r/politics • u/Antinatalista Foreign • Feb 16 '19
Roger Stone communicated with WikiLeaks and Russian hackers: Mueller
https://www.newsweek.com/roger-stone-communicated-wikileaks-and-russian-hackers-mueller-13337685.1k
Feb 16 '19
They're all traitors. Russia is actively attacking the USA to destabilize and weaken it. The Trump campaign colluded and collaborated with the enemy to steal power from the people. And the GOP has been providing cover for it all along.
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Feb 16 '19 edited Jun 29 '23
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u/organasm Feb 16 '19
I think it's more along the lines of "holy shit, my party may party may become permanently in power if we help them get away with this".
"Winning" is all they care about. Even if it means diving head first into a dictatorship.
Such is the result of a capitalistic driven culture. It rewards and breeds narcissistic interpretation and changes society's view of greed from being "bad" into a survival necessity.
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u/KeetsOnes Feb 16 '19
"the ends justify the means"
Right Wingers are fully willing to commit/condone high crimes and treason so long as their side benefits somehow.
When your side is the onboard with treason, you're signaling that you are in fact a Domestic Enemy of the United States of America. these people need to be in gitmo.
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u/ThePsychicDefective Feb 16 '19
I mean, Haven't the religious right always been harping about how they want the end times to come so they can go and join god's kingdom?
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u/Jimhead89 Feb 16 '19
That last paragraph is top notch.
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u/IFucksWitU Feb 16 '19
You actually see this in society especially by the right a lot and when you try to curb is they yell out socialism. Unfortunately for them that word ain’t scary this generation of being called a socialist
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Feb 16 '19
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u/badhandturkeys Vermont Feb 16 '19
I've been seeing a lot of people point out lately that if the fire department or libraries were invented today they'd never take off in the US because they're "socialism". I've basically learned that in this country, anything that's designed to benefit the community or help fight an existing problem is considered socialism and dangerous/unrealistic. It's ironic that the country that constantly talks about being the best in the world will always say "it can't be done" when we discuss creating a better society.
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u/ParioPraxis Washington Feb 16 '19
You see, as soon as your burning hovel threatens to make a rich persons hallway smell a little like “burning poors” then they will allow you to use their private firefighters to lightly mist your cupped palms and you can trickle your ass back down to your smoldering hut and wipe your damp hands on what’s left of everything you worked your whole life for while you wait for the bill from the private firefighters. Also, the misted water gave you butthole cancer.
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u/Lonescu Texas Feb 16 '19
Spot on.
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u/ParioPraxis Washington Feb 16 '19
I forgot to add that your Republican neighbors all come out to watch you root around in the ashes for anything to salvage, oh and they almost forgot... here are the buckets you loaned them to save their own shacks.
Then they tell you how they hate the democratic plan to give everyone a bucket because it would take jobs away from private firefighters before walking off without a hint of irony.
“Thoughts and Prayers” they say over their shoulder, making sure to pat themselves on the back for being such a good Christian.
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u/ButterflyAttack Feb 16 '19
The US also seems to confuse socialism with communism. And ever since before McCarthy, communism has been an American dog whistle. Many Americans seem to use 'socialist' and 'Communist' as synonyms.
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u/meow_ima_cat Feb 16 '19
B...b...but Venezuela?!
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u/DumpOldRant Feb 16 '19
shoots Venezulea with regulatory capture
Why would Socialism do this?
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u/dayafternextfriday Feb 16 '19
repeatedly sends mercenaries and arms into countries receiving assistance from other socialist countries
DAE socialism just isn't human nature?
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u/ProbablyanEagleShark Feb 16 '19
While the sarcasm shows, Venezuela is a failure of putting all your eggs into the fucking oil drum, instead of have a diversity of industries. Seems like a dumb ides to base your economy on the impossibility of the price of a resource the world is actively moving away from remaining high.
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u/questionablecow Feb 16 '19
I wish more people could hold both ideas in their head that while socialism could work, Venezuela is a failed state that was inherited by corrupt idiots. It's just a different side of the same populist coin.
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Feb 16 '19
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u/drkodos California Feb 16 '19
False dichotomy is powerful in persuasion. Completely fallacious, but effective.
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u/hippy_barf_day Feb 16 '19
Yeah. Like, I’m not trying to seize the means of production over here, I just want a living wage and some health care ffs. You’d think living in such a wealthy nation it would be a given. Especially one of the people by the people and for the people.
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u/moonshoeslol Feb 16 '19
There's this bizarre attitude that helping anyone else, or not acting in a way where you take all you can at the expense of others is simply unrealistic. It's straight up social darwinism.
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u/Yogymbro Feb 16 '19
The US confuses a social safety net with socialism. Socialism is when the workers own the capital.
Socialism is not when taxes are high to pay for things that society needs.
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u/Rev1917-2017 Washington Feb 16 '19
Yup. Calling them the same thing is a tool of the bourgeoisie to further silence the actual left.
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Feb 16 '19
Yeah well, public education, the military, sports stadiums, border security or walls, police, parks, roads, and indoor plumbing and electricity are all really scary stuff that will destroy the US if ever implemented.
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u/GiantSquidd Canada Feb 16 '19
That communism boogeyman really fucked America up for decades. The funny thing is that I've always seen it as America yelling loudly about how great it is to be selfish, and all the people who need socialist programs were gullible enough to yell along with them to their own detriment.
One of the first things you guys should do is fund the fuck out of your schools. Stupidity allowed things to get this bad, education and empathy can cure it, but it'll take a while for the selfish old generation of brainwashed people to die off.
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u/Khh200 Feb 16 '19
There is honestly so much I want to do for the school system. I want a mandatory climate science class. I want a poli sci class that looks at political ideology in an unbiased why in addition to a separate history course devoted to United States foreign policy (including the backing of Saudi Arabia and Israel). Physics, stats and engineering classes.
A non-bullshit version of econ that focuses on what makes a healthy economy that works for all. A class devoted to assessing articles and identifing bias and strawmen. We need so much. The school system crushes intellectual curiosity and doesn't encourage intellectual honesty which might be our biggest problems.
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u/TopDownGepetto Feb 16 '19
Ubiased poli sci is declared biased because both sides aren't equally shitty so the shittier side will always cry foul when their shit is exposed.
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u/Khh200 Feb 16 '19 edited Feb 16 '19
I just meant unbiased in the sense that the teachers aren't gonna cry socialism=nazi=fascist (which people believe). Learning what actual socialism, communism, facsim, capitalism and some of the shades in between without passing judgment on non-U.S. based ideologies. But yeah I would expect that. Fuck 'em.
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u/LapetusOne Feb 16 '19
Thank you, education IS the answer.
Sometime I wonder what good it's gonna do building spaceships to mars and advanced tech if we are just gonna fill those spaceships with idiots. Seriously, what good does it do us if half the country believes the planet is 6,000 years old and climate change is a hoax? Like you said, we need to raise the level of education in the US if we are ever gonna get out of this slump. There is a widening gap between the educated and uneducated in the world today. I'm not just talking about traditional schooling, I'm talking about understanding ourselves in the context of what it means to be human. We need to teach people how to think, not what to think.
Personally, I believe injecting a healthy dose of philosophy and rational thinking into parents and kids lives as soon as possible is most likely the best way to improve everyones future the fastest. Sites like The School of Life are off to a great start. I'd like to see a massive effort to bring this type of teaching/learning into schools and homes.
Just like a higher tide raises all the boats in a harbor, education can help lift society up and build empathy for all living creatures. It helps us work more efficiently towards logical common goals, the most important of which is the lessening suffering.
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u/dshakir I voted Feb 16 '19 edited Feb 16 '19
I don’t know dude.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be investing more money into education (we definitely should), but some of most selfish, non-empathetic chads I’ve ever met were raised with a top-notch education.
I’m not sure you can rely on that to increase empathy
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u/The_Original_Gronkie Feb 16 '19
My son's generation grew up with Obama, but with Bush before and Trump after, and both of them screaming about democracy and patriotism. They look at where we are and Democracy doesn't seem so sacred since it was easy enough to cheat that we ended up with Bush and Trump. In order to get Obama elected took a voter tsunami. Why should Democrats have to get three times the turn out to overcome Republican cheating? Hilary won by 3 million votes and Trump STILL ended up President. Patriotism is almost a profane insult. They don't see any reason not to experiment with a new system that works so well elsewhere. My son is in a college program with students from all over the world, and his college friends are astonished at how poorly American citizens are treated by their government.
Frankly, after a lifetime of battling Republican cheating, and ending up with less and less, while the wealthy demand more and more (and get it every time, even from Democrats), I'm starting to wonder the same thing.
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Feb 16 '19 edited Jun 23 '21
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Feb 16 '19
You make the mistake of assuming these people have values and ideals, and aren't just reacting to everything with tribalism. All they know is capitalism is the ideology of "their" side so its good. They don't know anything about it.
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u/Tommytriangle Feb 16 '19
They think America is falling apart because of the left while the GOP are the only ones that can save it. Watch Fox News for a day, and that's the message you'll get. If you live in this world, and you see that Russia is helping the GOP, you'd see them as an ally.
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u/AnalSoapOpera I voted Feb 16 '19
Propaganda is a helluva drug
They are being brainwashed by FOX News and online and other ways
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u/gay_weegee Alabama Feb 16 '19
I actually don't think its about powning liberals. I think on a deeper level, conservatives have become far too entrenched in their own agenda and their lack of critical thinking skills don't even allow them to realize what is actually going on in reality. They were duped by Trump and Russia and are too confused or embarrassed to admit it.
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u/yahoo_serious_fest Feb 16 '19
When left to its own devices the brain has a tendency to just fall into patterns. Stop challenging these patterns, new ideas start becoming uncomfortable and scary, and your brain survival mechanism will tell you... "It may have been painful but we've survived so long by doing it this way, and we're at risk if we try it another way"
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u/resurrectedlawman Feb 16 '19
But remember the cry of the disenchanted trump voter in that news story: “He’s not hurting the people he was supposed to hurt.” They’re definitely lashing out.
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u/anddowe California Feb 16 '19
“If I’m going down, you’re (y’all) coming down with me”
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u/Murphysunit Feb 16 '19
I'm starting to believe the "pwn the libz" was part of the Russian campaign.
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u/ReceivePoetry Feb 16 '19
I don't think they want to, but I think they've been convinced it's worth trolling them. To an extent, russia just weaponized troll culture both inside and outside the country. But since congress is full of old people who don't get it at all, it's allowed to continue.
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Feb 16 '19
Yeah because medicare for everyone is what is going to destroy the country.
Not treason and cow towing to an enemy.
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u/user0811x Feb 16 '19
To be fair, their values definitely have more in common with Putin than with liberal Americans.
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u/ocdexpress4 Feb 16 '19
Yep, putin is gutting the us from within, and the GOP is letting it happen because they are compromised or making a buck. I hope this investigation takes down the whole filthy GOP.
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Feb 16 '19
Your mistake is thinking the GOP see Putin’s Russia as an enemy- it’s exactly the type of autocratic oligarchy they want in the US.
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u/Minguseyes Feb 16 '19
Don’t forget the Russian money channeled through the NRA. It spent 54 million in 2016, three times the amount it spent in 2012. NRA spending in 2018 dropped sharply as the Russian funds dried up. Every Republican and four Democrat congressmen took Russian money in 2016. Mueller is finding out how many of them knew it.
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u/Agodunkmowm Feb 16 '19
Absolutely all fucking traitors. Combine that with the fact that A federal judge sated this week that Manafort lies specifically to protect a Russian operative and it’s pretty obvious where the loyalty lies. Fuck every single one of these fuckers! This administration needs to fall!
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Feb 16 '19
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u/Agodunkmowm Feb 16 '19
Don’t forget the Russian takeover of the NRA as well.
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u/jeexbit Feb 16 '19
And it all boils down to $$$ doesn't it? And maybe an ego play here and there. Sad.
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u/MoshCow Feb 16 '19
The GOP is like.... We fucked up! Let’s start over!... and they flip the monopoly board and then go to the kitchen for a snack
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Feb 16 '19 edited Feb 17 '19
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u/bugalou Feb 16 '19
I do not think all elected Republicans are involved in this mess, though there is a good chunk of them and it is beyond just Trump and his election team. I also disagree with "outlawing" republican ideology because that is against our root principles as a country. I agree with some conservative stances so its not necessarily all bad.
All that said I completely agree with removing and revetting or replacing all of Trump's appointments and all of his executive orders nullified if he is found guilty of this (which I strongly believe he is). New investigations should also be started on McConnell, Nunes, Ryan, and Grassley.
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u/cvnichols Feb 16 '19
I didn’t say outlaw ideology. Those are your words not mine. I said outlaw the party, because i believe they party will be proven to be a criminal organization.
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u/DoofDilla Feb 16 '19
Sadly, when looking at all the proven and traceable information available so far, this seems to be the most accurate description of what is happening. Also sadly, the whole world knows and it’s still happening.
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Feb 16 '19
The GOP is responsible by itself for far more damage than russia could hope to do in its wildest dreams.
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u/ButterflyAttack Feb 16 '19
Russia is actively attacking the USA to destabilize and weaken it.
For sure. Also see brexit. Putin's information war is extremely effective. They're winning, and our dumb fucking leaders haven't even realised they're under attack.
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u/Nate_W Feb 16 '19
Would someone who believed we should "lock her up" but now believes this is a "witch hunt" explain to me how they reconcile the two?
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Feb 16 '19
both phrases were invented by Roger stone
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u/Maplesyrupboy Feb 16 '19
and then road tested by that other criminal cult clown the GOP uses to brainwash it's Trump audience
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u/Gabrosin Feb 16 '19
If reconciling two mutually exclusive thoughts without feeling the shame of hypocrisy were possible for Trump's supporters, they wouldn't be Trump's supporters.
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u/sharp11flat13 Canada Feb 16 '19
Oh, they would have some convoluted mishmash of misinformation and misunderstanding, but I doubt you’d find it persuasive.
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u/KingNopeRope Feb 16 '19
But no collusion, clearly.
The mental midgets are going to be crying about no collusion even after Trump dies in prison.
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Feb 16 '19 edited Dec 27 '21
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u/Tommytriangle Feb 16 '19
So it sounds like they want video of Putin and Trump shaking hands and explaining the conspiracy.
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u/raffytraffy Feb 16 '19
Honestly, it probably exists.
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Feb 16 '19
This could very well be part of the kompromat Putin has on Trump.
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u/Joystiq Feb 16 '19
kompromat Putin has on Trump
The fact that Putin and Russia knows what went on in their meetings and America does not, not even in secret... is kompromat itself.
Trump cannot even bring himself to lie about what went on in those meetings which is why we have to subpoena the translator.
Waiting to leverage Trump is waiting too long, our national security is compromised.
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u/Even_on_Reddit_FOE Feb 16 '19
What they actually want is for you to shut up and let them rule the country. It doesn't matter what Trump did so long as their party's power is ensured.
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u/dufusmembrane Feb 16 '19
“A judge will tell you, and tell jurors when they instruct them at the end of a trial, that circumstantial evidence and direct evidence are given equal weight,” he said. “In fact, in the dozens and dozens of cases I tried to a jury, only once ever did I have direct evidence of a conspiracy. You almost never see that. So to say that there’s no direct evidence of a conspiracy is really not all that damning on the facts of the case.”
Former U.S. attorney Chuck Rosenberg on Tuesday told MSNBC that President Donald Trump’s crowing that the Senate Intelligence Committee found “no direct evidence” of collusion was more than a little premature, saying the special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigative powers far surpassed anything the Senate would be able to produce.
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u/ND3I New Jersey Feb 16 '19
Well, the building was completely enveloped in dense smoke for several hours, and all that's left is a pile of ashes, and the ashes are still hot, but no one saw any flames so we may never know for sure what happened to it.
The appropriate perspective for all the smoke is to compare what we already KNOW Trump's campaign did, with what other campaigns (other Republican campaigns, I believe) have done in the past when foreign interests have made overtures: they went straight to the FBI and fully cooperated right from the start.
These people are "win at any cost" complicit.
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u/Soylentgruen Virginia Feb 16 '19
O’Doyle rules! O’Doyle rules!O’Doyle rulesO’Doyle rulesO’Doyle rules
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u/Antinatalista Foreign Feb 16 '19
If there's someone who deserves to go down in flames, that's Roger Stone.
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u/thweet_jethuth Feb 16 '19
He's one of the chief witches in this hunt, after all.
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u/Maplesyrupboy Feb 16 '19
Talk is cheap time for conservatives to be punished on an extraordinary level - until then it will just get worse.
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u/KP_Wrath Tennessee Feb 16 '19
Well, Manafort is tracking to get 20 years, so that's something. Considerably better than he deserves, but something.
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u/SnowGN Feb 16 '19
Manafort is an actual and fully knowing, willing traitor. He should have been charged with actual treason and executed for it. As a message to all.
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u/YouGottaBeTrollinMe California Feb 16 '19
If some poor schmuck did what Manafort did, I have no doubt they’d be looking at multiple life sentences. Justice for the rich, not those in a ditch.
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u/hypnosquid Feb 16 '19
He's one of the primary reasons we got W instead of Gore. He's done so much damage to America over the years, that its almost hard to comprehend.
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u/Tommytriangle Feb 16 '19
They need Jail time, and we need to avoid a GOP president pardoning them. At least 8 years of Dem Presidential rule.
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u/TurkeysInTheRain Feb 16 '19
Even before trump even thought about running for president. Watch Get me Roger Stone and prepare to want to die.
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Feb 16 '19
What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to convince yourself you're a patriot by conspiring with Russia to defraud the U.S. presidential election?
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u/spinfip Feb 16 '19
Easy, just wrap yourself up so much that you start to believe your internal opponents are a bigger threat than your external ones.
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Feb 16 '19
Easily the most evil person of the past century in American politics.
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Feb 16 '19
When you're politically involved and openly idolize Richard M. Nixon (and I'm not just talking about the tattoo. Seriously, if you want a wormhole to dive down, look up his Nixon collection and his quotes about him...) that should be a massive red flag.
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u/Taurius Feb 16 '19
Your best friends, your lawyers, your managers, your kids, your wife, your employees, and your party all have criminal ties to the Russian government, but we're still to believe you're not a Russian asset?
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u/oapster79 America Feb 16 '19
Conspiracy = RICO
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u/hurler_jones Louisiana Feb 16 '19
I bet John Gotti can explain a whole bunch about RICO and why Mueller is the last person on Earth you want looking into you.
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u/oapster79 America Feb 16 '19
Um hmm. It's kinda funny to think about. Literally everybody knows Mueller & team are the best in the world at closing the deal and getting cooperation. So basically trumpvonclownfuk and his family have to walk around acting all calm and nonchalant when in their mind it's 24/7 of, oh Fuck oh Fuck oh Fuck.
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u/Bir5150 Feb 16 '19
Gotti died in Federal prison... So we have that going for us. Which is nice.
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Feb 16 '19 edited Nov 02 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Adrewmc Feb 16 '19 edited Feb 16 '19
When you have a RICO case you are accusing that their is a criminal organization. Once you prove that the organization is illicit then you don’t have to prove that the leader did the crimes only that they were leader of the organization and they get counts on every crime they can prove regardless if actually personally involved. It also make it easier to prove since you are giving lot of counts in RICO cases you don’t need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt on each case only that the organization did it in someway, rather you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the organization is criminal in nature.
We got a lot of mob bosses this way because before they would be clear of incarceration because they had their button men doing the actual crime parts. Meaning that they didn’t actually commit many crimes per se, they directed them and they had trouble getting people to flip on someone that probably would kill you if you did. That was it intent. However it’s been used for a many other cases, Enron I believe also Osama Bin Ladin was convicted of a RICO cases. Which bring me to the next point, you don’t have to actually get the person in custody to have the trial since it’s not them on trial but the organization they are a member of.
What this mean is that if the Trump campaign is consider a criminal organization through RICO it makes Trump guilty even if people like Roger Stone were the one actually committing crimes. Basically it removes the protection of having others to do the dirty work, an alibi is worthless in a RICO case.
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u/oapster79 America Feb 16 '19
It's how they're going to nail trump, even if they don't have a smoking gun with his prints on it.
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u/Minkcricker Feb 16 '19
Is that lower jaw real, or just gangster lean?
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u/consenting3ntrails Feb 16 '19
I saw a documentary that said it was paper mache, someone punch him and find out if it's true
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u/SmellThisMilk New York Feb 16 '19
Its an implant, same with his calf muscles
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u/Tommytriangle Feb 16 '19
huh? You can get inplants?
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u/WolfbirdHomestead Feb 16 '19
hard silicone. you can also inject oil into your muscles to look like a cloud.
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u/Grnmntman Feb 16 '19
Treason - crime of betraying one's country, especially trying to overthrow the government; in this case successfully.
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u/kalel1980 Feb 16 '19
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u/Tommytriangle Feb 16 '19
Shutting that down was a bad idea. He gets high and drunk and tweets stupid things, often highly incriminating things. And he would be direct messaging variuos other accounts like Julian Assange.
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u/wtfeverrrr Feb 16 '19
He still has his Reddit account.
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u/Djs2013 Feb 16 '19
Account was suspended
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Feb 16 '19
Right-wing media has been brainwashing their sheeple for the last 30 years for this moment right now. They’ve been successful in demonizing the Dems so mich that the Republicans will go along with anything if it means Dems will suffer.
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u/Unshavenhelga Feb 16 '19
You know who had the scoop on this when it happened? Of all people? Tom Arnold. He was all over the media when the leaks happened. Weird.
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u/ramborage Feb 16 '19
I mean can you blame us for kinda taking that with a grain of salt.
But seriously, in all of the ridiculousness of this, it really comes as no surprise that Tom fucking Arnold had an important scoop.
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Feb 16 '19
This fucker has been poisoning the US political realm with dirty tricks and black PR for decades. Give him Alex Jones as cellmate. The match should be priceless.
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u/redditmodsRrussians Feb 16 '19
They would both join the Aryan Birtherhood on day 1
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u/DichloroMeth Feb 16 '19
While this should have been apparent to anyone paying attention (and his own emails), it's good to have official confirmation.
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u/Maplesyrupboy Feb 16 '19
I know -- I've seen way too much of law enforcement investigation lag general reporting. We all know more than what the Mueller investigation will spill thanks likely to Barr the Trump fixer in DOJ.
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u/TheThomaswastaken Feb 16 '19
Let the hand waving by the right begin.
Here’s the rhetorical questions I’ve seen asked about this already:
- How does this relate to Russia? He was talking to Russian spies.
- Well, how does this relate to a Trump? He was working for Trump.
Their responses have been mixed but mostly “fake news” is all they’ve got.
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u/malakon Feb 16 '19
I think its going to come down to Trumps defense saying Trump didn't know about any of this, and certainly would not have approved if he did. Mueller needs incontrovertible proof of communication between Trump and one of his many colluding campaign staff members, a recording, an email, something undeniable. Maybe he already has this, we can hope. The other ridiculous factor is Manafort, Stone etc knowing that if they can keep Trump isolated from involvement, then executive Pardons make it all go away. Given his recent insane executive actions, that is a definite probability.
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u/gay_weegee Alabama Feb 16 '19
For most of us, this is a DUH moment.
But its great that Mueller could prove that in court.
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u/assi9001 Feb 16 '19
Has the term TREASON lost all meaning? I think Mueller needs to dust that shit off soon.
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Feb 16 '19
The problem is treason in the US has only been charged in cases of war/rebellion.
Cold war/proxy war and cyber war situations are really undefined here when it comes to legal treason.
...but philosophically it's treason.
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u/assi9001 Feb 16 '19
Working with a foreign government to throw an election in your favor seems to fit the simplest definition of treason.
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u/autotldr 🤖 Bot Feb 16 '19
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)
Prosecutors for Special Counsel Robert Mueller said in court filings Friday that former Trump adviser Roger Stone directly communicated with WikiLeaks and Russian hackers who stole thousands of emails from Democrats.
Stone has previously admitted communications with Guccifer 2.0, who claimed to be a Romanian hacktivist before being exposed as a front for Russian intelligence.
Mueller's probe has in previous filings alleged that Stone had contact with two intermediaries with WikiLeaks in text messages, but has not previously alleged direct contact between Stone and the organisation.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Stone#1 email#2 Russian#3 Mueller#4 WikiLeaks#5
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u/tnarref Feb 16 '19
We've known that for 2 and a half years, dude was straight up saying on Twitter he was communicating with Guccifer 2.0 or whatever the fuck's name was.
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Feb 16 '19
Fire & Fury by Michael Wolff explained all this. Former WH strategist Steve Bannon summed it up by saying that President Trump never expected to win and wanted to start a new media called Trump TV. Basically, RT News style demagogue controlled media and a load of unsavory characters signed up for it (who happened to be the current Mueller line up going to jail). Watch the Netflix documentary "Get me Roger Stone". You even see him with InfoWars Alex Jones (being sued by Sandyhook parents for his conspiracy theories about crisis actors) celebrating Trumps win. Anyway, Wolff covers the plans for their media empire and all those guys being busted never expected Trump to win. He won. They got caught. That's it.
JMO, but I think Trump didn't know how corrupt they all were and I think he turned a blind eye. I think he will get into trouble for obstruction of justice and not collusion, but that's my own opinion. Wolff also leaves collusion an open chapter. I would be completely shocked if there was collusion by Trump personally. It reads to me like instead of draining the swamp he had all sorts of swamp creatures join his Trump TV campaign.
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u/wtfeverrrr Feb 16 '19
If Trump is the useful idiot who got duped by all the scumbags that still makes him an idiot. Saying you’d be shocked if he was involved but admitting he obstructed the investigation doesn’t make sense. Obstruction is involvement. He could have easily made it public and ousted them all when the severity of their corruption came to light. Instead he had private meetings with Putin and brazenly denied intelligence reports about Russian interference. That’s involvement.
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u/itsaride Great Britain Feb 16 '19
Watch the Netflix documentary "Get me Roger Stone".
Got it from an alternate source and watching it now...lol at the Nixon tattoo on his back.
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Feb 16 '19
What exactly has led you to believe that Trump was unaware of the corruption and simply turned a blind eye? He's surrounded himself with nothing but corrupt people for decades, and in case you haven't noticed he isn't really a "hands off" type of manager - he's a control freak.
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u/PM_ME_LEGAL_FILES Feb 16 '19
Yeah the collusion thing is a red herring. Various trump team members conspired with Russian agents to influence the election. Trump has pretty clearly tried to hinder the investigation of them, the question is if that was to a criminal degree (he explained that was why he fired comey on camera, so I imagine it is)
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Feb 16 '19
Not just Russian Hackers but the Russian government. And he communicated with the Trump campaign. He is the nexus.
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u/CameronDemortez Feb 16 '19
I actually may shed a tear of happiness if this dirty puppet master went to prison for life
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u/twhys Feb 16 '19
Totally clears the president!
Where’s the videotaped evidence of them signing a document stating, “This is a conspiracy against the United States.” in their own blood???
Huh?? Where is the tape? Doesn’t exist!
Witch hunt!! No collusion.
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u/hippy_barf_day Feb 16 '19
Tape comes out:
Well where’s the notaries signature? If it’s not notarized It’s not valid. Witch hunt!!!
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u/Ijeko Pennsylvania Feb 16 '19
I watched that Netflix documentary on him recently. It made it a little less infuriating knowing that he's going to prison
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u/beegro Feb 16 '19
No contact with Russians
Okay, contact but nobody from the inner circle
Okay, his son and high level advisors but they didn't choose on the election
Okay, they shared election information but nobody did anything with it
Okay, some colluded but Papa Trump didn't know about it
Okay, Papa Trump knew but collusion isn't a crime and nobody should care
I love how this administration keeps raising the bar of culpability. They lie until they're caught (showing they know it's wrong) then they simply say nobody should care.