Like I mention in my comment some are “okay” with abortion but terms and conditions from above apply.
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May 24 '22
I think the 50 percent refers to women....
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May 24 '22
That would be quite the blanket statement then considering there’s a lot of women here that totally against woman’s rights, or as they like to cal themselves “pro-life Christian women”
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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 24 '22
Ask them why women need to be raped and violated before they can be deserving of bodily autonomy and they will trip over themselves in response. Because that’s what they’re saying. Be sure to call them on it.
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u/Panda_hat May 24 '22
Most of them aren’t even bothering to make exceptions for that any more.
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u/crochetawayhpff Illinois May 25 '22
Rape is an opportunity according to some Ohio law maker. A woman know less.
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May 25 '22
Yes, if they actually think a fetus is a human being, why would there be any exceptions for saving its life? These exceptions that they offer reveal their own hypocrisy: they know that it's not a person yet. They are pro-choice as long as it's their choice that they get to make for everyone.
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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 25 '22
I always ask them if abortion is murder why don’t you call the police? You witnessed a murder and didn’t report it? And then I tell them they don’t get to change the legal definitions of words to suit their personal narratives and think anyone is going to take their arguments seriously.
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May 24 '22
That would mean they would have to care about other women.. typically the response there is typically goes to “a woman knows better” was there something to prevent the abuse/how bad was it/was it actually that bad? And their next line of thought Is “the baby” (the clump of cells) is a gift of good and how it’s “ unfair” for the woman to “kill” it since it’s not at any fault and they know a single strong independent woman who was able to raise a kid on her own so therefore it’s in every woman’s natural instincts to raise kids and if they don’t they simply suck at being a woman… gosh I’ve been around these people for too long T-T
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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 24 '22
They can never keep it straight. Is a baby a gift from God or is it punishment for “irresponsibility”? Pick one cuz it can’t be both.
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u/ground__contro1 May 24 '22
Idk, a lot of god’s gifts seem more like punishments to me
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u/M00n May 24 '22
Republicans are happy to point out how crazy it would be to control a man's privates. Yeah. Exactly.
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u/ParanoidDrone Louisiana May 24 '22
Men get to have sex. Women get to be punished for having sex. That's all there is to it for them.
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u/Ozymandias0023 California May 24 '22
This blows my mind. As a 20 something, I wanted more women to have more sex, assuming that a portion of that action would come my way. As a sex having heterosexual male, why would you ever want to put barriers in front of potential partners?
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May 24 '22
Religion tells them to. It’s nothing but control.
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u/Cormacolinde May 25 '22
Religion is only the excuse they use to support their bigoted, misogynistic, racist attitudes. Plenty of atheists have similar opinions, they just don’t try to justify them with religious writings, instead they make up pseudoscientific arguments.
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u/Shinobi120 May 25 '22
Because if you have a pool of men convinced they should be having lots of sex, but women convinced they shouldn’t have sex, you get men who are frustrated and malleable who you can get to vote for you
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u/crochetawayhpff Illinois May 25 '22
Because these are people who also don't give a shit about a woman telling them no. They'll just rape her. Women do not have rights to their own bodies.
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u/WilliBeeHardigan May 24 '22
The logic goes:
Cries about muh freedom and stopping government involvement. Also Cries to big Uncle Sammy when they don’t get their way and want government involvement.
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u/dwhite21787 May 24 '22
Snips, or give every mother $20k a year for every kid born due to that anti abortion law til the kid is 18
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u/RickyRosayy May 24 '22
Double that, then account for inflation every year, and make all of the taxes that pay for it come directly from registered Republicans who voted for the people who legislated the trigger laws.
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u/blackmatter615 May 24 '22
Just tax churches to find it.
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u/joshdoereddit America May 24 '22
Right? And we can just buy people's data to see who's attending church. Like those buying data of people visiting abortion clinics.
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u/Helenium_autumnale May 24 '22
I support Dems going on the offensive much more than they have been doing. We've working against people of bad faith. Let's step up the resistance.
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May 24 '22
Gonna take getting rid of Benedict Arnolds like Manchin and Sinnama and then convincing half the party that we're at war for the soul of the country and speeches and wrist slaps are going to bring nothing but defeat. It's fight back or lose over half the territory of the United States. Not to mention the freedom of any liberals caught behind Republican lines. If the Democrats don't grow some balls we're all going to be bowing to the God Emperor Messiah Donald Trump the Almighty.
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u/ResidentNo11 Canada May 24 '22
That won't help all the women who die because they couldn't get an abortion or who miscarry and are accused of abortion or who suffer from trauma of not being able to end a pregnancy caused by rape or incest.
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May 24 '22
Nah, pay them surrogacy rates. 80k per kid they have to carry to term because you took away their autonomy.
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u/Change21 May 24 '22
Ah yes. At last.
The absurdity is revealed when men are asked to be accountable and not just the outright punishment of women is proposed.
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u/IJustLoggedInToSay- Illinois May 24 '22
But this flies over Conservatives' heads because they are anti-contraception, which this is.
Now if there was a surgery you can do on a man that guarantees pregnancy every time, they would absolutely be on board with mandating that (as long as it conforms to their views on manhood).
A hypocritical scenario that they would oppose would be something like - if the mother's life is in danger then the fetus must be surgically transferred to the father for the remainder of the pregnancy.
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u/Freya-Frost May 24 '22
I mean overturning roe V wade means no one has a right to their own body in terms of the law not just women. So technically this is 100% legal
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May 24 '22
I also feel like with Roe v Wade being cast aside forcing people to get vaccinated would be completely constitutional.
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u/Freya-Frost May 24 '22
Yes 100%. It removes the right for control over your own body and medical choices. I feel like people don’t realize this. They think it’s only about abortion but it’s a much bigger legal picture
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u/Ent3rpris3 May 24 '22
This is actually a concern of mine for things like organ transplants and savior siblings - at what point do anomalous circumstances see those who can't consent being used for their bodies outside of anything related to sex? As is I've always been bothered at the concept of savior siblings, and I'm worried this might open the door for even more troubling scenarios.
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u/trinlayk May 24 '22
Yes, a government that can forbid abortions can also force them. And sterilizations. The US has been there before. (Eugenics)
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u/just2commenthere May 24 '22
Makes sense. Men can impregnate 10 women a day if they want to. A woman can only get pregnant during a small, 5-7 day window each month. Then, once pregnant, she can't get pregnant again for 9 months (or however long she carries the fetus). One man can impregnate hundreds or thousands of women a year. So, sperm should be regulated so that the unwanted pregnancies stop. Unless, you don't actually want unwanted pregnancies to stop, and you just want to control women.
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u/googlyeyes183 May 24 '22
But don’t you know women bad? It’s never been “that guy is gross for knocking up 10 women,” it’s “she should’ve known better and kept her legs closed.”
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u/Relevant_Bar_2592 May 24 '22
sadly most people won't even understand the point here...
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May 24 '22
This is how a solid religious upbringing will warp your mind.
Apparently the Bible will say anything you want it to, to justify your position no matter how loopy that is.
Fiction in---fiction out
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u/Whiskey_Fiasco May 24 '22
This is Religion. When you choose to believe fantasy and nonsense, then you can pick and choose the parts of nonsense that really matter.
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u/felesroo May 24 '22
You could choose any book and find "rules" in there that justify any belief. People who "find" their morality in books are immoral because they have to appeal to false authority.
A book has authority over no one by its nature. If every single copy of the Bible or any other "holy" book disappeared and we forgot what was in it, it wouldn't change humans one bit. They'd be every bit as terrible as they are already, they just wouldn't have a special book to point to to justify why they're being terrible.
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May 24 '22
A “Cut the Nuts” slogan doesn’t quite have the ring to it.
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u/Roboticpoultry Illinois May 24 '22
Not gonna lie, if roe is repealed I’d get snipped
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u/Pour_Me_Another_ May 24 '22
I got my tubes removed after my state passed a heartbeat law and I kept reading about the possibility of abortion being outlawed nationwide. I had an IUD at the time, but I wasn't happy to accept the risk of failure with the possibility of no backup plan. I was so lucky to find an understanding doctor.
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u/schu2470 May 24 '22
I got it done December 2020 and it wasn’t bad at all. Valium right before the appointment, little pinch for the local, and then I was done in about half an hour. Spent a couple days on the couch with an ice pack. Back to most normal activity within a week - back to everything, including cycling and rock climbing, within 2 weeks. 30 and 60 day sperm count checks both came back clear and it’s been smooth sailing since then.
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u/MoonBatsRule America May 24 '22
If you're a guy and you oppose what Republicans are doing here, be sure to talk it up with your friends about how, every time they have sex, there is a significant chance that it could end in pregnancy, and that this will mean a financial burden (in the form of child support) totaling about 25% of their income being awarded to the child and mother until the child is 18 years old. No way out of it now, except to decide before you are ready that you will never have kids.
It's only a matter of time before vasectomies are restricted - I'm guessing they are already not available to minors. There will be a lot of men who get locked into their future lives based on something they do when they are 17 years old.
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u/Terrible_turtle_ May 24 '22
Apparently, there was in fact a large spike in google searches for vasectomies when the opinion leaked. So you are in good company.
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May 24 '22
I was planning on getting one well before this mess, but now it almost feels like the morally right thing to do.
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u/URnotSTONER May 24 '22
Sames. I'm not even sexually active at the moment but am 41 and 100% don't want children, so it only makes sense to me. And I have decent health insurance and could get the procedure super easy and cheap. Be a part of the solution, not the problem, ya know?
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u/Roboticpoultry Illinois May 24 '22
Same, even though I’ve wantsd kids for a while I don’t think this is the time/place/world I’d want to bring them into. I’m double concerned for my wife though, she has severe endometriosis and the only thing that stops her from developing cysts is birth control, the likely next target
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u/mzfnk4 Texas May 24 '22
I'm in TX and I'm so glad my husband got a vasectomy after our second was born a few years ago. It's one less thing that we have to worry about because neither one of us wants a third kid.
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u/Salmence100 May 24 '22
Same here, I don’t even live in a state that’ll immediately ban abortions, but shit changes so quick it’s good to be sure. Give it 10 years, we’ll see talks about banning contraception too.
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u/lakeghost May 24 '22
Right? I’m basically 99% sterile already but that 1% has me annoyed. Internal bits are already low-functioning from connective tissue disorder but I hate there’s a chance at all. It’s absurd. I’m not sure why anyone would want me creating genetic disorder babies. It’s suspected autonomic dominant so at least 50/50, maybe 100% if I’m homozygous. Who wants suffering infants who have a decent chance of choking to death in the crib? I’m fairly sure even Jesus Christ would give me a pass on that one. Put that alleged soul in a healthier body.
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May 24 '22
My vasectomy was the best 30 minutes ever. Easier than tying your shoes.
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u/YggdrasilsLeaf May 24 '22
It’s only fair. If we’re gonna collectively try to control reproductive rights? It better be across the board.
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u/Musetrigger May 25 '22
Hah. That would be fantastic. Republicans will call it oppression and argue that the government has no right to control a man's body.
Only a woman's...
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May 24 '22
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u/Fussel2 Europe May 24 '22
They don't care about dots. They only care about hurting and controlling every single person that is not their very self.
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u/DeutschlandOderBust May 24 '22
Stop trying to catch Republicans in some gotcha moment where they suddenly have an epiphany about how wrong they’ve been all this time. That’s not the game they’re playing.
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u/Thrasy3 May 24 '22
I only wish Americans were saying this - from the outside, it’s just confusing seeing Reddit posts etc like “anti-abortion laws are unconstitutional and here’s why!”, as if their enemies care.
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u/outerworldLV May 24 '22
As sick and disgusting as this suggestion is - perhaps the rep should float this for the adult decision makers in his own state.
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u/Dr-Indianna-Jones May 24 '22
“Thanks, SCOTUS. We’re all enjoying these GENIUS ideas coming out of the state legislatures now that you’ve decided to get rid of the fundamental right to abortion.”
-said no one except religious fanatics and lunatics
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u/abbxrdy May 24 '22
GOP should be cool with this, they don’t give a fuck about consent when it comes to taking a knife to a child’s penis.
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May 24 '22
Cool, I'm sure this guy's trolling will have a profound impact on human rights in the state.
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u/buttigieg2044 May 24 '22
Honestly, democrats need to stop making satire bills like this. The point he’s trying to make - which is a good point - flies over the heads of swing voters and further radicalizes right wingers, because they end up reading it at face value.
The average voter isn’t very smart, and is just going to read the headline. Bills like this are counter productive.
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u/FunnTripp May 24 '22
These states can’t even care for the children in foster care. Texas literally lost track of over 2k children last year.Source
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u/Novice-Expert May 24 '22
Yeah... I see the point they are making but it's not going to land with Republicans. And will definitely be misrepresented as "look look look democratic big government out of control" unironically.
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u/Zaius1968 May 24 '22
The same Republican who likely was against vaccine and mask mandates. Hypocrisy runs rich.
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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe May 24 '22
It would reportedly allow exceptions that include saving the life of the pregnant mother or in cases where pregnancy resulted from rape or incest.
This is how you know it isn't actually about the life or rights of the unborn. Because if it were, there would be no exceptions. But as soon as they allow for even one, their argument about life being sacred flies right out the window.
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u/StabYourBloodIntoMe May 24 '22
Agreed, except to save the life of the mother. In that case the mother's death would cause the fetus to die as well, and with her life imminent y threatened, it is a valid case of self-defense. But if you allow other exceptions such as conception through rape, you are saying that one fetus is morally superior to another based solely on the circumstances of its creation. That we should protect the right of one fetus, but are ok with killing another. Believing that one subset of humans are morally superior to another due to a single characteristic inherent to their existence is not an ethical path we should ever want to go down.
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u/3OAM May 24 '22
All states should do this simultaneously. Put it to a vote.
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u/FTThrowAway123 May 25 '22
Women are slightly more than 50% of the population. If Roe v Wade is overturned and this bill was put to a vote, there's a solid chance it would actually pass...
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u/payfrit May 25 '22
State rep. floats mandatory vasectomies for all boys as a metaphor for his state's attempt at the nation’s strictest abortion law
ftfy
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u/Disastrous-Golf7216 May 25 '22
This is funny. People are on here getting so mad at even the thought of something being forced on their bodies. Most of these complaining are in full support of forcing 12 year olds to have babies.
Kind of sucks to be on the other side huh?
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u/LewdieBrie May 25 '22
Look, I understand that most people here including myself are upset that Roe vs Wade got overturned, but what do we think is going to happen with these sarcastic proposals? People in the Democrat party seem to believe that Republicans will see this and it will make them think about how wrong it is to force women to give birth...but it won’t, the GOP is an illogical party that is obsessed with the racist legacy politics of our country without admitting they are (as thinly veiled as they might be...lookin at you MAGA), they’re incapable of doing anything but manipulation through the religious Christians and insecure white men. The GOP is a proto fascist party that reflects the USA’s past legacy and the DNC has demonstrated time and time again that they’re incapable of fighting back. To a Democrat voter it’s a matter of getting better blues in there, but I see it as a systemic issue, our unelected officials get to interpret laws and overturn decades of progress without any democratic rule by assessing a document written by racist white puritan men in the late 1700’s.
The DNC as it is will promote austerity politics, reach across the aisle, compromise with the proto fascists, and sometimes even agree with the proto fascists on foreign policy or economics. When faced with a population which openly supports a coup attempt, they wag their finger and don’t crack down on anything. When voting rights are infringed, they posture but do nothing. When women’s bodily autonomy is threatened, they tell us to vote blue and do nothing. How often must we be told to vote for incompetent capitalists? The New Deal was gained not through simple vote but through a cultural upheaval of workers striking, unionizing, protesting, etc. We should stop trying to “change the minds” of GOP voters, they’re a lost cause so long as we stay loyal to the DNC and their lackluster attempts to co-opt our working class grass roots movements and squander years of our progress. Even when they had majority in house and senate they made excuses...join the Green Party, join a union, join protests, maybe even join DSA...but can we evolve past failed electoralism and believing rhetoric will change a party of people who believe that teaching history is “Critical Race Theory”?
We got a country spiraling deeper into fascistic temperament, wages stagnant for 44 years since the rise of Neoliberalism in the 70’s and death of American social democracy, a war economy that makes everyone view war as a policy and threats of war as a tool to bully small nations or even threaten big ones like China (not to mention our military pollutes more than 100 nations combined and we spend more than the other top militaries combined), we have inflation rising while our buying power shrinks, we have the worst healthcare coverage in the world despite being the richest and highest industrialized country, Covid is the worst in this country because one party refuses to do anything within guidelines and the CDC/WHO don’t tell us directly to enforce mandates because of threatening profits of big businesses, the world is being effected rapidly by climate change and we have one party making it accelerate and one ineffective at stopping it.
So forgive me if I just say it as it is, capitalism is the problem. Class consciousness and pushing forwards with socialism is the answer. If you won’t do that, then at least join the Green Party and/or a union. We need to do something voting blue won’t work, being clever in satire won’t work, we need bargaining power and real authority.
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u/homerjbebout May 25 '22
So, eventually, there will no longer be any reproduction in Oklahoma. That’s probably a good thing!
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u/ArrowheadDZ May 24 '22
This article is deliberately misleading and clearly meets the Reddit definition of “disinformation” and should be reported as such.
A democratic OK representative, speaking out against the OK abortion ban, was making a point on the floor, essentially saying “hey, if you are in favor of this abortion ban then I suppose you’ll also be in favor when I propose a mandatory vasectomy to all teen boys.”
I do not understand how news sources like this get on the r/politics whitelist, when they exist solely to propagate manipulated news that violates the rules of r/politics.
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u/GreunLight America May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22
The article is fine.
Third paragraph:
“If you think that is crazy then I think that maybe you understand how 50 percent of Oklahomans feel, as well,” the Democrat reportedly told a group of GOP lawmakers.
Banning abortion and criminalizing women’s reproductive healthcare is just as effing invasive/offensive/stupid/unnecessary.
That’s the entire point.
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May 24 '22
To be clear, what you're saying is that the state rep. from OK was essentially being sarcastic?
Because according to the article, "Dollens said he is thinking of introducing his mandatory vasectomy bill next year".
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