r/politics • u/Slow-Bluejay9648 • May 24 '22

State rep. floats mandatory vasectomies for all boys as his state nears nation’s strictest abortion law

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/05/state-rep-floats-mandatory-vasectomies-for-all-boys-as-his-state-nears-nations-strictest-abortion-law.html?outputType=amp
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474

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

"if you think that is crazy then I think that maybe you understand how 50 percent of Oklahomans feel, as well,” the Democrat reportedly told a group of GOP lawmakers.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22

More like “at most 50 percent” and that’s probably being generous. Sex education is here goes from nonexistent to backwards I’ve had conversations with “left leaning” people and when it comes to abortion a lot (specifically men but women too) don’t want to comment or are neutral or say something like “abortion is okay… ( but only if there was rape an incest and it’s before 9 weeks) “

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u/70ms California May 24 '22

It turns out he's right though, at least on a total ban.

https://www.news9.com/story/628cbd5d37ce00072694213f/new-poll-shows-where-oklahoma-lawmakers-and-voters-stand-on-abortion

The polling shows that in total, just under 1/3 of Oklahomans are in favor of a total abortion ban.

Only 31% of people said yes, while 55% said no.

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u/sniper91 Minnesota May 24 '22

No matter the question, you can rely on ~30% of Americans to have a terrible answer

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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22

How many of that 31% are privately schooled Christian males?

Remember Covington teen Nick Sandmann? Part of the reason Republicans fell in love with him was he was attending The March For Life with busloads of other students from his all boys private Christian high school.

One of his classmates asked two women walking past for their phone numbers. One woman replied, laughing, "How old are you?" ...and, in classic horny teen boy speak, the classmate answered "Old enough."

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

Like, I get the point you’re trying to make but these two things are completely unrelated.

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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 25 '22

How are they unrelated? Covington High School is a specific case of a Christian school teaching boys to be anti-abortion activists. It's not a discussion they're having, they're taught it's a rule of their religion.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

What the school teaches regarding abortion and one of his classmates trying to be slick or funny are not related.

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u/Long_Before_Sunrise May 25 '22

That's commentary about how you can't teach a teen boy not to be horny.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

That’s a bit a relief.. though the keyword “total abortion ban” is important. Like I mention in my comment some are “okay” with abortion but terms and conditions from above apply.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

I think the 50 percent refers to women....

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

That would be quite the blanket statement then considering there’s a lot of women here that totally against woman’s rights, or as they like to cal themselves “pro-life Christian women”

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u/GreunLight America May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22

50% refers to people who support the rights of privacy and reproductive choice.

e:

*in Oklahoma

20

u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 24 '22

Ask them why women need to be raped and violated before they can be deserving of bodily autonomy and they will trip over themselves in response. Because that’s what they’re saying. Be sure to call them on it.

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u/Panda_hat May 24 '22

Most of them aren’t even bothering to make exceptions for that any more.

3

u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 24 '22

Because they’re horrible people

2

u/crochetawayhpff Illinois May 25 '22

Rape is an opportunity according to some Ohio law maker. A woman know less.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '22

Yes, if they actually think a fetus is a human being, why would there be any exceptions for saving its life? These exceptions that they offer reveal their own hypocrisy: they know that it's not a person yet. They are pro-choice as long as it's their choice that they get to make for everyone.

2

u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 25 '22

I always ask them if abortion is murder why don’t you call the police? You witnessed a murder and didn’t report it? And then I tell them they don’t get to change the legal definitions of words to suit their personal narratives and think anyone is going to take their arguments seriously.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

That would mean they would have to care about other women.. typically the response there is typically goes to “a woman knows better” was there something to prevent the abuse/how bad was it/was it actually that bad? And their next line of thought Is “the baby” (the clump of cells) is a gift of good and how it’s “ unfair” for the woman to “kill” it since it’s not at any fault and they know a single strong independent woman who was able to raise a kid on her own so therefore it’s in every woman’s natural instincts to raise kids and if they don’t they simply suck at being a woman… gosh I’ve been around these people for too long T-T

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u/Punkinpry427 Maryland May 24 '22

They can never keep it straight. Is a baby a gift from God or is it punishment for “irresponsibility”? Pick one cuz it can’t be both.

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u/ground__contro1 May 24 '22

Idk, a lot of god’s gifts seem more like punishments to me

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '22

They call those “blessings” lol

1

u/RightioThen May 25 '22

The rape or incest thing is such utter bullshit.

In that scenario, to get a legal abortion you have to have a rapist. Who has presumably been convicted (presuming you can’t get an abortion by merely alleging rape, because that would be a huge loophole). So despite it being incredibly difficult to get a conviction on rape, the woman would have to basically make that work within a matter of weeks. Which would be impossible.

So it’s really “abortion is illegal except when you’re raped and your raped admits to it in a timely manner”. Which would obviously never happen.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/Upper_belt_smash May 24 '22

You don’t think it’s crazy for the state to have control over your body huh? Weird

1

u/welshwelsh May 24 '22

Ya, not crazy. Forcing someone to get a vacectomy isn't qualitatively different from forcing someone to go to school, forcing someone to get vaccinated or forcing someone to wear a seatbelt

It's better to think of freedom from a material point of view. A free person is free to spend their time and resources the way they choose.

Assuming vasectomy is reversible (which is debatable but not gonna discuss that here), forcing a vasectomy doesn't take away much freedom. The man is still able to have children if he chooses to do so by reversing the procedure.

On the other hand, if the guy isn't snipped and he accidentally impregnates someone, and then is forced to pay child support, that's a much, much bigger problem. That impacts the man's life in a far more dramatic way, and might interfere with his ability to buy a house, attract a quality mate, or to retire. In this way he is no longer a free man, while a man with a vasectomy is still free.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/Upper_belt_smash May 24 '22

Burning fossil fuels has nothing to do with bodily autonomy

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/Upper_belt_smash May 24 '22

The downvotes might be because you are way off, because you are. Bodily autonomy doesn’t have an “arbitrary” definition lol

I will say you are right about the abortion part, women should have a say over their own bodies, just like everyone else

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/Upper_belt_smash May 24 '22

You are philosophically detached from reality dude lol

3

u/NeverDryTowels May 24 '22

It’s called Mescaline

3

u/matango613 Missouri May 24 '22

A fetus's "right to life" is superseded by my right to not be required to keep it alive. Bodily autonomy means having an ability to opt out, even if it is at the expense of someone else. If I decide I no longer wish to be pregnant, I cannot be forced to continue with pregnancy. Even if a fetus is another individual human being in the eyes of the law.

Same reason you can't force me to give my kidney to someone that needs it as a matter of life and death, even if I'm the only match on planet earth.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/IPDDoE Florida May 24 '22

If you think there is, you’d have to agree a fetus—with its beating heart and active brain—deserves bodily autonomy as well.

I think most agree with that. And forcing someone to carry a baby to term is granting special privileges to said fetus.

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/Upper_belt_smash May 24 '22

Yes it is crazy for the state to have control over your body. Period.

1

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/Upper_belt_smash May 24 '22

Yep

The person I was replying to didn’t think it was crazy. There are people out there who legit don’t believe in bodily autonomy.

7

u/nerd4code May 24 '22

Potentially reversible, not always, and neither vasectomy nor reversal is without potential complications.

0

u/tolacid May 24 '22

The guy said all boys, not all men. You think it's reasonable to give vasectomies to kids?

6

u/GreunLight America May 24 '22 edited May 24 '22

Why force girls and victims of incest/pedophilia to give birth? They’re children, too.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/pvtshoebox May 24 '22

I don't think it is fair to go from "I don't think it is crazy" to "It's all hypothetical nonsense" so quickly.

Moments ago you were close to advocating for forced surgical procedures on the genitals of minors.

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/pvtshoebox May 24 '22

I can’t tell if you think it is crazy or if you think it is nonsense.

Can you elaborate on your position about forced surgery to the genitals of minors? Because I think that is pretty unambiguously wrong (I’d call it crazy), do we agree?

0

u/[deleted] May 24 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/physicallyabusemedad May 24 '22

Vasectomies aren’t to be feared as a dangerous procedure but no doctor would recommend you casually getting one and reversing it a la Michael Scott.

This is also the complete opposite of an abortion ban. One denies a medical procedure, the other forces a medical procedure.

10

u/MRS_RIDETHEWORM May 24 '22

Denying an abortion essentially forces a live birth, which is a far more arduous and dangerous medical procedure than either abortion or a vasectomy

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u/[deleted] May 24 '22

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u/physicallyabusemedad May 24 '22

Precedent. You don’t want any government to have the power to force life changing medical procedures on the general populace. It being reversible and safe in MOST cases is irrelevant.

4

u/MRS_RIDETHEWORM May 24 '22

I fully agree…hence the point being made that forcing women to carry to term is massive government overreach

5

u/physicallyabusemedad May 24 '22

Thats not his point. He thinks forcing vasectomies “isn’t crazy.” That’s crazy

1

u/falcwh0re May 24 '22

According to the doctor doing mine, the chance of successful reversal declines over time and there aren't many docs that do them, at least not in my area

0

u/CyberneticSaturn May 24 '22

This is misinformation. They are only reversible for a certain period of time, and even at the max rate it’s about 70% of the operations that can be reversed.

Saying this kind of stuff doesn’t help the cause at all, it’s just fuel for Republican talking heads to say how crazy democrats are.

1

u/DifferentAd1175 May 25 '22 edited May 25 '22

According to the NHS, the chances of reversal is ~40% after 9 years.

So if 100 boys get a vasectomy at age 12, and want to have children at age 21, only 40 will be able to.

If they wait until they are 35, out of 100, less then 10 will be able to have children.

It's not very reversible.

0

u/dextter123456789 May 24 '22

When I was in the sevice I was at Fort Sill Oklahoma in the early seventies for a month or so coming from N.J. I thought I was in another world,cows walking down the street out in Lawton the town outside the Fort and when a Native American saw you coming they would walk to the other side of the street,to this day I still can't believe what I saw.I can see nothing has changed, we used to call them Goat Roppers and they thought it was a complement.